$30 Knockoff Dyno Tested vs $130 Real Batteries on High Torque: ForScience 4
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Our lifetime of TOOL RANKINGS torquetestchan...
Get a reasonable XR5.0 here: amzn.to/3xIZ0pb & not bad when buying 2: shrsl.com/2zrxu Do fake knockoff batteries make enough beans to keep up with real ones? With the deep discount you might be willing to give it a try - so we do for you!
~We earn from qualifying purchases when using the affiliate links here~
You're correct if you were thinking to yourself "the past tense of cost is cost, not costed" Apologies, luckily the gauges do most of the thinking on the channel and we just point a camera at them.
Gshock
why not make your own battery? looks like battery cells can be bought individually easily enough, if you are feeling froggy use the fake battery pack as a donor and make some insane pack or something.
Costed was good with me.
@@thelasthallow tbh that is incredibly tempting.
Especially so with 3D printing being available, you could cook up some monster packs.
12.0's on all my dewalt tools... keeps my biceps pumped. Oh yeaahh!!!
And wallet empty. Oh yeaahh!!!
I have some 6AH and 8AH legit Dewalt 20V and they work great but I need your bicepts to carry them around all day. I prefer the 4AH for the drill and impact because I keep one in my hand thru the day. Something to be said about the 8AH and 12AH legit Dewalt cells for performance but holy cripes they are extremely dangerous to the bank account.
From my experience with brushless RC cars and lipo batteries, capacity makes a power difference in a high load condition, provided we are comparing the same or similar cells, just more of them in parallel. Not only do you get longer run time, but they maintain a higher voltage delivery under load (less droop) which is where the “more power” is felt.
I definitely buy the knock-offs, they're fine for the lower draw tools which are the majority of my tools. I don't need an 800 pound gorilla battery to power my drill, tire inflator, work light etc. The knock offs do still have a decent amp hour capacity so they last a long time they just don't deliver the instantaneous power.
The only real problem with the knock off's is cycle duty tends to be far lower. I tend to keep a few around as well for lights and things like that, but they regularly die far more frequently than regular. Pure speculation would be 3 knockoff's tend to average slightly fewer duty cycles than 1 oem at least for the Makita I use. So while I'm still saving a few $ still, the cost savings over the long haul is pretty insignificant. That said, I still feel far less bad throwing on of those in the car to sit for months on end as an emergency road side sort of thing than I do the expensive batteries. As with anything electronic, YMMV.
I think this is key for generic batteries. They are fine (mostly) for low amp draw. But when you put them under high load they can't deliver the amps and they underperform, get hot, and fail early. I tried and gave up on generics because putting them under high load even once can burn them out.
I use the shady fake ones for flashlights.
yup or a radio. low drain applications.
I read that as fleshlights at first.
I’m on team red and don’t have any fake ones but I do have an old M18 that really doesn’t cut it anymore for use in power tools, but it’s great for the LED work light.
are they head mounted flashlights???
@@jabroni6199 find somebody who rebuild batteries. Just replace cell and keep the control board.
I hope this video blows up because this is a good subject to be looking into.
I also don't understand why this channel doesn't have 100k subs yet. The content is awesome!
It'll come😉
This guy is project farm with more granular stuff, I freakin love it!
@@fisqual I agree
It will come, they are relatively new.. keep up the great work! Love their content.
If Amazon and eBay alone would require accurate and truthful Amp-hour ratings, the fake battery market would become honest or collapse.
Definitely use for radios/lights instead of tools.
Assuming you get the capacity that's advertised, they're just as likely to throw in any spare batteries they have lying around as what's supposed to be in there!
@@TorqueTestChannel the rule of thumb with these batteries is 66%. if it says its a 6 its a 4.
@@MrSGL21 thats what I was figuring
I was surprised the voltage drop on the 4 amp/hr battery occurred so soon. However as you stated many times before, the ten second test is most significant for real world applications.
