Agree. I use a coachman as well. Got one that has the effect where if you hit a limb the next hit does extra damage and the thing always hits a limb so it pretty much always get the bonus.
Grenades and explosives are not designed to be used on single targets. You can't compare the damage it does to one enemy to other weapons. You need to look at how it damages a group of enemies.
I don't know if anyone mentioned it but at the end when you're looking at old clips of it the no dip on the one base was because of the low gravity that does effect how far grenades go.
I think part of the issue with explosive damage is if they correctly balance it, they have to address NPC ammo not depleting. When pirates & such have grenades in their inventory they use the F out of them.
Darkfox was in the Creation Kit and he said there tiered items IE: Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3. But BGS didn't apply the "effect" that should have been associated with each tier. So it will state its tier 3 but the effect is still tier 2.
I actually stopped using my beloved Skip Shot with Extended Mag and Hornets Nest Coachman because I kept killing myself. Used it again since I’m playing on extreme and wow, you one tap yourself now if you’re not careful
Explosives are for AoE and utility. ie moderate to severe damage over multiple targets. Use Explosives on groups to soften them and switch to a single target weapon.
Stopped using hornets nest a long time ago. I was never happy with the perk as it goes downwards. Negotiators I always use explosive rounds. They travel straight and true. I do not see anything different from using it before. Used a negotiator last night. No difference from pre patch.
They did change them, try one out without hornets nest. I love to use the launchers when enemy ships land and you can take out the landing crew with one or two shots. That same thing can be accomplished with a double barrel shotgun and hornets nest, they seem about the same to me now.
Looking at all of the comments here, the best point made is the one about nerfing NPC unlimited ammo. Obviously, if explosives damage were proportionate to the damage that can be done with rifles, particle beams, etc., NPCs with grenades or launchers would be overpowered. One answer might be to buff the explosives and heavy weapons perks. That way, players can level up to more realistic explosives damages without facing overpowered NPCs that make the combat impossible with unlimited explosives.
The 'nade launchers are entirely situational. They are for splash damage at medium range against targets using cover. But really. There are much better options available.
Some explosives are underwhelming, but I'm not too upset because a launcher's range is maybe in the mid-30's at best (?), further on planets with low grav. To be fair though, I suppose that in testing grenades and other explosive weapons (with a higher physicality), they probably killed the player and the enemy. When I think of how many grenades I threw (or were thrown by a companion) that inadvertently bounced near me, I suppose being too powerful might be a detriment. It's a tricky balance that I'm sure some players would complain about if it were the opposite.
I agree with you DeanPo, the AA-99 with explosive rounds has a concussive effect, the 40 XPL only affects the target pretty much if it's a direct hit. Explosives should stagger every time and they should be a bigger deal in game. ✌️
Maybe. The thrown ones for sure. But given that it hits an area and can be used to target people you can't see it needs to be weaker than direct fire. They may have gone too far in making it weaker but im not sure by how much.
Hey Mate- There are 2 free Creation mods that fix this, one is called 'Bridger Fix' it states that neither explosives nor Ballistics affects any Bridgers and the other Mod is a ' player damage scaling' (?) mod that has ALL the vanilla weapons , Explosives from Grenades, and melee, plus more Scales to Players level to keep it relevant not only for you, but against you as well, to challenge the player throughout the game❤
One inch Punch weapons ALL have a limited range around 20-25 maximum that is their drawback even Hard Target/Magsniper are capped out at 25, basically converted to Shotguns😂
Personally, sometimes I force myself to use mines and grenade launchers, but strictly if I’m either role playing a character that uses them or if trying to make combat more difficult for myself. It absolutely not balanced. I don’t mind making things harder for myself sometimes, but this should be reworked. I don’t like having to use weaker weapons to make the game more challenging and the coachman with hornets nest is essentially better than both of these heavy weapons with much more common ammo.
The only explosive weapon i ever found any use for was a coachman with hornets nest on it with the extended mag and i think it was shattering or instigating the one i had. That weapon was my oh fuck boom stick in my first playthrough. Big crowd of enemies run back and unload it they all died. The only other explosive weapons i ever found a use for was an explosive magshear but the actual grenade launchers do bupkis to the enemies for damage yet they will kill you real quick if an enemy is blasting away at you.
That dipping is the actual type of round your using.. change it at a bench to normal explosive and it will fix. Also normal explosive does higher damage. The type of round (hornets nest) your using is designed to explode downwards so you can hit people hiding behind cover at will. Explosive has issues with high armor targets.. if your lucky find a weapon with piercing/penetration or something I forget what it’s called.
