Black Velaryons: Why This is A Good Idea
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- Опубликовано: 26 окт 2024
- There are a couple of great ways that Black Velaryons can work with the canon - and not just 'work,' but make both Corlys and the story overall more interesting. I will tell you all about it in this video!
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NOTE: any comments with even a **whiff** of racism or right-wing world-salad bullshit about ‘wokeness’ or virtue signaling will either be removed or ridiculed, per my prerogative. That sort of thing isn’t welcomed here. Thank you, carry on.
EDIT: "Your responsibility as a channel owner is to create a space where people can engage with the subject matter, have a good time, be themselves, and not have to dredge through racist comment pollution. That's how you actually create the conditions for speaking freely ie free speech." From a friend. This is the point exactly.
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I really appreciate how you're taking a hard stance against these assholes. Keep doing what you're doing, and I am excited to see what you have in store for us in the future 👍
I'm so glad that you're not having at all. Like, at all...! RUclips is already toxic enough and it makes your content, comment sections, chats so much more enjoyable without these neck bearded dudes, who call themselves the silent majority. When in fact, they're the never shut up minority that's just very loud..
Again, thank you for being this principled on this topic!
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@@Cussy69_420 yeah you know they want to turn every tv show and movie into their culture war proving ground and I’m just not here for it. Simple as that. They spread their filth everywhere they can. Not on my page though.
Noble marriage was all about sealing political alliances. The summer islands have a stable monarchy and nobility system. This wouldn't be some casual fling with a summer islander it would be a rather normal noble arranged marriage, but only a house heavily involved in maritime trade would be interested in it as they are the only ones that gain from it. A marriage without gains is a lost opportunity and thus has an opportunity cost in medieval marriages for both the summer island nobles and westeros nobles so maintaining profitable trade deals makes it a good opportunity for a house focused on trade.
@@tokendaley3218 TV adaptation. The summer isles are a formidable naval power and top notch sailors in the books.
He’s faaaabulous. The moment he appeared on screen, it just worked. I find it to blend perfectly, all the actors were so well chosen
Agreed!!!
This is why i love GRR, he was thoughtful about each race and population. It wasn't about diversity it was about reflecting a deep world full of complex people and interactions. Diversity is just a natural outcome of humanity.
Absolutely! Love those silvery white dreadlocks! ❤
Somebody needs to give the casting director a raise. Every actor is perfect.
It wouldn’t make sense to look at a medieval inspired fantasy world through the lense of modern racism. Discrimination in a historical sense was more based on culture, on whether someone was foreign. The Roman were the same race as the Germans yet the Germanic tribes were seen as barbaric savages.
There were also black Romans too. Septimus Severus was noticeably dark skinned and born in Libya in a Roman province and he became emperor. It also kind of makes sense that a continent spanning polity would have people that don't look exactly the same on it. Look at Asia, Africa, and South America. All of them have populations that are very diverse in appearance, skin tone, hair and eye color, etc.
@@danieldaw1778 further in ancient history, Aethiopia (Ethiopia) was allied to Troy during the Trojan War. King Memnon fought against the Greeks but fell to Achilles. There is a lost epic dedicated to him that was called Aethopis, it's chronologically after the Illiad. "According to Quintus Smyrnaeus, Memnon said himself that he was raised by the Hesperides on the coast of Oceanus. Memnon dwelling on the western Ocean and his father being driven there would make him the son of dawn (the east) as in the son of Troy." His father is believed to have been from Troy.
Race is more or less a cultural construct. Romans saw the blue eye, blondes as savages as opposed to their Olive skin and brown eyes and hair
Soo nationalism...
@@danieldaw1778 Septimius Severus may not have been white for modern standards, but nor he was black according to modern standards. At most, he would have kinda looked like a Middle Eastern/Northern African of modern standards. But the main problem is that all these are modern standards. The continuos applying of modern standards to the past is sickening to me. Yes, the Romans noticed skin colour, but they had not a system of races based on skin colour and certainly they do not have a concept of racial superiority based on skin color. The ancient world was certainly a discriminatory place, but discrimination was mainly cultural: "the foreign culture with its foreign gods and language and laws is bad" kinda thing. Now, it's only logical that an Empire that stretched across three continents would have had a lot of different colours inside of it. But stop acting like it is a big deal. It was not. It is according to modern standards, and applying modern standards in the way we look at the past is sickening. Also, the Romans never conquered lands inhabited by a majority of blacks (according to the modern standard of black), so that colour would have been a very small minority, present mostly in the African provinces. Black present in the other provinces probably would have not likely been generals or senators, but most likely servants or even slaves, at most merchants. I'm sorry but as far as we know historically it is like that. Middle Eastern/Northern African's colours were more present and those people also became governors and literates and even Emperors. But that was probably not the case with plain blacks. So, if in the future I will see a black roman general commanding armies in Britannia in some film, I reserve my right to say "That's bullshit" without considering me racist
Oh, I like the idea that Corlys was the greatest sailor ever because he could combine seafaring prowess from two seperate cultures. It’s like imagining how good Sarella Sand must be at using poisonous arrows…
That point was great
I like that it made the Strong bastard plot so much more obvious. It added more depth by transforming it from being an unspoken rumour to being an obvious and unavoidable truth that the king stubbornly refuses to see.
I might be wrong, but the Valyrians that favored bloodline purity were the Dragon Lords. I don’t remember House Velaryon being dragon riders, just classified as Valyrians
Both the daughter and son of Corlys ride dragons.
Not all Valyrians were dragon lords.
@@petrmaly9087 Because Rheanys is their mother. Their children are half Targaryen.
Addam Velaryon was a dragon rider though, and he may or may not have recent Targaryen blood.
I thought the Valyrians taught the Targareons how to ride dragons
If people are concerned ab Corlys being "too black" despite having one white parent, take this into consideration: "Daenerys Targaryen's inbreeding coefficient is 0.375. Charles ii, the last spanish Habsburg, who was impotent, drooled, mentally distabled and could barely walk, had a coefficient of 0.254."
Why am I laughing 😂
Is a coefficient of 1 like, 10 generations of sibling offspring?? 👁👄👁
@Bvbs he mean that you can fuck off with aCtUalL GeNeTics cuz if that would be really the case Daenerys would be a fucking mess of a person...
@Bvbs The seed is strong! The seed does leg day!
That Martin said genes work differently to real life in ASOIAF
Also not all mixed race people are perfectly beige people. Some come out leaning more looking like one race over the other.
Another (practical) advantage: it makes them more distinguishable. I don't know if other people have this as well, but I personally always found it very hard to distinguish all these Targaryen and Valyrians. Because there are so many, because their names are often very similar and sometimes even literally the same (Aegon), etcetera. I'm hoping that having the Velaryons played by black actors, will make the show more easy to follow.
Right? The Targs have maybe seven names between them, and that's not even including the dragons! People had a hard enough time when it was only Dany - to this day it's a coin toss whether the people I know IRL who genuinely enjoyed the show and stuck with it to the (stupid) bitter end can get her name right or just give up and call her "Khaleesi".
honestly, thats probably why they did it lmfao. Film and tv think more about these stuff more than we think.
@@godofchaoskhorne5043 dude i wasnt thinking the same shii
@@godofchaoskhorne5043 bro WHAT. That isn't nearly the samething XD. Why are you comparing people with objects?
But the point is, they are the same. Clothing can be distinguishing factor, hence all the colours and banners that are so important in-universe.
I think it was a really good decision. As someone who hasn’t read the books, I wouldn’t be able to tell who came from what family. It’s already kind of confusing.
Usually I am for keeping the original races of characters but, Valyria was close to the summer isles, so even in lore it kinda makes sense that there would be darker skinned valyrians, ofcourse the actor playing Corlys killed it so I was totally supportive immediately, it took me 10 minutes to find it extremely cool.
@@siddharthbirdi also black dudes with silver dreads just looks badass
tbf, even in fire and blood there isnt really any mention of the velaryons' skin color, or that all valerians were white. its just not mentioned, and probably done bc grrm had different "races" (how we see it, though idk if would be considered the same in old valyria) in his mind when he created those house anyway
@@siddharthbirdi Yeah. Valyrians aren't really native to Valyria either, they migrated there during (barely) recorded history. So it can easily be justified that the white Valyrians arrived from the north overland, and the black Valyrians arrived from the south via ship. (This would also explain why the Velaryons aren't dragonlords, but have always been in charge of the Targaryen Navy.
Oh you are gonna appreciate this change much more in episode 6. Ties directly into plotline. Love the dreads on the Velaryons. Very badass
In medieval Europe, it was common practice to squire or otherwise train with your maternal uncle. Which in Corlys' case would be cool as hell. Imagine he spent a couple of his teenage years learning the ways of swan ships. That would make a ton of sense!
It actually says so in the book!
"It was traditional for the sons of the seahorse (the sigil of House Velaryon) to be given a taste of a seafarer's life when young, but no Velaryon before or since ever took to shipboard life as eagerly as the boy who would become the Sea Snake. He first crossed the narrow sea at the age of six, sailing to Pentos *with* *an* *uncle* ." [emphasis mine]
Wait, why only the Maternal and not the Paternal Uncle? Genuinely curious?
@@thalmoragent9344 I believe it was to keep family relations tight. Women were effectively given away to their husbands, so there's some good reasons for them to try and keep the kids invested in their maternal relations, and vice versa. It makes your web of alliances bigger and not just patrilineal families fighting each other.
@@thalmoragent9344 because your mom’s brother is always the bad ass of the family! 😂 or it just seems that way?
@@thalmoragent9344 because your mom’s brother is always the bad ass of the family! 😂 or it just seems that way?
I suppose that their blackness adds to the magical aspect of Valyrians. White, silver hair is innately unnatural.
I don't know why the Valyrian characters in the TV shows don't have purple eyes, though. It takes away from the magic. It adds to the godly aspect of the Valyrians.
Well, one thing to consider is that the track record for contacts on fantasy shows is that they don’t look good. See: the Witcher
I would consider that the unnatural look adds to the mistery of Valyria, but hey, that's just my opinion haha
@@DavidLightbringer Agreed. Realistically done it might be too subtle to be seen save in super-close shots, and if exaggerated would look utterly ridiculous. Neon purple eyes would look bizarre. It's a pretty reasonable accommodation to realism and practicality.
