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Tel me how base Goku did better than god Vegeta when fighting broly? Then Goku multiplies his base to a gajillion fighting broly as SSB. Damn Vegeta gets no love
In the anime Goku absorbed god into his base but not in the manga. Goku's base by Resurrection F should be at the level he was at in SSG in BoG. God ki all can't be sensed by those who don't have it.
God ki can’t be sensed my normal mortals but people like frieza who are very strong are able to. It’s kinda just a given in the franchise. If you disagree then it shows your just ignorant because that how else would frieza or anyone else fight Goku and vegeta. Goku and vegeta both absorbed the power in their base so no point in arguing
@@joshuameraz2826if you don’t know how to tap into god ki then regardless of your strength you’re not gonna feel their energy but more like a pressure that they feel instead
Agreed, it's not two forms, Goku and Vegeta just hold back a lot. It's kind of like how Beerus held back against SSG. Some other pieces of evidence 1. Serious base Goku was able to make Hit bleed 2. base Goku was able to fight a Broly that just beat SSG Vegeta 3. tired base Goku was keeping up with ssj2 Caulifla 4. base Goku's speed was comparable to Golden Frieza's in their fight before the ToP 5. Piccolo was able to give Frost a challenge even though he was fodder to base Goku in RoF a few months earlier. There is probably more as well. Edit: 6. Base Goku being able to give Beerus in the Monaka suit a fun fight.
I always assumed that they can use the ssjg power in their base, that way they would be able to keep up against powerfull enemies and only go blue when outmatched. Its a mess in anime because is inpossible to know when they do that but its the best explanation That way it explains every point you made.
@@raptorzeraora2632 as far as I’m aware, there is no official source that claims this. Having two bases is too big of a thing to claim without the writers confirming it imo.
A lot of these have a few flaws tbh. Hit was caught off guard and even goku can be taken down and damaged by base vegeta (in the granolah arc) when off guard. Broly was more or less beserk and goku was more or less out mauvering him, not directly fighting close quarters for long or he’d be in trouble. Like a boxer that’s fast vs one that’s powerful Goku was only able to keep up as stated by Whis because caulifla was fighting like a brawler, once she fought better then he was forced to transform I wouldn’t say base goku’s speed was comparable to golden Frieza’s but rather the scene was building up to ssjb. Remember how android 17 smacked around ssj goku in the anime? He kinda used the power of blue to kick him and make him wait until the transformation was done fully. Piccolo just got stronger, in the TOP he was able to handle ssj2 gohan who had been training consistently In short…don’t overanalyse the anime. The manga for sure is more planned out though
@@weeaboo-warrior Saiyan Beyond God is a name that originates from the Dragon Ball Heroes card game that fans now commonly use to describe Goku and Vegeta's base forms post-God ki, not a separate form from their base. the guy was just honestly being a jackass for no reason, you didn't say anything incorrect in your post, he just wanted to be the guy that says, "actually, their base forms are now called Saiyan Beyond God (even though it doesn't matter) 🤓"
He said "If you think it makes sense, then it does" he doesnt care and doesnt look to it he just does it without knowing what he does. Kuririn is basically Universal without Akira caring about it.
.....God ki creation and manipulation is a skill. The ki itself didn't permanently transform into god ki. They are still mortal. They just convert mortal ki into god ki as needed and when it is completely converted, SSG is formed. If the ki was always divine, they would only have access to the red and blue forms.
The first instance of Goku drastically lowering his power level and then rapidly raising it to attack on an extreme scale is against Recoome on Namek. It's a common tactic he employs as the series progresses and is explained by Vegeta in issue 281. As far as the fight with Universe 6 is concerned the two are also notorious for milking fights for the best challenge regardless of the consequences.
The answer is simple. When Goku first fought Jiren is the very example of Goku testing not only his power but skill. He weakens himself not only for a good fight but to test his skills and the skills of his opponents. Ultimately his checking whether his skill is equal to his opponent on a even playing field. In this way his testing if he is truly the better fighter rather than just the faster and stronger.
@@kuru-yami9416Testing meaning Goku, instead of going all out immediately, decided to go through the transformation gauntlet to see just how powerful Jiren truly is. He didn’t go all out immediately. He tested his power against Jiren’s first, as he normally does with any opponent.
theres this one scene in og dragonball, where goku is fighting tien for the first time and tells him he is gonna start using his battle strength cuz he found tien able to handle it. He then comes from seemingly getting his ass kicked to BLITZING tien. Saiyans, especially goku, like to gauge people first and also just converse majority of their energy for when they actually need it. absorbing god just gave goku a higher ceiling as opposed to making his base the same as his god form. this is like him using blue against krillin.
My personal belief is that God Essence "stretched" their physical bodies so they could use Divine Ki at will without the ritual but did not by itself change their base forms, at least not without further training. By extension, Goku and Vegeta are constantly working to improve stamina and efficiency. Blue itself requires such incredible levels of ki control that you can actually use Blue at extremely low levels of power. This explains for example how Goku could use Blue against both Krillin and 17. So whether their base forms got Saiyan Beyond God upgrades or not (and this concept seems to have beem abandoned after RoF) they are constantly improving their ki control.
God ki in base was retconned. There is no way either Cabba and Trunks are in SSGod Tiers in base. Trunks is with his asspull SSRage, but not in any other form.
It’s abundantly clear that “Saiyan Beyond God” is a separate state that can be turned on and off, if you look into it you’ll know that if Goku or Vegeta were to try to turn into Super Saiyan while in the “Saiyan Beyond God” state they would simply turn into Super Saiyan Blue, meaning anytime they’re using the normal SSJ forms they’re not using god ki. Adding to the fact that both Goku and Vegeta can still turn into Super Saiyan God pretty much proves that the form wasn’t permanently absorbed into their base form. The thing is that the fans put way more thought into this than the writers, and this confusion is simply the result of a dropped plot point, originally SSG was supposed to be a temporary one-off transformation that whole purpose was to power up the base and original SSJ form “wiping the slate clean” of multiple SSJ forms so from then on we’ll only have the one SSJ form. Then Resurrection F came out and revealed “Saiyan Beyond God” and “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan”, now while promoted as new form these were essentially perfected versions of the powered up base and SSJ form see at the end of “Battle of Gods” with the forms acting as the new base and SSJ form respectively and this depiction is consistent with the anime retellings as well. But likely for marketing reasons by the time we get to the Universe 6 tournament the older SSJ forms were brought back and the idea of a godly powered base form was dropped only ever being brought up in filler.
@@MyLife-og2kr yes as I said “Saiyan Beyond God” is a state that can turn on or off but it doesn’t stack with the other forms and is essentially interchangeable with Super Saiyan God.
@randomrave6635 the point of the video is that it can be if they choose. So if we're doing a death battle, the fans will use the strongest version. In that case, base form is much stronger than ssj against Frieza and ssj will be a multiplier on top of it.
To me ssj god itself is goku's second base form ( God ki base vs normal base) basically goku can't use God ki in his base without turning into a ssj god because his soul is still that of a mortal so he can't have God ki in seemingly normal base like zamasu ( goku black) does
I always thought that they didn't use the power of the SSG much at base because they had to be calm or it was a bit annoying, I think they preferred to be at their normal base because they didn't have to make any effort. but what you say makes sense.
