What Is Going On With These Duplicate Cars?
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
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Sources:
www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt7/n...
www.gtplanet.net/forum/thread...
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www.hotcars.com/15-most-expen...
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www.thegamer.com/gran-turismo...
www.gtplanet.net/gt-sport-142...
0:00 Introduction
2:10 Duplicates Throughout the History of GT
9:56 Duplicates in ‘Modern’ GT
11:52 The Positives of Duplicates
13:12 The Negatives of Duplicates
15:35 What Even is a Duplicate in GT7?
23:45 My Verdict on Duplicate Cars in GT7 
Игры
Hey guys, I just want to clarify something I mentioned in the video since I didn’t fully explain my stance:
It’s true that I believe Polyphony’s process for making duplicates like the GT-R NISMO is closer to making an original car than most would otherwise expect, but that’s not to say it would be exactly the same. If you compare the NISMO and the V-Spec II side-by-side they are 95% identical but you will notice quite a few small details between the two.
My idea is that PD would find it simpler to just start from fresh rather than try and adapt the existing model into the NISMO, something that they could’ve easily done in the older titles, but given the extreme levels of details now present in these models, they would no longer be willing to comprise if it meant even the smallest reduction in accuracy.
Although I do think it’s likely that they reuse some smaller parts, such as headlights, which wouldn’t be too difficult to integrate into a new model as sort of ‘plug-and-play’ solution (provided they are identical between each version of the car). In this sense, the overall production time would be close to an original model, but still slightly less.
Even still there will be exceptions - from what I can tell the Roadster NR-A we got back in October is absolutely identical to the 2015 Roadster with the exception of the seats, the roll cage, and maybe a few other things in the interior. In this case I do think it’s highly unlikely they built it from scratch (unless there are people with sharper eyes than mine who can spot more differences).
As I said in the video defining what counts as a “duplicate” isn’t an exact science and there is certainly room for interpretation. Personally, if it were up to me, I would make it so the total number of ‘unique’ cars, and total number of cars including variants, were separate stats to make this clearer. Hopefully this video makes the whole situation easier to understand regardless.
Until ya engine swap the R32 V Spec instead of the NISMO variant. That's clearly different in performance, both efficiency and character.
Widebody is significantly different too on the R32 variants. Same goes with the Integra Type R variants.
The nismo r32 drives significantly better than the standard v-spec
TLDR: The Nismo GT-R isn't a duplicate. The issue isn't that the car has similar models already in game. It is that Polyphony added it as a major car in a small update when people are looking for all new cars. That isn't a Nismo GT-R problem. The Nismo GT-R should have been added into the game but not exactly in the way that it was.
Full version: In my opinion a duplicate car is an exact same car that you have to acquire independently from the other exactly same car that the game then qualifies as being a separate car for total number of cars in game purposes. For example in Forza race cars with different liveries get sold as completely different cars even though with normal cars different liveries are just different paint jobs that you can choose from. Cars that are virtually the same but different cosmetic parts like bumpers, trim, lights, et cetera, are different cars. The GT-R NISMO and V-spec II are completely different cars in my eyes. They aren't duplicates.
To a massive majority of car experts and true car enthusiastics a facelift is noteworthy enough to be different. Sure, it isn't enough to count as a new generation of the car family but it is still enough to be recognized as different. This gets established further by car makers adding in more changes and potential improvements to go with the facelift. Most of these don't come across in a game like Gran Turismo but I personally don't see that as relevant. In my eyes GT doesn't have any duplicates. It might have more than 1 iteration of the same family (Evos and 993 911s for two more examples) but I see the unique different variants as a cool thing to have that shows of the entire family in a more complete way.
The only time I would take an exception to this is when different trim models get added with no discernible difference. For example if there was a 95 Civic EX and LX added to the game. Same engine, body, et cetera with no discernible difference. Those would be duplicates. The GT-R Nismo and V-Spec-II or 993 911 Carrera RS and RS CS? Completely different cars that I like to see. The reason other people don't like to see them? Simple, they want to see other certain cars that aren't in game yet. That is a them problem though. Not a GT, Polyphony or anything else problem. Fact of the matter is that no matter what cars get added there will always be people complaining for one reason or another. Sure, the complaining is valid in terms of those people should want the cars they want to see added but it isn't valid in the sense that they are complaining about what is being added.
"Oh, another R32 added." So? Look, I'm not a R32 fan either (Really, I'm not. They are among my least liked late 80s to 90s cars. The only Skyline GT-R I even like at all is the R34.) but I still appreciate the fact that it is a unique car being added to the game. Doesn't mean that I can't easily list off 50 other cars I'd rather see added. My point is that people aren't complaining about the R32 being added using entirely valid reasons as to why. So you would rather see another car added to the game? Ok. So would I. That doesn't change the fact that the Nismo GT-R is a unique car to be adding to the game.
All this said the video does bring up one critical point. The fact that Polyphony does a poor job in how they add what people call duplicate cars. I am fully in agreement with what was said in that regard. That is not a problem on the part of the car though. It is a Polyphony problem. Blaming the car is the epitome of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You are putting the blame in the wrong place. That said I still do want to see these cars added even if I don't have much interest in them myself. Rather than advertising them like they are a big new car add them in more as a secondary thing to be mentioned. Make a big deal out of 3-5 properly unique cars and add however many alterations, or 'duplicates', to existing cars as an "Oh by the way" thing.
@@FrankenslideR32GTR NISMO 1990 in GT1 and 2 still a little faster than R34GT-R. LOL.😂
Duplicates were great fun in old GT games, me and my brother would go head to head in a Topgear style budget challenge having $10,000 credits in game each including vehicle mods and then we’d go to multiplayer and race them to see who got the better deal! Gosh I miss this….
Now that sounds insanely fun
That sounds so fun. Wish i could have lived that too
We did that in gt7 for supercars
Yeaaahh and we would face modify them too in the first two hehe and race to death in Tahiti 20 laps with pit and damage!
@@usuppo6753Forza Motorsport 6 also.
As an MX-5 fan/owner I'm actually interested in playing Mazda™ MX-5™ Miata™ Roadster™ Racing: GAME OF THE YEAR EDITION
Same Miata nerds could geek out at all the small differences in the 1st gen editions.
If it let's you spec the interiors, raise & drop the roof, pick left/right hand drive, includes the official MX-5 race cars & supports VR I'm in!
@@adrian_rian_101MX5 CUP cars in GT7 could be also epic.
@@manjininja76MX5 SUPERLIGHT also had 300bhp.
Wdym, it has only 126 hp
Honestyly the inclusion of cars like that didn't feel cheap, it felt like a genuine attempt to be comprehensive. From what I remember, each car had a description that detailed it's history and reasoning for being manufactured. I got annoyed at having to sort through them, but I also learned a lot about real life cars because of they way the included all those models that some would say are unnecessary.
Yeah facts, I used to think the old duplicate cars were a cheap shot at padding but then I started to read the descriptions and gained a much greater appreciation for the subtle differences in similar cars, and then I no longer held that position.
I remember starting out with GT1 and really not appreciating the dups at first. Since most were Japanese cars not released in the US I wasn't even familiar with most of them. It wasn't until I got far enough in with my Prelude to RM it and was so blown away that it was possible, I wanted to see what other cars looked like afterwards, and noticed the dups had different liveries or style. I kinda like that that's carried into 7 somewhat with cars that have clearly similar bodies, having slightly more different aftermarket body kits 😊 I don't believe the dups in 7 take too much longer to produce than the original. If I had to wager I'd say at least half if not a third of the time is saved..based on what if see online anyway.
