As a hungarian, this was actually a pretty interesting timeline! And also very realistic! Most other youtubers just make another trianon as soon as Hungary loses any war whatsoever, which is fairly unrealistic.
@Tomi-gm9qe exactly! With the same mistakes that Trianon has. Some people really just think that Hungary's borders actually reflect all the places where hungarians live😂 which is laughable
Yeah, I've figured so too and I completely disagree with that take Hungary would, at the short term at least, be a relatively powerful state and them just losing one war doesn't mean that they'd lose literally everything Trianon was by far the harshest treaty of WW1 mostly because the minor Entente powers had claims on the Hungarian state Here this wouldn't really happen
@justagreekhistorian Yea lol. As a Hispanic (Puerto Rican) I always wondered why Spain didn't try to restore Rome, after all they literally owned southern Italy for a bit, and at that time had the largest and wealthiest empire in Europe. Had they had better luck and leadership they could've probably consolidated control over all of Iberia and eventually Italy. Hell maybe they could even end up controlling France through royal marriages, hence restoring the Western Roman Empire, and if they fought and won a few decisive wars against the Ottomans, they could claim control over the Mediterranean and restore the full Roman Empire. Lol I think it is cursed but also an interesting scenario, highly unrealistic but one can only dream.
@justagreekhistorian Oooo one can do this by simply changing the foreign house that become the rulers of Spain. Instead of the Habsburgs, which lead to the sickly Charles II, the less inbred Bourbons could replace them, paving the way for Spain, France, and Italy to be one state again. Perhaps they would call themselves the Latin Empire, a nod to their Roman/Latin roots but also acknowledging that their culture and people were a lot different than the ancient Romans. After all I call myself a Puerto Rican, not a Spanaird.
this didnt happened because spain was in a union with austria, and they were already empeors of the HRE. so the habsburgs much preffered this title. and after that this still wasnt posible because it would have mean turning the hre into direct enemies, along with russia, the ottomans, and mayor intensification of spanish-french mutual hate.
Diplomatically speaking even if Franz Joseph didn't ask for a Russian intervention, Hungary would not ally itself with Russia. It simply makes no sense. The Hungarian interest would be to eventually set Poland free to form a block between Germany and Russia along with Hungary. A Russo-Hungarian alliance would set a bad precedent in Poland as any Polish independence movement would see the success of Hungary and its recognition by Russia as a legitimization of their own goals. And at this point, in the 1850's to 1870's you also have to account for the massive ideological and cultural opposition that would exist between a democratic and liberal, Catholic-Protestant Hungary and an absolutist and arch-conservative, Orthodox Russian Empire. Simply neither party would would seek an alliance because of the vast ideological, cultural divide and opposing interests. Russia would absolutely detest liberal democratic ideals to be spread by the Polish veterans of the Hungarian revolution such as Józef Bem and Hungarian idealists who had a long history of supporting Polish independence against Russia, while Hungary would absolutely not want Russian influence to increase on the Balkans, nor a Russia-lead pan-Slavic movement that encircles Hungary. Remember the Polish were basically the only Slavs of the period who opposed the Russians. from the Czechs to the Serbs everyone looked to Russia, including Orthodox, Cyrillic-alphabet using Romania. There are also no historic ties between Russia and Hungary while there were several attempts in the past by the Hungarian elite (the last time in the early 1700's during Rákóczi's rebellion) to ally Hungary with France and gain French support for Hungarian independence against Austria. Such connections would be likely sought both by France and by Hungary to counteract Germany and to secure Western financial backing and know-how for the fledgeling republic. Széchenyi himself was deeply influenced by the British, and wanted to modernize the Hungarian economy following British examples. So in the case of a successful Hungarian revolution and independence, as one of the most prominent and well respected aristocrats, he absolutely would have pushed for closer ties with the British. And the British absolutely would have welcomed a player in Central Europe who could counteract the Germans and the Russians, as the British at the time were all about continental stability. So both Russia and Germany (especially if they unified with Austria) would be natural rivals for Hungary. Hungary's natural allies in this scenario would be Italy, France, and the British Empire, both on ideological grounds (democracy, especially if the Hungarian and Italian independence movements in the 1840's and 1850's supported each other) and in order to maintain the status-quo on the continent. Italians would likely oppose German supremacy and Hungary would be a natural ally against that, while Hungary would support alliances with anyone else against Russia and Germany. Like I said, the Brits would want a stabilizing and balancing force, while the French would want someone in Germany's back. The Italian alliance could also hinge on the status of Istria and Dalmatia. Theoretically a solution could come about where Italy takes Istria while Hungary takes Dalmatia on account of Croatia. The Ottoman Empire would be also an interesting player. They could be used as leverage against the Italians for a Hungarian claim on Dalmatia, as Hungarian-Croatian rule would be preferable to Ottoman rule, while the Italians could be used as leverage against the Ottomans, as Hungarian-Croatian Dalmatia would be preferable to Italian ambitions in Dalmatia and eventually Albania. Hungary would likely support some form of autonomy or independence of the Balkan nations *as long as* that independence doesn't coincide with a massive Russian influence in these countries. So Hungary would support the Ottomans against Russia, but they would also support independence movements within the Ottoman Empire in exchange for Hungarian economic influence and political neutrality/Hungarian alliance of these countries. Even in our timeline, Hungarian politicians were against the annexation of Bosnia, they were absolutely against the possible annexation of Serbia in the case of a victorious WW1, and I think if a more liberal and democratic-minded government came to power in the 1850's that tried to balance among the Great Powers, then the Hungarian government would be just as, if not even more in opposition of annexing Balkan countries. They'd probably try to strike some sort of balance of power where the Balkan countries could be used as allies against the Turks and an export market for Hungarian goods, while the Turks could be used as allies against Serbian nationalism and Russian influence. So the whole setup really comes down to this: how does Germany's and Russia's relationship develop? I think they are more likely to develop an uneasy neutrality towards one another rather than to form an outright rivalry. This could actually lead to a pretty stable situation. Germany would be opposed by Hungary, possibly Italy, France and Britain, leaving the Germans completely surrounded. That leaves an uneasy alliance with Russia, potentially Italy and the Ottoman Empire wide open. The Russians and the Ottomans however are natural rivals, so if an Italian-German-Russian block started to form, everyone else on the continent would turn against them. You would have a stable French-Hungarian-British-Russian anti-German bloc which Italy would join if they saw how outnumbered they are, and you would also have a stable anti-Russian bloc with Germany, Hungary, the Ottomans and the British. Even if France might try to ally itself with Russia against Germany, Italy would be a fickle ally to either France or Germany, an increase of Russian influence would immediately galvanize the British, Hungary and the Ottomans to support the Germans instead. France would become surrounded and they'd drop the Russian alliance because crushing Germany is not as important for them as imperial ambitions are for the Germans. If Germany would start to get too powerful, their only potential allies would be Italy and the Ottomans, but this would prompt Russia, Hungary, France and the British to counteract them. A Russio-German alliance would be unlikely because Germany has ambitions in Poland and the Baltics while Russia is naturally anxious about German power, but even if such an alliance formed, you might throw Italy in with them, but literally everyone else would be against them.
Yeah I have received criticism already about the alliance structure and I have tried to justified it At the end of the day, your points are really good and I don't really have much to say, so to speak ? However, I do think that a Russo-German rivalry is quite plausible. Germany would see Russia as a major threat for their long term plans of European domination. France fears this too, but they viewed Germany as the greater threat, which is why I think that said alliance structure could have worked out for them Though yeah, I think it's a pity I choice Hungary to be in the Entente rather than neutrality or the Central Powers If I ever make a follow up video, I will discuss said possibility in more depth
I saw Bosnia more or less as a bonus, my main point would have been Romania, as the Hungarians would want to control that territory (directly or indirectly idk) for two reasons 1. Romanian nationalism could spark revolts across the republic, risking the loss of Transylvania later on which brings onto my second point 2. which is that should the Hungarians get control over the country, then they are likely to split in two and install puppet rulers which would also enforce Magyarization policies as to stop any attempt of a Romanian independent state
@@justagreekhistorian with all due respect, i dont still think its realistic... In this scenario Kossuth's ideas are the prevailing one, NOT Ferenc Deák's ideas (which includes Deák's "magyarization" idea). Kossuth was a pro-danubian federationist, in fact, when the Austro-Hungarian Compromise was made he wrote an article denouncing it and instead arguing for, like i said, a Danubian Federation, modeled after the US (he was living in Exile in the US by this point, and he held a LOT of pro-unionist speeches during the US Civil War there too). It CAN be argued to Kossuth adopted these ideas after the defeat, but i personally disagree with this argument, simply, because by Spring 1849 (before the Russian Intervention, i might add), he already secured a ceasefire with msot minorities in exchange of autonomy... Right after the Hungarian army won a decisive series of victories against the Habsburgs during the Spring Offensive (so, basically he had no reason to negotiate, he was winning in all front at that moment, and still, he promised the minorities autonomy and other concessions... which never bore fruit sadly, because as we know, the russians gonna intervene and make all those promises unfulfilled). And just to reinforce my point further: the Revolution in Vienna broken out in March 13th, 1848... Because ppl. in Vienna got their hands on Kossuth's 12 points, with the adendum of requesting a constitution for the Austrian half of the empire (and it was by that point been passed the vote in the Hungarian Diet in Pozsony/Pressburg/Bratislava - whichever name anyone prefer). The public circulation of the 12 Point and Demand for a Austrian Consitution by Kossuth is what caused the Revolution in Vienna... But thats beg the question: why did Kossuth even bother with demanding a constitution for the entire empire ON TOP of the 12 point... the 12 point was basically already guaranteed Hungary's de facto independence, there was absolutely no need for a Austrian Constitution from a Hungarian Nationalist PoW... Which points strongly towards Kossuth already beeing concerned about policy in a Regional sense (or should we say... he was a federationist even back then?) Dont get me wrong, i dont blame you for not knowing this details, this aspect of Kossuth is rarely brought up nowadays, because it would paint the Austro-Hungarian Compromise as our biggest mistake ever made, which nobody actually wanted to say out loud after WW1 (mostly, because after the series of revolutions which rocked the country it was the very same establishment who found itself ruling the country again which signed that Compromise to begin with... and after that it became a tabboo to even talk about anything which could have been done differently during the Communist period, because it would make you seem like a "reactionary" who is "burdened down by nationalist nonsense". And well, thats already 100+ year for a narrative to solidify, Trianon, Magyarization and everything else gotten solidified as "innevitable", even thoguh they werent. Also, as a side note: it was not ego and pride which got into the way from the hungarian side to come to agreement with the minorities sooner... it was dumbfoundedness and not understandign the problem to begin with... These were all liberals to the core, for them ethnicity didnt actually mattered at the grand scheme of things... "we wrote a constitution which apply for EVERYONE, and limit the government abiltiy to do things against EVERYONE... what else to demand more for ANYONE" was their reasoning, and they honestly didnt understood why the minorities were not satisfied with jsut that... The outright hostility against the minorities born out of this fundamental misunderstanding between the two sides from the Hungarian political elite, who felt like the minorities betrayed their liberal ideas and handed both themselves and them to the mercy of tyrants... i dont think i need to detail what caused the hostilites form the minorities side, considerign they are the "winners" of our current timeline and had plently of opportunity to tell their side of the story, os we all know that... And like i said, Ferenc Deák was one of the ppl. who fell into this camp... That beeing said, in our timeline the anti-compromise opposition was no better either, they also viewed the minorities the same way, and also viewed them as a element which can never be trusted ever again... Thats basically the background and the genesis story of the magyarization and hungarian supremacist policies Basically, what im getting at is, 1848 is when EVERYTHING went wrong for Hungary, and changing this moment in history changes fundamentally everything in regards of what may happen to whatever direction.
@@justagreekhistorianthere was never magyarization in Hungary. Its dumb propaganda by the winners. We dont say germanization, ronanianization, serbianization, etc., only magyarization. While only hungary and austria didnt have assimilation policy, but it was natural in other countries and still is.
Great video ! I was writing for somebody to cover this what if. The only thing is that I think there's also a chance that Britain doesn't lean towards Germany, leaning towards France and Russia instead, since they may very well be more afraid of the sudden, massive German Empire than Russia. A bit like they did in our timeline, but with an even larger Germany to fear. Still, your WW1 looks pretty realistic nonetheless.
Yeah, I kinda brushed off the idea that Britain would join the Entente mainly because 1. It wouldn't be as interesting and 2. If I covered both scenarios the video would have been waaay too long
I have issues with this. Why Hungarians, whose country was already not even majority Hungarian, would seek to annex additional lands to make their share of the population even smaller? Hungary was supposed to be a nation state for Hungarians not a multi-national state like the Hapsburg monarchy. Also at this point the Romanian and South Slavic lands weren't even independent and I think any wise Hungarian leader would want those regions to remain under Ottoman control rather than hot beds for Romanian or Slavic nationalism. Hungary would either be neutral or on the side of Germany, Britain and the Ottomans. Also Persia doesn't need to be forced to join anything. With Russia and Britain on opposing sides of the war and Persia having no real army Persia becoming a battleground is inevitable. Russia would invade from north and Persia would join Britain against Russia.