As mentioned at the start of the video. The “goku base absorbed god ki” is flawed in the anime because Cabba and kale were both shown equal to goku and vegeta in their base-ssj2 forms. Goku and vegeta both had to go ssj against frost as well. I refuse to believe any of them match ssjg in base
They don’t always use their siayan beyond god states tho. Ppl act like goku and vegeta always use their god ki which they don’t. Sometimes they’re just in normal base form
But he did, it's the only explanation for why he could still fight after more than 3 hits. And SSG coming back doesn't disprove it either, as he transformed back into it to dispel a blast attack from Beerus.
@@aka-fusion8909 If god ki has become their base then they can't just turn it off. That's illogical. You also forgot that vegeta doesn't typically hold back. He wouldn't lie about him and cabba being equal in base form or use ssj against frost if he didn't have too. He likes to flex
One way to look at it is to think of Goku and Vegeta from the perspective of people like Cabba as every literal villain in a shonen anime. They take hits from the rookie, then grin and reveal "this isn't even my final form." I think people are so used to Goku and Vegeta being the underdogs that they forget that after the Buu Saga they're literally playing the post-game content.
The problem with the db fandom is they want to solve it like a math problem x form/person auto is stronger than x form when in reality thats not how fighting works. in theory we have plenty of ways where john doe can beat Mike Tyson that doesnt mean he is more fit, stronger, skilled or anything you could literally just get a lucky hit in from him being over confident or taking it easy. If a 10 year old kid is play wrestling with his dad bodybuilder and accidentally kicks to hard and breaks a tooth are you going to run to the computer and make a video? WHAT 10 YEAR OLD JOHNNY IS BODY BUILDER MOUNTAIN 1000K POUND LEVEL? how many people are fighting x person if 3 mediocre or even weak people attack him at once it can still change things. now dragonball became that because it is so form based for cool factor to sell toys that most of the cast has been abandoned and when the tournament of power came out and they tried to correct that everyone is like OMfG! KRILLEN AND MASTER ROSHI GOD TIER LEVELS COULD ONE SHOT SSJ4!?!? HUERB DERPS. Like no bitch they arent its just you are so use to bad writing it should have been this way the entire time. I also dont understand the decision to make the saiyans from other worlds not know about ssj? like they had their own problems and fights and stories I dont see why they couldnt already have been written to be familiar with anything we already know about and just muddied up the story even more for no reason at all.
The most probable theory that I never hear is the levels are just inconsistent and power ups, changing hair colors and auras just adds to hype fights and looks cool. The only character that I can think of in the series that remained consistent in strength was probably Gogeta or characters that don't fight.
They’ve been explaining this since the Cell Saga. Goku has explained time and time again that each form has its advantages and disadvantages. They mix and match those forms based on the fight at hand, but energy is energy.
Saiyan beyond god just makes the most sense. Like they can turn Saiyan god and get the full buffs or just trickle god ki in their base for the spicy boost
Goku and Vegeta both have extreme elite levels of power it's possible that now they aren't done climbing they both have the ability to suppress their power levels at base form and even through stages of transformation depending on the circumstances which Goku has already gone through this when he was training Gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber
Vegeta tells Future Trunks that Goku has a ridiculous habit of holding back. He also tells him that both of their actual battle powers is much greater than what they project normally. This is in the anime when Goku Black followed Trunks through time and he was fighting a SSJ Goku.
What i dont understand about feeling being like "how can a plannet buster hold back at all?" Okay have tou, nwver picked up something soft? Something delicate? Something you can easily squeeze amd break, and have tou still been a abke to pick it up. Or bwen gentle with a child?
This isn't complicated but folks would rather hold on to a stupid theory than face reality. The "absorb SSG in base" was primarily a *DBZ: Battle of Gods* trait. It was outright ignored in the manga while largely glossed over in the Super anime. Goku and Vegeta aren't "holding back" since they're often resorting to SSJ forms against people way weaker than SSG. The manga depiction is the most accurate take as it shows that they did "absorb" SSG but not "in base"
I actually made a ki control video lol, I slightly discuss it hear but if you wanna hear the good word more you should check it out. ruclips.net/video/k6RSXINo58I/видео.htmlsi=eo85XpKGYe6cOHtG
The whole god essense thing or whatever really just comes from that first movie battle. Who's to say that Goku "making the God power his own" Was really him just unlocking god ki as a usable ki instead of requiring a ritual. And because he was so beaten down im sure it would come with a zenkai of sorts, making him more powerful in a "last stand" against beerus. He and vegeta still had to train to perfect god ki after this so clearly the comments made in dialogue didnt mean he fully "absorbed the form into base" I think that just by fighting in the realm of gods, his body "upgraded" to using god ki as an accessible point. Therefore making SSG and SSB "unlockable" forms to train towards. Because he constantly supresses himself even in his highest forms, just to train himself to supress his own power. Hes done this since mastery of super saiyan in the cell saga. I think the "trying and not trying" theory is most accurate and theres no "two base forms" because... The story never said there were two base forms But then again even if there was, why couldnt goku just supress himself?? I think that the U7 Saiyans are fighting heavily supressed in the U6 arc until they fight Hit.
I honestly wish they had never introduced the idea in the first place because it caused so much confusion. Like why would he ever need to use the Super Saiyan God form ever again if he's in God form all the time? followong that what's the point of Super Saiyan Blue if it's just God ki infused Super Saiyan, because he can already do that. I've just chosen to ignore the concept altogether and say he got a power boost from unlocking God Ki, similar to Ultimate Gohan being unlocked potential.
At the end of the day it's just dragonball being dragonball. Goku never starts at full power, he just matches his opponent because that's more fun. If he has to get serious tho he will
The way i c it is god ki is more dense then normal ki so when goku transforms into ssjgod 1 off his ki become more potent and the ssj forms are different because instead off makeing the ki more dense the ssj forms expand the amount off ki
This point of their base form being in God levels naturally is further emphasized in the manga when Dende is trying to heal a base and knocked out Goku who was defeated Moro specifically says that it will take a while to heal Goku since his ki has reached Godly levels. Keep in mind, a base, injured, and fatigued Goku who is knocked out has this statement from Dende
goku has a power suppression issue as most fans already know.. he hardly goes all out.. always at the level of his opponent so HE can have fun and extend the battle..
I agree Goku and Dragon ball character are on another level of mastery over their power that they can choose to lower their usual normal durability way lower than normal that they can be pierced by a hugh tech lazer from Frieza's goon its just wether or not they are trying to fight, relax or just want to have normal relaxing life in the anime base Goku absorbed the power of Ssgod in base stacking it up and i believe that in the manga his base should be in that level already in the resurrection of F arc as they surpassed their limits their current base literally become as strong as their previous full power of strongest form or 2nd strongest form.
