I always wondered how these instruments were designed...you explained expertly! It's been difficult for me to believe that they were organically designed, Geomety saves the day!!
And with all of this information, I am left wondering what you might find if you applied those points to the Stradavari design in 3 dimensions. Do those points influence the curvature of the top and back at all, or the carving of the shapes inside the box?
The treble f-hole is raised slightly which increases the area of the top to the left of the f-hole itself. This will accentuate the lower frequencies of the e string but allow for more flexibility in the carving of the tweeter region. The carving of this region is a complex issue and requires advanced study (see Wm. F. Fry).
I wonder if the reason for the 1mm difference of the treble F-hole to the bass F-hole is purposely done to offset phase cancellation of certain frequencies or to cause phase cancellation of a specific frequency Ala the wolf tone. Helmholz resonators are used in studios to capture certain low frequencies. Or it could be the position of the violin when played has the bass side closer to the player's ear. With higher frequencies being faster than lower frequencies, maybe the 1mm position further with the treble F-hole helps with both frequencies arriving to the player's ears at the same time avoiding phase incoherency or cancellation. Studio mix engineers like to position themselves in the middle of the equilateral triangle between their studio monitors and their listening position for this very reason that if one speaker is closer than the other, it will create anomalies that they will inherently be trying to get rid of that don't exist thus affecting their mix decisions in a negative way.
Well, I suppose you could make a plug or cover for the f-hole, and then analyze the sound result. Then you could make a test violin with one f-hole. With all the circles, some makers may have had some numerology beliefs, maybe based on ratios of numbers, like golden means, Fibbonacci sequence, pi=3.14, etc.
This has all been done many times. The f-holes provide a complex vibrational topology for the sound board of the violin. They are based on a differential curve.
I tried to overlay a stradivari cello construction plan with the basic squares and radiusses. For some reason the proportions shown in your video don‘t fully apply. The upper and the lower square do not meet, instead they overlap. I tried to verify my drawing to check the f hole placement. Could it be that Stradivari constructed the cello forma B also with thoughts of handling the instrument in mind.? On which geometrical bases the f holes placed?
I did the same thing with a cad drawing of a Strad and I got the same result. The "Squares" over-lap. The only possible way to get the cad drawing to match his sketch was to use rectangles. Basically have them come together at the very top of the f-holes. The other issue I had with the cad drawing was matching the F-holes. With the two circles perfectly intersecting the exact center of the top and bottom F-holes, there is no way to lower the bass side by 1 mm.
I can relate the visual harmony coming from the diagrams .To my modern eye I can relate the opposite influences of many UK car designers and how there is so little harmony compared to Japanese or Italian cars . I struggle to see how the visual ---influences the aural effects . There may be a connection if two types of instruments are made to compete against each other. One with visual harmony and one without . But the great violin makers may have used other elements to create the sound . They took enormous care over everything they made . Many exact copies of these instruments have already been made. That did not reproduce the sound quality regardless of lines or circles or symmetry.
Really think about it. Stradovarius was essentially using a pencil to draw what CAD software does in a few bazillion clicks... Centuries before the thought of CAD existed. Imagine what could be done if he was alive today.
Think it's guessing? I wouldn't agree. Seems logical deduction, especially conaidering the alchemical subculture of the times in which this instruments was designed. If you were to follow that architecture of the same era, you'll find the same geometric rules applied for the exact same reasons. Golden ratios, determining everything to create functionality. Do the math they sat, indeed.
It may have been made 300 years go but it exists with us here today. This is not "guessing", it's observtion of physical reality. Only the thought behind it is a matter of some speculation, which may become better known with further analysis.
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Interesting discoveries. Do you have any information on his bassbar and sound post placements? Thanks...
I always wondered how these instruments were designed...you explained expertly! It's been difficult for me to believe that they were organically designed, Geomety saves the day!!
And with all of this information, I am left wondering what you might find if you applied those points to the Stradavari design in 3 dimensions. Do those points influence the curvature of the top and back at all, or the carving of the shapes inside the box?
