In late eighties/early nineties you were either a Unix person or god forbid a DOS person. Unix people were considered cool. My first job out of school had me working for a guy who was the first to port Unix in India. Fun times. The book "C programming language" by Ritchie is one of the finest books ever written. And I don't mean just as a technical book, across all categories. Not one single word feels unnecessary in that book. I have a book recommendation for Ajay - The Dream Machine by Waldrop. It's about J C R 'Lick' Licklider. The guy who bootstrapped the ARPA project. I think Ajay will enjoy it.
Fantastic podcast and a wonderful episode. You both make every topic worth pondering over. I have a request for Ajay - given his involvement in open-source, data analytics, etc. Would love to know his thoughts on improving data collection by government or private bodies in India. What would be an ideal setup. How can the data then be made public for people. This can help entrepreneurs identify opportunity, government provide more targeted welfare and also provide a more robust checks and balances to claims. There are many more topics that I would like to suggest and possibly contribute to as I look forward to more episodes.
I think Ajay has found a nice explosion-free movie/web-series idea in the Unix story. An underdog genius taking on the squares and sparking a revolution!
Thank you so much for bringing these every week, i stay at home most of the time to study and this has become my way of engaging in conversations and perspectives which are very different and i feel much more nuanced than what is available.Also the topics you choose for every week itself are so diverse that you can never guess what is up for the next week.Enlightening, precise, and engaging. Thank you
Indeed. I love how he lets his guests do most of the talking, while still being in control of the program. It's frustrating to hear other interviewers take more airtime than the interviewees!
Thanks all. I must point out that this show in not an interview show, but a conversation show, and Ajay and I are co-hosts. That said, there are some eps where he leads the way, and some eps where I lead, and the other's role becomes that of a facilitator in that case. This episode was very much led by Ajay, and it would have been suboptimal of me to speak any more than I did. Some eps are the opposite. I don't look at even The Seen and the Unseen as an 'interview' show. Those are also conversations in which I follow the path of my curiosities -- though my ethic of never interrupting does bring the best out of my guests, yes.
On an unrelated but related note, yet to come in terms with the regularity of India Uncut newsletter of late. Kind of freaked out that I am time traveling 🖖
Some general comments- 1. I notice that the episode lengths are getting longer like the "Seen and Unseen Podcast,"( not complaining, just noticing) 2. What is Ajay wearing on the wrist of his right hand( is that a कलावा)? 3. Can we have an episode on anti-trust laws? It can touch on historically significant and interesting anti-trust cases, everything from Rockefeller controlling almost all oil in America, JP Morgan controlling almost all railroads in America( which was when anti-trust laws first came into being), to the more recent ones like the US vs. AT&T in 1982, and the even more recent anti-trust cases in the US courts involving tech giants like Microsoft, Google, and Apple. Would like to know what Ajay thinks about anti-trust laws in general, are they good? Have they been effective? Are there other means of breaking monopolies and cartels without government intervention etc...
Noted. The latest Seen/Unseen episode, with Swapna Liddle, does cover Delhi in the years 1803 to 1857. A universe of insight! ruclips.net/video/q3f_sxbHLAU/видео.html
at one point patents by Bell lab were talked about briefly, if possible one episode on intellectual property rights especially on patents and copyright
informative and inspiring as always. Can listen to you 2 erudite gentlemen for hours. The screencast section at the end was nice bonus. I am willing to sign up and pay for any course/session by Ajay Shah - programming, computer science, economics, history, public policy anything actually
While there many who pretend to understand elegance, art and asethetics, there are only a handful for whom it is a second nature. Really loved this episode, but what happend to Occam and his razor? PS: Never expected Ajay Shah to be a debian person :)
Quite disheartening to see that Ajay is blindly pushing the emacs propaganda without even mentioning the other (far superior) editor. Would love to see a video on the editor war. Brilliantly researched. We need more of these.