Okay so here's my thought process here, Hungary wanted to be a nation state indeed, but also wanted to include all lands that they saw as rightfully Hungarian The different ethnic groups would be oppressed and the Hungarians would become the dominant force within the state Bosnia isn't necessarily what the Hungarians wanted, what they wanted is Romania Likely, they would plan to install puppet governments in Wallachia and Moldavia separately as to divide the Romanian nation and enforce a magyarization on those areas too. This not only gives Hungary access to the Black Sea but also destroys any Romanian national state that could have claims on Transylvania in the future Then the Persian front is almost the same as what I mentioned but instead the Russians would invade first instead of the British, which is also very possible
In reality, some of them like the areas with Hungarian population such as parts of Transylvania would be independent again. That's what most of the more sane nationalists would want anyway. Only problem, they would form microstates which would likely couldn't stand on their own so actually that doesn't work either-unless people living there think they could manage on their own. Historically Transylvania was always independent. I think @justagreekhistorian is right about any other people likely ending up oppressed which is why i have a particular dislike for these 'everything back' sorts of loony nationalists. This attitude is part of the reason why we all hate each other in Hungary (everyone's a minority or part-minority anyway)the other end of the extreme is just as bad. Also ethnic massacres happened against Hungarians which changed the ethnicities of some regions, also Horthy wasn't as morally perfect as history books would tell. But at the time people might have thought this (the 'everything back' i mean)was somehow pragmatic approach, it wasn't. Hungary at the beginning started out as a multi-national state which slowly, not so slowly morphed into this 'nation state' that isn't really a nation state because 99%+ of the country descend from migrants and there's a small minority that thinks it's somehow more Hungarian even though it isn't f.ex. Szálasi was a Slovak, meanwhile Romanians claim Mátyás as a Cuman was somehow Romanian but wasn't. But that's mostly 20. and 21. century nationalism, people especially statesmen of the 19. century were smarter than that, if someone can't be convinced to join us with diplomacy alone (which would have ironically resembled Conquest-era Hungary's tribal confederation held together with close ties more than the 'civilized' christian Hungary later on which ended up killing off the identities of all of the above)then that's it-they would have realised that. I still can't accept Hungary as a nation state today, the first golden age of Hungary was before that, the second under Matthias, the third under the pragmatic rule of the Habsburgs and the great classical liberal statesmen and national heroes of Hungary at the time opposing some of their hypocrisy when the Age of Enlightenment was in full swing.
@@justagreekhistorian My man I have had some talks with Hungarian nationalists and I have never seen them claiming Wallachia or Moldavia. Not to mention neither of them have ever been part of Greater Hungary, they only were under their influence in late middle ages. At least Bosnia was controlled by Hungary for sometimes but even that wasn't as long as their hold on Croatia-Slavonia or anything within Carpathian Basin.
It's crazy how a random mid-19th century revolution being successful changes the course of history so much, the Hungarian Revolution has to be one of the most underrated points of divergence in 19th century history, together with something like Crimean War... Great video.
It's so dammit cool to see how your content thanks to the new maps have improved drastically I loved your content even when the maps weren't the best good job!
@@justagreekhistorian No problem whenever your map may be less cooler or not you know how to tell the alternative histories so thank you for your videos!
I’d love to see one where John hunyadi died in infancy (or something like that), leading to the habsburgs gaining all of Hungary at once after their otl claim/succession to its throne, seeing what ramifications it had.
Good job, but I have some things to point out: firstly the hungarians had internal issues during the revulution of 1848-49, there was disagrement between Görgei Artúr(he was a general during that period) and Kossuth in how to do the operations so in 1849 Kossuth's plan was to capture Buda and Görgey's plan was to beseige Vienna so they had a fight about this and because of this Kossuth fired Görgey and called him a triator this is a key moment in the fall of this revolition because Görgei never come back they calutred Buda and never went for Vienna so id don't think it would be enough if they fought for another year if this is not fixed or never even happened. Secoundly: there wouldn't be a german unification before a war with france because in real life germany united because of the franco-prussian war the little states feared from french agression so they united with prussia against france And lastly: about the trench warfer I don't think that in the 1880's would be trench warfer because the military technology weren't on that level that a trench warfer would be beneficial. But It's a good video, and also I would love to see a video about the Rákoczi revolition, thank you.
For the first objection, I can't really say anything, as doing research for this revolution proved to be quite difficult as for some reason it is rarely ever talked about Then, the Franco-German war did happen in the video, though what I'd imagine is as Prussia consolidates Germany, France, seeing this as a threat, would declare war on Prussia and as a result German unification will be achieved I have never heard of the Rákoczi revolution, I will check it out, sounds interesting Anyways, thanks for the support mate!
@@jozsinagy9833 Elnézést kérek ha nem volt perfekt az angolom, és tudom hogy ez egy megosztó téma, de amellett a tény mellett nem mehetünk el, hogy a magyar kormány nem volt túl stabil, Görgey pedig kulcsfotosságú szerepet játszott sok csatában, és a neve Kossuth miatt van bemocskolva. A másik amit írtam, hogy Bécs ellen akart vonulni, az egy lehtőség volt amit akkoriban fenntartott Görgey mint lehetőség, viszont ez a buda visszafoglalásának kárára kellet volna történjen, amről Kossuth hallani sem akart, és az előtt sem rózsás varátságukat ez egy olyan pontra juttat, amiből kifolyólag Kossuth kirúgta és árulónak hívta Görgeyt. Persze ez szubjektív téma, én szerintem ez egy fontos szempont volt a szabadság hatc bukásában. De szívesen meghallgatom a te álláspontodat.
@@marikmark4597 Szerintem beszélgetni meg okoskodni egy adott témában, akkor érdemes, ha legalább általános iskolai szintű ismereteid vannak, de nálad ez is hiányzik. Kossuth meg Görgey között több ponton is volt feszültség, ezek egy része politikai természetű volt más része meg katonai. Buda visszavétele az pont nem volt ilyen, ebben olyan nagy vita nem volt, Bécs elfoglalására reális esély nem mutatkozott, teljesen reális döntés volt Buda visszavétele, nem ezen vesztek össze. Haynau támadása, meg az orosz intervenció után abban volt ellentét, hogy Kossuth, a csapatokat Szegedre rendelte, Görgey pedig Komáromnál akarta összpontosítani az erőket, hogy Haynaut megverje. Ezt a saját csapataival megpróbálta, de két komáromi csata után végül engedett Kossuth nyomásának és elindította a csapatait délre, amivel feladta az országot gyakorlatilag, de ez volt a parancs. Még a déli összpontosítás is összejöhetett volna, ha a Dembinski a déli magyar csapatokkal nem Temesvár felé vonul, ahol aztán - már Bem vezetésével - a magyar csapatok döntő vereséget szenvednek, anélkül, hogy egyesülni tudtak volna Görgey seregével. Ez után Kossuth diktátornak nevezte ki Görgeyt, aki letette a fegyvert Világosnál, mert nem akarta vágóhídra vezetni a seregét, Kossuth meg az emigrációból mocskolta őt. Röviden ennyi, bár nem tudom mennyi ment át belőle. A lényeg, hogy nem Buda elfoglalásával volt a gond.
Love your work and my suggestion: To stick with the Austria-Hungary theme here, what if Austria won the Austro-Prussian War and United with the South German States? Happy Halloween! 🎃👍
There wasn't ever a major slovak uprising during the revolution. The reason is hungary managed to implement the emancipation of serfs in Upper Hungary, while they were slowed down in their efforts in Transylvania and the turkish borders so the pro Habsburg nobles could hold emancipation as a bribe for the masses.
I mostly used two mapping videos as sources for the territories which is why they looked big on the map, but in reality the Slovaks weren't really a major force within the country tbh
@@justagreekhistorian The only major "slovak" force was the upper danube army wich was mostly made of slovak consrcripts (After the disastrous attack on Vienna) and was commanded by General Görgely Artúr.
@@justagreekhistorian Yeah as a pole it has been in my head for a bit as if we somehow succeeded and liberated Warsaw it could cause an escalation causing more uprisings around the country causing us to not be left as a soviet puppet. This could have occurred if we obtained lend lease from the allies at that moment or if the soviets came to our aid (the later would never happen.) The iron curtain could have shifted therefore having Warsaw divided and not berlin? Intern having a very shifted cold war dynamic
Yeah also, the soviets would be kinda shocked at the sight since they intentionally left the uprising to die since they wanted the territory great idea lol.
Congrats for 4k subs brother! This timeline explains just how hungary and lombardo veneto were important for austria, and how without those, iw would have collapsed into misery. Also it changed the german unificaton A LOT, and possibly even our history until today ,sice ww1 would have never happened, or if it happened, in a very different way. Since it started 20 years earlier , many technologies like tanks would have never invented.. maybe, All of this, because hungary managed to become indipendent.
@justagreekhistorian dude your editing and script have upgraded to such an extent, I would consider it " piece of cake " for you tbh . Keep up the good work though, this one slapped
I already saw a comment about this topic but what if venice formed italy by winning wars against the Habsburgs or Ottomans, consolidating ownership of greece and maybe forming a union with them like hungary and austria? Kind of unrealistic but it seems like a fun idea
Interesting, though it most certainly wouldn't be anything like our timeline, unless Venice managed to inspire an early form of nationalism which is possible I guess? For sure sounds fun though, I'd add it to the list!
@@justagreekhistorian I wouldn't really say nationalism, more like conquest of the other Italian states by force and I feel like it would be easier to consolidate control over the weak Italian states than the Habsburgs, Ottomans, Spanish or French
The problem of Hungary in 1848 was that it wanted independence and rights ONLY for the Hungarians and not for the other ethnic groups in their kingdom!!! They wanted the others to continue to be enslaved. For example, the Romanians in Transylvania under the leadership of Avram Iancu fought against the Hungarians in 1848 precisely for this reason, for rights that the Hungarians of Lajos Kossuth and others hungarians did not want to offer them!
I'm not quite sure if this is how events would play out. Hungary and Germany would both become powerful thanks to the 1848 Revolutions and at the expense of Austria. I think this would make Germany and Hungary natural allies and I don't really see any reason why they would be opposed to each other. I also don't think Germany and Russia would really have any reason to oppose each other, either. In our own timeline, Germany had to choose between Austria-Hungary and Russia, but if there is no Austria, then they can just ally with *_both_* Hungary and Russia. With Hungary instead of Austria-Hungary, a Triple Alliance could actually work, as Hungary wouldn't really need German or Balkanic territories. Another reason as to why Germany and Russia could ally is that the wife of Nicholas I of Russia was the sister of Frederick William IV and William I, so the Russian and German royal families were closely related.
Hmm okay, so that's an interesting possibility, though I still have my reason to go with the timeline that I did First, I do think that the Hungarians and the Germans would likely at least somewhat oppose each-other, as Hungary holds many territories of German speakers, including Bratislava and some minor territories close to the border Of course, that's not to say that an alliance is impossible, I just think it is more likely that they'd go against each other However, my main point is that Germany, similar to Britain would also fear the rise of Russia. The country is so immensely overpowered that if they industrialized then they would be unstoppable In the short term, an alliance between Germany and Russia could work, but in the long term Germany cannot count on the Russians due to the reasons mentioned earlier But regardless, I do feel like your suggestion sounds more reasonable and more importantly more fun but that's the direction I took my video on the matter
@justagreekhistorian *Well, but if Germany is afraid of the rise of Russia, then what would make Hungary not afraid of Russia? I find it highly unlikely that Hungary and Germany would go to war over a few German speaking towns. And even if Germany was afraid of Russia, Britain was also afraid of Russia, yet Britain was still on the same side as Russia in the Great War. And if the war happens decades earlier, then Russia wouldn't have as much time prior to the war to industrialise as in our own timeline. It would have been - at least in the short term - in Germany's interest to ally with Russia and Hungary, as it would mean there is no Eastern front for Germany to worry about. Germany can focus on France and Russia can focus on the Balkans and the Middle East. It would be a win-win situation for both of them. I could even see Germany defeating France, then betraying the Russians and launching a surprise attack against them.*
The World War has happened before the Berlin Conference and colonies were very scarce in Africa then In a hypothetical part 2, I will explore an alternate Berlin Conference
Well, the Berlin Conference wouldn't happen here as this world war starts in 1877, which is before the Conference took place irl With that being said, I assume that an alternate Berlin Conference could happen following the end of WW1 and would see it being mostly dominated by Germany and Britain
As a Romanian I'm more curious, about what would have happened if Hungary had forced assimilate everyone instead of being greedy/arrogant/having a superior complex, would they ruled half of Europe, or the Western powers would have interfered to stop a superpower from forming in Europe
I find the notion of britain giving such support to germany completely unrealistic. Britain was afraid of the german empire of our timeline for their rapid industrialization and millitarization, they would be absolutely horrified of the same state, but this time with the borders of the holy roman empire. We can easily imagine britain joining on the side of france in the franco-prussian war, or at the very least forcing germany to take far less land via mediation. Similairly for the 1st world war, britain would absolutely not support greater german expansion, nor would they support greater russian expansion. They would most likely be a mediator in the peace deal between germany and the 4 nation alliance. They would force germany to give back french lands while only allowing minor russian expansion into german lands, instead russias bountry would come from the balkan. The scenario would end with russia being relatively isolated politically just as they had been up to this point, the french and germans remaining great powers, italy and hungary competing for minor balkan claims and britain as the arbiter of the balance of power.