The "cheap" part IMO is that the GT7 didn't use duplicates the same way GT 1-6 did, to complete a catalog of variants for self-insert value. With GT7, you can't do that anyway because they stripped the consumer tier cars, and in this case it's entirely redundant. Worse, these updates are supposed to be getting the game caught up to where it should be, not padding stats. Instead of new cars they really should be patching up the enormous gaps in the event list so the other half of it's 500+ car list has some kind of purpose, and fixing the event labels that already exist.
@@KiraSlithseems like GT7 done all of those old mistakes from GT SPORT.
@@slayergt3104i also ever race modded the DelSol in GT1.
I fondly remember the time I spent collecting every variation of Impreza and Lancer in GT4. Some people would see them as "duplicates" based on how they tend to react to the cars being put in GT7, but they all had a unique feel and genuine differences worth attention even back in a game made for the PS2 almost 20 years ago. If anything, I appreciate these cars being in the game, because they make you more aware of details you previously took for granted.
Same goes, I have around 7 R34 road car, 4 first gen Impreza, and 5 Honda civic 😂
@@kazefw3834for me 21 Impreza, 33 GTRs, and 19 Evos.
@@purwantiallan5089 YOOOOOOOO, and I thought I'm crazy with the duplicates 😂
There were subtle differences between the different model variations. I have a good memory from GT1, where one of the used Imprezas had a far better tuning potential when compared to all other models
ive been trying to get a collection of all the Initial D cars in gt4 but have hard luck getting the "impact blue" sil-eighty
"Duplicate" cars worked well, very well in fact, in Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo 2 because there was a ROLE to play for the different specs, as well as the fact that the car list of these games was much more true to the "Gran Turismo" definition that what the series has become.
The Alfa Romeo lineup you show is a perfect example for me - back then I had a 155 2.0TS 16V, it was great to find it in the game - although it was significantly slower in game than the real thing :D . It was a much more popular engine than the top-performing 2.5V6 or the turbocharged 2.0 Q4. In the same guise, the various engine versions of the 156 and 166 had their reason to exist - these were "real" cars that the people playing the game might realistically drive in real life - and the game had events where it made sense to use them. Same for the various BMWs 320-323-328.
The problem with duplication in the recent games, especially GT7, is the focus around race cars which, let's be honest, the vast majority of the player base not only have never driven nor seen up close, they didn't even know they existed if they're not Japanese. Having yearly versions of the same racing Skyline or Supra or whatever, all in the same class, with minimal performance difference and without specific events for each one, makes no sense whatsoever. These cars are going to be similar if not identical, with even the "oh look it's MY car!" factor being out of the picture.
And maybe that's the center of the issue here - the focus on RACE CARS. The game is called "Gran Turismo", not "FIA Circuit Racing"; One of the reasons it is (was?) the racing game most loved by non-racing game fans was exactly the "Top Gear Style" premise of it all: go race the cars you see around your city every day. The one you drive, the one your mates have. Your dad's old car and that one you always thought you'd buy, but you never did. By taking the focus away from these and onto race cars, Gran Turismo has become "yet another racing game", with that unique atmosphere that existed, say, in GT2 when you took the aforementioned 156 2.0TS, BMW 320, some 2 liters Merc and the occasional eardrums-splitting Clio V6 for a "daily driver race around Rome" truly gone.
Yeah, Gran Turismo 2's car selection turns the game into a great time capsule. Feels like you're stepping back into 1999 when you turn it on.
They are fun but sadly not even GT had the cars my family had when I was a kid. Hell they still don't have my car now and definitely did not have it when it came out new.
@@TheA53ford what was the cars that you had you and your family if you don't mind me asking
I actually miss the old Gran Turismo where there were different variants of the same car, making the top-spec one feel special to own in the game.
Sadly, they go to more of a race cars route that you'll probably never own or drive if you're not a real professional driver.
The duplicates made the car list feel more expansive and special and not just because of the numbers - if you are looking for the top spec S13 for example and have to get through a bunch of lower spec models then that top spec feels more interesting and special, compared to it being the only S13 in the game
I agree, I didn't mind the duplicates as much only that it was essential for the car enthusiasts who wanted to have an amazing experience whether it was driving their real car or a dream car they wish to own. I never owned a car but I always loved using the Nismo 270R from GT2 being that it's one of the rarest Silvias ever produced and it's still a dream of mine to own one though that won't happen anytime soon.
@@LykanPrototypeI think the thing was that duplicates of JDM meant that there was no room for other cars that could've/should've been there. Like the road-going Escort RS Cosworth or the Corolla G6R.
@@poodabran I'm sure by now with the technology we have we could be able to bring in more specs of different car models and not just JDM ones into the current Gran Turismo games but I get what you mean.
@@poodabranI agree!
One thing that I love about Gran Turismo is how they include base model cars instead of just including the top trim of said cars.
I hate how Forza only includes the Nismo variants of certains Nissans for example. Why can't we have a V6 Mustang or Camaro?
I was mostly pro duplicate, but in the context of GT7, I just don't think they make sense anymore.
When I was a kid, I loved trawling through the car list of duplicates, seeing what colours were available, noting the spec differences, and even test driving some to really get a feel for how they are different. Gran Turismo felt like an interactive museum of sorts, one where I could not just observe car history, but to relive it. Because of this, I now know that the debut model FD RX-7 has slim, 225mm tyres all four corners, with staggered 235 and 255mm tyres available as an option later. Competition Yellow Mica was only available for the first model year, 1991. Montego Blue Mica was an oddball shade of green and not blue. The Type RZ was available only in Brilliant Black and had a shorter final gear ratio, which would become standard on all FD RX-7s come the 1998 facelift, except for the Bathurst R, which has an oddly weird engine sound. The Spirit R may be the most powerful and fastest of the bunch, but it sounds extremely muted. I've seen some real life videos that corroborate all of this. I also happen to know that the RE Amemiya FD3S RX-7 was based off an earlier model because it didn't have tinted rear glass. No other game, perhaps no other medium, would've ever held my attention long enough to really make me notice and appreciate these tiny little details.
I am of the firm belief that Polyphony Digital has never taken a shortcut in modeling duplicate cars (except for the regional variants of GT5 and 6, some of which flat out don't exist). The problem now is that, with it reportedly taking 9 months of man hours to simply get ONE car in the game, and every update spitefully drip feeding us around 3 cars per month, variety will take priority over niche, subtle differences only a dumb kid with way too much time on his hands will notice, and the car list is sorely lacking some glaring omissions, such as the Lexus LFA or a Mazda Cosmo, just as an example. As much as a Mazda fanboy as I am, ask me if I want a unicorn 1992 RX-7 SP or a Koenigsegg Regera in the game, and I will of course say I want the supercar.
I think what PD is currently doing with some cars, such as the Imprezas and F40, make a lot of sense and circumvent the need for duplicates; there are parts in GT Auto that can make your Impreza look like a lower grade spec, or an F40 into an LM if you so wished. I just wish the feature expanded into allowing us to de-badge cars, give us some OE option wheels to change, or swap bumpers to really complete the look. The problem of course, is that it's impossible to replicate the specs of these machines, but I still think it's a much better solution than actually spending 9 months to model a whole freaking new car.
I think duplicate cars only made sense in the earlier Gran Turismo games, where customisation was extremely limited, the car list was swelling with easy to make cars, and we had plenty of one make events for these "lesser" models to shine. If you wanted a Silvia in the early game of GT2 for example, you couldn't just buy a brand new S15 spec-R Aero because it didn't make financial sense; you had to buy an S14, an S13, maybe with a smaller displacement engine and make up for it with upgrades. Of course, the used car dealer became a FOMO machine with stupidly extorbitant prices in GT7, so there goes that. There is an immense satisfaction to be had when you can take an FC RX-7 or even a 4 Speed automatic Touring X and beat high spec FDs with them in the RX-7 meeting in older games. But with how PD are seemingly allergic to adding new, meaningful events, I doubt we'll ever see the day again when duplicates make sense, and it's a shame. I would love to see for myself how much time and money it'd take me, with current GT7 physics, to get a Skyline GTS-t to match a GT-R's pace, or a base Lancer to a Lan Evo.
