I wanted to add a little to the discussion around safety and toxicity of jewelry materials. In the EU, the main focus on hazardous substances has been the control of materials which pose the greatest occupation risks, notably in the electronic industry. On top of that list are: Lead, Mercury, Cadmium. In the past, all three materials have been used in the jewelry industry, and still are in certain parts of the world. Therefore, the greatest risk is not the handling of materials you may buy to make jewelry, but encountering hazardous substances when repairing or changing jewelry made overseas in less regulated situations. For example, poorly refined (or debased) silver might include lead, and reclaimed gold might include mercury. And cadmium has been an ingredient in solders too.
Hi Kurt, Thank you for posting such a thoughtful comment. The information that you shared is often overlooked when the subject of safety concerns is addressed. For our viewers who are reading the comments, it's important to remember that these concerns are applicable to some antique jewelry that was manufactured in the US and Europe. And.there has been Cadmium related recalls of jewelry as recent at 2010 in the US. Thanks for your support! : )
Great video! Thank you. I hate fire scale. A teacher I had years ago used an acetylene & air torch which made a flame that did not create fire scale. I could not afford that set up at the time. Also did not know about boric acid and alcohol. I'll run over to the hardware store today and get those items. Damn that would have saved me a lot if work and a lot of silver I had to sand off! I'm going to try to create a non-oxidizing flame on my micro torch in the mean time and test it on some little bits of silver. Thanks again!
Hi Steven, Glad you enjoyed the video. But, fire scale is almost impossible to avoid. I've never heard of a soldering situation where there was no oxidizing of the metal. If metal is exposed to heat in an atmosphere where Oxygen is present, it's going to oxidize. There are a number of steps that you can take to reduce the oxidation of your metal. But, nothing is perfect. If you hate dealing with fire scale, you can always "frost" your pieces or get them plated. And the OJA has videos on both topics. Good luck with your creative pursuits. Thanks for your support! : )
Being a bit of a science/chemistry guy, I looked into a safer alternative to boric acid and did some experiments tonight. When you add sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda) to boric acid, it becomes sodium borate-a more stable salt and less hazardous material also known as borax-a household product used in laundry detergents. Applying a solution of denatured alcohol and sodium borate to both copper and silver, then heating with my torch, I find it does just as good a job of inhibiting oxidation as boric acid. And, it doesn’t leave powdery residue everywhere. Under high heat, it will vitrify (turn glassy) but that’s easily removed in a pickle. Since it’s a safer material per MSDS, I’m using this instead. If you want to try it, get it in the grocery under the “20 Mule Team” brand.
Hi Kurt, Thanks for posting your very informative comment. I'm sure some of our subscribers will really appreciate the information. The product you mentioned is often used as a flux in direct casting. We mention this in a couple of our casting videos. Thanks for your support! : )
Not that it really matters to anyone but myself, but I try to correct any bad info I put out there. Past my initial tests of borax as a firescale barrier for sterling silver--it actually does not work well in practice. Firstly, the borax expands under heat and moves the piece around--which can be a real problem when carefully positioning an item to solder. Borax either reacts with the silver or leaves areas exposed--it leaves some globs of cupric oxide (a red mineral) on the surface that actually dig into the surface and take aggressive polishing to remove. None of the above happens with boric acid.
@@kurtstory9466 A lot of chemicals jewelers use daily are extremely hazardous. You'd be surprised at some of the stuff that used to be used back in the day, such as the asbestos soldering pads, cadmium alloy solders, chemical oxide bombing (using cyanide), and the old gold plating solutions used cyanide as well. I have read about several jeweler deaths from cyanide poisoning when they didn't take enough precautions against these chemicals. I always too safety seriously whenever I did plating or soldering operations. There are now plating solutions without cyanide as well as cadmium-free solders. The cadmium-free solders don't flow nearly as well as the cadmium based ones, but that's something I can live with in order to not work with such a toxic metal.
The red stuff comes off in my pickle - which is hot vinegar... I work with silver and use borax with tap water, thinned to the consistency of skim milk. Too much white foam when you heat means not enough water. It’s much easier to place solder after the flux has melted. To keep elements from shifting, heat the piece very very gently until the water steams off, then go for it.
As always, concise and useful information for metal working. :) I don't usually contribute to youtube channels, but I will on yours--it's been very helpful, thank you!
