Canon C70 vs C300MKIII Image Quality Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 21 фев 2021
- Side by side footage comparison of the image quality differences between the Canon C70 and the Canon C300 MKIII. (watch in 4K if possible)
Cameras tested:
Canon C300MKIII
Canon C70
Canon C70 w/ EF-EOS R 0.71x Mount Adapter for EF-Mount (Canon's Speedbooster)
Special thanks to Caleb Wojcik for loaning me his C70s, check out his channel for more C70 content: / calebwojcikfilms
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I really appreciate how thorough you were with these tests! And yes, all Canon's transform luts are trash. I don't understand what's wrong with their quality control on that front
Thanks Tyler! Love your stuff man. Yea the Canon LUT thing is so weird. It's as if they're releasing luxury cars with all these amazing features, but then they don't tell the owners what type of gas or oil to use to make the cars perform their best.
@@ChrisFrancis I like the making a lemonade documentary
@@isaacasunciongallardo9781 Thanks Issac!!
I have no problem matching R5, c300 mkII and C70 with Canon's LUTs as long as I custom WB all three. I have had problems with Canon LUTs when using raw material.
FYI
One more thing. I just downloaded Canon’s newest LUTs (says v2.0 on each). They are not that new but I’ve been using v1.1 for way too long.
For me these 2.0 LUTs seem to fix many problems. Interview shots from c70, c300mkii, Eos r, r5 and r6 match quite well as long as I custom WB all cameras manually.
The LUTs also seem to fix the blue LED color shifting to violet which is part of the Canon color science.
I am using 65x65 3D LUTs with the full to full range. Interestingly Canon omitted the full to video LUTs from the new update.
All this essentially means that for future projects I am more likely to use Canon LUTs because currently I’ve been mostly using CSTs in Resolve as I like starting point better. CSTs just seems a bit more taxing on the computer.
(for those who don’t know)
CST= Color Space Transform
Thanks for the shout-out and was happy to have my cameras be put to the test! Learned a bunch from this video.
Best part is the guy dancing at the end. More of him in camera tests pls.
This is really a very in-depth comparison i have ever seen for C70, C70+.71 booster, and C300MKIII... good work you have done!! Great thanks!!
The lines of the vectroscope “opening up” with the .71 adapter means that it’s introducing more colors around it. The colors must be fringing a bit due to the adapter.
awesome video - insanely informtive not sure why more people havn't shown this comparison online with videos already - very eye opening
Thanks for taking the time to do this so thoroughly
A lot of work here! Thanks so much for sharing all this useful information! Proud to be your subscriber!
A lot of work here! Thanks so much for sharing all this useful information! Can’t wait for part 2! Proud to be your subscriber!
Thanks, Chris! I found it helpful to see where the c70 and c300 mkiii differ. Also, it is good to see you back! Would love to see more project breakdowns as well as industry tips/tricks. Keep up the awesome content!
Thanks @Isaiah! Really appreciate the encouragement
Great job comparing and discovery relative to the importance of lenses. Thanks Chris
Excellent, exhaustive comparisons - some great takeaways and tips for ALL videographers regardless of what camera you shoot.
Thank you for taking the time. This was very in-depth and very much what I do to test new cameras. I did have the c70 for few days but did not manage to do a chart based test for matching (only real world scenario with me standing in front). I think the C70 is an easy match to the C300MKII and EOS R5,R6 and EOS R as long as one uses custom WB on all cameras and choses the Neutral color matrix.
Also good point that same sensor does not mean same processing... I think many get to caught up in the marketing lingo :D. As far as I know the beauty of Alexa, Mini and Amira is that they not only use the same ALEV III sensor but the processing is exactly the same ;).
new to the cinema camera universe, but this was definitely interesting to learn about regarding issues with shooting and matching cameras, so thanks for making video.
Incredibly thorough tests. Amazing!