@@xaviermontesdeoca2440 the people of the Solomon island look like this look it up
@@xaviermontesdeoca2440 and the Melanesians also look like this
Why does white hair and black skin look so good together? Like seriously, Storm from X-men’s look is iconic too
Contrast in colors, you cant have a greater contrast then black and white
Contrast
Brown skin but yes color contrast looks nice
Corlys' paternal grandmother is also unknown, so there are potentially two generations of Summer Island ancestry in Corlys' backstory
She was of First men ancestry seeing as Alyssa Veleryon is his aunt in F&B
i think it also helps distinguish targs from valeryons. having so much of the cast be white haired white skinned would just be confusing.
personally i like the decision a lot. corlys is cool as hell.
I was thinking that too, it's kind of a smart choice visually
Ik but it doesnt follow up with the lore itself
Aegon and his sisters are both half targaryen and half valeryon
I mean it looks cool to not make them like the targaryens since they look at the same but atleast change it to only corlys and his brother and not the entire valeryon bloodline
@@willg1088 not mention rogar, Jaehaerys and all of his siblings mother is a valeryon so shouldn't they be black or light skin as well
I wonder if the people complaining that Steve’s skin tone is ‘too dark’ for Corlys to have just one Black parent also complained about the actor for Grey Worm, who is also supposed to be from the Summer Islands, having lighter skin. They probably didn’t even notice that because they don’t care about ‘Whiteness’ in Black characters, only ‘Blackness’ in White characters. Honestly any outrage about this is completely ridiculous. Tbh it doesn’t even need explanation but I like your explanation! :)
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I'll say most of the people I know who complain about this stuff are consistent. They want the person to be 100% like the books.
plus George rr Martin said the unsullied isn't supposed to be a racial thing
I know a guy irl who passes as black and he has a white mom. He’s technically coloured but he really looks like he could have two black parents. Mixed people can just look like anything to be honest. It’s pretty random
Right. Not all mixed people look like Zendaya. Some can favor one race over the other.
While watching interviews with Steve, he seems to have inherited the characteristics of Corlys in that he's successful and doesn't really care about the controversy
Haha 100%
On George's blog, he discusses an idea he'd had to make the invading Targaryens black, but keeping the sort of fantasy style silver hair/purple eyes. With his heavy involvement on the show, I wonder if these Velaryon choices came from that idea.
I was thinking about that. What if, given Martin's idea, they retcon the TV show world so that black is the Valyrian norm and the Targaryens are the outlier? The Velaryons would then be more representative of a standard valyrian. I wouldn't put money on that being how they will go about it but it's at least a slight possibility.
yeah I think the intermarriages are the thing which means it will probably be "just Corlys's mom" who is black - I actually forgot that Alyssa Velaryon was the mother of Boremund Baratheon, whom they've cast as white on the show.
I always linked dragonblood with tar-black, but I read the 13th&15th century 'Song of Kudrun' as a child, and reread it lately and there it is explictly stated that the heroes Sigmund and his son Sigfrid were black skinned, because they had bathed in Dragon-blood and the dragonmagic soaked into them like tar.
Because of this I expected the Targaryens to at least bleed tar-black, if they didn't look the part, but later excused the lack of Tar in the Garyens, with them after so much blood-mixing being more weirwoodish than dragonish. But this casting brings back my Dragonblood-preconception, and is PERFECT.
@@MagnaMater2 why would a European quote a black man in this song? this doesn't make any sense, if that were the case they wouldn't have been so racist in the future but they were already big fans of their skin
@@uilustra6364 Sigfried in the Kudrunlied follows the topos of the noble and honourable foreigner, that is despised (and killed) for being a stranger, and daring to claim a princess and reaching for a crown. To be tar-skinned and a great warrior makes him stand out in the crowd as 'special' and the focus of envy and hatred.
The 'Lay of Kudrun' was written during the crusades for people that needed international geographical knowledge. It most likely belonged to the widowed german queen Elizabeth of Wittelsbach, whose foremother Agnes of Loon claimed to be a descendant from the Nibelungs as well as from Troy - (and since Aeneas lived a while in Africa also from Africans. - Agnes' court-minstrel Henrik of Veldeke had produced similar international adventure-stories the armenian Saint Servatius that met Attila's huns and ended up bishop in the Netherlands and a version of the Aeneid, that would have knotted in the legend of Troy with frankish Troyes, had he not died ere finishing it.)
The book of Kudrun seems to have been well known in germanic languages, versions of it were far spread - I read it even has a jiddish version found in Kairo. It has an international flair might have been popular with bavarian pilgrims and crusaders and travelling musicians (it has a begging-refrain, whenever a feast is mentioned, it wastes a lot of words on what the lord gave to the minstrels and musicians) is very weird in many aspects: not only talking Harpys from Ireland abducing oriental princesses into their nests, one of them even dragged all the way from India to Ireland.
The Tyrolian book-version has also a renaissance 'editing-problem': it has been found in an deplorable state in a castle and had been copied and partly rewritten on the order of Maximilian I around 1510 - and he employed 'moorish' dancers from Spain in his court, that are clearly depicted as people of African descent. Styling himself as legal heir to the Roman Emperors, Maximilian would have also wanted an international flair in a book he had preserved for his grandchildren, who should reclaim all formerly Roman territories, including northern Africa. (Maximilian himself didn't even manage to get a standing army from his local princes). From about his time came also the first 'people mirrors', that should educate the princes about all the tribes they ruled over, or had borders with, and are extremely uncharming and full of generalisations and preconceptions against European neighbours and emperial subjects. These books are the beginning of racism, once they were printed and spread.
And don't make a mistake about European racism, and back-reflect colonial racism into a time without colonies: European racism in the medieval and renaissance times is mainly a religious racism: if you're a catholic and join the prayers thrice a day, you're in-group, if you are not, you are out-group (and should either be baptized or killed, unimportant if you come from Scandinavia, Lithuania, Arabia or Africa - or are a local Jew or other Heretic). European racism is also tribal and local: It's main enemies are the neighbouring people - in short: all people that don't speak your language, and those live in Europe already in the next valley or across the river.
Valyra is also pretty close to the summer islands, it’s likely they have had contact since ancient times, as soon as they were able to cross the ocean, Valyria would have been one of the first places they landed.
who is to say there were no dark skinned valyrians though?
@@strawbawrri249 well based on their geography and the people who inhabit the areas near valyria, you'd expect the valyrians to be kind of Mediterranean looking at the start
But the empire was supposed to be thousands of years old, so that provides an aeon of time for intermarriages between valyrians and summer islanders
Eventually it would be expected to see loads of black valyrians :)
@@vergil8833 ....wat?
i think its the closes landmass to them... they are cultural sailors... even irl you have examples of stuff like Norse people colonizing north america.... i dont really get your point or tone...
@@vergil8833 actually there was more travel in the medieval period than is generally thought
Some people would have never left their village, but most people would have undertaken long pilgrimages multiple times in their lives.
Pilgrimages were a core part of medieval European culture, a defining element.
People would travel on foot hundreds (or at times thousands of miles) relying on hospitality from locals, hospitals (the original meaning) and sometimes inns if they had money.
On these journeys they would see many places within their home country, or even across Europe and the Levant if they went to the holy land.
Outside of pilgrimages, the common folk of port towns and capitol cities would meet foreign traders and sailors regularly.
The sailors in particular would be well travelled and used to interacting with lots of people from different countries at port.
Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" is an example of contemporary literary evidence
At the time people of all walks of life did pilgrimages it was a regular thing.
@Virgil What a weird hill to die on.
George has already established that children can take almost entirely after one parent rather than being a hybrid. Ned is nothing like either of his brothers, either internally or externally. I suspect he is pretty much entirely Flint. Just as Stannis is unlike either of his brothers, with only the dominance of the Baratheon hair coloration coming from the Baratheon line.
Ned mother was an Flint?
Baratheon men are actually unusually similar to each other, even Stannis. He's thin and austere, yes, but he's still very tall, with striking blue eyes, black hair, strong jaw and stubborn, strong temper and personality (Ours is the Fury, indeed). Pretty much all the Baratheons are like this, from Robert's bastard kids to Orys Baratheon all those centuries ago (though Orys had black eyes; they probably got blue eyes from Argella Durrandon). Not all of them party hard like Robert or Lyonel the Laughing Storm, but they're temperamental dudes who just can't sit out any big event.
If anything it was Renly who kind of sticks out in this family. Most Baratheons were more "iron gauntlet" than "silk glove", as Varys put it.
@@saikeenra I think that in the case of Stannis, a lot of Targ is hidden under the coloration. He has a daughter who has dragon dreams and to whom a giant kneels unbidden, calling her queen.
@@MrVictor1227 That would be Lyarra. I don't think she's ever mentioned by name in the books, but George has confirmed her name and her house.
@@spideregg I'm pretty sure Arya mentions a flint grandmother at some point.
Black Velaryons… Black Valyrians in general make perfect sense because literally everyone from Essos is a variation of tan/brown skin. Couple that with the fact that Valyria ruled over Essos for centuries and was a melting pot of many empires and cultures… it’s weirder that there wouldnt be Black Valyrians
agree
This is my take exactly. It makes sense for anything closer to Essos/summer isles to have more of a darker complexion
Atleast they are not giving a predominantly underground living people known for mining some extra natural skin protection in the form of melanin 👀
At first it didn’t make sense to me But now it do
My great grand father was listed on his WW2 draft card as 'Mulatto'. His skin was probably the same shade as the actor's. He had jet black, fine, wavy hair, and a long, skinny nose. There are dark skinned bi-racial people, more than what most would assume.
Aint no one naming a dark black male in WW2 Mulatto. I'm calling cap.
@@kingslim2870 Lol, how is that cap? I look mixed race, and both my parents are East African. My father, for a fact, is very dark-skinned, and my mother is light skin with no European ancestry. Also, I took a 23 and me and Ancestry DNA test, and my results were 100% Subsaharan African; basically, all of it was from East Africa, North-East Africa and South-east Africa. Also, for the first 7 years of my life, I was super light skin, and around 8 years old, I was pretty dark skin until the age of 15, and now my skin is a mid-light brown colour. My point is that skin tone isn't a big deal, and it's super weird and dumb how human beings fixate on it when we're all the same species with a common ancestor.
I'm half black. My daughter has blonde hair and sky blue eyes and very pale skin that tans during summer beautifully. DNA is a funny thing and does not obey stereotypes.
@@kingslim2870 always the ones that say “ cap” to everything is the most uneducated ones
@@amaracrow0501 Aww, she sounds beautiful. That's like my younger cousin. He's a quarter black, and has pale skin that tans really well and golden streaked curls.
