I like the fact that you give honest reviews for hardware you receive for free. I also applaud that you gave the manufacturer solid input on what they need to improve. Keep up the good work!
.I think you were being very generous. If the average guy buys one and runs into any of the problems you di, then the reputation of the product goes down the drain, Everyone of your suggestions should be adopted. I think you forgot about the two formats that didn't work. Fro me that would be a deal breaker. Thanks for the video.
I think most people who buy chinese stuff understands, that they are cheaper exactly because you are not paying for all the branding and handholding. They are not meant for the average western consumer type. And in my opinion, that's good. As the average western consumer needs to die, people need to recognize use value instead of signal value. And that's what china stuff offers. There is always some western reseller who charges you twice for this and offers the hand holding and branding experience in a fancy box.
@@Nobody-Nowhere A product that actually works out of the box is more profitable. The best customer service is none, the product just works. That's cheaper than shoddy workmanship in the long term.
@@Nobody-Nowhere the also often incorporate poor software with many bugs. Don’t support all the claimed features, often don’t meet the specs and can be poorly assembled. Another problem as far as handholding goes, well what do we mean by that? If there is something wrong in one way or the other, you NEED the handholding. Generally, you can’t fix the problem yourself. Sometimes the problem isn’t fixable, because it’s in the design and manufacturing. Sometimes the “fix” is a kludge and doesn’t last, or really fix the problem. Look, when buying an unknown brand from China, India, or some other places, you are taking a risk. Some of us find the risk may be acceptable, because we have a good deal of experience, but many others can’t, and shouldn’t be buying these products. Just because someone wants to do something doesn’t mean they should.
I have the Mr Carve M1 and a Omtech 100w MOPA Fiber, I backed the Mr Carve on Kickstarter. To be clear, the AtomStack isn't a fiber laser. It is a 2w 1064nm diode attached to a galvo head. The Mr Carve shipped with SeaCAD as well. Just like using EZCad you need to apply your hatches. Instead of hitting enter, just click "Application". You have to do that with each hatch, as you can have several hatches for one Pen. If you hit enter, you are only applying that setting to the first hatch. There is a steep learning curve when it comes to using SeaCAD and EZCad, they are very similar in operation. Mr Carve was first out of the gate with a 1064 Galvo, this looks very similar to Mr Carve M2 with a different shell. I would agree in your closing statement about, shipping and quality control. However, even though this isn't a fiber laser, it is using traditional fiber laser type software. I would suggest people be educated on the software before jumping into the 1064 Galvo and or Fiber lasers.
I think you were being very fair and reasonable... Most people would have given up and they're lucky to have a reviewer like you who doesn't back down from a challenge.
Been researching a laser for my Gunshop. I plan on doing custom marking and engraving. So finding good honest reviews for lasers with no nonsense is very welcome. Honest, up front and easy to understand. Great work, keep it up.
About the "red light": the product description mentions "1064 red light" which indeed is InfraRed light. It does not burn meat but you do feel it stinging on the skin (I've been told - I have not tried, or will try, this myself) but it will damage your eyes. Always make sure to wear laser safety goggles designed for 1064 nm wavelength especially when using this on brass, copper or silver - these materials are much more reflective than steel or aluminum.
Honestly, this is around the price I'd expect for this size work area. Fiber/galvo marking lasers tend to be pretty expensive. If you want double the engraving area, be prepared to spend 3 to 4 times the price *at least*. Hardware wise, I don't think you can currently beat this price, especially considering it actually seems to perform well. With that said, the lack of support for Lightburn and poor documentation makes the decision on getting this a hard "no." If this picks up support for Lightburn and if the customer service improves, this would probably be one of the best options on the market. One other thing I'm curious about is the longevity.
@@MasterThief117 I don’t know enough about the tech, definitely. But I have been looking into diode and CO2 lasers for craft work and from that perspective this is obviously a very different animal. I guess I just don’t see the business case of it, engraving a tiny area on a variety metals. How does it pay for itself or even make you money doing that?
We can always count on a non biased thorough review from you.. For $1500 I would expect more. It has such a small work envelope and I don't want to have to diagnose it. You gave this a fair shot and were constructive in any criticism but the laser is a thumbs down. The video is a thumbs up! Thanks James.
When you started I was like: "Less than $ 1500 for a fiber laser - and you think this is gonna do anything ? 🤣". But I am surprised about the results you got. I have a large 30W fiber laser machine for which the laser source alone is over $ 1500. I am surprised with the out of the box quality of the engravings. You are right about the software and support. Lightburn is so much better than all those dedicated packages. Lightburn has no problem opening all the regular file formats.
I think this is a case where all the required hardware is here, and it's getting cheap enough to assemble into a product like this. There's real potential here if they can work through the system integration problems.
I operate a 30w fiber laser engraver at work, and it can mark any kind of metal at 500mm/second on full power. It is a Chinese machine and it was about 3500 euro. The Atomstack does not state (or I haven't found) the actual laser power, but an electrical power and a "peak optical pulse power" which is in my opinion deceitful. By the way, the 30w unit houses the laser module and control unit in a case that is as big or bigger than a mid tower pc. The galvo head / arm and baseplate are bigger than the whole Atomstack unit. And it also worked right out the box (meaning a big plywood crate it shipped in) :) The smoke MUST be vented or filtered because when marking metal the resulting smoke contains vaporized metal particles which are hazardous to breathe.
I have seen the figures 2W and 5W in various places in the marketing literature. I would believe either of those. There's probably some rationale by which you could argue that the 20KW peak power is a real thing, based on optical compression of the beam, overdriving the diode source momentarily, etc. but everyone knows it's silly and shouldn't be used to compare to anything else.