One of the ideas that I found really interesting is the link between thinking, writing, and programming. As better and better versions of GPTs become available - most of the value generated by programmers will come from thinking and writing text(as prompts to AI and to communicate ideas) - not writing code. In his talk "Thinking above the code" Leslie Lamport echoes what Ajay says when Leslie claims: "If you are thinking without writing, you only think you are thinking." I also found it interesting that when the people at Bell Labs chose to open-source the code, they acted contrary to their incentives. It would have been much more lucrative to go the Microsoft way. Amit often talks about how it is the incentives in the system that drive behavior - not individuals. Is there a contradiction here?
There are different currencies that people maximise. Think of a Maslow hierarchy. Lots of silicon valley people have yachts. Only Ken has the love of an economist in India who talks about him for 90 minutes.
Unrelated to this particular video (Although it is one of the best yet), The fact that you guys are also Radiohead fans and I have found this channel tells me Nerds and Geeks really do converge. From different perspectives and backgrounds. I am certain that one day Nerds like us who value freedom, creativity and comradery will govern our countries. Until then perhaps there can be a way to build a community around this channel. It would be an honour for many of us to contribute and interact as a community. I'm sure it will be vibrant and thriving. PS: Radiohead covers by the Punch Brothers if you have not seen the videos on RUclips. Kid A specifically.
Holy f***!! Where were you people all this while!! This was just pure diamond of an episode! Can't express how thankful I am for this video! On another note, Steve Jobs, as you mentioned, chose the decade when Bell Labs exploded to be in! For me personally, those decades would be the time of around the 1905-1915, whereby Einstein shocked the world with his 5 papers, the debates around the nature of Space and time, and the commingling of all these into the General Theory of Relativity in 1915-16! Also, the debates around the Quantum world also starts from here with the Einstein-Bohr debates! Oh, I wish if I could've been there! Would love for Ajay to talk on this special decade or time too!
Good idea. I've actually proposed an format to Ajay called Time Machine, in which we pick points of time we'd go back to if we had a time machine, and why. I suspect Ajay would pick the Einstein years -- but first he has to be convinced to do this.
@@amitvarma That's a great idea Amit! I really wish if in one of the "Time Machine" episodes, you also go back to the decade of 1920's and 30's in India, specifically during the debates around untouchability and future of the Dalits in India, when Gandhi and Ambedkar (who even refused to call him a Mahatma) came to loggerheads and how all this commingled with the Poona pact in 1932. This would also be a really good episode! Also, tell us of what we should do to convince Ajay of doing that Einstein episode! 😁
Among all the 0s and 1s, here, I am 1(st).
I never thought I would hear an economist talk about 'awk'! I have been using the "command line" for 35 years and it is so amazing.
Ajay has inspired me to clean up my drives and folder structures
Super nerds, ASSEMBLE!
In late eighties/early nineties you were either a Unix person or god forbid a DOS person. Unix people were considered cool. My first job out of school had me working for a guy who was the first to port Unix in India. Fun times.
The book "C programming language" by Ritchie is one of the finest books ever written. And I don't mean just as a technical book, across all categories. Not one single word feels unnecessary in that book.
I have a book recommendation for Ajay - The Dream Machine by Waldrop. It's about J C R 'Lick' Licklider. The guy who bootstrapped the ARPA project. I think Ajay will enjoy it.
Waiting for Julia !
Fantastic podcast and a wonderful episode. You both make every topic worth pondering over. I have a request for Ajay - given his involvement in open-source, data analytics, etc. Would love to know his thoughts on improving data collection by government or private bodies in India. What would be an ideal setup. How can the data then be made public for people. This can help entrepreneurs identify opportunity, government provide more targeted welfare and also provide a more robust checks and balances to claims. There are many more topics that I would like to suggest and possibly contribute to as I look forward to more episodes.
I think Ajay has found a nice explosion-free movie/web-series idea in the Unix story. An underdog genius taking on the squares and sparking a revolution!
Thank you so much for bringing these every week, i stay at home most of the time to study and this has become my way of engaging in conversations and perspectives which are very different and i feel much more nuanced than what is available.Also the topics you choose for every week itself are so diverse that you can never guess what is up for the next week.Enlightening, precise, and engaging. Thank you
Just discovered this channel... Man your voice instantly grabbed my attention ... Subscribed.
