As a relatively new reloader I can’t even tell you how helpful this video is. I’ve mostly loaded jacketed bullets but have wanted to get into some cast bullets
Thank You FC. Your videos are so common sense and informative. I feel like a friend is explaining something to me in a way that makes sense. You have a gift for teaching. You make what could be a long and confusing topic seem simple. I am not really an internet Guy, but I look forward to hearing your soothing, encouraging voice.
Very nice and concise synopsis. I am having very good success using a semi-wadcutter cast bullet in .38 special with my Rossi '92. No feeding issues as yet, but I find a sturdy push and pull on the lever is required.
Thanks much for your video and all the info. I'm working on getting my costs down on my loads and have started experimenting with a 30 cal and a 358 125 grain mold which I am trying to use for both 9mm and 357. So far in the 357 I have good results and have put my 170 grain in 30-30's worked through some leading issues, but now happy with the results in that as well.
2541968joey - Congrats on your S&W 629 - the Stainless Steel Dirty Harry..!! Either 4" or 6" is still classic. That gun was made to shoot any available factory ammo - but reloaders open up the entire spectrum from light 44 Russian rounds, all the way to full house 44 Heavyweight Maggies. Good rule is - All 44s need to be crimped, and the more powerful or heavier the bullet or slower the powder used - the more crimp is needed. Best to ya, FC
Great video sir. I like the FCD for jacketed bullets in my 44s, but I also like to crimp cast bullets as I seat them. I put a pretty heavy crimp on all my loads, but then again, I don't load any magnum loads that aren't magnums. I love the 44 mag! I'm going to get a goor Ruger 45 LC also. Maybe one of their convertibles to shoot 45 AUTO also. Have a great day.
dadajack yo - Thanks dadajack yo for your uniformly fine comments. You like the magnums for what they are magnums - not especially for the versatility of being able to shoot specials and +P loadings as well. Nothing wrong with that - I don't believe that Elmer Keith messed around with any sub loadings in his work. That's actually why I touched off 200 rounds of magnums as a tribute to E. Keith...Best Regards
I do have recipes for red dot and trail boss, but I prefer to load 12 grains of unique or 20 grains of 2400 under a 250 grain Keith to get the most out of it. I shoot some 200 grain loads as well with AA#7 that are relatively light compared to my 315 grain #9 load. Thanks again.
2:25 Most Auto pistols head space on the case mouth, however cases like 357 sig headspace on the shoulder, like a miniature rifle round. Crimping cartridges like 357sig is perfectly viable.
Another good video thanks FC. I used to seat my Kieth style cast bullets right up to the shoulder and put a good roll crimp over the edge when loading very light loads since I got much more consistent results from small doses of fast powder in a smaller case volume. Also using a bulky powder helped them be less position sensitive. Shooting a snub nose 38 that kicked like a 22 was rewarding. But then Trail Boss powder would have helped.
+jeffie8696 -- Good idea on that bullet seating. I've found that high loading density produces more accuracy than the accuracy loss from having a bit more bullet jump - is one of the reasons flush seated wadcutters shoot so well. Plus the economy of the load is maximized. Trail Boss is our most unique powder - only one that we don't need any loading data to use. Bye for now... FC
+FortuneCookie45LC Just "dont compress it" and you are good, fascinating. I regret never getting around to trying any, that and 2400 but I was led to believe H110/Win296 was a superior powder, perhaps by a Hodgdon salesman? I certainly burned a lot of it, which is easy because you are throwing 23 grains at a time. LOL Boom
+jeffie8696 -- 2400, AA #9, and H110/296 are all in the same category of slow burning, max velocity magnum powders for our handguns. Of the three, 2400 is the most versatile as it can be loaded down a bit in charge for less than all out magnum. But H110 is the go to powder when all out magnums are desired - but not as versatile as loading down from 100% loading density is not recommended. It's all or very close to all or none. That's OK though, because H110 is a great magnum powder. AA#9 is in between somewhere. Then we have the even slower Lil'Gun and H4227 that have applications with heavy bullets in 44, 45 and even more in 460 and 500 S&W. Good shootin' to ya, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC I think I remember using a 300 grain SWC in my 44 Mag using IMR4227 and that load was the one that was the most accurate and pleasant shooting in my 4" 629. I dont remember ever loading any bullets lighter than 200 grains in any of my 44 Mags. I always preferred medium/heavy weight bullets in my large centerfire handguns. It was all just subjective.