Disagreed. Historically, Germany and Britain were already quite close, as Britain and Germany both feared the rise of Russia. The alliance plans broke down in turn because of the catastrophic defeat of Russia to the Japanese, which showed the world that the Russians maybe weren't so powerful, and the naval arms race between Germany and Britain In this scenario, Russia appears way more powerful than they would have actually been because of the incorporation of Galicia and their alliance with Hungary. Britain would be much more concerned about the rise of this Russia, which, since the world war starts in 1877, wouldn't have had a similar catastrophic defeat like in our timeline Germany, then, would still be in its infancy and wouldn't have had the time to militarize to the same extent that they did in our timeline, and while adding Austria is greatly beneficial, it wouldn't appear as a major threat on the surface Sure, Britain may not be as enthusiastic to support the Germans as they did the Entente historically, they'd still want to out as to try to preserve the balance of power. Germany would also lack any significant colonies as the Berlin Conference would yet to take place, while their navy would be nowhere near to the point of challenging the British one While we know in our timeline the immense strength of the German Empire and the problems that plagued the Russian one, the people living in this world don't Russia appears strong and Germany appears much weaker. In the peace deals, I can see the Anglo-German alliance to break down, as Germany refuses to leave any territory mentioned in the video. Britain is forced to accept, but their alliance would be destroyed and would firmly place Britain in the Entente camp in a follow up war I hope this message helps you understand what my thought process for making the sides the way I did in the video Again, I am not an actual historian and I may have made some major mistakes, but overall this alliance structure just seem pretty logical in my opinion
@justagreekhistorian The reason why this friendship would not happen in this timeline is primarily because germany directly annexed the richest half of a former great power. Sure, at the start they would not be as strong, but remember that this state is created on the basis of prussia, and army expansion would be rapid. I can agree that perhaps britain would be more cautious and curious before the franco-prussian war, but after it britain would be absolutely against this alliance. Besides, there is a much more likely chance for russia to ally germany in this timeline just as bismark (which would still be in power) would have hoped. Russia can easily concede hungary re-entering the german sphere, and for that germany would easily concede the dismantling of the ottomans in favor of russia. This is why britain would never truly support either side, instead they would sit on the sidelines and forcing both germany and russia to only make marginal gains against their respective enemies to preserve the balance of power. For that matter i can easily imagine france and britain teaming up with hungary and italy in order to bolster them and maintain the balance of power. Hungary would replace austro-hungary as the central european/balkan giant, and italy would be a moderate power with small balkan claims and a more lenient and friendly policy would be taken in favor of their colonial projects. With this scenario in mind i can see the war being avoided in 1877 with brittish mediation, leading to an almost identical outcome as it had been in the russo-turkish war of our timeline. If germany and russia do not directly ally, then the 1st world war is completely avoided as russia would never stand up against half of europe alone, and if they do ally germany then i have no doubt of a russo-german victory in the great war of 1914.
@@majmunjole8570 Well, yeah, my decision to make Hungary a Russian ally seems kinda odd now. Still, I don't really think Britain will ally with France directly, likely remaining neutral or at least be moderately leaning towards Germany - should a Franco-Russian alliance take shape In the Franco-German war Germany didn't take the important iron rich territories, they just annexes a bit further into France proper, which wouldn't be all that much of a blow towards France industrially speaking But then again, if Russia allies with Germany then I have no doubt that Britain will support France immediately and a war could end up breaking out much sooner, as should the war happen around the same time as it did historically, Russia and Germany are going to win
Thank you for doing this. (Yes, I am a hungarian). A couple of ideas, if I may: whaf if the white army won the russian civil war? What if the SA wasn't purged (basically if the night of the long knives never happened) What if the 1956 hungarian revolt succeeded?
The fact that the Austrians promised autonomy to the minority groups already, while the Hungarians were openly opposed to that due to their ego, makes this unrealistic. Croatia-Slavonia was firmly on the Austrian side due Hungary's desire to annex them fully and also supported Serbian Voivodina in their independence as well so the only way Hungary could've secured it's southern and eastern borders would've been if it lost, or a bit more unrealistically, if it supported Croatia-Slavonia's, Serbian Voivodina's and Transylvania's independence and if the Russians didn't invade past Galicia.
Yes, I am aware of the Hungarian ego here and my thought process is simple. The autonomy of the different minorities would be a temporary solution as in practice, they would still be ruled by Budapest from behind the scenes, while Magyarization policies would be enforced on said territories as to forcefully make all of the inhabitants Hungarian. This of course requires a lot of hindsight from the Hungarian parliament, but I think it could be achieved
Nice video but I dont think there would be trench warfare. Some of technologies weren't invented yet like mmg (maxine gun), others like breechloaded guns were novelty
Personally,i have made a what if scenario of if 1848 collapsed Austrian Empire Basically,even though it is not full video or anything,just few seconds mapping sequence,it is 1848 if Russia did not help Austria and if they+Prussians took to support Hungary either politically or even by fighting Austria themselves The end of war essentially makes Russia annexes parts of Austrian empire north-eastern to Border of Hungarian kingdom, Bohemia becomes indenpendent, Italian states annex lands to Istria Austria is slightly bigher than irl since they get to keep Slovenia and whole Tyrole Hungary has two autonomous regions-Serbian Vojvodina and Croatia Then there is quick rebbelions in Ottomans too,which with help of hungary succeed in Serbia and Bosnia,which get indenpendent Prussia also in the war helps Hungary and is allowed to unite North Germany,but has to ceed some lands to France On the note of South Germany,i see it possible in scenario i made that Bavaria unifies the southern states,being closely allied to Britain,fearing agression by Prussia and France And then everyone looks at Russia,who now has no rival to properly fight it at all,besides Prussia (North Germany) and Hungary I see it possible that peace would last much easier since there would be many more buffer states of medium strenght that would combined overwhelm the more powerfull ones if they tried something (Hungary+Prussia in case of Russian expansionist ideas allied with someone else,likely UK to counter Russian plans and keep them contained, or German southern states being buffer between Prussia and France,that would ally with one if other tries something)
@@PROUD_TITOIST Yeah I have no idea wtf is going on with youtube anymore, like they'd delete comments made by anyone, even by me on my own videos?? Anyways, interesting scenario, can you send the video by any chance? Also thanks for the support
The ottomans would likely not gain any territory as the british sought to limit ottoman expansion in europe, though they might receive border territories in the kaukas
I mean, in the video the Ottomans literally gained nothing and in fact lost Romania as a result of the war I agree that the Ottomans are not going to expand in Europe whatsoever but in the Caucasus they may be rewarded minor border territories
I've always wanted to hear English with a Greek accent. 😅 I am proud of the Byzantine (Greek)-Hungarian heritage, such as dynastic marriages, or even the fact that the foundation of the Hungarian holy crown is of Byzantine origin. Thanks for the video :)
My only criticism is that Hungary should've fell sooner, from what I understand they refused to reform when it came to agriculture, industrialization, so many reforms that Auatria tried to implement that would've made the empire better were rejected every single time, so I feel like in this scenario, Hungary should've fell sooner realizing that because Austria and Germany had modernized so much they would've been completely overwhelmed. Not even the Russian empire would've saved them.
Well, in this timeline, Hungary would have pushed their own reforms too, that was a major aim of the revolutionaries after all, but regardless of that, the timing of Hungary falling doesn't really change that much imo
Πολύ ωραίο βίντεο, όπως πάντα. Μίας και γιορτάσαμε την 28η Οκτωβρίου, θα σου προτείνω ένα σενάριο που έχω σκεφτεί. Αν ο Μεταξάς δεν πέθανε (και συνεπώς δεν άφηνε βρετανικές δυνάμεις να έρθουν στην Ελλάδα) τον Ιανουάριο του '41 και απεκρούαμε όπως και έγινε την εαρινή επίθεση των Ιταλών, αντί να εισβάλουν οι Γερμανοί επιβάλουν μια συνθήκη ειρήνης μεταξύ ημών και Ιταλών. Και αυτοί θα εισέβαλαν στην ΕΣΣΔ νωρίτερα και εμείς δεν θα χάναμε τόσους ανθρώπους (και δεν θα είχαμε και τον εμφύλιο) και οι Ιταλοί θα άλλαζαν στρατόπεδο νωρίτερα (ίσως να παρέμενε η μοναρχία).
@justagreekhistorian ισχύει, ωστόσο μπορείς να φτιάξεις έναν εναλλακτικό β παγκόσμιο όπου να το στριμωξεις και αυτό. Σκέψου ότι εάν δεν εισβάλανε οι Γερμανοί η Γιουγκοσλαβία θα συνέχιζε να είναι μοναρχία και να υποστηρίζει την ιδέα ότι όλοι οι νότιοι Σλάβοι είναι ίδιοι (το αντίθετο από ότι έγινε επί Τίτο), η Βουλγαρία θα παρέμενε και αυτή μοναρχία, οι Ρώσοι θα ήταν πιο αδύναμοι συνεπώς το σιδηρούν παραπέτασμα θα ήταν ανατολικότερα κτλ. Εναλλακτικά κάνε το σορτ ίσα ίσα να χάσουμε εμείς 🤣. Όπως και να χει συνέχισε κάνεις πολύ ωραία βίντεο και μου αρέσουν και οι χάρτες που χρησιμοποιείς.
I don't think that either the mindset of the Archduke or the revolutionary government of Hungary would nesicarely be changed. I'd like to point out that after the defeat of Jelasich he needed to fake a cease-fire with the opposing Hungarian forces and basically use their initial trust to sneak his army out of there towards West and into Austria proper which the Hungarians noticed a bit later and the new national army that defeated him (which was the Hungarian home deffence) started to prossue him, but when they arriaved to the Austrian border they stopped to pounder for a vareity of reasons. You see at this point the Hungarian revolution was more of an uprising than an actual rebellion, and the Hungarian government was more than willing to work with the Emperor and remaine the part of the Empire if their demainds were meet and/or a sutible compromaise had been reached (in otherwords at the start they wanted to reform the empire or at least the Hungarian part not outright leave it). For this reasion the army deaspite the order of Kossuth (who was increasingly gaining emergency powers in the parlament) coming from Budapest (back the Pestbuda) to go through the border, march on Wienna, link up with the rebelling Austrian revolutionaryes that are currently holding the imperial capital and quickly counter and more than likely much easily crush the remaineing imperial forces (thous forcefully implementing their will) was debeated, ignored, opposed and outright rejectied by the armyes higher leadership lead by the maine general of the Hungarian armed forces Arthur Görgey the de'facto supreme leader of the National Army who was solidly supporting the weuve point that the Hungarian National Guards duty is to defend the Hungarian nation and it's territories and people, and useing those forces offensively in the given curcumstace would be the bastardisation of why they stood for and would be not only disingenious but outright treatorous (little bit late there boddy don't ya' think), since at the start declaration of independence thought not off the table was seen as a sort of last resort by many if not most of the Hungarian leadership.
I have no idea how to Baltic, I just draw stuff that make sense to me, though the Polish border def didn't help with this one Anyways, thanks for the support
What could have been interesting was the factual presentation of the events, considering that it was a bloody war lasting one and a half years, about which the world knows nothing. Instead, we got a speculation about what would have happened if Hungary had won. By the way, it is not true that this event is underrated in Hungary. March 15 is our biggest national holiday. It is also stupid that the result of the revolution would have been a republic. Only the Habsburgs were deprived of the throne, the form of government did not change. These are just a few comments. I know that as a foreigner it is difficult to look into this further, but I think the Hungarian heroes of the freedom struggle deserve more.
First of all, this channel follows the niche of alternate history and if you don't like that, that's fine! There are many other channels who can go much more in depth into the revolution than what I could have ever done. I just gave a quick six minute recount so I can begin the video Secondly, the revolution is indeed underrated - outside of Hungary This may sound dumb, as this is a Hungarian revolution, so it would logically follow that it would be unknown outside of the country but no! The Hungarian revolution of 1956 is very well known across the world, as well as most of Hungary's history, except this one revolution which happens to be extremely important in shaping the Hungarian national identity. Thus it can be classified as an underrated revolution
I don't think Hungary would've joined any sides. We had a good relationship with the British and the Americans as and with the Germans. I think Hungary would've stayed neutral for as long as possible. We had nothing to gain with the Balkans we already have a minority "problem" I don't think adding more would be a good idea. But it's a great video! Thank you for covering Hungary!