Bruh my head cannon is that when super saiyans break limits they help super saiyans around them to break the same limits and go further lile blue tooth 🛜lol
Their base forms are equal to SSG from BOG but you’re right Goku and Vegeta were playing around the other characters are just that strong in Super. Idk why ppl try to act like it’s just such a crazy thing to think you can write something like that when Dr. Gero created androids stronger than super saiyans based off saiyan arc feats 😂. And how would his technology be that powerful anyways? You know why? Cuz the story wrote it that way. That’s how fiction works
I never understood the 2 base forms theory anyways when we were introduced to Saiyan Beyond God the original scan told us flat out that their bases were God level
Please explain to me how cabba being as strong as he is, is implausible or impossible or bad writing? If i recall correctly he was chosen from a stated higher tier universe amongst the entirety of that universe to fight for the pride of his G.O.D. Why would champa not choose someone of a strength that he deemed to be exceptional? The whole argument that the universe six saiyans are ass pulls is actually incredibly weak if looked at critically. Great vid, only problem is the title, they explained the god form being taken in as soon as it was introduced so finally feels off.
How do we know they didn't have to go through conflict? What personal battles have we seen of theirs besides the 48 mins of T.O.P. and however long the U6vU7 tournament lasted? Narratively their introductions suck but within power scaling and in story logic it makes quite a bit of sense.
God ki isn’t innate to mortals They shouldn’t have it by default and to access it they need to be able to transform. I call bs on the anime cause god ki isnt innate to mortals whatsoever. I can argue against those in official godly positions that arent born with it.
WHO in their god damn minds has ever thought Cabba might be on par with SSJ god? I just refuse to believe this twink is anywhere near as powerful as even Namek Frieza in base form, and that's me being too generous.
So in other words like DBZ fighters the base form Goku is way better than the super Saiyan version but if you select settings to turn his CPU to extra harder he's a hard opponent to defeat
They’re Saiyans. It isn’t that he absorbed the power, it’s that his body adjusted to the power. He was moving much faster, resting quicker, hitting harder. He had more force output. His body adjusted to that gaining overall strength and speed. I’d assume that the initial multiplier of a form for them is higher than it would be the second, or third time they use it. Their base will get stronger from the adjustment, but after the multiplier they’ll be at the same level they were the first time they used a form. Long term development of power requires improving their base form AFTER its power boost from adjusting to a new form. So new forms make their base stronger basically immediately, but those forms don’t scale with that specific improvement to their base form.
what?? it's not well know that they like to suppress their power levels even beyond base and normal saiyan forms? and here i am.. haven't watch dbsuper.. lol
I love this video but the actual dragon ball manga continuity just has so little going for it. Power levels make no sense. And haven’t since the Buu arc.
No matter how many times I here it or read it still make no sense to me. Honestly universe 6 not working with champa or vados and rocking in with power higher than buu saga still make no sense. How goku absorbed god ki vs can still transform. With all this universe 11 is the best explanation/example of ki and transformation to god done right. Topo is strong but can transform into god mode with different auras and abilities while jiren is just strong with no tricks. I’ll accept that hoku and vegeta (and i guess gohan now) train their base to output as much power as god and when transform in just compress giving them a bigger boost. But yeah the power level just got way too outa hand that gohan, a guy who can barely maintain ssj because he lack training got powerful enough from 1 power up that goku blessed him with his presence.
The two base idea doesn't actually exist in the show or movies at all. It's actually a misconception made after Toriyama tried to explain the concept of Ssb. It was in an art book for the RoF movie.
@@specialnewb9821 yeah, they're basically the same ideas but two base appeared after SBG because people thought Goku and Vegeta couldn't use regular Ss after Ssb was introduced.
There is no base god sayian beyond god is just that they absorbed god power in there base but still only use regular key and then when using god key they get the god form
So this theory could be wrong but what if god essence is a form but works way differently then any other. If i remember correctly makjinbird explain that god essence was the idea of turning god ki into normal ki which makes sense and probably explain why goku and vegeta don't use it so often probably due to the fact that they need this god ki to maintain other god base transformation because thats literally all the forms they be using these days. No i'm not saying god essence is stronger the ssjg but i'm saying its either above ssj3 or below. I don't know thats kinda what I got to from watching 50% of the video.
For some reason people miss this obvious and regularly demonstrated fact: Goku and Vegeta are suppressing their powers to maximize their ki conservation and have mastery enough of their ki to suppress themselves down to bullet and rock level.
One thing too is people dont realize Goku/Veg just because they're transformed, it dosent mean they're "Trying" Or going "All out" Often they transform to try to make their opponent try harder it seems. An example being Goku SSJBLue vs Krillen. EVen tho he's SSJBlue, he's not using his full power at all.
Goku doesn't have god ki in his base. Only when goku goes blue roshi said goku's ki no longer sensible and hair is blue and surpassed red ssjgod and reached new height. When vegeta goes blue goku black was impressed and called ssjblue as the the form with divine energy. God ki can't be sensed by people,like gohan and others. They were sensing goku in base in ROG, universe 6 and even in goku black. ssjgod= base form coated with god ki ssjblue= ssj1 coated with god ki.
In the Super manga chapter 63 Dende stated that Goku's ki reached god level and the RoF manga it implies that Goku absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan god (likely in battle of gods) into his base. So in my opinion I believe Saiyan beyond god happened in both anime and manga but for the manga it happened off screen
Well his true or final form could probably involve him mastering and controlling his ki ( ssj3 is a form but wastes too much ki ) his form may revolve around that . If he’s just being compared by his ki then god ki will eventually be useless as its just a measure , he will probably raise it past that and have it be higher than god ki or a stand-alone ki level
The Two Bases Theory makes no sense. Goku does not suppress the god ki in battle. He doesn't somehow mix it and or reduce it. The energy is always there, how, his base is incredibly powerful.
This is definitely a deep matter in the DBZ community. I’m happy to say, you are speakin to the fan who created the term “God Essence” back in 2013. I am exceptionally impressed with you’re phenomenal analysis on the misconceptions within the fanbase. You have definitely taught me somethin. Although our connections were in Goku & Vegeta suppressing themselves quite a bit. The misconception for the Fanbase started with the inaccurate category of “Mystic or Ultimate” Gohan as a transformation when in truth. Gohan was in his base form the entire time. During The Buu Arc. Many fans genuinely believe in a nonexistent transformation of Gohan. While simultaneously denying a genuine transformation by Goku. Outright stating Ultra Instinct Omen & Mastered is Not a transformation. I stated Ultra Instinct is both a Transformation & a Technique, back when fans swore I that was blasphemy. Very sad it took the DBS Manga to state U.I. is both a Transformation & Technique, just for them to “believe it” (Naruto Reference) when they outright refused to accept the truth very few of us fans predicted and confirmed earlier on. Due to the Goku envy they carry. Ya know the Toxic Gohan fans who always digress Goku’s stats, accomplishments & transformations and battle intuition. Apologies, didn’t mean to get carried away with the negative. I’m always impressed and amazing with the way u break things down, utilize critical thinking skills and catch the incredibly small and nuanced details most fans neva saw. FYI.. I always watch you’re videos all the way through. Can’t wait for you’re next vid. Numba One MajinBird Fan!!!