10 sec doesn't change the results at all. It's still too weak to remove a fastener that needs all the torque possible.
Try those generic batteries on a hammer drill, however. Big, noticeable difference.
"Taking the DeWalt apart involves unscrewing these tamper proof torx."
Immediately procceds to tamper.
tamper-resistant torq/allen have a pin in the middle, and the bit kits with them aren't hard to find. they just keep honest people honest
@@Hyratel am aware lol. Just poking fun at the choice of words 🤣.
I have that DeWalt impact and I'm pretty happy with it. Only went with it because I already had a bunch of other tools that used that battery. So far, I've only had 1 bolt that it couldn't get off and that ended up needing a giant breaker bar with a 5 foot pipe slid over it to get enough leverage to bust loose. So, I can't really blame the DeWalt for not getting that off. It also seems to be significantly stronger than my Craftsman air impact.
Confirm all our field experience.
I used DeFake on low draw power tools that is used by day Crew .
I’m not heartbroken if those DeFake is abused and drop
Or
Develop legs n walk away
I'd be curious to see flexvolt packs vs 20v packs for science. I think the high torque gets down with a sexy flexy hooked to it.
I would like to see the difference as well!
Same!
It would be the same on the same voltage tools. The batteries just make different serial/parallel connections across the tabs when plugged into different tools. They'll have the same cells which is where the limitation is. You could buy the empty battery packs and use different cells to upgrade power or storage. The ones dewalt uses (INR 25R) are 20A 2500ah. You could use INR 20S cells and have 30A 2000ah for more output power or Sony VT6 cells to have 20A 3000ah for more storage. It's a little bit complicated because cell discharge is usually rated at current to capacity and not just straight max current, that's why the 4ah has less output than the 5ah. If you found an LTO battery with the same capacity it would have probably 10x the output of any of the lithium ion batteries, but would just be bulkier.
@@plebiansociety not true, i own flexvolt tools as well as the 18v/20v and it definitely makes a difference, you can hear the motor spin slightly faster so I'd put money on it being more powerful
@@thomasdoherty6876 you can totally feel the power difference. It has more to do with the chip in the flex, kind of like my cheap smok vape compared to my high end ones with a DNA chip 🤣
To be entirely honest even in automotive repair use the fake one makes more than enough power for anything you might need on the go. At 30 bucks, absolute bargain. If I have the choice between carrying 1 of those dewalt originals or 3 of these, I'd go 3 of the fake ones any day of the week.
This is a good and informative video. It almost always comes down to the old adage, “You get what you pay for.” And the case with batteries is buy OEM, and as cheap as you can! Unless you’re out of town on a job, or all your batteries just died, NEVER buy just one, or pay the regular price! The DeWalt XR 5.0 is a very good battery, borne out here in the tests. The newer XR 4.0 high output batteries are very good, and the XR 6.0 and 8.0 high output batteries are outstanding. Stay safe and Healthy! 👍👍👍😁✌🏻🇺🇸
I think you had a good point these knockoff batteries are great for radios, flashlights and other things that dont really pull to much juice.
I dropped my knock-off once, and the case is made of the most brittle plastic in the history of the world.
Recycled sewer pipe ABS plastique
Great point, we'll test that next time we use one
@@TorqueTestChannel maybe Milwaukee knock-offs will at least have rubber bumpers on them? But Milwaukee's small M12's are a bit brittle too.
@@TorqueTestChannel I have 2 Milwaukee fakes from eBay, that I use occasionally for my impact wrench. Want to test them?
so is the original one, just got to drop it at the right angle
i got tired of the battery case breaking from use on vehicles that i just made a rubber boot for each battery, i know you can buy the mac tools boot but it hasnt proven useful for me
Real world experience is confirmed here by a test, nice one!
My knock off battery is better nowadays than my tired 5ah dewalt, but other than that the feel I had for the power was exactly as you've shown, thanks!