Thanks for the thorough review. Question: for the Long GOP (I think that's what you called it?) codec, how does that format perform in Premiere when editing compared to RAW? Do you have to make proxies to make it usable when scrubbing/playback on the timeline?
Hey Chris,
thanks for this Comparison. It was very informative.
This was the most thorough review of the C 300 and C 70 and you were even able to find out there the reasons for the Problems are. Another reviewer suggested to not use the Canon RF to EF adapter, but since i don’t have both Cameras i can’t prove or test his claim......definitely outstanding work
thank you!!
Hey Chris, congrats on the awesome video
Thank you for creating such a great video
Great video!! I own both as well and was curious about this because I sometimes prefer the c70 to get the wider FOV with the adapter to not crop my lenses. One thing I would say about switching to lower bit rate though is be careful because this is a controlled light ideally lit kind of setting. The point of the data in my view is for when you have to push the footage harder in your grading for less ideal situations and broader exposure ranges. I think in any more challenging situations like that there might be more of a difference. I just wouldn't make a decision across the board based on this circumstance to change the bitrate like that. Thanks again!!
Informative! Great comparison really showing what is going on with the c70 and c300mk3. This video is simply ja cleverly put together. Amazing! Canon needs to get those transform luts updated asap.
This confirmed many of the things I know but I’m very glad you made it
Absolute gold. I really appreciate these test. 🙌🏼
Very thorough and helpful as I have both of these cameras. In practical terms for the work I do... the cameras match just fine. I might preset the C70 with a setting that brings the camera closer to the C300m3 but that's getting pretty deep into the camera nitty gritty. Like you say, different lenses probably have more effect.
Thank you for these great samples. Subscribed. I hear you about Long Hop Vs All-I - the only quality difference I've found in my work on XT'4s is the lower quality of life while waiting for All-I to download, backup or render. Cheers.
Such an awesome review. Much appreciated
C70 owner here. Great video Chris - have sub'd. I have customised a button to switch quickly between 25 and 120 fps in certain circumstances - but could only find a way to do this if both are long-GOP. Although initially concerned about giving-up quality at 25 fps - real-world - I cannot see any difference between the codecs and am beyond impressed with the look and DR of this camera
for sure, the long GOP really exceeded my expectations. thanks for the sub!
Great video Chris. Super detailed and well done. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Griffin! Really enjoying your vids
Fantastic test, lots of useful info for a DP
Amazing test, very thorough and I appreciate you took great and proper care at ensuring that the test was not biased towards any of the cameras. I’m in the market for my first cinema camera and I’m already 99% certain I’m getting this camera, so this was helpful!
Thank you, glad to hear it was helpful for you. Good luck with your upcoming purchase!
Great job on this Chris! Some solid info. Thank you.
Thanks mate, extremely useful now we have both
The lines were fanning out because of chromatic abberation on the edges of the colour patches 😉
Whew. LOTS of work, LOTS of time. Thanks for your due diligence!
This is a great comparison! Thank you man!
Brilliant comparison + excellent video!!
Would love to see some Canon R5 4K HQ thrown into some comparisons with C70 etc! :)
Excellent comparison. Nice work!
Hi Chris, usually on RUclips I can't see the differences with many testers results, but here I can. It might be even clearer on Vimeo which I understand has less aggressive compression. I'm surprised at the difference between apparently identical non cinematic lenses and the effect of the introduction of the 0.71 x glass was not something I'd have thought of either, so all in all a very useful and well presented lesson in colour balancing for an amateur film maker and thank you very much for all the trouble. A shout out to your talent Khrista as well and I do hope you are all safe and well. The dance interlude gave me a nice smile. Liked and subd. BobUK
Thanks Bob, glad to hear it was helpful. Appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Very nice and in depth! Seems that the c70 could be matched and balanced in camera using the color / phase adjustments.
I'd be curious if the c70 matched the other c70 without the speedbooster.
