Hi Dave, 2 years ago i switched to slicks for my track bike, a '04 ZX10R. At the time i was tossing between a 190 and a 200 rear. I eventually used the 200, so they could set up geometry for me once for all. The reason is simple, 190/55 was a pretty much discontinued tyre, only available in one compound. Sure, the 200 is a bit heavier and needs more lean angle but is also steeper and steers faster to compensate. This might be another reason to switch to a different brand or size, the fact that one specific OEM option is not available anymore.
Hi brother, what tyre pressure do you remommend for my Yamaha R25 with IRC IZ-003 Soft Compund tyres? Type of riding is canyon carving and going through alot of twisties with some knee down action
I do not know these tires. I would suggest starting at 32/32 front and rear to see what pressure gain is. If 4-5psi over cold, that would be ideal. If not, then pressures need to be lowered. Soft compounds generally need very hot road temperatures of 50C, so they may not be the right choice. Wear patterns would present that information quickly. See the Contact Patch playlist for wear.
I have a really light small cc bike. It came with inadequate tires, rear was 80/80-18. Front 70 wide. Changed to 80/80-17 Michelin front and 100/90-18 Michelin rear..the bike's handling really transformed for the better, now I am thinking of going down to a 90/90-18 in the rear, hoping it will make it a bit more agile in fast corners, with the 100 I noticed that the side to side is a bit slower. Am I thinking in the right direction?
Hey Dave, this has been helpful. Although I'm still not sure about tire width affecting grip. As a road rider, I'm thinking of downsizing from a 180/55 to a 170/60 on the rear. Saw in some discussions that it will make turn in feel faster, and make the bike feel more agile. I can often ride aggressively on the road, but always still have about half an inch of chicken strips on my 180 tire no matter what. Is downsizing advisable? Can't seem to find any cons I might expect. Thanks Dave.
Line them up side by side and see how much taller or shorter the 170 is. Then you will have to correct geometry potentially via fork placement in the triple clamps. The shorter width should not be an issue given your explanation of how much unused tyre you currently have with the 180.
After watching the full version on your site, I have a question. How would one know when the right balance is achieved without track level speeds or stress to cause geometry tears? I have a 2014 Ninja 1000 and the stock sizes were 120/70 and 190/50 Bridgestone S20. The front wore out before the rear on the first set. The next set was 120/70 and 190/55 S20 Evo and they wore evenly. I’m on my third set of tires now (S21 this time) with a 190/55 and the front wore faster than the rear again. Is there a rhyme or reason to this wear? Things I should ask myself or of my riding?
Tyres might be chosen on a number of factors. In the case of brand new bikes you often have deals with tyre manufacturers to get a bunch of tyres in bulk for that specific bike, usually a "cheaper" version of the one you can buy off the shelf. The reason can be cost or geometry. Technically you need to look at setup changes once you change to a different tyre. When you talk about wear do you mean squaring off or simply tread wear?
The 190/55 is a remarkable improvement in handling on this bike. On the 190/50 I found it difficult to maintain a line. It almost felt like the front end pushed on the stock tires. With the 190/55 it handled like my 2015 ZX-6R. It holds a line well.
Cold pressures, how much weight the front is bearing via fork position and travel, shock rebound setting. For geometry, the S20, 21 and 22 are different circumferences and slightly different carcasses, each generation becoming slightly more stiffer.
Dave Moss Tuning so in other words one would want to see 3-4 PSI heat gain front and rear. If that’s not present, then that is a sign the balance is not achieved?
@@bluebomberx5 Yes - that would be ideal and it may or may not reflect the balance of the bike depending on your riding style and roads ridden on. Tight technical roads have a much hotter rear tire, fast flowing turns tend to create even temps.
Bewar in mind te circumference difference between the two and how that can change the balance point of your motorcycle and potentially create an unwanted geometry effect.
Fort more neutral steering and ease of handling/effort, the 180/60 is better. If you intend to be aggressive and do some track, the 190 would be better.
Hi boss can you recommended me what tires I’m going to buy . My bike is s1k 2013 stock tires is 190/55/17 can I go up 200/60/17 do you think it’s a good decision
For sizes, you can choose 200/50 or 55 with a 120/70 front. a 200/60 requires a 125/70 front. If you have DDC you will need to recalibrate the electronics based on a different tyre circumference.
