Orisa is Fr*cking Dead: BIG Overwatch 2 Patch
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Do you guys smell burnt horse? The Overwatch 2 battle team just freaking destroyed Orisa, plus a massive nerf to Venture, PLUS a buff to the Damage Passive! Is this good? Is this bad? What does this mean for the ranked meta?
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Thanks for watching!
0:00 Intro
0:35 DPS Passive
4:35 Orisa Nerf
11:44 Venture Nerf
16:25 Overall Thoughts 
Игры
guys surely folks will see the thumbnail and assume mauga/roadhog are dead. right, chat? right?
3 some
Yeah, Genji is so dead
we gotta just start gaslighting the community that toxic heroes are throw picks
I hate to play orisa and into orisa but wtf i do when enemy team goes ana kiriko bastion reaper hog?
Now i will not be able to live on hog and orisa
What is your thoughts on heroes abilities having a global Cool down or a shared cool down.
Example a hero with a total of 4 to 5 key stroke abilities/actions, two of the 4/5 could share a cool down. Which locks an ability out. So you have to make a choice do I use ability A or B. Which is similar to Moira's heal / dmg orb. The abilities don't have to be similar in use but have a reason to use one over other in a moment.
Orisa fortify or a dps boost. So you can be aggressively offensive, defensively offensive, aggressively defensive or even defensively defensive. Last part .y sense in my head haha
There's a simple rule for low skill players -
If an enemy moves behind your front line, they do not exist.
As such, venture is entirely overpowered in low ranks where they can terrorize supports without any peeling
^ exactly. It’s crazy we balance around skill issues at lower levels. Venture is no different than sombra at lower elos nobody peels and acts like it’s a balance issue when their supports can’t 1v1 a dps.
@@kobejo439 To be honest venture is like a cross between reaper AND sombra. They've got range like sombra, but _two_ escapes like reaper, and _unlike_ reaper, BOTH escapes are good.
I do get tired of them releasing heroes that are essentially just better versions of existing heroes. Now this is _arguable_ but I'd say soldier is just plain weaker than sojourn, and most people probably agree. Mauga is _or at least was_ basically just hog, but better.
That's not to say I don't like venture, but I think with them in the game now, reaper could use a tweak or two.
@@kobejo439 Game should be balanced around the highest level while providing fixes for QOL improvements. This is why starcraft 1 and 2 have lasted so long.
I can dig that
@@kobejo439 How can you start by saying "exactly", and then come away with a totally different (and appalling) take?
"You can't balance around skill issues at lower levels."
Yes, you absolutely can and must lol. You can't have any hero be OP at any skill level, or the game is ruined for that skill level. If that means nerfing said hero so that they're unplayable at other skill levels, then that is ALWAYS the lesser evil. If a hero sucks, you can just not pick them and it's just not that big of a deal. If a hero is OP, the game is ruined.
What a terrible terrible take.
Wonder how long DPS queues will get before Blizzard starts paying attention to the tanking experience.
Well based on OW1 it's going to have to get a lot worse before they do anything
It's what they want
In my games before this patch support queues are actually slower than dps most of the time
They'll just remove tank all together
The tank problem has been ignored for way too long but Alec Dawson recently said that something is planned for tanks in the mid season patch
True words. Orisa is NOT as badly designed as mauga/roadhog. The reason she's cancer is she has basically no downtime on her stuff. The three abilities she has are mechanically interesting (uhhhh assuming they do some offensive buff for fortify like you said) and i think she can DEFINETLY be tuned to a healthy more dynamic state without completely reworking an ability.
Idk. If a roadhog fucks up alot. He will get blown up. If an orisa fucks up alot. They just keep walking away.
Maybe, but I still feel like the ult is just not fun and I'd prefer something more interesting, ideally something with a little mobility like queen's ult.
She has too much ability. I'd rework her in to ground brawl version of Dva. Make the spin similar to dm but remove fortify altogether.
''The three abilities she has are mechanically interesting'' fortify is mechanically interesting?? half or more of mauga or hog's kit is more interesting than that lololol
Honestly she has the baseline survivability that all tanks should have. The bigger problem is that all the other tanks can be blown up in less than 1 server tick, and it happens very often. The design debt of the OW2 team has come home to roost. Half assing it for 2 years just isn't cutting it.
I love that Spilo stuck up his ring fingers instead of middle fingers lol
It’s like the physical version of “frick you” lol
Venture has what I like to call the 'reaper" problem. If Venture comes in and your team doesn't focus them down they start getting pick offs. The individual skills of supports at the mid to low level is not enough to 'out play' the character. Same thing happens with reaper. They are not equivalent to like a tracer or sombra because the aim on Reaper/venture is more forgiving and Reapture has just more sustain with sheild generation than a ground suzu or nade can provide.
