@@bbpoItergeist I always found in interesting that the shinobi are typically stronger than samurai ( im strictly talking about sekiro universe) but samurai got them vastly beat in sheer numbers so shinobi typically are last resort servants to a lord because they wouldnt survive a full blown assault by themselves.
Do you guys think he fought him upfront Or just took him by surprise? After all way of tomoe Genichiro only has one health bar Maybe Owl just defeated him without a fight
@@yellowsaurus4895 Honestly the Hirata Owl felt much easier. Probably because I had beten the Ashina one 3 times before, but still, I killed him at my 3rd try.
@@buger348 yeah he's not too bad, for me the one attack where he does like a slash, spinning elbow, then throws firecrackers into another slash always rekt me, but other than that move he didnt really give me much trouble. He's mostly just annoying cause he hops around so much, its hard to actually punish his openings
That's actually the easier one to avoid, you can dodge back after the elbow, and then dodge back in and attack. You will avoid the firecrackers/strike and get a free hit in :)
I think that Owls plan is actually a lot more simple. The Question that your theory fails to answer is "why doesn't owl just kidnap Kuro" Either by asking Wolf or using his skill as a shinobi. It's not like it is hard to steal a 10 year old if you are a 7 ft tall master of combat. The answer is that Kuro will only give his power willingly to someone that he truly respects. Hence owls plan was to 'save' Kuro from the bandits and madam butterfly and thus be rewarded as a hero. When he sent wolf to attack butterfly he doesn't expect Wolf to win, that is why he doesn't warn wolf of her presence. He wanted butterfly to win and then betray her after she has been weakened. Kuro will be so grateful that owl bested the woman who killed his shinobi that he'll award Owl (who will appear mortally wounded) with the gift of immortality. This is backed up when Owl appears again at Ashina castle. In his dialog with Kuro he is trying to pretend to rescue him but Kuro see through his lies. Of course owl could easily just pick him up and run so why bother trying to lie? Because he knows that immortality is only gifted willingly.
This makes a lot of sense actually. But why would he stab Sekiro in the presence of Kuro is the real question if that is the case. No way he didn’t see Kuro hiding nearby waiting for Sekiro. Ao there’s either a plot hole in the game or we didn’t hit the nail yet
@@xornedge8204 Kuro isn't in the room when we fight Lady Butterfly. I am guessing he ran upstairs to hide, so Owl arrives after our victory, sees that Kuro isn't around, and stabs us to remove another loose end. Maybe he looks around for him but can't find him, and Kuro then heads back downstairs to gift us the oath. Owl probably learns later on that Kuro is with the Ashina, which is one of the reasons why 3 years passed before he tried to do anything.
Yes and he would want to control wolf, thus securing a immortal being who can kill other immortals as his tool... Except Shura, or a demonized human, is a possibility they did not notice.
Doesnt make much sense. The fact that he faked his death in front of wolf simply means that he doesnt fully trust wolf would side with him. If owl really trusted wolf owl would have informed sekiro of the hirata raid in the 1st place. It just would not benefit owl one bit keeping wolf in the dark, that said, owl did not trust wolf, wolf gaining immortality was not part of owl's plan. When wolf gained immortality, owl saw wolf as a potential priceless asset, hence he tried to get wolf on his side.
It always bothers me that lore junkies of these games never look to the culture that the games draw from for insights on characters. Owl is like 1000% a confucian character, and the conflict he brings up is a classic dilemma between Japanese and Chinese Confucianism. In Confucianism, there are five important relationships: Father-son, Lord-subject, Husband-wife, older brother-younger brother, and older friend- younger friend. Each one is based on the first being respected by the second, and in return being kind to the second. That latter half gets forgotten a lot of times and it becomes "obey and respect the first". There is a classic dilemma Confucianism where the scenario is that your father has committed a major crime and comes to you for help. Is it honorable to help your father or your lord. In China, the Father-son relationship is consider the primary relationship and you should always be respected, so China says hide away your dad because its not a shameful to have filial piety even in face of the law. In Japanese culture however they value the Lord-subject relationship more, so it would be honorable to turn in your father. In the game, they give you that classic choice, either your father or your lord. Also, Owl just has a lot of classic symbols of being confucian. Confucians believed damaging your body was considered a sin against your parents, so some devote ones would never even cut their hair, hence why confucian scholars would have really long beards. Its clear from Owls long braided hair that he has never once cut his hair in his life. On the flip side, it is considered to be especially bad, to lose a limb in confucian culture, making sekiro disrespectful to owl, possibly attributing to more frustration with sekiro. Confucianism has lots of stories about how only people of lesser character lose limbs. In opposition, in Daoism, cripples have been known to attain greatness and be sages. Daoism has a great culture of immortality too. There is so much you can learn from studying a bit into the culture the games are in. Don't just limit yourself to stuff in the game!
Seems like unnecessary explanation to me. I mean all parents wants their kids to obey them. Especially In this particular case where owl personally trained wolf into a master shinobi. So owl is not only sekiro's foster father, but also his teacher and the sole reason wolf was able to become a master shinobi. so owl expecting loyalty from wolf is not exactly unreasonable, confucian or not. It just so happens that wolf decides to follow his own code. Its pretty damn straight forward. Owl being offended by sekiro losing his arm is pretty far fetched, that is pure speculation no? I dont think owl mentions sekiro's prostethic even once. They are shinobi, risk of injury is part of the job description. Owl also says "fear is absolute, there is no shame in losing one battle. But you must take revenge by any means necessary". So owl taking offense to sekiro losing an arm (losing a battle), is just simply untrue.
@@elemenopi4827 on owl being offended, it could be seen as speculation, but its one of those things that is brought up more from the perspective of knowing the culture and philosophies that gave birth to a game. Its a mix of buddhist, shinto, confucian, and daoist influences, and since sekiro brings up confucian values and has crippled people in it, it makes you wonder if they are alluding to something along those lines. However, Owl does seem to recognize the use of the prosthetic in the owl father fight, mentioning about how he remembered someone else using it, being sculptor and sculptor doesn't exactly have a great reputation in those parts as he was becoming shura. I think there is still more to figure out about owl, but we may not get the chance. It might only come up within DLC. I'm just saying that if you are familiar with Confucian and Daoist literature, these are hot topics to discuss. While all parents want kids to obey them, its a different culture in Asia. To the point where parental word is law. It's one of the primary topics in Asian Studies about understanding a fundemental difference between Asian and Western cultures. The struggle of loyalty to father vs loyalty to lord is just such a classic China vs Japan narrative of values that its been played out in thousands of stories. Its the iconography of the culture these games are set in and where they were written from. Do we know that he resents wolf for the loss of his arm? Not really, but if he is as confucian as he seems to be, it might be something worth noting.
Bro, thankyou so much for writing this! This is the kind of lore Im after, not fucking Vaati cringecrying about Emma feeling bad for fighting you. Thx alot!
judoshrew This was an amazing and insightful comment that taught me something. I sort of just brushed Owl off as “one more immortality seeker” and while I understood the significance and gravity of the choice from a storytelling standpoint, that was where it ended for me.
You never mentioned inoske. Poor dude went to fight lady butterfly first but lost his eyes in the process. May be he is the one who locked the temple gates.
inoske and owl must have been in the temple together with lady butterfly. she betrayed them, blinded inoske in the fight and owl dragged him out and locked the door. inoske probably doesn't know that the door is locked, because he never says to us where to find the key
6:52 its also proven by something much more subtle. If you fight Lone shadow Masanaga, he'll say he wants to kill you to avenge a boss you've never fought, Masanari, who you later fight in the hirata estate second flashback, which no matter what, takes place after Masanaga.