I downloaded a mod on Xbox that gives the Bridger the heavy weapon and ballistic perk because apparently by default it doesn't work. Not sure if this will help but try it out and see what you think.
Agree this was a known issue. Also are you comparing the same difficulty as you did in the past? Grenade launchers are area of effect weapons not single target. I thought the trajectory issue was fixed I a prior patch.
That mod makes no sense to me. The Bridger shouldn't be ballistic; it should be demolitions. I would also argue that it should be a rifle instead of a heavy, but that is less clear.
Coachman with Hornets Nest is the only explosive weapon off any merit for me. Then only for fun🎉🎉 Totally agree with your assessment. Cryo mines useful, the rest suck- drop-drop all except cryo mines. Don’t know why the bosses drop so many Negotiators-totally useless for me
Here's a question: Why is a Coachman with Hornet's Nest rounds better than any grenade launcher? I completely agree with the premise of this video. In fact, all explosive grenades (as opposed to specialized grenade and mines) are niche, at bet.
Its crazy bc the coachman is one of the least expensive weapons.. gotta love the bang for the buck. Is the answer to lower the coachman or raise bridger and negotiator ?
Same for me, I like ballistics and dislike heavies except for the MagStorm although I prefer the MagShear. I automatically sell most melee and heavies. There's another gotcha right now (unless it's been fixed) where if you have any throwables equipped, it kills your reloading speed perks. I will carry throwables for "just in case" scenarios but I don't keep any equipped. Nades are handy for dislodging npc's sometimes.
Comparing very hard difficulty settings to extreme is unfair. It is supposed to do less damage on extreme. If you think the extreme settings are unfair for you, play on very difficult settings instead. Or play at normal, easy or very easy if you derive a one shot kill.
Ron, I don’t just play extreme difficulty I am Extreme difficulty 😂. I grind extreme with a grey maelstrom in a level 75 system with a level 4 character and I have plenty of videos on how to do it. but that is besides the point. Explosive weapons are not balanced and neither are melee weapons. Advocating for a game where people don’t have to use 2 or 3 weapons out of 30+ is what I am driving toward. Between balance will actually help people gravitate toward more variety making the game more fun, instead of always going for the Inflictor / Beowulf or hard target. It’s a game it’s meant to be fun, it shouldn’t punish you for choosing non meta weapons
I don't use them at all because I kill myself more then the NPC's. But then again I really don't use them in any game I play that has them. I do agree though,,, there're not very good in this game.
I've killed myself so many times with explosive weapons that I just don't like using them. I'm too flippant with them. LOL. But it is realistic. Don't play around with explosives. Be careful.
My friend, they JUST rebalanced melee weapons. You can mod them now and I think they're dropping with different qualities. Unsure of that as I don't use melee, as that's the last thing my sniper desires.
@deanpogaming point damage vs aoe. I've been playing swat mode since the first week by using setgs fDiffMultHPbyPCVH 7 setgs fDiffMultHPtoPCVH 7 This basic makes the game a deadly multi-directional firing range.
Игры
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The dipping is you are using hornet's nest. Don't use that mod on the 40mm weapons. Use it on the coachman.
Yeah the coachman does massiv dmg even on high lvl but😅
Agree. I use a coachman as well. Got one that has the effect where if you hit a limb the next hit does extra damage and the thing always hits a limb so it pretty much always get the bonus.
I love a hornets nest coachman with extended mag. It’s my favorite for boarding ships
Grenades and explosives are not designed to be used on single targets. You can't compare the damage it does to one enemy to other weapons. You need to look at how it damages a group of enemies.
Comment for the algorithm .. I’m watching it now
I don't know if anyone mentioned it but at the end when you're looking at old clips of it the no dip on the one base was because of the low gravity that does effect how far grenades go.
That's what I was thinking before the older clips is that it could be gravity related.
I think part of the issue with explosive damage is if they correctly balance it, they have to address NPC ammo not depleting. When pirates & such have grenades in their inventory they use the F out of them.
Grenades need a buff for sure. Totally agree with everything you have said.
Planet gravity seems to play a big part now. The higher the gravity, the more the dip, the less range the weapon has.
Darkfox was in the Creation Kit and he said there tiered items IE: Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3. But BGS didn't apply the "effect" that should have been associated with each tier. So it will state its tier 3 but the effect is still tier 2.