Honestly Sombra has a similar problem. Low ranks have an awareness problem. With Venture/Reaper it's the lack of focus fire. With Sombra it's that players forget she exists. She can get really close pretty safely, negating the aim requirement.
Reaper is way easier to deny space to though. Characters like Lucio or Brig can actually contest space pushed or held by reaper. Venture is essentially an instant death if you even let them near you. Lucio boop doesn't contest drill dash and brig cannot keep venture from getting on top of them. They exist and can keep you out of important space. Very similar to mauga, mercy res, widow, and hog hook. Heros who have damage or abiltiy that makes you play dramatically different around them when they're not being used. But at least with hook you can track the cooldown and have big windows to contest him.
@@secretlyaslug2325 perfectly nailed it. Venture is like the Widow of close range characters
at least with reaper your health gain is proportional to damage dealt. venture gains shields just by pressing buttons, so even if you do no damage you can escape because of shields you gain from using abilities. Reaper's effective range is also smaller than venture, which can make it so difficult to do anything on some maps.
Venture is literally a pseudo tank character in a way, cause they demand so much space. I couldn't play echo at all into venture because either they were protecting their supports at all times or trying to flank, both scenarios would end up with me being face to face with them (auto lose for echo). So i started playing more of a poke style echo because of this, and while this worked against venture, there are 2 dps heroes in every team, and the second dps is usually a hitscan who, after the s9 changes, have a very easy time killing me if i'm trying to poke from range. Thankfully echo isn't the only hero i play so i can find a way around all this, but it frustrates me sometimes.
I understand that venture isn't as good in high ranks, but that's the thing: low and high elo are completely different games. Like in tekken where your gameplan has to constantly change depending on your rank, some ranks have people spamming throws more so you have to practice throw breaks to get out of there, while higher up you don't see them used that often... lower ranks will use strings more typically, that have a punish window you need to recognize while the top ranks are mostly cancelling strings early and playing it safe etc. In ow2, you could say that there are some of these "filters" to go through before you get to high elo, like venture, pharmercy (not as prevalent now imo), all the illios hogs, junkrats (rip junk s1-s9), tracer/sombra duos, your team not being able to agree on what to do with zarya bubbles so now you collectively get melted... yeah
So interesting to hear you say how these nerfs seem weird in a vacuum, when as a Silver player I thought it was actually spot-on with helping my daily experience playing against Orisa and Venture. They definitely looked out for the lower elos on this one. A bit of a blind spot for Spilo, it seems.
I think honestly one of the big issues with Overwatch is that there is such a massive divide between low and high rank players, and that’s honestly not something that can be fixed.
The barrier to entry for Overwatch is made incredibly low by certain characters, and so for low ranks, they see success without having to learn any fundamentals, and because that’s just the ecosystem there, it sort of traps them in a cycle of not being able to learn the fundamentals because nobody there uses them anyway.
i saw those changes and was like well she'll be nigh unplayable but fuck it, her time to suffer
Facts she has been relevant for too long
still playing her past the patch instead of cancer and getting to live forever now you still do great damage and have to manager your cooldowns better and positioning is more important, it was coming and we all knew it. but nerfing her into the ground i dont think is accurate
One thing I think about venture is that they haven’t been out enough. Everyone says “they aren’t oppressive at the higher ranks” well they’ve been out for what, a month. The player base hasn’t really reached the skill ceiling with this character. Kinda like doom it takes so much knowledge to be good with them and as time goes on I’m sure people are gonna see how absolutely busted venture is
She
@@lightningmtaylor Canonically they. Character isn't even confirmed afab so you're literally making shit up.
@@lightningmtaylor they literally aren't she. someone got a political icicle deep in their bumbumb i see.
Venture DEFINITELY terrorizing lower ELO. Gold games have venture in every single game
Yup! Don't know why they felt the need to give dig dug immunity under ground, a boop with underground dash, shields when coming out and an explosive projectile or the dive charge melee combo that does the same that everyone complained about with the Roadhog 2 tap combo.
@@dondavi5798Skill issue
@@doktordaxter I hear ya twitch kid
@@doktordaxtervery true, self proclaimed venture mains are now gonna have to work for it.
*sigh* Here comes the Hogau met- DPS passive buffed? Oh shit.
The fact that Orisa is such a bully character *in addition* to being easy to pick up is not inherently bad, but should be a niche pick to take down the carry of the lobby and not be meta. She should be like Moira in that sense - pick it up to learn the role, learn what works better in what cases, be the "do your job and stay alive" character.