+jeffie8696 -- Nothing wrong with that +200 policy, especially with cast bullets. There was the day when all we were interested in shooting were the lightweight jacketed bullets at high velocity. That subsided when top straps were being burned out...then back to the old tried and true cast bullets for best overall shooting satisfaction...Best Regards, FC
Sir, like always, your videos are awsome!!! A lot of very usefull info for new casters and reloaders like me. One thing I'm worried is seating dept. I have a keith swc style 357 mold. When I tried reloading near the maximum of 357 load (about 12,5 grains of a given brazilian powder), the powder didn't fit. with the amount of bullet that sits inside the cartridge (it's a propper 357 cartridge), I can fit only about 9,5 grains of powder. I can't figure if my mold is bad, maybe a too small head, or anything else. As the bullet has only one lube, groove I didn't want to loose it and sit on the lube groove, but may be my only way. Any advices on that?
594marco - AHA!! Your 230 RNs were actually intended for the 45ACP. If it was a 45 Colt slug - would have had a crimping groove. However, you can freely use it to load in 45 Colt - just set your seating depth and do the roll crimp as a separate operation. Good reloadin' to ya, FC
how does gas checking a cast bullets work. its it better to gas check your bullets in magnum revolver. or go without gas checking. can you explain the difference how they work?
Very nice refresher. I got caught up the other day with crimping outside the grove. I don't know if I told you but I recently joined the Bullseye Shooting group that meet every week at our range. So for the first time I am using my Colt Python with 38 SPLs. I have always used .357. But as the guys tell me this is not as accurate for Bullseye at 50 yards as a 38 spl round with a light load of Titegroup and a 158 SWC. I used the calibers and roll crimped to the middle of the OAL which is outside the crimp groove. Perfect for 357. It crimps right in the grove and nice OAL. But not for 38spl. They said next time just crimp in the grove and don't worry so much about OAL. They think it will be more accurate.
Vengenace Early - I've always said that the Bullseye boys do the most difficult discipline in shooting. That 50 yard stage separates all the good shooters from the wannabees. Your SWCs will stabilize better at 50 yards. But for your other stages, you might consider the WC. 25 yards and in is the domain of the WC, and the sharper holes make scoring easy. The target 38 WC is hard to beat at 25, reason that S&W chambered the 38WC in the M52. Now imagine all those shooters using the 45acp - you can catch a scoring ring with the bigger bullet and tuned 45s are every bit as accurate as the 38 at any range. Best Regards and Good Bullseye shootin' to ya...
FortuneCookie45LC Thank You again FC45LC ! That WC advise at 25 yards is something to think about. Do you happen to know the grain weight of the target 38 WC to use ?
Vengenace Early The classic 38 WC is 148 grains, some are double ended and they do not have crimping grooves as they are meant to be seated flush to the case mouth and the crimp applied there. You might even see some M52 S&Ws used in competition - most use red dot sights nowadays. The classic WC also available in plated bullets - typical powder charges are 3.2-3.5 grains of Bullseye powder. Some really like the commercial 38 148 grain hollow base WC - powder charges typically go 2.7-2.8 grains of Bullseye. But as you know, the 45ACP boys and girls have a little edge in size of bullet cutting scoring rings. The classic Bullseye bullet in 45 ACP is the 200 gr H&G #68 SWC or equivalent (Lee makes one). You will see lots of those on the line…Good shootin' to ya in that league of yours...