I bought a DeWalt 5ah battery off of Ebay for $55 several years ago. It looks like a factory battery from DeWalt, but It's finally wore out and I took it apart to replace the 18650 cells inside. I was disappointed to find out that the cells were 2000mah cells, making my 5ah battery pack a 4ah. The cells are Samsung and are 20a rated cells, but I got ripped off somehow. The replacement 18650 cells I bought are 20a discharge rated and 2500mah cells, so when I rebuild it, it will be a 5ah pack.
300 cycles to 70% capacity is typical for 18650 cells. Remember that a cycle is a *full* charge/discharge cycle. If you drain the battery to 50% and then charge it, that's only 1/2 a cycle.
I don't use my DeWalt tools for work any longer. Just to tinker around in the basement hobby shop. These "DeFake" ones run my saws-all, 6" skillsaw all pretty well. My Saws-all was Ni-Cd (18v) and is several years old. With the DeWalt 20v to 18v adapter these knock-offs have brought new life to that old saws-all. Love your content!!!!
Same here for a Craftsman Pass-Thru auto-ratchet!
I bought some "6.0Ah" FauxWalt batteries. Took them apart and after searching for datasheet found they were using "Henan Prospower Tech" 2.0Ah cells, so were just 4.0Ah battery packs. Interestingly, two identical knockoffs I ordered had different color heat shrink on the cells, but same numbering. Guess it's a lottery of what you actually get inside, even if you order the same thing.
I have a 6.0ah fake dewalt 20v well 18v here in England and it works well enough for my reciprocating saw. I don't expect the battery to last a long time but know for the price that it has limited lifespan but plenty good enough to cut up old pallets for firewood.
@@emmarowley1096 I use the cheapy batteries on a portable shop vacuum. A shop vac is probably the one power tool (after OPE) that will quickly discharge a battery, so I'd rather just fully cycle and kill the cheap batts than genuine ones.
Can we see a comparison with a flex volt 9ah battery to a normal 5ah battery for the dewalt pleeeassee
It would be interesting to pull the Dewalt logic board off a good stock battery and solder them onto the "fake" and see if it does any better and vice versa.
"Some" of the loss in power from the cheap cells comes from thinner solder tabs between cells and the size of wire from the Plus and Minus. Most of the loss is the crappy cells they use but I still own a few of the cheapo knock offs.
Looks like great value based on this, although lucky you got one with branded cells
Would love to see more tests regarding electronics and in depth test equipment on your channel just like the opening the batteries and looking at their circuit boards…and flashlight integrating sphere build! testing. There’s a huge need for that stuff on RUclips!
That’s what really put “AvE” on the map. Not just testing tools but getting into the electronics with oscilloscopes and test equipment!
Can you test knock off tools with and without knock off battery’s
Deal.
Good idea!
@@TorqueTestChannel Subscribed. Love that you reply to viewer suggestions. I look forward to this test. Cheers.
Great video. I rebuild battery pack all the time. And this is something I always wanted to test
Power alone is an important factor when determining what to buy, however cost per unit, for many of us, is equally important.
You can find deals on OEM Dewalt batteries. Large stores like Home Depot and Walmart want $140-$150 for a 20V, 5.0Ah OEM Dewalt battery. I purchased a brand new in original, unopened packaging on EBAY for $70 with free shipping. No joke, I have another arriving shortly.
It will be interesting to see how the power stack battery packs last. They're using Lipo instead of Li-ion batteries. Lipo batteries can put out a lot more amps than Li-ion, so the tool should feel more powerful, but lipo batteries wear out much faster than Li-ion does and lipos really do not like to stay charged for long periods of time. DeWalt doesn't have a storage charge feature on their battery chargers. If they did, the batteries could last for a lot longer than they will by sitting either dead or fully charged.
The amp rating certainly does make a difference in the torque a given tool can deliver.
if everything else is equal and no third-party weak chain and the power tool is able to take advantage (not maxing) then a higher amp rated cell (more cells) will give a higher torque rating.
also what we are seeing on tools where we can compare apples to apples.