If you're thinking of long GOP recording, the HEVC long gop has way less macro blocking than the XF-AVC long gop because it's h265 encoding. Just harder to edit.
Yea, if/when I buy a C70 as a B-Cam I'll run it through these test and then tweak the internal color settings to try to get it to match as closely as possible in-camera (which I agree should be possible to get it dialed in close enough).
Great research, helpful results!!! Subscribed ✔️
Thanks Mark!
That's an outstanding job! Thank you so much!
Really thorough, I'll pass this video on to my guys.
Excellent test!
Great content ! Very informative
Wow great test ! Thanks
That was a deep dive! Thanks for the comparison.
Phew! I need a vacay after that one 😅. Glad you liked it!
@@ChrisFrancis reminded me of a Gerald Undone video. I've been filming for 15yrs but listening to guys like you reminds me there's still plenty to learn.
@@Extremehick Awesome, thanks James!! I'm always learning, too! (who knew photo lenses could vary so much in quality?!)
Gracias por ofrecer más claridad sobre estas dos cámaras , Justo estoy en el proceso de comprar una de las dos
Loved this comparison! Been debating wether to get the C70 or C300mkiii and I feel Im good with C70! Thanks!
Nice Video! But the chromatic aberration with the speedbooster does not look good. Do you think it's coming from the lens or the adapter?
Now that's a real test 👍
Brilliant, thank you.
Thanks Chris! Glad it was helpful.
Really appreciate this, Chris. Wonderful test. Is there more information regarding the color matrix options. I didn't even know about those settings. How do they impact the image?
Funny you should ask, I literally just hit export on my next video “Canon Color Matrixes Explained”. Should go live on Monday 👍🏻
So helpful, thank you!
Decide for me. I can’t decide if I should undergo the raw workflow on the c300 or just use the C 70. Help !
Thanks! Would like to see an update including the C70's raw :)
damn. even when watching a camera comparison I can still learn a ton
I love all the tests but I am also really interested in the lighting setups as well. Any chance you could do a video deconstructing the setup with the girl reading a book? The decision to use an 8x8 bounce vs a large umbrella for example. Thanks!
Great video. I picked up a C70 with the option of renting a C300iii for different projects as the need arises. Good to know it's not actually 1:1.
Not hard to match them in post if you shoot a color chart and/or white balance chart, but for sure a little annoying that they don't match exactly. If I end up buying the C70 as a B-CAM I'll definitely run it through the same tests to confirm the color biases and then will probably tweak the in-camera color settings so I can get them to match right in the camera.
Great information. Thanks.
Super helpful, thank you.
Great comparison.. Thumbs up too you.
Thanks Chuck!
Hi, Chris can you send me a close up photo or video of the cable to connect the monitor unit of the c300 Mark 2 to the body cause i want to see if i can get this monitor to connect to my C300 Mark 1 cause my monitor is broken
Great informative video.
I really admire the work that you put in here. However it would’ve been very helpful if you could also test how the speed booster affects the image quality in terms of details and chromatic aberration, etc. Thanks
That's a great idea for a follow up video, thanks!
I was literally JUST going through the same annoyances with the CLOG2 to rec709 LUT. It does make it darker for sure, and kinda clips the blacks. Maybe this is one of those scenarios where we need to overexposed by a stop when shooting CLOG2?
I forget if I commented on this video, but I love this video!
Your video is great.I want to be consulted.How does backlight behave 0.71, Is glare serious?
Love this thank you.
I think All-I vs LongGOP is a bit misunderstood where people are like All-I - good, LongGOP - bad. The data rate allocation is really important. All-I needs a much higher data ceiling to encode each frame with integrity. I don't know the actual figures (and it depends on how each format is implemented in any case) but you should be looking for data rates of around 4 times to 8 times higher for an All-I format to be outperforming an equivalent LongGOP one.
On most camera systems the data rate afforded ALL-I, being only around twice the amount allocated to the LongGOP or so, is not enough to allow it to exceed the more efficient format.