I do love what you said about making Fortify an offensive or defensive choice, the idea to attach no falloff dmg to Fortify is something I'd love, cause I hate that she gets it inherently. I'd keep the slow, since Javelin Spin gives her a speed buff and activating both would cancel out (not saying you should use both at the same time, but it'd be a super niche thing to do)
Making fortify turn her bullets hitscan would be interesting
I think fortify is already a visually confusing ability and making her bullet have no fall off while it not being showcase would make it even more confusing. Plus you generally want to fortify when you are closer and therefore more vulnerable to the enemy team, and buffing her range during that would very rarely matter.
I just think that they should get rid of this ability altogether, it no longer makes sens on such a range oriented kit and it's just a conceptually boring, visually boring ans confusing ability that is the last thing they should have kept from her old kit. She already has a good defensive cool-down in spin and enough range and health to be safe from dying, fortify just promote bad plays on her making low elo think she can run in and 1v5 being unkillable, while it uses an ability spot that high elo would want as a way to apply more pressure and no be as worthless as she is when the opponent plays around her.
As for her being stuck as a noob "do your job and don't die" just like for Moira we could do much better than that while still keeping her accessible. If she was less overtuned and actually had a cooldown like her old pull that would allow her to make plays, she could still be easy to keep up while having aspects of her kit that would need nuance and understanding to play her at her best.
I digress but I personally think Moira doesn't have the lowest skill ceiling of the cast, sure she doesn't need much if any mechanical skill but she at least has the mobility to have a lot of possibilities in the position she could take and has somewhat nuanced decision making it the way to use her orbs and generally work out how to manage her healing and damage as mutually exclusive ressources. Don't get me wrong it's not rocket science and she's still the lower ceiling support, but compared to Orisa, Roadhog or Torbjorn that are just point and click heroes with zero important decisions to take in the game or mobility to quickly take important positioning, there is just nothing to expand on them beside learning the basic of their kit, aka spam and not die.
I think that Moira could become a more interesting hero without making her aim intensive, by making her ressource management matter more and be more nuanced. For example I think making her healing grasp single target and giving it a damage boost effect (limited by the healing ressource she needs to recharge), you'd instantly have more decision making to make and give her more or a reason to stick with her team rather than living her own adventure in the enemy backline. Plus it's just a much more interesting take on the damage boost concept as mercy is as it would be limited in range, tied to a limited ressource and the choice between doing more damage by yourself or give a significant boost to your ally at the expense of a meter is more nuanced than "do I heal my weakened teammate or buff their damage". I'd imagine it would only work if her healing gauge is fully charge, which would give her a difficult choice to make between charging the ressource to full to get the damage boost or heal her teammates and not risk them dying, as well as giving the oponent more counterplays. Bonus point for not synergising well at all with pharah and echo
When I think of Fortify just as a word, I think of a defensive stronghold like a fort or castle, I think of big tall stone walls but also heavy artillery like cannons and stuff. Perhaps a fun way to give her Fortify another more offensive use is to make it so during it's duration, all 3 sections of her gun fire at once like a cannon- briefly charging up before firing a bigger, faster, more damaging projectile and maybe even dealing a bit of knockback with satisfying blast vfx and sfx, also comboing very nicely with a well-placed javelin wall pin. It needs to feel really good and satisfying to use offensively (hence it being this pseudo-rework over just a passive fire rate/damage increase or heat buildup reduction that can be a bit harder to notice) to encourage people to use it to make plays instead of just as a panic button.
I think finding a way to make Fortify work with the movement speed reduction would be thematically cool too, making it more about fortifying a position, forcing you to get into position first or saving Javelin Spin to do so and using the tankiness of Fortify to withstand pressure while blasting people, or using it just to survive as is right now. I also agree that headshots/crits should be enabled during Fortify, with whatever changes would be necessary to balance that out.
On that note, make them spend fortify duration to shoot, and make those shots strong enough to be worth it. Not only would it exaggerate the decisionmaking of using it for defense/damage but it'd give some tension and excitement to the player, who doesn't want to waste empowered shots.
That chatter came in perfectly as soon as Spilo said the last patch note; “clown patch honk honk” 😂😂😂
Venture nerf was needed for metal ranks. She was going absolutely rampant on my elo.
Edit: For context, I usually am somewhere between Gold 1 and Plat 3.
Her entry skill level is incredibly low, so you frequently had Ventures destroying the entire backline all by themselves and nobody was capable of stopping her because she just jumps around like crazy, oneshots people within a second or two and then gets tf out with 5 secs invulnerability. Since we are not good enough to properly counter her, the best solution was to have a Venture in your team too and pray that she performs better than enemy Venture.