Odd suggestion, but maybe they should just lower the fidelity a bit? Is it worth it spending 9 months making a car to make an update that releases only 3 new cars, with so much of that time dedicated to visuals, when these games are about driving the cars, not oogling at them?
They could probably do something like release a bunch of "low quality" cars alongside a high quality car or two.
To me, games like Gran Turismo and Forza Horizon are about having a massive roster, not about quality.
@XSquareStickIt, seems like duplicate cars always rule.
I think that for as long as the "duplicate" car has different customization and upgrades it's 100% justified, as it provides something unique that the other car doesn't; it's even better when the "duplicate" car is an entirely different trim, eg. R32 GTS and R32 GT-R V-Spec, where the first one has a weaker engine and a different bodykit than the second one, and thus can serve a different role
For me though your example of an R32 GTS-T and GT-R are practically, visually, and technically (basically in almost every relevant measure) different cars.
The model, engine, drivetrain, etc are different; I think "trims" that are so much different like that shouldn't be considered duplicates regardless of what surface level observation may suggest. It's kind of as absurd as suggesting a special homologation model is a duplicate of the car's base model despite the massive differences.
@@shira_yone you are right, that's why they're quote-unquote duplicates, and I've seen players of another huge car game franchise (Forza ofc) claim that "we don't need more versions of [insert car]" when the proposed version is again unique
Kaido Battle 3/TXR Drift 2 did something like this where they had many versions of the GC8 Impreza (possibly for parity with the many Lancer Evolutions, which were noticeably different barring the Evo 1-3 and the Evo 8 GSR + MR, which still offered unique performance and body kits) and some zenki and kouki variants of the FC, FD, AE86 (around eight AE86 variants were present: zenki and kouki, Levin and Trueno, liftback and coupe) and S13. I assume it's not just to have them perform slightly differently but also to have multiple aero kits (like the zenki FD getting an RE Amemiya kit and the kouki FD getting the Mazdaspeed GT-C aero).
Though I also wouldn't exactly call them "duplicates" aside from maybe the GC8 and the S13 Silvia coupes (which still had both the CA18 and SR20 variants present). And with that said, I still wonder why some other vehicles such as the GTO, Z32, EK9, and NA2 (pre-facelift NA2 Type S Zero would have been cool, since on paper you'd have the NA1's looks but with the painted roof and NA2 performance. In fact, Zero had both the unlicensed NA1 and NA2 present as distinct cars, where the NA1 was lighter but the NA2 had a larger engine and a more rigid body) didn't also get this treatment considering the noticeable visual differences seen in their pre or post facelift models.
@@ArbitraryOutcomeTXR DRIFT 1 to 3 i think has 8 duplicated cars in total.
@@shira_yoneGTS-T maybe not faster than GTR but its slightly has better acceleration rate.
23:12 The endurance version actually has slightly more aero and additional lights, which is why it's a separate model.
Was waiting for someone to comment this lol
But yes, that's why it's separate
Duplicate cars were not a problem back when games had a lot less details (in GT4 all they really had to do is model different spoilers, wheels etc for a same line of cars, but there were no interiors).
Now if the really need to rescan the whole car and spend 5 months doing basically just another R32 with a different bumper and interior ...
Eh you don't need to rescan every single one of the interiors/exteriors in a single model of cars they are similar enough just model the extra bibs and bobs (or remove them) on to the existing scanned model manually still a good bit of effort for not that much though but it would be nice
I absolutely love GT's attention to detail but even then I think that if the differences aren't that big then they should just scan the different parts, maybe the interior and leave it at that
Forza however with its almost non-existent attention to detail can easily make more versions of a single car without changing much; look at the S14 Zenki and Kouki, Zenki still uses its Forza Motorsport 1 model in Horizon 5 down to still having Kouki body mods, while the Kouki is based on that FM1 model with its front end replaced for a poorly made Kouki front and it features just a single kit which even then is mismatched and inaccurate; it's too likely that this shit will continue in FM and I hate that, but it would be fine if the base model and any changes made to it were accurate
@@cin2110everything gets updated, you can't always use your old and call it a day, I mean look at Forza with their og xbox cars ported to even the reboot while showing how the ray tracing works and get away with it, thing is why **I GUESS** even if it was a special edition trim took those 9 months to develop
@@elrinconcuriosodesally3528agree. Seems like GT4 duplicated cars never been an issue.
Let the community mod!
I still love GT5 even though most of the cars were GT4 imports, the collection aspect was amazing. The amount of car variants made it even cooler!
i never minded that most cars didnt have modeled interiors, because i don't play racing games to stare at dashboards lol
I was still using a CRT when GT5 came out, so the difference between Standard and Premium models was barely noticeable anyhow.
GT5's UCD/OCD and ticket system also helped create a thriving trading/collector community. I remember it being a point of pride for GTPlanet members to have what they called "0/0/0 (miles, wins, times entered)" Standard cars, or rare Standard versions of Premium cars like the Standard 787B or Enzo. Some would even have multiple accounts to game the UCD rotation and tickets and that's before you get in to the difficult/impossible-to-obtain cars like the GT Academy 370s and GT-Rs. It was tedious since you had to fight GT5's agonizing load times, but looking back, it was also a lot of fun, and is most likely the last time such elements will exist in a GT game.
I don't think duplicates would be as much an issue if they were counted more as a sub-model, and not included in the total car count. The thing I find more irritating is having too many race varients of things while a normal model has not all that much to do as far as customisation (though, this is from a Forza perspective). I'd prefer in those cases if you can modify the base car into the race version instead.
Need for Speed Shift did that where you could mod the car to race spec.
I think that GT made a mistake by making race versions of so many cars separate cars instead of making them new Race Modifications; it's more understandable in Sport as that game didn't really feature customization, but 7 could've easily done that
also, Forza needs its own race modifications, especially for the new FM where it could allow for all new racing leagues
Why do you people have such an aversion to race cars?
Do you know just how different some of Them are from the base model?
@@mintgoldheart6126 for me personally, it's just the race modified ones I'd want more integrated into the core model. I don't strictly have anything against race cars but I love customising my cars in games, and race cars usually have nothing you can really do with them.
@@audi-71830yep. What if there is "Racing Modification Only Championship" in GT1 & 2?
I love the duplicates for the simple reason that it allows me to own my exact irl car in a video game, down to the year, spec and colour.
I'm playing GT4 now and I've been going to the used car dealership everytime it updates to get the exact color of my golf mk4 gti.
You need to do a video about the lack of tracks / rain effects in GT7. Especially on the much praised rain effects who are only on 1/3 of the available tracks.
According to GT7 it never rains in the Americas
@@mikekop1997 😂true
Almost a year and a half now and we've gotten exactly THREE new tracks and ZERO new championships. The game is boring 😴
@@mikekop1997also never rain at Suzuka.
@@bigsarge8795yep. Only 3 new tracks, 58 new cars but NO new events. GT7 is 👎!
Somewhere on the GTP GT Sport forums someone did comparisons of the egregious duplicates in that game, namely the AE86s and Meganes. Using scapes cars can be swapped in and out at the exact same angles and stances, and you can actually see identical polygon meshes on many panels, so it is absolutely a fact that PD does do copy/pastes when they put in similar models that share parts IRL.