The way Amit frames his questions is just so good. Thanks, Amit.
Indeed. I love how he lets his guests do most of the talking, while still being in control of the program. It's frustrating to hear other interviewers take more airtime than the interviewees!
True, I wanted Amit to share "Art of Questioning or Being Curious" besides Art of Clear Writing and Art of Podcasting
Thanks all. I must point out that this show in not an interview show, but a conversation show, and Ajay and I are co-hosts. That said, there are some eps where he leads the way, and some eps where I lead, and the other's role becomes that of a facilitator in that case. This episode was very much led by Ajay, and it would have been suboptimal of me to speak any more than I did. Some eps are the opposite.
I don't look at even The Seen and the Unseen as an 'interview' show. Those are also conversations in which I follow the path of my curiosities -- though my ethic of never interrupting does bring the best out of my guests, yes.
Vim is obviously better than emacs 🤣 Jokes apart, this is a really exciting episode.
Good to see love for the Debian distro in 2024 ❤.
Great episode. I love how Amit-Ajay are dedicated to the craft of making good videos that you're putting out videos of two people talking in 4K!
We try to make it as future-proof as we can!
Beautiful episode! Many thanks for doing it. Maybe another one on data analytics?
Just amazing. Hope this gets a high number of views
I watch your videos within hours of uploading it. 😅
Told, Shown and hence sold to Unix!
Wonderful. Thanks for making my day
"Unix is an extremely simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand its simplicity" -- Ritchie
Engineering pass out who works in advertising.
This made me miss engineering. Who knew that programming can be a great meditation on how to think.
On an unrelated but related note, yet to come in terms with the regularity of India Uncut newsletter of late.
Kind of freaked out that I am time traveling 🖖
Hey Prabhu, Regular but not everyday is a comforting development. Let us keep moving, but no chop-chop!
Some general comments-
1. I notice that the episode lengths are getting longer like the "Seen and Unseen Podcast,"( not complaining, just noticing)
2. What is Ajay wearing on the wrist of his right hand( is that a कलावा)?
3. Can we have an episode on anti-trust laws? It can touch on historically significant and interesting anti-trust cases, everything from Rockefeller controlling almost all oil in America, JP Morgan controlling almost all railroads in America( which was when anti-trust laws first came into being), to the more recent ones like the US vs. AT&T in 1982, and the even more recent anti-trust cases in the US courts involving tech giants like Microsoft, Google, and Apple. Would like to know what Ajay thinks about anti-trust laws in general, are they good? Have they been effective? Are there other means of breaking monopolies and cartels without government intervention etc...
One of the best episodes of EiE. Topic recommendation: 18 century India: How we started with Aurangzeb and ended with EIC
Noted. The latest Seen/Unseen episode, with Swapna Liddle, does cover Delhi in the years 1803 to 1857. A universe of insight!
ruclips.net/video/q3f_sxbHLAU/видео.html
Brilliant episode guys. Would love to have an episode on how stock market indexes are calculated. It would be nice if this is demystified.
The two of you have been larger modellers of desire for me to learn and improve than most of my teachers 🙏 (yes, I just read Wanting by Mr. Burgis)
CONTENT SUGGESTION can you make a video on invention of blue LED by Suji Nakamura
at one point patents by Bell lab were talked about briefly, if possible one episode on intellectual property rights especially on patents and copyright
informative and inspiring as always. Can listen to you 2 erudite gentlemen for hours. The screencast section at the end was nice bonus. I am willing to sign up and pay for any course/session by Ajay Shah - programming, computer science, economics, history, public policy anything actually
We will test you on this. We do plan to put together a comprehensive course with many of these subjects included.
@@amitvarmaplease launch such type of course... eagerly waiting
amazing episode. There is magic in this conversation
Amazing episode, Amit.
I’m not a tech person but enjoyed it thoroughly.
++++
While there many who pretend to understand elegance, art and asethetics, there are only a handful for whom it is a second nature. Really loved this episode, but what happend to Occam and his razor?
