Ken Thompson interviewed by Brian Kernighan at VCF East 2019
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- In the 1960s-1970s, Ken Thompson co-invented the UNIX operating system along with Dennis Ritchie at Bell Labs. He also worked on the language B, the operating system Plan 9, and the language Go. He and Ritchie won the Turing Award. He now works at Google. He’ll be interviewed by Brian Kernighan of “K&R” fame.
This talk took place May 4, 2019. Videography courtesy of @thegurumeditation (Facebook), @thegurumeditate (Twitter)
Vintage Computer Federation: vcfed.org
VCF Discord: / discord
0:00 Start of Video, Introductions and Updates
8:13 Start of Fireside Chat
11:02 How Ken got to Bell Labs
17:25 Origins of UNIX
22:40 Three weeks away from an OS
29:27 The PDP-11
32:48 Pipes
35:42 GREP
38:40 Languages and Evolution
46:25 Chess Computers
1:02:40 End of Chat 
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They could make an entire movie out of AT&T trying to hire Ken Thompson, and it would be called _Searching for Ken Thompson._
you could say greping for ken thompson lol
Allan Stokes 😂😂😂
wonders of the world wide web
You feel it’ll best the Steve Jobs Biopic?
I would like to have a movie about how Ken spent 3 weeks writing the UNIX in assembly, the McIlroy TMG's compiler and Dennis wrote the C compiler, and give it the title The Bell's Angels.
"Am I wasting too much time." Are you kidding? This is like the sermon on the mount. Take all the time you would like.
yes take all my time ken pls
may be.. think it about a thread.. his thread is taking a bit long.. he wants to optimize..
These guys are legends. And so humble. Talk about an influencer. This is an influencer!
He was brilliant, but to himself I think he thought he was kind of "dumb or average". Little did he know at the time; though, He co-created a language that would stand the test of time and be used as a base language for a lot of things in CS.
@@Gravy1255 He is a man of integrity and what he thought about himself is honest. He isn't dumb but average which is not to discredit him, but the popularity of what he did is explained simply by the fact that there are many dumb and average poeople around. And those dumb and average people can comprehend what he did and simply ignored other much more brighter people in the field.
@@knyazhefilms2154 He isn't average. Lol.
@@knyazhefilms2154 If he's average what are we?
@@simiuciacia we are cockroaches
The faces of people that started time.
Unix timestamp that is.
Nice comment
Good one.
In seconds from Jan 1, 1970
Did you forget Multics?
Ken: One Week; One Week; One Week; and we had Unix..
Brian: I think programmers are not much productive these days..
Such gods speaking before mere mortals. Legendary.
And Ken said, Let there be UNIX: and on the third week there was UNIX. And Ken saw the UNIX, that it was good.
He just casually invented a game with LAN multiplayer on a machine for printing boards
Necessity is a mother of invention
@@nieczerwony laziness is the mother of invention.
@@ciba2nd622 & @nieczerwony
Isn't Necessity how Lazy people call Inventions?
I am a native Greek speaker. The first line on his T-shirt says: "I finally understood it!"
Wow! Thanks for sharing!
I was hoping someone would explain it. Thanks.
Hmmm..
Is this modern Greek?
Or the traditional? - Ἐν οἴνῳ ἀλήθεια which I have succumbed to tonight....
Thank you! I was wondering 😂
what does the code translate to underneath it?
This is the most interesting 1 hour on RUclips I've had in years. Ken Thomposon is a fantastic storyteller!
Agreed, this is the best hour I've spent on RUclips for a while. On a site note, in case you're interested, the RUclips channel "Computerphile" regularly features videos with Brian Kernighan. Unfortunately Ken has yet to make an appearance but Brian has a dozen videos or so.
Cannot agree more!
Ok iron side😂
I didn’t know when I spent over 1hr watching and enjoying the tales of how UNIX which eventually gave birth to the likes of LINUX came about.
I was glad that I could still comprehend some of the technical topics he glazed over, since I left university.
No doubt! I wish they would have had like a follow-up session with more stories. Or that they would have extended the session.
Step one: turn projector off
Step two: shut down the notebook
Step three: take out paper notes
Sounds like an Algorithm...
"We don't need that" about personal computer. inb4 mainframe masterrace.
MarquisDeSang These guys wouldn’t be proponents of mainframes, but mini computers.