Like a Parkside 400nm ½ impacts wrench where we got both a 4Amp pack and a 2A pack with the exact same cells in both, and same battery circuit,
the 4Amp battery pack delivers way more toque and not just on impact wrenches same on angle grinders where it doesn't stall as easily etc.-
but it needs to be apples to apples.
and also what I'm seeing on fx LIPO cells, on spot welder that is In parallel and the same LIPO packs I get way higher amp and deeper spot welds if I parallel with two of the same packs.
but you can easily validate this, use some of your basic adapter, that is more or less a pass-thrue and put an amp meter in the chain (an 8USD 150A RC amp meter will do the job) it will show peak amp and all these aspects and possible voltage drop that will occure on cheap cells, its the voltage drop / and heat that will tumble INR/IMR chem.
Hey fellas, it's "Underwriters Laboratories"!! But good job checking for certs on the cells!
My partner has a lot of tools, so when he needed a circular saw, I ordered this one for him as a Christmas gift. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxYDKeIjKLOfcwTgdin7TtCutsz4MbIc43 He is incredibly happy with the purchase. He stated that he likes that it is powerful, but still easy to use and cuts very well. He mentioned that it is important to know the right tools for the job at hand, and this compact saw has been exactly what he needed for a variety of projects at his rental properties and renovations. He also appreciates the battery packs, as stated, he owns a lot of DEWALT tools, so he is able to always keep batteries charged as needed.
This guy and project farm are amazing resources
I bought a generic 4Ah battery for my Ryobi drill and impact driver and it seems to produce about the same as the 2Ah's that came with the tool. I recently picked up a pair of Ryobi 4Ah batteries and while I haven't used the tools yet with those batteries the tools sound much livelier than before. I might take that generic apart and put some decent 18650's in it just to see what that's like. What the hell I'm going to have to outlive Methuselah already to finish the projects I've already started so a couple more won't hurt.
The quality becomes even more visible after more recharge cycles
The limiting factor will be the series resistance of the cells. Bigger cells often have lower series resistance and, hence, on high power tools the bigger cells maintain a higher voltage under the same conditions.
Higher capacity batteries tend to have lower internal resistance which allows more current to flow for charging and discharging
And I'm not exaggerating when I said I have gotten two years out of power extra batteries at the dealership they have been phenomenal quality.
In my own experience knock off batteries are the way to go
I'm not surprised. It's basic physics and logic. That big of a draw is going to pull the V down on a lesser capacity battery. It's why I got a 5Ah for the big boy impact.
Great stuff thank for the time invested in the project, and the info I was looking for.
Definitely subscribed and will check out some more of your content.
I'd like to see a 'custom' pack, where you take a gin-u-wine DeWalt battery and replace the cells with whatever -should- (on paper) be the best cells available and if it can take advantage of them.
Well a double pack of the 5A regular $269 CAD and goes on sale for $149.99, so worth the buy compared to the 2A packs you get when you buy the DeWalt drill kits
Switch the battery controller between fake and real. Just in case. Those were contributing factor
How about a test comparing the real 5ah to the 6ah with larger cells?
You can buy the after-market ( not fake, not "knock-off") battery and replace the cells with Samsumg 25r cells you still save 50%.
I’m surprised you were surprised by the difference between the 4 and 5 Ah packs. The discharge rate of a lithium-ion cell is rated in C… which is a multiplier of the capacity of the cell. So, a 20C cell with a capacity of 1000 mAh, can (or should) maintain 20 amps of current. If you have a 1200mAh cell, you get 24 amps. If they were 25C cells, the numbers would be 25 and 30 amps, respectively.
cells used in 4ah packs have 22a cont discharge rate (11C) while cells used in 5Ah packs have 20a rate (8C). So they had every right to be surprised
Have you tried using the Flexvolt batteries with the Dewalt tools? I know they fit the standard 20 volt tools
Can you test torque sticks for accuracy? Specifically the ones from Hazard fraught.