OR maybe the majority and/or entirety of native Valyria was Black and the Targaryen clan became an outlier due to albinism combined with excessive inbreeding. That actually makes more sense given the location and ancient courtship practices
This makes a lot of sense actually.
As far as I know the majority of Valyrian reamnant population (lys,Volantis) are descriept like the Targarians (tall , blonde, pale, purpel eyes. And if we go by the sorounding population they would be mediterranian
Either way its G.R.R Martins decision what color valyrians where, and in the end it dosnt mater
That actually matches the lore. The targs were the only ones that had silver hair in valyria because of inbreeding and blood magic tied to dragons that the valyrians did on them. Valyrians in recent history within the world of asoiaf only have silver hair because they interbred with the remaining targs after the doom of valyria until silver hair and purple eyes became dominant in their genes.
@@bennetplath8781 you know people who suffer from albinism are pale and blonde right? 😬
But albinism doesnt change your features other than the lack of pigment, African albinos look african but lacks pigment, so no it makes no sense.
It would be easier just to say that a group of people came from the south (Or what ever the most sunny) and settled not so long ago, Kinda like how North Africa is today but in reverse.
I hope they explore the culture and aspects of the Summer Islands. Show off the island's famous bows and arrows. Show some political support from the islands to the Velaryons (navy, for example).
Goldenheart Bows and Swan Ships are what help make the Summer Islandsers famed as both some of the best Archers and Sailors in the Asoiaf World.
Yes thanks you people.
I have certainty that the Summer Islands mode of worship is part of them controlling winds.
I really hated how D&D deleted Summer Islanders from the show.
Credit to GRRM doing an African inspired cultured people that I'd wish fantasy settings actually do.
It's going to be amazing if they do!
The Velaryons being black adds to the awe of valyrians and adds to the fact they, along with the targaryens and celtigars, are foreigners to westeros. I believe George said in an interview he almost wishes me made the targaryens black or at least thinks it would've been interesting because it emphasises they are not native to westeros
@@jasonpeters617 🤡🤡🤡
@@jasonpeters617 🤡 CLOWN ALERT 🤡
House Velaryon being of potentially lower status makes sense: Valyria didn't have a fleet. Valyria wouldn't have great admirals, they'd be looked at as base merchants. Even exploration would be primarily a dragon rider's job, not a sailor. So Velaryon & Celtigar being that far out when the Doom happened would be because they were lower status, farther from the capital.
@Bionick Toa exept viscerys said they had the greatest fleet ever.
@@popkhorne5372 Viserys was feeding Dany Targ propaganda. I would paint anything he says as suspect.
Not because it isn't true that Valyria had the greatest fleet, but that we can't know one way or the other if the only source is his mouth.
Having finally watched it, I have no idea why people are still complaining. It really does feel like "woke = brown people" when it comes to fantasy and as a brown person who loves fantasy, it's incredibly disappointing to see how widespread this notion is... Medieval Europe had brown people, Medieval Europe was around by countries of brown people, brown people migrated to Medieval Europe, and Medieval Europe traded with brown people, so I never understood the point of "It's Medieval Europe, of course brown people don't exist!". It makes even less sense in the context of Game of Thrones to complain when we have places like Dorne already and there being several people of other races that exist within the series. Anyways, that's how I feel about this annoying conversation and seeing it be brought up every other week.
There are no acounts of black people migrating to medieval Europe. Theres no point for such a migration because medieval Europe was a shithole at the time being very backward and superstitious. there were just very very few black people in Europe before the 'modern' age. I haven't read up to on it allot but what I do know is that there were small populations of blacks in large cities but those only numbered in the hundreds.
Brown and black are different things and no, there were no black people in Medieval Europe. Even today it's a rare thing to see a black person in Eastern Europe for example (and those in the West arrived only after the colonisation). This is not a racist comment or anything, just saying. And I feel that most people complain not because there is ethnic diversity in HoTD, but because for the moment it seems a bit random and not so regionally defined.
@@Terter1551there were NO black people in medieval europe? What about the Ethiopians in the Byzantine court?
“Black and Brown are different things”
You know what he meant, stop acting obtuse.
As actual history shows, there were several black African empires and kingdoms, not exclusively Egyptians and Kushites: all these empires had slaves of different ethnicities, some including whites. It would therefore have been very plausible that the Valeryans were a black people, at least originally.
THANK YOU. A lot of black americans arguing aginst the casting miss this point
@@triplemoyagames4195 why would black Americans complain about being included. The majority of the complaints are not coming from them.
The show is fake but makes sense to have other empires with different races of people. The GOT series was missing that.
@@annmariebusu9924 In GoT we didn't really see any empires though, Westeros is relatively homogenous island with not that much diversity, which makes total sense. Some Valyrians being black makes sense though, since it is heavily inspired by the Roman Empire, which had a lot of different races within its borders.
@@petrorlov2599 We did see other nations - Essos. Essos is where Daenerys is most of the story. It's where Arya and Sam go.
I really like the change it really makes them look out of this world like the Valyrians were supposed to be
I think he looks badass personally & with him having family hailing from the Summer Isles, it's actually not a stretch at all. Looking forward to seeing his performance, I really hope we get some good flashbacks of his early days & travels!
If there is a spinoff series - I wonder if there could be some flashforwards showing Arya treading in his footsteps? That'd be interesting and draw attention. Honestly, though - no series is going to give me what I want - to examine the detailed chronologies which are kept by the Empire of Yi Ti that could clarify some elements of the deep timeline... the phrase 'most accurate unbroken records' is probably among the most exciting in TWOIAF
It IS a stretch, actually. A high lord of Westeros will only marry a daughter of another high lord of Westeros and not some nobody from the Summer Isles. And in this case it's even worse because the Velaryons want to keep their Valyrian looks so they can keep breeding with the Targs. They won't even marry a Princess of Dorne not to talk of a Summer Islander with no name. They can obviously bed them but it doesn't make sense for them to marry them. You can say Corlys is a bastard child that was legitimized but that is just stretching. The lore is set and Corlys is not white. They just made him black because they wanted to and now we are all here trying to make sense of it.
@@jwg72 😂that would be awesome
@@celter.45acp98 the same place it’s written that he was white…oh right it’s written no where.
@@celter.45acp98 your right Alyn isn’t black…because hes not corlys son.
I think it's ironic that even in fantasy we as black people still find ourselves in the same situations. All we want is to see a little representation but we don't go begging for it. Every black person that enjoyed game of thrones as much as every white person did not stop to ask why isn't anyone black in the main cast.
Edit: the fact that I just posted that comment and you, as a creator already read it and acknowledged it shows me that you're fan engagement game is on point! forgot to sub but that most definitely reminded me to
all I know is there are HELLA black GoT fans so the racists are just gonna have to go somewhere else to have their whites-only fantasy
@@DavidLightbringer thank you brother 🙏🏾 you don't know how much that means to hear you say that bro. Everytime I see an Ally to us good human beings it makes my day. To know white people do have our backs against racism is something you should never stop doing brother. Much love
I am a huge game of thrones fan and I am black it is my most favorite tv show ever and i never even thought about why is there anymore black people it never even crossed my mind because I like the story that much so for me to hear they playa hatin like this i'm disappointed because racism is just another form of playa hatin and when did it became cool to be a hater
I think it's mostly the media bro, They get people all worked up and at each other's throats over stuff they really don't even care about.
Bit I agree they casted the show great and I'm really liking it so far.
Direct Summer Islander ancestry for Corlys and the Velayrons could be really interesting and cool worldbuilding as described in the video but we shouldn't forget that there are black characters in other parts of the world, namely in Braavos. In fact, there are native black Braavosi that helped found Braavos.
Passages from The World of Ice and Fire about the different races that started Braavos
"It is clear that Braavos is unique among all of the Free Cities, as it was founded not by the will of the Freehold, nor by its citizens, but instead by its slaves. According to the tales of the Braavosi, a huge slaver fleet that had out been collecting tributes in human flesh from the lands of the Summer and Jade seas, became victim to a slave uprising instead."
"...Seizing control of the fleet but realizing there was no place nearby to hide from the Freehold, the slaves instead elected to seek out some land far from Valyria and its subjects, and founded their own city in hiding…"
"The Braavosi were a people who were no people. Scores of races, a hundred tongues, and hundreds of gods. All they had in common was a Valyrian that formed the common trade language of Essos, and the fact that they were now free, where once they had been slaves."
"Since the escaped slaves came from many lands and held many faiths, the founders of Braavos created a place where all gods were given their due, and decreed that none would ever be made paramount of another. They were a diverse people, whose numbers included Andals, Summer Islanders, Ghiscari, Naathi, Rhoynar, Ibbenese, Sarnori, and even debtors and criminals of pure Valyrian blood."
Point being, The Velayrons could have married some dark skinned Braavosi Sealords that were the descendants of Summer Islander or Naathi that escaped Valyrian slavery. And we know from Fire and Blood that the modern Velayrons were interested in marrying Braavosi, as Corlys arranged a marriage between his daughter Laena and the son of a Braavosi Sealord. Whose to say this kind of arrangement didn't happen before, with some Braavosi with dark skin?
oh hey that's a great insight! You're totally correct, that could also work well. I had a feeling I wasn't thinking of everything. Cheers and thanks!
That would be really cool. As a house that focuses on trade, it would make sense for a Velaryon to marry a Braavosi, since Braavos is one of the biggest trading hubs in their world.
Genius!! Love This, Being A Black Man. Great This Concept.
There are also dark-skinned Dornish, I’m pretty sure. They’re called the Salty dornishmen
I think it was a fabulous decision. First of all, it helps distinguish them from the Targaryen's and outright tells you they have a different family history but are still related to them by classical valyrian features such as the white hair an all. It also make sense since they are sailors therefore visited the world and most likely intertwined with locals from different cultures over the years. I could go on and on but I will stop here so newcommers understand the basics of it. Finally, I just wanted to add that Steve Toussaint who plays Corlys Velaryion, is an OUTSTANDING actor. He plays his role to perfection and he just fits in the whole ensemble. I get it that its new to see more diversity, especially when it comes to the main casting, since Game of Thrones did far from that....but you got to let those apprehensions and bs aside, since I think it better the shows more than anything:)
As a visual medium for story telling, This is an outstanding decision. Removing all the political correctness/diversity issue from the discussion, it facilitate audience with differentiating the factions AND there will be a major plot point that ties into this later on.
Im not thinking about his race. Im thinking about how the crabfeeder is making corlys broke. Thats good writing.