Thank you so much for your good advise. I will put it to use. Cast bullets are fine for practice but these guys are serious when it comes to matches. Most use precision delta cast bullets. I will look to see if Precision delta makes a WC 148 I bet they do. As you know Bullseye powder has not been around for a year. But I do have titegroup. Right now I am using lazer cast 158 SWCs with 3 grains of TG. Big debate about using .45 ACP WCs in matches vs 38 spls. Lots of strong opinions both ways on that one. I don't know why yet but others claim the 38 spl is more accurate with 158 PD and VN-310 --2.9 grains. I can't get any VN powder right now so it really doesn't matter. These guys all have their special loads, yet I can still learn a lot from them since they have a lot of x's and 10s at 50 yards and shoot a 295. Wish me luck, its a fun yet hard game to do. : )
Vengenace Early Hat's off to ya...NRA handgun Bullseye competition is equivalent to High Power Rifle - and are the most demanding disciplines in the entire world of shooting. That it makes for poor spectator appeal does not lessen that. And the practical boys frown on it as being totally obsolete - "Why would anyone shoot one handed at 50 yards with a handgun? Go prone two handed, or use a barricade, etc. etc.." For me personally, with a bad tennis playing elbow, I would have had to take up Bullseye shooting with my left hand and right eye dominant - so NRA Bullseye was not in the cards for me. To this day, my right arm makes one hand strong side shooting a frustration. Good shootin' to ya...
FCLC45 in the Lee tumble lube RN many folks are saying that they need to be seated a "fingernails" width above the last shoulder of the bullet for a semi auto. This would eliminate the whole oal length dilemma since this would be set by that last bullet shoulder and if starting powder loads at the low end and adjusting accordingly it would make for a safe round, at least that's how I'm looking at it. Your opinion on this please, hope this all made sense it sure did in my head lol. Thank you.
ruiz212 - If any ogive extends forward and hits the beginning of the rifling, the rounds will not go into battery. If that happens, the bullets need to be seated just a bit deeper. If there is a shoulder or demarcation at all, setting the case mouth right at the shoulder will give battery. If seating the shoulder below the case mouth, the same will result - the round will chamber. The Lee 2R RN has that little shoulder. The 1R does not and seating that one takes a little trial and error to find the depth that the ogive will not interfere with the chambering. Best to ya, FC
DDE -Your question or comment is a bit confusing. Best to stay with published reloading data. I'd recommend that you only use 38 Special cases for 38 Special loads and 357 cases for 357 loads. Then shooting either in a 357 revolver would be OK. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
Great stuff again FortuneCookie, thanks. I was thinking of trying lead bullets and I didn't know where to crimp. This video got me thinking -- it would be interesting to see just how much torque or force each type of crimp uses. What if you drilled and tapped into the head of a variety of seated lead and jacketed bullets, then seated them to specifications and then screwed in an eye hook. Then, you could hold the cartridge in a shell holder and pull the bullet out by the hook, measuring the amount of force it takes. The idea would be to see how much force each type of crimp yields and also to see what the minimum amount of force is needed for various calibers and types of guns that prevents the bullet from moving under recoil but not so much holding force that it affects precision. Do you know of anyone who has tried this experiment? Thanks.
@Fortunecookie..dumb question I'm sure..but I have the lee factory crimp die...does it do taper only crimps or can it do a roll crimp also?..or is it fine to do a 3/4 turn in after I hit the case mouth for a medium crimp for cast and or hotter loads like a 357?..thank you!
jndred - That's a good question... And I'd refer you to my video Lee Factory Crimp Dies - The Best Crimp in the Business - should answer all your questions... Thanks for posting this... FC Steve
Every time I load Lee cast 45 acp 200 grain semi wad cutters i shave a little bit of lead off. Once I pick it off it will chamber fine. Do I need to flare the case mouth?
When reloading 158gr LSWC in .357 cases, I often will set the seat depth with a single round so that it aligns with the crimping groove. However, on other bullets during the loading session without adjustment to my seating die, the case mouth ends up slightly above or below the crimping groove even if the OAL measures almost the same. I’m wondering how yours always seem so uniform, and if there is something I can do to avoid this. Any help is appreciated.