Can confirm they always run rampant when playing QP pubs with friends.
Also can confirm, high plat/low diamond here. Venture players have been dominating nearly every match.
I’m just glad I’m not going to get drill dashed every game, that ability is broken
I think a lot of high rank players aren't seeing how much basically free value she gets in lower ranks. She's like Orisa, Moira, Sombra, and Reaper. Even when they are borderline unplayable in top 500, they can dominate lower ranks simply because of how easy their kits are to use. Venture's skill floor is insanely low.
@@Chr0n0s38 Exactly. It's insane to me that no one talks about their drill dash. The distance that it takes them is WAY too far. Not to mention that it locks the enemy out of movement for the entire duration of the dash. Super infuriating to play against. I started just running away from them as soon as I see the rocks, seems to have helped a bit.
venture is deff gonna get the dps doom treatment where they are good at destroying bad players so blizzard just nerfs them into the ground and they become a troll pick that only like 3 people are cracked at
Ball rn
@@alanthurston7904 since when ball ever terrorised low elo in OW2
I would like to point out that it's also very important that abilities have downsides. If an ability does not have a downside, then you do not have to choose *when* you use it. It is always advantageous to use it, so you simply use it off cooldown. There is no decision-making involved in deciding to use it. This is why downsides to abilities increases the depth of the character.
Not sure about this take. I feel like the more common factor is opportunity cost. Winston's bubble, for example. If I use it now, I won't have it later. Is it worth using now or later? Do I want to be proactive or reactive (making space vs protecting teammates or yourself)? Having different uses for the same ability helps create that opportunity cost.
Can you more clearly define what you mean by downsides?
@@abudgie6909 By giving abilities downsides, I mean tuning them so that they don't automatically give value. Getting positive value from them requires some execution or setup or skill. I think this is healthy for games, because it leads to greater player reward, greater player decision-making, and overall a less spammy gameplay style.
Note I'm not disagreeing with you or Spilo, I'm just saying that downsides are helpful in addition to what you're both saying.
@@P-39_Airacobra yeah I feel like we're on the same page here
That dono at 12:30 was hilarious lmao
I like the idea that fortify would also make your bullets gold, but idk what gold bullets would do. Maybe they arc and are effected by gravity but do more damage, maybe they inflict a status effect, idk. Just please make fortify less cringe.
They should just bring back being able to headshot Orisa in fortify. Prevents needing to keep playing this numbers game when balancing the ability
That sounds great
Orisa gun overheats faster while fortified. Trade dps for sustain
I mean immediately my thoughts on gold bullets would be that they would be "unstoppable" just like orisa, implying that they would do things like pierce and go through DM/deflect, etc. Main issue with this is just that it might not be very fun?
@@nifdoowo maybe they could pierce people? Exploding or bouncing bullets might also be fun?
venture had something close to a one shot, that is the main reason those damage nerfs were made, so essentially changing breakpoints for oneshot combos on tracer and 250hp heros. That was what made her opressive in lower ranks, similar to junkrat before. If needed buff other aspects of her kit not the damage.
They need to fix her drill dash as well
Venture is non-binary
Don't you mean them? Not her?
@@abudgie6909 😂
@@sr_aron if you want venture to not be non-binary so badly, why call them "she"? Why isn't venture a "he"? Can you justify that?
I feel like the orisa changes are similar to the roadhog nerfs from early last year. Alec said that orisa is due for a look at how she feels to play against, so this is probably just toning her down while they work on that.
Unfortunately the hog rework did nothing except make him more annoying. Hope they don't do the same to the horse.
What is your thoughts on heroes abilities having a global Cool down or a shared cool down.
Example a hero with a total of 4 to 5 key stroke abilities/actions, two of the 4/5 could share a cool down. Which locks an ability out. So you have to make a choice do I use ability A or B. Which is similar to Moira's heal / dmg orb. The abilities don't have to be similar in use but have a reason to use one over other in a moment.
Orisa fortify or a dps boost. So you can be aggressively offensive, defensively offensive, aggressively defensive or even defensively defensive. Last part .y sense in my head haha
The Orisa nerfs were way too much IMO. Combined with the increased DPS passive, she's literally unplayable now. Now I cant get through a game without playing against a Hog since Hog's greatest counter is dead.