I have a theory about Jizou being alive in the second memory, remember that samurai who helps you with the fight? He probably kept the mini boss busy, while sekiro went to fight lady butterfly, in fact during the second memory, you find the dead corpse of the samurai near Jizou
Hirata was a Vassal for Ashina Clan. Lord Isshin and Ashina were protecting Hirata Family. But Genichiro was so obssessed for the survival of Ashina really corrupt half of Ashina except for Lord Isshin's Nightjar Shinobis. If you go to Hirata Estate. Most of the dead bodies that got massacred were Ashina Samurai that tried to defend from the Bandit Attacks (Interior Ministry in Father Owl's Memory) but failed because Father Owl is cunning and plans the attack.
Good stuff. I always wondered what the hell Owl was doing while Wolf was fighting both Emma and Isshin. Only makes sense that Genichiro was completely dominated by the man who taught Wolf, the other guy who just kicked his ass, and had his own Mortal Blade taken, to boot.
It's strange no one questions where the mortal blades come from. The divine dragon comes from the west, but who brought the mortal blades to Ashina? It can't be the dragon, right? Are they created to help sever immortality after the dragon's arrival? If so, who has the power to make the blades? Is he a divine heir too? Why did he want to sever immortality but still forged a blade which can bring back life? Or the mortal blades were made by different people? Nevertheless, it's very strange for me.
@@thegravewalker3712 There's no mention of them having the kind of power necessary to create the mortal blades. There's also no indication of them having knowledge of the 2nd Mortal Blade known as Open Gate. If they created the mortal blades, they'd have knowledge of both.
Wolf's memory of Hirata and Owl's memory aren't one after the other; they're two interpretations of the same event. It makes sense for Juzou to be alive in both because he doesn't die before either memory takes place. Owl's memory also serves to reveal the secret of what happened at Hirata, which is why the Interior Ministry shows up. Even if we accept that the memories are sequential, Owl's memory takes place before Wolf's. Remember the courtyard where Owl "died"? It's not engulfed in fire until he fakes his death.
I think the 2nd Memory is an aftermath of what happened when Owl kills Sekiro. When you encounter Lone Shadow The Spear Bearer, he was surprised to see Wolf alive, which was contradictory to what Owl told the interior ministry.
I love that you start your videos with "let me tell you a story about..." I think it's a great way of branding your content and really bringing to the forefront the idea that what you're doing really is telling a story in the sense of how people used to. In ancient civilizations, shit would happen, and each person would tell their own version of the story. I feel like this is similar, where you're gathering up the details of what we know about what happened and you're sort of bringing us back in time to when it all happened and letting us experience these events for ourselves, filling in the gaps to create one complete narrative. Keep up the good work!
owl inspired me to find one of my favorite trope ideas: The state assassin who after years of service becomes tired of boeying orders from men he could easily kill or control with minimal effort, and starts making plans to overthrow the entire power structure to be the one giving out orders instead
At the beginning of Herata, you can overhear a conversation in a house between Emma and a wounded someone (i think it is owl) she's treating. The man is concerned there's a shinobi hunter out there, and only he has a chance of defeating him. I think it's the Tengu of Ashina, who defeats owl, and who we find defeated. It's the Tengu who takes Kuro.
The point is if you were going to do a "level 1" play through, you'd have to basically do it without getting touched and it would take you longer to kill things. Basically the cap for how hard you can make the game is VERY high. If you don't consume the memories/beads you have a VERY hard game ahead where enemies take long AF to kill and kill you in one hit later in the game.
@@xXAzarakXx Are you new? People have been doing lvl 1 runs since the dawn of speed runners. There are already no damage runs on YT, adding no damage increases would just make it take longer. And yes playing something perfectly for longer is harder than playing something perfectly for a shorter amount of time ... if that wasn't obvious. In this game the vitality and damage are separate from the skill tree so you can do a "lvl 1 run" and still get skills if you want to go down that route. I don't know how skills work in Witcher, but it might be different if you need to spend points to get abilities and magic and such. Most games have it tied to the same EXP points. Even Dark Souls, if you want to do a lvl 1 run you can't equip anything too heavy or requiring too much dexterity as you can't stat into strength and dex.
GriFFonRec4 this game is like two months old, don’t flex like your name is in the credits just because somebody asked a question. If you’re an expert then you’re aware most games don’t go to new game plus 7, which makes that a totally legitimate question. And if they are new? Wtf man your parents taught you to walk, we were all new once my friend
also just for the shura ending, when owl let you fight emma and isshin, he was fighting genichiro to get the black mortal blade, but what confirms this is when you kill isshin, you can see in the cutscene that owl puts something next to isshins dead body, no one can see what it is, but in free cam, it was genichiros head.
The shinobi prosthetic you use in the game was the sculptor’s before. You see it in the immortal severance ending, when sekiro takes it off to give it to another shinobi.
Isshin's dialogue about fools tinkering with prosthetic arms with cup of sake on the other likely refers to Dogen, Emma's adoptive father. You learn from the sculptor(if you give him dragonspring sake) that he(Dogen) is the original creator of the prosthetic arm and made the current one passed on to wolf after several failed attempts
@@Creeepling my bad, must have missed it, posted this for those who might not know it was Dogen as you dont explicitly explain its him, you just state that it can't be the sculptor which i totally agree, great vid nonetheless
A lot of people are asking, so I'll just leave this here: all the dialogue in my videos is in English, so that none of you have to watch the screen the entire time. I myself often do other things while listening to youtube, and having to rewind and read subtitles can be annoying. Original VO is, no doubt, superior - this is what I used when playing through the game :)
There is also interesting connection between Senpou temple and Ashina castle if you go to abandoned dungeon, they are cooperating on research of immortality / rejevunating water. It is no surprise if the dungeon are connecting both place and there is a buddha statues in the dungeon. I am still trying to find those connections with Mibu village but my guess is that Ashina and Senpou are stealing their "holy waters".
@@Silent47963 It's not amazing, but not as bad as people make it out to be. I was watching a cut dialogue video today as I was waking up, and I honestly hated the fact I had to open my eyes and squint at subtitles while watching an otherwise English video. The author stated it was VO'd in English, too, and yet... I would honestly prefer a robotic narrator voice instead. In-game immersion is one thing, content - a totally different one, I believe.
Isshin makes a deeper reference to your connection through owl and the rebellion when he first meets you and finds out “You are the son of Owl, the boy he rescued from the battlefield” (paraphrased)
I made a vid on farming there, it's the fastest and most efficient method I've found anywhere in the game but it's insanely tedius. Might make it faster for you, I've got it down to over 6k xp/minute ruclips.net/video/MGh6SHZYHNU/видео.html
@@cloudbloom That's not the best one, try the stairway gate idol, after set ablaze, go to under the bridge idol killing everything easily, more than 8k in less than 1 minute.
Yep! There's no other way for him to get it. Genichiro has the blade and its sheath = means he took it out and survived it through his "immortality". Owl could not unsheath it on his own.
It's kinda not believable that owl would find, catch, beat and steal the sword from Genichiro while we are fighting Emma and Ishin. I mean idk how reliable it is, but as a player we can tell for sure that Genichiro is no where to find around Ashina Castle, Depths, Sunken Valley and so on. I just realy don't know about this part. Overall the theory is realy nice and makes sence, but just this part doesn't seem to be supported by the game itself and pure logic. We can't assume that Genichiro was making his way to the castle either bc if we do decide to not obey our father he is still nowhere to see in the whole last third or even half of the game. It just kinda doesn't stick together to me... Edit: Yes there is no denying that he defenetly has 2 swords in the cutscene, but I would rather believe fhat FromSoft made a mistake tbh... Edit 2: after close pixel inspection I highly believe that is is a mistake bc Open Gate has a different sword handle that the one in the cutscene. It is hard to tell from this angle but it may be the same sword that he is holding in his hand which would support my hypothesis that it's just a result of a mistake.