FC, If shooting the Thompson Contender, a single shot in 44 mag, then would the roll crimp be a moot point by virtue of it being a single shot ? Yours are the best videos. There are no classrooms for reloading so we , your subscribers, really appreciate what you do . All this lends itself to a safer, more confident reloading practice for many.
Walter Palmer - Always a good idea to crimp all handgun rounds either with roll or taper crimp. Even for the TC 1) the crimp aids in the burn for handgun rounds - not a problem in rifle rounds where neck tension is crucial 2) Handgun ammo integrity requires crimps 3) ammo may very well be fired in other handguns where crimps are needed. Rifle reloading is usually specific to the rifle. We may very well have more than one handgun for the rounds being loaded. Best to ya, FC
Great video FC45LC! One Question: I'm considering adding a "Mr. Bulletfeeder" system to the Dillon XL650. It employs a custom powder drop funnel that expands the case to a greater degree than the stock funnel to facilitate the automatic bullet feeding operation. My concern is that this additional expansion of the case mouth will negatively affect neck tension. Are you aware of any problems with the Mr. Bulletfeeder system?
I am not Mr. LC, but from looking at the various bullet feeder designs, I think the setup to get would be an RCBS bullet feeder with hornady bullet feeder dies. The system is simpler and more universal to adjust for different bullet sizes and styles without having to buy as many parts.
SomeGuyInSandy - That Dillon Precision has not developed their own progressive bullet feeder system for their machines is a glaring hole in their product line. Even their top of the line machine lacks this to make that machine a true commercial rig. Dillon was early in the progressive game and they allowed RCBS and Hornady to come out with bullet feeders that could be merged into Dillon machines instead of the other way around. The Lee bullet feeder is a hit and miss affair, not in accordance with Lee's product policies. I've been running my 550Bs so long, getting the 650 is late in the game. Can't see having two 550Bs, the 900, and the 650 (or 1050) on the same bench. If I had the 650, I'd get the RCBS Bullet Feeder system, but GunFun ZS' merging of that with Hornady feeder dies has intriguing merit... would sure beat just using a bunch of tubes that would be hand fed (might as well hand feed 'em into the cases). I can't comment on the Mr. Bulletfeeder-heard of it, but they can't possibly have much of the market share compared to the big boys. I bought the 550B when it was Dillon's top of the line machine. Nowadays, shooters have the full spectrum of machines to chose from….Sorry not much help on the Mr. Bulletfeeder… Best Regards and good reloadin' to ya...
GunFun ZS FortuneCookie45LC I really appreciate the thoughtful replies to my question. I think I will forego adding a bullet feeder for the time being. After comparing the two options (Mr. Bullet Feeder vs. RCBS bullet feeder die) I like the RCBS approach. It isn't as expensive either, so I may try it out in the future. Thanks again!
GunFun ZS Thanks. I had looked in to make or buy one eventually, and decided I was likely to make an RCBS clone and use the Hornady dies. p.s. Many people who use cast bullets find our deliberately .002" over nominal caliber bullets don't drop reliably in most of the brand's feeder dies. The solution is simple. Just a dowel, tape, sandpaper and a drill. There are a couple tutorials on youtube that show the process fairly well. Show us what you end up with, please.
Some bullets seat to deep in order to achieve OAL. Case shoulder extends beond the bore diameter of the bullet. Would you recommend sizing the case down to meet the taper or crimp groove ? Otherwise the shoulder of the case is exposed with a gap. Thanks.
semtech30- If you are shooting auto pistol, you should not trim brass unless it exceed the max length. I've found this to hardly ever have to be done. If you are loading bullets designed for revolvers in your auto pistol, you might run into rounds being too long. Best solution is to load bullets intended for auto pistols. Seating auto pistol bullets too deep causes raise in pressures, could be a problem. Hope that helps... Best Regards
I have a Uberti 38spl Yellow Boy. I am using 158gn RNFP but I cannot get the desired OAL if I roll crimp on the groove. It's too short. The OAL is about 1.445 whereas the recommended length is 1.477. I therefore lightly roll crimp below the groove in order to get a longer bullet. but even that does not bring it up to 1.477. The rifle definitely likes a longer round. Am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions?