Lol I am 26 but I still do a lot on paper. I guess its just a nice esthetic, but there are some pros to organizing things on paper. And I'm a programmer, so I definetly know how to organize large file collections on a PC.
Yes... Exactly what UNIX was meant to be: lean, mean, efficient and functional.
It's like the joke about NASA spending $14million to develop a pen that works in zero-g while the Soviets just used pencils.
They should've let him talk all day. Amazing guys.
I agree! If it was up to me, I would have him talk as long as he wanted!
"And at some point, I realize without knowing it up until that point that I was three weeks from an operating system with 3 programs : one a week. An editor, I needed an editor to write code. I need an assembler to turn the code into language I could run. And I needed a little kernel kind of overlay call it an operating system. And luckily right at that moment my wife went on a three-week vacation" Ken Thompson
I would stamp a T-Shirt with this paragraph anytime !!!
Absolute madlad
we should make a monument of the wife xD
"i was 3 weeks away from creating a new OS", I have been learning how to open files for a year.
Alejandro Rodriguez true story haha. Computers are difficult.
In early eighties it was easier (for me in Russia) because there was no so many choices: for example if I wanted to make a fast game I had to use BIOS interrupts, so I had to find a documentation. Actually I couldn't, so I had to find people who know something about it. And I could find, I would learn from them, so finally I made fast games and other programs (sort of Midnight Commander and Fast Text Editor etc.).
@@AlexanderTeterkin It was easier because people weren't spending time on pointless crap and methodologies but instead solved the real problems.
@@AlexanderTeterkin Do you have a list of cool tech inventions you’ve built over the years?
@@1anre Sorry, I do not have such a list.
Man, its full of goosebumps ... to get to know about how things were born! I mean, the real things like Unix, C, grep, pipes, etc... Very inspiring to see legends sharing the same stage! Missing Dennis Ritchie though!
Missing Dennis.
One thing I really love about computer science is that it exploded so recently, we have core founders who's work has touched every part of the modern industry, acting as foundation for much of it, but they're still here and still working.
Yes, they literally laid foundations to modern computer science
"One week, one week, one week and we had Unix." Damn, I need to speed up work on my software project! :D
The secret is to start "confined", almost the the point of uselessness.
_ALMOST_ to the point of uselessness ;)
Don't forget his previous experiences on OS disgn.
the man was pumping assembly code faster than I write java script.
In one week, I barely manage to sketch a partial solution, after having spent 30 hours in useless meetings, where we’ve decided about what and how to decide…
In a year, if I ignore the copy/paste/modify, I barely write 1k lines of code, after consulting Google, of course 😂
I love how they got Brian Kernighan to interview him, everything was a perfect set up for Ken to knock out of the park, great interview!
Yes. It helped Ken to agree to the talk by having his old friend Brian interview him. Some speakers don't like monologues they prefer "the interview style" of speaking.
Not much "they" behind it. I alone arranged for Brian and Ken to do this.
"I was a pretty good programmer"
"i was never good at math"
@@syahrulrozi8233 test
.DT.FTC.V_
More like "I just do stuff" 😁
I love how casually Ken Thompson just says he created an editor, an assembler & a kernel in under 3weeks for the UNIX operating system while his wife & child were away on holiday & @ 37:10, he hacked away and created the GREP program overnight, to present it to his boss the next day at work since he needed such a robust SEARCH tool, as if it’s not one of the most well known and most used command line tools even till date in 2021.
That amount of humility and candor shown here by him, is astonishing.
Meanwhile tiny RUclipsrs that’ve just gotten into Google & Amazon and worked there as SWEs for a few years, will now come on here and be making it seem like they just dropped down from heaven and are above and beyond everyone else in the Tech Space.
"he hacked away and created the GREP program overnight"
No, he didn't. He literally said he just fixed bugs for an hour or so because the boss asked him for a program that already existed on his harddrive. So he pretended like he wrote it in one night.
And to be fair writing a line editor in one week is absolutely doable if you're a good programmer.
Still, an absolute genius. I mean he basically invented regular expressions as we know them today.
Yes. Ken did some amazing things!
He is definitely is a genius who accomplished so much in this area!