This is also a great way to protect chain from melting or sticking to a jump ring, when you're soldering a jump ring closed. I guess for the same reason - it creates a sort of seal against the intensity of the heat. I always get the boric acid on my fingers, though, and I wonder if that's terribly unhealthy - after all, isn't it used to kill insects?
+jaykay415 It is not terrible as long as you wash your hands after and before eating and avoid it touching an open wound or cut to be safe. :) Boric acid is fairly safe and has some interesting topical medical applications but I wouldn't want to inhale or ingest it.
+jaykay415 It looks like you generated some healthy conversation (pun intended). I just want to add that it would be better to use yellow ocher to prevent solder from running where you don't want it. Thanks for watching! : )
+OnlineJewelryAcademy Hi John, I do use yellow ochre for that, and sometimes Rio Chill Gel, depending on the application. But I've found the boric acid and denatured alcohol very effective with small chain. It's not stopping solder flow, in this case, but keeping the tiny links from fusing to each other and to the jump ring.
+Coleen Taylor If you aren't sure if you have firescale on a piece, just reflect a white surface on the silver. If firescale is present it will show up as grey smudges on your piece. Thanks for watching! : )
+Gabby Flying Chef I've also been advised that you make a 50/50 mix - which is seriously runny and doesn't coat that well....might have to give this thick mix a go instead!
I use a mix of boric acid and water as flux to solder silver. If all the piece is hot , would the solder flow evenly as the surface is covered with Boric Acid?
The short answer is, yes it could. Now for the longer answer. The heat from your torch can be used to direct the flow of the solder. So long as you don't overheat the entire piece, the solder should only flow into seams due to capillary motion. That's when the very thin space between objects creates a natural pull on liquids. I hope this helps put your mind at ease. Thanks for your support! : )
Hi, wouod this work on brass? I notice when I work with brass it starts to look like copper after the fire... I have to scrub it off and sometimes it doesnt all come off. Thanks.
You need to watch another OJA video entitled “cleaning copper blush off of brass after soldering”. In short, a different pickle solution will correct the problem. 😀
Hello sir, silver anklets become completely black while soldering, when attaching a small bell like shape into it. Can we prevent that black fire stain. Does this method work for that too? Please reply sir
I don’t think that the anklets are silver. Attaching a small bell with a soldered jump ring should not turn the whole anklet black. But the information in the video should help you to inhibit firescale. 👽
Ugh, I've had so many issues with firesale and since I am mostly a self taught silversmith, I never knew what it was! Thank you for this video! I will have to try this and see how it works for me. I have one question. Is the denatured alcohol necessary to make the slurry? Can I use water instead of denatured alcohol and obtain the same protective result? Thank you!
Hi Tina, There are lots of products on the market that do the same thing as the materials I demonstrated with in the video. I believe that some might be water based. You'd have to look at the product descriptions to be sure. I don't believe that the boric acid will adhere to the silver without using denatured alcohol. I've honestly never tried it that way. Try a quick experiment and see what happens. As a rule of thumb, get in and out with the heat as soon as possible. The less you expose your work to heat the less fire scale you'll build up on your work. Good luck! Thanks for your support! : )
Distilled water works, alcohol may be more effective though. It does seem like there would be some reason many recommend alcohol. I would use grain alcohol though unless I knew for a fact that burning off the denatured was relatively safe or you have excellent ventilation.
Married metals are beautiful. Just a heads up... You can't cut corners when you are fitting together a married metals project. All of the pieces have to fit together snugly. Good luck! Thanks for your support! : )
If you get this stuff on the area you plan do solder, does it interfere with the soldering in any way? Do you need to clean it off that area before you solder? If you brush it on instead of dipping it, can you use the same brush you use for painting flux on? Thank you.
+salvagedsword Thank you for your great questions. I hope people read the comments section and see this exchange. It is bad to solder over fire scale. It should always be removed before you solder. It can cause the solder joint to break later when it is stressed. Brushing on the oxidation inhibitor won't be as uniform and effective as dipping your project into it. But, you can get away with doing it. I would recommend using separate brushes for various operations. Good luck with your projects! Thanks for watching! : )
Salvagedsword I think your question was misunderstood. Were you asking about needing to remove the boric acid flux from your solder point before fluxing for your actual soldering ? The answer was warning against soldering over Fire Scale, not boric acid protection flux. I too wonder if you need to clean the boric acid / alcohol flux off the exact spot where you are wanting to solder. My understanding is that the protective coating will not affect the normal soldering action so you can leave the coating on. OJA Please clarify if you will.