Generally speaking you should not expect to see an image quality increase using ALL-I (unless the data rate difference is very high).
ALL-I can give big advantages with moving detail though, despite the results of your test here. It really depends how much stuff is actually moving in frame / how fast / etc. It's worth using when the content demands it.
Can I ask where you found the official Canon LUT?
The amount of time and effort in this test is crazy. Thanks so much! I can't afford any of these high end equipment just yet, but it's interesting to learn more.
One question though, do you find the internal NDs of Canon to be kinda limiting? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they're kind of like in fixed steps and not a internal VND like the FX6 or FX9 right?
Would that be an issue that forces you to use non-native ISO in order to compensate for 1/3 stop differences that the fixed internal NDs might not cover?
Oh, and you might have gotten Mbps and MBps confused.
You’re welcome! No I don’t find the ND steps limiting, that’s basically how it’s always been done. Great quality variable ND filters didn’t exist until a few years ago actually so they’re still a relatively new thing. Personally I don’t have a problem adjusting the iso up or down a little bit to nail exposure. Especially when bumping it up, the Canon image is so clean when shooting compressed that it doesn’t really add any noticeable noise of just bumping a little
Regarding All-I vs Long GOP, testing a shot where the tripod is locked and the subject/background is nearly identical, is not helpful to see the benefits of All-I. Remember, since little in the image is changed except for her slight lifting/turning of the model's head, then long GOP is great for this particular scenario. If, however, it were a busy shot like a camera moving on a steadicam through a detailed background environment like brick walls, a busy street, or even along the water, then one can see long GOP start to fall apart in compression compared to All-I. If all one is doing is filming an interview, for example, then long GOP is perfectly fine. Lots of movement & action, however, All-I would help.
Awesome video!
Hi, this is handy, thanks for sharing!
If you can use davinci resolve for future color/iso tests.
Cheers.
informative keep it up bro
Helpful, thank you.
Amazing video! Thanks for this! Curious why you chose the 65 version of the luts instead of 33? I was under the impression 33 was for 10 bit footage while 65 was for 12 bit? Also thanks to your patient model! My fiancé hates posing for my own camera tests! 😃
Thanks Eric. I chose the 65 versions because my friend that's a professional colorist told me to always use the 65 versions when available, simple as that, ha. Also, I'll pass along your thanks to my VERY patient wife 😂
Very good comparisons
Thanks!
5:15 Chromatic aberration is quite obvious with the 0.71x adapter.
The DIT community thanks you for your service.
As an optician I think that's the reason: The Speedbooster lens has a coated surface to reduce reflection. It's impossible to reduce all refection, so the coating has the thickness to reduce mostly blue. Because of that, more red will enter the sensor. So we have to live with it, still better than no coating and losing light ;). Thanks for the test.
awesome insight, thanks for sharing!
Very useful! Thks!
Wow, there was a ton of noise in all of them for just being at the base ISO and lit. So much for DGO lol. The RAW looked much richer. Also really hate magenta, which the C70 has a ton of, I also noticed it didn't have as good of highlight rolloff when shooting outside next to the C300MKiii. I think Canon held back on the C70.
Great points
Could the chromatic aberration on the focal reducer be the issue because it was easily noticeable?
ah, that could be it
Very detailed comparison. I wonder how the standard canon EF-RF adapter would compare to the changes seen in the 0.71 adapter.
@joaquin, the standard EF-RF adapter is what was used on the other C70 featured in these tests
@@ChrisFrancis Ah, my mistake! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
@@joaquinbarlow No worries!, Thx!
Is it just me or does the rendering of the face look slightly different between the c300 and c70. like blockier on the c70
Thank you so much for this analysis! I just got a C70 and have been doing some casual tests myself. I've been finding that with the .71 speedbooster and a Contax Zeiss 35mm lens, my image is rather soft, even in 4k @23.98fps. Did you experience as softness with the C70+speedbooster in your test?