I've seen you comment on a lot of my OG videos always with such detailed responses. There's no doubt in my mind what you said is true, I do it for fan such as yourself.
the god essance thing had ruined super saiyan god for me because the whole point of it is that its the base level of god ki if you dont even need it to use god ki this make the form pointless and you start asking why its here from the begining and why goku continues to use it of doesn't need to it is just to show he have another hair color orther than yellow and blue? its just another great form with great lore that gonna be a wasted potential which for me personally its a big disappointment thats another reason why i think the manga is better because it kept the super saiyan god legacy as the one and only base form of god ki for saiyans
If they had full God power in base, they wouldn’t transform into it. Cabba is not on par with SSG. If he was, then Caulifla would be stronger than God and she’s not. People are trying too hard with this one.
Saiyan beyond god never made sense and was a contradiction in its very name. It implies that there’s a set bar for a saiyan to pass that signifies what level a god should be when we have more examples of gods being weak as hell than of the ones that are strong. The only gods that are strong are the destroyers, kaioshins are all significantly weaker in comparison. Kami, Dende, and King Kai were weaker than everyone by the saiyan saga. Shin was weaker than every saiyan during the Buu saga. Majin Buu killed a bunch of kaioshins in the past. The fact ssg is still used in both the manga and anime show that their regular base states are not magically as strong as the form. They may have become stronger than Goku was as a ssg when he first used the form against Beerus, but that’s simply them naturally getting stronger as time goes on and they train more which is normal. Look how weak Goku and everyone were during the beginning of Z and then Radits, Nappa, and Vegeta show up who were leagues stronger. Then Frieza and his elite fighters blew them out of the water. Then it was Gero and his androids. Then Babidi’s fighters and Buu. Etc. Saiyan beyond god doesn’t exist.
The fact that Goku became SSJ against Beerus was simply the biggest bullshit and plot hole that was inserted into the anime, the manga did it so much better. God Ki + SSJ is supposed to be SSB. How can SSJ then have the power of a god? It would at least have made sense if Goku had become SSB against Beerus. The whole fight simply had no logic. No explanation in the world can fix this bullshit because there would always be other plot holes, the whole anime powerscalling is a disaster.
after battle of god, everything is nonsense. Because they didn't Respect the super Saiyan god but they needed new form so they can dumb the godly power and give a blue hair dye.
this is stupid, the idea of "power levels" was flawed from the start and how the tech frieza force used could not be relying on the whole idea of the mastered super saiyan was they could maintain that form without over-exerting themselves or dropping off by lowering too much and finally, I know the DBZ series is all about a more powerful form, but why no one every conciders a lateral or branching power up?
i've always wondered why this is even a thing about Goku's base form? In the anime and the manga he drops from SSG to SSJ. He doesnt go from SSG to base... it doenst happen at all, why does everyone think that SSG went to his base form? in the anime he fights beerus in SSG and falls out of SSG down to SSJ and keeps fighting beerus without even noticing. goku struggles with the energy ball beerus attacks him with, gets overcome by it, falls out of SSJ to base, struggles even more, loses to the energy ball, starts falling back down to earth from space and at the last second before being consumed by the ball transforms into SSG briefly to get rid the attack. The magna covers the events the exact same way and at no point did he go from SSG to base. Both in the anime and manga he goes from SSG to SSJ when the comment is made that he has made the energy his own. the only real argument that can be made is that his SSJ form has reached the SSG level of power which in fact is shown and proven in the anime and manga because he is still able to keep up and fight beerus at the same rate in SSJ that he was fighting at in SSG.
Cabba is as strong as super saiyan god the other caulifa being fused and being stronger than ssb kaioken goku wouldnt happen if the saiyans where like weaker than like buu saga or cell saga characters
you’re very well spoken man, even if you’re following a script in ur vids it’s very well written and you can def tell there’s a lot of effort put into the videos fr keep up the good work homie
More simple theory. All this absorbing SSG form is big BS just for the show, otherwise they would give sensible explanation to this point. They were holding back and lose the fight? Give me a break... After Battle of Gods movie this BS was never mentioned again, they were just simply transforming to SSG.
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Hi everyone welcome o the channel!. I see a lot of discourse going on in the comment section, If you guys wanna have a longer conversation about it you should join the discord ➡discord.gg/FZftwZnBA8
No thanks, better go out and touch grass than chatting with socially disfunctional weirdos over ANIME...
That's why I liked the idea this fan fiction Journey of Goku in fiction used writer completely changed the god form there.
Tel me how base Goku did better than god Vegeta when fighting broly? Then Goku multiplies his base to a gajillion fighting broly as SSB. Damn Vegeta gets no love
In the anime Goku absorbed god into his base but not in the manga. Goku's base by Resurrection F should be at the level he was at in SSG in BoG. God ki all can't be sensed by those who don't have it.
So what's your opinion on the theory then. Is there two or is it baloney?
@@MajinBird Its definitely baloney in the manga. I could argue for or against in the anime tho.
In this video u actually make sense but there is an actual panel made by Toyotarou that shows Goku absorbed god ki into his base form
God ki can’t be sensed my normal mortals but people like frieza who are very strong are able to. It’s kinda just a given in the franchise. If you disagree then it shows your just ignorant because that how else would frieza or anyone else fight Goku and vegeta. Goku and vegeta both absorbed the power in their base so no point in arguing
@@joshuameraz2826if you don’t know how to tap into god ki then regardless of your strength you’re not gonna feel their energy but more like a pressure that they feel instead
Agreed, it's not two forms, Goku and Vegeta just hold back a lot. It's kind of like how Beerus held back against SSG.
Some other pieces of evidence
1. Serious base Goku was able to make Hit bleed
2. base Goku was able to fight a Broly that just beat SSG Vegeta
3. tired base Goku was keeping up with ssj2 Caulifla
4. base Goku's speed was comparable to Golden Frieza's in their fight before the ToP
5. Piccolo was able to give Frost a challenge even though he was fodder to base Goku in RoF a few months earlier.
There is probably more as well.
Edit:
6. Base Goku being able to give Beerus in the Monaka suit a fun fight.
wrong, its the saiyan beyond god form, not base
I always assumed that they can use the ssjg power in their base, that way they would be able to keep up against powerfull enemies and only go blue when outmatched. Its a mess in anime because is inpossible to know when they do that but its the best explanation
That way it explains every point you made.
@@raptorzeraora2632 as far as I’m aware, there is no official source that claims this. Having two bases is too big of a thing to claim without the writers confirming it imo.
A lot of these have a few flaws tbh. Hit was caught off guard and even goku can be taken down and damaged by base vegeta (in the granolah arc) when off guard.
Broly was more or less beserk and goku was more or less out mauvering him, not directly fighting close quarters for long or he’d be in trouble. Like a boxer that’s fast vs one that’s powerful
Goku was only able to keep up as stated by Whis because caulifla was fighting like a brawler, once she fought better then he was forced to transform
I wouldn’t say base goku’s speed was comparable to golden Frieza’s but rather the scene was building up to ssjb. Remember how android 17 smacked around ssj goku in the anime? He kinda used the power of blue to kick him and make him wait until the transformation was done fully.