You're right about the grenades dropping, that's new. Hand grenades are almost useless.
The only thing I use mines, grenades, negotiator, and the Bridger for are quick credits.
I agree that these types of heavy weapons and explosives need to be buffed. I typically only carry one of these weapons for creature control.
Agree but I love mines just to give you some stagger time inflict quick damage and also help reveal if they are flanking you.
I actually stopped using my beloved Skip Shot with Extended Mag and Hornets Nest Coachman because I kept killing myself. Used it again since I’m playing on extreme and wow, you one tap yourself now if you’re not careful
Explosives are for AoE and utility. ie moderate to severe damage over multiple targets. Use Explosives on groups to soften them and switch to a single target weapon.
Stopped using hornets nest a long time ago. I was never happy with the perk as it goes downwards. Negotiators I always use explosive rounds. They travel straight and true. I do not see anything different from using it before. Used a negotiator last night. No difference from pre patch.
They did change them, try one out without hornets nest. I love to use the launchers when enemy ships land and you can take out the landing crew with one or two shots. That same thing can be accomplished with a double barrel shotgun and hornets nest, they seem about the same to me now.
Looking at all of the comments here, the best point made is the one about nerfing NPC unlimited ammo. Obviously, if explosives damage were proportionate to the damage that can be done with rifles, particle beams, etc., NPCs with grenades or launchers would be overpowered. One answer might be to buff the explosives and heavy weapons perks. That way, players can level up to more realistic explosives damages without facing overpowered NPCs that make the combat impossible with unlimited explosives.
The 'nade launchers are entirely situational. They are for splash damage at medium range against targets using cover. But really. There are much better options available.
Some explosives are underwhelming, but I'm not too upset because a launcher's range is maybe in the mid-30's at best (?), further on planets with low grav. To be fair though, I suppose that in testing grenades and other explosive weapons (with a higher physicality), they probably killed the player and the enemy. When I think of how many grenades I threw (or were thrown by a companion) that inadvertently bounced near me, I suppose being too powerful might be a detriment. It's a tricky balance that I'm sure some players would complain about if it were the opposite.
I agree with you DeanPo, the AA-99 with explosive rounds has a concussive effect, the 40 XPL only affects the target pretty much if it's a direct hit. Explosives should stagger every time and they should be a bigger deal in game. ✌️
That’s a good point.. I love using AA-99 specifically for that build
Maybe. The thrown ones for sure. But given that it hits an area and can be used to target people you can't see it needs to be weaker than direct fire. They may have gone too far in making it weaker but im not sure by how much.
Hey Mate- There are 2 free Creation mods that fix this, one is called 'Bridger Fix' it states that neither explosives nor Ballistics affects any Bridgers and the other Mod is a ' player damage scaling' (?) mod that has ALL the vanilla weapons , Explosives from Grenades, and melee, plus more Scales to Players level to keep it relevant not only for you, but against you as well, to challenge the player throughout the game❤
One inch Punch weapons ALL have a limited range around 20-25 maximum that is their drawback even Hard Target/Magsniper are capped out at 25, basically converted to Shotguns😂
Personally, sometimes I force myself to use mines and grenade launchers, but strictly if I’m either role playing a character that uses them or if trying to make combat more difficult for myself. It absolutely not balanced. I don’t mind making things harder for myself sometimes, but this should be reworked. I don’t like having to use weaker weapons to make the game more challenging and the coachman with hornets nest is essentially better than both of these heavy weapons with much more common ammo.
The only explosive weapon i ever found any use for was a coachman with hornets nest on it with the extended mag and i think it was shattering or instigating the one i had. That weapon was my oh fuck boom stick in my first playthrough. Big crowd of enemies run back and unload it they all died. The only other explosive weapons i ever found a use for was an explosive magshear but the actual grenade launchers do bupkis to the enemies for damage yet they will kill you real quick if an enemy is blasting away at you.
Does it need to be held to shoot further? Should be an option to curve the projectile any angle desired. Like a boomerang
Having problems since downloading creation club mods sound disappear and the Star born gravis suit not appearing
The pistol mod is usually the problem. If you downloaded the .45 pistol, remove and restart your save.
That dipping is the actual type of round your using.. change it at a bench to normal explosive and it will fix. Also normal explosive does higher damage. The type of round (hornets nest) your using is designed to explode downwards so you can hit people hiding behind cover at will. Explosive has issues with high armor targets.. if your lucky find a weapon with piercing/penetration or something I forget what it’s called.