Since there's no guard seemingly needed when operating on a tabletop, the only contribution of the guard while using it vertically seems to be stable spacing. Get rid of it and use one that's just a framework so smoke won't be an issue. If you got smoke deposited on the inside of the guard, it's likely on the lens as well. Clean carefully! p.s. As someone who has cut acrylic and plexiglass with industrial lasers, I was unable to ever find an MSDS / SDS that addressed the hazards of cutting it. They'll tell you all about the hazards of using the product as intended, but when you DO stuff to it like melting or burning it, you're on your own. Does a dust mask suffice? Do you need organic vapor filtering? Inquiring minds that may or may not have been repeatedly exposed to carcinogens want to know!
And an simple mechanism to fix the guard on the laser. For laser software , chinese should build an good app for all them clones and give it freeware even closed source instead of botching all them software. I know nothing about lasers but simple solutions are obvious.
James I think your review is fair to the manufacturer. Many folks would've given up. Your recommendations are valid, and I would expect better from them even for a $1500 laser. Let's face it. There's huge market potential, given the amount of hobbyists like us. Putting their best foot forward with a product would be recommended. As usual, good work. Gilles
A good and fair honest review, far too often I’ve seen people review products and gloss over the negatives simply because they feel some type of obligation to do so for receiving the product for free.
I've been looking for something like this to engrave USB drives and maybe some laptop lids for customers, but I'm glad I watched this video to know what to avoid. The comments are also surprisingly informative.
Agree with your comment about supporting lightburn. LightBurn supports Linux, Mac, as well as Windoz while the software included with this laser only supports Windoz. You made 3 really good recommendations to the manuf. Keep up the GREAT work
Thank you! I am in the market for a fiber laser for marking many of the alloys you mentioned. My issue is space...I need something small and compact, which is what drew me to this video. Right now I just have a difficult time swallowing the obvious shoddy workmanship on I see on many of these type/size lasers...particularly for the cost.
A few things to try out. As someone else mentioned this looks like a re-skinned version of ezcad. There are videos out there on using it. For illustrator files, save them as a version 3 file. None of the other versions have worked for me. The frequency is important on a fibre laser. It will affect marking vs deep engraving. Fibre lasers don’t do well on organics and most plastics. The Laser Everything YT channel has some ok videos on using fibre lasers and settings.
1. EYE SAFETY!!! - the hazard isn't that it will burn your skin, the hazard is the the probable wavelength with cause instant blind spots if it gets a clean shot into your eye. 2. For between 2x and 3.5x the money, you can get a galvolaser that works as well or better, comes with some glasses that seem to be OK, and a version of ezcad that works. I got one from bescutter (zero affiliation just a customer about 2.5 years ago.) That is of course rather more money, but it's not 10x more. These devices are making progress, but it's clearly not yet mature (for direct metal marking.)
Thanks James. I have no experience with Laser Engravers. Having said that, I think your final assessment sounds fair & reasonable. Yes I am like you, I pretty much pull apart anything I own to see how it works, & numerous times I have got badly assembled/marketed items to work. I have provided similar sort of feedback to suppliers to say "this product has good potential, but you need to change some things to vastly improve a customers experience".
Not to hard ... Honesty is never to hard when people know you for honesty.... $1500 is a lot of money to most home machinist's..... Thanks for Sharing ... Stay safe and well .....
I will suggest that you don’t want to breathe in the ablated metals and whatever. On the aluminum, blowing off the detritus might help to mitigate it occluding the LASER as it etches along. Thanks for taking the time to create this.
I recently got one of these at work. After also managing to visit their office in Shenzhen. I brought up Lightburn driver and they claimed it's in the works and may be released in April this year. We'll see. As for the missing "Apply" button you mention at 9:00. I think I've found that the "Application" button is the apply button, just a slight mistranslation it seems. My additional tip on the Fill settings is to enable the "Cross fill" option. It'll do a second pass, clocked 90 from the first pass to really thoroughly do the fill marking. I also visited LaserPecker, and while their machine has easier software and two lasers so that is has one for wood and paper, its IR laser is much much less powerful than Atomstack's and thus far slower for marking metal.
I think for most people marking arm bracelets, whisky bottle labels, and house plate numbers would be the most practical use for this product.....anything requiring more marking would probably give poor results.....so might be good bang for the buck if you like messing with software that isn't really user friendly.
Fiber lasers on metal in a single pass , are basically only surface engraving , but as you have shown very clearly , each metal is different However , if you use a spacing in region of 0.02 , and use hatch one at 0 degrees and hatch 2 at 90 degrees Then on the right hand side set the speed to around 800 , power 80% ( i never use 100% ) and say 50 passes. That setting in something like copper should give you depth as well as a nice clean cut. I would be interseted to see the result , and i would suspect others would to Great review
Thanks for the review, it was excellent. Personally, this level of lack of support and lack of documentation is what I'd expect from a sub-$300 product. If I'm spending $1500 on something, I expect better. To me, this alone would be a deal breaker, before we get into the manufacturing issues and software quality issues.
I do gunsmithing (precision long range rifle barrels mostly) and need a way to mark the barrels with some text. They are 416R stainless. I am searching for something in this price range that will do the job... I know there are 5-6k lasers that will make short work of it, so I'm excited for this mini-series you have .
Fiber lasers are pretty great. We use a 30w noname unit to make equipment tags on bare stainless tags and for other marking. Folded up painted flashing can make a good optical shield to protect your eyes and some fume extraction is important, pretty sure these things are creating nano-sized particles of whatever you're blasting/etching/engraving. That software looks very similar to EZCad, steep learning curve on that one :D I think you need to use much older illustrator formats as it can't read the new ones.