Womp womp low skill hero low should be low value
Mauga works as a hog counter for me
Tbh with Orisa Mauga and Hog being in the “unkillable frontline” category and Ball and Doomfist being in the “stupidly oppressive if you have no CC” category, less than half of the tanks are actually fun to play against lmao
i would still pick orisa on illios well, because if you block hooks (you have 2 abilities for this), the hog will lose the last 2 remaining brain cells because his win condition, to hook off the tank, is not working. Unfortunately with the cooldown/duration nerfs on fortify and spin, it's harder to do this so idk maybe your best bet would be sigma, just keep your shield alive at all times and if it's broken don't peek the hog. On maps without cheese potential in environmental kills, i would pick sigma still. Mauga probably works but i have a total of 3 minutes of mauga playtime so i don't trust myself with this, even though in theory all you have to do is hold both mouse buttons and unload all the bullets into hog.
I never thought Venture was broken but it is kind of crazy how fast/easy they can delete people sometimes tho. They have more burst AND more mobility than maybe every other hero in the game? Maybe bastion has more burst, not even sure if that's true. Maybe Doom has comparable mobility but he's a tank who not designed to one shot people. But like any other dive hero, with proper positioning and/or coordination it's not the biggest deal. They are still kinda pesky but so is every other diver/flanker.
The one thing I didn't like about Venture is the one shot combo. I mean its not a problem in and of itself but the fact they just gutted all characters that had some kind of one shot or one shot combo and buffed all characters hp so people wouldn't get deleted 100-0 like that, and then just add a new power creep hero that does what they just finished removing from every single ow1 character... just rub me the wrong way. I wouldn't mind it so much if chars like Hanzo and Junkrat didn't just lose their one shots but its wild to spend the last two years removing one shots from the game then just give the new hero it anyway
the real problem with Overwatch 2 is that the game has been defined by basically a singular meta tank every season. And for whatever reason, it's mostly been Orisa.
Unfortunately i saw the venture nerfs coming and i doubt they would buff them again. Heroes like this are noob stompers, so they can't be good or lower ranks will suffer against them. I just wish they went with an adjustment instead of a straight up nerf. Like sure nerf drill dash to 85 even but reduce the CD to 6 and don't touch the primary. 80 is perfect imo
Ghost pepper take!
They’ll broad stroke buff/help tanks soon.
-thumb down the survivability ‘go to’ tank, and crank the dps passive again.
- reassess the damage caused
-hotfix tanks across the board
Spilo, what do you think of crit damage multiplier on tanks? Like capping the multiplier for the crit damage to 1.2 maybe for tanks (not the multiplier for the damage they deal, but the damage they receive)
fortify should reset the heat level of her gun and keep it at 0 until its over; so u can use it as a poking tool of continuous fire maybe
I hover plat/diamond on support and around there I see venture not be super oppressive but on tank which im currently in gold in rn I see my entire team get solo wiped by venture almost every game that we play against one without having one ourself. Venture is very much a turn your brain off and roll hero when people don’t know how to check them
What i find really interesting between hog, mauga, and ana is that ana's balance is what dictates whether or not hog and mauga are strong. Like how her nano basically gatekeeps nanoblade balancing
One good thing about Orisa - she doesn't have self-healing abilities... For me tanks having self-healing is just counter intuitive for their whole design. It must be really subtle like through regenerating shields, even Junker Queen's self-healing I don't really like tbh. She totally would not have it in 2 tanks combo.
My take on a fortify change/rework:
Fortify becomes 4 secs, but every bullet fired decreases it by 0.1 sec
These bullets are golden and do increased damage, are faster and headshots replenish fortify by 0.05 sec.
I think fortify is an insanely strong ability and I’m pretty happy with some sort of speed reduction. No crits, no status effects, dmg reduction, less gun heat, on a relatively short cd, especially considering you can cycle your other cd’s to basically still be invincible while waiting.
I think if Blizzard would consider the balance triangle (tough, fast, strong) more, then balance would be a lot better. She’s “balanced” in terms of win rate I guess but it never felt good. She feels unkillable or useless. This way you can add in strength, while still giving enemies opportunities to capitalize.
I’m mixed on the shorter duration. On one hand it’s means you’re slower for a shorter time and it forces you to use it more tactically in response to things instead hurr me gold all time.
On the other hand longer duration sort of makes her a slow fortress where yes you may be slower but you better be able to kill me before I get in your face.
But unfortunately many comp games have players obsessed with feeling individually good and the company caters to it over time. Leading to mobility creep, and now ANY slow, or character without movement, has to have huge advantages to compensate.
Can't believe we got a whole patch for a couple of changes. 3rd patch in the past 3 weeks. I wish they'd give notice or something, because all replays and highlights get wiped from the servers each patch.
The last 4-5 weeks of last season they didn't release a single patch. That was nice. Surely they could figure out a way to make in-game changes without sending out an update for small stuff like this.
2:50 I don't like any of them, but at least ults charge fast around Mauga and hog, so it's more chaotic and fun.