Yeah, it's also possible Hungary doesn't join any side, but imo that doesn't necessarily change all too much and I feel like them joining the Russians is more interesting. With that being said, the reason why I chose that way is because I find it likely that the Hungarian government would view securing Romania as a top priority The end-goal would be to split the state back into Wallachia and Moldavia and install puppet governments in each state as to start a magyarization process on these states too, preventing the Romanians from ever challenging Hungary's control over Transylvania Anyways, thanks a lot for the support, it means a lot!
If this happens to Austria I think they would have no excuse to search for the creation of grossdeutschland, the only thing that kept them against it were their non-German holdings, now this wouldn’t be the case anymore. Wrote this before watching the video 😅
I belive Germany would take the Burgenland and Bratislava from hungary, as they were more or less entriely german at this point in history, while beeing part of Hungary.
@@kuro1132 Maybe prevent magyarisation. I could imagen a discontent in this regions at the end of the war and a desire of the Population to join a german Nation. An other posibilty could be forced autonmy for All german minorities in hungary. As for the industrieal reasons. The Burgenland is rich in Iron so it could be a great asset for german Industrie. The anexation of Bratislava could hinder the development of slovakia and therefore weaken Hungary.
@@gabork5055 In 1919 70% of Bratislavas Population was either german or Magyar. As for the "at this point": I ment compared to now a dayes, cause as you probably know was the Burgenland split at Trianon. So today a large part is german, but Sopron for example isn't.
Just gona add, when Jelačić invaded Hungary he reclaimed Međimurje. And he and parliment of croatia put some points but they were rejected: Most notleble the one that croatia would be unified with Dalmatia. Sadly that did nit come to happend amd Croatia only unified with Dalmacija 1st time after ww1 (State of Serbs, Vroats and Slovense), 2nd time close to the end of ww2. And only after ww2 Dalmacija became croatian on paper. Sadly not independemt but at least we united with Dalmatia
Zero chance the Croats join an independent Hungary. They would side with Hungary for their own independent state or side with Austria for their own version of 1867.
Well, it technically didn't, as it was annexed by Austria all the way in the Napoleonic wars, and that changing doesn't really change all too much, just a faster unification in Italy If you mean on the other hand never declined well that could be interesting to talk about
@justagreekhistorian I'd say being annexed does qualify as falling lol. Also the premise is that it never falls so Italy would only be united outside of venice. Also their balkan possessions like dalmatia and Greek Islands would change the local dynamics so it could change a lot
Romanian here: Why does Romania not gain Bucovina,this is unacceptable,there are no poles there,fix it next time (please do my take this seriously but just give Bucovina to Romania pls)
Wait what? I literally thought I did lmao If I didn't I am sorry, during the part where they expand into Transylvania I originally wanted to give them Bucovina too, but I may have forgotten, I was really tired when working on the last few slides
Also, i wonder why there was no conflict between denmark and Germany. in 1864 they wanted to take Schleswigian autonomy away which led to the rise up of Germans in Denmark. It's highly unlikely that germany would ignore that, so did Denmark kept Schleswig Autonomous, not even daring to touch it, or did they listen to the rebells?
Well, I mentioned that no major war would take place, I just wouldn't consider a Danish-German war over Schleswig relevant in a video talking about how Hungary gaining independence in 1848 would cause a World War in 1877
Oops Yeahh I may have forgotten that front existed whatsoever 💀 Okay I was kinda tired when writing this script and I had a lot of inconsistencies with it
@@yazovgaming No no, he has got a point, Iran can take Baku and the Ottomans can move the border just slightly more up This strengthens the British quite significantly
Hungary never realy made an expansionist policy. So it's doubtful that it'll ally with Russia or even join it's war. In this early WW1 scenario Hungary would still join to the central powers or remain neutral. Why? Because Russia has expansionist plans which threatened the eastern and south borders. This is also the reason why the Habsburgs who's wanted to stabilize their country annexed Bosnia. To prevent the Serbians (supported by Russia) to expand and form a new empire. Also the Balkanic groups were rebelled against the Ottomans, so the Ottoman empire would lose those territories anyway. To an independent Hungary the primary goal would be to secure a stability not to expand it's land. Therefore it would probably support Serbian and Romanian groups to fight independence, as those may treat Hungary as a helpful ally, and work as independent bufferzones. Same with a Polish revolution. But would also send military support to either the Czech independence war, (as the Czech republic would be a buffer state against a united Germany) or the Habsburgs to keep their throne in Austria in that weakened state (I doubt this scenario, BUT it would be economically and in a military point profitable).
Video idea: What if Habsburgs won the war of Polish succesion placing the Habsburg monarch instead of a Swedish one EDIT: Also the map of Hungarian ethnicities is wrong - it presented the Transilvania as having small Romanian population and most of the area was not populated but that's simply wrong and it was a propaganda move from Hungary trying to claim that entire Transilvania is actually mostly Hungarian with not much Romanians
Yes, that's exactly the goal of that image, Hungarian propaganda If you pay attention, during that part I was talking about how the ethnic groups would be magyarized and when it comes to that policy, that is the most popular map associated with the concept Oh also, your scenario sounds really interesting, thanks a lot 👍
There is nothing wrong with the red map, just because you cannot understand the schematics and methodology behind why it was made (which is not just Propaganda btw) that way does not make it wrong.
Hey guys EveryFriend, Hungary will I think should intoned named "Austrian-Hungarian Republic" wants declared independence is A Republic from Austria-Hungary and like a why Hungary are have Soviet or not?, but so they called "Austrian-Hungarian Republic" is 1918s for defeating Austria-Hungary’s Empire , Austrian-Hungarian Republic has still Have "AntiMonarchist and AntiOttoman" is 1918s, Czech Republic will I think should intoned named "Czechian-Slovak Republic", so why Slovakia a have Soviet or not?, I never a but like by Soviet Union of Slovaks Soviet is called name, I like but since intoned called name "Sultanate of Slovakia" is part of Ottoman since 1683, but calling "Sultanate of Slovakia" is a part of Ottoman’s Vilayet/Provinces are history, so I but Slovakia a have still Sultante is looked like Southwest Asia has still sultanate (Sulawesi) in 1700s are history, Czechian-Slovak Republic has declared independence is a republic from Austria-Hungary’s Empire!, Slovakia is so why Slovakia a have Soviet has calling name or not? In 1918s are history!, Slovakia has still Slovak Soviet Republics for since 1918/19s, Slovak Soviet Republic are friend gets alliance with USSR! Enjoy, Edit: thx for a much 10k likes! 👍
Yeah, i'm sure greece would get an increase of 200-300% in territories (a country not even part of the war!!!!), while Hungary, who would probably be a really small part of the war, would lose 60-70% of it's territory in 1 war and then you say it's the least:) Not to mention, Hungary would very very likely ally itself with Italy and, Great Britain and Ottomans than with Russia or France LMAO. Like this doesn't even make any sense. It's literally historically proven that Hungarians had a lot better relationship with the Sardinia Piedmontese than with Russians or French... Hungary had a large number of Romanian and Serbian and other slavic population on the southern part of it's country and basically they were oppressed by Hungary. The ottomans had the same, they had a lot of slavic people oppressed in their country. Hungary would have benefitted from keeping those territories under Ottoman suppression than those countries getting freed or getting those territories, because it would just mean even more serbian/romanian people would live there.
Who tf said Greece would expand after the war lmao? Greece wasn't even part of the Great War as per the timeline of the video? Plus, Hungary didn't lose almost anything and the most significant parts they lost were some Transylvanian territories which were Romanian majority Also, no it wouldn't benefit Hungary to keep Romania under the Ottoman thumb, during that time, Romania was practically independent in all but name Allowing them to get independence brings up a lot of claims on Transylvania which is just unacceptable to Hungary
@ you must be a troll. I literally said Hungary would not benefit from an independent Romania LMAOOO they would’ve 100% preferred, if Romania stayed under Ottoman oppression.
@@davidtallian8116 Ottoman oppression ??? The Ottomans didn't even have an army in the region? And by 1877 Romania basically acted as if they were independent They only officially became independent after the Russo-Turkish war of 1877 yes, but de facto, Ottoman rule over the region had ended long ago. You are the one getting lmao'd here
I hope it was worth the wait!
Of course, always is
Can you Make a what if Great Moravia survives? Even IF it takes months?
was
As a hungarian, this was actually a pretty interesting timeline! And also very realistic! Most other youtubers just make another trianon as soon as Hungary loses any war whatsoever, which is fairly unrealistic.
yeah thats very annoying that everyone just makes a Trianon with the same borders
@Tomi-gm9qe exactly! With the same mistakes that Trianon has. Some people really just think that Hungary's borders actually reflect all the places where hungarians live😂 which is laughable
Yeah, I've figured so too and I completely disagree with that take
Hungary would, at the short term at least, be a relatively powerful state and them just losing one war doesn't mean that they'd lose literally everything
Trianon was by far the harshest treaty of WW1 mostly because the minor Entente powers had claims on the Hungarian state
Here this wouldn't really happen
@@justagreekhistorian yeah right and if we take the terrorities with Hungarians living in it we got the borders from 1942
@justagreekhistorian I appreciate this a lot
What if the Spanish monarchs used the title of Byzantine Emperor given to them by the last emperor's brother in order to restore the Roman Empire?
Cursed but this sounds fascinating
@justagreekhistorian Yea lol. As a Hispanic (Puerto Rican) I always wondered why Spain didn't try to restore Rome, after all they literally owned southern Italy for a bit, and at that time had the largest and wealthiest empire in Europe. Had they had better luck and leadership they could've probably consolidated control over all of Iberia and eventually Italy. Hell maybe they could even end up controlling France through royal marriages, hence restoring the Western Roman Empire, and if they fought and won a few decisive wars against the Ottomans, they could claim control over the Mediterranean and restore the full Roman Empire. Lol I think it is cursed but also an interesting scenario, highly unrealistic but one can only dream.
@justagreekhistorian Oooo one can do this by simply changing the foreign house that become the rulers of Spain. Instead of the Habsburgs, which lead to the sickly Charles II, the less inbred Bourbons could replace them, paving the way for Spain, France, and Italy to be one state again. Perhaps they would call themselves the Latin Empire, a nod to their Roman/Latin roots but also acknowledging that their culture and people were a lot different than the ancient Romans. After all I call myself a Puerto Rican, not a Spanaird.
@@n00b5lay3rSame my Borther in Christ this would be based
this didnt happened because spain was in a union with austria, and they were already empeors of the HRE. so the habsburgs much preffered this title.
and after that this still wasnt posible because it would have mean turning the hre into direct enemies, along with russia, the ottomans, and mayor intensification of spanish-french mutual hate.
I came here to buy a boiler.
tomcat mi a faszt keresel itt
@@Mioncb Ott van kiírva, nem látod?
@@nematolvajkergetok5104 de igen bocsi főnök
@@MioncbAre you guys family?
@@lunalingo4461 barátom, nem tudod, hol áll a fejed.
Great work! Thanks for coverig Hungary!
Thanks a lot for the support!
Thanks a lot for the support!
@@justagreekhistorianJagher Is an AI confirmed?!?!
@@Grandegattino LMFAO it got posted twice
Diplomatically speaking even if Franz Joseph didn't ask for a Russian intervention, Hungary would not ally itself with Russia. It simply makes no sense.
The Hungarian interest would be to eventually set Poland free to form a block between Germany and Russia along with Hungary.
A Russo-Hungarian alliance would set a bad precedent in Poland as any Polish independence movement would see the success of Hungary and its recognition by Russia as a legitimization of their own goals. And at this point, in the 1850's to 1870's you also have to account for the massive ideological and cultural opposition that would exist between a democratic and liberal, Catholic-Protestant Hungary and an absolutist and arch-conservative, Orthodox Russian Empire. Simply neither party would would seek an alliance because of the vast ideological, cultural divide and opposing interests. Russia would absolutely detest liberal democratic ideals to be spread by the Polish veterans of the Hungarian revolution such as Józef Bem and Hungarian idealists who had a long history of supporting Polish independence against Russia, while Hungary would absolutely not want Russian influence to increase on the Balkans, nor a Russia-lead pan-Slavic movement that encircles Hungary. Remember the Polish were basically the only Slavs of the period who opposed the Russians. from the Czechs to the Serbs everyone looked to Russia, including Orthodox, Cyrillic-alphabet using Romania.