While watching the video I had the same thoughts that were articulated at the end. The laser module and mirror seem to work great.... then there's the user experience and "extras" (handheld mode). adding a locking ring, some rubber grip feet and a way to have a positive air pressure (compressed air / fan) setup on that mount that blows smoke out the little corner openings at the bottom would make it work much better. Another option that would be nice would be a mounting system for a Cartesian robot to use fiber laser on large surfaces. The software would have to lock in a 70x70 working area, finish that, move over another 70, then do part 2, etc. embroidery machines have a manual way of this, but with a CNC controlled XY system, it could be automated and even customized on size... as long as the software supported it. The guys over at Lightburn are great and if there was a market for it, they might add that system in (if it was worth it)... or it could still be done manually with little effort programming a control board on your motor system.
looking at the insides when you opened it up, i think one could easily change the galvo board for an uno with a CNC shield and run GRBL for lasers, and unlock its usefulness with software such as lightburn, Perhaps. If this product was only a few hundred dollars, it would be a no-brainer, but for a little over a grand... IDK Nonetheless, thanks for the little review which helps us all make a better-informed decision.
Given how poorly the lens system was mounted, I have to assume the grid of alignment stud holes in the base are kind of a joke. What are the odds they'll ever be square to the raster?
Very fair review. It seems like they have several areas that need attention and improvement. Although the product does etch material it lacks the R&D to make it successful. I think you provided extremely valuable feedback to this company. It will be interesting to see if they use any of the data that you provided them.
Oh, and that page where you had to hit "enter" after changing things, try "tab" to change to the next item then hit "enter" when you are all done. I have found that quirk in some software.
I’ve been considering a fiber laser myself. I’m like you in that I have pretty much the same experience levels. But, early next month I’ll be 73. At this point in my life, I’d finally like something to just work. I recently finished redoing my mill, replacing the motor with an inverter rated unit. Working to the same standards as my industrial designs over the years was a lot of work. Buying a laser should be simpler. I neither want to be rewriting the software or redesigning the hardware as I would have done a few years ago. Good models are several thousand, but they meet their specs and work properly. If you should have a problem, help is there. It’s a tough decision, particularly as one moves up the power level. My interest is at the 6o to 80 watt level, and these are too expensive, even in the cheap off brand cases to fool around with.
Gday, I don’t think your being to hard, your just saying the truth really, for the hobbyists the price is up there and you want it to work straight out of the box, this don’t, the end results it gives look great though, as you said it has a lot of potential, they just need to refine it a bit, thanks for sharing, cheers
Hey James. Amazing that it can do what it does, but it takes way too much fiddling around to get it to work right. I agree with your assessment and would not buy it as is, at least until they improve the user's experience. Ciao, Marco.
Good video James. I think the video is just right. You gave us your experience and gave the product more than a fair shake with some troubleshooting. Not sure what the expectation of the company was. But you gave us your experience, not much more to ask for.
Great review. I'm going to have my own thoughts soon too. There should be one on the way for me to review in the next week or so. This gives me a good jumping off point to see what I should try practically.
I would suspect that the software is either pirated or repurposed. In this day and age, I don't think it's asking too much to have tooltips that are written for a country specific market. Same with help files. As you say, just ship the product with decent drivers that can be used by well written software like Lightburn.
It's incredibly ambitious to try and build a fiber laser in a package that small at that price point. It looks like Atomstack have missed the mark in many ways with this product, but I'd be very interested to see what the market looks like in 18 months. These random Chinese brands tend to do a pretty good job of working out the worst problems through an iterative process of reverse engineering and incorporating community fixes. A fiber laser is a niche item, but it's absolutely indispensable within that niche. Engraving is the obvious application, but there are some seriously neat micromachining tricks if you don't mind long cycle times.
I think your review was spot on in terms of approach and conclusions. This review wouldn’t put me off the product but at least I know what extra I might need to do to have success with it. I am all about managing people’s expectations, everyone is happier at the end of the day! I don’t think I would do well in marketing. 😁 thanks
4:44 omg the build quality of the electronics in that thing looks like a one off college student project, nothing is close to square (though it probably just makes IPC standards) the two boards on the top right look like they are bent since they are bolted together at 2 crooked angles. Back to the middle board, why are we using headers on one side but solder blobs with wires obviously too thick on the other... and is that a freaking D-Sub cable in the top middle? Nothing wrong with that except it looks like they cut the end of a vga cable and called it a day
I have the Mr. Carve and it appears to have been manufactured with very SLIGHTLY better construction. It uses that same software. I get quickly frustrated by it. I've looked into Lightburn also but as you know, they don't support the BSL type galvo driver boards these things use. Lightburn has indicated that they will only add support after getting more requests for it.
I noticed a quick piece of info - the wavelength of the laser was listed as 1040 nm. That is a little shorter than what I have believed to be a standard 1060 nm for YIG lasers and mostly used in fiber transferred laser welding. I may be wrong about one or the other number, but no matter, it is infrared in any case.
I am buying a laser(primarily for cutting) at some point in the not too distant future and exposing the "you're on your own" reality of atomstack is certainly a help in letting me know who to avoid....
to import the vector file yes it works with illustrator but you need to open the file on illustrator then save it but when you save it chose illustrator 3 which is older illustrator file extension and that is what this application support, i know this because this application is taken from EZCad 2, plus please wear fiber laser safety glasses when you operate this type of laser because it reflects and can hit your eyes (safety first) and great video by the way and 50w JPT laser source machine will be what you need 👍🏽
@@Clough42 be careful. I got my JPT machine and they included a pair and believe it or not the glasses were regular tinted plastic, the best way to check put the glasses lense under the laser it should not pass ,
Great review. I find it totally frustrating that so many bits of kit are spoilt by poor software or no instructions. I thought you were being very fair.