Side note - the Cayman GT4 that got added to GT7 isn’t a duplicate, that’s actually the first road car Cayman we’ve got despite the fact the Cayman race car was in since launch in GTS for over 6 years. It has the same naming conventions as the 911 GT3/GT2 etc which are also IRL racing categories with road cars named after them, even though GT3 class cars share little in common with the road cars they’re based on.
I believe the longest part of prepping a car for a GT game is the 3D modeling itself, given its 500k-1mil+ polygons these days. I’ve met their audio guy (poached from the forza team almost 10 years ago) and from recording to functional in game sound is only around 2-3 weeks depending on the complexity of the engine (turbos/supercharged etc). Physics surely isn’t a 9 month process given the output of other top level sims.
Given all that, I really do wish they would put more variations of a single model in, especially when they have major differences in engines or drivetrains, like you described with the R32 GTR vs GTST. Another great example of that is the 6th gen Celica - we have the homologation GT-FOUR now, but the only new parts they’d need to model to have the front drive base model is the front bumper, hood, and wheels - everything else is identical cosmetically. From this you could get the base GT/GTS, and the SSii/SSiii with the BEAMS NA 3S engine, which also had the rally wing riser blocks. From that you get a low power FWD car that would fit with base civics and preludes, and a medium power NA FWD car that directly competes with the Integra Type R, all from the existing Turbo AWD model thats placed with WRXs and Evos. They’d have similar options if they went about adding a 5th gen celica or transaxle Porsche. Very cheap modeling for very different performing cars.
First accurate take I've heard on this 👍
If anything, I would like to see "variations/models" of cars, I would just like them organized a bit differently. Like instead of individual cars listed seperately, the Car (model) type could be a selection, and then select by package level. (ex. Skyline > R32 + R32 Nismo + R33 + R34)
-I mean if it was up to me, you'd be able to factory customize with dealer installed components as well.
-That way it makes you have to scan thru less stuff you didn't want to.
A real dealership experience would be amazing, picking out the best components available to make a brand new car that’s really yours, going cheap or expensive in the trim. But only Test Drive does it. Then each used car would be different by itself without being separate models.
Duplicates in GT4 really worked for me, I loved browsing the different model years and trim variations, they added the impression of me walking around a big used car dealer where they had the odds and ends of the car world. Although more a soft duplicate, due to the variations the two models had, were the VW Lupo's in GT4. GT4 was out a few years before I was allowed to drive, but the Lupo GTi became my dream car due to me being made aware of the existence of such a car. If only the 1.4 was in the game (which was a Sport in the UK), I would never have seen the car that I would ultimately end up owning years later. I even owned the 1.4 that was also in GT4 as a stepping stone to the GTi.
The magic of having so many variants of cars is that you may end up owning one of them later in life, or already own one, and it somehow enhances your enjoyment of the game.
The Lupo GTi has been the best car I ever owned until I had to sell her due to mechanical issues after 8 years, but I was able to own a rare and incredible car that I only knew of through GT4 and the inclusion of duplicates.
Talking about old GT games and the new skyline "duplicate", it would be cool if we had in GT7 the racing modification just like in the older series
An example would be the Sierra RS500, Skyline R32, BMW E30 turned into a Group A touring car (possibly with it's own category) or the C6 Corvette that can be turned into a GT2 race car and can race against Gr.3 cars
I just found about this feature recently (GT7 is the first game in the series I've really played) and it's crazy to me this isn't still a thing, it seems like such a cool feature!
Half the car list will be gone because they're Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3, Gr.4, Gr.B, Gr.X duplicates, that's the real duplicates problem with Gran Turismo 7
I didn't like duplicates in GT5 that much, mainly because they were mostly standard cars, but them being in used dealership made them have some reason to exist.
But I do think that for 99% of people they are useless in GT6.
Why would I NOT pick the only premium model available for the car, when they're all equally available.
It was best in GT2 and GT4 where all models were of equal quality, and them being shuffled in used dealership means that you'll get a different version every time you play.
actually, i'm not sure about gt2, but in gt4 the used dealership isn't random at all. there's a predetermined list of cars available during each in-game week, with the cycle taking 700 days to repeat and four exclusive black race cars only appearing in the used dealerships during the final week of the cycle.
@@bruhbbawallacefor me used cars in GT2 & 4 are equally very useful.
I have a very good memories with the duplicate cars. I remember when as a child I got that weird hyperfixation about different models of Lotus Elise in GT2 and I remember spending so much time just grinding credits to get all of them and then compare In both machine test and also by doing the one make race over and over again with every version.
hello, 3d modeller here, duplicate cars in modern day and age are still far out quicker than an entirely new model, the Nismo R32 for example, is still an R32 GTR, so the team at polyphony almost surely used the in-game R32 as base, it would be very innefficient (and frankly stupid) to waste time and money to develop an entirely new one from scratch when they already have 90% of it already made, they probably really did just modify the existing R32 since the nismo in this version isnt different enough to justify modelling eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything twice again
Also 3D artist here, I think you have to take Polyphonys lead creator's perspective into account when theorising on these things. For regular artists/studios, yes 100% it's both less time consuming and costs significantly less to do it this way, infact this is exactly how it's done for the project I'm currently working on however with Kaz's absolute obsession for detail I can easily imagine any panel that wasn't confirmed to be completely identical would be remodelled, especially with each car being laserscanned where any minute difference could be more obviously seen vs older/other vehicle modelling methods. So while I imagine it probably is quicker to make a "duplicate" it probably takes alot more than 10% of the time like it would for others.
Also another fun fact, as someone who has modelled some of the early 2000's JGTC cars, they aren't simply just re-liveried versions of the same car, alot of them have subtle differences to their aero packages, I wish they were identical, I'd have significantly less headaches!
@@BlueVerti true, specially for racing cars the teams really put a lot of effort into maximizing performance for a given platform, i can see they being very different from one another besides liveries. I completely forgot about kaz's perfeccionism i can really see him being annoyed at the poor modeller if the panel isnt an 1:1 to the real nismo
If Gran Turismo is trying to be a real life driving simulator, it would be natural that a car head would have to choose which generation, trim, performance package for each car. Just like real life, I enjoy the detail being a car nerd
I loved the duplicates in the old games because they often felt different to each other but when I finally got around to owning a ps3 it was quite a shock to see the amount of basically identical variations, especially of the MX5 and S2000. It depends on how the duplicate is handled as a variation I feel, in the older games a GTR, GTR V-Spec and GTR V-Spec II all felt basically identical but a GT-T/GTST, GTR and Nismo all felt different even if they seemed similar on the surface. I'm in support of duplicates but so long as the duplicate being added has a sense of being different from the original, like how one of the early speculations for the Skyline in the update was that it could be a GTS-t which if anything I was more excited about than the idea of it being the Nismo.
Mechanical CAD designer here!
Although my job is no where near that of a game design 3d modeler, I do work with CAD design software and 3d scans quite often. It is quite likely that Polyphony is utilizing at least some if not a majority of a previous scan/model (in the case of the r32 nismo and the r32 V spec II) for cars that are largely the same/are more along the lines of a modified/minorly updated model. With 3d scanning software, its nearly impossible to get a complete scan of an entire object from every angle and position in a single scan. The scanner can often lose track of its positioning, pick up on unnecessary background surfaces, etc. So instead we take multiple scans focusing on sections at a time, be it larger sections like the front end (front bumper, hood, both fenders, wheels) or individual components. This helps the scanning process as you don't have the anxiety of "oh fuck please let the program crash and delete 3 hours of scan data" and also lets you get every last detail of whatever object you're scanning. Think of it this way, it would be impossible to scan an entire car in a single scan, how would you get the interior along with the undercarraige and the engine bay. If you instead broke it down into sections and then laid them all together like a collage, you make your job a lot easier. I believe Polyphony is likely taking the existing scan data/model of the base car's (in this case the R32 V Spec II) model, scanning the relivant differences (like the gauges, front bumper, wheels, etc) then replacing the original scan data with the corrected ones for the new one.