7:55 Getting started
11:00 Bell Labs: In Pursuit of Ken Thompson
17:11 Multics OS
21:13 Invention of Unix
23:40 "Funding Unix", Dennis Ritchie kicks in
29:27 The PDP-11
30:30 Pipes
35:07 Grep command
38:35 Language B
52:53 Moscow Trip Story
Not all heros wear capes
Thanks! Replying to boost this comment higher.
Thank you.
Isn't it Brian Kernighan?
Does anyone else see the irony of the OS most associated with open source was developed to process patents? 😂
Future nerds are gonna be sooo jealous we saw him while he was still a living legend!
Just a regular Joe that happened to do great things. Thrilled that he still loves to tell the stories. I get the feeling he's still slightly perplexed why we put him on such a pedestal for just doing what he can't help doing 😊
This sit-down is _solid gold_ ✨
So glad that you liked this talk!
I remember at 19 seeing pipes and thinking it was brilliant. Probably used them almost weekly in the last 30 years, searching and reformatting output.
Yes. A great invention!
as someone who's made their living with Unix since 1989 and taught Unix at NYU for years .. LOVE THIS!
Isn’t it humbling to see these guys give it all out for free?
This video is a gem. I hope it never gets taken down or made private. It is something every developer should watch just so they know what it means to be a developer
Vintage Computer Federation intends to keep this up as long as we can.
Have you considered OnlyFans? I've always wondered what those mainframes would look like with only the fans.
I teach operating systems. My students have issues in closing their jaw when I reveal that some marketing person they worship did not know what program is. Yet they don't know who Dennis, Ken and Brian are. As a start , I subministered them this video. A healthy mixture of humbleness, competence and honesty. I hope this spirit will come back someday.
It is hard to replicated the spirit of what was done in the "vintage computer" days.
For being 77, Ken looks and sounds great. =)
Mr. Ken Thompson's t-shirt: "ΕΠΙΤΕΛΟΥΣ ΤΟ ΚΑΤΑΛΑΒΑ!", meaning, "Finally, I get it!" or "Finally, I understand it!", and with this beard he looks like Archimedes!
Usually, the computer geeks are people with no sense of humor, but in this case, this guy has a plenty of it!
Anyway, a true genius, humble and funny guy.
but can you explain the code below it 😂
These guys are rock stars of computer science and yet they are so humble. I would love to see more interviews with both of them
Graduated by accident.. 😂🤣
Besides UNIX itself, pipes are probably the greatest general invention that came out of the UNIX development. The whole talk is amazing.
We are so glad that you liked it!
These guys are so humble that they completely avoid being in the trap of success paradox.
First world privilege is the groupthink norm these days.. if you're alive you probably grew up in a relatively spoilt generation, I know I did.. parents gave us whatever we needed etc, no working in coal mines at age 8 for me
Hail and respect to our great masters and lords. They contributed over than 50 years of continuous and generous work for humanity: MULTICS, BCPL, UNIX, C, PLAN9, AWK, GO. How UNIX changed humanity can be compared to how Newton's classical mechanics changed the world or to how Alexander's Fleming Penicillin changed the history of biology and medical treatment.
Good comparison
Whatever happened to PLAN9 ? It was the buzz for a while in Murray Hill.
idk why but i just love these guys... they are so damn chill. especially Ken. its like his brain is pulling so much energy his body and emotions are lagging
@burntt999: He is the ultimate hippie nerd!
23:11 "And luckily right at that moment my wife went on a 3 weeks vacation to take my one year old (roughly) to visit my in-laws who were in California, this period long, 1 week, 1 week, 1 week... and we had Unix"
These guy truly a father of modern computer technology, in their own right command respect and perseverence, sadly Denis passed away, seeing these duo very satisfying.
Yes. It is wonderful to have these two together. It's too bad that Denis passed away before we could record them together.
Someone should make a movie out of this unix legend.
What would be a fitting title & who should play the roles of Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan & Dennis Ritchie ?
This wins at viewer comments for the month !
three gods of Computer Science Dennis,Ken and Brian
Ada Lovelace as well.
@@synen lol
It occurred to me watching this that there Ken seems to be cut from the same cloth as Steve Wozniak. Both men unambitious and seem to have a 'hippy' attitude, but extremely successful because they love what they do!
Seems almost paradoxical, but it's true :)
this is what internet is for... what legends you had here.. thanks for sharing
Such awesome legends!