I didn't do a scientific sharpness test, but I didn't really notice anything other than increased chromatic aberration when using the .71 speedbooster (along with the color shift noted in my video)
@@ChrisFrancis Gotcha, mine wasn't scientific either so I will look into whether or not it was my lens or some other factor. Who knows, may I was just out of focus! Thanks
Chris: I thought same censor and same color science
Canon: you just got played son. :D
Did Canon in fact update its look-up-tables?
Why did you wait for 30 minutes before running the auto black balance?
An over abundance of caution to eliminate any variances in the tests. In general black balances will be most accurate when the camera is at its operating temperature. When dealing with cameras like RED this more important because the camera gets so hot when recording.
Really good video thanks for putting this together. So essentially, your paying nearly double for an EVF, bigger touchscreen and the form factor. Colour is negligible on the grand scheme of things.
I’d also add RAW and full size XLRs to that list, but yea, picking the C300MKIII over the C70 is mostly for the more robust and versatile cinema camera body (which personally I would pick the C300MKIII over the C70 9 times out of 10). It really depends on what type of work you do and your personal preferences, but if you’re looking for the most bang for your buck strictly on image quality the C70 value is about as good as it gets
That is why it is recommended that if you need an exact camera match to order two of the same cameras directly one after the other at the same manufacturing facility bc these issues are not exclusive to different camera bodies.
How will you accomplish that?
You don't need to record for 30 minutes in order to black balance. Leaving the camera on for 20 min is enough to do the black balance. Good video.
The camera's data rates you're stating are mega "bits" per second (Mbps), NOT mega "bytes" (MBps.)
Helpful video btw. Thanks!
you are correct, i always get bytes and bits confused
정성스러운 영상 입니다 고맙읍니다
Thank you so much Chris for putting the work in! Really great insight into the camera. I had a few thoughts, let me know what you think.
Please forgive me if I make a mistake, I'm just trying to understand : D
- about the Luts, I noticed you used the 65 grid luts. What difference when using the 33grid luts? I heard from somewhere that it should be 33grid for 10bit, but I could be wrong : O
- also about the long gop, in scenes that have big shapes and simple detail, you might not see so much artifacting. Your model's hair was good too even in 120fps. In my experience, I only really see a clear difference if the scene is super detailed, like leaves blowing in the wind as it is raining : D let me know if you have encountered any situations where you have encountered problems. It is definatly great 120 FPS though : D
Have a great day and thanks again!
A colorist friend of mine told me to always go with 65grid when avail so that’s what I did - don’t know the science behind it. As for long GOP I’m not really editing anymore, mostly directing with some shooting so we’ve just been going with ALL-I since space isn’t an issue for the agency. If I was still producing a lot of YT content I’d consider long GOP to save on hard drive space for sure though
@@ChrisFrancis I did a little more research and it seems that the 65 grid are used for the raw in the C300 MK III and the C500MK II : )
also, I guess they should have still matched anyway if they were the same Lut and codec. Thanks for spending the time to reply. Have a good one!
Great comparison! Just one fatal flaw at the end: on a mostly white backdrop, the 160mbps is going to be very similar to the 410mbps. You need to do a comparison that shows something like falling rain, waves, foliage, etc to see the difference and I bet it's pretty drastic!
Actually from the manual I think the C70 is 260mbps at 60fps and the C300mkIII is 810mbps, so it's a huge data rate difference
For sure. I have ended up shooting in the higher data rate 99% of the time as I no longer handle post production on my shoots so storage space is now longer a consideration
If I was still creating a lot of content for RUclips I would certainly use the long GOP to save on storage
Just a note that the data rates are actually megabits, not megabytes - 8 megabits to 1 megabyte, thanks for doing the tests!
I'm new to filming and would like to be your student. I like this video a lot.
Thank you!
TIGHT REVIEW!