There are also no historic ties between Russia and Hungary while there were several attempts in the past by the Hungarian elite (the last time in the early 1700's during Rákóczi's rebellion) to ally Hungary with France and gain French support for Hungarian independence against Austria. Such connections would be likely sought both by France and by Hungary to counteract Germany and to secure Western financial backing and know-how for the fledgeling republic. Széchenyi himself was deeply influenced by the British, and wanted to modernize the Hungarian economy following British examples. So in the case of a successful Hungarian revolution and independence, as one of the most prominent and well respected aristocrats, he absolutely would have pushed for closer ties with the British. And the British absolutely would have welcomed a player in Central Europe who could counteract the Germans and the Russians, as the British at the time were all about continental stability.
So both Russia and Germany (especially if they unified with Austria) would be natural rivals for Hungary.
Hungary's natural allies in this scenario would be Italy, France, and the British Empire, both on ideological grounds (democracy, especially if the Hungarian and Italian independence movements in the 1840's and 1850's supported each other) and in order to maintain the status-quo on the continent. Italians would likely oppose German supremacy and Hungary would be a natural ally against that, while Hungary would support alliances with anyone else against Russia and Germany. Like I said, the Brits would want a stabilizing and balancing force, while the French would want someone in Germany's back. The Italian alliance could also hinge on the status of Istria and Dalmatia. Theoretically a solution could come about where Italy takes Istria while Hungary takes Dalmatia on account of Croatia. The Ottoman Empire would be also an interesting player. They could be used as leverage against the Italians for a Hungarian claim on Dalmatia, as Hungarian-Croatian rule would be preferable to Ottoman rule, while the Italians could be used as leverage against the Ottomans, as Hungarian-Croatian Dalmatia would be preferable to Italian ambitions in Dalmatia and eventually Albania.
Hungary would likely support some form of autonomy or independence of the Balkan nations *as long as* that independence doesn't coincide with a massive Russian influence in these countries. So Hungary would support the Ottomans against Russia, but they would also support independence movements within the Ottoman Empire in exchange for Hungarian economic influence and political neutrality/Hungarian alliance of these countries. Even in our timeline, Hungarian politicians were against the annexation of Bosnia, they were absolutely against the possible annexation of Serbia in the case of a victorious WW1, and I think if a more liberal and democratic-minded government came to power in the 1850's that tried to balance among the Great Powers, then the Hungarian government would be just as, if not even more in opposition of annexing Balkan countries. They'd probably try to strike some sort of balance of power where the Balkan countries could be used as allies against the Turks and an export market for Hungarian goods, while the Turks could be used as allies against Serbian nationalism and Russian influence.
So the whole setup really comes down to this: how does Germany's and Russia's relationship develop? I think they are more likely to develop an uneasy neutrality towards one another rather than to form an outright rivalry. This could actually lead to a pretty stable situation. Germany would be opposed by Hungary, possibly Italy, France and Britain, leaving the Germans completely surrounded. That leaves an uneasy alliance with Russia, potentially Italy and the Ottoman Empire wide open. The Russians and the Ottomans however are natural rivals, so if an Italian-German-Russian block started to form, everyone else on the continent would turn against them. You would have a stable French-Hungarian-British-Russian anti-German bloc which Italy would join if they saw how outnumbered they are, and you would also have a stable anti-Russian bloc with Germany, Hungary, the Ottomans and the British.
Even if France might try to ally itself with Russia against Germany, Italy would be a fickle ally to either France or Germany, an increase of Russian influence would immediately galvanize the British, Hungary and the Ottomans to support the Germans instead. France would become surrounded and they'd drop the Russian alliance because crushing Germany is not as important for them as imperial ambitions are for the Germans. If Germany would start to get too powerful, their only potential allies would be Italy and the Ottomans, but this would prompt Russia, Hungary, France and the British to counteract them. A Russio-German alliance would be unlikely because Germany has ambitions in Poland and the Baltics while Russia is naturally anxious about German power, but even if such an alliance formed, you might throw Italy in with them, but literally everyone else would be against them.
Yeah I have received criticism already about the alliance structure and I have tried to justified it
At the end of the day, your points are really good and I don't really have much to say, so to speak ? However, I do think that a Russo-German rivalry is quite plausible. Germany would see Russia as a major threat for their long term plans of European domination. France fears this too, but they viewed Germany as the greater threat, which is why I think that said alliance structure could have worked out for them
Though yeah, I think it's a pity I choice Hungary to be in the Entente rather than neutrality or the Central Powers
If I ever make a follow up video, I will discuss said possibility in more depth
@@justagreekhistorian bro, you are him. Like you are one of the best alternate history youtubers i ever seen.
Keep up the good work! Suggestion: What if the Habsburgs still ruled spain?
14:55 I don't think they could win over Hungary with this. The last thing Hungarians wanted in that time was more slavic population in the country
I saw Bosnia more or less as a bonus, my main point would have been Romania, as the Hungarians would want to control that territory (directly or indirectly idk) for two reasons
1. Romanian nationalism could spark revolts across the republic, risking the loss of Transylvania later on
which brings onto my second point 2. which is that should the Hungarians get control over the country, then they are likely to split in two and install puppet rulers which would also enforce Magyarization policies as to stop any attempt of a Romanian independent state
@@justagreekhistorian with all due respect, i dont still think its realistic... In this scenario Kossuth's ideas are the prevailing one, NOT Ferenc Deák's ideas (which includes Deák's "magyarization" idea). Kossuth was a pro-danubian federationist, in fact, when the Austro-Hungarian Compromise was made he wrote an article denouncing it and instead arguing for, like i said, a Danubian Federation, modeled after the US (he was living in Exile in the US by this point, and he held a LOT of pro-unionist speeches during the US Civil War there too).
It CAN be argued to Kossuth adopted these ideas after the defeat, but i personally disagree with this argument, simply, because by Spring 1849 (before the Russian Intervention, i might add), he already secured a ceasefire with msot minorities in exchange of autonomy... Right after the Hungarian army won a decisive series of victories against the Habsburgs during the Spring Offensive (so, basically he had no reason to negotiate, he was winning in all front at that moment, and still, he promised the minorities autonomy and other concessions... which never bore fruit sadly, because as we know, the russians gonna intervene and make all those promises unfulfilled).
And just to reinforce my point further: the Revolution in Vienna broken out in March 13th, 1848... Because ppl. in Vienna got their hands on Kossuth's 12 points, with the adendum of requesting a constitution for the Austrian half of the empire (and it was by that point been passed the vote in the Hungarian Diet in Pozsony/Pressburg/Bratislava - whichever name anyone prefer). The public circulation of the 12 Point and Demand for a Austrian Consitution by Kossuth is what caused the Revolution in Vienna... But thats beg the question: why did Kossuth even bother with demanding a constitution for the entire empire ON TOP of the 12 point... the 12 point was basically already guaranteed Hungary's de facto independence, there was absolutely no need for a Austrian Constitution from a Hungarian Nationalist PoW... Which points strongly towards Kossuth already beeing concerned about policy in a Regional sense (or should we say... he was a federationist even back then?)
Dont get me wrong, i dont blame you for not knowing this details, this aspect of Kossuth is rarely brought up nowadays, because it would paint the Austro-Hungarian Compromise as our biggest mistake ever made, which nobody actually wanted to say out loud after WW1 (mostly, because after the series of revolutions which rocked the country it was the very same establishment who found itself ruling the country again which signed that Compromise to begin with... and after that it became a tabboo to even talk about anything which could have been done differently during the Communist period, because it would make you seem like a "reactionary" who is "burdened down by nationalist nonsense". And well, thats already 100+ year for a narrative to solidify, Trianon, Magyarization and everything else gotten solidified as "innevitable", even thoguh they werent.
Also, as a side note: it was not ego and pride which got into the way from the hungarian side to come to agreement with the minorities sooner... it was dumbfoundedness and not understandign the problem to begin with... These were all liberals to the core, for them ethnicity didnt actually mattered at the grand scheme of things... "we wrote a constitution which apply for EVERYONE, and limit the government abiltiy to do things against EVERYONE... what else to demand more for ANYONE" was their reasoning, and they honestly didnt understood why the minorities were not satisfied with jsut that... The outright hostility against the minorities born out of this fundamental misunderstanding between the two sides from the Hungarian political elite, who felt like the minorities betrayed their liberal ideas and handed both themselves and them to the mercy of tyrants... i dont think i need to detail what caused the hostilites form the minorities side, considerign they are the "winners" of our current timeline and had plently of opportunity to tell their side of the story, os we all know that... And like i said, Ferenc Deák was one of the ppl. who fell into this camp... That beeing said, in our timeline the anti-compromise opposition was no better either, they also viewed the minorities the same way, and also viewed them as a element which can never be trusted ever again... Thats basically the background and the genesis story of the magyarization and hungarian supremacist policies
Basically, what im getting at is, 1848 is when EVERYTHING went wrong for Hungary, and changing this moment in history changes fundamentally everything in regards of what may happen to whatever direction.
@@justagreekhistorianthere was never magyarization in Hungary. Its dumb propaganda by the winners. We dont say germanization, ronanianization, serbianization, etc., only magyarization. While only hungary and austria didnt have assimilation policy, but it was natural in other countries and still is.
Great video ! I was writing for somebody to cover this what if. The only thing is that I think there's also a chance that Britain doesn't lean towards Germany, leaning towards France and Russia instead, since they may very well be more afraid of the sudden, massive German Empire than Russia. A bit like they did in our timeline, but with an even larger Germany to fear. Still, your WW1 looks pretty realistic nonetheless.
Yeah, I kinda brushed off the idea that Britain would join the Entente mainly because 1. It wouldn't be as interesting and 2. If I covered both scenarios the video would have been waaay too long
I have issues with this. Why Hungarians, whose country was already not even majority Hungarian, would seek to annex additional lands to make their share of the population even smaller? Hungary was supposed to be a nation state for Hungarians not a multi-national state like the Hapsburg monarchy. Also at this point the Romanian and South Slavic lands weren't even independent and I think any wise Hungarian leader would want those regions to remain under Ottoman control rather than hot beds for Romanian or Slavic nationalism. Hungary would either be neutral or on the side of Germany, Britain and the Ottomans.
Also Persia doesn't need to be forced to join anything. With Russia and Britain on opposing sides of the war and Persia having no real army Persia becoming a battleground is inevitable. Russia would invade from north and Persia would join Britain against Russia.
Okay so here's my thought process here, Hungary wanted to be a nation state indeed, but also wanted to include all lands that they saw as rightfully Hungarian
The different ethnic groups would be oppressed and the Hungarians would become the dominant force within the state
Bosnia isn't necessarily what the Hungarians wanted, what they wanted is Romania
Likely, they would plan to install puppet governments in Wallachia and Moldavia separately as to divide the Romanian nation and enforce a magyarization on those areas too. This not only gives Hungary access to the Black Sea but also destroys any Romanian national state that could have claims on Transylvania in the future
Then the Persian front is almost the same as what I mentioned but instead the Russians would invade first instead of the British, which is also very possible
In reality, some of them like the areas with Hungarian population such as parts of Transylvania would be independent again.
That's what most of the more sane nationalists would want anyway.
Only problem, they would form microstates which would likely couldn't stand on their own so actually that doesn't work either-unless people living there think they could manage on their own.
Historically Transylvania was always independent.
I think @justagreekhistorian is right about any other people likely ending up oppressed which is why i have a particular dislike for these 'everything back' sorts of loony nationalists.
This attitude is part of the reason why we all hate each other in Hungary (everyone's a minority or part-minority anyway)the other end of the extreme is just as bad.
Also ethnic massacres happened against Hungarians which changed the ethnicities of some regions, also Horthy wasn't as morally perfect as history books would tell.
But at the time people might have thought this (the 'everything back' i mean)was somehow pragmatic approach, it wasn't.
Hungary at the beginning started out as a multi-national state which slowly, not so slowly morphed into this 'nation state' that isn't really a nation state because 99%+ of the country descend from migrants and there's a small minority that thinks it's somehow more Hungarian even though it isn't f.ex. Szálasi was a Slovak, meanwhile Romanians claim Mátyás as a Cuman was somehow Romanian but wasn't.
But that's mostly 20. and 21. century nationalism, people especially statesmen of the 19. century were smarter than that, if someone can't be convinced to join us with diplomacy alone (which would have ironically resembled Conquest-era Hungary's tribal confederation held together with close ties more than the 'civilized' christian Hungary later on which ended up killing off the identities of all of the above)then that's it-they would have realised that.
I still can't accept Hungary as a nation state today, the first golden age of Hungary was before that, the second under Matthias, the third under the pragmatic rule of the Habsburgs and the great classical liberal statesmen and national heroes of Hungary at the time opposing some of their hypocrisy when the Age of Enlightenment was in full swing.
