Hi, I'm a luthier and have done some scholarly research on renaissance humanist theory and Pythagoreanism and I can tell you that your absolutely on the right track noticing the pythagorean ratio relationships in the construction of the instrument. However, this approach is not unique to Stradivari or the Cremonese or even the Italians. It is most likely an artifact left over from the method of design and aesthetic principals favored by the humanist movement of the Renaissance. Keep in mind that whether one was designing a viol or violin in the 16th or 17th century, you wouldn't be using a standard ruler as there was no standard of measurement. Rather than designing an instrument over a grid of square centimeters, I maker would begin by establishing several key points, like the bridge and nut positions from which all the positions of the string harmonics can be derived. Working outward from these points, a compass and slide rule would be used to establish new points of reference and ultimately find the shape of the instrument. If you haven't tried designing an instrument with a compass before, I really suggest you go for it. You'll see how sensible using simple ratios actually is. Certainly, designing this way does effect the sound of the instrument, but not to the same degree that materials would. I recommend the book "Geometry, Proportion, and the Art of Lutherie" by Kevin Coates if you can find a affordable copy or a library with one.
Very interesting. If I was a sound engineer I'm sure I'd have better and more precise language to describe these thoughts. This is the best I can do. My layman's thought is that the great precision in the layout and subsequent construction translated into a high precision of sound wave for each string. If those soundwaves were thought of as an expanding sphere, then perhaps the goal of the design was that those spheres of sound could be refined so that they did not cancel each other out as the sound traveled some distance from the instrument. That they did not cancel each other out would mean that the instrument would have a louder voice at distance then would an instrument where interfering sound waves were in evidence.
olá eu adorei seu vídeo. estou querendo saber a medida das esferas pra que eu possa fazer minha própria medida para o molde do violino. pode me ajudar? um abraço!
The Golden Section (0.618...) is a historical falsification of the 19th century. An approximation of the Golden Section appears in art and architecture as a subset of the geometrical progression of proportions (part of the Fibonacci string, namely 3/5 = 0.6 and 8/13=0.615). Ancient to Renaissance craftsmen didn't work with the Golden Section itself, but with (among others) a set of very similar ratios, which has many researchers (including Wikipedia) confusing the two.
Could it also be that if he lost his templates, forms, and drawings and did not have access to one of his own fiddles to take apart, he could easily be back in business?
It's interesting you talking about the PG form. I'm building from that one now. I'm copying the Titian Strad. I have a full size photo but would like a copy of your tracing. Is there any chance I could get one? I've only ever seen the front side with the two small compass arcs. is there anything inscribed on the back side? Did you know that the letters PG is in Count Cozio's handwriting? Cozio wrote on a lot of Strad's artifacts.
@@catalinquercinola7553 Actually I'm not trying to make a bench copy of the Titian, just using the PG form to make a generic Strad like violin. Trying to incorporate as many Strad like details as I can. Edited this reply, initially I thought it was Mr. Erving that replied, sorry my bad.
@@CooperViolins no I have never been on but unfortunately my wife has, (not telling) I apologize for anything rude that she has said, she means well but doesn't really have a filter
You know what really cracks me up? Is when I see some bonehead claim they have a Stradivarius violin and show me the label on the inside to prove it. Then I burst their little bubble and ruin their dreams of having a million dollar violin. Their violin turns out to be a machine made fine looking piece of firewood, or suitable for hanging on a wall for decoration! Non-Luthier's are ignorant and dont realize that there are basically two patterns, and the label actual states that the machine that made it used the Stradivarius pattern! Then they claim I'm lying and trying to buy their violin for dirt cheap and cheat them out of the millions that it is not worth! I always tell them I'm not interested in buying their cheap junk at any price. I then provide them with several addresses to get their "firewood" appraised at if they dont believe me. Guess what... they always take the bait... and end up paying about 10 to 20 times more than their "strad" is worth! Then its "I told you so... I didnt lie!". All 30 of my violins here are all handmade by me. I won't own a machine made instrument! I'm about to build a electric contra double bass! Its total playable string length is 66 inches! The scroll will be so huge that I have to glue about 6 blocks together to make it! I think the entire construction time will be about 5 days!