I think you're wrong when you said you don't think you have to nerf an ability in order to buff it. I think in some situations that true, like when they recently buffed Queen's axe to be as proportionally threatening as it was pre season 9, that's fine. However, when the reward start outweighing the risk then you have to have stuff like cooldown nerfs, or power nerfs. I think giving abilities more freedom of expression is an avenue of approach when it comes to abilities that is certainly awesome, but when you have a character like Doomfist, who has tons of expression, you have to start giving him buffs with his nerfs so he's not broken.
What app do you use to draw on the screen? ive always been curious
nvm, i just found it. its called "Epic Pen" if anyone else is wondering
Venture Doom Tracer is absolutely running rampart in all ranks up to plat. Even for me in Masters I see her A LOT.
Even outside competitive, this team comp (often with sombra and Lucio) is running quickplay. So many rage quitters because you can't counter the entire team comp because there aren't that many counters in the first place
@@SM4SHaZ yeah this comp is unbearable to play against, especially in an uncoordinated team. I duo q quickplay with my just casual gamer friend and it's literally impossible to win against if the enemy has some sort of coordination. And I'm an Ana, Bap, Zen main which makes it even more painful. Honestly the least amount of fun I've probably ever had in OW lol
@@tiziankempe4890 tracer is played by half the dps playerbase at this point and sadly even if the tracer isn't very good the annoyance factor and distraction alone is insane value already. Not to mention that you can just hit 1 bullet on a tank and get easy value for no risk with the dps passive. tracer/venture or tracer/sombra are the banes of my existence, unless i'm playing dps, then since i play a lot of echo, one of the dps will remember that hitscans are a thing. No fun allowed i guess.
@@prismaticpaul yeah counterpicking is honestly just so toxic for the game. I get that in League entire matches get decided by counterpicking but at least it's a single time you can do so. In OW it's a constant swapping which is really annoying. It forces you to not play the heros you are best at/enjoy most if you want to have a higher chance of winning. Every time I win a single teamfight on Echo or Tracer you can bet there's going to be at least 2 if not 3 or 4 counterpicks
I feel like im going insane. Im a gold support player and ive basically never been terrorized by a venture. It's almost impossible to play Zen into them, but ive had plenty of luck poking them out on Bap, Lucio, and Kiri, but if i can't handle them on any of those characters i just swap Moira and go full backline defense. Metal rank ventures basically get hard countered by you paying attention to them.
^ this. They’re basically a sombra or reaper the counter play is awareness and focusing their push.. this is a concept lower elo players will never understand if we just nerf every flanker and let shitscan dominate endlessly
Venture is just an awareness check
moira works wonders, the problem is i don't wanna play moira 24/7, i wanna play ana and zen but alas i cannot, so i stopped queuing support
Okay crazy thought. If you were not allowed to swap and had to choose your character solely based on map at the beginning do you tho my his would solve the “tank issue?” I don’t see how you can fix counter swapping with a game that rewards heroes with different abilities.
I think the point about dual-use cooldowns is exactly what they tried to do with Orisa's overheat mechanic. Do you use fortify to survive, or do you use it to reset the overheat and chase down a kill? It's just a shame that the overheat rarely matters when playing Orisa.
I would maybe look into reducing Orisa's fire-rate as she approaches high-overheat, so that players incentivized into managing their overheat and maybe using fortify for tempo instead of just sustain.
orisa fortify rework idea, put it on a meter, but when active orisa takes like 70-80% less healing, so if its used its for a good reason (block incoming cc, or big burst of damage)
FIRE INTRO
Nice.. So I won't have to keep swapping tank now right.... ?
I'm here for the thumbnail, Huckleberry.
the venture nerfs were wholly unjustified imo, they were destroying metal ranks, but only because they're designed in a fashion that makes them intuitive to play so people are good with them already, think launch Sojourn is she wasn't broken, because Sojourn is an intuitive character to play, you pick em up, and you understand each ability and how they can flow into each other, just like Vantage. I think it's terrible of the devs to nerf em so soon personally, but at least the character isn't dead per say
How can anyone think dropping fortify time, and raising spin cooldown, wasn't enough??
Why would anyone need to drop the fortify movespeed, too!
as a hog one trick, i like the healing nerf. i dont like overwatch turning in to "the game i play to shut my brain off" so just having to take a little more cover makes the game a little more intense
The era of the gold bulldozer is no more thank god
hot take: get rid of fortify completely. give javelin spin two charges
great idea but then doom mains would have one less thing to complain about and we can't allow that of course
Queue times for tanks has increased in platinum after these changes.