@@enot2140 The sword Owl holds in the shura ending is 100% Open Gate, there is no arguing it. So how could Owl get Open Gate after the Emma/Isshin fight when he didn't have it before the fight? There is no other way for Owl to have it, Creeepling is correct! If you watch the full cutscene there is a very clear close up on Open Gate as Wolf picks it up, FromSoft does not make mistakes this big.
@@preston8586In this video I was sure it's not bc of how the quality is, but I watched the ending in 4k and yeah I can surely see that it is Open Gate. My bad. He is a hella quick old man then :o
Genichiro, Owl 1&2, Ape 1, Demon of Hatred, and Isshin (Sword Saint) were incredibly rough to beat on my first playthrough. Isshin made me rage so much, mainly because he was the last boss and I wanted to finish so bad to start ng+. I beat him without cheese so it felt so much better when I finally got that final blow.
The sculptor COULD have been one of the "Fools" drinking with Isshin as it was Isshin who had to take his arm when he was on the verge of becoming Shura. The way the sculptor speaks of this in his optional dialogue from Unrefined Sake makes me feels like they had some kind of friendly relationship prior. Maybe the Sculptor still had his arm at that point.
Wolf did not had resurrection power during Hirata Estate events. The game's cut scene makes it very clear that Kuro gives him his blood for the first time after he was stabbed and left to die. You can't use game mechanics in this case to explain presence of resurrection power in the memory, because Wolf also has prosthetic arm and all his items in there too which is not true for what actually happened. if the game wanted to experience memory lore-wise it would take away all that we had, but it's not the case. That's true to real-life memories as well. When we remember our past we don't remember it for what it really was, but rather how we believe it happened based on our current mentality. That's why we feel regret for things we didn't do when we could, anger for what we ignored and love for what we didn't notice, even though we did not experience any of that back then.
An interesting this is that if you use a free camera mod or something else during the cutscene after killing ishin ashina owl is actually holding genichiros head
Probably for gameplay pourposes, like big hands and foots in fighting games. If Sekiro was larger, than he hitboxes will be larger too and this makes him more vulnerable to attacks.
I wonder if there's any way to form a connection with Owl with the feathers you see scattered around the Gun Fort Shrine. It trails either from outside in or inside out and they stop only after a couple steps..
Father bell charm react differently as it isn’t a memory nor another version of it, it’s a psychological reflection of Wolf, Owl Father in this bell is the manifestation of Wolf’s attachment to the Shinobi Code
If you kill the bandit that turns merchant 3 years later in Kuro's memory, he is gone from the present world. That is very strange, though and would mean that Juzo should actually be dead. However, maybe Juzo didn't really die and was just unconscious.
That's right, interesting. I almost feel like it's a quest choice mechanic... If we were to have retconning as canon, then killing Owl means we can't get his bell to go back and kill him/his invasion should be reversed...
3:55 You don't really have any proof that this was after Isshin severed his arm. We are three options here: it was Emma's old master, the original designer of the prosthetic, it was the Sculptor before he started "seeing the flames" and getting his arm sliced off or it could have been after that, with him holding the cup in his prosthetic (though this is very unlikely, since he would have been avoiding others at this point and it's very likely that he never actually equipped the prosthetic, since he was trying to avoid battle).
I believe that Owl and Lady Butterfly along with the Interior Minister (and bunch of bandits) work together in the Hirata estate invasion, Owl need Lady Butterfly to cast a genjutsu on Kuro while only Owl knew how to make him give up his blood for others to join the immortal oath. As for why he didn’t arrive along with her, if the plan go wrong (which it did), Owl would never take the blame if he never was on their side to begin with, his plan was too good
owl is my favorite boss in the game and in fact I think he is one of the best designed character in gaming history. His lore marches his conniving personality, both of which are reflected not only in his demeanor but also his fighting style.
For the Dragonspring part, Since this is when Oniwa, Owl and Butterfly were hanging out with Isshin, it could be assumed that this takes place like in 20 years or more ago. I think Emma didn't drink because she said she can't handle alcohol as a child. Takeru and Tomoe are fish people , hence I don't think Dragonspring Sake appeals to their taste. But they could be present as well. Genichiro most likely went off training lightning or doesn't like Dragonspring, or he wasn't adopted yet.
To the Isshin quote about the fool tinkering with prosthetics while drinking sake, the Orangutan Shinobi had two hands/arms but Isshin cut one off to prevent him becoming shura. Who is to say that they didn't drink sake together before he lost his arm?
I believe that when Owl dies in the first memory he give you the key to where he knows we’re lady butterfly is. He did so lady butterfly can kill you. The proof is the later in the game when you fight Great Shinobi Owl he says “Im surprised you are still alive.
3:57 if no then why would isshin call dogen a fool? He helped ashina so much and isshin shows gratitude to him by taking care of Emma (and letting her take care of him) Orangutan however can just leave the dragonspring sake to tinker with his half finished prosthetic since we know he kept inventing new abilities using it.
I think the end boss fight and the black mortal blade are definitely something that's worth looking in to. I hear a lot of people say that Genichiro was the sole holder of the black mortal blade and that it was his will that was imprinted upon Isshin when he was brought back from the underworld, but I have this gut feeling that that wasn't the case at all...I think Isshin was in possession of the black mortal blade and had planned to be brought back from the dead using Genichiro as a sacrifice from very early on (even prior to when we start the game). If you notice, it's only ever stated that Isshin didn't want to use the dragon's heritage to grant immortality, either presumably because he didn't want Genichiro to become immortal (at least by those specific means, possibly due to needing Genichiro's sacrifice later and it might not have worked properly with the dragon's heritage) or simply because he had another means of achieving immortality for himself and wasn't in need of the dragon's heritage. It also seems that Isshin's illness isn't as crippling as everyone believes it to be considering he's the Tengu of Ashina, he still seems to be healthy enough to slaughter dozens of men (as indicated by the ministry ninja corpses surrounding him at each Tengu location). In fact, it's all too suspicious to me that Isshin is in possession of the black scroll, which gives critical information as to what the black mortal blade is and what it's known to do (specifically stating that the blade's name is "Open Gate" and that it "...is said to hold the power to open a gate to the underworld.") and that his death happens _right_ before your final fight with Genichiro...since how else would he be returned from the underworld had he not arrived there prior. It would also make sense for Owl to immediately have possession of the black mortal blade if it was still in the possession of Isshin at the time of the Shura ending. The one thing I find that goes against this theory is the eavesdrop line after you've shown Isshin the red mortal blade, which says ""The crimson Mortal Blade...That means the one he has must be...black, then. To abandon oneself in search of strength...How tragic..." which is highly implicative that not only does Genichiro must already be in possession of the black mortal blade, but that Isshin either never had it and/or never instructed Genichiro to use it. You'll have to take this next bit with a grain of salt as it's complete speculation, but what if Isshin, being the master warrior he is, *knew* we were eavesdropping...what if he wanted to raise as little suspicion over himself as possible so that no one will ever suspect his true motives. What if he knew exactly what the black mortal blade was capable of and, either directly or indirectly, influenced Genichiro to use it when all else fails, which fits in nicely with the way of Ashina being "win at all costs" (even Isshin constantly reiterates "If you hesitate, you lose"). From there, all he'd have to do is let all the dominos fall in place while he sits on the sidelines, killing ministry intruders in the darkness for fun, just waiting for the time to come when Genichiro realizes what he must do to save Ashina. It certainly is a bit of a crazy crackpot theory, but I still think it lends some more looking in to the black mortal blade and the ending itself :) I'm curious to hear what others have thought about it, do you think it was just Genichiro imprinting his will on to Isshin or do you think Isshin had more cards in this game than he lead on?