Piccolo just got stronger, in the TOP he was able to handle ssj2 gohan who had been training consistently
In short…don’t overanalyse the anime. The manga for sure is more planned out though
@@weeaboo-warrior Saiyan Beyond God is a name that originates from the Dragon Ball Heroes card game that fans now commonly use to describe Goku and Vegeta's base forms post-God ki, not a separate form from their base. the guy was just honestly being a jackass for no reason, you didn't say anything incorrect in your post, he just wanted to be the guy that says, "actually, their base forms are now called Saiyan Beyond God (even though it doesn't matter) 🤓"
I swear, the theories y’all contemplate, I guarantee Akira Toriyama himself doesnt even think about.
He flows like a genius.
He said "If you think it makes sense, then it does" he doesnt care and doesnt look to it he just does it without knowing what he does. Kuririn is basically Universal without Akira caring about it.
Think its kinda funny that SDBH has a better power level than the canon series. There they drop their feats more consistently
.....God ki creation and manipulation is a skill. The ki itself didn't permanently transform into god ki. They are still mortal. They just convert mortal ki into god ki as needed and when it is completely converted, SSG is formed. If the ki was always divine, they would only have access to the red and blue forms.
The first instance of Goku drastically lowering his power level and then rapidly raising it to attack on an extreme scale is against Recoome on Namek. It's a common tactic he employs as the series progresses and is explained by Vegeta in issue 281. As far as the fight with Universe 6 is concerned the two are also notorious for milking fights for the best challenge regardless of the consequences.
The answer is simple. When Goku first fought Jiren is the very example of Goku testing not only his power but skill. He weakens himself not only for a good fight but to test his skills and the skills of his opponents. Ultimately his checking whether his skill is equal to his opponent on a even playing field. In this way his testing if he is truly the better fighter rather than just the faster and stronger.
He went all out against jiren but i agree otherwise
@@kuru-yami9416Testing meaning Goku, instead of going all out immediately, decided to go through the transformation gauntlet to see just how powerful Jiren truly is.
He didn’t go all out immediately. He tested his power against Jiren’s first, as he normally does with any opponent.
And then Kale exist steam role the whole thing, Goku Legit struggling and not Testing
theres this one scene in og dragonball, where goku is fighting tien for the first time and tells him he is gonna start using his battle strength cuz he found tien able to handle it. He then comes from seemingly getting his ass kicked to BLITZING tien. Saiyans, especially goku, like to gauge people first and also just converse majority of their energy for when they actually need it. absorbing god just gave goku a higher ceiling as opposed to making his base the same as his god form. this is like him using blue against krillin.
My personal belief is that God Essence "stretched" their physical bodies so they could use Divine Ki at will without the ritual but did not by itself change their base forms, at least not without further training.
By extension, Goku and Vegeta are constantly working to improve stamina and efficiency. Blue itself requires such incredible levels of ki control that you can actually use Blue at extremely low levels of power. This explains for example how Goku could use Blue against both Krillin and 17. So whether their base forms got Saiyan Beyond God upgrades or not (and this concept seems to have beem abandoned after RoF) they are constantly improving their ki control.
Extremely low power level. I.E. Krillin and 17. The strays😂😂😂
God ki in base was retconned. There is no way either Cabba and Trunks are in SSGod Tiers in base. Trunks is with his asspull SSRage, but not in any other form.
It’s abundantly clear that “Saiyan Beyond God” is a separate state that can be turned on and off, if you look into it you’ll know that if Goku or Vegeta were to try to turn into Super Saiyan while in the “Saiyan Beyond God” state they would simply turn into Super Saiyan Blue, meaning anytime they’re using the normal SSJ forms they’re not using god ki. Adding to the fact that both Goku and Vegeta can still turn into Super Saiyan God pretty much proves that the form wasn’t permanently absorbed into their base form.
The thing is that the fans put way more thought into this than the writers, and this confusion is simply the result of a dropped plot point, originally SSG was supposed to be a temporary one-off transformation that whole purpose was to power up the base and original SSJ form “wiping the slate clean” of multiple SSJ forms so from then on we’ll only have the one SSJ form. Then Resurrection F came out and revealed “Saiyan Beyond God” and “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan”, now while promoted as new form these were essentially perfected versions of the powered up base and SSJ form see at the end of “Battle of Gods” with the forms acting as the new base and SSJ form respectively and this depiction is consistent with the anime retellings as well. But likely for marketing reasons by the time we get to the Universe 6 tournament the older SSJ forms were brought back and the idea of a godly powered base form was dropped only ever being brought up in filler.
That would at least explain bullshit like other characters (i.e U6 Saiyans) clearly not being god level in base.
No its abundantly clear toriyama wrote the power scaling of super while smoking hardcore HASHISH
@@maalikserebryakov Toriyama only really did the story treatments of the DBS anime, the scaling inconsistencies are mostly down to the Toei staff
But they did absorb it. It's a matter of, if they want to use it.
@@MyLife-og2kr yes as I said “Saiyan Beyond God” is a state that can turn on or off but it doesn’t stack with the other forms and is essentially interchangeable with Super Saiyan God.
Thank you for making this finally someone gets it. Im getting so tired of people saying "gokus base is ssjg level."
That's exactly what this video says... That Goku and Vegeta have base forms that are simply strong, maybe up to the ssg level from BoG.
@@ayushdeshmukh284 he's saying that the absorbed god ki does not equal ssjg. That's the point of my comment also.
@randomrave6635 the point of the video is that it can be if they choose. So if we're doing a death battle, the fans will use the strongest version. In that case, base form is much stronger than ssj against Frieza and ssj will be a multiplier on top of it.
@@MyLife-og2kr that's literally my point
Mom…there’s an evil bird talking to me!
im good 😇
@@MajinBird hmmmm, cap majin mark=bad birb
It was xalled aaiyan beyond god (search it up), and was a concept they seemingly left behind.
To me ssj god itself is goku's second base form ( God ki base vs normal base) basically goku can't use God ki in his base without turning into a ssj god because his soul is still that of a mortal so he can't have God ki in seemingly normal base like zamasu ( goku black) does
Whoa, so it's you guys saying "subscribe" that makes the button twinkle?
I always thought that they didn't use the power of the SSG much at base because they had to be calm or it was a bit annoying, I think they preferred to be at their normal base because they didn't have to make any effort. but what you say makes sense.
As mentioned at the start of the video. The “goku base absorbed god ki” is flawed in the anime because Cabba and kale were both shown equal to goku and vegeta in their base-ssj2 forms. Goku and vegeta both had to go ssj against frost as well. I refuse to believe any of them match ssjg in base
They don’t always use their siayan beyond god states tho. Ppl act like goku and vegeta always use their god ki which they don’t. Sometimes they’re just in normal base form
But he did, it's the only explanation for why he could still fight after more than 3 hits. And SSG coming back doesn't disprove it either, as he transformed back into it to dispel a blast attack from Beerus.
..