Hi Dave! I have a Ktm duke 890r, and I wanted to go from 180/55 to 190/55 (dunlop sportsmart TT) will I have any problems with the motorcycle's electronics? traction control..
1. Do you have a calibration function on the 890R for different tyre circumferences? 2. If not, see if the manual suggests that there is an alternate way to deal with different tyres. 3. If not, geometry can be resolved by moving the forks in the triple clamps. Bottom line:- measure the gap between tyre and fenders, then install the new tyres and measure again. What was the difference? Then you know how to correct the geometry.
@@catalystreactionsbw I changed my opinion... I go for the pirelli sc2 180/60 so not so much geometric difference 😆 I hope it's just slightly higher in the back now than in the front for the track... With the v02 the bike would be much higher in the back and I think to much weight on the front and too less on the rear
Hi mr dave. I have a z1000 sugumi and I’ve change my tire from dunlop read max 3 (190/55) to a metzeler m9 rr (200/55), the bike seems littre slower with the 200 than with the 190 after the 200 km/h Please,What can i do to correct the problème. Thanks
The profile of the tyre is the issue as it is so much bigger and you also moved the balance point of. the bike forward. To correct, soften compression damping in the rear to it sits lower and next, add a little fork preload to make the chassis a little taller.
@@catalystreactionsbw Mr dave thank you so mouch. 🥇 last question please,does the number kg’s of air in the front tire change somthing!? And thnks again
Off topic here, where I live it’s easier to find gold at the bottom of a rainbow than someone to service forks/shock. What about a video going over equipment required to service these parts as I’d be keen to invest. Thanks
Has your bike been setup for you though? If not, get a professional to do that as well as service it. Go to someone that does suspension work, has access to shock dynos and has experience in the field. The only real pain with shocks is charging the nitrogen in the shocks reservoir, should yours have one. The rest is not that hard, Dave has covered the work on videos in the past. Also, look at your shop manual, they will list all the parts needed for the job under "suspension maintenance". You don't need to buy OEM tools, of course.
Dang Dave, you provide so much informative content and give your time to responding to questions. Really impressive man. Maybe you can help resolve this debate for me: Street Triple 765 Adjusted/corrected geometry (w/tires) assumed Will a 190 rear affect tip in and directional changes positively, negatively or be neutral? 👊😎👊
Hi Dave, is it legal in the US (I realise there is federal law and state law) to fit a car tyre to the rear of a bike? As you’ll know, it’s a major fail on the UK MOT. There’s a channel out there where I noticed the guy had a car tyre rear! I’m thinking that horrible drop off when you’ve done loads of motorway miles and the central part has a shallower radius than the edges. Michelin 2CTs were a god send in the early 2000s. I’m sure that horrible drop on single compound tyres must be awful if you have no grip on the edge or proper sidewall. I can’t believe, if it’s true, that it’s legal!
To the best of my knowledge (and it is limited on this topic) I do not know if there is a Statute making this practice illegal. I searched and I do not find one for the US BUT each State has its own laws. Legal statements say it is "dangerous" as a practice. This is a very passionate movement and while old, this article is well worth reading: ridermagazine.com/2016/05/20/tales-from-the-dark-side-putting-car-tires-on-motorcycles/.
@@catalystreactionsbw Hi Dave, thanks for the effort you went to, and the excellent article you linked. I’m afraid, as an engineer (degree qualified) myself, I can see that this is a very bad idea indeed. Often proponents of such arguments cite “sticking it to the man” type mentality. I guess I’d much of your riding is in straight lines, with gentle (large radius) bends you could get away with it. However, the guy who was boasting about this, had it on BMW’s K1600 GT, which is a more sports focused tourer than a Wing. Personally, as I mentioned to the gentleman in my comment, in just over two months in 2011, I had four punctures in my rear of my K1200S. I was running Michelin Road 2CTs and these were £160 a pop. All but one could have been repaired, but I put my safety at a much higher price than several hundred quid. Perhaps the failure of bike tyres mentioned in the article was due to not using the high load versions of the bike tyres, who knows? Ultimately, it is an individual’s choice in the US. You know, in the UK, and Europe, we’re more interested in protecting everyone, due to our mentality and social systems. The article points out that a hefty law suit might be forthcoming if a “Dark Sider” causes an accident. Sure;y, that in itself has to be reason enough not to fit a car tyre?