I'm curious as well
Basically the higher capacity battery is able to sustain a better peak voltage before it drop so more power
From now on, I'm going to refer to connecting batteries as "strapping on".
Have an older makita 18 v. Battery went south. Was almost 80 bucks for a makita battery. Saw the knock off on Amazon. 34 bucks . 6 ah. Works fine. Happy . Cant hurt that drill.
Never bought a snide battery but seen pro carpenters use them in their impact screwdrivers and combi drills to good effect ,value for money wise - but not as good as the real ones in power/durability. If you're skint, go for it, they do the job.
I think the difference in the 4AH and 5AH legit batteries is the test is long enough to stress the batteries and you’re seeing a loss in power. Your rig measures a build up of power over time with the more powerful blows at the beginning and tapering off over time. It does not read an instantaneous power measurement and seeing them both build together and then the 4AH slow down on building seems correct as max power is the same per blow but one can do it longer. Try prestressing the bolts with a wrench to 300psi or so and then then pulling the trigger for 15 seconds. See if they both can do better.
Love the channel. Thanks for the comparisons.
For an impact-tool the only thing that matters is the rpm of the hammer as that combined with the spring adds more energy to the hits.
Higher discharge capability allows higher voltage out of the cell and thus more rpm. Analysing the sound could work to determine the beats pr minute to verify my claim here.
The biggest problem with the knockoffs from what I have heard from a construction worker wasn't that the output may be a little less but the lifespan. He said he had many that where useless after a few months!
Holding good voltage under load is important, but amp hours are just as important. A powerful battery you have to charge too often is pretty worthless.
Great test! I was surprised to find Samsung 18650 cells in a "Forte" branded 20V impact driver just I got on Amazon for $37.
assuming ofcourse those are real samsungs.
@@MrSGL21 True... they look legit to me though! They are 15amp, not the higher ones.
All the major players bin their cells and grade them, the grade A cells almost always go to the commercial battery pack contracts but anything grade B or lower can end up on the Grey market bought in bulk and end up anywhere in anything, battery mooch has some videos discussing cells :)
You went all Mcguyver to shock your sister... I saved my allowance and bought a cattle prod from Tractor Supply. 😂 Sister stopped picking on me after only two shock therapy events. 😂
thanks for this video. you can buy battery kits off ebay/amazon. they come with no instructions. however this knock off you took apart has the same pcb and wires as my kit. i got my balance leads solded in and the meter solder in properly thanks to this video.
made a xr wanabe 4.0 with scavanged 2.0 cells from a ryobi 40v pack.
In the RC world, battery discharge current is measured in C. C times your pack's amp hour rating is the current you can safely draw. A 30C 2ah pack can discharge 60 amps, a 75C 1ah pack can discharge 75 amps, a 5C 5ah pack can discharge 25 amps, etc. It would be interesting to hack up some high amp, high C RC packs, and convert them to tool batteries.
Pretty sure that can be done. What voltage do the batteries run at? 12?
@@dustin4575 RC batteries are measured a little differently than tool batteries. TL:DR - They would want 5s batteries for that DeWalt, which translates to 18.5 volts nominal.
@@TheVexCortex strange. So I looked it up and the cells run at 3.7v just like 18650 and 21700
Some of the "Genuine" batteies for sell at a lower than normal price. Are several years old. Not covered by warranty.
The differences from 4 ah to 5 ah is the number of cells allowing the load to spreed more even over all the cells and maintaining an average higher power output.
4 and 5ah have same number of cells
@@TorqueTestChannel That i am out of answers, maybe it has to do with the individual load-capacity ration on each cell for spreading out the power draw.
Just got an ad for one of the snakey bit driver extensions. Any chance you guys could test the torque loss of one of those? I have absolutely zero use for the results, but think it would make a cool video.
need to test the new 15ah Dewalt battery coming out soon
So a flexvolt 12ah is going to make even more power?! 🤔 y'all gotta test this out! Please!