I always appreciated duplicates in games, it gave you an unparalleled feeling of inmersion when it came to car shopping, as if you were truly selecting a trim, and even if you didn't buy them, seeing them in the used car dealership and as rivals in races still felt pretty good and made the game feel bigger.
But I feel GT6 overdid it, putting ALL cars in a single, unified new car dealership was a bad call, it looked cheap and lazy, you truly felt like you were seeing the same car over an over again, no special editions that you buy impulsively before they dissapear, no unique variants that you'd expect to win in a championship, nothing feeling really special.
I agree with the importance of how these cars are introduced into the game, they should come as an option along with the base model, and feel like a more simplified version of the trim customization you can find in games like Test Drive Unlimited. Its a good thing there's the livery editor and the mods tho, thanks to that I'm driving the most niche cars in any game in history, f*ck the EK9 Civic Type R, me and my homies drive the perfect EK4 SI-R Civic replica.
Yeah, the presentation of GT6 really stunk. The thing that makes the duplicates work so well is that "finding a needle in a haystack" feeling while browsing that week's used car offerings. When the full set is readily available, there's no reason not to just pick the best one.
I think the duplicates got the worst in GT6. It often felt like in some dealers half of all cars were just 5 different models with all kinds of different varients.
That being said I feel that this fits into the sandbox, dial to 11 esque feel of GT6 and I definetly prefer that to only 150 cars (like wtf GTSport?)
I agree with you that the issue is not that duplicate cars are added in general but how/when. I think different car trims have a purpose, but only once you can affort such luxury. In my opinion PD should focus more on getting more unique brands/models into the game before adding dupicates.
We need to strap Kazunori san to a chair and make him PLAY all the games before he is allowed to make the next one
Duplicate cars was my favourite thing about the game back then. We actually did that thing of finding our family's member's cars and racing them on vs. Also, revisiting the second game, being more grown up, I found it so interesting and unique when I saw a 4 door skyline variant in the used car dealership. It brought a sense of exploration, and discovery. Jumping into a one make race with the less competitive variant of a model felt challenging and fun. It was the main expectation I had when gt7 was announced. But yeah here we are.
3:01 This an absolutely perfect response to the usual “31 of the same Skyline” argument.
To this day, Gran Turismo is the only game in which I’ve ever found the EU-spec, pre-facelift, EP3 Civic Type R in Milano Red that I actually own. Being able to find the absolute exact model of car you drive and then being able to do a whole variety of different performance upgrades to it that you’d never be able to afford in real life and then racing it is such an awesome feeling if you’re a gigantic car nerd like most of us GT players.
The duplicates are an effective way to buff out the car count, for sure. But it’s way more than just that.
Honestly, the way that duplicates are taking the spots over new cars in GT7 updates are pissing me off.
I don't mind duplicate cars in racing games, having more choices is always good. However I don't think these cars were chosen that well in GT4-5-6... how come you have 4 or 5 VW Golfs (arguably one of the most important cars ever) vs 10 or 12 variations of the NB Miata??? That said, it's sad that we will probably never see large amounts of similar cars in a racing game ever again...
You think golf is more important than miata.
😂
@@qarinah8586 for overall car history? Yes. It's the better selling hatchback of all time and created a trend that lasted 40 years. Of course Miata is another key car in history, and much more important for car enthusiasts, but I would argue it didn't get as big overall, you don't see everyone driving roadsters...
@qarinah8586 besides that, we are speaking of not even every generation of golf but 12 variations of the same generation of mx5
@@qarinah8586for me both Miata and Golf are equally important bro.
"have you had good experiences with these duplicates? Or bad ones?": *Proceeds to show the cappuccino* yup... That one specifically 😂
An idea that I had for the longest time when it came to how Duplicates work would be how it is done in Gran Turismo 2 with primarily significant variants being used.
What would be nice to see is Polyphony in the future to revamp the car dealer so that it is more streamlined, yet still has massive variety.
Take the Nissan Skyline R32 for example. In the Dealer, you would see some basic Skyline for a really cheap price, but when you click on it, a second list appears with the various trim levels, each with their own models and details. This would be a massive pain to develop as models take a long while, but I think having a folder system for cars with several variants would be kind of nice like how they do the Group 3 livery variants in GT7 presently.
The cool thing with duplicate cars in GT2 was that it had the closest base model EK civic to my dad’s; it even had the super sonic blue pearl colour. I think it had the correct silver colour of my mum’s too. Unfortunatley, my aunt’s light green colour is not available.
I just want PD to add the ability to change liveries for cars in custom races. I'm tired of buying duplicate cars just to put different liveries on them in order to have an authentic grid. It would make so many more cars useful and create less grinding.
No joke, I played gt2 for the first time last year, just because of the BMW lineup that's not in any other similar game. I really enjoyed the whole game as well
I played through GT4 recently for a similar reason, but with Alfa Romeo. It’s nice to be able to play around with older, less-significant models that are likely never to appear again in a more modern game.
@@vaiouser2 Funny thing is, the "less significant" models in the games are the MOST significant ones in reality...there are many more people who own/owned a 156 2.0TS or a 320i than those who got their hands on a 2.5V6 or a 330i...IF the game claims to go after car lovers, that should be kept in mind.
I didn't really expect so many people to agree with your stance, but it seems that it's mostly the GT community. I play Forza, and I hate duplicates in Forza. The car list Is massive, but I really don't need like 5 versions of the 599, the fastest model would be enough. Instead of many different Huracáns, I would prefer PG to work on more customization for the singular selected model of Huracán for example. Or they could use their energy on an actual career. It's good to see that most of the GT community doesn't have a problem with this, I just feel like Forza works differently here. BTW good video, just like every other from you
Forza works differently because either you have all versions of the car in the autoshow, or the weakest version is the rarest one because after appearing in 4 titles in a row they get rid of it for no reason
if you made the cars only rare accordingly to their real life rarity and performance and gave them some unique characteristics (eg. version 1 gets more engine swaps and a widebody, version 2 has its own one widebody, version 3 has massive bonuses from races) then I think things would be a lot more balanced; I'd be looking forward to having 4 versions of the NSX NA1 if each one featured something that whichever one doesn't have
@@audi-71830 yes, I agree. That's a good idea, but it once again comes back to customization right? As if there wasn't enough of it in Forza. Though the more I think about it, older games had less customization, yet I never felt like it was a big problem. Games like FM4 and FH1 didn't even have drift suspension or widebodies, but I had a bigger connection to every car nonetheless. So I think that's the problem. Modern Forza ditched any progression, giving you the new Supra right from the start and drowning you in cars afterwards. But in FM4, you start with economy sh*tboxes, And over the course of the game you build a big collection, but you have a connection and memories with every one of your cars, even though FM4 has the biggest car list in series. That's not to say I don't want more customization, actually it's the opposite. I just feel like we can cut boring models that are in the series since FM3 and not rerelease them as comebacks or what have you. And have a good progression once more. That's all I would want. I wouldn't mind sacrificing graphics, FH1 was the peak, cuz it had an identity.
I actually liked having duplicate versions in GT4 as the smaller spec differences not only made the roster feel more "alive", varied and like a real used car dealership, it also worked to facilitate a variety of needs and budgets for various racing series, especially considering in the older games buying the right cars was actually important for progession. Development time aside, I care very little for duplicate cars in GT7 either way. The "career" just doesn't benefit from having lower spec models that you can get at a cheaper cost so you can barely afford to compete in the MR championship or the like. From my point of view it would only be a "nice to have", especially for enthusiasts of certain cars, but in a game like GT7 it feels irrelevant whether I get the GR86 or BRZ (although with that comparison there actually are a handful of notable visual differences but still).