@@justagreekhistorian My man I have had some talks with Hungarian nationalists and I have never seen them claiming Wallachia or Moldavia. Not to mention neither of them have ever been part of Greater Hungary, they only were under their influence in late middle ages. At least Bosnia was controlled by Hungary for sometimes but even that wasn't as long as their hold on Croatia-Slavonia or anything within Carpathian Basin.
It's crazy how a random mid-19th century revolution being successful changes the course of history so much, the Hungarian Revolution has to be one of the most underrated points of divergence in 19th century history, together with something like Crimean War... Great video.
Great video! Make a part 2 plz
I may make a part two in the future, but I don't know for now
life could be dream
Worth the wait! Salutes from Romania!
It's so dammit cool to see how your content thanks to the new maps have improved drastically I loved your content even when the maps weren't the best good job!
Yo! Thanks a lot for the constant support; it's people like you who help me keep motivated to continue this channel, so thank you!
@@justagreekhistorian No problem whenever your map may be less cooler or not you know how to tell the alternative histories so thank you for your videos!
I’d love to see one where John hunyadi died in infancy (or something like that), leading to the habsburgs gaining all of Hungary at once after their otl claim/succession to its throne, seeing what ramifications it had.
The first normal video about an alternative 1848 revolution!
I am pretty sure I know which video you are referring to when it comes to the Hungarian revolution haha, but thank you for the support!
Good job, but I have some things to point out: firstly the hungarians had internal issues during the revulution of 1848-49, there was disagrement between Görgei Artúr(he was a general during that period) and Kossuth in how to do the operations so in 1849 Kossuth's plan was to capture Buda and Görgey's plan was to beseige Vienna so they had a fight about this and because of this Kossuth fired Görgey and called him a triator this is a key moment in the fall of this revolition because Görgei never come back they calutred Buda and never went for Vienna so id don't think it would be enough if they fought for another year if this is not fixed or never even happened.
Secoundly: there wouldn't be a german unification before a war with france because in real life germany united because of the franco-prussian war the little states feared from french agression so they united with prussia against france
And lastly: about the trench warfer I don't think that in the 1880's would be trench warfer because the military technology weren't on that level that a trench warfer would be beneficial.
But It's a good video, and also I would love to see a video about the Rákoczi revolition, thank you.
For the first objection, I can't really say anything, as doing research for this revolution proved to be quite difficult as for some reason it is rarely ever talked about
Then, the Franco-German war did happen in the video, though what I'd imagine is as Prussia consolidates Germany, France, seeing this as a threat, would declare war on Prussia and as a result German unification will be achieved
I have never heard of the Rákoczi revolution, I will check it out, sounds interesting
Anyways, thanks for the support mate!
Legalább ne írkálnál baromságokat, ha már írsz.
@@jozsinagy9833 Elnézést kérek ha nem volt perfekt az angolom, és tudom hogy ez egy megosztó téma, de amellett a tény mellett nem mehetünk el, hogy a magyar kormány nem volt túl stabil, Görgey pedig kulcsfotosságú szerepet játszott sok csatában, és a neve Kossuth miatt van bemocskolva. A másik amit írtam, hogy Bécs ellen akart vonulni, az egy lehtőség volt amit akkoriban fenntartott Görgey mint lehetőség, viszont ez a buda visszafoglalásának kárára kellet volna történjen, amről Kossuth hallani sem akart, és az előtt sem rózsás varátságukat ez egy olyan pontra juttat, amiből kifolyólag Kossuth kirúgta és árulónak hívta Görgeyt. Persze ez szubjektív téma, én szerintem ez egy fontos szempont volt a szabadság hatc bukásában. De szívesen meghallgatom a te álláspontodat.
@@marikmark4597 Szerintem beszélgetni meg okoskodni egy adott témában, akkor érdemes, ha legalább általános iskolai szintű ismereteid vannak, de nálad ez is hiányzik. Kossuth meg Görgey között több ponton is volt feszültség, ezek egy része politikai természetű volt más része meg katonai. Buda visszavétele az pont nem volt ilyen, ebben olyan nagy vita nem volt, Bécs elfoglalására reális esély nem mutatkozott, teljesen reális döntés volt Buda visszavétele, nem ezen vesztek össze. Haynau támadása, meg az orosz intervenció után abban volt ellentét, hogy Kossuth, a csapatokat Szegedre rendelte, Görgey pedig Komáromnál akarta összpontosítani az erőket, hogy Haynaut megverje. Ezt a saját csapataival megpróbálta, de két komáromi csata után végül engedett Kossuth nyomásának és elindította a csapatait délre, amivel feladta az országot gyakorlatilag, de ez volt a parancs. Még a déli összpontosítás is összejöhetett volna, ha a Dembinski a déli magyar csapatokkal nem Temesvár felé vonul, ahol aztán - már Bem vezetésével - a magyar csapatok döntő vereséget szenvednek, anélkül, hogy egyesülni tudtak volna Görgey seregével. Ez után Kossuth diktátornak nevezte ki Görgeyt, aki letette a fegyvert Világosnál, mert nem akarta vágóhídra vezetni a seregét, Kossuth meg az emigrációból mocskolta őt. Röviden ennyi, bár nem tudom mennyi ment át belőle. A lényeg, hogy nem Buda elfoglalásával volt a gond.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but do you follow Greek Orthodoxy?
Yes!
Nyet
He does, i can confirm
I see no stupidity in this question
@@idie6606 yeah lol, it's just a simple question
Love your work and my suggestion: To stick with the Austria-Hungary theme here, what if Austria won the Austro-Prussian War and United with the South German States? Happy Halloween! 🎃👍
Thanks a lot for the support and the suggestion! They really mean a lot
@justagreekhistorian No problem. 👍 Keep up the great work. Peace ✌🏻
Amazing work, keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Thanks For this! Love your content ❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks a lot mate!
There wasn't ever a major slovak uprising during the revolution. The reason is hungary managed to implement the emancipation of serfs in Upper Hungary, while they were slowed down in their efforts in Transylvania and the turkish borders so the pro Habsburg nobles could hold emancipation as a bribe for the masses.
I mostly used two mapping videos as sources for the territories which is why they looked big on the map, but in reality the Slovaks weren't really a major force within the country tbh
@@justagreekhistorian The only major "slovak" force was the upper danube army wich was mostly made of slovak consrcripts (After the disastrous attack on Vienna) and was commanded by General Görgely Artúr.
Great video, your pronunciation is very good
Thank you so much!
Definitely worth the wait, a quick suggestion what if the warsaw uprising succeeded?
Hold up, that's actually a decent idea? I haven't heard anyone actually talk about it
@@justagreekhistorian Yeah as a pole it has been in my head for a bit as if we somehow succeeded and liberated Warsaw it could cause an escalation causing more uprisings around the country causing us to not be left as a soviet puppet. This could have occurred if we obtained lend lease from the allies at that moment or if the soviets came to our aid (the later would never happen.) The iron curtain could have shifted therefore having Warsaw divided and not berlin? Intern having a very shifted cold war dynamic
This may be my next video, as Poland is a really loved country, people are likely to click
@@justagreekhistorian wow I was not expecting this today 😳
Yeah also, the soviets would be kinda shocked at the sight since they intentionally left the uprising to die since they wanted the territory great idea lol.
Congrats for
4k subs brother!
This timeline explains just how hungary and lombardo veneto were important for austria, and how without those, iw would have collapsed into misery.
Also it changed the german unificaton A LOT, and possibly even our history until today ,sice ww1 would have never happened, or if it happened, in a very different way.
Since it started 20 years earlier , many technologies like tanks would have never invented.. maybe,
All of this, because hungary managed to become indipendent.
Indeed indeed! Thanks a lot mate, this milestone has been really refreshing for me to see
As an Italian, I would like to tip my hat towards all of the Hungarians watching this video.
Thank you a lot for the help in the Risorgimento🇮🇹🤝🇭🇺
This needs a part 2. explore what an earlier ww2 turns out, what countries go communist, etc.
If more people suggest a part 2, I will certainly make one!
I LOVE HUNGARY 🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺
What if Riga's plans for a united Aimos peninsula succeeded?
I plan to discuss it with Rewriting History to see if we could do some kind of collab with this idea!
@justagreekhistorian dude your editing and script have upgraded to such an extent, I would consider it " piece of cake " for you tbh . Keep up the good work though, this one slapped
@@sotirisl9388 Thanks a lot mate!
I already saw a comment about this topic but what if venice formed italy by winning wars against the Habsburgs or Ottomans, consolidating ownership of greece and maybe forming a union with them like hungary and austria? Kind of unrealistic but it seems like a fun idea
Interesting, though it most certainly wouldn't be anything like our timeline, unless Venice managed to inspire an early form of nationalism which is possible I guess? For sure sounds fun though, I'd add it to the list!
@@justagreekhistorian I wouldn't really say nationalism, more like conquest of the other Italian states by force and I feel like it would be easier to consolidate control over the weak Italian states than the Habsburgs, Ottomans, Spanish or French
great work from Hungary!
Thanks a lot !
Very entertaining and good video with in depth explanations of events following the aftermath of the revolution, Very good video👍.
Thanks!
Great video!
Thanks!
Excelente vídeo, me gustó mucho como fue hecho y plantado, espero más destacados trabajos de ti, un afectuoso saludo desde Uruguay
Yo, thanks a lot for your kind words my friend! Lot of love to Uruguay !
The problem of Hungary in 1848 was that it wanted independence and rights ONLY for the Hungarians and not for the other ethnic groups in their kingdom!!! They wanted the others to continue to be enslaved. For example, the Romanians in Transylvania under the leadership of Avram Iancu fought against the Hungarians in 1848 precisely for this reason, for rights that the Hungarians of Lajos Kossuth and others hungarians did not want to offer them!
Yup exactly, this was a major reason why the revolution failed in our timeline
Finally , an outside RUclipsr ( not Croatian one ) covering Ban Josip Jelačić❤
Of course, he was a really important figure within this whole mess of a revolution
I'm not quite sure if this is how events would play out. Hungary and Germany would both become powerful thanks to the 1848 Revolutions and at the expense of Austria. I think this would make Germany and Hungary natural allies and I don't really see any reason why they would be opposed to each other. I also don't think Germany and Russia would really have any reason to oppose each other, either. In our own timeline, Germany had to choose between Austria-Hungary and Russia, but if there is no Austria, then they can just ally with *_both_* Hungary and Russia. With Hungary instead of Austria-Hungary, a Triple Alliance could actually work, as Hungary wouldn't really need German or Balkanic territories. Another reason as to why Germany and Russia could ally is that the wife of Nicholas I of Russia was the sister of Frederick William IV and William I, so the Russian and German royal families were closely related.
Hmm okay, so that's an interesting possibility, though I still have my reason to go with the timeline that I did
First, I do think that the Hungarians and the Germans would likely at least somewhat oppose each-other, as Hungary holds many territories of German speakers, including Bratislava and some minor territories close to the border
Of course, that's not to say that an alliance is impossible, I just think it is more likely that they'd go against each other
However, my main point is that Germany, similar to Britain would also fear the rise of Russia. The country is so immensely overpowered that if they industrialized then they would be unstoppable
In the short term, an alliance between Germany and Russia could work, but in the long term Germany cannot count on the Russians due to the reasons mentioned earlier
But regardless, I do feel like your suggestion sounds more reasonable and more importantly more fun but that's the direction I took my video on the matter
@justagreekhistorian *Well, but if Germany is afraid of the rise of Russia, then what would make Hungary not afraid of Russia? I find it highly unlikely that Hungary and Germany would go to war over a few German speaking towns. And even if Germany was afraid of Russia, Britain was also afraid of Russia, yet Britain was still on the same side as Russia in the Great War. And if the war happens decades earlier, then Russia wouldn't have as much time prior to the war to industrialise as in our own timeline. It would have been - at least in the short term - in Germany's interest to ally with Russia and Hungary, as it would mean there is no Eastern front for Germany to worry about. Germany can focus on France and Russia can focus on the Balkans and the Middle East. It would be a win-win situation for both of them. I could even see Germany defeating France, then betraying the Russians and launching a surprise attack against them.*
Love vid. Keep up good work
Questions: Did Germany colonized anything?
Did the Berlin Conference happened?
What happened in Africa?
Did Britain Annexed French colonies?