@@pgVeritas Thank you for your reply. Agreed, I have a Concours 2008 and would never fit a car tyre to this motorcycle. I have fellow riders that see "why" if you Iron Butt and use freeways all day - but still - is that justification? I concur that at some point an insurance company will have to make the call on this use of a car tyre for a given claim.
What about switching brand but same size? Example: Bridgestone RS10 190/55 to Dunlop Q4 190/55. Heard some brand might be little taller or shorter. Should I adjust front end geometry or am I good with same suspension setup on the rs10?
ruclips.net/video/cd31vtfpVSo/видео.html If you look at the Hypersport thumbnail you will see that they are all different diameters. Then you need to consider carcass: ruclips.net/video/72WnOGxX1Mw/видео.html
Thank you! Start with searching the following topics, one per month as there is a lot to learn: 1. Ergonomics 2. Sag 3. fork and shock travel used 4. Tire pressures. That will give you a very solid foundation.
Hi Dave, 2 years ago i switched to slicks for my track bike, a '04 ZX10R. At the time i was tossing between a 190 and a 200 rear. I eventually used the 200, so they could set up geometry for me once for all. The reason is simple, 190/55 was a pretty much discontinued tyre, only available in one compound. Sure, the 200 is a bit heavier and needs more lean angle but is also steeper and steers faster to compensate. This might be another reason to switch to a different brand or size, the fact that one specific OEM option is not available anymore.
I can understand that logic.
Hi brother, what tyre pressure do you remommend for my Yamaha R25 with IRC IZ-003 Soft Compund tyres? Type of riding is canyon carving and going through alot of twisties with some knee down action
I do not know these tires. I would suggest starting at 32/32 front and rear to see what pressure gain is. If 4-5psi over cold, that would be ideal. If not, then pressures need to be lowered. Soft compounds generally need very hot road temperatures of 50C, so they may not be the right choice. Wear patterns would present that information quickly. See the Contact Patch playlist for wear.
I have a really light small cc bike. It came with inadequate tires, rear was 80/80-18. Front 70 wide. Changed to 80/80-17 Michelin front and 100/90-18 Michelin rear..the bike's handling really transformed for the better, now I am thinking of going down to a 90/90-18 in the rear, hoping it will make it a bit more agile in fast corners, with the 100 I noticed that the side to side is a bit slower. Am I thinking in the right direction?
Yes - you are correct in your thinking but before you make the change, check the profile.
Hey Dave, this has been helpful. Although I'm still not sure about tire width affecting grip. As a road rider, I'm thinking of downsizing from a 180/55 to a 170/60 on the rear. Saw in some discussions that it will make turn in feel faster, and make the bike feel more agile. I can often ride aggressively on the road, but always still have about half an inch of chicken strips on my 180 tire no matter what. Is downsizing advisable? Can't seem to find any cons I might expect. Thanks Dave.
Line them up side by side and see how much taller or shorter the 170 is. Then you will have to correct geometry potentially via fork placement in the triple clamps. The shorter width should not be an issue given your explanation of how much unused tyre you currently have with the 180.
After watching the full version on your site, I have a question. How would one know when the right balance is achieved without track level speeds or stress to cause geometry tears? I have a 2014 Ninja 1000 and the stock sizes were 120/70 and 190/50 Bridgestone S20. The front wore out before the rear on the first set. The next set was 120/70 and 190/55 S20 Evo and they wore evenly. I’m on my third set of tires now (S21 this time) with a 190/55 and the front wore faster than the rear again. Is there a rhyme or reason to this wear? Things I should ask myself or of my riding?
Tyres might be chosen on a number of factors. In the case of brand new bikes you often have deals with tyre manufacturers to get a bunch of tyres in bulk for that specific bike, usually a "cheaper" version of the one you can buy off the shelf. The reason can be cost or geometry. Technically you need to look at setup changes once you change to a different tyre. When you talk about wear do you mean squaring off or simply tread wear?