One thing that instantly came to mind against this was in the final fight for Immortal Severance/Purification. After you beat Genichiro and the cutscene plays you see Genichiro basically kill himself. As Isshin comes out he says "So this was your last wish huh? Pitiful child." Something along those lines I believe
Search zullie the witch. Free camera will show owl holding genichiro cut offed head in his hand. Thats how he got open gate. Genichiro had nothing but admiration for his grandfather, if isshin wanted immortality, genichiro would have followed ishhins instructions to the letter. Why the fuck would isshin even help sekiro lol, giving wolf the ashina combat arts text and telling where to find mortal blade. Your theory is creative but it is so damn far from the truth.
Amazing video man. You are for sure the go-to for sekiro lore!! I appreciate the English as well. I love the Japanese, but as I listen to these types of videos on my long drive to work your use to the English V/A is awesome :) thanks for all the work you out in to these!! Subbed!
4:00 by giving the sculptor the unrefined sake we learn that isshin is the one who cut his arm off so could this have been reminiscing of a time before he saved the sculptor from shura?
Or the sculptor could've been wearing the prosthetic while he worked on it and holding sake with his prosthetic arm, after all the sculptor used the prosthetic before we did.
@@jackmeriustacktheritrix exactly, that or even holding the sake in his good hand while using half made tools, like grappling around with a grapple that doesn't work well while he's drinking
@@stevenwillemse8598 yep, can't decide if the author of the video over or under thought that point lol, I was like "I mean he's pretty obviously referring to the sculptor lol"
Btw owls memory takes place like a hour or two before yours memory that's why the drunkards is still alive because essentially an owl's memory the Assault on Hirata estate is just beginning and the memory that you have is once it's already been done which is why when you get up to the burning area you have to originally rope across because it's all burned down now when you go there with the father's memory you can actually go through that area it's not closed off because the buildings had yet to burned down and the reason for everything being dead when you get there is because of that one loan Samurai that helps you with the drunkard the first time he comes through there and kills everybody but is scared to face the drunkard alone which is why when you talked to him he says let's fight together this also explains why he's not there the second time around because you show up before he does this time so you have to be the one that clears everything out another way you can tell it's because your memory at the end where you fight lady butterfly the whole place collapses that would be obviously visible with your fight with all the second time because it takes place hours before the original memory
The shura ending makes little sense to me. Shura is something that should be attributed to people that are purely evil, Wolf, Sekiro isn’t pure evil on the events leading up to that ending. He did as he was told yet he was cursed with Shura rather than Owl, who killed and deceived many for the sake of power(pretty much the same as killing for fun, he doesn’t need that power but he wants it regardless of the cost). So imo Owl was a true Shura and Sekiro was a brainwashed child.
Maybe the memories are mixed, the wall on fire next to the idol is a Wolf memorie and not on fire is an Owl memorie, Juzo being alive is an Owl memorie cheking that all was right before Wolf arrives and Juzo staying with his guards is a Wolf memorie. In Wolf memorie Lady Butterfly is waiting him (or Owl) and later Owl is looking for something that can help him, like a Lady Butterfly clue about the ritual, we cant know how much did Owl and Lady know about the ritual, maybe Lady was protecting Kuro from Owl and she didnt want to be inmortal. Also, could you make a video about the Orangutan?
Well, one of the reasons for this theory was to find a place for Sakura Droplet. You need a connection between Tomoe losing her immortality(if that happen), meaning of the descriptions, and Lady Butterfly otherwise... Yep, could do! But meanwhile you can check out Demon of Hatred an Guardian Ape videos of @SmoughTown, he covers him in detail in those!
![The Red Eyes of Ashina - Sekiro Lore [Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2kSNMktqfMo/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Red Eyes of Ashina - Sekiro Lore [Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice]](/img/tr.png)
![Sekiro Lore: The Infestation of Senpou Temple [Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8O1xos_UqMQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"He had beaten up genichiro" Nah he straight murdered him and placed his head next to isshins corpse.
yea i just saw the freecam vid of the shura ending. man owl did genichiro dirty
Genichiro got mikiri counter'd hard
After fighting owl I can see him slaughtering genichiro
@@bbpoItergeist I always found in interesting that the shinobi are typically stronger than samurai ( im strictly talking about sekiro universe) but samurai got them vastly beat in sheer numbers so shinobi typically are last resort servants to a lord because they wouldnt survive a full blown assault by themselves.
Do you guys think he fought him upfront
Or just took him by surprise?
After all way of tomoe Genichiro only has one health bar
Maybe Owl just defeated him without a fight
Me: Wow guardian ape was pretty hard, I hope I get a break now.
Owl: ha ha stray lol
Bruh just wait till you fight him at hirata estate for the purification ending 💀
cannasaurus-rex gave me stage 4 depression tbh
@@yellowsaurus4895 Honestly the Hirata Owl felt much easier. Probably because I had beten the Ashina one 3 times before, but still, I killed him at my 3rd try.
@@buger348 yeah he's not too bad, for me the one attack where he does like a slash, spinning elbow, then throws firecrackers into another slash always rekt me, but other than that move he didnt really give me much trouble. He's mostly just annoying cause he hops around so much, its hard to actually punish his openings
That's actually the easier one to avoid, you can dodge back after the elbow, and then dodge back in and attack. You will avoid the firecrackers/strike and get a free hit in :)
I think that Owls plan is actually a lot more simple. The Question that your theory fails to answer is "why doesn't owl just kidnap Kuro" Either by asking Wolf or using his skill as a shinobi. It's not like it is hard to steal a 10 year old if you are a 7 ft tall master of combat. The answer is that Kuro will only give his power willingly to someone that he truly respects.
Hence owls plan was to 'save' Kuro from the bandits and madam butterfly and thus be rewarded as a hero. When he sent wolf to attack butterfly he doesn't expect Wolf to win, that is why he doesn't warn wolf of her presence. He wanted butterfly to win and then betray her after she has been weakened. Kuro will be so grateful that owl bested the woman who killed his shinobi that he'll award Owl (who will appear mortally wounded) with the gift of immortality.
This is backed up when Owl appears again at Ashina castle. In his dialog with Kuro he is trying to pretend to rescue him but Kuro see through his lies. Of course owl could easily just pick him up and run so why bother trying to lie? Because he knows that immortality is only gifted willingly.
This makes a lot of sense actually. But why would he stab Sekiro in the presence of Kuro is the real question if that is the case. No way he didn’t see Kuro hiding nearby waiting for Sekiro. Ao there’s either a plot hole in the game or we didn’t hit the nail yet
Hmm it seem he went to get open. Gate so he get the blood by force just like how gini did
@@xornedge8204 Kuro isn't in the room when we fight Lady Butterfly. I am guessing he ran upstairs to hide, so Owl arrives after our victory, sees that Kuro isn't around, and stabs us to remove another loose end. Maybe he looks around for him but can't find him, and Kuro then heads back downstairs to gift us the oath.
Owl probably learns later on that Kuro is with the Ashina, which is one of the reasons why 3 years passed before he tried to do anything.
It actually makes sense for Owl to want Wolf to become immortal, because that would allow him to use the Mortal Blade without dying
Yes and he would want to control wolf, thus securing a immortal being who can kill other immortals as his tool... Except Shura, or a demonized human, is a possibility they did not notice.
How did Owl took the black mortal blade then ?
@@t-wave3161 Because Black Mortal Blade is already drawn. The key thing on mortal blade that can't be drawn, not "can't be used".
@@Konsi312 Oh just what we needed, a lawyer immortal slayer sword.
Doesnt make much sense. The fact that he faked his death in front of wolf simply means that he doesnt fully trust wolf would side with him. If owl really trusted wolf owl would have informed sekiro of the hirata raid in the 1st place. It just would not benefit owl one bit keeping wolf in the dark, that said, owl did not trust wolf, wolf gaining immortality was not part of owl's plan.