It feels like the only reason to get cars is for the sake of getting them and I do miss my selection of car actually being narrowed down by wanting to progress. I do have to admit I am very biased towards the older games though, and realise that something like a GT4 roster at future game launches in the seriescwill be quite unfeasable considering how long car modelling takes currently, and to then add duplicates instead of new cars at the same development rate seems like not even an option.
I mean, imagine having GT4 reward randomiser but in a modern game with actual championships and stuff to play through! I do like GT7 a lot but I hope that sooner rather than later there'll be an actual career with actual content to play through, and only then would duplicate cars make a lot of sense in my personal experience, as long as they accept forgoing purity and save some time instead of making 7 MX5 duplicates, each from scratch
Wait what a ramble lol
One thing you didn't mention is the Australian market. We had some very unique cars made here for around 60 years with some of the fastest four door cars on the planet being built here. The best we got was two fords, two holdens and Glen Seton's old race car in GT4.
You've gotta remember that up until the 80s Australian cars were just "American cars but sold by Temu" and post that they still weren't comparable to the rest of the world
I love the duplicate models in the old games, especially when they have essentially facelifted versions of the same car or a sport trim or something like that. However, if it does take so long to develop them, it's definitely not worth it. I do also think it's really important for unique trims to be represented though, because so many get forgotten about. By this point most of these trims and special editions that were duplicate cars in the old GT games are unrecognisable due to basically every car over 15 years old being modded nowadays. I remember I was at a show last year and recognised a stock classic Miata special edition that had a really nice navy felt interior (forgot which spec it actually was, oops) and my first thought was, "Wow, this reminds me of one of those models in GT4!"
I daily an 04 Accord that used to be our only family car when I was a kid and then got it handed down when I was old enough to drive. Funny that Rofl talks about having your real car in GT as a two door coupe version of that car appears in GT5! I don't think there were duplicates for it, but that was actually the first time I "drove" my car haha!
This video made me really think about the topic and I came to the conclusion, that it actually is great. If it would be about cars I like, like Saabs or Volvos or whatever, I'd be super greatful to have several versions of the same car. Back in the day I was always annoyed by getting almost the same car over and over again, but now I finally understand the sense of it and totally agree with you.
I know this probably means nothing to you or anyone else here, but I find it kind of neat that the photo I took of the '90 R32 Nismo for the GT WIki got to be used in your thumbnail, feels kinda cool in some strange way. Keep up the good work man!
Ah, Gran Turismo 2 and 4... I actually started loving the "duplicate" nature of the car list after playing these. Then there was Initial D and Wangan Midnight, all pushing me into wanting to know more about JDM cars and their trims. Some car manufacturers also pushed me into this by making... Fun and memorable versions of their existing cars (Lancer Evolution, Subaru WRX STi and much much more).
I dunno, man, when I play games that let me choose the trim / version of a car I want, I always feel warmth in my heart.
Anyway, it's just my opinion, now about something important.
Some games made good use of the "duplicate" system. Street Racing Syndicate, for example, had like 10 or something cars, but each one had at least two variations. Each one differed in price AND performance, and you had to make decisions to actually get something good for the price. Or you could just get a specific trim just because you wanted it and nothing else.
I actually find it stupid not to make more trims for a single car model in a racing game. It is always something like "Skyline? GTR", "Civic? Type-R" "BMW 3? M3!" and so on and so forth. Yeah, I get it, but... Imagine that you, the player, want a Mitsubishi Lancer, but there is only the Evo variant, and only the VII generation. And you don't have the money to buy it yet. That's sad. But what if there were like... All the generations, at least some trims (Lancer Sedan with 1.6 engine, a Wagon, an Evo)... If that was the case, you would be able to afford at least some sort of a Lancer, even if it would be slow. And then after some time you could get a better one.
Duplicates are not bad if used correctly. Something like GT7 wouldn't benefit from it obviously, but something else definitely could. It is having more choice that matters here, really. More variants, more options, more ways to stand out by getting, I don't know, a diesel Toyota Crown Royal Saloon xD Why not, if you want?
But I also understand that modern games are more detailed and making convincingly different duplicates is hard...
So, I guess, duplicates WERE good and WERE used as a tool to make the games better. Not anymore tho...
Having enjoyed the PS1 era of Gran Turismo, I would say I've always liked the "duplicated" cars. Spent countless of hours reading their descriptions and informations. It was the entry portal for JDM cars for foreigners. I think that's the lore it has, at least for me.
Saying that, I'm all in with adding "semi duplicates" cars, like, as you said, the GTS-T Skylines, or 4 door versions of them. But from my point of view, the cars (used road cars) they should add should follow the car culture of different parts of the world. Looking for amateur racing series or track days events from different countries can give you an idea of which cars could be good candidates to be added.
And also, I hope adding those duplicated cars takes less time compared to adding new ones, considering some details are shared, like headlights, taillights, interior components and more.
I liked the R32 Nismo being the only car to have the naca ducts, lip spoiler, and the touring car aero, to make it distinct from the V Spec. I can see this happening to new gen GT. A car with mechanical differences or a facelift should be tolerated for inclusion.
Shoutout to stream of tears at 17:00 . The maximum tune OST is so good.
I have to go on a tangent about Echo Fighters in Ultimate because it confuses me to no end. So the obvious benefit is that you can create a character with a slightly different fighting style with barely any development time at all, just some stat tweaks. Pit and Dark Pit are a good example, they're almost identical, but because of a couple of key changes to one of their most important moves, you have valid reasons to prefer either one.
A worse example is Peach and Daisy. They play almost identically, but at least they share the same animations across most of their moves, so people who like Daisy can finally play as her without the developers needing to spend a lot of time to develop a whole new character.
But for some reason, there are Echo Fighters that are the exact opposite to Pit and Dark Pit, as in they took loads of time to develop, but play identically to the character they're based on. The best example is Samus and Dark Samus. Dark Samus has completely different animations to Samus, which is insane because character animation might be the most time consuming part of character creation. Dark Samus is wonderfully animated and it's clear that they put in a lot of effort to make it visually distinct from Samus. But all moves are functionally identical between the two characters. They look completely different but do the exact same thing.
If an analogy helps, Pit and Dark Pit is like having two identical cars, but one with a diesel engine and one with a petrol engine. Both are viable choices for slightly different applications and there are valid reasons for using either one. Peach and Daisy is like two exactly identical cars, but one has a pink paint job and one has a yellow one. It's kinda weird that they're classified as two different things, but it's nice that you have a choice (although their colours don't work well as paint job options lol). Samus and Dark Samus is like two identical cars, but one has a thousand hand placed diamonds as interior decoration. Sure, that might appeal to some people, but it's a lot of time and resources spent on a fairly minor thing that most people won't really care about because the car drives and feels the same either way.
i always liked that they added loads of variants or special editions it showed they were speaking out to jdm and real car guys no just casual race game fans that have heard of skyline n supra ect and assume there all the same
It's funny you mentioned how many cards gt7 has.
I didn't realize it was quite that high. Of course, my issue with gt7 isn't the car count, it's the lack of events for the various cars. I want an Impreza vs. Lancer set of events. I want MR races so I can put my nsx's and MR-2's to use. I don't even care if they win me a lot of money because I have all the cars I want in gt7. Just want events to race them in.
I wish we had a game where you can just get every version of a car available
assetto corsa
That would be one expensive game. I'd imagine given all the licensing and troubles/changes some companies have that would be a massive undertaking.