The 190/55 is a remarkable improvement in handling on this bike. On the 190/50 I found it difficult to maintain a line. It almost felt like the front end pushed on the stock tires. With the 190/55 it handled like my 2015 ZX-6R. It holds a line well.
Cold pressures, how much weight the front is bearing via fork position and travel, shock rebound setting. For geometry, the S20, 21 and 22 are different circumferences and slightly different carcasses, each generation becoming slightly more stiffer.
Dave Moss Tuning so in other words one would want to see 3-4 PSI heat gain front and rear. If that’s not present, then that is a sign the balance is not achieved?
@@bluebomberx5 Yes - that would be ideal and it may or may not reflect the balance of the bike depending on your riding style and roads ridden on. Tight technical roads have a much hotter rear tire, fast flowing turns tend to create even temps.
Been running Dunlop Q3 190 rear 2016 zx10r. Just switched to a Dunlop Q5s 200 rear. Looking forward to feeling the difference in handling.
Bewar in mind te circumference difference between the two and how that can change the balance point of your motorcycle and potentially create an unwanted geometry effect.
@@catalystreactionsbw I’ll definitely take it slow and get a feel 💪🏾 I’ll return with my verdict!
@@adrenalinejunkie301 hey I'm thinking of doing there same on my 2016 ZX10R, how did you like the 200?
Hi dave, is 180/60 better for the cbr650f or is it 190/60? Which one are you suggesting to me?
Fort more neutral steering and ease of handling/effort, the 180/60 is better. If you intend to be aggressive and do some track, the 190 would be better.
Hi boss can you recommended me what tires I’m going to buy . My bike is s1k 2013 stock tires is 190/55/17 can I go up 200/60/17 do you think it’s a good decision
For sizes, you can choose 200/50 or 55 with a 120/70 front. a 200/60 requires a 125/70 front. If you have DDC you will need to recalibrate the electronics based on a different tyre circumference.
Hi Dave! I have a Ktm duke 890r, and I wanted to go from 180/55 to 190/55 (dunlop sportsmart TT) will I have any problems with the motorcycle's electronics? traction control..
1. Do you have a calibration function on the 890R for different tyre circumferences? 2. If not, see if the manual suggests that there is an alternate way to deal with different tyres. 3. If not, geometry can be resolved by moving the forks in the triple clamps. Bottom line:- measure the gap between tyre and fenders, then install the new tyres and measure again. What was the difference? Then you know how to correct the geometry.
This video comes to the right time... I wanna switch from 180 to 190 in the back to the v01
Please share what you changed so you can pay it forward for others to learn from.
@@catalystreactionsbw I changed my opinion... I go for the pirelli sc2 180/60 so not so much geometric difference 😆 I hope it's just slightly higher in the back now than in the front for the track... With the v02 the bike would be much higher in the back and I think to much weight on the front and too less on the rear
Hi mr dave. I have a z1000 sugumi and I’ve change my tire from dunlop read max 3 (190/55) to a metzeler m9 rr (200/55), the bike seems littre slower with the 200 than with the 190 after the 200 km/h Please,What can i do to correct the problème. Thanks
The profile of the tyre is the issue as it is so much bigger and you also moved the balance point of. the bike forward. To correct, soften compression damping in the rear to it sits lower and next, add a little fork preload to make the chassis a little taller.
@@catalystreactionsbw Mr dave thank you so mouch. 🥇
last question please,does the number kg’s of air in the front tire change somthing!? And thnks again
Sir can u help me out ??
I want to fix tires front tire is 100 - 70 - 17 & back tire is 140 - 70 - 17 so which size rims is perfect for that ??
ridewrightwheels.com/pages/motorcycle-tire-wheel-fitment-chart
@@catalystreactionsbw its showing empty sir...can u write the rim sizes for me here
@qaziharoon 100/70 is 2.15 to 2.75 and 140/70 is 3.00 to 4.0
@@catalystreactionsbw i go with 2.15 and 4.00 thnaks for help me out big respect from Peshawar Pakistan 👍
Hi Dave i have a yamaha r1 2008 come with 190 50 17 i just boat new tire 190 55 17 michelin road 5 is that a problem plz respond Dave .thank you
Not a problem at all if your rear axle is in the middle 2/3rd of the adjustment range.