Mr Laff: Yes, I was wondering if the boric acid coating would impede the soldering in any way. I just went ahead and tested it out last year and found it doesn't interfere if you don't clean the boric acid off the exact area you plan on soldering. I also wanted to know if it was fine to mix it with regular flux and it's okay to do so. In fact, you can substitute the boric acid and alcohol mixture for your regular flux in a pinch.
I couldn’t find boric acid at the pharmacy. Apparently it’s not sold there anymore. So I went to Home Depot and found roach killer but it was orthoboric acid. Is it the same thing?
No such thing as "argentum" pal. Germanium is the word you seek and the ingredient in Argentium silver that keeps it from tarnishing and the lack of copper of course.
+ThePillenwerfer Not if you do what he did and light it to burn off the alcohol. It looks like flux but it's not.You actually do still need flux. I've done this and it works beautifully. I would caution anyone to be careful not to light it or use a torch with the lid off of the jar though. If you should do that, DON'T PANIC. Simply place the lid on the jar to stop the fire.
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
I wanted to add a little to the discussion around safety and toxicity of jewelry materials. In the EU, the main focus on hazardous substances has been the control of materials which pose the greatest occupation risks, notably in the electronic industry. On top of that list are: Lead, Mercury, Cadmium. In the past, all three materials have been used in the jewelry industry, and still are in certain parts of the world. Therefore, the greatest risk is not the handling of materials you may buy to make jewelry, but encountering hazardous substances when repairing or changing jewelry made overseas in less regulated situations. For example, poorly refined (or debased) silver might include lead, and reclaimed gold might include mercury. And cadmium has been an ingredient in solders too.
Hi Kurt, Thank you for posting such a thoughtful comment. The information that you shared is often overlooked when the subject of safety concerns is addressed. For our viewers who are reading the comments, it's important to remember that these concerns are applicable to some antique jewelry that was manufactured in the US and Europe. And.there has been Cadmium related recalls of jewelry as recent at 2010 in the US.
Thanks for your support! : )
Great video! Thank you. I hate fire scale. A teacher I had years ago used an acetylene & air torch which made a flame that did not create fire scale. I could not afford that set up at the time. Also did not know about boric acid and alcohol. I'll run over to the hardware store today and get those items. Damn that would have saved me a lot if work and a lot of silver I had to sand off! I'm going to try to create a non-oxidizing flame on my micro torch in the mean time and test it on some little bits of silver. Thanks again!
Hi Steven, Glad you enjoyed the video. But, fire scale is almost impossible to avoid. I've never heard of a soldering situation where there was no oxidizing of the metal. If metal is exposed to heat in an atmosphere where Oxygen is present, it's going to oxidize. There are a number of steps that you can take to reduce the oxidation of your metal. But, nothing is perfect. If you hate dealing with fire scale, you can always "frost" your pieces or get them plated. And the OJA has videos on both topics. Good luck with your creative pursuits.
Thanks for your support! : )
Being a bit of a science/chemistry guy, I looked into a safer alternative to boric acid and did some experiments tonight. When you add sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda) to boric acid, it becomes sodium borate-a more stable salt and less hazardous material also known as borax-a household product used in laundry detergents. Applying a solution of denatured alcohol and sodium borate to both copper and silver, then heating with my torch, I find it does just as good a job of inhibiting oxidation as boric acid. And, it doesn’t leave powdery residue everywhere. Under high heat, it will vitrify (turn glassy) but that’s easily removed in a pickle. Since it’s a safer material per MSDS, I’m using this instead. If you want to try it, get it in the grocery under the “20 Mule Team” brand.
Hi Kurt, Thanks for posting your very informative comment. I'm sure some of our subscribers will really appreciate the information. The product you mentioned is often used as a flux in direct casting. We mention this in a couple of our casting videos.