The World War has happened before the Berlin Conference and colonies were very scarce in Africa then
In a hypothetical part 2, I will explore an alternate Berlin Conference
Well, the Berlin Conference wouldn't happen here as this world war starts in 1877, which is before the Conference took place irl
With that being said, I assume that an alternate Berlin Conference could happen following the end of WW1 and would see it being mostly dominated by Germany and Britain
Hungary mentioned!!!!🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
Agreed, Hungary and especially this revolution are very underrated imo
As a Romanian I'm more curious, about what would have happened if Hungary had forced assimilate everyone instead of being greedy/arrogant/having a superior complex, would they ruled half of Europe, or the Western powers would have interfered to stop a superpower from forming in Europe
Wow this is truely a Halloween video
HAHAHAHA I didn't even notice today was Halloween when I posted it 💀
I find the notion of britain giving such support to germany completely unrealistic. Britain was afraid of the german empire of our timeline for their rapid industrialization and millitarization, they would be absolutely horrified of the same state, but this time with the borders of the holy roman empire. We can easily imagine britain joining on the side of france in the franco-prussian war, or at the very least forcing germany to take far less land via mediation. Similairly for the 1st world war, britain would absolutely not support greater german expansion, nor would they support greater russian expansion. They would most likely be a mediator in the peace deal between germany and the 4 nation alliance. They would force germany to give back french lands while only allowing minor russian expansion into german lands, instead russias bountry would come from the balkan. The scenario would end with russia being relatively isolated politically just as they had been up to this point, the french and germans remaining great powers, italy and hungary competing for minor balkan claims and britain as the arbiter of the balance of power.
Disagreed. Historically, Germany and Britain were already quite close, as Britain and Germany both feared the rise of Russia. The alliance plans broke down in turn because of the catastrophic defeat of Russia to the Japanese, which showed the world that the Russians maybe weren't so powerful, and the naval arms race between Germany and Britain
In this scenario, Russia appears way more powerful than they would have actually been because of the incorporation of Galicia and their alliance with Hungary. Britain would be much more concerned about the rise of this Russia, which, since the world war starts in 1877, wouldn't have had a similar catastrophic defeat like in our timeline
Germany, then, would still be in its infancy and wouldn't have had the time to militarize to the same extent that they did in our timeline, and while adding Austria is greatly beneficial, it wouldn't appear as a major threat on the surface
Sure, Britain may not be as enthusiastic to support the Germans as they did the Entente historically, they'd still want to out as to try to preserve the balance of power. Germany would also lack any significant colonies as the Berlin Conference would yet to take place, while their navy would be nowhere near to the point of challenging the British one
While we know in our timeline the immense strength of the German Empire and the problems that plagued the Russian one, the people living in this world don't
Russia appears strong and Germany appears much weaker. In the peace deals, I can see the Anglo-German alliance to break down, as Germany refuses to leave any territory mentioned in the video. Britain is forced to accept, but their alliance would be destroyed and would firmly place Britain in the Entente camp in a follow up war
I hope this message helps you understand what my thought process for making the sides the way I did in the video
Again, I am not an actual historian and I may have made some major mistakes, but overall this alliance structure just seem pretty logical in my opinion
@justagreekhistorian The reason why this friendship would not happen in this timeline is primarily because germany directly annexed the richest half of a former great power. Sure, at the start they would not be as strong, but remember that this state is created on the basis of prussia, and army expansion would be rapid. I can agree that perhaps britain would be more cautious and curious before the franco-prussian war, but after it britain would be
absolutely against this alliance. Besides, there is a much more likely chance for russia to ally germany in this timeline just as bismark (which would still be in power) would have hoped. Russia can easily concede hungary re-entering the german sphere, and for that germany would easily concede the dismantling of the ottomans in favor of russia.
This is why britain would never truly support either side, instead they would sit on the sidelines and forcing both germany and russia to only make marginal gains against their respective enemies to preserve the balance of power.
For that matter i can easily imagine france and britain teaming up with hungary and italy in order to bolster them and maintain the balance of power. Hungary would replace austro-hungary as the central european/balkan giant, and italy would be a moderate power with small balkan claims and a more lenient and friendly policy would be taken in favor of their colonial projects.
With this scenario in mind i can see the war being avoided in 1877 with brittish mediation, leading to an almost identical outcome as it had been in the russo-turkish war of our timeline. If germany and russia do not directly ally, then the 1st world war is completely avoided as russia would never stand up against half of europe alone, and if they do ally germany then i have no doubt of a russo-german victory in the great war of 1914.
@@majmunjole8570 Well, yeah, my decision to make Hungary a Russian ally seems kinda odd now. Still, I don't really think Britain will ally with France directly, likely remaining neutral or at least be moderately leaning towards Germany - should a Franco-Russian alliance take shape
In the Franco-German war Germany didn't take the important iron rich territories, they just annexes a bit further into France proper, which wouldn't be all that much of a blow towards France industrially speaking
But then again, if Russia allies with Germany then I have no doubt that Britain will support France immediately and a war could end up breaking out much sooner, as should the war happen around the same time as it did historically, Russia and Germany are going to win
Hungary did destroy austria but they asked the russians for help
Thank you for doing this. (Yes, I am a hungarian). A couple of ideas, if I may:
whaf if the white army won the russian civil war?
What if the SA wasn't purged (basically if the night of the long knives never happened)
What if the 1956 hungarian revolt succeeded?
Glad you liked it mate! Your ideas are great too, I will try to cover them some time too
@justagreekhistorian thank you
The fact that the Austrians promised autonomy to the minority groups already, while the Hungarians were openly opposed to that due to their ego, makes this unrealistic. Croatia-Slavonia was firmly on the Austrian side due Hungary's desire to annex them fully and also supported Serbian Voivodina in their independence as well so the only way Hungary could've secured it's southern and eastern borders would've been if it lost, or a bit more unrealistically, if it supported Croatia-Slavonia's, Serbian Voivodina's and Transylvania's independence and if the Russians didn't invade past Galicia.
Yes, I am aware of the Hungarian ego here and my thought process is simple. The autonomy of the different minorities would be a temporary solution as in practice, they would still be ruled by Budapest from behind the scenes, while Magyarization policies would be enforced on said territories as to forcefully make all of the inhabitants Hungarian. This of course requires a lot of hindsight from the Hungarian parliament, but I think it could be achieved
Heres an Idea: What if more powers joined in on the Crimean War?
(Mainly Sweden-Norway, Prussia & the Hapsburgs)
Interesting idea, I will add it to the list of my scenarios!
Nice video but I dont think there would be trench warfare. Some of technologies weren't invented yet like mmg (maxine gun), others like breechloaded guns were novelty
Kinda true yeahhh
What if Spain remained in Italy?
althist video idea: what if Ea-nasir sold real copper?
I could do a joke video on this hahahaha great concept
Personally,i have made a what if scenario of if 1848 collapsed Austrian Empire
Basically,even though it is not full video or anything,just few seconds mapping sequence,it is 1848 if Russia did not help Austria and if they+Prussians took to support Hungary either politically or even by fighting Austria themselves
The end of war essentially makes Russia annexes parts of Austrian empire north-eastern to Border of Hungarian kingdom,
Bohemia becomes indenpendent,
Italian states annex lands to Istria
Austria is slightly bigher than irl since they get to keep Slovenia and whole Tyrole
Hungary has two autonomous regions-Serbian Vojvodina and Croatia
Then there is quick rebbelions in Ottomans too,which with help of hungary succeed in Serbia and Bosnia,which get indenpendent
Prussia also in the war helps Hungary and is allowed to unite North Germany,but has to ceed some lands to France
On the note of South Germany,i see it possible in scenario i made that Bavaria unifies the southern states,being closely allied to Britain,fearing agression by Prussia and France
And then everyone looks at Russia,who now has no rival to properly fight it at all,besides Prussia (North Germany) and Hungary
I see it possible that peace would last much easier since there would be many more buffer states of medium strenght that would combined overwhelm the more powerfull ones if they tried something
(Hungary+Prussia in case of Russian expansionist ideas allied with someone else,likely UK to counter Russian plans and keep them contained,
or German southern states being buffer between Prussia and France,that would ally with one if other tries something)
Interesting, I think this is pretty similar to what I did on the whole, though the details are quite different
@justagreekhistorian read the edited one please
If it gets applied cuz YT is acting drunk
Also great video
@@PROUD_TITOIST Yeah I have no idea wtf is going on with youtube anymore, like they'd delete comments made by anyone, even by me on my own videos?? Anyways, interesting scenario, can you send the video by any chance? Also thanks for the support
@justagreekhistorian i can send you a post,since there is no video besides 12 seconds of mapping i made which is 3fps
@@PROUD_TITOIST Ah okay, sure
The ottomans would likely not gain any territory as the british sought to limit ottoman expansion in europe, though they might receive border territories in the kaukas
I mean, in the video the Ottomans literally gained nothing and in fact lost Romania as a result of the war
I agree that the Ottomans are not going to expand in Europe whatsoever but in the Caucasus they may be rewarded minor border territories
I've always wanted to hear English with a Greek accent. 😅 I am proud of the Byzantine (Greek)-Hungarian heritage, such as dynastic marriages, or even the fact that the foundation of the Hungarian holy crown is of Byzantine origin. Thanks for the video :)
No problem mate, glad you liked it!
My only criticism is that Hungary should've fell sooner, from what I understand they refused to reform when it came to agriculture, industrialization, so many reforms that Auatria tried to implement that would've made the empire better were rejected every single time, so I feel like in this scenario, Hungary should've fell sooner realizing that because Austria and Germany had modernized so much they would've been completely overwhelmed. Not even the Russian empire would've saved them.
Well, in this timeline, Hungary would have pushed their own reforms too, that was a major aim of the revolutionaries after all, but regardless of that, the timing of Hungary falling doesn't really change that much imo
Idea: what if the emperor of Austria-hungary chose for the HRE instead of its own empire (so he will be forming the German empire instead of Prussia)?
bro made a video clearer to understand then my teachers tried to make it AND IM HUNGARIAN
Hahahaha yeah, school is often really hard to understand, I am glad that you found this video coherent!
could you tell me where you got your source from? I desire to learn more
Mostly wikipedia and Living Ironically in Europe's video, as well as asking for details from ChatGPT
Great vid inspires me to start arguments with Austrians
Hahahahaha truee
Πολύ ωραίο βίντεο, όπως πάντα. Μίας και γιορτάσαμε την 28η Οκτωβρίου, θα σου προτείνω ένα σενάριο που έχω σκεφτεί. Αν ο Μεταξάς δεν πέθανε (και συνεπώς δεν άφηνε βρετανικές δυνάμεις να έρθουν στην Ελλάδα) τον Ιανουάριο του '41 και απεκρούαμε όπως και έγινε την εαρινή επίθεση των Ιταλών, αντί να εισβάλουν οι Γερμανοί επιβάλουν μια συνθήκη ειρήνης μεταξύ ημών και Ιταλών. Και αυτοί θα εισέβαλαν στην ΕΣΣΔ νωρίτερα και εμείς δεν θα χάναμε τόσους ανθρώπους (και δεν θα είχαμε και τον εμφύλιο) και οι Ιταλοί θα άλλαζαν στρατόπεδο νωρίτερα (ίσως να παρέμενε η μοναρχία).
Ενδιαφέρον ιδέα, όμως δεν ξέρω κατά πόσο τοις εκατό θα άρεσε στον μέσο θεατή αυτού του καναλιού
Αλλά μπορεί στο μέλλον να το διερευνήσω
@justagreekhistorian ισχύει, ωστόσο μπορείς να φτιάξεις έναν εναλλακτικό β παγκόσμιο όπου να το στριμωξεις και αυτό. Σκέψου ότι εάν δεν εισβάλανε οι Γερμανοί η Γιουγκοσλαβία θα συνέχιζε να είναι μοναρχία και να υποστηρίζει την ιδέα ότι όλοι οι νότιοι Σλάβοι είναι ίδιοι (το αντίθετο από ότι έγινε επί Τίτο), η Βουλγαρία θα παρέμενε και αυτή μοναρχία, οι Ρώσοι θα ήταν πιο αδύναμοι συνεπώς το σιδηρούν παραπέτασμα θα ήταν ανατολικότερα κτλ. Εναλλακτικά κάνε το σορτ ίσα ίσα να χάσουμε εμείς 🤣. Όπως και να χει συνέχισε κάνεις πολύ ωραία βίντεο και μου αρέσουν και οι χάρτες που χρησιμοποιείς.
I don't think that either the mindset of the Archduke or the revolutionary government of Hungary would nesicarely be changed. I'd like to point out that after the defeat of Jelasich he needed to fake a cease-fire with the opposing Hungarian forces and basically use their initial trust to sneak his army out of there towards West and into Austria proper which the Hungarians noticed a bit later and the new national army that defeated him (which was the Hungarian home deffence) started to prossue him, but when they arriaved to the Austrian border they stopped to pounder for a vareity of reasons. You see at this point the Hungarian revolution was more of an uprising than an actual rebellion, and the Hungarian government was more than willing to work with the Emperor and remaine the part of the Empire if their demainds were meet and/or a sutible compromaise had been reached (in otherwords at the start they wanted to reform the empire or at least the Hungarian part not outright leave it).