@@CartoonNetworkGlitches assiett corsa dosent have all cars and its inconsisant quality but there is a lot of cars
@@mustang750r Well, why not? I mean, we have like 12 versions of the Street R34 in Gran Turismo 4, combine them into one and make tuning possible with different engines, different parts and colors and you can probably combine them into a single "car"
Thing is, I'd wish you would also have all the interior options, too... Different gauges, colors of the seats.
@@andreasmoller9798 the good thing is you can moderate it yourself.
A bit off topic, but I remember when I was a kid I would by cars that my relatives / neighbours / someone I know owned in GT2, and kind of "test drive" them. There were plenty of ordinary, everyday cars in GT2 that I were owned by someone I knew, off the top of my head : Suzuki Wagon R, Toyota Corona, Toyota Starlet, Nissan Sunny, Peugeot 206, Mazda 323, and perhaps some others.
There's a certain charm of driving a car I know that's so cared for by its owner flat out in a circuit, thinking "Hey Uncle Ben never drives his Peugeot this fast, so this is how it feels like" sort of thing.
I like the Duplicates over all and finding your exact car being in the game was AWESOME and sometimes the fun of hunting down the car of a favorite TV show or Movie character is fun too you don't want companies to cheap out but I think GT 1-4 struck that balance well GT 5 had so many other problems i didn't notice all the Duplicates like the miata
my strongest memory is in gt4 where i tried to unlock all 715 cars for arcade mode by buying all the missing ones in career mode and having to buy like 10 versions of the honda nsx, i thought it was funny at the time but also a bit confusing because not knowing if it was a car that I had already unlocked or not
Dude, the game you want already exists but instead of miatas it's porsches. It's called Need for Speed Porsche unleashed.
you forgot the biggest double cars Opel and Vauxhaul , Opel calibra dtm x Vauxhaul calibra dtm, same stickers, same all
i have a 2nd gen BRZ on order so when it was added to the game i was happy cuz i was able to experiment with color and wheel choices before submitting my spec to the dealer tbh
Having multiple livery versions for race cars was ESSENTIAL for me becoming a car guy. I've always loved the Mugen Castrol NSX because of GT3
great video bro, I totally agree with your opinions.
just a note: the Mazda Atenza is actually the Mazda 6 in Europe, not 3.
Really won me over the second Stream of Tears hit. Wasn't expecting wangan music in a GT video
I think an important note alongside a point you are making (which is great, don't get me wrong - I've owned my own cars in Gran Turismo, down to the colour and sub-model, and year revisions, and even wheel choice - and it definitely adds an extra something) but there's been 25 years of car manufacture alongside the games, flooding the real market with hundreds more models, and none of the car models from the original games have really left the market either - they just hold up in the classic segment, and then classic models move to vintage or heritage status...to produce the same 'environment' today where it does genuinely feel like you are heading into the current car market to buy your car (or dream car) and have that 'special something' potentially available to any potential player - consider your local used market in the context of Gran Turismo's Used Car Lot and it becomes easier to see why compromise might be made on model choices. Great vid!
This adds so much replay value to the games, Ive only played from GT1 to the 4th and I still keep coming back to the first and second games and not just because of the nostalgia. Honestly these put all the forzas to shame in that aspect. Forzas feel like they went "So you loved that fun little old car your dad had when you were a kid? Here's the goddamn rally version of it with almost zero familiarities or any other resemblance to the ordinary shitbox you once knew"
As someone who is in the drift/touge scene, the S14 was a really big get, and for classic JDM motorsport fans the Nismo with the aero package was amazing. Dupes are about filling in the cracks that they know people want. Go look at how granular the Assetto Corsa touge car modding scene gets with models and trim levels.
Having duplicate cars in the game is actually quite amazing and very unique. It’s great to know that one specific car has many versions of themselves being built from different countries for different matter of reasons. Forza can’t even come close of making duplicates consider they only rely on using the same model they’ve had for over 2 decades.
I used to love grabbing a copy of autotrader, and going through every car and driving it in the game. I also loved that it had many cool BMWs like the 3,5,7,8 series, which we had growing up :)
I wonder how PD has managed to ignore probably the most common JDM sedan the Toyota X chassis series
particularly the JZX90/100 which are hugely popular with drifters
Ayy I see you used Stream of Tears from WMMT2 soundtrack lol.. sadly latest iteration of WMMT arcade game only available in Asia-Oceania region
Amazing content as always by the way 👌🏻
I love having the options for different specs even if they're the same body. For example r32 was formerly available in rb20 and rb25 variations, awd or rwd. The s chassis cars were available in ca18 or sr20 variations, you could choose between a 7m or 1j supra, the list goes on.
i always love this in gran turismo, from the ps2 eras as a kid looking al the specs and variants and reading info from these cars and learning the diffirences, is not about the numbers of cars, is about the culture around them and obviusly is always funny to see 27 different gtr r34
There was this exotic division in Mazda called "M2", which designed and produced a couple of very interesting special editions of Eunos Roadster. There was also this turbo NA Mazda made for celebrate its 787B win at LeMans. I'd love for them being included in GT7, as well as an NB, NC and the most powerful variants of NA and ND, which are not in the game due to them being never sold in Japan.
Imho this, for a bunch of key cars in automotive history, instead of Vision GTs and fake Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars, is what would make GT single player mode great again.
In the older games I didn’t mind them and even made the one make races more unique by seeing more “variety” on the grid
Gran Turismo: Has a few duplicate cars.
Forza: Hold my beer!
I imagine a reason why Japanese car racing games often refer to car models by their chassis codes is because they can feature multiple generations of the same car model e.g. FC3S & the next gen FD3S for the Mazda RX-7, BNR32 & BNR34 for the Nissan SkyLine GT-R R32 & R34 respectibely
Looking back, my car at the time that Gran Turismo 2 came out was... a Neon R/T, which IS in the game. Edit: My current car is also BOTH in GT Sport and GT 7: The Focus ST.
In GT5 i made a point of collecting every version of the Z33. I spent hours benchmarking each one to see which had the best nordschleife time.
Side note: im sure they're able to re-use existing models to an extent. Sure they may need to laser scan a different bumper or interior here and there. But i very much doubt they're starting from scratch. There is no reason to do so, the software used for 3d modeling has the capability to extract "modules" frol existing models.
I understand this so much.
People love playing games where they can drive their own daily cars that’s why GT2 was so successful
I still can’t comprehend how they haven’t constantly been adding race events and series.
When I was younger I absolutely loved playing GT5 on my PS3, I got the game as it released at the same time as getting the PS3 I'm fairly sure and it was one of the first proper racing games I ever played, and still to this day perhaps the one I've enjoyed most. At the time I never thought anything about duplicate cars and I still would prefer it now actually, I recently bought an NB Miata as my second car and I'd love to go back and play the game to get the exact variant, I find details like that super satisfying and fun and would enjoy it a lot more than when I recently played Need For Speed Heat which doesn't even feature the NB as an option at all.
I honestly I think this has inspired me to go get my PS3 out of the attic and load of GT5 again, so thanks hahaha :)
To me there are 2 options on how introduce a variation of an already existing car for an update:
1.: Keep it out of any teaser and don't count it towards the amount of vehicles in that update. Once the update drops it can be mentioned as an addition.
2.: Only tease the new unique models and reveal the duplicate from the get-go. Could go very in-depth with that car and how it differs from the other version.
Well, i think that these duplicates should be in a seperate menu.
For example, if you want a R34 Skyline, instead of having 5 duplicates displayed side by side, there could be one, and when you click it, it opens up another menu where you choose the version you want.