Around 9:35 you begin talking about people being confused about the actor’s skin color and I would just like to expand on that a bit. Having parents of two different races is of course a thing, but that doesn’t mean that the baby is going to come out with light skin or evidence that it’s parents are of different races. Mixed children can have a various range of skin tones just like Black people with two Black parents can.
thats abit of a half truth. most mixed people will look and take traits from both. especially in skintone. usually the skin will be a balance of both parents in tone. its rare that 2 fair skin whites produce a tanned white person and also 2 dark blackskinned blacks produce a lightskin black person
@@kijogatama5415 comparing your tiny family is irrelevant. i am correct because im not looking at a small pool. the africa arguement is dumb because their many different races and mixes over there. africa isnt just black, its mixed with asian/middle eastern, indian and some whites so yes its diverse but thats per region
so in countries ull see entire populations who are simply darker skin with little mixing. and ull have to move to and entire different country to see different skin tonnes. africa isnt mixed and diverse every single place like youre trying to assume, you gotta go 1000s of miles to see diversity sometimes
youre looking a small annomalies and exceptions but the vast majority is like i said in my original comment.
@@jaypey8253 my mom is dark brown, my dad is medium toned brown, I came out beige. It happens. genetics isn’t so, excuse the pun, black & white😂
@@CJ-BZ it isnt but there are patterns that are noticable. so we dont go off exceptions
in africa 2 darkskin people can have a white skinned person, albinos they call them
so genetic mutations happen. but its not the norm. my friends parents are both short but hes 6 foot.
also get a dna test with you dad. he might not be ya dad lol
@@jaypey8253 lol oh nah, he is def my dad. same face, eye color & i even inherited his birthmark. i just have a pair of white great grandparents from him and the lack melanin came out in me. it is what it is
One way this is a good choice: Not having almost the entire main cast look exactly alike. With the rivalry/connections of the 2 houses being such a big plot point, & them both being Valyrian houses with their signature white hair, it could have been unnecessarily difficult to tell characters apart in the early episodes, which make it hard to "lock in" on story beats, not to mention if they hadn't done this the ..."Keep it in the family" reputation of the franchise would have stood out A LOT more than it already does with it looking like a clone orgy to the maybe more casual watcher
On a slightly unrelated note: This is in a weird way similar to why I think there are names like house Yronwood in the books. As in when you have a house name that's also an in world item, you need a way to distinguish them, so "Yronwood" = House, "Ironwood", = lumber etc
Even if the Velaryons were always black, Aegon and his sisters don’t have to change from the fan art.
You can have one white and black parent and still turn out pasty and ginger, or you could turn out as black as corlys.
Genetics arent as direct as some people believe.
Also... genetics could work differently in a world were magic and dragons are a thing.
Yeah my moms black and my dads white and I don’t look at all like the traditional idea of mixed race people. Just look like a well tanned white guy haha
It kind of depends of the pairing yea. A white german and a black nigerian would have a very dark skinned kid almost always.
But a random black american and a random white american will have much more varied results as there is a high change they have some mixed ancestry.
I think it was dope that they cast black actors as the Velaryon House. It makes sense with the dragon seed Nettles who was black with brown hair but somehow was able to ride the dragon Sheepstealer.
They HAVE to tie that in or it will be such a waste.
Veleryons aren’t Dragon riders
@@iangallagher5448 They don't have dragon eggs themselves, but some of them are dragonriders. For example, Corlys' bastard son, Addam of Hull
@@Hana9916 Actually Alyn was unable to claim a dragon but Addam claimed Seasmoke which was the Dragon of Laenor meaning that more than likely Seasmoke found similarity between Addam and Laenor rather that be look or blood
@@aedenali5985 I think it may just be the Sea snakes mother was a summer islander because one of his aunts was Alyssa Velaryeon who is the Mother of Alysanne and Jaehearys meaning that every Targ till the dance should all look black seeing as since her they’ve only married each other. If they make just him and his immediate family black it may only change the race of King Daeron and King Baelor the Blessed
I thought it felt surprisingly quiet on this topic, turns out it's just me not having social media.
yeah... yeah. I mean it's nowhere near as bad as in the Lord of the Rings fandom, but I am deleting several racist comments on this video every day, and at the beginning, there was a flood. Some of these types are racists that are in our various fandoms, and many of them are diehard culture warriors that flood a fandom when a "diversity casting" is announced. it's very much a turf war for them... which is why I delete all such comments on sight.
@@DavidLightbringer I wish I could subscribe twice, you are doing the Lord's work friend. It shouldn't be exhausting to exist in the skin I was born with...but it is, and the gaslighting that we're the ones focused on it. I'd give anything to just be "Johanne" and not "black Johanne".
I LOVE this idea of Corlys. Thank you for sharing! It's logical...doesn't break canon AND expands the lore even more. THIS is how to do it right. It also shows a "golden age" of the Targaryen Court, which was much more vibrant and highlight that the fall of Westros into this banal mediocrity kinda began with the Dance Of the Dragons, and was solidified with the Fire at Summerhall. Perhaps this is why none of black Velaryons exist by the main series...they died at Summerhall and a cadet branch carried on the name.
So much potential world building, and I LOVE IT!
You were raised right. Thank you for giving zero 🤬 about skin color. People waste the little time we have on earth hating people for reasons they don't know 🙄
Excellent explanation. I would just add that all bi-racial people don't come out with lighter skin...some have darker skin
Valyria was somewhat modeled after Ancient Rome according to Martin. And ancient Rome was an international trading hub with people from everywhere including Egyptians, Africans, even Asian traders. I don't see the big deal at all that there are difference races and intermarriage within Valyria. No need to even have a Summer Isle connection. There were already different races as well as slaves from all over in Valyria.
Egypt is africa lol
North africans* were part of romean trade and culture, sub saharans were separated with the biggest desert in history from us.
Really appreciated this, I’m not black but as a Latino I still appreciate diversity if it fits correctly, and this fits perfect with the Summer Isles
Arya might have found the Latinos haha
Then you should’ve wanted original characters. Not hand me downs
@@ifo7319 these are all original characters set at a different timeline, your not making any sense gonna have to elaborate further.
Latino isn't a race. It's a culture. There are black, white, mixture and indigenous Latinos.
@@patrickk___ The Valyrians and the Velaryons are canonically white. Pale skin, purple eyes, silver/blond hair.
I appreciate diversity too, and am a writer myself, and so when they change canon and characters instead of actually making originally non white characters it’s highly insulting and incredibly lazy.
No one should be happy when these corporations thinking the audience will take scraps from changing established characters instead of putting in the work to have actual real, foundational poc characters from the get go.
There’s also non white characters they could have focused on more in ASOIAF. Why didn’t they do that? I’d like to see that more, instead of tokenizing.
Personally, I also believe these producers giving only non white characters screen time after they have racebended or black washed them as them regarding originally white characters as the only way for audiences or they care or they don’t see original black or original Latino characters as deserving of storylines and growth, and that there is an ideological perspective that has ill intentions.
Corlys looks more bad ass then I ever could’ve imagine. I love the casting
@@joshrivers5191 nope we’re gonna watch this show and LOVE Corlys in it. Sorry not sorry.🤷🏼♂️
Right like I’m glad they didn’t cast a white person and I’m saying this as a white person😂. They look BADASS no questions asked!
@@sobir745 his white dreads look like dried dogshit. didn't think they could outdo the Rhaegars wig in trashiness, but they did
@@sobir745 ...the fuck does that have to do with it?
He definitely looks good it's just black washing a white character is kinda racist dont you think...I mean make an original characters but yea. ...regal as hell.
Many Westerosi (both book and show) are quite predjudiced against "foreigners" of any color, when identified by their accent, clothing, etc. Littlefinger was of part Braavosi descent, and that made it difficult to establish House Baelish. The Velaryons have long been considered Westerosi, so I don't believe they'd be subjected to colorism in-universe.
My curiosity is about how the show is going to handle Rhynera's kids. The rumors of infidelity are fueled by their kids not looking Valyrian, but now we have a much broader idea of what that means. It's either going to be more obvious or less obvious that the kids aren't Laenor's. Not being negative about that, just curious how it gets handled.
Eyes are out, since the show has never had the Valyrians have the purple eyes from the novels. Hair color is still a possible factor, but now her kids will also be white, a much more mundane sort of infidelity indicator. I feel like that's less interesting. Valyrian traits have always been kind of mysterious in terms of heritability, which gave the parentage of her kids a certain mystery. Making it a skin color issue takes away from the fantasy.
Laenor looks more white than black so that shouldn't be an issue, irl Laenor's actor and Rhanyra's actor could easily have 100% white looking kids. The hair color is the issue.
I get what you’re saying , but being biracial doesn’t always equate to having brown skin. Children can be biracial but look like more of one race than the other. Example Halsey, Mariah Carey etc. On top of that Rhaenys Velaryon’s mother had baratheon black hair.
This all makes a lot of sense. What I would like to see is how the Targaryans react to it. The canonical Targaryans are not exactly colorblind. Half the time, they prefer incest over marrying anyone who isn't Valyrian enough to preserve the 'blood of the dragon'. In practice that means they are looking for white hair (which Corlys has), purple eyes (generally missing from the tv version, probably because it doesn't look good) and pale skin (which this version of Corlys doesn't have). One reason for their close relationship with the Velaryons is that they are also Valyrians. Bealor Breakspear, who was by all accounts a decent guy, got flak for his Dornish features. One of the big things at stake in the Dance of the Dragons was the right for women to rule. The woman ruler being more tolerant to a black hand of the king vs her more bigoted opponents disliking her for that too would make a ton of sense
The Targaryans are not color conscious they are Valeria conscious. There is no reason to assume that the Valyrians saw race as white people see it today. White people in our real world didn't always see race the way we see it today. Our Idea of race was constructed in the 15th century. It didn't exist before then. They probably saw race they way all empires saw race Valarian (superior) everybody else (inferior) Corlys is Valyrian and part Targaryan so preferable to any westorosi
Targaryen bigotry might not function the exact same way as ours. All the same they care a lot about heredity, correct blood and appearance. Once you care about that you aren't actually that far away from garden variety racism. Corlys will visibly have some pretty non-valyrian blood. That's gotta get some response and not just based on some concept of race. Bigotry might be rationalized conceptually but I don't think it's usually based on concepts.