I've known a couple of guys with the same dewalt dcf899 as me and they have all said mine hits harder - the only difference being I run a flexvolt 9ah battery.
It makes perfect sense as a larger cell or a same size cell with a higher current ratings (not necessarily aH rating) will hold a higher voltage underload.
The higher the voltage under load the higher the motor speed, the higher the motor speed the faster the hammers are moving = more torque output.
I dunno, i made my own battery pack with the ryobi and it performs way better than the manufacturer battery ever did.. i just used the board that the ryobi packs come with inside, de soldered the batteries it had on it and used laptop battery cells also doubling up the amount making a 10ah super choocher pack.. i also changed out some of the caps for beefier ones along with some diodes to meet the new amp draw potential and left the charge circuit alone.. battery still charges with the ryobi charger and actually still stabilizes the cells uniformly. Added another thermistor so the thing doesnt tesla out on me randomly and removed the short circuit fuse for a push to reset.. thing is bigger than the friggn drill but will snap lug nuts off if you dont watch.. And lasts a full 8 hour day when im on tire jockey duty... i would love to see its spec with your setup.. however the frankenbattery if used for 15 seconds straight would most likely smoke a motor or shear a paw inside the head, i didnt limit the output and like i was saying, it removes lugs with a single pull every time... and tightening if you hold the trigger rather than feather it, in all of 2 or 3 seconds it has broken 5 studs so far.. all 5 were not on purpose and cost me some time having to knock out and replace the things.. but somebody on the ttc team is an electronics engineer though right? Yall should try making a battery some time.. using the ryobi circuit layout for me was the way to go.. theres more in their batteries than in the tools themselves... way more..
You are the tire jockey of every exotic car owner's nightmares.
If you have the skills and intelligence to figure that all out, your wasting your time changing tires.
lol, laptop cells.
@@jaywelker5566 you do know that the 18650 was originally designed for laptops right?
Fun fact, these brand names don't make any of their tools or batteries. They're outsourced to like 2 or 3 factories in Shenzhen, Guangdong. The "fake" batteries aren't fake, they're just unbranded from the same factory with an industry standard case and terminal connector. Most of the unbranded stuff are resold factory rejects with less than specified output, so they can't put the branding on the product. I'd like to see more people actually doing some parts source research before throwing out politically and financially charged words like "fake" or "counterfit". 90% of the electronics and tool market comes from South East Asia and China. The terms "counterfit" or "fake" are used by multi-billion dollar corporations to hide the fact they outsourced everything they sell to Asia. So you don't buy the exact same tools/electronics for a fraction of the cost on the Asian industrial market.
But you can see they use smaller gauge wire too so it's not the same. This is especially true with fake chargers that are a fire harzard.
Thanks for pointing out this level of counterfeitery exists. Now I can just buy the stuff that doesn't suck.
What a fantastic video doing the world a public service of keeping the people informed.👍🏻
You want to start to include internal resistance readings of the battery packs both before and after use, you should quickly find out which units will perform even before you dyno test it as the internal
Resistance of the packs with the highest performance should be the ones with the lowest internal resistance readings. I use IR to age the packs
You should do something on price/amp hour. Not the Listed Amp hour but a Legit test to show actual Amp hour capacity. We will have to take a slight consideration for the number of cycles into account at some point as well. For light impact usage I like the cheap-skate non legit De-fakes. I also do not store the batteries in my hot ass car or boiling hot shed as that will take a lot of life out of the cells.
I dont have a fancy torque tester but I can easily feel the difference between 2 3 4 5 ah batteries in drills/impacts. Higher capacity allows better continued high output discharge. a 5ah 18v battery may drop to 17v under load while a 2ah 18 battery would see a more significant drop to maybe 15.
I picked up a cheap battery for my hitachi 18v tools and although the capacity was a lie (2ah vs the advertised 3ah) the knock off pack had genuine samsung cells in it. So i couldn't complain.