Ken Thompson is by far the ultimate geek.
You should have said: The greatest geek that has ever stepped on earth.
@@karimmanaouil9354 erm Steve Wozniak?
@@1anre wozniak’s technical contribution to the computing world is almost nothing compared to these legends
@@gnupph I won’t undermine Wozniak’s contribution though.
These guys built some very good tech frameworks that we still use in servers and enterprise environment today but Wozniak was no slouch.
Thank you so very much for recording this interview in such high quality and for sharing it with us. I love hearing about Unix history and I have desperately been wanting to watch a proper interview with Ken Thompson. And to have this one given by his friend and colleague Brian Kernighan, in a comfortable setting surrounded by fellow geeks, was absolute magic. I could have listened to hours more. The story about Doug McIlroy made my jaw drop. Such fascinating gentlemen and such unparalleled intelligence. Really enjoyed it!
Are you a huge Linux proponent?
@@1anre Yes, Linux is great. I find the subject of operating systems really interesting. And hearing stories about Unix' origins directly from the guys who created it (like we have here in this video), now that's just fantastic!
Man agree to everything you told.. Unix is the best
Ken Thompson is a national treasure
A very special guy!
Ken seems to be full of stories and I love it. Hoping to hear more of them.
Living history. Men behind all our phones, tablets, all our moden Life. A true wizzard of the time. Hats off.
It is really inspiring to sit at the feet of these grand elders and be bathed in their experience. Its like being in a dream.
Ritchie, Thompson, Kernighan.... are the World's apex of computer programming.
Oral history interviews like this one are pure gold. Thanks for preserving history for us!
That is part of our mission to preserve the history of vintage computers. We are glad to record this for posterity.
I really wanted Dennis to live longer, so I could watch him somewhere like this. Alas, we rarely get what we want.
Damn. Didn’t know he’s passed.
What are your top inventions from him?
@@1anre Just one. c programming language, which serves as a foundation of various modern software to this day.
Thanks for sharing and posting this, loved it
This is gold! I wish they had made the interview when Dennis Ritchie was still alive. Thanks so much for uploading it.
True, although there are some decent videos on YT from the Bell Labs vault where Dennis Richie and Ken Thompson and others are talking about these things. Here's one example: ruclips.net/video/JoVQTPbD6UY/видео.html . But, yeah, a fireside chat like this with Dennis Richie would've been great :).
Beautiful! Thank you for uploading this video!
Thank you for putting this out. So good.
Thank you for recording this.
Great interview, thanks for arranging it, recording, and posting.
insane achievement. that level of productivity is only attained when you're attuned to the subject at a soul level.
It's rare genius like this that amazes us!
2024 was here to watch these jewels of humanity.
They are great indeed!
Wow, this is great! I'd never heard of this conference before but I have now!
Thanks for posting!
Great talk! Two of my favorite people.
Amazing! Loved every second.
So much love and respect for these men!
This interview is amazing! These guys are absolute legends in the computing world.
I could have listened to this interview for hours.
This is my favorite interview on RUclips so far.
I can listen to both of them like... forever.
Two legends. Thank you VCF for preserving this.
You are very welcome! We are glad that you enjoy it!
Thank you very much for the video. I am grateful for being able to listen to these guys.
I was amazing watching legends like them talk about their past. Thank you very much for sharing the video with us.
I could listen to Ken talk for hours
Very enjoyable video with historical significance. Thanks for sharing.
Fantastic storyteller and an absolute legend. Thanks. This was a great watch. Best wishes
Holy crap a Ken interview, I've been waiting so long
Me too!
What an amazing 1 hour spent in the company of one of the brightest minds of the Computer industry: Ken T. , the creator of the UNIX with his loooong-time collaborator, Brian K.
They have some fantastic stories. It was a privilege to have them come to our show. We are glad that you liked this video so much and your support for our organization. Please spread the word!
08:20 is when the interview start
Thank you frind
Thanks my friend
bless your heart
1:03:50 is where it sadly ends.
One of the best interview
Amazing to see and hear these legends together again.
I like every single moment of this interview - Ken Thompson is so inspiring!
i'm too obsessed with the history of unix, getting excited/frustrated when little things are skipped over. The name for grep comes from the ed commands, g/re/p (global / regular expression search / and print). So great relaxing to Ken Thompson and bwk talk about this history, could sit and listen for hours
So true! We could listen to him for hours!