@Clough42 - I was very interested in seeing the inside of this thing. Hopefully following your testing you could do a complete disassembly and inspection????
Nice review. I have been considering one of the fiber laser systems. The AtomStack price is compelling. Do you know the laser power? The frequency limits? I, like you I believe, am an EE - retired. I want an easy way to quickly make PCBs. I am sure the M4 will not cut copper, but the ability to remove solder mask opens doors. Applying SM and blowing it away to prepare for an etch process is an idea. Also the possibility of first applying toner, or powder coat paint and then fusing the material onto the platted G10 copper surface is another idea to prepare for etching. It would be interesting also to know if holes could be "drilled" in the epoxy,... If you have the time to explore these ideas, please do so. I suspect there are many people that would find this topic interesting. Thanks for the video as it is, it is helpful. Dan
What was the speed setting, and line density used for that PCB operation at 12:14??? Really nice removal of the soldermask! Any other relevant settings for the other materials would be awesome to document?
Hey, This looks like Ezcad2 with a new skin. try saving it as illustrator 8. I personally have the most success with importing the design in light burn and exporting it as a DXF (if you don't have light burn for galvo or if the board is not supported by light burn (might be the case here))
That's the exact same software my previous employer got with his many thousands of dollar professional fiber laser, complete with identical problems importing vector files. The only way we were ever able to import a vector file was to have the people we bought the laser from create the file for us.
I think you’re being very reasonable. And if it came to it, here in Australia the Dept of Fair Trading who administer the consumer protection laws would agree. In general, all products must work as advertised or risk losing in court and paying damages. Furthermore, regardless of the sales contract, the law gives buyers a warranty that the seller cannot contract out of. This product would not pass muster in my state , NSW, and without implementing changes similar to your recommendations is likely to get an importer in trouble here The Dept could require compensation to be paid to buyers, recall of the products for repair, replacement units sup0lied at no cost, or even complete withdrawal of the product from the market
If you are going to use this kind of tool regularly, far better to get a _real_ 20W fibre laser at around the same price. If you have a regular blue laser, just spray the metal surface with a rattle can and oblate it off. You can easily deeply etch the resultant mask with some salt water as the electrolyte on a q-tip and a small battery to supply the current - simple for small batches and takes very little time. Good video, and great to get some honest info. Lightburn is definitely the way to go for most of the Chinese lasers - pity the quality American brands like Universal don't pick up on it! /rant 😁
Thank you sir for this thorough review, Your way of explaining stuff is superb compared to others for real. And for the name thing, It's prbably a white label service they provide to let people resell their products under their own store without people being able to find it or match it to anyone else, So you can freely mark the price to any point you like without having any competition. Freeedom of pricing if you will
I have one of these and a 30w Chinese Galvo. This is decent (though the software stinks. Just like easy cad). For my 30w I changed the board and can use lightburn with it and am happy. On this the confidence factor of this is great. I use the 30w for things like serial numbers on firearms as I can get the depth necessary with only about 5 passes (speed and power change this). I use this one to mark simple aluminum business card tokens that I keep with parts and guns as property tags. This is nice when I put a bunch of parts in the ultra sound. I know it’s overkill but I don’t like paper tags. If lightburn supports this I’d be completely satisfied. Mine had no issues with the lens etc. this is not a production grade device, but is convenient. I say give them another year and it will be a lot better
I like the fact that you give honest reviews for hardware you receive for free. I also applaud that you gave the manufacturer solid input on what they need to improve. Keep up the good work!
You beat me to it. Many channels just do "best tool ever" reviews for free stuff.
James has done a few of these, and I'm curious if any of these companies actually heed his feedback.
Not sure why you think it was free. He received the Atomstack M4 for the review.
.I think you were being very generous. If the average guy buys one and runs into any of the problems you di, then the reputation of the product goes down the drain, Everyone of your suggestions should be adopted. I think you forgot about the two formats that didn't work. Fro me that would be a deal breaker. Thanks for the video.
I think most people who buy chinese stuff understands, that they are cheaper exactly because you are not paying for all the branding and handholding. They are not meant for the average western consumer type. And in my opinion, that's good. As the average western consumer needs to die, people need to recognize use value instead of signal value. And that's what china stuff offers.
There is always some western reseller who charges you twice for this and offers the hand holding and branding experience in a fancy box.
@@Nobody-Nowhere A product that actually works out of the box is more profitable. The best customer service is none, the product just works. That's cheaper than shoddy workmanship in the long term.
@@Nobody-Nowhere the also often incorporate poor software with many bugs. Don’t support all the claimed features, often don’t meet the specs and can be poorly assembled. Another problem as far as handholding goes, well what do we mean by that? If there is something wrong in one way or the other, you NEED the handholding. Generally, you can’t fix the problem yourself. Sometimes the problem isn’t fixable, because it’s in the design and manufacturing. Sometimes the “fix” is a kludge and doesn’t last, or really fix the problem.
Look, when buying an unknown brand from China, India, or some other places, you are taking a risk. Some of us find the risk may be acceptable, because we have a good deal of experience, but many others can’t, and shouldn’t be buying these products. Just because someone wants to do something doesn’t mean they should.
I have the Mr Carve M1 and a Omtech 100w MOPA Fiber, I backed the Mr Carve on Kickstarter. To be clear, the AtomStack isn't a fiber laser. It is a 2w 1064nm diode attached to a galvo head. The Mr Carve shipped with SeaCAD as well. Just like using EZCad you need to apply your hatches. Instead of hitting enter, just click "Application". You have to do that with each hatch, as you can have several hatches for one Pen. If you hit enter, you are only applying that setting to the first hatch. There is a steep learning curve when it comes to using SeaCAD and EZCad, they are very similar in operation. Mr Carve was first out of the gate with a 1064 Galvo, this looks very similar to Mr Carve M2 with a different shell. I would agree in your closing statement about, shipping and quality control. However, even though this isn't a fiber laser, it is using traditional fiber laser type software. I would suggest people be educated on the software before jumping into the 1064 Galvo and or Fiber lasers.