Some of these packs, even if the cells are ok, have some truly horrendous construction. Like bad spot welds ready to come apart, or even broken spot welds making for an intermittent connection, a dead battery after a drop, or even a smoking battery after a drop because insulation is missing in important areas.
Thanks again guys for the great video keep it coming!
Conclusion: pay 15 bucks for an empty fakewalt case and bms and buy you own cells. For 30 bucks less than the Dewalt you could use Sony VT6 and have 7.5ah at the same amperage, or for about 100 dollars less use Samsung INR 20s and have 50% more amperage at the same 5ah capacity. You could even get crazy and just use the top of the case, get LTO cells and bms and not only have a battery with a cycle life 50-100 times longer than the Dewalt but a max discharge rate 5 times higher, it would just have to be about 20% bigger for the same capacity but still would be a couple bucks cheaper than the Dewalt but you would have to make your own bottom part of the battery case, but you'll probably only have to do it once because at 10k to 50k cycles even if you use it daily it will probably outlive you.
No point in 5x the discharge rate, the tools aren't designed to use that much current.
@@DoubleMonoLR it's also 5x the charge rate
That fake Lithium Ion 5 AH is exactly what I ordered for a few extra and it works fairly well vs the price. I mostly use it in a drill, 1/4 inch impact, axial blower and the LED light. I have no issues. For my circular saw, recip saw and 1/2 Inch impact I use 5 to 8 Amp Hour legit Dewalt packs. My mom also uses the cheap packs in the dewalt blower and lawn string trimmer and for 1.5 years she has had no issues but she is not trying to torque a 18 wheeler tire either. I got them for low impact use and they fit the bill for price/use vs the legit dewalt prices that are a little cheaper on ebay and amazon rather than Lowe's and Home Depot. I guess you could say I have been raked over the coals by amazon rather than Lowe's and Home Depot. I do prefer Lowe's because I get a 10% military discount.
I buy batteries from cannon batteries. They aren’t 26 bucks but they work well. Batteries are say over priced when you buy the brand ones.
I bought a bunch of these over the years their runtime typically is a bit shorter but only on high current draw tools do I notice a difference. The major thing I've noticed is their lifespan is not near as long as a factory branded battery. But for all my high current tools I use the flex volt 6 and 9 amp hour batteries.
The four amp hour battery is being discharged more quickly than the five amp hour battery and loses enough energy in the test to lower the voltage and therefore lower the amperage. Notice how close the graph traces are for the first portion of the test. If you had measured the voltage after the test I can guarantee the four amp hour pack had a lower voltage. Been messing with Lithium batteries since 1983.
Makes me want to tack weld my own battery using 21700 cells, but I’m not one for burning down the shed
Video ideas
1. Buy 3 brand new identical tools, run against each other to see if there is any variance.
2. Get 3 identical model tools but of various run hours to see how wear effects power output. Brand new to very worn.
I would never, ever, buy a "genuine" brand-name tool battery from Amazon. Outright counterfeiting of high-margin items like that is rampant, and because of Amazon "inventory pooling" you don't *actually* get to choose which seller you buy from. The chance that a "DeWalt" battery being offered at a significant discount vs. say, Home Depot is genuine is quite low.
DeWalt is the one imposing most of the markup, not the retailer, so a significantly-discounted battery is either inexplicably being sold at a steep loss, stolen, or, most-likely, counterfeit.
Those left hand thread bolts at the end make my head hurt.
2/3rds of our tests are with left hand threaded bolts!
Actually preferred the balance leads on the knock off over the bare wires in the genuine pack.