The treble f-hole is raised slightly which increases the area of the top to the left of the f-hole itself. This will accentuate the lower frequencies of the e string but allow for more flexibility in the carving of the tweeter region. The carving of this region is a complex issue and requires advanced study (see Wm. F. Fry).
I would say yes it does affect the sound. They all knew those tweeks.
I wonder if the reason for the 1mm difference of the treble F-hole to the bass F-hole is purposely done to offset phase cancellation of certain frequencies or to cause phase cancellation of a specific frequency Ala the wolf tone. Helmholz resonators are used in studios to capture certain low frequencies. Or it could be the position of the violin when played has the bass side closer to the player's ear. With higher frequencies being faster than lower frequencies, maybe the 1mm position further with the treble F-hole helps with both frequencies arriving to the player's ears at the same time avoiding phase incoherency or cancellation. Studio mix engineers like to position themselves in the middle of the equilateral triangle between their studio monitors and their listening position for this very reason that if one speaker is closer than the other, it will create anomalies that they will inherently be trying to get rid of that don't exist thus affecting their mix decisions in a negative way.
Well, I suppose you could make a plug or cover for the f-hole, and then analyze the sound result.
Then you could make a test violin with one f-hole.
With all the circles, some makers may have had some numerology beliefs, maybe based on ratios of numbers, like golden means, Fibbonacci sequence, pi=3.14, etc.
This has all been done many times. The f-holes provide a complex vibrational topology for the sound board of the violin. They are based on a differential curve.
I tried to overlay a stradivari cello construction plan with the basic squares and radiusses. For some reason the proportions shown in your video don‘t fully apply. The upper and the lower square do not meet, instead they overlap.
I tried to verify my drawing to check the f hole placement.
Could it be that Stradivari constructed the cello forma B also with thoughts of handling the instrument in mind.?
On which geometrical bases the f holes placed?
I did the same thing with a cad drawing of a Strad and I got the same result. The "Squares" over-lap. The only possible way to get the cad drawing to match his sketch was to use rectangles. Basically have them come together at the very top of the f-holes. The other issue I had with the cad drawing was matching the F-holes. With the two circles perfectly intersecting the exact center of the top and bottom F-holes, there is no way to lower the bass side by 1 mm.
@@danielferraro7624 so what do you make of this? Any conclusions?
I can relate the visual harmony coming from the diagrams .To my modern eye I can relate the opposite influences of many UK car designers and how there is so little harmony compared to Japanese or Italian cars . I struggle to see how the visual ---influences the aural effects . There may be a connection if two types of instruments are made to compete against each other. One with visual harmony and one without . But the great violin makers may have used other elements to create the sound . They took enormous care over everything they made . Many exact copies of these instruments have already been made. That did not reproduce the sound quality regardless of lines or circles or symmetry.
WOW! Thank you for sharing, Sir.
It would be interesting to see you use this geometry on a Nicoli Amati as he devised the grand pattern which other violin makers of the day adopted.
Really think about it.
Stradovarius was essentially using a pencil to draw what CAD software does in a few bazillion clicks...
Centuries before the thought of CAD existed.
Imagine what could be done if he was alive today.
This guy reminds me of Uncle Doug (guitar amp repair) videos.
I think the difference between the f-holes is for intonation reason
Thank you!
Thank sir
All i know is he wasn't spending £300 on a glue pot or £200 on one ibex finger plane. Lol
that's alot of guessing on something that was made well over 300 years ago...
Think it's guessing? I wouldn't agree. Seems logical deduction, especially conaidering the alchemical subculture of the times in which this instruments was designed.
If you were to follow that architecture of the same era, you'll find the same geometric rules applied for the exact same reasons.
Golden ratios, determining everything to create functionality.
Do the math they sat, indeed.
It may have been made 300 years go but it exists with us here today. This is not "guessing", it's observtion of physical reality. Only the thought behind it is a matter of some speculation, which may become better known with further analysis.
Maybe the answer lies with ancient aliens.