When wolf gained immortality, owl saw wolf as a potential priceless asset, hence he tried to get wolf on his side.
Sekiro fans: can’t wait for future DLC to go into more of the story
FromSoftware: introducing our next new game
It always bothers me that lore junkies of these games never look to the culture that the games draw from for insights on characters. Owl is like 1000% a confucian character, and the conflict he brings up is a classic dilemma between Japanese and Chinese Confucianism. In Confucianism, there are five important relationships: Father-son, Lord-subject, Husband-wife, older brother-younger brother, and older friend- younger friend. Each one is based on the first being respected by the second, and in return being kind to the second. That latter half gets forgotten a lot of times and it becomes "obey and respect the first". There is a classic dilemma Confucianism where the scenario is that your father has committed a major crime and comes to you for help. Is it honorable to help your father or your lord. In China, the Father-son relationship is consider the primary relationship and you should always be respected, so China says hide away your dad because its not a shameful to have filial piety even in face of the law. In Japanese culture however they value the Lord-subject relationship more, so it would be honorable to turn in your father. In the game, they give you that classic choice, either your father or your lord. Also, Owl just has a lot of classic symbols of being confucian. Confucians believed damaging your body was considered a sin against your parents, so some devote ones would never even cut their hair, hence why confucian scholars would have really long beards. Its clear from Owls long braided hair that he has never once cut his hair in his life. On the flip side, it is considered to be especially bad, to lose a limb in confucian culture, making sekiro disrespectful to owl, possibly attributing to more frustration with sekiro. Confucianism has lots of stories about how only people of lesser character lose limbs. In opposition, in Daoism, cripples have been known to attain greatness and be sages. Daoism has a great culture of immortality too. There is so much you can learn from studying a bit into the culture the games are in. Don't just limit yourself to stuff in the game!
Seems like unnecessary explanation to me. I mean all parents wants their kids to obey them. Especially In this particular case where owl personally trained wolf into a master shinobi. So owl is not only sekiro's foster father, but also his teacher and the sole reason wolf was able to become a master shinobi. so owl expecting loyalty from wolf is not exactly unreasonable, confucian or not. It just so happens that wolf decides to follow his own code. Its pretty damn straight forward.
Owl being offended by sekiro losing his arm is pretty far fetched, that is pure speculation no? I dont think owl mentions sekiro's prostethic even once. They are shinobi, risk of injury is part of the job description. Owl also says "fear is absolute, there is no shame in losing one battle. But you must take revenge by any means necessary". So owl taking offense to sekiro losing an arm (losing a battle), is just simply untrue.
@@elemenopi4827 on owl being offended, it could be seen as speculation, but its one of those things that is brought up more from the perspective of knowing the culture and philosophies that gave birth to a game. Its a mix of buddhist, shinto, confucian, and daoist influences, and since sekiro brings up confucian values and has crippled people in it, it makes you wonder if they are alluding to something along those lines. However, Owl does seem to recognize the use of the prosthetic in the owl father fight, mentioning about how he remembered someone else using it, being sculptor and sculptor doesn't exactly have a great reputation in those parts as he was becoming shura. I think there is still more to figure out about owl, but we may not get the chance. It might only come up within DLC. I'm just saying that if you are familiar with Confucian and Daoist literature, these are hot topics to discuss. While all parents want kids to obey them, its a different culture in Asia. To the point where parental word is law. It's one of the primary topics in Asian Studies about understanding a fundemental difference between Asian and Western cultures. The struggle of loyalty to father vs loyalty to lord is just such a classic China vs Japan narrative of values that its been played out in thousands of stories. Its the iconography of the culture these games are set in and where they were written from. Do we know that he resents wolf for the loss of his arm? Not really, but if he is as confucian as he seems to be, it might be something worth noting.
Bro, thankyou so much for writing this! This is the kind of lore Im after, not fucking Vaati cringecrying about Emma feeling bad for fighting you. Thx alot!
Thanks for this comment!
judoshrew This was an amazing and insightful comment that taught me something.
I sort of just brushed Owl off as “one more immortality seeker” and while I understood the significance and gravity of the choice from a storytelling standpoint, that was where it ended for me.
You never mentioned inoske. Poor dude went to fight lady butterfly first but lost his eyes in the process. May be he is the one who locked the temple gates.
Nice theory
You can't lock a door without the key. Owl had the key so he locked the gate.
Murf181 nope, u CAN lock doors without keys.
inoske and owl must have been in the temple together with lady butterfly. she betrayed them, blinded inoske in the fight and owl dragged him out and locked the door. inoske probably doesn't know that the door is locked, because he never says to us where to find the key
Lol that inoske. Blodied up by butterfly, 3 years later still bloodied up
6:52 its also proven by something much more subtle. If you fight Lone shadow Masanaga, he'll say he wants to kill you to avenge a boss you've never fought, Masanari, who you later fight in the hirata estate second flashback, which no matter what, takes place after Masanaga.
I have a theory about Jizou being alive in the second memory, remember that samurai who helps you with the fight? He probably kept the mini boss busy, while sekiro went to fight lady butterfly, in fact during the second memory, you find the dead corpse of the samurai near Jizou
But he died in my run
@@GeneralmackaThat's your run. He can survive the fight if you pull your weight, like he did in mine. I think it's a pretty sound theory.
When the owl says
What
My brain says ' still here'
Alright calm down gael
Hirata was a Vassal for Ashina Clan. Lord Isshin and Ashina were protecting Hirata Family. But Genichiro was so obssessed for the survival of Ashina really corrupt half of Ashina except for Lord Isshin's Nightjar Shinobis. If you go to Hirata Estate. Most of the dead bodies that got massacred were Ashina Samurai that tried to defend from the Bandit Attacks (Interior Ministry in Father Owl's Memory) but failed because Father Owl is cunning and plans the attack.
Good stuff. I always wondered what the hell Owl was doing while Wolf was fighting both Emma and Isshin. Only makes sense that Genichiro was completely dominated by the man who taught Wolf, the other guy who just kicked his ass, and had his own Mortal Blade taken, to boot.
Well put, sir!
If you look closer, Owl is also holding Genichiro's head
It's strange no one questions where the mortal blades come from. The divine dragon comes from the west, but who brought the mortal blades to Ashina? It can't be the dragon, right? Are they created to help sever immortality after the dragon's arrival? If so, who has the power to make the blades? Is he a divine heir too? Why did he want to sever immortality but still forged a blade which can bring back life? Or the mortal blades were made by different people? Nevertheless, it's very strange for me.
@@thegravewalker3712 There's no mention of them having the kind of power necessary to create the mortal blades. There's also no indication of them having knowledge of the 2nd Mortal Blade known as Open Gate. If they created the mortal blades, they'd have knowledge of both.
@@thegravewalker3712 You dont have to be immortal in order to draw the black mortal blade, Owl himself draws it in the Shura ending
@@caralho5237 or it was already drawn when he killed genichiro
@@thegravewalker3712 Incorrect. Tomoe herself was looking for the Blade to be Sever their immortality.
@@ordenax Exactly I was about to comment this
Wolf's memory of Hirata and Owl's memory aren't one after the other; they're two interpretations of the same event. It makes sense for Juzou to be alive in both because he doesn't die before either memory takes place. Owl's memory also serves to reveal the secret of what happened at Hirata, which is why the Interior Ministry shows up.
Even if we accept that the memories are sequential, Owl's memory takes place before Wolf's. Remember the courtyard where Owl "died"? It's not engulfed in fire until he fakes his death.
I think the 2nd Memory is an aftermath of what happened when Owl kills Sekiro. When you encounter Lone Shadow The Spear Bearer, he was surprised to see Wolf alive, which was contradictory to what Owl told the interior ministry.