We use nothing but Dewalt on jobsites. 20v-60v. If we’re running large draw tools like hammer drills, hole hogs, compressors, etc., we use the 60v batteries exclusively. Those all being genuine Dewalt. As for the lower 20v batteries we have half Dewalt, half knock off. The reality is the knock offs run the tools just fine. The real world benefit to them is on a busy jobsite where its almost impossible to always keep your eyes on all your equipment its not a big deal if you lose a 30$ battery. That can’t be said for the real Dewalt batteries. We run 2-3 quad fast charge setups all day every day we work. The genuine Dewalt are obviously better, but the knockoffs work just fine. Currently have a couple dozen of the knock offs, I’ve yet to replace one.
i used a fake 18-volt battery on my Dewalt grinder and under load it burned up melted the wiring inside the grinder was fine and went right on working with a real battery
i had gotten the dewalt lithium set for the impact driver, it lasted me about a month, went from 4-5 hrs of use to 30 seconds in that time... i think it was the 2.5 ah ones with the charger... for the money i could have bought 5 knock off batteries...
I've done some internal battery current testing with my DCF899 (and other Dewalt tools) and I found that the tool limits the current from the battery to around 22.4 Amps. Using a range of Dewalt batteries, including one eBay fake, I found that the biggest difference was *voltage sag*, which affects overall tool power. The voltage sag comes from the internal battery resistance, which is best in the high quality LG/Samsung cells, but not so great in the eBay knockoffs. Interestingly, the DCBP034 Powerstack battery voltage sag (2.55v) was about the same as my best battery, the DCB206 6Ah unit (2.53v), while the eBay knock-off was *much* higher (5.4v), all at the same 22.4A peak current. Some day I'll make a video about this, but for now it is just data and photos - I'm not much of a youtuber. Another interesting finding was that my DCF899 had enough ugga-dugga to destroy my cheap 4-inch Great Neck vise that I was using to hold the test bolt, breaking off the mounting base and cracking the jaws. Good test fixtures take time to make, I guess. Great tests, thanks for the information. Cheers!
p.s.: If you're interested in building a voltage/current detection fixture, I can show you what I came up with, using a diy-battery case (eBay) and a battery wired output interface (Amazon), then measuring the current with an oscilloscope current probe and the voltage on a second scope channel. This might produce some interesting results for various tool brands, all I have is Dewalt.
Very interesting!
@@TorqueTestChannel I just published a very short video with my test setup and results: ruclips.net/video/_nbcIyRyTu4/видео.html
I hope it is helpful!
Are you guys able to use a flex volt 9 amp hour battery just to see if that makes a big difference in the torque output
5x cheaper for 20% left performance? I’m sold
I had makita's knockoff batteries. Under heavy load it just exploded one cell in my hands spraying fires. Good thing I was near the front door and it was raining outside. No more cheap batteries goes near my top tools. I believe it mostly apply to extreme overload but better pay some extra than playing with grenade. Original makita's 3amp finished work just fine while 6amp knockoff was the one to explode.
P.s. can't wait DeWalt's dcf901 to be released in my country
I think it would have been a good idea to pull the different batteries off the charger then immediately hit it with a multi meter and check each batteries voltage. Battery cells can develop a type of memory that causes a false voltage reading that can trigger a premature fully charged. Think of it like an older phone, one you had for a few months or even a year. And it was almost dead so you turned if off so you’d have some battery later if you needed it. Then when you powered your phone back on it was magically 50% charged or more. But then after just a few minutes it was telling you low power or whatever. Thats a false voltage or battery memory.
The only thing I typically use knockoff batteries for is heated jackets/vests. A cheap 3.0 with terrible instantaneous power works fine in that situation.
Consider testing torque stick? I have some I used with my 1/2" M18 but would like to see what numbers that actually show in general with electric impacts
I have used Waitley batteries with good success. Some of the other aftermarket batteries are more hit and miss.
FLEXVOLT battery should give more torque on the impact gun. I used it on mine and the difference is amazing.
I am happy with my knock off batteries for what they are. I have got new life out of some older cordless tools by switching to knock off lithium batteries and a knock off chargers for a very small amount of money.
As others have said, these batteries may be fine for lower power applications but the problem with the knockoffs isn’t just that they give less power, it’s that you have zero guarantee of quality control. When the sole goal is to make the battery as cheap as possible a robust design just isn’t a priority. Buy once, cry once.