Always a great storyteller. It's been decades since I've seen him, and Dennis, and Lorne...
Great memories!
I could listen to these men all week
Truly incredible. Thank you very much for uploading this video.
I could sit and listen for hours!
Yes. I agree!
I loved every minute of it
Wonderful people. Hope in my life, I will be able to contribute to the community as they did.
This is so good!! Thanks
Fantastic interview, those guys at Bell Labs are geniuses.
Thank you for this piece of history of computing. I'm so glad the foundations of what we use today were laid out by these brilliant minds striving for elegance and simplicity.
34:24: "You type one two + and it would say 'four'. [..] I was never good at math"
Honestly this is kinda nice to hear, you can be hugely successful and make gigantic contributions to computer science without being that good at math. I've felt for a long time, that logic is much more important in many CS areas.
You don't have to be good at math until you are trying to solve very specific problem benefiting you performance.
I think It was a joke. One does not simply program in Assembler.
He had a deep understanding of multivariable calculus and physics. When he says he’s not good, it’s more like, I’m not that good when compared to my math PhD peers.
Math is probably a "requirement" for CS more for its logic aspects. The only way Americans learn about traditional logic without a college course that focuses on it is during math class when you learn about things like the associative property and similar.
If A is B and B is C, then A is C. It's a virtual skill somewhat similar to spatial reasoning.
Now, it would be unfair to say some very advanced math isn't required, especially when it comes to 3d graphics and simulations. Anything that attempts to mimick reality or break through it.
This men did electrical engineering so don't think he was never good at math. 😅
Wow I could listen to their stories for ever! Such interesting stuff happened that we've never heard about haha.
This was fantastic, and brought back a lot of memories from the 1970s. Thanks so much for posting this.
You are very welcome. This is our most popular video. Very rare opportunity to hear his story.
Amazing...I could listen to Ken's stories all day long!
He had a lot of entertaining stories about all sorts of topics!
Thank you, LW! This is phenomenal! ☺🐯
LW?
@@vcfederation Thoughtfully forwarded to me (J.Skye Smith) by Lauren Weinstein. 🐯
No word, just good to see these two legends stay healthy
Yes. We were glad that they were able to come and talk about their time working on UNIX.
Wow, this is one of the greatest computer science related videos I have seen. I started with UNIX late 1980s or something. And worshipped the simple ideas behind it, and thought, these people were smart, they knew what to leave out. Amazing seeing some of my idols in a video! I should see if there's a video soley focused on the Belle chess system. Partly developed by Ken Thompson.
Thanks for sharing!
The greatest people are the humbler ones
Three years later and it still holds up!
Absolutely!
Thank you for sharing! I really enjoyed it 💕💕
I'm so glad that you enjoyed it!
what an amazing story. dennis, ken and brian are real legends
And Doug McIlroy !
LOVE the story of “Belle” the chess playing computer.
That's a great story!
Sat in Ken's office at Google one Sunday when I started at Apple under Jobs. It was a fun visit. Been doing Unix since v6 and receiving Ken's tapes at Stanford Research Institute for my machines plus all the chess tests we did on the phone for Belle. Also got a nice kudo from dmr regarding a C program I wrote. A fond memory. The above interview is worthy. Also chatted with Brian about his recent book on Golang.... never chatted with Doug M. Pipes are my favorite feature to this day. I was lucky because I had access to all the OS and apps source code of v6. Spent a lot of time pouring through that code. Cool interview VCF!!!
Rather a lot of name-dropping, but good for you, and I'm glad you were able to work with these folks
Considering how hugely influential they've been, it is amazing to see how down to earth and humble they are.
Their focus is on the right thing and they are motivated by the right goals. Just the love of this tech and what it can accomplish.
You can't succeed in software if you decide to be proud
So true!
We agree!
Yes. Ego gets in the way.
This was a "magical" moment with living legends in the history of computing.
Absolutely!
How sad this interview only goes for 1 hour ... I could listen to Ken and Brian talking for days. Great work putting this event together, Great job and thank you !!
We need more Ken Thompson
Wonderful stuff!
It's a pity that Dennis Ritchie has passed away but it's awesome to see everyone else here!
Yes. We would have loved them all to be together at the same time.