For this reasion the army deaspite the order of Kossuth (who was increasingly gaining emergency powers in the parlament) coming from Budapest (back the Pestbuda) to go through the border, march on Wienna, link up with the rebelling Austrian revolutionaryes that are currently holding the imperial capital and quickly counter and more than likely much easily crush the remaineing imperial forces (thous forcefully implementing their will) was debeated, ignored, opposed and outright rejectied by the armyes higher leadership lead by the maine general of the Hungarian armed forces Arthur Görgey the de'facto supreme leader of the National Army who was solidly supporting the weuve point that the Hungarian National Guards duty is to defend the Hungarian nation and it's territories and people, and useing those forces offensively in the given curcumstace would be the bastardisation of why they stood for and would be not only disingenious but outright treatorous (little bit late there boddy don't ya' think), since at the start declaration of independence thought not off the table was seen as a sort of last resort by many if not most of the Hungarian leadership.
Why are the borders in the Baltics always so weird in alternate history scenarios lol
Cool video 👍
I have no idea how to Baltic, I just draw stuff that make sense to me, though the Polish border def didn't help with this one
Anyways, thanks for the support
What could have been interesting was the factual presentation of the events, considering that it was a bloody war lasting one and a half years, about which the world knows nothing. Instead, we got a speculation about what would have happened if Hungary had won. By the way, it is not true that this event is underrated in Hungary. March 15 is our biggest national holiday. It is also stupid that the result of the revolution would have been a republic. Only the Habsburgs were deprived of the throne, the form of government did not change. These are just a few comments. I know that as a foreigner it is difficult to look into this further, but I think the Hungarian heroes of the freedom struggle deserve more.
First of all, this channel follows the niche of alternate history and if you don't like that, that's fine! There are many other channels who can go much more in depth into the revolution than what I could have ever done. I just gave a quick six minute recount so I can begin the video
Secondly, the revolution is indeed underrated - outside of Hungary
This may sound dumb, as this is a Hungarian revolution, so it would logically follow that it would be unknown outside of the country but no! The Hungarian revolution of 1956 is very well known across the world, as well as most of Hungary's history, except this one revolution which happens to be extremely important in shaping the Hungarian national identity. Thus it can be classified as an underrated revolution
What if Switzerland was partitioned after the Treaty of Vienna was signed
How is there no views but a comment
I have no idea, but hey thanks for commenting anyways
awesome vid!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I don't think Hungary would've joined any sides. We had a good relationship with the British and the Americans as and with the Germans. I think Hungary would've stayed neutral for as long as possible. We had nothing to gain with the Balkans we already have a minority "problem" I don't think adding more would be a good idea. But it's a great video! Thank you for covering Hungary!
Yeah, it's also possible Hungary doesn't join any side, but imo that doesn't necessarily change all too much and I feel like them joining the Russians is more interesting. With that being said, the reason why I chose that way is because I find it likely that the Hungarian government would view securing Romania as a top priority
The end-goal would be to split the state back into Wallachia and Moldavia and install puppet governments in each state as to start a magyarization process on these states too, preventing the Romanians from ever challenging Hungary's control over Transylvania
Anyways, thanks a lot for the support, it means a lot!
@justagreekhistorian I know you needed to make the story interesting and it was good too! Keep up the good work!
If this happens to Austria I think they would have no excuse to search for the creation of grossdeutschland, the only thing that kept them against it were their non-German holdings, now this wouldn’t be the case anymore.
Wrote this before watching the video 😅
I belive Germany would take the Burgenland and Bratislava from hungary, as they were more or less entriely german at this point in history, while beeing part of Hungary.
Possible, if I make a part two I will make sure to note that
Why would they?????
@@kuro1132
Maybe prevent magyarisation. I could imagen a discontent in this regions at the end of the war and a desire of the Population to join a german Nation. An other posibilty could be forced autonmy for All german minorities in hungary.
As for the industrieal reasons.
The Burgenland is rich in Iron so it could be a great asset for german Industrie.
The anexation of Bratislava could hinder the development of slovakia and therefore weaken Hungary.
'At this point'-Always has been, more like-Ostmark existed before Hungary.
I'm not sure about Bratislava though.
@@gabork5055
In 1919 70% of Bratislavas Population was either german or Magyar. As for the "at this point": I ment compared to now a dayes, cause as you probably know was the Burgenland split at Trianon. So today a large part is german, but Sopron for example isn't.
Part 2 plz
Maybe some day
Just gona add, when Jelačić invaded Hungary he reclaimed Međimurje. And he and parliment of croatia put some points but they were rejected:
Most notleble the one that croatia would be unified with Dalmatia. Sadly that did nit come to happend amd Croatia only unified with Dalmacija 1st time after ww1 (State of Serbs, Vroats and Slovense), 2nd time close to the end of ww2. And only after ww2 Dalmacija became croatian on paper.
Sadly not independemt but at least we united with Dalmatia
I see, that's interesting
"Reclaimed Medimurje" Medimurje was never yours to begin with
bro should have a 100K subs
One can dream haha, thanks a lot
Im hungarian this video is really great thanks for notmaking fun of our army
No problem mate! I had a real blast making this video
Watching you in 1.25x makes you sounds more fluent
Yeah, just most people like to take it slow which is why I speak in the rate that I do
Finally, one that listens to my suggestions 😂😂😂
What if iran and Afghanistan joined the central powers in 1916
as a greek, love to the kingdom of Hungary. W scenario btw
Glad you liked it mate, thanks a lot!
What if the Orlov Revolt was successful?
Zero chance the Croats join an independent Hungary. They would side with Hungary for their own independent state or side with Austria for their own version of 1867.
Well, with *false* promises of Autonomy, the Croats could be convinced imo
What if the republic of venice never fell?
Well, it technically didn't, as it was annexed by Austria all the way in the Napoleonic wars, and that changing doesn't really change all too much, just a faster unification in Italy
If you mean on the other hand never declined well that could be interesting to talk about
@justagreekhistorian I'd say being annexed does qualify as falling lol. Also the premise is that it never falls so Italy would only be united outside of venice. Also their balkan possessions like dalmatia and Greek Islands would change the local dynamics so it could change a lot
Romanian here:
Why does Romania not gain Bucovina,this is unacceptable,there are no poles there,fix it next time (please do my take this seriously but just give Bucovina to Romania pls)
Wait what? I literally thought I did lmao
If I didn't I am sorry, during the part where they expand into Transylvania I originally wanted to give them Bucovina too, but I may have forgotten, I was really tired when working on the last few slides
that's a great video, i just think that Germany would annex german speaking border regions of Hungary.
Also, i wonder why there was no conflict between denmark and Germany. in 1864 they wanted to take Schleswigian autonomy away which led to the rise up of Germans in Denmark. It's highly unlikely that germany would ignore that, so did Denmark kept Schleswig Autonomous, not even daring to touch it, or did they listen to the rebells?
@@JustAToeBeeWell, I said no major wars, I just wouldn't really consider a war over Schleswig worth talking about
Well, I mentioned that no major war would take place, I just wouldn't consider a Danish-German war over Schleswig relevant in a video talking about how Hungary gaining independence in 1848 would cause a World War in 1877
?????? 😂😂😂😂😂
This would be a great HOI4 mod
Agreed
Cool video. Names butchered as much as possible, but I find it funny.
Yeah I tried my hardest lmfao
good ending
What if Franco restored the monarchy in 1940
Why wouldnt turkey and iran gain land in the caucasus
Oops
Yeahh I may have forgotten that front existed whatsoever 💀
Okay I was kinda tired when writing this script and I had a lot of inconsistencies with it
realistically they wouldn't lol
@@yazovgaming No no, he has got a point, Iran can take Baku and the Ottomans can move the border just slightly more up
This strengthens the British quite significantly
Hungary never realy made an expansionist policy.
So it's doubtful that it'll ally with Russia or even join it's war.
In this early WW1 scenario Hungary would still join to the central powers or remain neutral. Why? Because Russia has expansionist plans which threatened the eastern and south borders.
This is also the reason why the Habsburgs who's wanted to stabilize their country annexed Bosnia. To prevent the Serbians (supported by Russia) to expand and form a new empire.
Also the Balkanic groups were rebelled against the Ottomans, so the Ottoman empire would lose those territories anyway.
To an independent Hungary the primary goal would be to secure a stability not to expand it's land. Therefore it would probably support Serbian and Romanian groups to fight independence, as those may treat Hungary as a helpful ally, and work as independent bufferzones. Same with a Polish revolution. But would also send military support to either the Czech independence war, (as the Czech republic would be a buffer state against a united Germany) or the Habsburgs to keep their throne in Austria in that weakened state (I doubt this scenario, BUT it would be economically and in a military point profitable).
Rare hungarian W if they would have done that
Χαχα άκουσα την προφορά σου και σκέφτηκα "Α, αυτός μπορεί να είναι Έλληνας". Μετά είδα το όνομα του καναλιού σου και κατάλαβα😂
Χαχαχα τέλειο
one of best althist tubers
Thank you so much
that would have sucked
I agree lmao, I am a Habsburg supporter
Scared of a bozgor planet aye.
@@justagreekhistorian my profile picture says it all
@@JanosBanics it should be an independent Hungary with it's pre Trianon borders but with a Habsburg king
POLAND MENTIONED RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Video idea: What if Habsburgs won the war of Polish succesion placing the Habsburg monarch instead of a Swedish one
EDIT: Also the map of Hungarian ethnicities is wrong - it presented the Transilvania as having small Romanian population and most of the area was not populated but that's simply wrong and it was a propaganda move from Hungary trying to claim that entire Transilvania is actually mostly Hungarian with not much Romanians
Yes, that's exactly the goal of that image, Hungarian propaganda
If you pay attention, during that part I was talking about how the ethnic groups would be magyarized and when it comes to that policy, that is the most popular map associated with the concept
Oh also, your scenario sounds really interesting, thanks a lot 👍
@@justagreekhistorian I just wanted to leave this as some people may think its accurate
@titanics.o.s2101 Oh yeah absolutely
@@titanics.o.s2101source?
There is nothing wrong with the red map, just because you cannot understand the schematics and methodology behind why it was made (which is not just Propaganda btw) that way does not make it wrong.
great scenario
Hey guys EveryFriend, Hungary will I think should intoned named "Austrian-Hungarian Republic" wants declared independence is A Republic from Austria-Hungary and like a why Hungary are have Soviet or not?, but so they called "Austrian-Hungarian Republic" is 1918s for defeating Austria-Hungary’s Empire , Austrian-Hungarian Republic has still Have "AntiMonarchist and AntiOttoman" is 1918s, Czech Republic will I think should intoned named "Czechian-Slovak Republic", so why Slovakia a have Soviet or not?, I never a but like by Soviet Union of Slovaks Soviet is called name, I like but since intoned called name "Sultanate of Slovakia" is part of Ottoman since 1683, but calling "Sultanate of Slovakia" is a part of Ottoman’s Vilayet/Provinces are history, so I but Slovakia a have still Sultante is looked like Southwest Asia has still sultanate (Sulawesi) in 1700s are history, Czechian-Slovak Republic has declared independence is a republic from Austria-Hungary’s Empire!, Slovakia is so why Slovakia a have Soviet has calling name or not? In 1918s are history!,
Slovakia has still Slovak Soviet Republics for since 1918/19s, Slovak Soviet Republic are friend gets alliance with USSR!
Enjoy, Edit: thx for a much 10k likes! 👍
Hungary is *hungary* for austria
💀
Algorithm
Thanks!
Yeah, i'm sure greece would get an increase of 200-300% in territories (a country not even part of the war!!!!), while Hungary, who would probably be a really small part of the war, would lose 60-70% of it's territory in 1 war and then you say it's the least:)
Not to mention, Hungary would very very likely ally itself with Italy and, Great Britain and Ottomans than with Russia or France LMAO. Like this doesn't even make any sense. It's literally historically proven that Hungarians had a lot better relationship with the Sardinia Piedmontese than with Russians or French...
Hungary had a large number of Romanian and Serbian and other slavic population on the southern part of it's country and basically they were oppressed by Hungary. The ottomans had the same, they had a lot of slavic people oppressed in their country. Hungary would have benefitted from keeping those territories under Ottoman suppression than those countries getting freed or getting those territories, because it would just mean even more serbian/romanian people would live there.
Who tf said Greece would expand after the war lmao? Greece wasn't even part of the Great War as per the timeline of the video? Plus, Hungary didn't lose almost anything and the most significant parts they lost were some Transylvanian territories which were Romanian majority
Also, no it wouldn't benefit Hungary to keep Romania under the Ottoman thumb, during that time, Romania was practically independent in all but name
Allowing them to get independence brings up a lot of claims on Transylvania which is just unacceptable to Hungary
@ you must be a troll. I literally said Hungary would not benefit from an independent Romania LMAOOO they would’ve 100% preferred, if Romania stayed under Ottoman oppression.
@@davidtallian8116 Ottoman oppression ??? The Ottomans didn't even have an army in the region? And by 1877 Romania basically acted as if they were independent
They only officially became independent after the Russo-Turkish war of 1877 yes, but de facto, Ottoman rule over the region had ended long ago. You are the one getting lmao'd here
MAGYAR ORSZÁG