@@aka-fusion8909 If god ki has become their base then they can't just turn it off. That's illogical. You also forgot that vegeta doesn't typically hold back. He wouldn't lie about him and cabba being equal in base form or use ssj against frost if he didn't have too. He likes to flex
@@burnttoast.2017 You say all of this, yet base goku is weaker than ssj2 caulifla in the TOP. Just focus on the obvious
iv seen alot of yt avatars but this is the crazyest
One way to look at it is to think of Goku and Vegeta from the perspective of people like Cabba as every literal villain in a shonen anime. They take hits from the rookie, then grin and reveal "this isn't even my final form."
I think people are so used to Goku and Vegeta being the underdogs that they forget that after the Buu Saga they're literally playing the post-game content.
The problem with the db fandom is they want to solve it like a math problem x form/person auto is stronger than x form when in reality thats not how fighting works. in theory we have plenty of ways where john doe can beat Mike Tyson that doesnt mean he is more fit, stronger, skilled or anything you could literally just get a lucky hit in from him being over confident or taking it easy. If a 10 year old kid is play wrestling with his dad bodybuilder and accidentally kicks to hard and breaks a tooth are you going to run to the computer and make a video? WHAT 10 YEAR OLD JOHNNY IS BODY BUILDER MOUNTAIN 1000K POUND LEVEL? how many people are fighting x person if 3 mediocre or even weak people attack him at once it can still change things. now dragonball became that because it is so form based for cool factor to sell toys that most of the cast has been abandoned and when the tournament of power came out and they tried to correct that everyone is like OMfG! KRILLEN AND MASTER ROSHI GOD TIER LEVELS COULD ONE SHOT SSJ4!?!? HUERB DERPS. Like no bitch they arent its just you are so use to bad writing it should have been this way the entire time. I also dont understand the decision to make the saiyans from other worlds not know about ssj? like they had their own problems and fights and stories I dont see why they couldnt already have been written to be familiar with anything we already know about and just muddied up the story even more for no reason at all.
The most probable theory that I never hear is the levels are just inconsistent and power ups, changing hair colors and auras just adds to hype fights and looks cool. The only character that I can think of in the series that remained consistent in strength was probably Gogeta or characters that don't fight.
Today MajinBird explains "Stealth Mode".
😂
They’ve been explaining this since the Cell Saga. Goku has explained time and time again that each form has its advantages and disadvantages. They mix and match those forms based on the fight at hand, but energy is energy.
Saiyan beyond god just makes the most sense. Like they can turn Saiyan god and get the full buffs or just trickle god ki in their base for the spicy boost
Goku and Vegeta both have extreme elite levels of power it's possible that now they aren't done climbing they both have the ability to suppress their power levels at base form and even through stages of transformation depending on the circumstances which Goku has already gone through this when he was training Gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber
Vegeta tells Future Trunks that Goku has a ridiculous habit of holding back. He also tells him that both of their actual battle powers is much greater than what they project normally. This is in the anime when Goku Black followed Trunks through time and he was fighting a SSJ Goku.
What i dont understand about feeling being like "how can a plannet buster hold back at all?"
Okay have tou, nwver picked up something soft? Something delicate? Something you can easily squeeze amd break, and have tou still been a abke to pick it up.
Or bwen gentle with a child?
When beerus "playfully" played with whis
Watched it to the end love it
Thank you!
This isn't complicated but folks would rather hold on to a stupid theory than face reality. The "absorb SSG in base" was primarily a *DBZ: Battle of Gods* trait. It was outright ignored in the manga while largely glossed over in the Super anime.
Goku and Vegeta aren't "holding back" since they're often resorting to SSJ forms against people way weaker than SSG. The manga depiction is the most accurate take as it shows that they did "absorb" SSG but not "in base"
Finally someone knows what ki control is!!!! Thank fucking God
I actually made a ki control video lol, I slightly discuss it hear but if you wanna hear the good word more you should check it out. ruclips.net/video/k6RSXINo58I/видео.htmlsi=eo85XpKGYe6cOHtG
DBZ BT2 had the best music 🎶
I personally like BT3 ost better but BT2 got some bangers for sure
One thing i still dont understand is if they absord god powers into theor base, how do they still use the god form and hain a multiplier??
The whole god essense thing or whatever really just comes from that first movie battle.
Who's to say that Goku "making the God power his own"
Was really him just unlocking god ki as a usable ki instead of requiring a ritual.
And because he was so beaten down im sure it would come with a zenkai of sorts, making him more powerful in a "last stand" against beerus.
He and vegeta still had to train to perfect god ki after this so clearly the comments made in dialogue didnt mean he fully "absorbed the form into base"
I think that just by fighting in the realm of gods, his body "upgraded" to using god ki as an accessible point. Therefore making SSG and SSB "unlockable" forms to train towards.
Because he constantly supresses himself even in his highest forms, just to train himself to supress his own power. Hes done this since mastery of super saiyan in the cell saga.
I think the "trying and not trying" theory is most accurate and theres no "two base forms" because... The story never said there were two base forms
But then again even if there was, why couldnt goku just supress himself??
I think that the U7 Saiyans are fighting heavily supressed in the U6 arc until they fight Hit.
What is that wonderful song that plays during the outro? I'd love to hear the full version.
In the anime it's directly stated that Goku absorbed super saiyan God in his base but in the manga there's a panel that heavily implies it.
Very informative!! But my man said every word he knew in this video 😂😂😂
You already know!
Dragon ball fans making up more content than toriyama himself 😂😂
Too true, sadly. Ether, he's very negligent or just doesn't care about explaining things about his series.
But Caulifla proves that Vegeta wasn’t just huffing and the manga has Goku say Vegeta needed just regular super saiyan to beat him
I honestly wish they had never introduced the idea in the first place because it caused so much confusion. Like why would he ever need to use the Super Saiyan God form ever again if he's in God form all the time? followong that what's the point of Super Saiyan Blue if it's just God ki infused Super Saiyan, because he can already do that.
I've just chosen to ignore the concept altogether and say he got a power boost from unlocking God Ki, similar to Ultimate Gohan being unlocked potential.
At the end of the day it's just dragonball being dragonball. Goku never starts at full power, he just matches his opponent because that's more fun. If he has to get serious tho he will
The way i c it is god ki is more dense then normal ki so when goku transforms into ssjgod 1 off his ki become more potent and the ssj forms are different because instead off makeing the ki more dense the ssj forms expand the amount off ki
This point of their base form being in God levels naturally is further emphasized in the manga when Dende is trying to heal a base and knocked out Goku who was defeated Moro specifically says that it will take a while to heal Goku since his ki has reached Godly levels. Keep in mind, a base, injured, and fatigued Goku who is knocked out has this statement from Dende
True
goku has a power suppression issue as most fans already know.. he hardly goes all out.. always at the level of his opponent so HE can have fun and extend the battle..
Although I do disagree with them being suppressed in the universe 6 tournament. I agree with they're not being two base forms
Bruh the birb eyes are too pure for a majin, and the voice doesn't match it lol makes me think of Norm McDonald's pigeon.