100% not a fiber laser as you point out. It's just a DPSS laser. It's cool for what it is, but should not be marketed as a fiber laser.
I think you were being very fair and reasonable... Most people would have given up and they're lucky to have a reviewer like you who doesn't back down from a challenge.
Been researching a laser for my Gunshop. I plan on doing custom marking and engraving. So finding good honest reviews for lasers with no nonsense is very welcome. Honest, up front and easy to understand. Great work, keep it up.
About the "red light": the product description mentions "1064 red light" which indeed is InfraRed light.
It does not burn meat but you do feel it stinging on the skin (I've been told - I have not tried, or will try, this myself) but it will damage your eyes. Always make sure to wear laser safety goggles designed for 1064 nm wavelength especially when using this on brass, copper or silver - these materials are much more reflective than steel or aluminum.
I love the critical-but-constructive review! Good stuff. Makes me want version 3 someday. ;)
The fact it does so well on metals is remarkable. But at that price for such a small engraving area and the other limitations, it is hard to justify.
Put it on cnc frame and move frame by frame.
@@artcraft2893 hahaha that’s hilarious!
Honestly, this is around the price I'd expect for this size work area. Fiber/galvo marking lasers tend to be pretty expensive. If you want double the engraving area, be prepared to spend 3 to 4 times the price *at least*.
Hardware wise, I don't think you can currently beat this price, especially considering it actually seems to perform well.
With that said, the lack of support for Lightburn and poor documentation makes the decision on getting this a hard "no."
If this picks up support for Lightburn and if the customer service improves, this would probably be one of the best options on the market.
One other thing I'm curious about is the longevity.
@@MasterThief117 I don’t know enough about the tech, definitely. But I have been looking into diode and CO2 lasers for craft work and from that perspective this is obviously a very different animal. I guess I just don’t see the business case of it, engraving a tiny area on a variety metals. How does it pay for itself or even make you money doing that?
@@NoTimeForThatNow I have 100W CO2 cutting plywood 3mm is slow.
We can always count on a non biased thorough review from you.. For $1500 I would expect more. It has such a small work envelope and I don't want to have to diagnose it. You gave this a fair shot and were constructive in any criticism but the laser is a thumbs down. The video is a thumbs up! Thanks James.
When you started I was like: "Less than $ 1500 for a fiber laser - and you think this is gonna do anything ? 🤣". But I am surprised about the results you got.
I have a large 30W fiber laser machine for which the laser source alone is over $ 1500. I am surprised with the out of the box quality of the engravings.
You are right about the software and support. Lightburn is so much better than all those dedicated packages. Lightburn has no problem opening all the regular file formats.
I think this is a case where all the required hardware is here, and it's getting cheap enough to assemble into a product like this. There's real potential here if they can work through the system integration problems.
I operate a 30w fiber laser engraver at work, and it can mark any kind of metal at 500mm/second on full power.
It is a Chinese machine and it was about 3500 euro. The Atomstack does not state (or I haven't found) the actual laser power, but an electrical power and a "peak optical pulse power" which is in my opinion deceitful. By the way, the 30w unit houses the laser module and control unit in a case that is as big or bigger than a mid tower pc. The galvo head / arm and baseplate are bigger than the whole Atomstack unit.
And it also worked right out the box (meaning a big plywood crate it shipped in) :)
The smoke MUST be vented or filtered because when marking metal the resulting smoke contains vaporized metal particles which are hazardous to breathe.
I have seen the figures 2W and 5W in various places in the marketing literature. I would believe either of those. There's probably some rationale by which you could argue that the 20KW peak power is a real thing, based on optical compression of the beam, overdriving the diode source momentarily, etc. but everyone knows it's silly and shouldn't be used to compare to anything else.
Kudos for the great feedback. I'm in no way related to any vendors but it's great hearing good quality pointed feedback as a part of a review.
Since there's no guard seemingly needed when operating on a tabletop, the only contribution of the guard while using it vertically seems to be stable spacing. Get rid of it and use one that's just a framework so smoke won't be an issue.
If you got smoke deposited on the inside of the guard, it's likely on the lens as well. Clean carefully!
p.s. As someone who has cut acrylic and plexiglass with industrial lasers, I was unable to ever find an MSDS / SDS that addressed the hazards of cutting it. They'll tell you all about the hazards of using the product as intended, but when you DO stuff to it like melting or burning it, you're on your own. Does a dust mask suffice? Do you need organic vapor filtering? Inquiring minds that may or may not have been repeatedly exposed to carcinogens want to know!
Or just put a hole with a fan on it. Simple hack.
And an simple mechanism to fix the guard on the laser.
For laser software , chinese should build an good app for all them clones and give it freeware even closed source instead of botching all them software.
I know nothing about lasers but simple solutions are obvious.
James I think your review is fair to the manufacturer. Many folks would've given up. Your recommendations are valid, and I would expect better from them even for a $1500 laser. Let's face it. There's huge market potential, given the amount of hobbyists like us. Putting their best foot forward with a product would be recommended. As usual, good work. Gilles
So glad I saw this! Found this exact Lazer for sale locally today for 400, apparently dude got frustrated & wanted it gone. I can see why now
Thanks for an honest review, makes the Laser Pecker 2 seem like a better buy.
A good and fair honest review, far too often I’ve seen people review products and gloss over the negatives simply because they feel some type of obligation to do so for receiving the product for free.