@@Evilanious Think in terms of the Egyptians, Ancient Egyptians were a black Africans people just like all their neighbors, However by the time of Alexander the Great The noble houses of Egypt were interbred with various Semitic peoples who had moved into the area and many Greek traders lived in Egypt and intermarried with Egyptian trader families. Egyptians however made no distinction between brown Egyptians and black Egyptians by the time of Alexander the Great invaded. It was just too common a phenomenon for them to care about. They did however care if you were Egyptian of not. Any Egyptian no matter what he looked like was considered better than any none Egyptian no matter what shade he was. I that frankly was true of most empires of the ancient world. That is how they saw race. Skin color racism had to be invented and it came into our world very late in human history. Not really until after 1492. I think Valerians would probably most likely have seen race the same way the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Nubians, Ethiopians and Romans saw it. A Roman Emperor would have seen an Ethiopian princess as a better choice than Daughter of a German High king.
@@clementmckenzie7041 "trust me bro"
@@clementmckenzie7041 no its well documented that targaryens are race conscious, towards pale features. Don't let your political correctness blind you now. This adaptation can still be done right. It needs to address this correctly, though.
Black Corlys is ayt in my book, the actor's performance is ultimately what matters most and black Corlys fucking DELIVERS.
so nice to wake up to a bunch of positive comments on this video today, that's not always the case. The racists are like weeds
@@DavidLightbringer I don't think it's particularly racist if he ISNT black in the books, similar to how people get mad at Dragonball Evolution for casting a white guy as Goku instead of an asian. Tho as a non book reader, I have no idea what color they are in the books nad I personally really like the actor playing corlys a lot so it's a win for me.
I actually think Corlys is the coolest looking actor to pull off a Valyrian wig and look badass so far. And I love the idea of his mother being summer islander and making a spin-off where he visits the summer isles. But I also don’t think the people who hate on this are racist (some are but not all). Purists just hate changes from the books in general.
sorry but purists who are making the same objections as the racists, adding to the Corlys hate, and trying to defend themselves by saying "well I'm just making those same arguments for my own reason" aren't really excusing themselves. If you care more about the canon of obscure characters remaining absolutely unchanged than increasing diversity in Hollywood - which has always been racist and white-centric - or if you care more about that than making sure people feel welcome in the fandom, then I call that racism as well. Like get your priorities straight. The purpose behind attacking everything perceived as increasing diversity in Hollywood is to protect whiteness, territory perceived as white. It's gross and entirely racist
The velaryons couldn't have always been black if they were jaehaerys daughter wouldn't have been scared of the summer islander prince due to his skin color because her grandma alyssa who is a velaryon would have been black and her father would have been mixed
We don't do that here
@@rrmush7683 Do what? The comment is Canon specific and not being biased.
I mean, the idea that a particular set of genes responsible for eye color, hair color etc. passes on and on again in a perfect patrilineal line for thousands of years (this is how old Starks, Lannisters and Dondarrions/Baratheons are) so that every major house can be determined by a set of physical traits is by itself ridiculous.
@@terintiaflavius3349it's a joke, people call me racist when I point out things like that 🤣🤣🤣
Spoted the racist (jokes)
I think everyone would want to marry into the Velaryon family because that is just a good-looking family, and when that group makes an entrance, they look fantastic.
corlys velaryon was also one of the most insightful and forward thinking member of the small counsel with him trying to crush the triarchy before they get a foothold while simultaneously trying to get his blood on the throne
Instead of changing the entire race of an established family why not create a new one? Robb's show wife was changed from his book wife.
But why though? This is more interesting. I don’t really want a bunch of made up characters.
@@DavidLightbringer Because taking a character who is originally white and changing his race is far more racist and offensive than not putting any black character in the series.
1. It's not changing the entire race of an established family. The Velaryons will in a few years be looking like Targ looking again. 2. It was only changing the ethnicity of a single character because the character has an interesting background which makes sense. 3. Unlike other Blackwashing, Corlys Velaryon as brown/black comes from the creator himself, George Martin. It is his world. If he said he's mixed race, he is mixed race.
As always nowadays I get worried by the notion but I try to wait and see how it goes. To many times it feels like modern shows are using diversity to shield themselves against any and all criticism. I didn’t know about a lot of what you’ve shown me in this video but I still like house valaryon a lot. They keep getting better each episode and I can’t wait to see more.
If all of this was the case, then why didn't George put it down in his book. Why didn't he say all of these things about going to the Summer Isles and marrying a Summer Islander, etc. I
'm a black man and I'll still watch the show, but this definitely bothers me because its clearly pandering. There are so many black characters in so many black stories written by black authors, but Hollywood will rather take an originally white character and make them black. What does that say to black creators and audiences? That our stories are not worthy. It says that a black character is not good enough unless they are originally a white character. That's why I hate this decision to make Corlys Velaryon black. Now you have to create far-streched arguments in order to back this nonsense up.
What makes me even more upset is that there are black people that call this progress. Tbh, they could've just kept the character as a white dude and created an originally black character - that way everyone would've been happier. The show gets the diversity that its clearly seeking, and we can get an accurate adaptation with an extra, cool character.
100% id love to hear LMLs take on that
I disagree. Making up a new character for a store that’s already set doesn’t make a lot of sense, and fans usually don’t respond well to characters like that. Corlys is a character whom we hear nothing about firsthand - he’s just a historical figure with an empty backstory who’s looks are never described. What they did was to make an interesting choice to fill out his backstory. My explanations weren’t far fetched at all - as I said several times, contact between he Summer Isles and House Velaryon absolutely would have occurred. It’s actually weirder is the Velaryons never married people from foreign lands. They have no incentive to “keep bloodlines pure” as the Targaryens do, because they aren’t dragon riders. Finally I have no idea why adding a few non-white people to an all white show is “pandering” as opposed to “much needed diversity.” As I said in the video (did you even watch it?) fantasy has always been too white and has painted an inaccurate picture of medieval Europe as homogeneously white. Course correction is both good and accurate.
I agree that Hollywood should tell black stories and not just slot black actors into stuff that exists that is written from a western POV. That’s true. But it has nothing to do with the show, which was already happening one way or the other. It could have happened with all white people, but instead they made an interesting world-building choice that adds to the character of Corlys and broadens the world we will discuss. All of that is good.
Finally, George Martin is working closely on this show and he thinks it’s a great change. So no one has any room to complain about it disrupting canon. It’s fine for an adaptation to make changes, especially if they improve the story. Plus, how are we gonna tell twenty white folks in silver wigs apart??!
@@DavidLightbringer What's up, man. I love your channel by the way so I hope that you understand that my difference in opinion doesn't translate to any hate or animosity of any kind. But I'll try to answer some of your questions as directly as I can.
Firstly, the reason why it's "pandering" is because we already know that the Valyrians are pale skinned - so adding them into the story as black characters is clearly an attempt to try and pull in a different kind of audience. Though I must acknowledge that adding diversity into a show in order to try and make it appealing to a different demographic is not something that's necessarily wrong - in fact, I agree with you that diversity should exist in TV shows. I just don't agree with the way that it is being done.
As a black man, I want to see original black characters. I want black stories to be told in a unique and honest way. I want to witness the black experience through the black lens. I don't want a white character to be replaced by a black dude so that lazy white writers, and producers and fans that couldn't give a damn, feel better about themselves at night. If our stories as black people are not going to be told authentically, then I'd rather they not be told at all. Let US (black people) figure out how to tell them for ourselves. We don't need George RR Martin's story as a vehicle to tell our stories. If you don't understand that, then that's precisely why you don't understand my anger, and why I'm upset at this decision. I don't even expect you to understand that sh*t.
And by the way, slotting in black characters into white narratives has everything to do with this show. ASOIAF is adapted from English, white history, inspired by white characters and white myths and lores. Everything about it is from a white world. It's has nothing to do with blackness. It has nothing to do with Africanity. You want to know how I know? Because I'm a black man from Africa. I am very familiar with African lore and myths. I've been hearing stories about such things my entire life. Though the themes of western and African myths can be the same, they also have qualities about them that make them particularly unique to each culture. That's what I believe black people want. We don't necessarily want to see a black character prancing about on screen - we want these characters to embody our cultures and to reflect our realities. That can't happen from a western, European basis.
By the way, I did watch your video (though I'll admit that I stopped halfway because I felt like I'd heard this argument before from other channels), but anyway, I don't agree with your opinion about George leaving the race of the Valyrians ambiguous in the books. He says so many times how the typical Valyrian features are: pale skin, purple eyes, and platinum blonde hair. He writes about that in the books, he has admitted it on his NotABlog, and it's even written on the ASOIAF wikipage. I really don't like this thing of people being called "idiots" and "bigots" for expecting for the books to be adapted accurately. We are allowed to have our own opinions - people shouldn't be shamed for having one, especially when it's based on truth from the books. With that being said, I don't like this change. I don't like it and I don't like it. However, I'll still give the show a peek.
At the end of the day, I'm in love with the story and I think that there are interesting events throughout it - so that's what I'll be watching it for. I'll choose to view this adaptation as an innacurate interpretation of George's world and an alternate version of what happened. Give a damn if George is standing right beside them as they make this show.
@@NaphakadeTheGoat thank u that's what I'm saying why replace already existing characters who are white to black when add more new characters and then we are called racist for something that the book already states it makes no sense 😂😂
The Summer Islands really does introduce an interesting aspect to the family. (Edit: Seriously, the Summer Isles, adds a really interesting aspect to the family. I hope the show really monopolizes on this.)
It’s better to introduce new characters than change the race or sex of a character. There’s the entire summer isles why not introduce people from there? No one disliked Grey Worm or Missande most fans aren’t racist it just makes more sense to introduce summer islanders.
But "they" didn't change anything...
Shut up
First off, they are an extremely good-looking group of men and I agree it adds a level of coolness to their family! I appreciate your explanation and can't even pretend to care about the outrage. Let them choke on their complaints. BTW, I love the sweatshirt you're wearing.
Thank you!
It’s not just that. It makes sense. The valaryons weren’t known for incest like the targaryens. They also sailed around the world and known for marrying with other families. So having a different ethnic house makes sense as they probably did marry to different places other than Westeros
I doubted the casting myself, though I'm black. I just couldn't picture it, even from preview pictures. He proved me dead wrong with his performance. He's Corlys Velaryon. And now I won't have to listen to casuals get the Velaryons and Targaryens mixed up, you can tell them apart much better. I also really like what it does for the Strong boys dilemma. It takes the "maybe they are, maybe they aren't" to "Lol they're obviously not" and I think that works for this so much better.