Base saiyan god kakarott looks sooo visually satisfying
I agree Goku and Dragon ball character are on another level of mastery over their power that they can choose to lower their usual normal durability way lower than normal that they can be pierced by a hugh tech lazer from Frieza's goon its just wether or not they are trying to fight, relax or just want to have normal relaxing life in the anime base Goku absorbed the power of Ssgod in base stacking it up and i believe that in the manga his base should be in that level already in the resurrection of F arc as they surpassed their limits their current base literally become as strong as their previous full power of strongest form or 2nd strongest form.
Bruh my head cannon is that when super saiyans break limits they help super saiyans around them to break the same limits and go further lile blue tooth 🛜lol
beerus 'playfully interacting' with bulma lol really, he hit her
Their base forms are equal to SSG from BOG but you’re right Goku and Vegeta were playing around the other characters are just that strong in Super. Idk why ppl try to act like it’s just such a crazy thing to think you can write something like that when Dr. Gero created androids stronger than super saiyans based off saiyan arc feats 😂. And how would his technology be that powerful anyways? You know why? Cuz the story wrote it that way. That’s how fiction works
I never understood the 2 base forms theory anyways when we were introduced to Saiyan Beyond God the original scan told us flat out that their bases were God level
@@bluecheckmiyaSaiyan beyond god was retconed.
Please explain to me how cabba being as strong as he is, is implausible or impossible or bad writing? If i recall correctly he was chosen from a stated higher tier universe amongst the entirety of that universe to fight for the pride of his G.O.D. Why would champa not choose someone of a strength that he deemed to be exceptional? The whole argument that the universe six saiyans are ass pulls is actually incredibly weak if looked at critically. Great vid, only problem is the title, they explained the god form being taken in as soon as it was introduced so finally feels off.
I think introducing saiyans who didn’t have to go through conflict to evolve automatically posses super Saiyan god levels of strength personally
How do we know they didn't have to go through conflict? What personal battles have we seen of theirs besides the 48 mins of T.O.P. and however long the U6vU7 tournament lasted? Narratively their introductions suck but within power scaling and in story logic it makes quite a bit of sense.
God ki isn’t innate to mortals
They shouldn’t have it by default and to access it they need to be able to transform. I call bs on the anime cause god ki isnt innate to mortals whatsoever. I can argue against those in official godly positions that arent born with it.
WHO in their god damn minds has ever thought Cabba might be on par with SSJ god? I just refuse to believe this twink is anywhere near as powerful as even Namek Frieza in base form, and that's me being too generous.
So in other words like DBZ fighters the base form Goku is way better than the super Saiyan version but if you select settings to turn his CPU to extra harder he's a hard opponent to defeat
They’re Saiyans. It isn’t that he absorbed the power, it’s that his body adjusted to the power. He was moving much faster, resting quicker, hitting harder. He had more force output. His body adjusted to that gaining overall strength and speed. I’d assume that the initial multiplier of a form for them is higher than it would be the second, or third time they use it. Their base will get stronger from the adjustment, but after the multiplier they’ll be at the same level they were the first time they used a form. Long term development of power requires improving their base form AFTER its power boost from adjusting to a new form. So new forms make their base stronger basically immediately, but those forms don’t scale with that specific improvement to their base form.
Cabba is also only stated to be close to vegeta in base I don’t see the issue
Theres also frieza from the top in base went all out against cabba and took him down
Man, Goku absorbs the God Ki DURING THE MOVIE. He literally fights Bills in his base form for like 1/5 of the movie.
Anyone know the name of the song playing at 2:06 ? It's so hype
its vegito vs zamasu theme
Naaa fam it's D inconsistent power scaling.
I was very annoyed in the tournament because they where seen struggling even against total weaklings.
what?? it's not well know that they like to suppress their power levels even beyond base and normal saiyan forms?
and here i am.. haven't watch dbsuper.. lol
I love this video but the actual dragon ball manga continuity just has so little going for it. Power levels make no sense. And haven’t since the Buu arc.
Then base cabba fighting toe-to-toe against base vegeta means... 💀
No matter how many times I here it or read it still make no sense to me. Honestly universe 6 not working with champa or vados and rocking in with power higher than buu saga still make no sense. How goku absorbed god ki vs can still transform. With all this universe 11 is the best explanation/example of ki and transformation to god done right.
Topo is strong but can transform into god mode with different auras and abilities while jiren is just strong with no tricks. I’ll accept that hoku and vegeta (and i guess gohan now) train their base to output as much power as god and when transform in just compress giving them a bigger boost. But yeah the power level just got way too outa hand that gohan, a guy who can barely maintain ssj because he lack training got powerful enough from 1 power up that goku blessed him with his presence.
This is what happens when your power system is not explained
The two base idea doesn't actually exist in the show or movies at all. It's actually a misconception made after Toriyama tried to explain the concept of Ssb. It was in an art book for the RoF movie.
You mean Saiyan Beyond God?
@@specialnewb9821 yeah, they're basically the same ideas but two base appeared after SBG because people thought Goku and Vegeta couldn't use regular Ss after Ssb was introduced.
There is no base god sayian beyond god is just that they absorbed god power in there base but still only use regular key and then when using god key they get the god form
So this theory could be wrong but what if god essence is a form but works way differently then any other. If i remember correctly makjinbird explain that god essence was the idea of turning god ki into normal ki which makes sense and probably explain why goku and vegeta don't use it so often probably due to the fact that they need this god ki to maintain other god base transformation because thats literally all the forms they be using these days. No i'm not saying god essence is stronger the ssjg but i'm saying its either above ssj3 or below. I don't know thats kinda what I got to from watching 50% of the video.
For some reason people miss this obvious and regularly demonstrated fact: Goku and Vegeta are suppressing their powers to maximize their ki conservation and have mastery enough of their ki to suppress themselves down to bullet and rock level.
One thing too is people dont realize Goku/Veg just because they're transformed, it dosent mean they're "Trying" Or going "All out" Often they transform to try to make their opponent try harder it seems. An example being Goku SSJBLue vs Krillen. EVen tho he's SSJBlue, he's not using his full power at all.
sounds about right. it's their "come at me with all you got" signal.
Saiyan Beyond God was retconed so it's not cannon anymore
Goku doesn't have god ki in his base. Only when goku goes blue roshi said goku's ki no longer sensible and hair is blue and surpassed red ssjgod and reached new height. When vegeta goes blue goku black was impressed and called ssjblue as the the form with divine energy.
God ki can't be sensed by people,like gohan and others. They were sensing goku in base in ROG, universe 6 and even in goku black.
ssjgod= base form coated with god ki
ssjblue= ssj1 coated with god ki.
In the Super manga chapter 63 Dende stated that Goku's ki reached god level and the RoF manga it implies that Goku absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan god (likely in battle of gods) into his base. So in my opinion I believe Saiyan beyond god happened in both anime and manga but for the manga it happened off screen
That's not concrete
@@crimsonking4151 Yes I agree it's not concrete, however it's still more than enough for anyone to come to their own conclusion though
Well his true or final form could probably involve him mastering and controlling his ki ( ssj3 is a form but wastes too much ki ) his form may revolve around that . If he’s just being compared by his ki then god ki will eventually be useless as its just a measure , he will probably raise it past that and have it be higher than god ki or a stand-alone ki level
Long story short: Super scaling sucks, Super sucks, and the only good thing to come from Super is DBS Broly
The Two Bases Theory makes no sense.