I've been looking for something like this to engrave USB drives and maybe some laptop lids for customers, but I'm glad I watched this video to know what to avoid. The comments are also surprisingly informative.
Agree with your comment about supporting lightburn. LightBurn supports Linux, Mac, as well as Windoz while the software included with this laser only supports Windoz. You made 3 really good recommendations to the manuf.
Keep up the GREAT work
Thank you! I am in the market for a fiber laser for marking many of the alloys you mentioned. My issue is space...I need something small and compact, which is what drew me to this video. Right now I just have a difficult time swallowing the obvious shoddy workmanship on I see on many of these type/size lasers...particularly for the cost.
I just love how calm you're while explaining that everything about I=this is horrible
A few things to try out. As someone else mentioned this looks like a re-skinned version of ezcad. There are videos out there on using it.
For illustrator files, save them as a version 3 file. None of the other versions have worked for me.
The frequency is important on a fibre laser. It will affect marking vs deep engraving.
Fibre lasers don’t do well on organics and most plastics.
The Laser Everything YT channel has some ok videos on using fibre lasers and settings.
1. EYE SAFETY!!! - the hazard isn't that it will burn your skin, the hazard is the the probable wavelength with cause instant blind spots if it gets a clean shot into your eye.
2. For between 2x and 3.5x the money, you can get a galvolaser that works as well or better, comes with some glasses that seem to be OK, and a version of ezcad that works. I got one from bescutter (zero affiliation just a customer about 2.5 years ago.) That is of course rather more money, but it's not 10x more.
These devices are making progress, but it's clearly not yet mature (for direct metal marking.)
Thanks James. I have no experience with Laser Engravers. Having said that, I think your final assessment sounds fair & reasonable.
Yes I am like you, I pretty much pull apart anything I own to see how it works, & numerous times I have got badly assembled/marketed items to work. I have provided similar sort of feedback to suppliers to say "this product has good potential, but you need to change some things to vastly improve a customers experience".
Not to hard ... Honesty is never to hard when people know you for honesty.... $1500 is a lot of money to most home machinist's..... Thanks for Sharing ... Stay safe and well .....
Thanks for the wide variety of materials tested.
I will suggest that you don’t want to breathe in the ablated metals and whatever.
On the aluminum, blowing off the detritus might help to mitigate it occluding the LASER as it etches along.
Thanks for taking the time to create this.
I recently got one of these at work. After also managing to visit their office in Shenzhen. I brought up Lightburn driver and they claimed it's in the works and may be released in April this year. We'll see. As for the missing "Apply" button you mention at 9:00. I think I've found that the "Application" button is the apply button, just a slight mistranslation it seems. My additional tip on the Fill settings is to enable the "Cross fill" option. It'll do a second pass, clocked 90 from the first pass to really thoroughly do the fill marking.
I also visited LaserPecker, and while their machine has easier software and two lasers so that is has one for wood and paper, its IR laser is much much less powerful than Atomstack's and thus far slower for marking metal.
Thank you for the honest review. I will wait :)
I think for most people marking arm bracelets, whisky bottle labels, and house plate numbers would be the most practical use for this product.....anything requiring more marking would probably give poor results.....so might be good bang for the buck if you like messing with software that isn't really user friendly.
Fiber lasers on metal in a single pass , are basically only surface engraving , but as you have shown very clearly , each metal is different
However , if you use a spacing in region of 0.02 , and use hatch one at 0 degrees and hatch 2 at 90 degrees
Then on the right hand side set the speed to around 800 , power 80% ( i never use 100% ) and say 50 passes.
That setting in something like copper should give you depth as well as a nice clean cut.
I would be interseted to see the result , and i would suspect others would to
Great review
To be fair, if the included software just had documentation that would probably solve the problem.
I love that you use metric. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the review, it was excellent.
Personally, this level of lack of support and lack of documentation is what I'd expect from a sub-$300 product. If I'm spending $1500 on something, I expect better. To me, this alone would be a deal breaker, before we get into the manufacturing issues and software quality issues.
I do gunsmithing (precision long range rifle barrels mostly) and need a way to mark the barrels with some text. They are 416R stainless. I am searching for something in this price range that will do the job... I know there are 5-6k lasers that will make short work of it, so I'm excited for this mini-series you have .
Love the honest review man. Thank you for sharing your opinions. Would love to see more videos from you
Fiber lasers are pretty great. We use a 30w noname unit to make equipment tags on bare stainless tags and for other marking. Folded up painted flashing can make a good optical shield to protect your eyes and some fume extraction is important, pretty sure these things are creating nano-sized particles of whatever you're blasting/etching/engraving. That software looks very similar to EZCad, steep learning curve on that one :D I think you need to use much older illustrator formats as it can't read the new ones.
Except this isn't actually a fiber laser.
While watching the video I had the same thoughts that were articulated at the end. The laser module and mirror seem to work great.... then there's the user experience and "extras" (handheld mode).
adding a locking ring, some rubber grip feet and a way to have a positive air pressure (compressed air / fan) setup on that mount that blows smoke out the little corner openings at the bottom would make it work much better.
Another option that would be nice would be a mounting system for a Cartesian robot to use fiber laser on large surfaces. The software would have to lock in a 70x70 working area, finish that, move over another 70, then do part 2, etc. embroidery machines have a manual way of this, but with a CNC controlled XY system, it could be automated and even customized on size... as long as the software supported it. The guys over at Lightburn are great and if there was a market for it, they might add that system in (if it was worth it)... or it could still be done manually with little effort programming a control board on your motor system.
I think your review is spot on. Thank you, this is of value to your viewers who are considering a laser for their shops.