Adrian Larkins - It's OK to be short if you are not loading maximum powder charges, and as long as the rounds function. I suspect that your Uberti with the in line elevator will function the rounds perfectly. You could seat the bullets out to 1.470 or so and just crimp right into the lead under your crimping groove. You just can't exceed the 1.477 as it will be longer than some revolver cylinders. And excessive over your OAL will not work thru the action of your Uberti… Best Regards
Adrian Larkins Good shootin' to ya…I like to load 'em like that also - kind of like frontier loads - ammo that can do business, because we mean business… Best Regards
what if i crimp in the crimp grove but my oal is off a bit. will that make a difference for a 45-70 round? i use Oregon Trail 300gn bullets only one crimp grove recommended oal is 2.515 i get around 2.500 to 2.495
dandude2010 - Let you in on a little secret that has worked for (Gah!!) 44 years of shooting...Whenever I load a bullet that has a crimping groove, I crimp there and never measure the rounds afterwards...that's what the design of the bullet intends the crimping to be done to work in all guns (there are exceptions to this, of course, but not many). Oregon Trail would not have a good reputation if their crimping grooves caused trouble. With bullets that have extended ogives that might prevent chambering, I might measure one round, but that is all. But I see everyone measuring and measuring... My ammo works well and shoots at the range just fine... if I was hunting, the game wouldn't know any difference whether the rounds were 2.500, 2.495 or 2.515. Good shootin' to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC thank u i was worried there for a min. it wasn't much of a difference but i dont want to over presure my ammo, and bust a lever or firing pin.
dandude2010 - It is good you are concerned about overpressure. Overpressure is a real problem if, for example, our auto pistol rounds are not taper crimped well. Then, on feeding, the bullet gets jammed deeper into the case. This will cause dangerous overpressure if the load was a maximum load to begin with. To find out, your first chambered round at the range, you should eject and inspect for bullet stability. And if shooting revolvers, shoot 5 and check the 6th for any bullet movement (which is bullet forward in revolvers) - the 6th should show no bullet movement. I've got videos up on the crimping of our reloads...should answer most questions. Have a great day, FC
Fc45lc thanks for all the helpfull videos tons of great info sence subscribing to your channel I've Casted and shot through 170 lbs of range scrap with great accuracy only guy at my local compatitions shooting self cast bullets THANK YOU!! And keep up the great videos
Range scrapper - Interesting, when we were doing steel competition, I was the only one casting my own bullets then, there were others that used commercial purchased, but most used the Raniers or jacketed bullets. Looking back, the saving of money was good, but the time expended could have been put towards more practice towards performance improvement. Some of the other guys shot two extra evenings at the range when I was back home casting…It all depends on how far you want to go...Best to ya
monsterman27- I was a die hard bullet sizer using Lyman 450 and RCBS LAM2 sizer lubricators for over 35 years. Traditional bullet styles were the only way to go. But when I tried my first TL mold, I have discovered that the cast bullets have needed no sizing and the performance and accuracy was just fine. I've since purchased many more TL molds and none of the bullets have needed any sizing. And the 45/45/10 lube system beats running bullets into sizer lubricators by about 1000 per cent!! So I'm getting the message out to all the newer casters to save all that time for other pursuits....Best to ya...
do you think the TL style are good for hunting in 44 mag. What grain is ideal for that? I was thinking 240 grain or above no lower than 200 grain. Im looking around at molds to see what to go with. Not sure I want t get into molding yet, but if do will be 44 cal maybe 357. Might also do sugs and muzzleload bullets.
monsterman27 Casting for the big 44 is an excellent place to start bullet casting. The Lee 240TL SWC would be a fine hunting bullet. chances are high that you will not need any sizing and then the 45/45/10 system to lube - then load 'em and shoot 'em. A two cavity mold will probably do for your needs unless you plan on shooting lots of bullets. That 240 TL will also serve very well driven at any or all velocity levels you desire... Best to ya....