Goku does not suppress the god ki in battle. He doesn't somehow mix it and or reduce it.
The energy is always there, how, his base is incredibly powerful.
This is definitely a deep matter in the DBZ community. I’m happy to say, you are speakin to the fan who created the term “God Essence” back in 2013. I am exceptionally impressed with you’re phenomenal analysis on the misconceptions within the fanbase.
You have definitely taught me somethin. Although our connections were in Goku & Vegeta suppressing themselves quite a bit.
The misconception for the Fanbase started with the inaccurate category of “Mystic or Ultimate” Gohan as a transformation when in truth. Gohan was in his base form the entire time. During The Buu Arc.
Many fans genuinely believe in a nonexistent transformation of Gohan. While simultaneously denying a genuine transformation by Goku. Outright stating Ultra Instinct Omen & Mastered is Not a transformation. I stated Ultra Instinct is both a Transformation & a Technique, back when fans swore I that was blasphemy. Very sad it took the DBS Manga to state U.I. is both a Transformation & Technique, just for them to “believe it” (Naruto Reference) when they outright refused to accept the truth very few of us fans predicted and confirmed earlier on.
Due to the Goku envy they carry. Ya know the Toxic Gohan fans who always digress Goku’s stats, accomplishments & transformations and battle intuition. Apologies, didn’t mean to get carried away with the negative. I’m always impressed and amazing with the way u break things down, utilize critical thinking skills and catch the incredibly small and nuanced details most fans neva saw. FYI.. I always watch you’re videos all the way through. Can’t wait for you’re next vid. Numba One MajinBird Fan!!!
I've seen you comment on a lot of my OG videos always with such detailed responses. There's no doubt in my mind what you said is true, I do it for fan such as yourself.
@@MajinBird much appreciated 🙏🏿
the god essance thing had ruined super saiyan god for me because the whole point of it is that its the base level of god ki if you dont even need it to use god ki this make the form pointless and you start asking why its here from the begining and why goku continues to use it of doesn't need to it is just to show he have another hair color orther than yellow and blue? its just another great form with great lore that gonna be a wasted potential which for me personally its a big disappointment thats another reason why i think the manga is better because it kept the super saiyan god legacy as the one and only base form of god ki for saiyans
Hey that Goku Black vid comes out today so be the first to comment you hear!
@@MajinBird sure bud
@@hope14359 I remember you requesting it a while back
@@hope14359 you’re a longtime sub so I gotchu
@MajinBird oh that's nice I don't know thank you 💙
If they had full God power in base, they wouldn’t transform into it.
Cabba is not on par with SSG. If he was, then Caulifla would be stronger than God and she’s not. People are trying too hard with this one.
Lil B the BASED God
The truth is... it's probably just bad writing
I watched the whole video, and I still don't really get it. NGL.
"𝗙𝗜𝗡𝗔𝗟𝗟𝗬" like if Super is important... everything is wrong and weak in that shit
if by weak you mean the characters are stronger than they've ever been. Then yes
@@MajinBird I mean the writing is weak, it's not art anymore it's spam, and tactics to sell more merch.
Saiyan beyond god never made sense and was a contradiction in its very name. It implies that there’s a set bar for a saiyan to pass that signifies what level a god should be when we have more examples of gods being weak as hell than of the ones that are strong. The only gods that are strong are the destroyers, kaioshins are all significantly weaker in comparison.
Kami, Dende, and King Kai were weaker than everyone by the saiyan saga. Shin was weaker than every saiyan during the Buu saga. Majin Buu killed a bunch of kaioshins in the past.
The fact ssg is still used in both the manga and anime show that their regular base states are not magically as strong as the form. They may have become stronger than Goku was as a ssg when he first used the form against Beerus, but that’s simply them naturally getting stronger as time goes on and they train more which is normal. Look how weak Goku and everyone were during the beginning of Z and then Radits, Nappa, and Vegeta show up who were leagues stronger. Then Frieza and his elite fighters blew them out of the water. Then it was Gero and his androids. Then Babidi’s fighters and Buu. Etc.
Saiyan beyond god doesn’t exist.
Ur music in the background drowned out you out
The fact that Goku became SSJ against Beerus was simply the biggest bullshit and plot hole that was inserted into the anime, the manga did it so much better.
God Ki + SSJ is supposed to be SSB. How can SSJ then have the power of a god? It would at least have made sense if Goku had become SSB against Beerus. The whole fight simply had no logic. No explanation in the world can fix this bullshit because there would always be other plot holes, the whole anime powerscalling is a disaster.
They just did a horrible job at power scaling that's all..
after battle of god, everything is nonsense. Because they didn't Respect the super Saiyan god but they needed new form so they can dumb the godly power and give a blue hair dye.
I like your stoff m8
tyty
BASED GOD
this is stupid, the idea of "power levels" was flawed from the start and how the tech frieza force used could not be relying on
the whole idea of the mastered super saiyan was they could maintain that form without over-exerting themselves or dropping off by lowering too much
and finally, I know the DBZ series is all about a more powerful form, but why no one every conciders a lateral or branching power up?
No disrespect man, but you came unprepared.
i've always wondered why this is even a thing about Goku's base form? In the anime and the manga he drops from SSG to SSJ. He doesnt go from SSG to base... it doenst happen at all, why does everyone think that SSG went to his base form? in the anime he fights beerus in SSG and falls out of SSG down to SSJ and keeps fighting beerus without even noticing. goku struggles with the energy ball beerus attacks him with, gets overcome by it, falls out of SSJ to base, struggles even more, loses to the energy ball, starts falling back down to earth from space and at the last second before being consumed by the ball transforms into SSG briefly to get rid the attack. The magna covers the events the exact same way and at no point did he go from SSG to base. Both in the anime and manga he goes from SSG to SSJ when the comment is made that he has made the energy his own. the only real argument that can be made is that his SSJ form has reached the SSG level of power which in fact is shown and proven in the anime and manga because he is still able to keep up and fight beerus at the same rate in SSJ that he was fighting at in SSG.
I love watching DBS theory videos even though i already know the real answer is terrible writing as DBS is famous for
Cabba is as strong as super saiyan god the other caulifa being fused and being stronger than ssb kaioken goku wouldnt happen if the saiyans where like weaker than like buu saga or cell saga characters
i still think that god essence is as potent as god form just a question of if goku or vegeta suppresses it or not
you’re very well spoken man, even if you’re following a script in ur vids it’s very well written and you can def tell there’s a lot of effort put into the videos fr
keep up the good work homie
I appreciate that!
@@MajinBirdyes your iq shines through how you string words together
@@maalikserebryakov
More simple theory. All this absorbing SSG form is big BS just for the show, otherwise they would give sensible explanation to this point. They were holding back and lose the fight? Give me a break... After Battle of Gods movie this BS was never mentioned again, they were just simply transforming to SSG.
why not majinBOOsach