Great review. I like the honesty and explanation of who this tool would help
Sitting here wishing you'd chosen a design with a gradient somewhere in the design. this was an honest review though so thanks!
9:20 you'd have to hit "application" (at the top of the object property window) to apply the changes to the object.
looking at the insides when you opened it up, i think one could easily change the galvo board for an uno with a CNC shield and run GRBL for lasers, and unlock its usefulness with software such as lightburn, Perhaps. If this product was only a few hundred dollars, it would be a no-brainer, but for a little over a grand... IDK Nonetheless, thanks for the little review which helps us all make a better-informed decision.
Great review James, you answered all my questions.
Really, if I'm spending that amount of coin, I expect it work out of the box. Great review...
Given how poorly the lens system was mounted, I have to assume the grid of alignment stud holes in the base are kind of a joke. What are the odds they'll ever be square to the raster?
Very fair review. It seems like they have several areas that need attention and improvement. Although the product does etch material it lacks the R&D to make it successful. I think you provided extremely valuable feedback to this company. It will be interesting to see if they use any of the data that you provided them.
Oh, and that page where you had to hit "enter" after changing things, try "tab" to change to the next item then hit "enter" when you are all done. I have found that quirk in some software.
I’ve been considering a fiber laser myself. I’m like you in that I have pretty much the same experience levels. But, early next month I’ll be 73. At this point in my life, I’d finally like something to just work. I recently finished redoing my mill, replacing the motor with an inverter rated unit. Working to the same standards as my industrial designs over the years was a lot of work. Buying a laser should be simpler. I neither want to be rewriting the software or redesigning the hardware as I would have done a few years ago. Good models are several thousand, but they meet their specs and work properly. If you should have a problem, help is there. It’s a tough decision, particularly as one moves up the power level. My interest is at the 6o to 80 watt level, and these are too expensive, even in the cheap off brand cases to fool around with.
I kind of liked your logo with the slip effect!!! 😃😃
Gday, I don’t think your being to hard, your just saying the truth really, for the hobbyists the price is up there and you want it to work straight out of the box, this don’t, the end results it gives look great though, as you said it has a lot of potential, they just need to refine it a bit, thanks for sharing, cheers
Hey James. Amazing that it can do what it does, but it takes way too much fiddling around to get it to work right. I agree with your assessment and would not buy it as is, at least until they improve the user's experience. Ciao, Marco.
Good video James.
I think the video is just right. You gave us your experience and gave the product more than a fair shake with some troubleshooting.
Not sure what the expectation of the company was. But you gave us your experience, not much more to ask for.
You can made jig for control move about use in vertical
Great review. I'm going to have my own thoughts soon too. There should be one on the way for me to review in the next week or so. This gives me a good jumping off point to see what I should try practically.
Excellent review, clear and honest, as always I enjoy your channel
I would suspect that the software is either pirated or repurposed. In this day and age, I don't think it's asking too much to have tooltips that are written for a country specific market. Same with help files. As you say, just ship the product with decent drivers that can be used by well written software like Lightburn.
Great honest review sir! Really appreciated.
My favorite laser safety sentence:
"Do not stare into laser with remaining eye."
It's incredibly ambitious to try and build a fiber laser in a package that small at that price point. It looks like Atomstack have missed the mark in many ways with this product, but I'd be very interested to see what the market looks like in 18 months. These random Chinese brands tend to do a pretty good job of working out the worst problems through an iterative process of reverse engineering and incorporating community fixes.
A fiber laser is a niche item, but it's absolutely indispensable within that niche. Engraving is the obvious application, but there are some seriously neat micromachining tricks if you don't mind long cycle times.
I think your review was spot on in terms of approach and conclusions. This review wouldn’t put me off the product but at least I know what extra I might need to do to have success with it. I am all about managing people’s expectations, everyone is happier at the end of the day! I don’t think I would do well in marketing. 😁 thanks
So it doesn’t support light burn‽ thanks for that precious info!
4:44 omg the build quality of the electronics in that thing looks like a one off college student project, nothing is close to square (though it probably just makes IPC standards) the two boards on the top right look like they are bent since they are bolted together at 2 crooked angles. Back to the middle board, why are we using headers on one side but solder blobs with wires obviously too thick on the other... and is that a freaking D-Sub cable in the top middle? Nothing wrong with that except it looks like they cut the end of a vga cable and called it a day
When it works it seems to do a great job! Shame about lack of support and quality control thou!
Two diode lasers used for focussing ... this is reminicewnt of "The Dam Busters" height indicating lights...
I have the Mr. Carve and it appears to have been manufactured with very SLIGHTLY better construction. It uses that same software. I get quickly frustrated by it. I've looked into Lightburn also but as you know, they don't support the BSL type galvo driver boards these things use. Lightburn has indicated that they will only add support after getting more requests for it.
I noticed a quick piece of info - the wavelength of the laser was listed as 1040 nm. That is a little shorter than what I have believed to be a standard 1060 nm for YIG lasers and mostly used in fiber transferred laser welding. I may be wrong about one or the other number, but no matter, it is infrared in any case.
Their marketing materials claim 1064nm. I have no way to measure or verify this.
Try lowering the frequency to the minimum! It will yield the max power. In EZ-CAD 20kHz (the minimum) gives the most "punch".
I am buying a laser(primarily for cutting) at some point in the not too distant future and exposing the "you're on your own" reality of atomstack is certainly a help in letting me know who to avoid....
This really isn't a cutting laser anyway. Depending what you want to cut, the blue diode lasers may not be suitable, either.
to import the vector file yes it works with illustrator but you need to open the file on illustrator then save it but when you save it chose illustrator 3 which is older illustrator file extension and that is what this application support, i know this because this application is taken from EZCad 2, plus please wear fiber laser safety glasses when you operate this type of laser because it reflects and can hit your eyes (safety first) and great video by the way and 50w JPT laser source machine will be what you need 👍🏽
No worries. They provide a pair of glasses, and I was wearing them.