Same could apply to racecars that are the same, only changing the skin
to be fair we dont even have that many modern "sports" cars to choose from
You could considered detailed FPS games like Tarkov as having a similar duplicate/ echo fighter problem. Dozens of different guns, but the majority are just different versions of the same old AK or AR-15 platform with minor differences.
the thing i miss most was being able to mod up a car i use to drive to compete against supercars. It was truly the best part of the early games
I wouldn't mind with duplicates tbh. I'll take RX7 for example, there were so many variation to it from road cars, sports car, tuned cars, and racing/drift cars. While also looked like it's a cheap way to pad out car numbers however I think, similarly what you said in the video, they have their own purpose. In GT, taking a modified road car version of RX7 would still put you at a disadvantage as it has limits against the racing version that is tailored to that area such as better aero, better gearing, etc. So I'd argue that duplicates can still offer gameplay varieties.
Thanks to this duplicate thingy, I wouldn't know that RX7 had A-spec variation with different aero styling and bodykit, not the usual RX7 we've been seeing.
I still play GT2 through GT6 and I didn't even buy Sport or 7. I loved being able to find the exact year of mk 2 MR2 that I owned at the time and buy that, or buy the model years we didn't get in the US, and also pretending to go back in time to when all the other 90s Japanese cars that I grew up loving were actually affordable.
I think the argument stems from the fact that most duplicates in older titles were included from the initial launch of the game. When additional cars are added (particularly for a cost) it's not unrealistic for people to assume that they would be getting 'new' models, preferably those never included in the series before.
The dupes were fun in the old games because they were just included with no hype. The difference now is that they're being added as 'new' content, we wait all month for a slightly different Silvia, just feels lazy.
Your Mazda racing game idea sounds a lot like Ford Mustang: The Legend Lives, a spin off of the Ford Racing series, where almost every spec of Mustang from 1964 to 2005 was available to drive, including rare specs that aren't in many games.
Back in GT5 and 6 I wished they had a non-prototype version of the Miura that didn't cost 15 million credits. I never got one through legitimate means.
Having something like an R32 GTS-t like you said, or a non Type-R version of the NSX, which would be cheaper, even if still expensive, could be neat.
I modded a 90's Civic Type R to look like a Si.
I'd rather have more types than variants, variants or duplicates still welcome, but I'm eager to test drive all the different cars.
Well, I really like the so-called “duplicates” since I myself treat them as their own thing. Sure, this car and that one might be almost identical, their are still nuances that makes the game all the more interesting. Imagine deciding which version of the car to own base on your budget and taste ? That would be awesome to me since I need a slower, cheaper version to feel the upgrades and performance the top trim brings. I really like this car dealership idea, but that’s just me. Also, I do think completely new models are much needed for if you want to drive an e class in gt7, you can’t at all, but there are countless amg gts, which is quite sad. In the end, it’s more of a matter of the order of importance.
Licencing and also the work that goes into the cars for gt7 is why we proably have this much less cars now, there is a lot of detail in the car models, but hopefully this means the car list Will just grow in the future i could see gt7 end up,with 600 cars and gt8 launch with maybe 700 cars or more witch would be a good amount
I`d say that duplaicate cars are wellcome in the base game (assuming that the game is designed in such a way that there is a valid reason to have them, through event restrictions and ingame economy), but become alot less wellcome if added in post launch updates, especially when the content updates happen at best once a month, and said duplicate accounts for 1/3 of the cars added, and is basicly identical to the existing car... To echo the general sentiment, it just feels like their time would be better spent adding in entirely new models or significantly different versions of cars we do have, than to add a car that is basicly identical to the ones we already have...
I just miss having all the different trim levels like in gt4 especially for the 80s and 90s japanese stuff, now all we get is the top trim level if we get the car at all
I think the subliminal perception by fans is that the new "duplicates" are just PD's lazy attempts to manufacture new content quickly instead of adding more cars, that's how their grievance might still square with believing it doesn't take much time to develop those models.
i loved it every time when i saw one of my cars in the game. and i also liked to browse the second hand car dealers. looking for a good price for the mileage they have. you just get out with a feeling of a good deal and the satisfaction was 100% there. then bring it to the garage, change the oil or stiffening the chassis to factory standards. and the colour. you may wait with the buy till your favorit model in the right colour was in the list.
buying a car secondhand is allways a story. i found my first car when a friend asked me to come over and help him to move a lawnmover from his company to another place. while driving a big lawnmover in the first time of my life i spotted the mitsubishi colt i was looking for. after the weekend i checked the garage but it was closed for 2 weeks. wrote a letter, so they kept the car reserved for me. after the testdrive i bought it right away.
my mitsubishi eclipse i get from the other side from my country. since it was easter and the vehicle departement was closed, i was not able to get the registration done for my numberplates. the guy from the dealership gave his dealerplates to me for driving it home with the promiss to send them back with the postal service as fast as possible. (not really allowed to do it like this, he smiled and said if the police asking questions i should call him and he would say that i was his apprentice in the workshop :))
second hand cars are the best ones!
in fact i think duplicates can give players a better experience of collecting and having like a bunch of different versions of certain cars can be interesting
and i personally think that more duplicate cars makes a better feeling of actually choosing specs and purchasing new/used cars
choosing from stuff like rx-7 type-R，type-RZ and efini RX-7 type-R or other occasions is a kind of great experience to me anyway
I feel like part of the problem is that they present these duplicates as entirely new cars. If they just presented them as a bonus variant instead of a whole new car, I doubt the backlash would've been as bad.
Another great video asking the right questions!
A few corrections and notes since I've done lots of research to GT, 3D models and different for trims cars actually have compared to games:
Note on PS2 models in GT5/6, some were updated to high polygon spec but with no interior. The RUFs and old Nissan Zs are a standout to that. But then you have models from GT3 which are clearly disgusting in HD, like the D1GP RX7 which has a pixelated wing, not even individually modeled polygons, juat flat surfaces with textures.
GT Sport did not 100% have new car models. Many were still recycled from GT5/6 and even cars added in updates, thus still in GT7 with PS3 quality. Note GT5 and GT6 model quality was far better than anything else to this day. Yes, even games like Forza, NFS or Project cars cannot match GT5/6 PS3 models. I point this out because the whole '9 months' thing was a clear lie when assets are recycled with textures still being low resolution on PS4 and PS5. Sidenote: I'll be honest, the tech used in GTS and GT7 on car models is worse than how the PS3 cars were made and once you know where to look the differences are quite bad.
Do you mind if I ask why the R35 GT-Rs don’t have any of the functional screen when PD created it irl? GT5 and GT6 had them but not GTS or GT7. They don’t even have the shift lights in the RPM gauge…
Onto the main topic: anybody complaining about this is wasted effort. Unless we can prove PD is lazy and spends the same amount of time on a new car than a variant of an existing one then sure. The difference should be model years and different trims. If you research the different models of RX-7s out there, I would love to see them in GT because every few years the car had a new version with new parts. But compared to NA Roadster or S2000 models with no 3D model differences it makes no sense. GT did the right thing here and did the first and last model year of the FD RX-7 in GT5 and GT6 in premium car form. Now if the R32 Nismo had more unique Nismo parts you could get irl then sure (Nismo headlights, interior pieces and gauge textures), but it just has the nismo aero and stock rims compared to the V spec II. If the Nimso didn't have that extra aero in GT Auto then that car would have been very pointless to add. We know for a fact this didn't take 9 months since the R32 GT-R car model has existed since GT HD. The Roadster NR-A is somewhat cool since it’s the base model Mazda sells irl to be used as a race car compared to the existing Roadster S and I think they actually added the NR-A’s options to it. Unless I’m mistaken and the Roadster S already had them in GT auto.
Also, I think we should take note that PD created a new model of the 04 Impreza STI rather than reusing the 05 facelift model in GT5/6. PD are willing to make new cars, even if they (might) share 90% of the parts from existing models. But that’s the point of this video!
Sidenote, you are based good sir with your views and video game bgm, I imagine we’d make great friends!