This cleared quite some things up for me especially Lady butterfly. Also, I like your interpretation of how the memories work. New sub
Yea lady butterfly definitely bad person
I love that you start your videos with "let me tell you a story about..."
I think it's a great way of branding your content and really bringing to the forefront the idea that what you're doing really is telling a story in the sense of how people used to. In ancient civilizations, shit would happen, and each person would tell their own version of the story. I feel like this is similar, where you're gathering up the details of what we know about what happened and you're sort of bringing us back in time to when it all happened and letting us experience these events for ourselves, filling in the gaps to create one complete narrative.
Keep up the good work!
I am glad you're enjoying this :) Indeed, this is simply an interpretation. It's really hard to say what "really" happened...
owl inspired me to find one of my favorite trope ideas: The state assassin who after years of service becomes tired of boeying orders from men he could easily kill or control with minimal effort, and starts making plans to overthrow the entire power structure to be the one giving out orders instead
2:03 "I fully expect to see that forest in a future DLC."
About that...
At the beginning of Herata, you can overhear a conversation in a house between Emma and a wounded someone (i think it is owl) she's treating. The man is concerned there's a shinobi hunter out there, and only he has a chance of defeating him. I think it's the Tengu of Ashina, who defeats owl, and who we find defeated. It's the Tengu who takes Kuro.
The Japanese performance of Isshin seemed much better to me however the English version of Owl was great.
That's reinheart from overwatch voice actor
@@jijidu69 Mr. Krabs is the fucking owl that made my night
The English version is voiced by Valkorion, the Sith Emperor from SWTOR. that's why his voice is so badass
What's the point of more vitality if the enemies damage goes up 😭
Because the enemies damage goes up.
Posture bar is also raised
The point is if you were going to do a "level 1" play through, you'd have to basically do it without getting touched and it would take you longer to kill things. Basically the cap for how hard you can make the game is VERY high. If you don't consume the memories/beads you have a VERY hard game ahead where enemies take long AF to kill and kill you in one hit later in the game.
@@xXAzarakXx Are you new? People have been doing lvl 1 runs since the dawn of speed runners. There are already no damage runs on YT, adding no damage increases would just make it take longer. And yes playing something perfectly for longer is harder than playing something perfectly for a shorter amount of time ... if that wasn't obvious.
In this game the vitality and damage are separate from the skill tree so you can do a "lvl 1 run" and still get skills if you want to go down that route. I don't know how skills work in Witcher, but it might be different if you need to spend points to get abilities and magic and such. Most games have it tied to the same EXP points. Even Dark Souls, if you want to do a lvl 1 run you can't equip anything too heavy or requiring too much dexterity as you can't stat into strength and dex.
GriFFonRec4 this game is like two months old, don’t flex like your name is in the credits just because somebody asked a question. If you’re an expert then you’re aware most games don’t go to new game plus 7, which makes that a totally legitimate question.
And if they are new? Wtf man your parents taught you to walk, we were all new once my friend
also just for the shura ending, when owl let you fight emma and isshin, he was fighting genichiro to get the black mortal blade, but what confirms this is when you kill isshin, you can see in the cutscene that owl puts something next to isshins dead body, no one can see what it is, but in free cam, it was genichiros head.
2:07 "fast forward 20 years before now"
wait. that’s illegal
As soon as I seen this comment it matched with the video wtf
The shinobi prosthetic you use in the game was the sculptor’s before. You see it in the immortal severance ending, when sekiro takes it off to give it to another shinobi.
Dude ...
This is awsome. I finished the game 4 times (all endings) and did not notice or even take the time to contemplate its lore. Great job!
I stopped playing midway through ng+ to explore lore :D
Just did 2 ending and I think I’m done playing the game
Isshin's dialogue about fools tinkering with prosthetic arms with cup of sake on the other likely refers to Dogen, Emma's adoptive father. You learn from the sculptor(if you give him dragonspring sake) that he(Dogen) is the original creator of the prosthetic arm and made the current one passed on to wolf after several failed attempts
Yep, just like I said in the vid :)
@@Creeepling my bad, must have missed it, posted this for those who might not know it was Dogen as you dont explicitly explain its him, you just state that it can't be the sculptor which i totally agree, great vid nonetheless
A lot of people are asking, so I'll just leave this here: all the dialogue in my videos is in English, so that none of you have to watch the screen the entire time. I myself often do other things while listening to youtube, and having to rewind and read subtitles can be annoying. Original VO is, no doubt, superior - this is what I used when playing through the game :)
There is also interesting connection between Senpou temple and Ashina castle if you go to abandoned dungeon, they are cooperating on research of immortality / rejevunating water. It is no surprise if the dungeon are connecting both place and there is a buddha statues in the dungeon.
I am still trying to find those connections with Mibu village but my guess is that Ashina and Senpou are stealing their "holy waters".
What do you use to edit you videos?
@@buttbutterson5326 HitFIlm Express :)
@@Silent47963 It's not amazing, but not as bad as people make it out to be. I was watching a cut dialogue video today as I was waking up, and I honestly hated the fact I had to open my eyes and squint at subtitles while watching an otherwise English video. The author stated it was VO'd in English, too, and yet... I would honestly prefer a robotic narrator voice instead. In-game immersion is one thing, content - a totally different one, I believe.
@@Creeepling BIG mistake my dude.
Isshin makes a deeper reference to your connection through owl and the rebellion when he first meets you and finds out “You are the son of Owl, the boy he rescued from the battlefield” (paraphrased)
If you remove a certain amount of his hair he looks like Andre
“Fast forward 20 years in the past.”
This was great keep it up this helps with my obsession with sekiro lol
Vaativydia wants to know your location.
Waitwhat, collab already?
@@Creeepling LOL, I was just joking, because you are ahead of him with these pretty well done lore videos.
12:08 he actually cuts off Genichiro’s head
5:45 I've been farming xp at this spot for hours lol. Great video dude
I made a vid on farming there, it's the fastest and most efficient method I've found anywhere in the game but it's insanely tedius. Might make it faster for you, I've got it down to over 6k xp/minute
ruclips.net/video/MGh6SHZYHNU/видео.html
If youre going for the platinum just speedrun the bosses i got all abilities at the owl fight in ng+5
@@cloudbloom That's not the best one, try the stairway gate idol, after set ablaze, go to under the bridge idol killing everything easily, more than 8k in less than 1 minute.
Really enjoying your lore videos and the effort you put into them! Can't wait for the next one.
The Vaatividya of Sekiro :D
Great work man, keep it up :)
What? Owl takes the black mortal blade from Genichiro in the shura ending?
Yep! There's no other way for him to get it. Genichiro has the blade and its sheath = means he took it out and survived it through his "immortality". Owl could not unsheath it on his own.
It's kinda not believable that owl would find, catch, beat and steal the sword from Genichiro while we are fighting Emma and Ishin. I mean idk how reliable it is, but as a player we can tell for sure that Genichiro is no where to find around Ashina Castle, Depths, Sunken Valley and so on. I just realy don't know about this part. Overall the theory is realy nice and makes sence, but just this part doesn't seem to be supported by the game itself and pure logic. We can't assume that Genichiro was making his way to the castle either bc if we do decide to not obey our father he is still nowhere to see in the whole last third or even half of the game. It just kinda doesn't stick together to me...
Edit: Yes there is no denying that he defenetly has 2 swords in the cutscene, but I would rather believe fhat FromSoft made a mistake tbh...
Edit 2: after close pixel inspection I highly believe that is is a mistake bc Open Gate has a different sword handle that the one in the cutscene. It is hard to tell from this angle but it may be the same sword that he is holding in his hand which would support my hypothesis that it's just a result of a mistake.
@@enot2140 The sword Owl holds in the shura ending is 100% Open Gate, there is no arguing it. So how could Owl get Open Gate after the Emma/Isshin fight when he didn't have it before the fight? There is no other way for Owl to have it, Creeepling is correct!