I'm so good that i can put a medium crimp on a jellybean & not even squish it...🤠,, just kidding,, i enjoyed the video, it was very informative,, thanx mr.fortune cookie...
Hi, I just ordered my first batch of Hi-Tek coated Hard Cast lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Company, for my 10mm. They are supposed to be 18 BHN. I asked the person on the phone if I could load those bullets to full 10mm pressures. He said for sure I’d have no problem. I’m skeptical, because 10mm load data for jacketed bullets can be up around the 37,000 PSI range. My goal was to have full power 10mm loads for bear protection, because I frequent the outdoors where bears are regularly present. We commonly buy Buffalo Bore, Underwood Ammo, and other brands that advertise high velocities, upwards of 1200 FPS, for 220 gr, and higher for 200 gr with their Hard Cast Bullets. Do you believe that these 18 BHN bullets can be loaded to safely operate within the same range of pressures the available data shows for jacketed bullets?
@John Beige Unproven? Risking my life? Obviously you aren't qualified to answer my question, because you have zero experience with using the product. If you are that afraid for your life, don't even shoot or reload, too risky for you.
GunFun ZS And those rifle FCDs are really cool the way they work…sounds like someone needs to do a video on Lee FCDs…Thanks for your valuable comments….
As a relatively new reloader I can’t even tell you how helpful this video is. I’ve mostly loaded jacketed bullets but have wanted to get into some cast bullets
Thank You FC. Your videos are so common sense and informative. I feel like a friend is explaining something to me in a way that makes sense. You have a gift for teaching. You make what could be a long and confusing topic seem simple. I am not really an internet Guy, but I look forward to hearing your soothing, encouraging voice.
Timeless video. Thanks for the great information.
Your explanations are ALWAYS the best. Thanks!
Very good and thorough video for the crimp. Big pimpin' crimpin'!
The more I learn the more questions I have thanks for the video and information
Great job! I learn a great deal from your channel. Thanks, and happy shooting.
therealrg - and thanks to you for taking the time to post. Best Regards to you
Very nice and concise synopsis. I am having very good success using a semi-wadcutter cast bullet in .38 special with my Rossi '92. No feeding issues as yet, but I find a sturdy push and pull on the lever is required.
Very good info. Thanks again.
1717jbs And thank you for taking the time to post - your comments are appreciated...
Words of wisdom - have a nice day...
Great info, i'm enjoying all the FC videos!!!!
Thanks much for your video and all the info. I'm working on getting my costs down on my loads and have started experimenting with a 30 cal and a 358 125 grain mold which I am trying to use for both 9mm and 357. So far in the 357 I have good results and have put my 170 grain in 30-30's worked through some leading issues, but now happy with the results in that as well.
+Daniel Voss -- Thanks for posting, and congrats on your success with the 30 and 358 molds... Good shootin' to ya, FC
Nice one, Professore...points well taken and explained so even I can understand them. Happy Shooting, FC45LC!
Thank you for doing this!
Excellent video!. Answered all of my questions also.
The Kentucky Woodsman - And thank you for taking the time to post comment... Have a great day, FC
Good video and thanks for the information. I'm just starting to reload for my S&W 629 so look forward to learning from your videos, thanks
2541968joey - Congrats on your S&W 629 - the Stainless Steel Dirty Harry..!! Either 4" or 6" is still classic. That gun was made to shoot any available factory ammo - but reloaders open up the entire spectrum from light 44 Russian rounds, all the way to full house 44 Heavyweight Maggies. Good rule is - All 44s need to be crimped, and the more powerful or heavier the bullet or slower the powder used - the more crimp is needed. Best to ya, FC
Best explanation on youtube
I'm learning so much from you, FC...Thanks!!