Thanks for your support! : )
Not that it really matters to anyone but myself, but I try to correct any bad info I put out there. Past my initial tests of borax as a firescale barrier for sterling silver--it actually does not work well in practice. Firstly, the borax expands under heat and moves the piece around--which can be a real problem when carefully positioning an item to solder. Borax either reacts with the silver or leaves areas exposed--it leaves some globs of cupric oxide (a red mineral) on the surface that actually dig into the surface and take aggressive polishing to remove. None of the above happens with boric acid.
@@kurtstory9466 A lot of chemicals jewelers use daily are extremely hazardous. You'd be surprised at some of the stuff that used to be used back in the day, such as the asbestos soldering pads, cadmium alloy solders, chemical oxide bombing (using cyanide), and the old gold plating solutions used cyanide as well. I have read about several jeweler deaths from cyanide poisoning when they didn't take enough precautions against these chemicals. I always too safety seriously whenever I did plating or soldering operations. There are now plating solutions without cyanide as well as cadmium-free solders. The cadmium-free solders don't flow nearly as well as the cadmium based ones, but that's something I can live with in order to not work with such a toxic metal.
The red stuff comes off in my pickle - which is hot vinegar... I work with silver and use borax with tap water, thinned to the consistency of skim milk. Too much white foam when you heat means not enough water. It’s much easier to place solder after the flux has melted. To keep elements from shifting, heat the piece very very gently until the water steams off, then go for it.
Boric acid works great. If you are using it on rings to retip for example, make sure the ring has been cleaned to remove dirt etc.
+Lenmil
Glad you endorse the use of the boric acid.
Thanks for watching! : )
As always, concise and useful information for metal working. :) I don't usually contribute to youtube channels, but I will on yours--it's been very helpful, thank you!
Hi Kurt, Thank you for both your financial support of the OJA and for your contribution to our ongoing dialog with viewers.
Thanks
You’re very welcome. Thanks for watching! 😀
This is also a great way to protect chain from melting or sticking to a jump ring, when you're soldering a jump ring closed. I guess for the same reason - it creates a sort of seal against the intensity of the heat.
I always get the boric acid on my fingers, though, and I wonder if that's terribly unhealthy - after all, isn't it used to kill insects?
+jaykay415 It is not terrible as long as you wash your hands after and before eating and avoid it touching an open wound or cut to be safe. :) Boric acid is fairly safe and has some interesting topical medical applications but I wouldn't want to inhale or ingest it.
+michal shalon thank you!
+jaykay415
It looks like you generated some healthy conversation (pun intended). I just want to add that it would be better to use yellow ocher to prevent solder from running where you don't want it.
Thanks for watching! : )
+OnlineJewelryAcademy Hi John, I do use yellow ochre for that, and sometimes Rio Chill Gel, depending on the application. But I've found the boric acid and denatured alcohol very effective with small chain. It's not stopping solder flow, in this case, but keeping the tiny links from fusing to each other and to the jump ring.
great information John I did not know this one
+Coleen Taylor
If you aren't sure if you have firescale on a piece, just reflect a white surface on the silver. If firescale is present it will show up as grey smudges on your piece.
Thanks for watching! : )
Thanks SOOO much, I'd been told to make a liquid mix and it just DIDN'T WORK (well)! The thick slurry is so much better! Yay!
+Gabby Flying Chef
Glad I could help you by just using a better description of consistency.
Thanks for being a loyal viewer! : )
+Gabby Flying Chef I've also been advised that you make a 50/50 mix - which is seriously runny and doesn't coat that well....might have to give this thick mix a go instead!
I use a mix of boric acid and water as flux to solder silver. If all the piece is hot , would the solder flow evenly as the surface is covered with Boric Acid?
The short answer is, yes it could. Now for the longer answer. The heat from your torch can be used to direct the flow of the solder. So long as you don't overheat the entire piece, the solder should only flow into seams due to capillary motion. That's when the very thin space between objects creates a natural pull on liquids. I hope this helps put your mind at ease.
Thanks for your support! : )
Does this slurry mix affect/contaminate your pickle?
No. It just dissolves into the solution.
Hi, wouod this work on brass? I notice when I work with brass it starts to look like copper after the fire... I have to scrub it off and sometimes it doesnt all come off. Thanks.
You need to watch another OJA video entitled “cleaning copper blush off of brass after soldering”. In short, a different pickle solution will correct the problem. 😀
what kind of alcohol? Isopropyl? Ethanol? Methanol? What percent of the alcohol can be used?