If you watch the full cutscene there is a very clear close up on Open Gate as Wolf picks it up, FromSoft does not make mistakes this big.
@@preston8586In this video I was sure it's not bc of how the quality is, but I watched the ending in 4k and yeah I can surely see that it is Open Gate. My bad. He is a hella quick old man then :o
@@Creeepling I am sorry. I was wrong.
That was good. Great story telling. I just subbed bc I liked how u interpreted that.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! :)
Creeepling glad I found ur channel. Keep em and I’ll keep watching.
Its great to have another Lore-theorist working on sekiro! Great work dude!
Best sekiro lore video I’ve seen so far.
Genichiro, Owl 1&2, Ape 1, Demon of Hatred, and Isshin (Sword Saint) were incredibly rough to beat on my first playthrough. Isshin made me rage so much, mainly because he was the last boss and I wanted to finish so bad to start ng+. I beat him without cheese so it felt so much better when I finally got that final blow.
Amazing video once again keep up the good work shinobi
Very good. I like these a lot. So much to read in game and you bring it all in these videos. Need more like this
Sake cup in the Prosthetic hand that is being worked on. Making the emphasis on holding a sake cup more important.
The sculptor COULD have been one of the "Fools" drinking with Isshin as it was Isshin who had to take his arm when he was on the verge of becoming Shura. The way the sculptor speaks of this in his optional dialogue from Unrefined Sake makes me feels like they had some kind of friendly relationship prior. Maybe the Sculptor still had his arm at that point.
If that was the case, the prosthetic would not exist. It was made by Dogen specifically for Orangutan, unless I missed something.
Ye I think I missed something, Dogen was probably the one fiddling with it as he's the inventor
That was a pretty good lore video.
Keep up the great work man
owl probably has the coolest design in the game
Wolf did not had resurrection power during Hirata Estate events.
The game's cut scene makes it very clear that Kuro gives him his blood for the first time after he was stabbed and left to die.
You can't use game mechanics in this case to explain presence of resurrection power in the memory, because Wolf also has prosthetic arm and all his items in there too which is not true for what actually happened. if the game wanted to experience memory lore-wise it would take away all that we had, but it's not the case.
That's true to real-life memories as well. When we remember our past we don't remember it for what it really was, but rather how we believe it happened based on our current mentality. That's why we feel regret for things we didn't do when we could, anger for what we ignored and love for what we didn't notice, even though we did not experience any of that back then.
An interesting this is that if you use a free camera mod or something else during the cutscene after killing ishin ashina owl is actually holding genichiros head
Kid: mom can we get VaatiVidya
Mom: we have VaatiVidya at home
VaatiVidya at home:
It bothered me that as soon as you obey your father suddenly you become shura
Loving your stuff, dude! Keep it up!
My heart when someone says future Dlc
Just discovered this channel with my recommended videos, new subscriber !
why tf is sekiro so small compared to nearly every other character lol
Probably for gameplay pourposes, like big hands and foots in fighting games. If Sekiro was larger, than he hitboxes will be larger too and this makes him more vulnerable to attacks.
Actually Owl is Reinhardt in disguise, he will redeem himself and found Overwatch.
Here's a question: if someone pulls out the Mortal Blade and dies, but still fully draws it, could someone *else* pick up the Blade and use it?
"Fast forward twenty years before now" that sentence hurt my brain.
Turn on auto-generated subtitles and go to 1:22
Lmao, so owl wanted immortality so he can enjoy living in that forrest forever, what a bastard.
“I’d like to see the forest in a future dlc “
Me too kid, me too
Me: Wow guardian ape was pretty hard, I hope I get a break now.
Owl: Hold my bell'
Me: Please no more
Isshin: Hold my Sake
I wonder if there's any way to form a connection with Owl with the feathers you see scattered around the Gun Fort Shrine. It trails either from outside in or inside out and they stop only after a couple steps..
ooh Ive been thinking about this alot cant wait to hear what youve pieced together
Hope you like it!
Father bell charm react differently as it isn’t a memory nor another version of it, it’s a psychological reflection of Wolf, Owl Father in this bell is the manifestation of Wolf’s attachment to the Shinobi Code
Thank you for making this my friend.
If you kill the bandit that turns merchant 3 years later in Kuro's memory, he is gone from the present world. That is very strange, though and would mean that Juzo should actually be dead. However, maybe Juzo didn't really die and was just unconscious.
That's right, interesting. I almost feel like it's a quest choice mechanic... If we were to have retconning as canon, then killing Owl means we can't get his bell to go back and kill him/his invasion should be reversed...
3:55 You don't really have any proof that this was after Isshin severed his arm. We are three options here: it was Emma's old master, the original designer of the prosthetic, it was the Sculptor before he started "seeing the flames" and getting his arm sliced off or it could have been after that, with him holding the cup in his prosthetic (though this is very unlikely, since he would have been avoiding others at this point and it's very likely that he never actually equipped the prosthetic, since he was trying to avoid battle).
When you said that perhaps owl’s war would be more merciful than us, it gave me chills haha
so sad, people really expected a dlc
Amazing video! Keep up the good work man.
Tragic that sekiro never got any DLC. A real shame since it my favorite fromsoft game
Awesome! Thanks for the hard work on this!
I believe that Owl and Lady Butterfly along with the Interior Minister (and bunch of bandits) work together in the Hirata estate invasion, Owl need Lady Butterfly to cast a genjutsu on Kuro while only Owl knew how to make him give up his blood for others to join the immortal oath. As for why he didn’t arrive along with her, if the plan go wrong (which it did), Owl would never take the blame if he never was on their side to begin with, his plan was too good
"future dlc" yeah about that
It sounded like to me from the Shura Ending that Owl just wanted to play Samurai Warriors.
owl is my favorite boss in the game and in fact I think he is one of the best designed character in gaming history. His lore marches his conniving personality, both of which are reflected not only in his demeanor but also his fighting style.
Yes, the fool tinkering with prosthetics is the sculptor. He mentioned that it was Isshin who cut off his arm for his own sake.
Imagine duel wielding both mortal blades as shura, would be a sight to behold albeit thousands die in troves
or just become the new Demon of Hatred
Diabloslayer8 while dual wielding mortal blades :p
Sir Kirk: Knight of Green it would probably be the true form of Shura
I want that to be a boss fight. Can you imagine how fucking awesome it would be?
For the Dragonspring part,
Since this is when Oniwa, Owl and Butterfly were hanging out with Isshin, it could be assumed that this takes place like in 20 years or more ago.
I think Emma didn't drink because she said she can't handle alcohol as a child.
Takeru and Tomoe are fish people , hence I don't think Dragonspring Sake appeals to their taste. But they could be present as well.
Genichiro most likely went off training lightning or doesn't like Dragonspring, or he wasn't adopted yet.
To the Isshin quote about the fool tinkering with prosthetics while drinking sake, the Orangutan Shinobi had two hands/arms but Isshin cut one off to prevent him becoming shura. Who is to say that they didn't drink sake together before he lost his arm?
What an excellent video & I'm so late to the party! Subbed
Heyyy, I had doubts of a "souls" lore video from someone who was not vaaty.. But mate this was really good! Nice job
"Fast forward 20 yrs before now" that cracked me up
What's up with that? I misused the construction? :)
@@Creeepling nah you're fine dude I'm just being a smartass lol
@@dizintegration You're not the first one to mention it, so I wondered :)
@@Creeepling usually people say "rewind" or flashback" but I didn't actually bother me. Great job on the video and lore.