Not only that the Velaryon children do not look like Laenor, but they also do not look like Rhaenyra either, as they won't have the silver hair or purple eyes of the Valyrians.
I really hope they go for option 1 because that would, in the long run, give them more cool options to visit the summer isles and do other interesting things in a way that feels personal to an important character. Option 2 is cool enough too, but I see that naturally adding more depth to Valyria rather than the Summer Isles, and while Valyrian society is a very interesting topic, that empire has been gone for a long time, whereas the Summer Isles can be visited whenever. The few Summer Islander characters we've had in the books so far have also been very interesting people and I'd really like to hear more about them and their culture overall.
I think the 2nd option goes along with true history, even if this show is just fantasy anyway...Hint white nobles in ancient times, hell white slavery didn't end until 1916 with the Child Labor laws Act.
Wow I really enjoyed your video, from the perspective of a black woman I thought the video was well done, thought provoking, and respectful. Thank you ❤️
thank you very much!
Corlys Velaryon is a complicated character as he goes back and forth the two sides, I am interested in how they are going to portray Velaryon in a heroic disposition or as a villain or even maybe just another politician trying to get on top with the winning side.
I'm really interested to see how they handle Addam of Hull and the accepted heir story(during the dragonseed part of the story.)
GOTTA LOVE THAT OPENER TUNE!
🎸🎶Play that funky Bass Harp, Rhaegar 🎶🎸
🎸🎶Play that funky Bass Harp right🎶🎸
Only four episodes in and Steve Toussaint has already shown us that he was and will always be Corlys Velaryon. The chemistry between him and Eve Best is pretty outstanding, especially since we haven’t really gotten into their story yet. The actors/writers really did an amazing job with the immersion and making us, the audience, feel that the story is contiguous without major plot holes and unsatisfying time leaps (ahem, not unlike their “predecessor”).
I really disliked how HBO and the directors/show runners dumbed their casting choices down to just being about “race.” I mean, Sapochnik literally said in an interview he didn’t want this to be another show where there’s “a bunch of white people on screen.” How is that not an insult to Steve Toussaint’s (and his costars) incredible range as an actor? He took this role and he brought it to life on TV. If I ever read the books, I will always picture him as Corlys. Period. Even when the lorebangers and shitposters were up in arms about black Velaryon’s ***GASP***. Yeah, I get that there’s always gonna be naysayers and closet racists that make themselves heard in situations such as this. I just wish the people backing the show actually stood up for their actors in stating that they were casted because they’re the best - not because of something so shallow as skin color.
I personally would prefer option number two, just for the sole reason that GRRM said that if he had the chance to change something about the valyrians it would be the pale skin color to a dark one. silver hair and violet eyes with dark skin also just feels more magical and fantastical and BEAUTIFUL, don't you think? In any case, really glad they decided to include more diversity into the show, let's just hope they treat their diverse casts characters better than GOT did.
I totally agree !!
Yeah, Option 1 sounds more interesting/ would make more sense (i.e. it would be cool for a great sea captain to come from two cultures that are really good seafarers, plus it would give the show a chance to explore the Summer Isles) BUT I lowkey don't want there to have to 'be' an explanation/ reason for the Velaryons being black, and I'm thinking like, you've already cast the Velaryons here as black, why not go balls deep and cast the whole house as black?
And/ or, it could be cool/ canon if the Velaryons had different skin tones over the generations. As in, Velaena Velaryon, who married Aenor and had Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys, could be white/ tan while these Velaryons (which occur a hundred years-ish later) could be black/ darker in skin tone. Which makes sense due to the timespan and the fact that the Valeryons outmarried anyways.
Ideally, though, I would want a mix of Option 1 and 2, where Corlys' ancestry could be used to make his character cooler + explore the Summer Isles but his mother/ father could also be black. So, his mother could be a Summer Islander who is black, and his father is a Velaryon (and black). I feel like this would potentially be a good 'subversion' as well since the audience could assume that because of his skin tone one parent is white/ he is a foreigner but then he could hit back 'my dad, a Velaryon -- and by the way we've been here longer than the Targaryens -- is black, so' type thing.
@@bonafide4874 Tbh also prefer that idea of them not explaining anything because it doesn't *have* to be explained in an ideal (and hopefully future) world ♥️. Sadly right now the skintone being unexplained would probably mean more criticism from idiots complaining about "forced diversity in a white story" 🤢🥴
Next time, we want white hikers who are clearly Asian.
I love the trailer and the actors! Everyone that’s been casted seems perfect! Everyone and even me are hyped up for the Velaryons. I hope they have navy battles during the war with the dragon burning them. I just don’t want GRRM to be another JK Rowling. If it’s written in detail of the character don’t act like a smart ass and change it nor whitewash them. Give us long time fans of the books credit!
Mmm, there are a couple of racist moments in the books. In A Feast for Crows prologue chapter, a cousin of Margery and Loras refers to Sarella Sand’s (Oberyn’s fourth daughter, via a Summer Islander mother) mother as a “monkey”, and comments that “the Dornish will fuck anything”. In addition, Rhaenyra commented in anger about canonically black dragon rider Nettles that “you just have to look at her to know that she is no dragonseed”.
Right but that’s not “colorism” as an established part of the culture. The monkey insult doesn’t have the baggage it would in the US; it’s not a know slur but a specific sort casual insult. That’s the point I was making - Summer Islanders aren’t ridiculed or called specific slurs by the general population.
I find it interesting how there’s a generally agreed upon default for characters that never had physical descriptions
How people just always assume "humans" = "White"
@@13579hee (SNAPS) My friend.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a "White man's World" & ppl like me just live in it.
@@13579hee exactly!
But they did have descriptions even if it isn't the sea snake himself his daughter and his son are very detailed in what they look like and so is his wife soooo and you know the whole fact that the valyrians are the only other Valerian family hence the name and you know the valerians have a rather unique depiction to them having platinum blonde hair and purple eyes
Keep in mind, many black people in our real world have white ancestors going back to the days of slavery. Also consider an interracial couple today, their kids could potentially change the race of their whole family tree depending on who they have kids with.
Show started and literally everyone stopped caring about the colour of their skin. Because it's a good show with good actors.
I didn’t think this needed an explanation until I watched your video. I’m just excited to watch. GOT was a series I didn’t know I needed and now I have been going through withdrawals and have watched GOT seasons 1-8 at least three times over. So I’m hella excited for HOTD….
Liked and agreed with all of your comments other than "Medieval euope was not homogeneous" It was. I mean it even was 100 years ago, let alone 700 years ago! You make good points, but don't step into miss information that bad people could point out to reduce the value of your other worthy statments.
Moorish Spain? North African Roman Emperors? Damascus Steel Viking swords made with ore from the Middle East? You sure about that my brother?
@@DavidLightbringerVery sure. I'm 45 years old and I can remember what europe was like just 30 years ago.
But your examples point to imported goods, not people. Damascus was actually made in India, and called wootz, again imported goods not people. North Africa at the time of the Roman empire was European in terms of haplogroup as any statue of Hannibal will tell you in an instant (He was from Carthage, which was a Phoenician territory (lebanon). (North africa is still very european) As for Moorish spain. Well yes, and the USA did not classify Spanish people as white due to the bigoted policies they had at the time of the great migrations to the USA. However, Spanish carry overwhelmingly indigenous West European Haplogroup R1B. They carry some North African DNA and Haplogroup J which could have originated from the Moors, and the Moors (modern day Morroco) were and are still a very mixed group, and many could certainly pass for italian. Other European countries not invaded by the moors were very homogeneous right up untill the 1950's. The Nordics as recently as the 1980's. Lebanon, Morroco, and north Africa generally have actually gotten more mixed over time, but even today, they have a lot of European DNA. Mix them with Europeans and their kids would barely look non EU. The Roman empire map, if overlaid with Neanderthal habitats, are a near perfect match, and Europeans look as they do due to mixing with Neanderthals. (Neanderthals lived in huge groups in north Africa and france, spain, germany etc)
"Viking swords made with ore from the Middle East?"
We had gunpowder, porcelain, and opium for a very long time. However not many chinese people moved over prior to the 1900's movement of goods does not equate to migration of people. Or do you think that steel was carried by one guy on a donkey all the way solo from India, and on arrival he stayed and raised a family. That would not be an efficient trade route.. No people did short legs then returned home after passing on the parcel.
You have right on your side, when you denounce trolls and the racists. But don't try to rewrite history which can be proven false very quickly with Google. It undermines your other valid points.
And in regard to the Valaryons? Sure make them Sub saharan African, they look cool in the vid, and give me the same vibes as the king in the walking dead. We have not seen them yet on screen, so they can be all gingers or bright green for all I care. It would be a bit more awkward to swap the very clear blonde hair thing the Targaryens have. (especially as they were incestuous as heck)
@@peterwalker9391 really because I am black and I am over fifty I am from Europe and my grandparents lived in a black neighborhood in London before world war two and my fathers grandmother was born and lived in the black neighborhoods of Paris . So I gotta wonder where in Europe were you living . I also want to point out that Alesandro De Medici the duke of Florence in the 14th century was half black African. When Shakespeare wrote Othello, do you think he invented black people so that he could write about one or do you think he had seen one. King Henry's royal trumpeter was black maybe and Queen Catharine's dressmaker was a black woman. I assume you have seen the paintings of aristocrats and the black children they kept as pages in museums. I could go on for days but Europe was not homogeneous
I'd prefer the Velaryons were black from the Valyrian days. Valyria is literally smack dab in the middle of the world. It'd make sense if it were a diverse society with lots of conquered peoples being folded in and becoming citizens. I really hope they do a Valyria series exploring The Doom and Daenys the Dreamer.
Yeah I mean it’s definitely based on Rome and it was a multiethnic empire
If they do that than all the Targeryen’s should be black
You are amazing man. I discovered your channel a couple of weeks ago and there is soooo much content to go through so thank you.
As a black African fan and nerd of the SOIF world I have to say I love how you have taken a strong stance on this and connecting the logical dots.
Right on Michael! It’s the right thing to do, and it’s pretty easy to choose one part of the fandom over the other in this instance, lol. Some of the people complaining about me labeling premature objections to the casting as rooted in racism go on to throw all kinds of other typical right wing insults out, further validating my stance. It’s wild. Like, y’all are racist AND insufferable.
I’m Black and I don’t appreciate the folks in the comments acting like they need to find it “acceptable.” Grey Area took a strong stance on this back when no one was shutting these racists down. He doesn’t get as* pats for letting his racist subscribers squeal about this for months and saying something when it became convenient to do so.