" apocalypse ain't over" heheheheheheh
Honestly, I dont think that giving fortify offensive capabilities is going to go well in metal ranks.
Sure with dps passive, horse is managable, but if you give her the ability to be stronger while fortify is up it seems like it would just be more enabling for horse metas rather than anything else.
Obviously you need to balance adding that with some nerfs. For example, letting orisa get headshot during fortify would help a ton. Adding a new mechanic to a hero requires some compensation: the point isn't to make orisa stronger, so we wouldn't do that.
Isn't fortify versus spin the choice? Isn't make the play or fortify a choice? I don't understand why cooldowns shouldn't have a downside.
what if they just reduced all heals by 20% instead of attaching it to DPS. Like a support shooting at a mercy pocket will have a big disadvantage and for what?
The way it is allows for that high sustain game to creep back in sometimes. Like in a 4v4 situation where one team's surviving DPS is something like hanzo while the other team's is tracer. Supports can circlejerk each other as long as they stay away from hanzo, but tracer's team can lower heals on anyone they want basically.
reddit lucio has a lot more meaning now
Fortify should completely reset the overheat on her gun and she should be able to be headshot. Keep movement but reduce duration to 3 👍
Finally! my opinion for the patch is in
Basically "imagine fortify was nemesis form"
I like that Orisa got nerfed but these nerf suck like gameplay wise. They feel like crap to play as and they removed mobility from her kit with both changes since spear spin was her only mobility and they increased that cooldown.
Not every hero should have mobility
She's a easy brawl tank that can poke she shouldn't have Mobilty. She has CC immunity and some of the highest sustain while being easy to play. If you want mobility pick a dive tank or a more skilled tank like queen with shout
It would be good if orisa had more decision making. Increasing her mobility is a fine way to do that.
@@abudgie6909 Exactly. Everyone keeps saying “but she isn’t a mobility tank idiot” but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t improve the hero if you give them some.
@aSuperPi. If you do this you need to cut down her sustain then. Lower dmg reduction on fortify or make it possible to headshot
LETSSSSS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Actually relevant balance changes for once?
they could have reduced her jav spin to 8s and doom/winston/ram take over pro play
is that shaggy spilo i see
Venture in low ranks were deleting characters with no counter play
Why does the dash lock you into place? No idea why
There’s counterplay it’s just like you said low ranks and at low ranks nobody counter plays anything except the tank if theres someone in your backline they don’t exist there’s 0 peel
@@kobejo439 yeah. I legit watched a widow get spawned camped. I walked out to protect her and got deleted
@@kobejo439too true but nobody talks about how In high ranks there’s almost 0 counter play to widow yet venture is the character they need to nerf
I don’t think ur orisa being less cancer than mauga and hog take is that hot, the other 2 just have more bs that is even more annoying to deal with
Yall complaining about the "dps passive" when cauterize has been a thing for years in paladins.
Why do you think nobody plays paladins?
@ironman1458 I play it daily, so does my wife and best friend. We enjoy it plenty 🤷♂️
@@BrambleJamgross paladins play a real game like tf2
@rav_productions2136 they dont have that on console my guy 🤷♂️
Honestly i would prefer to have 25% dmg reduction to self heal on hog with a third mlre self heal than what he has now
Venture has only been out for a couple weeks yet is all over the top leaderboards. 6 out of 10 in Asia and 4/10 in NA
There’s not a single console player on na in the top 200 playing venture 😭
SPILO IS COOKING! This is the best thing to of happened - A Ball Player
Now’s the perfect time to give Orisa mobility with a hanzo leap 😁 or a doom slam
Venture is really cheezy and easy but has obvious limitations. I don't play sup though. She is probably extremely annoying against sups as they can't kill her and Venture can just burrow near them for free and then decide rather burst kill or getaway with dash. It doesn't bother other roles much except maybe small maps.
It’s all about peel. Why should a support win a 1v1 with a dps? They shouldn’t you’re supposed to peel venture is no different than a sombra or tracer decimating your backline if you leave them unchecked they will dominate. The counterplay is awareness, callouts, and peel. Like it is for any flanker.
@@kobejo439 not like any other flanker. venture is ez and cheezy. similar to reworked sombra. low skill floor.
W tombstone thumbnail
I don't like how the DPS buff just makes some tanks straight up unplayable.
Nice intro 😂
Mauga got nerfed so quickly? They left him OP all over the Christmas period.