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Hi, I'm a luthier and have done some scholarly research on renaissance humanist theory and Pythagoreanism and I can tell you that your absolutely on the right track noticing the pythagorean ratio relationships in the construction of the instrument. However, this approach is not unique to Stradivari or the Cremonese or even the Italians. It is most likely an artifact left over from the method of design and aesthetic principals favored by the humanist movement of the Renaissance. Keep in mind that whether one was designing a viol or violin in the 16th or 17th century, you wouldn't be using a standard ruler as there was no standard of measurement. Rather than designing an instrument over a grid of square centimeters, I maker would begin by establishing several key points, like the bridge and nut positions from which all the positions of the string harmonics can be derived. Working outward from these points, a compass and slide rule would be used to establish new points of reference and ultimately find the shape of the instrument. If you haven't tried designing an instrument with a compass before, I really suggest you go for it. You'll see how sensible using simple ratios actually is. Certainly, designing this way does effect the sound of the instrument, but not to the same degree that materials would. I recommend the book "Geometry, Proportion, and the Art of Lutherie" by Kevin Coates if you can find a affordable copy or a library with one.
Now, this is what the internet should be used for to educate and enlighten thank you so much.
Very interesting. If I was a sound engineer I'm sure I'd have better and more precise language to describe these thoughts. This is the best I can do. My layman's thought is that the great precision in the layout and subsequent construction translated into a high precision of sound wave for each string. If those soundwaves were thought of as an expanding sphere, then perhaps the goal of the design was that those spheres of sound could be refined so that they did not cancel each other out as the sound traveled some distance from the instrument. That they did not cancel each other out would mean that the instrument would have a louder voice at distance then would an instrument where interfering sound waves were in evidence.
I would gladly pay for a scanned image of your tracings! Please post them somewhere.. or post it open source? Please! Pretty please!
olá eu adorei seu vídeo. estou querendo saber a medida das esferas pra que eu possa fazer minha própria medida para o molde do violino. pode me ajudar? um abraço!
The Pythagorean fractional ratios are present and obviously used; have you found the golden ratio in any of the measurements?
The Golden Section (0.618...) is a historical falsification of the 19th century. An approximation of the Golden Section appears in art and architecture as a subset of the geometrical progression of proportions (part of the Fibonacci string, namely 3/5 = 0.6 and 8/13=0.615). Ancient to Renaissance craftsmen didn't work with the Golden Section itself, but with (among others) a set of very similar ratios, which has many researchers (including Wikipedia) confusing the two.
Could it also be that if he lost his templates, forms, and drawings and did not have access to one of his own fiddles to take apart, he could easily be back in business?
It's interesting you talking about the PG form. I'm building from that one now. I'm copying the Titian Strad. I have a full size photo but would like a copy of your tracing. Is there any chance I could get one? I've only ever seen the front side with the two small compass arcs. is there anything inscribed on the back side? Did you know that the letters PG is in Count Cozio's handwriting? Cozio wrote on a lot of Strad's artifacts.
The Tutian is built on the P form not the PG
@@catalinquercinola7553 Actually I'm not trying to make a bench copy of the Titian, just using the PG form to make a generic Strad like violin. Trying to incorporate as many Strad like details as I can. Edited this reply, initially I thought it was Mr. Erving that replied, sorry my bad.
@@catalinquercinola7553 Your name seems familiar to me. Have you been on Maestronet?
@@CooperViolins no I have never been on but unfortunately my wife has, (not telling) I apologize for anything rude that she has said, she means well but doesn't really have a filter
@@catalinquercinola7553 LOL no worries, I'm familiar with her. We corresponded some regarding varnish back some time ago. Good to meet you here.
Why not publish a book of tracings?
Hi Charles, may I have a copy of this form? Thanks,
Hi Jon, would you please call me to discuss your request? Thanks, Charles (512) 467-2277 or (575) 613-5677
Check out video
You know what really cracks me up? Is when I see some bonehead claim they have a Stradivarius violin and show me the label on the inside to prove it. Then I burst their little bubble and ruin their dreams of having a million dollar violin. Their violin turns out to be a machine made fine looking piece of firewood, or suitable for hanging on a wall for decoration! Non-Luthier's are ignorant and dont realize that there are basically two patterns, and the label actual states that the machine that made it used the Stradivarius pattern! Then they claim I'm lying and trying to buy their violin for dirt cheap and cheat them out of the millions that it is not worth! I always tell them I'm not interested in buying their cheap junk at any price. I then provide them with several addresses to get their "firewood" appraised at if they dont believe me. Guess what... they always take the bait... and end up paying about 10 to 20 times more than their "strad" is worth! Then its "I told you so... I didnt lie!". All 30 of my violins here are all handmade by me. I won't own a machine made instrument! I'm about to build a electric contra double bass! Its total playable string length is 66 inches! The scroll will be so huge that I have to glue about 6 blocks together to make it! I think the entire construction time will be about 5 days!