Steve Shooter - Thanks for posting, Steve and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to ya..!! FC
Great video sir. I like the FCD for jacketed bullets in my 44s, but I also like to crimp cast bullets as I seat them. I put a pretty heavy crimp on all my loads, but then again, I don't load any magnum loads that aren't magnums. I love the 44 mag! I'm going to get a goor Ruger 45 LC also. Maybe one of their convertibles to shoot 45 AUTO also. Have a great day.
dadajack yo - Thanks dadajack yo for your uniformly fine comments. You like the magnums for what they are magnums - not especially for the versatility of being able to shoot specials and +P loadings as well. Nothing wrong with that - I don't believe that Elmer Keith messed around with any sub loadings in his work. That's actually why I touched off 200 rounds of magnums as a tribute to E. Keith...Best Regards
I do have recipes for red dot and trail boss, but I prefer to load 12 grains of unique or 20 grains of 2400 under a 250 grain Keith to get the most out of it. I shoot some 200 grain loads as well with AA#7 that are relatively light compared to my 315 grain #9 load. Thanks again.
2:25
Most Auto pistols head space on the case mouth, however cases like 357 sig headspace on the shoulder, like a miniature rifle round.
Crimping cartridges like 357sig is perfectly viable.
I have used LEE liquid ALOX lube on regular standard bullets and it seems to work just fine.
Another good video thanks FC. I used to seat my Kieth style cast bullets right up to the shoulder and put a good roll crimp over the edge when loading very light loads since I got much more consistent results from small doses of fast powder in a smaller case volume. Also using a bulky powder helped them be less position sensitive. Shooting a snub nose 38 that kicked like a 22 was rewarding. But then Trail Boss powder would have helped.
+jeffie8696 -- Good idea on that bullet seating. I've found that high loading density produces more accuracy than the accuracy loss from having a bit more bullet jump - is one of the reasons flush seated wadcutters shoot so well. Plus the economy of the load is maximized. Trail Boss is our most unique powder - only one that we don't need any loading data to use. Bye for now... FC
+FortuneCookie45LC Just "dont compress it" and you are good, fascinating. I regret never getting around to trying any, that and 2400 but I was led to believe H110/Win296 was a superior powder, perhaps by a Hodgdon salesman? I certainly burned a lot of it, which is easy because you are throwing 23 grains at a time. LOL Boom
+jeffie8696 -- 2400, AA #9, and H110/296 are all in the same category of slow burning, max velocity magnum powders for our handguns. Of the three, 2400 is the most versatile as it can be loaded down a bit in charge for less than all out magnum. But H110 is the go to powder when all out magnums are desired - but not as versatile as loading down from 100% loading density is not recommended. It's all or very close to all or none. That's OK though, because H110 is a great magnum powder. AA#9 is in between somewhere. Then we have the even slower Lil'Gun and H4227 that have applications with heavy bullets in 44, 45 and even more in 460 and 500 S&W. Good shootin' to ya, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC I think I remember using a 300 grain SWC in my 44 Mag using IMR4227 and that load was the one that was the most accurate and pleasant shooting in my 4" 629. I dont remember ever loading any bullets lighter than 200 grains in any of my 44 Mags. I always preferred medium/heavy weight bullets in my large centerfire handguns. It was all just subjective.
+jeffie8696 -- Nothing wrong with that +200 policy, especially with cast bullets. There was the day when all we were interested in shooting were the lightweight jacketed bullets at high velocity. That subsided when top straps were being burned out...then back to the old tried and true cast bullets for best overall shooting satisfaction...Best Regards, FC
FC45LC Thank you SO much for this video it was awesome and explained much of what I had questions about. You are better than WIKI
+budlight143 -- That's an amazing comment...I thank you for it..Best Regards, FC
Sir, like always, your videos are awsome!!! A lot of very usefull info for new casters and reloaders like me. One thing I'm worried is seating dept. I have a keith swc style 357 mold. When I tried reloading near the maximum of 357 load (about 12,5 grains of a given brazilian powder), the powder didn't fit. with the amount of bullet that sits inside the cartridge (it's a propper 357 cartridge), I can fit only about 9,5 grains of powder.