@@melanatedqueen6662 c’mon Queen :) appreciating and applauding good work and content isn’t a pat on the back in that context.
With that said, that’s interesting RE subscribers, I have no knowledge of that- we don’t share a similar experience cos I recently discovered this channel (per my initial comment) and catching up on some really dope live streams. This is the third video on this channel I have seen this being addressed and racists being called out so to me that’s a stance nonetheless.
Will check out Grey Area!
Peace.
I do not have a problem with this , I am sure they will make this work , and above all else GRRM signed off on this change from the books ; so who is anyone to take issue with it , if the author himself sanctioned it. Though I do think it makes the most sense to start this concept from that specific generation (Corlys' era) with the Velaryons. HotD does not have to but i think that works best. Especially since i believe we do not know even in the books who Corlys' father was anyway. They can make it a black House from before this time period if they want and make that work but that could give rise to a few issues. Especially given the Targs intermarried with the Velaryons pre-Conquest and numerous times after (especially in the early Targ Westerosi dynasty) and we know what the Targs look like and the show is keeping that Targ book appearance it seems. It would be less disruptive to the book lore if the Velaryons marrying Summer Islanders or whatever they decide with that in HotD would have started with Corlys' father / that generation.
The affect on the Targs look / appearance could be problematic if they go back too far with this concept. Also in the books the Targs do have a white supremacy / blood purity aspect about them ; certainly GRRM used that to show as a clear negative with them. That negative aspect of the Targs would be diminished if they had been intermarrying with black Velaryons for a few generations by the DotD eta and of course would make the Targs considerably black by then as well.
FIRST of all, your look is amazing. The whole Ozzy glasses thing and the neat Corinthian look makes you seem as though you jumped off the pages of a graphic novel 😃 SO COOL!
Secondly, my only gripe with Cor is that DAMN... they need to make his dreads look better. They look wispy and too wiggy. Rhaenyra's hair looks too wiggy too. To be fair, they had issues with that in GOT with the first episode as well but, maybe it's because I'm a girl who played dress up in costumes, it's very obvious to me but I hope they make his hair ticker and try to get the beard coloring right.
Thirdly 😄 I understand where some people are coming from. I personally didn't read the books... yet.... so it made no difference to me. In my country we don't see color (classism is unfortunately a big thing). But since these characters have never been portrayed onscreen, it is a good time to cast people of varying ethnicities. The issue is when you have a character like Superman or Storm and then swap them when they've always looked a certain way. But, for me, I see no issue with Cor. I LOVE him and Daemon and don't see them as villains bc I believe, at least right now, they really are trying to make a difference whereas Viserys (I like him too but he is weak) only cares about money and the earnings of the kingdom.
Thanks for the video :D
wow, that was one of the most awesome compliments I've received! Thank you!
@@DavidLightbringer You're welcome 🥰🥰
A kid can come out as dark as his darkest parent, or as light as his lightest parent. Corlys’s father is said to be Born to the eldest son of
Lord Daemon Velaryon, Corwyn
Velaryon.
Addam of Hull was a dragon rider. He could have only got that from Corlys’s Targaryen side, so the seed has lasted generations in him since the last marriage with Targaryen’s.
Who says there are no black small folk living on Dragonstone and Driftmark? Nettles never said it.
Is it not possible the mom was a bastard Targaryen?
Nettles, as always, coming back clutch.
But that would take the whole plot of her cunning (getting the dragon using sheeps and such). Gets more amazing with her not being Valyrian or anything.
So Sheepstealer let Nettles mount him without throwing her off just because she brought him sheep? That doesn’t add up. We have never seen a dragon ridden without the rider having dragonlord blood. A never ridden dragon needs to be approached like Nettles did. She gained his trust and then her dragon seed allowed her to ride him. Else she’d be burnt and chewed like so many others.
@@acorpuscle896 Nettles was born around ~113AC on the island of Driftmark to a dockside whore. Growing up homeless, motherless, and penniless on the streets of Spicetown and Hull and somehow she became 1 out of 36 known dragonriders in the series.
TWOIAF does indeed list her as a dragonseed:
SHEEPSTEALER (Nettles): A wild dragon tamed by a dragonseed, vanished at war's end. - TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aegon II
But! Elio/Linda (who helped write TWOIAF), had this to say regarding that quote:
Question: Since TPATQ, there have been much and more (heh) discussion on whether Nettles was a dragonseed or not. However, on page 81 in WOIAF it is stated that Sheepstealer was "tamed by a dragonseed". Can and should this be taken as confirmation on Nettles dragonseed status, or is it subject to unreliable history writing?
Answer: Maester Yandel writes based on the historical record (for the most part), but that record is imperfect and often a matter of conjecture. In this specific case, Yandel and his sources subscribe to the idea that if you can tame a dragon, you must have Targaryen blood. It is, of course, circular reasoning in its way, but there is circumstantial evidence (namely that no one who is absolutely certain not to have any Targaryen blood has ever succeeded in taming a Targaryen dragon, at least so far as the historical record indicates) -Elio & Linda Reddit AMA
In what was known as the Sowing, Nettles was able to bond with Sheepstealer:
Sheepstealer was eventually tamed by Nettles-a plain, baseborn, disreputable girl who fed the dragon mutton day by day until it became used to her. The dragon and its rider played their part in the war, but Nettles's loyalties were not so clear as brave Ser Addam's. When she and Prince Daemon became lovers, it drove a final wedge between Rhaenyra and her lord husband. Nettles-whom the prince fondly called Netty-outlived her prince as well as his wife. Nettles and the Sheepstealer vanished before the war's end, and none could say where they went until years after. -TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aegon II
Dragonseeds
Of the 4 dragonseeds, outside of Nettles/Addam both being "good" and Hugh/Ulf being "bad", the only other divisor I found that separated them like this is that both Nettles/Addam are from Hull and Hugh/Ulf from Dragonstone.
Daemon Targaryen
During the first Dance of the Dragons, Daemon and Nettles spent a large amount of time together searching for Aemond/Vhagar.
You can decide for yourself what this relationship sounds like:
Yet was fear of Vhagar the only reason Prince Daemon kept Nettles close to him? Mushroom would have us believe it was not. By the dwarf’s account, Daemon Targaryen had come to love the small brown bastard girl, and had taken her into his bed.
How much credence can we give the fool’s testimony? He also wrote that Cregan Stark had a bastard sister that had sex with a Targaryen prince. But we don't even know if she is real.
Anyway, she could - in the show - just be a black Velaryon bastard wich would add a new layer to the story. Plus she could be the goddess of the Painted Dogs/Burned Men.
I have to admit, I was initially very skeptical about the black Velaryons for quite a few reasons, some of which you brought up in the video. But I have to say after watching the first few episodes, I have totally changed my mind. Especially since Steve Toussaint has been phenomenal in his role so far. You also brought up some really nice points here about how Velaryons potentially having Summer Islander heritage could make a lot of sense. Nice video :)
As a person of color this casing choice made me feel weird. Hollywood always switches race when the people spend more time in the sun. I love the show so far that being said.
Idk why people were grumpy. His dark skin and white af hair looks super beautiful. It's such a stark contrast that it's very visually stunning.
While I greatly appreciate videos like this, it annoys me that they're necessary. Any time us Black folks enter a new space, it's automatically politicized. It's exhausting constantly having to explain the legitimacy of our existence.
Thanks for an informative video!
Bless you
Yes, making Anne Boleyn black and putting black characters in Medieval Europe will lead to that.
@@blacktigerpaw1 Contrary to popular belief, medieval Europe was NOT racially homogeneous. There were, in fact, Black people in medieval Europe that were not enslaved.
Not sure what you mean by your comment, but it comes off as if you are passive-aggressivly saying we asked for it. If so, what a horrible thing to suggest. If not, disregard.
@@LaMarco0 Contrary to popular belief, genetic ancestry doesn't show that. You had maybe 4-5000 black people in all of France in the 1790s. These people left zero genetic material behind and there's little mention of them. Jews, by contrast, had extensive records of where they lived and their genetic lineage can be found.
This attempt to make Medieval Europe a multicultural environment like *today* is wrong and can be shown to be wrong *since they had human zoos in the 1880s.*
@@blacktigerpaw1 OK, so you're one of those- Not upset about the racism, just the audacity of artists to make a fictional medieval European setting "seem multicultural". Got it.
No point in continuing this. Bye.
I love the casting, the Velaryons look amazing, very outstanding and also pretty cool. I think its good that they don’t look so alike to the Targeryans while still keeping the physical traits that link them together as Valirian blood.
This is the best lore-based explanation I've heard thus far, I really like how you did this. I am opposed to this sort of swapping typically, because they don't take the time to work it out within the lore (or they completely disregard how a character is described physically in the source material). I do have questions about a trait as specific as purple eyes cropping back up by the time of the ASOIAF timeline, as the few Valaryon characters we see are depicted as phenotypically similar to Targeryens and traits like purple eyes would almost certainly be recessive. But this is good work, man. Kudos.
It’s a fantasy novel with dragons in it. They could make the character blue and it would still be able to make sense within the lore
Another reason why Corlys’s skin is darker than maybe expected is that because of several generations of incest between the Targaryen’s and Valeryons that Corlys took many of his traits from his Summer Islander parent so as to avoid many of the problems that come from incest as in cases of incest the body prioritizes brand new genes in order to make up for genetic issues.
Velaryons are NOT Dragon Riders people they don't have marry in side their to keep genes pure.
Corlis' complexion also could be explained thay their could be some Black ancestry in the Targariyans. See Queen Charlotte.
@@sophiawilson8696 however they have been marrying the Targaryen’s for decades if not centuries before this. Your right in that they don’t have to but they still choose to do this leading to many different generations of intermarrying between the two families.
@J B ok Sir or Miss the problem in the show there no showing of the Summer Islands or what was Valaryia for 5000 years before the Doom. It reasonable the Valaryia had some deals with Summer Islands People. Like I said before they not Dragon Riders. They can marry any one they want to. Also Targaryens weren't so pure in breeding after marrying their siblings, they screw with any thing heart beat look all those bastards with sliver hair in crownlands. There is Black Pearl, Ser Brown Plumm etc and Davos friend from Lys please look up these characters.