Ironically Orisa was my (metal-rank) counter to Mauga so ironically the most horrible tanks are even more horrible now lol.
the dps passive makes playing ana feel miserable, she only heals 60 per shot. she doesn't heal enough to be useful or do damage enough to be useful. like at that point i'd might as well play bap. im not saying they shouldn't have made this change, its just that it realy screws over ana in a way i don't think they realize
edit: i read the dev blog, yeah this game is doomed
as a yugioh player your comment is normal for me and it sucks that its true
Also… for me, dva/winston/zarya/rein are the most healthy tanks there is. They clearly have their weaknesses, but, depending on the map or your teammates, you can make them work, even with their common “counterpicks”. Mauga/Hog/Orisa pre nerf and to an extent, Sigma (depending on the map) they just don’t fucking die and do too much.
Fuck Wrecking Ball. No one wants a Wrecking Ball meta.
Queen had her time, I think she’s just not good enough right now. She’s a worst zarya imo. Maybe if they increased her health a little bit more, like 50. Or gave her a tiny bit of armor taking out from her health she could potentially see more play.
Forgot about doomfist. Doom WHO? Kidding. Doom is good right now.
I don't think dva is that great at the moment. She's still fair and balanced, but her playstyle doesn't fit that well into 5v5. Matrix feels really bad to play against with its current duration.
Sig is ok imo, it’s quite a nice situational pick on maps like Havana and Circuit, and Queen is fun to play with and against, at least imo, especially as part of a coordinated rush comp
It’s a shame that near enough half of the tanks are just awful to play into though
I will never understand the DPS role passive.
It should be 20% just for mauga and hog. Lol
nice intro
Orisa was meta since the start of double shield until this week, she deserves to be taken out of the game entirely for 4 months.
Nah, I think your Orisa take is flawed. Your fortify suggestion will not be a cooldown that makes you choose, it will be a 'do it all cooldown' which is a worse design than just a defensive cooldown. E.g., if you have a ticket that is give you speed, damage, headshot and cc immunity and damage reduction, then the cooldown should be long-ish but then it also means it will not be used just for speed because then it would be sub-optimal. The reason Ana nade involves choice is because most often you won't be landing on your team and the enemy but if both your team and the enemy are clumped up, then there is no choice, that's just the best way to use it.
as a yugioh TCG/MD player not having every character viable is normal for me.And the balance is very normal also 😂
EDIT:the more characters they add the more the game becomes unbalanced and lets be honest overwatch 2 will never be balanced becuase of certian abilities and number buffing
Dont forget yugioh dosnt lock you to only having one card type only 3 unless its on the banlists, imagine only being able 1 copy of each trap, or spell, or monsters. Every card of one of those types in the game is limited. This is what overwatch is like right now in 5v5.
@@202adr yea pretty much who ever has got the big numbers or the most obnoxious/powerfull abilities becomes meta.And the more they add the more unbalanced it becomes and honestly overwatch 2 should bring a pick&choose ban system to give blizzard data on who has the highet pickrate and why
They were so aggressive on the nerfs that I guarantee they will revert 2 out of 3 by midseason patch.
There’s no sample size relevant here. Venture was just released for Christ sake. Any data at this point is diluted by the natural ignorance that comes with a new hero. The real issue that’s actually effecting other games like Dead by Daylight is a phenomenon that low skill players/casuals of a community (the majority) create a large entity on social media putting fulcrum choke levels of pressure on devs considering a big chunk of devs exposure these days is on these websites. Something to consider.
Just let Orisa mains figure it out, I swear OW players ask for something and then complain when they get it.
Venture is in probably 75-80 percent of silver gold games. And 9 games out of 10 my team doesn’t stand a chance unless A. I am on Cassidy or B. We have a better Venture.
thumbnail looks like yeatle
or yeatle looks like the thumbnail
Ana need some love
Orisa is very low skill. But her Javolin is like the ultimate cool down. Bc she can single handly make it almost for any 1 hero to play. She can cancel it seems anyone's ult just by hitting them with it.
So far Mauga/hog players have been destroying
Now all they gotta do is put hog mauga in the blender and we good 👍
P.s for the record I mean without the dps role passive because there ain’t no way that sticks
100% hate playing with mauga or hog
Almost nothing changed with her
Venture was ANNIHILATING metal ranks backlines
Put headphones on, pick Kiri/Moira to escape and live her dive, make her attack the rest of your team, help them kill her, no longer a 1v1
Tbh in my games still a lot of orisa 😂
truing so hard when you said orisa > mauga/hog
Orisa meta made me hard grind Zarya, and thanks to that I hit Top 500 for the first time yesterday at rank #109 so for her I shall always be a bit grateful
My last comment I promise: remove the fucking lifesteal aura from mauga, giving it only to him, reduce his ult uptime by one second and he will still be playable but not a jack of all trades. Make him weak to dive tanks at least. He is already the king of brawl.