@@dizintegration oh, I sort of meant that we went from ~50+ years ago to ~20 years ago, which technically is going forward :D
In 12:05, what is said here is true as proven by third party softwares that show what owl put down next to ishinn, it was geninchiro’s head
i actually think owl's name is Usui as it was shown in the shura cutscene owl was cut short but he said usu
I believe that when Owl dies in the first memory he give you the key to where he knows we’re lady butterfly is. He did so lady butterfly can kill you. The proof is the later in the game when you fight Great Shinobi Owl he says “Im surprised you are still alive.
Did you know when Owl returns with the Black Mortal Blade, the object he places down by Isshin's dead body was Genichiro's head.
I hope that we get a "shura sekiro " fight as dlc
If you were to look at Shura ending from a different angle, you would be able to see Owl holding Genichiro's head
3:57 if no then why would isshin call dogen a fool? He helped ashina so much and isshin shows gratitude to him by taking care of Emma (and letting her take care of him)
Orangutan however can just leave the dragonspring sake to tinker with his half finished prosthetic since we know he kept inventing new abilities using it.
“Sake cup in hand”
I think the end boss fight and the black mortal blade are definitely something that's worth looking in to. I hear a lot of people say that Genichiro was the sole holder of the black mortal blade and that it was his will that was imprinted upon Isshin when he was brought back from the underworld, but I have this gut feeling that that wasn't the case at all...I think Isshin was in possession of the black mortal blade and had planned to be brought back from the dead using Genichiro as a sacrifice from very early on (even prior to when we start the game).
If you notice, it's only ever stated that Isshin didn't want to use the dragon's heritage to grant immortality, either presumably because he didn't want Genichiro to become immortal (at least by those specific means, possibly due to needing Genichiro's sacrifice later and it might not have worked properly with the dragon's heritage) or simply because he had another means of achieving immortality for himself and wasn't in need of the dragon's heritage. It also seems that Isshin's illness isn't as crippling as everyone believes it to be considering he's the Tengu of Ashina, he still seems to be healthy enough to slaughter dozens of men (as indicated by the ministry ninja corpses surrounding him at each Tengu location). In fact, it's all too suspicious to me that Isshin is in possession of the black scroll, which gives critical information as to what the black mortal blade is and what it's known to do (specifically stating that the blade's name is "Open Gate" and that it "...is said to hold the power to open a gate to the underworld.") and that his death happens _right_ before your final fight with Genichiro...since how else would he be returned from the underworld had he not arrived there prior. It would also make sense for Owl to immediately have possession of the black mortal blade if it was still in the possession of Isshin at the time of the Shura ending.
The one thing I find that goes against this theory is the eavesdrop line after you've shown Isshin the red mortal blade, which says ""The crimson Mortal Blade...That means the one he has must be...black, then. To abandon oneself in search of strength...How tragic..." which is highly implicative that not only does Genichiro must already be in possession of the black mortal blade, but that Isshin either never had it and/or never instructed Genichiro to use it. You'll have to take this next bit with a grain of salt as it's complete speculation, but what if Isshin, being the master warrior he is, *knew* we were eavesdropping...what if he wanted to raise as little suspicion over himself as possible so that no one will ever suspect his true motives. What if he knew exactly what the black mortal blade was capable of and, either directly or indirectly, influenced Genichiro to use it when all else fails, which fits in nicely with the way of Ashina being "win at all costs" (even Isshin constantly reiterates "If you hesitate, you lose"). From there, all he'd have to do is let all the dominos fall in place while he sits on the sidelines, killing ministry intruders in the darkness for fun, just waiting for the time to come when Genichiro realizes what he must do to save Ashina.
It certainly is a bit of a crazy crackpot theory, but I still think it lends some more looking in to the black mortal blade and the ending itself :) I'm curious to hear what others have thought about it, do you think it was just Genichiro imprinting his will on to Isshin or do you think Isshin had more cards in this game than he lead on?
One thing that instantly came to mind against this was in the final fight for Immortal Severance/Purification. After you beat Genichiro and the cutscene plays you see Genichiro basically kill himself. As Isshin comes out he says "So this was your last wish huh? Pitiful child." Something along those lines I believe
Search zullie the witch. Free camera will show owl holding genichiro cut offed head in his hand. Thats how he got open gate. Genichiro had nothing but admiration for his grandfather, if isshin wanted immortality, genichiro would have followed ishhins instructions to the letter. Why the fuck would isshin even help sekiro lol, giving wolf the ashina combat arts text and telling where to find mortal blade. Your theory is creative but it is so damn far from the truth.
Holy shit this video is good
PS: I was here before the channel explodes
Amazing video man. You are for sure the go-to for sekiro lore!! I appreciate the English as well. I love the Japanese, but as I listen to these types of videos on my long drive to work your use to the English V/A is awesome :) thanks for all the work you out in to these!! Subbed!
4:00 by giving the sculptor the unrefined sake we learn that isshin is the one who cut his arm off so could this have been reminiscing of a time before he saved the sculptor from shura?
Or the sculptor could've been wearing the prosthetic while he worked on it and holding sake with his prosthetic arm, after all the sculptor used the prosthetic before we did.
@@jackmeriustacktheritrix exactly, that or even holding the sake in his good hand while using half made tools, like grappling around with a grapple that doesn't work well while he's drinking
@@stevenwillemse8598 yep, can't decide if the author of the video over or under thought that point lol, I was like "I mean he's pretty obviously referring to the sculptor lol"
Even Ishin isn't dumb enough to use the dragon's blood or the fountainhead rejuvenation water. He preferred to just do things with his blade.
Btw owls memory takes place like a hour or two before yours memory that's why the drunkards is still alive because essentially an owl's memory the Assault on Hirata estate is just beginning and the memory that you have is once it's already been done which is why when you get up to the burning area you have to originally rope across because it's all burned down now when you go there with the father's memory you can actually go through that area it's not closed off because the buildings had yet to burned down and the reason for everything being dead when you get there is because of that one loan Samurai that helps you with the drunkard the first time he comes through there and kills everybody but is scared to face the drunkard alone which is why when you talked to him he says let's fight together this also explains why he's not there the second time around because you show up before he does this time so you have to be the one that clears everything out another way you can tell it's because your memory at the end where you fight lady butterfly the whole place collapses that would be obviously visible with your fight with all the second time because it takes place hours before the original memory
The shura ending makes little sense to me. Shura is something that should be attributed to people that are purely evil, Wolf, Sekiro isn’t pure evil on the events leading up to that ending. He did as he was told yet he was cursed with Shura rather than Owl, who killed and deceived many for the sake of power(pretty much the same as killing for fun, he doesn’t need that power but he wants it regardless of the cost).
So imo Owl was a true Shura and Sekiro was a brainwashed child.
Shura ending feels like a last minute addition as it contradicts what the lore in game tells us and goes too fast and the meh writing is off.
@@AxisChurchDevotee not even a proper cutscene for it lmao
i think the one that isshin was talking about who tinker with the prosthetic arm is dogen. he was obsessed with it.
Maybe the memories are mixed, the wall on fire next to the idol is a Wolf memorie and not on fire is an Owl memorie, Juzo being alive is an Owl memorie cheking that all was right before Wolf arrives and Juzo staying with his guards is a Wolf memorie.
In Wolf memorie Lady Butterfly is waiting him (or Owl) and later Owl is looking for something that can help him, like a Lady Butterfly clue about the ritual, we cant know how much did Owl and Lady know about the ritual, maybe Lady was protecting Kuro from Owl and she didnt want to be inmortal.
Also, could you make a video about the Orangutan?
Well, one of the reasons for this theory was to find a place for Sakura Droplet. You need a connection between Tomoe losing her immortality(if that happen), meaning of the descriptions, and Lady Butterfly otherwise...
Yep, could do! But meanwhile you can check out Demon of Hatred an Guardian Ape videos of @SmoughTown, he covers him in detail in those!
you could say that sekiro fought chozu but didnt kill him, like the guardian ape who despite being killed reappears in ashina dephts