@J B Valeria was an Empire. I am sure there were people of many races in that empire as in every Empire in human history and Just like All those other Empires I am sure many of those people came to live in the imperial homeland. Empires breed aristocrats, Aristocrats always import labor some of that imported labor always rise into the Aristocracy over time and wherever there is imported labor there is eventually mixed race children.
when i saw the trailer i literally didnt even give it a second fckn thought that they casted them as people of color. like omfg does it REALLY matter that much?
Some people just want the show to reflect their bigotry. The Targaryen white & Valerian black who have family ties makes the shows flavour much richer and highlights the difference between peoples of Valayria & Westeros
even if this was straight up contradicting to lore, like I thought at first, they still look epic as fuck.
(to clarify, I thought this didn't make ANY sense when it was first announced, but seeing how badass Corlys looked I had no problem with it)
Oh how kind of you to allow it. Y’all are something else. If you want hueless Velaryons read the books. Y’all have Black Excellence gracing your screens.. be grateful ✊🏾
Damn, honestly thank you for making this video. I will admit, when I first saw the casting I did think “wait, does this make sense for the general canon?” But, the ideas you lay out here such as House Velaryon having familial connections with the Summer Isles makes complete sense. Honestly I hope it’s the case, since that would be a fantastic way to bring the Summer Isles more into the show
The summer islander theory makes so much sense, since the white valyrian hair is not a reccessive trait.
"Fantasy has always been overly white"... no? The fantasy you know is white. Because it mainly is drawn from white people and "white" cultures (mainly Europe), in a mostly white society ("western" world at large). There are tremendous african fantasy authors who draw from, you guessed it, african cultures (African Speculative Fiction Society is a goldmine for people willing to give it a try) . I doubt you hear a lot of people in Africa say "fantasy is overly black". Chinese fantasy is VERY chinese, specifically, Han chinese (thank you Mao...). Japanese fantasy themes tend to be more confounding, because of the mutual fascination they have with France for a percieved image of refinement, rigid castes and noble people holding castles (among other things).
Now regarding the monolithic nature of races in the medieval era... both sides of the political spectrum are a bit on a bender here. While the middle-ages certainly weren't an aryan eugenics' proponent wet dream, they weren't a depiction of american society either. Even to this day most rural people in Europe can spend their life without actually seeing a black person (which is something I find hillarious in a sad way. Most people preaching the doom of the country because of immigration have never even met a single immigrant in their life). Mixity, today and yesterday, happened in active cities. More today than in medieval times, for obvious reasons (technology, safety, economy,...). And we have to consider that less than 10% of people lived in cities (let alone cities open to international trade). 80 to 90% of people were farmers.
All in all, your phrase "In the end, any change you make adapting a story will be based on how well it works for the story" is the most important part of all these needless debates. From a purely internal standpoint, changes have to work within the confines of a setting. Black Velaryons work. They make sense. I will even say it makes the story richer in themes and doors to cultural aspects of the peoples of the setting. In a way it reminds me of one of the medieval versions of the Tales of Arthur (a 14th century middle-dutch manuscript version) in which the knights of the round table are more diverse than today's US Congress, since some moors and half-moors are among Arthur's knights (chief of which, Ser Morien).
There is, however, a side of the discussion I would eagerly see taken more seriously. I'm becoming really tired of having to defend myself from my own "political leaning" when it comes to diversity on the grounds that I should just be happy and shut up to not give grounds to "the enemy". I myself am part of a minority, and consider it highly insulting to have that identifier exploited by companies for a quick buck and twitter level praise (mission accomplished, we ticked a box), while it still not being considered worthy of actual decent writing or new characters. Minorities don't get characters, at large, but easter eggs for marketable fan service. We have an expression in my language that says "you can't have the milk, the butter, the proceeds and then fuck the milkmaid on top of it". Time companies heard that I think. Because in the end, that's what reinforces the position of a biggot: diverse characters DO have a history of being shitty easter-eggs tacked on with no depth. Not because they're diverse. But because that diversity wasn't deemed worthy of a story.
i can't exactly comment on the whole Carribean diaspora at large, but both my girlfriend and best friend are 1/4 Jamaican and their mothers are both 1/2 Jamaican, and their mothers both look just straight up black like i never would have guessed they weren't fully Carribean. So that's food for thought on the issue of Corlys' skin being 'too dark' to be mixed, also his children have a very similar skin tone to my girlfriend and best friend, so to me it makes a lot of sense
The targaryeans have purple eyes in the books. If it doesn't bother you that the actors don't have purple eyes, it's because you value the skin color more. And it's important to recognize that bias, its ok to have biasis but let's not pretend it's anything more
I have a bigger issue with the extras than I do with Corly.
There's way too many different ethnicites mixed in and it makes me ask a lot of questions since there's really none in GoT.
Like what happened to them?
Were they genocided...?
It does break immersion imo.
Corly is just one guy tho and there's fairly reasonable explanations for it, there's no reasonable explanation why the citizens are as mixed as they are ( even including handmaidens ).
It stands out to me much more and people have clearly been divided by ethnicity in Martin's setting, it's not a fantasy setting where every population is mixed ( I also seriously doubt they'd do this with representations of African nations, they wouldn't mix in light-skinned people and Asians lets be real here... It's totally one-sided )
@@jag764, They're in kings landing, which is a very popular city that sees a lot of international trade. Like in every popular city involved in global trade, you will have many different people from different backgrounds. Also, why didn't people question it when we saw white people in Qarth, Meereen and other Slaver's bay cities? Why is it always an issue when we see Non-whites in primarily white places but not a problem when we see white people in mostly Non-white areas?
@@jag764 it is one sided but not in the way you think. God's of Egypt the Moses story featured mostly white actors. Not a single Egyptians or dark skin person was in the main cast, moses was played by christisn bale. Ever hear of pirates of the carribean? You think thats what people in the carribean look like? Head to the dominican republic and tell me if you find kiera knightleys all over they place. And that's off the top of my head. But I'll humor you. so ask yourself why is it one-sided? I'm not aware of any fantasy properties being developed around an African setting. Could that be why it seems one sided? Is it possible that for the last 70 decades people of darker skin color have been traditionally left out of representations in the media? So now you're seeing them more and it seems one sided? I think it is "one sided " as you say. The actor playing the king has a dark 5 o'clock shadow, they can only do so much to cover it up, but it's pretty obvious, even his eyebrows are dark brown. But no one mentions that because he has the correct skin color. Skin or hair color its just a physical characteristic, but people seem to be talking a lot more about thebskin color. Why? Because that's what they value more. The eye color can be wrong, the hair may not match, the accent might be off, but the skin color is "correct" and we value that more than those other characteristics.
Dude have you ever considered becoming an attorny? You’re skill at rhetoric and asserting counter narrative is fucking kick ass….(seriously).👍👏
Xaro Xhoan Daxos was casted as black but he wasn't bashed because his character doesn't affect the storyline whether he's black or white.
apparently black people can be pirates but not dragonlords according to the racists
Great video, as per usual.
I think one of the main reasons they chose to make House Velaryon Black was for viewers to easily differentiate the Velaryons to the Targaryens. Which may explain why they gave Rhaenys silver hair instead of black. Just makes it easier for casual viewers to follow.
After seeing some ASOIAF fan art, I understand why some people may be confused had they all been white with silver hair. When you add the similar Valyrian names on top of that, I get it.
Both options you presented are very interesting and I’m eager to see which option the show will go with.
Even if it weren't book accurate, I wouldn't care that much.
Love this video. Going to go and check out a couple more of your videos.
Get to the damn point and explain why he’s good for the part and not just saying why you think people are racist for not wanting it to be like the original.
hey Jolly if you have a problem with literally 60 seconds of calling out racists, I'm guessing you're a goddam racist. No one else minds, to be frank
because normal fucking people, see, we don't have an issue with calling out racism. it's important to do. You're telling on yourself
I was very reticent at first because i was sure they were going to introduce a black character with no context or explenation (like they do in many medieval/ realistic fantasy settings adaptations), which imo really breaks the immersion. But if they go the route you've highlighted I'm all for it! we get a look into a fascinating culture unseen in GoT and perhaps more material for the eventual sea snake spin off i've been hearing about. All in all i'm for diversity if it is done right
Exactly!
The lack of a logical explanation is what bothers me, if there is indeed a explanation like the one in the video it’s going to be very interesting
There were black people living and working in Europe during the entire Medieval Period. I often wonder if people think Shakespeare invented black people when he wrote Othello One half Black man who was the son of the Pope, Alessandro de' Medici, was the Duke of Florence and a member of the most powerful European Family of his time in the 14th century, there were mixed race members of the Portuguese Royal family documented as early as the 13th century the Moors conquered Spain in 711ad and brought thousands of black and mixed race military soldiers with them. We all know what soldiers do off duty. So we can expect that there were thousands of half black children born 10 to 13 months after the moors invaded. A Ethiopian Dr was working in Rome during the plague. Venice had a whole neighborhood where black African traders and Sailors lived in the 10th century . There are graves of Black African Roman legionnaires buried in England and the Vikings were selling European Captives to Arab and Ethiopian slave traders all through the Viking raider period . Real European history is nothing like TV and Movie European history.
@@aquila4228 Here is one, Valeria was an empire, like every empire in human history there was no doubt people of many races in it. The Imperial homeland no doubt imported labor to the imperial homeland just like every other Empire that ever existed. Wherever there is imported labor there are mixed race children and a few laborer families who eventually rise to the aristocracy through blood, marriage and or industry. The Present Queen of England has one known black ancestor and Prince Harry and Prince William have an ancestor from India through their mother Princess Diana's blood line. Why can't fantasy reflect real life ?
There are plenty of articles and text supporting the fact that in medieval Europe there were black/brown/people of color, living there as full members of society! Though in today's time countries are more of a melting pot than ever, there was still diversity back then too, so it shouldn't break the immersion to see black characters in medieval/fantasy pieces when in fact, it's more accurate. So simply adding these characters with no explanation is still diversity done right! Also using realistic and fantasy in the same sentence is a bit tricky being they mean the complete opposite. It's always baffled me being a huge fantasy/medieval fan, when people are confused over the presence of black characters but when there are ice zombies and dragons, no questions asked lol! Amazing video btw!
@@karc3i bless you
One thing to remember about GOT: "The Seed Is Strong" - all of Robert's children have black hair, like him. It's not that unusual for an African to have a mixed-race child that's dark by American standards. It might be a streeetch to say someone as dark as Toussaint would be mixed with recent white-skinned European genes, but it's not outside the realm of possibility in the real world, but in the world of Ice and Fire, black skin may be an immutable trait among that particular bloodline.