@@Clough42 be careful. I got my JPT machine and they included a pair and believe it or not the glasses were regular tinted plastic, the best way to check put the glasses lense under the laser it should not pass ,
Great review. I find it totally frustrating that so many bits of kit are spoilt by poor software or no instructions. I thought you were being very fair.
The software is a copy of a software called SAMLight. You can check the manual there. I am pretty sure it's the same one.
@Clough42 - I was very interested in seeing the inside of this thing. Hopefully following your testing you could do a complete disassembly and inspection????
Nice review. I have been considering one of the fiber laser systems. The AtomStack price is compelling. Do you know the laser power? The frequency limits?
I, like you I believe, am an EE - retired. I want an easy way to quickly make PCBs.
I am sure the M4 will not cut copper, but the ability to remove solder mask opens doors.
Applying SM and blowing it away to prepare for an etch process is an idea.
Also the possibility of first applying toner, or powder coat paint and then fusing the material onto the platted G10 copper surface is another idea to prepare for etching.
It would be interesting also to know if holes could be "drilled" in the epoxy,...
If you have the time to explore these ideas, please do so. I suspect there are many people that would find this topic interesting. Thanks for the video as it is, it is helpful.
Dan
5:19 looks like a project to widen the slot right there [haven’t watched rest vid at time posting in case you do in this vid]
They also sell a fiber laser upgrade for their standard X/Y engravers.
plus many for LightBurn - it worth every penny you've spent on it.
What was the speed setting, and line density used for that PCB operation at 12:14??? Really nice removal of the soldermask! Any other relevant settings for the other materials would be awesome to document?
thanks for sharing! it was fun to watch.
I’m surprised you don’t make a mount to do the remote burning.
Hey, This looks like Ezcad2 with a new skin. try saving it as illustrator 8. I personally have the most success with importing the design in light burn and exporting it as a DXF (if you don't have light burn for galvo or if the board is not supported by light burn (might be the case here))
Oh, I didn't think of that. That's a good idea.
Let me know if you have any other questions I’ve dealt with easycad, light burn for galvo and CO2 over the past few years quite a bit
Hi, thank you for the review. does it work on brass?
That's the exact same software my previous employer got with his many thousands of dollar professional fiber laser, complete with identical problems importing vector files. The only way we were ever able to import a vector file was to have the people we bought the laser from create the file for us.
Well done review, James
Very fair review.. IIRC you being a software guy, I am surprised the user interface didn't drive you batsxxt crazy..
Very informative and very helpful, thank you.
I think your purple anodized ‘handle’ is actually a mtb or Bmx bike non-drive side crank arm.
I think you’re being very reasonable. And if it came to it, here in Australia the Dept of Fair Trading who administer the consumer protection laws would agree. In general, all products must work as advertised or risk losing in court and paying damages. Furthermore, regardless of the sales contract, the law gives buyers a warranty that the seller cannot contract out of. This product would not pass muster in my state , NSW, and without implementing changes similar to your recommendations is likely to get an importer in trouble here The Dept could require compensation to be paid to buyers, recall of the products for repair, replacement units sup0lied at no cost, or even complete withdrawal of the product from the market
Hi. Great video. What about ComMarker B4?
does it work on wood?
Can this work on silicone material ?
I’m anxiously anticipating Babble releasing a course of study in Chinglish, to aid me in the installation and assembly of various purchases…
If it can engrave copper, curious if it would be possible to etch circuit boards. Burn away the thin copper layer around traces.
Great review! Thanks!
If you are going to use this kind of tool regularly, far better to get a _real_ 20W fibre laser at around the same price. If you have a regular blue laser, just spray the metal surface with a rattle can and oblate it off. You can easily deeply etch the resultant mask with some salt water as the electrolyte on a q-tip and a small battery to supply the current - simple for small batches and takes very little time. Good video, and great to get some honest info. Lightburn is definitely the way to go for most of the Chinese lasers - pity the quality American brands like Universal don't pick up on it! /rant 😁
Я так понимаю в конце видео прозвучали слова НЕ РЕКОМЕНДУЮ , что посоветуете купить за эти деньги?
Any follow up?? Am looking to buy a laser engraver!
For that amount it would have to work just right out of the box and come with an easy to understand manual. But then I am a crabby old geezer.
Thats as cheap as fiber laser go... fiber laser are not cheap.
@@Nobody-Nowhere if it is hard to use the price needs to be cheaper, I still do not want it.
Thank you sir for this thorough review, Your way of explaining stuff is superb compared to others for real. And for the name thing, It's prbably a white label service they provide to let people resell their products under their own store without people being able to find it or match it to anyone else, So you can freely mark the price to any point you like without having any competition. Freeedom of pricing if you will
I have one of these and a 30w Chinese Galvo. This is decent (though the software stinks. Just like easy cad). For my 30w I changed the board and can use lightburn with it and am happy. On this the confidence factor of this is great. I use the 30w for things like serial numbers on firearms as I can get the depth necessary with only about 5 passes (speed and power change this). I use this one to mark simple aluminum business card tokens that I keep with parts and guns as property tags. This is nice when I put a bunch of parts in the ultra sound. I know it’s overkill but I don’t like paper tags. If lightburn supports this I’d be completely satisfied. Mine had no issues with the lens etc. this is not a production grade device, but is convenient. I say give them another year and it will be a lot better
How deep does the government (BATFE) require you to etch a serial number, legally?
Does it remove rust?
Does it mark chrome plating ( remark sockets)?