+Kit Ling S
You can purchase the Denatured Alcohol needed at any hardware store.
Thanks for watching! : )
Hello sir, silver anklets become completely black while soldering, when attaching a small bell like shape into it. Can we prevent that black fire stain. Does this method work for that too? Please reply sir
I don’t think that the anklets are silver. Attaching a small bell with a soldered jump ring should not turn the whole anklet black. But the information in the video should help you to inhibit firescale. 👽
Would you still need to flux before soldering?
+Connie McCormick
Yes. Solder or fuse with flux as you normally do.
Thanks for watching! : )
Ugh, I've had so many issues with firesale and since I am mostly a self taught silversmith, I never knew what it was! Thank you for this video! I will have to try this and see how it works for me. I have one question. Is the denatured alcohol necessary to make the slurry? Can I use water instead of denatured alcohol and obtain the same protective result? Thank you!
Hi Tina, There are lots of products on the market that do the same thing as the materials I demonstrated with in the video. I believe that some might be water based. You'd have to look at the product descriptions to be sure. I don't believe that the boric acid will adhere to the silver without using denatured alcohol. I've honestly never tried it that way. Try a quick experiment and see what happens. As a rule of thumb, get in and out with the heat as soon as possible. The less you expose your work to heat the less fire scale you'll build up on your work. Good luck!
Thanks for your support! : )
Distilled water works, alcohol may be more effective though. It does seem like there would be some reason many recommend alcohol. I would use grain alcohol though unless I knew for a fact that burning off the denatured was relatively safe or you have excellent ventilation.
Got to look up marrying metals now!
Married metals are beautiful. Just a heads up... You can't cut corners when you are fitting together a married metals project. All of the pieces have to fit together snugly. Good luck!
Thanks for your support! : )
If you get this stuff on the area you plan do solder, does it interfere with the soldering in any way? Do you need to clean it off that area before you solder? If you brush it on instead of dipping it, can you use the same brush you use for painting flux on? Thank you.
+salvagedsword
Thank you for your great questions. I hope people read the comments section and see this exchange.
It is bad to solder over fire scale. It should always be removed before you solder. It can cause the solder joint to break later when it is stressed. Brushing on the oxidation inhibitor won't be as uniform and effective as dipping your project into it. But, you can get away with doing it. I would recommend using separate brushes for various operations. Good luck with your projects!
Thanks for watching! : )
Salvagedsword I think your question was misunderstood. Were you asking about needing to remove the boric acid flux from your solder point before fluxing for your actual soldering ? The answer was warning against soldering over Fire Scale, not boric acid protection flux.
I too wonder if you need to clean the boric acid / alcohol flux off the exact spot where you are wanting to solder. My understanding is that the protective coating will not affect the normal soldering action so you can leave the coating on. OJA Please clarify if you will.
Mr Laff: Yes, I was wondering if the boric acid coating would impede the soldering in any way. I just went ahead and tested it out last year and found it doesn't interfere if you don't clean the boric acid off the exact area you plan on soldering. I also wanted to know if it was fine to mix it with regular flux and it's okay to do so. In fact, you can substitute the boric acid and alcohol mixture for your regular flux in a pinch.
I couldn’t find boric acid at the pharmacy. Apparently it’s not sold there anymore. So I went to Home Depot and found roach killer but it was orthoboric acid. Is it the same thing?
Yes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boric_acid
No such thing as "argentum" pal. Germanium is the word you seek and the ingredient in Argentium silver that keeps it from tarnishing and the lack of copper of course.
Thanks for the correction pal.
Jerk
Isn't there a danger that the boric acid would cause the solder to run all over the place?
+ThePillenwerfer Not if you do what he did and light it to burn off the alcohol. It looks like flux but it's not.You actually do still need flux. I've done this and it works beautifully. I would caution anyone to be careful not to light it or use a torch with the lid off of the jar though. If you should do that, DON'T PANIC. Simply place the lid on the jar to stop the fire.
+Dharlee Minter
Great comment Dharlee! I couldn't have said it better. : )
Or work with gold... gold does the exact same thing when heated up, unless its 24ct, but thats same for pure silver.
Actually, fire scale only develops on alloys that have a significant copper content.
Thanks for your support! : )
Ok, what is the difference between Borax and Boric Acid?
www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+difference+between+borax+and+boric+acid&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari 😀