PS: Never expected Ajay Shah to be a debian person :)
Quite disheartening to see that Ajay is blindly pushing the emacs propaganda without even mentioning the other (far superior) editor. Would love to see a video on the editor war. Brilliantly researched. We need more of these.
Fingers know vi also!
47:26
Finally!!! Can't wait.
Awesome episode
One of the ideas that I found really interesting is the link between thinking, writing, and programming. As better and better versions of GPTs become available - most of the value generated by programmers will come from thinking and writing text(as prompts to AI and to communicate ideas) - not writing code.
In his talk "Thinking above the code" Leslie Lamport echoes what Ajay says when Leslie claims: "If you are thinking without writing, you only think you are thinking."
I also found it interesting that when the people at Bell Labs chose to open-source the code, they acted contrary to their incentives. It would have been much more lucrative to go the Microsoft way. Amit often talks about how it is the incentives in the system that drive behavior - not individuals. Is there a contradiction here?
Link to Leslie's talk - ruclips.net/video/-4Yp3j_jk8Q/видео.html
There are different currencies that people maximise. Think of a Maslow hierarchy. Lots of silicon valley people have yachts. Only Ken has the love of an economist in India who talks about him for 90 minutes.
We would love more about latex and linux if possible soon
Missed opportunity to name this - UNIX is everything
Dang, that would have been a good name!
Thank you very much. Not only is the episode interesting but also inspiring. ❤
Cant wait to see this
Would love an episode on EV esp in the context of upcoming Trump presidency
Bas kar pagle, rulaaega kya?
Poker Poker Poker Poker
+1 for Poker
Really nice episode❤
hahaha everything is everything has breached the 2hr mark lol
It's an outlier and will remain one. One hour will stay the sweet spot...
Chilla chilla ke sab ko scheme mat batao. Dont jinx this. I am aiming for this to go 5+ hours
Unrelated to this particular video (Although it is one of the best yet), The fact that you guys are also Radiohead fans and I have found this channel tells me Nerds and Geeks really do converge. From different perspectives and backgrounds. I am certain that one day Nerds like us who value freedom, creativity and comradery will govern our countries.
Until then perhaps there can be a way to build a community around this channel. It would be an honour for many of us to contribute and interact as a community. I'm sure it will be vibrant and thriving.
PS: Radiohead covers by the Punch Brothers if you have not seen the videos on RUclips. Kid A specifically.
Loved it
Great to hear the conversation.
A small suggestion,please try to include Dr. Jayaprakash Narayan in the conversation.
I would be great.🎉
The number 42 😂
Wow ..what a scenery in the backdrop.....is this the backyard of Ajay's house in karjat or a different location?
superb!
37:44 what is that buzzer? Aaaaaooow!
Holy f***!! Where were you people all this while!! This was just pure diamond of an episode! Can't express how thankful I am for this video!
On another note, Steve Jobs, as you mentioned, chose the decade when Bell Labs exploded to be in! For me personally, those decades would be the time of around the 1905-1915, whereby Einstein shocked the world with his 5 papers, the debates around the nature of Space and time, and the commingling of all these into the General Theory of Relativity in 1915-16! Also, the debates around the Quantum world also starts from here with the Einstein-Bohr debates! Oh, I wish if I could've been there!
Would love for Ajay to talk on this special decade or time too!
Good idea. I've actually proposed an format to Ajay called Time Machine, in which we pick points of time we'd go back to if we had a time machine, and why. I suspect Ajay would pick the Einstein years -- but first he has to be convinced to do this.
@@amitvarma That's a great idea Amit!
I really wish if in one of the "Time Machine" episodes, you also go back to the decade of 1920's and 30's in India, specifically during the debates around untouchability and future of the Dalits in India, when Gandhi and Ambedkar (who even refused to call him a Mahatma) came to loggerheads and how all this commingled with the Poona pact in 1932.
This would also be a really good episode!
Also, tell us of what we should do to convince Ajay of doing that Einstein episode!
😁
@@rushabhsagara8766 Hopefully he'll read your comment and get convinced!
@@amitvarma Hopefully!🤞
Just wow. Never thought that a economist/public policy person would give so great introduction & demo to unix
Everything is Everything.