Off topic here, where I live it’s easier to find gold at the bottom of a rainbow than someone to service forks/shock. What about a video going over equipment required to service these parts as I’d be keen to invest. Thanks
There is an entire separate playlist on fork oil services covering all designs and methodologies. I do not as yet have a shock service playlist.
Has your bike been setup for you though? If not, get a professional to do that as well as service it. Go to someone that does suspension work, has access to shock dynos and has experience in the field. The only real pain with shocks is charging the nitrogen in the shocks reservoir, should yours have one. The rest is not that hard, Dave has covered the work on videos in the past. Also, look at your shop manual, they will list all the parts needed for the job under "suspension maintenance". You don't need to buy OEM tools, of course.
Dang Dave, you provide so much informative content and give your time to responding to questions. Really impressive man.
Maybe you can help resolve this debate for me:
Street Triple 765
Adjusted/corrected geometry (w/tires) assumed
Will a 190 rear affect tip in and directional changes positively, negatively or be neutral?
👊😎👊
I was asking the same if I shift from 190/55 to 180/60 ... Not only I ll pitch the bike forward but also the will become agile
Positive effects can be understood by comparison and then riding IF your motorcycle is set up correctly.
Hi Dave, is it legal in the US (I realise there is federal law and state law) to fit a car tyre to the rear of a bike? As you’ll know, it’s a major fail on the UK MOT. There’s a channel out there where I noticed the guy had a car tyre rear! I’m thinking that horrible drop off when you’ve done loads of motorway miles and the central part has a shallower radius than the edges. Michelin 2CTs were a god send in the early 2000s.
I’m sure that horrible drop on single compound tyres must be awful if you have no grip on the edge or proper sidewall. I can’t believe, if it’s true, that it’s legal!
To the best of my knowledge (and it is limited on this topic) I do not know if there is a Statute making this practice illegal. I searched and I do not find one for the US BUT each State has its own laws. Legal statements say it is "dangerous" as a practice. This is a very passionate movement and while old, this article is well worth reading: ridermagazine.com/2016/05/20/tales-from-the-dark-side-putting-car-tires-on-motorcycles/.
@@catalystreactionsbw Hi Dave, thanks for the effort you went to, and the excellent article you linked. I’m afraid, as an engineer (degree qualified) myself, I can see that this is a very bad idea indeed.
Often proponents of such arguments cite “sticking it to the man” type mentality. I guess I’d much of your riding is in straight lines, with gentle (large radius) bends you could get away with it. However, the guy who was boasting about this, had it on BMW’s K1600 GT, which is a more sports focused tourer than a Wing.
Personally, as I mentioned to the gentleman in my comment, in just over two months in 2011, I had four punctures in my rear of my K1200S. I was running Michelin Road 2CTs and these were £160 a pop. All but one could have been repaired, but I put my safety at a much higher price than several hundred quid.
Perhaps the failure of bike tyres mentioned in the article was due to not using the high load versions of the bike tyres, who knows? Ultimately, it is an individual’s choice in the US. You know, in the UK, and Europe, we’re more interested in protecting everyone, due to our mentality and social systems.
The article points out that a hefty law suit might be forthcoming if a “Dark Sider” causes an accident. Sure;y, that in itself has to be reason enough not to fit a car tyre?
@@pgVeritas Thank you for your reply. Agreed, I have a Concours 2008 and would never fit a car tyre to this motorcycle. I have fellow riders that see "why" if you Iron Butt and use freeways all day - but still - is that justification? I concur that at some point an insurance company will have to make the call on this use of a car tyre for a given claim.
What about switching brand but same size? Example: Bridgestone RS10 190/55 to Dunlop Q4 190/55. Heard some brand might be little taller or shorter. Should I adjust front end geometry or am I good with same suspension setup on the rs10?
ruclips.net/video/cd31vtfpVSo/видео.html If you look at the Hypersport thumbnail you will see that they are all different diameters. Then you need to consider carcass: ruclips.net/video/72WnOGxX1Mw/видео.html
Hi Dave , I'm influenced by u man . I'm a bike lover and want to learn and know everything about bikes.
Thank you! Start with searching the following topics, one per month as there is a lot to learn: 1. Ergonomics 2. Sag 3. fork and shock travel used 4. Tire pressures. That will give you a very solid foundation.