Yeah i believe its the hornets nest weapon mod that makes to grenades dip
The heavies should have a minimum of 500 damage and be upgradable to at least 800. JMT.
I downloaded a mod on Xbox that gives the Bridger the heavy weapon and ballistic perk because apparently by default it doesn't work. Not sure if this will help but try it out and see what you think.
Agree this was a known issue. Also are you comparing the same difficulty as you did in the past? Grenade launchers are area of effect weapons not single target. I thought the trajectory issue was fixed I a prior patch.
That mod makes no sense to me. The Bridger shouldn't be ballistic; it should be demolitions. I would also argue that it should be a rifle instead of a heavy, but that is less clear.
Coachman with Hornets Nest is the only explosive weapon off any merit for me. Then only for fun🎉🎉
Totally agree with your assessment.
Cryo mines useful, the rest suck- drop-drop all except cryo mines.
Don’t know why the bosses drop so many Negotiators-totally useless for me
Yes they have changed the range of the launcher! I don’t use them much. And now even less. lol 😂
Giving one to a companion is fun. And, the launchers don't cause collateral damage to you like nades do. But yeah, otherwise pretty underwhelming.
Fun but Russian roulette
Great
Here's a question: Why is a Coachman with Hornet's Nest rounds better than any grenade launcher?
I completely agree with the premise of this video.
In fact, all explosive grenades (as opposed to specialized grenade and mines) are niche, at bet.
Its crazy bc the coachman is one of the least expensive weapons.. gotta love the bang for the buck.
Is the answer to lower the coachman or raise bridger and negotiator ?
This is why any explosives I come across go into the ships hold to be sold for creds later
Rightfully so
Same for me, I like ballistics and dislike heavies except for the MagStorm although I prefer the MagShear. I automatically sell most melee and heavies. There's another gotcha right now (unless it's been fixed) where if you have any throwables equipped, it kills your reloading speed perks. I will carry throwables for "just in case" scenarios but I don't keep any equipped. Nades are handy for dislodging npc's sometimes.
I reroll on explosive weapons all the time they are awful for the weight of the ammo and the gun
Funny that a shotgun is the best explosives weapon
Your right explosives suck,..and it sucks.
Comparing very hard difficulty settings to extreme is unfair. It is supposed to do less damage on extreme.
If you think the extreme settings are unfair for you, play on very difficult settings instead. Or play at normal, easy or very easy if you derive a one shot kill.
Ron, I don’t just play extreme difficulty I am
Extreme difficulty 😂. I grind extreme with a grey maelstrom in a level 75 system with a level 4 character and I have plenty of videos on how to do it. but that is besides the point.
Explosive weapons are not balanced and neither are melee weapons.
Advocating for a game where people don’t have to use 2 or 3 weapons out of 30+ is what I am driving toward.
Between balance will actually help people gravitate toward more variety making the game more fun, instead of always going for the Inflictor / Beowulf or hard target.
It’s a game it’s meant to be fun, it shouldn’t punish you for choosing non meta weapons
I don't use them at all because I kill myself more then the NPC's. But then again I really don't use them in any game I play that has them. I do agree though,,, there're not very good in this game.
I've killed myself so many times with explosive weapons that I just don't like using them. I'm too flippant with them. LOL. But it is realistic. Don't play around with explosives. Be careful.
it wont be fun if you can one shot everything on extreme with grenade launchers
Honestly your better off using a shotgun with eplo rounds thats what i use
Well dude you ARE playing with greatly reduced player damage active so naturally they aren't doing that much damage.
My friend, they JUST rebalanced melee weapons. You can mod them now and I think they're dropping with different qualities. Unsure of that as I don't use melee, as that's the last thing my sniper desires.
They buffed them, but still need to fix animations and skill tree =)
Your damage is turned down. ....
My thoughts too. Put it back to very hard and see if it’s the same
It doesn’t matter because the baseline would be the same for all weapons. Damage would be turned down for particle weapons too yet they still perform
@deanpogaming point damage vs aoe. I've been playing swat mode since the first week by using
setgs fDiffMultHPbyPCVH 7
setgs fDiffMultHPtoPCVH 7
This basic makes the game a deadly multi-directional firing range.
Nah, bro. Grenades and mines are good. At the very least, they're fun!
Careful or God Howard will "fix" weak heavy weapon damage by making particle weapons weaker 😅