I can't figure if my mold is bad, maybe a too small head, or anything else. As the bullet has only one lube, groove I didn't want to loose it and sit on the lube groove, but may be my only way. Any advices on that?
Thanks for video.
One question, shold I wather quench 44 mag 200 gr bullets from whell veight for a better hardnes???
I purchased some cast 45 230 RN. Intended for 45 colt. But there is no crimping groove. Can I still use them for 45 colt?
594marco - AHA!! Your 230 RNs were actually intended for the 45ACP. If it was a 45 Colt slug - would have had a crimping groove. However, you can freely use it to load in 45 Colt - just set your seating depth and do the roll crimp as a separate operation. Good reloadin' to ya, FC
how does gas checking a cast bullets work. its it better to gas check your bullets in magnum revolver. or go without gas checking. can you explain the difference how they work?
Very nice refresher. I got caught up the other day with crimping outside the grove.
I don't know if I told you but I recently joined the Bullseye Shooting group that meet every week at our range. So for the first time I am using my Colt Python with 38 SPLs. I have always used .357. But as the guys tell me this is not as accurate for Bullseye at 50 yards as a 38 spl round with a light load of Titegroup and a 158 SWC. I used the calibers and roll crimped to the middle of the OAL which is outside the crimp groove. Perfect for 357. It crimps right in the grove and nice OAL. But not for 38spl. They said next time just crimp in the grove and don't worry so much about OAL. They think it will be more accurate.
Vengenace Early - I've always said that the Bullseye boys do the most difficult discipline in shooting. That 50 yard stage separates all the good shooters from the wannabees. Your SWCs will stabilize better at 50 yards. But for your other stages, you might consider the WC. 25 yards and in is the domain of the WC, and the sharper holes make scoring easy. The target 38 WC is hard to beat at 25, reason that S&W chambered the 38WC in the M52. Now imagine all those shooters using the 45acp - you can catch a scoring ring with the bigger bullet and tuned 45s are every bit as accurate as the 38 at any range. Best Regards and Good Bullseye shootin' to ya...
FortuneCookie45LC
Thank You again FC45LC ! That WC advise at 25 yards is something to think about. Do you happen to know the grain weight of the target 38 WC to use ?
Vengenace Early The classic 38 WC is 148 grains, some are double ended and they do not have crimping grooves as they are meant to be seated flush to the case mouth and the crimp applied there. You might even see some M52 S&Ws used in competition - most use red dot sights nowadays. The classic WC also available in plated bullets - typical powder charges are 3.2-3.5 grains of Bullseye powder. Some really like the commercial 38 148 grain hollow base WC - powder charges typically go 2.7-2.8 grains of Bullseye. But as you know, the 45ACP boys and girls have a little edge in size of bullet cutting scoring rings. The classic Bullseye bullet in 45 ACP is the 200 gr H&G #68 SWC or equivalent (Lee makes one). You will see lots of those on the line…Good shootin' to ya in that league of yours...
Thank you so much for your good advise. I will put it to use. Cast bullets are fine for practice but these guys are serious when it comes to matches. Most use precision delta cast bullets. I will look to see if Precision delta makes a WC 148 I bet they do. As you know Bullseye powder has not been around for a year. But I do have titegroup. Right now I am using lazer cast 158 SWCs with 3 grains of TG. Big debate about using .45 ACP WCs in matches vs 38 spls. Lots of strong opinions both ways on that one. I don't know why yet but others claim the 38 spl is more accurate with 158 PD and VN-310 --2.9 grains. I can't get any VN powder right now so it really doesn't matter. These guys all have their special loads, yet I can still learn a lot from them since they have a lot of x's and 10s at 50 yards and shoot a 295. Wish me luck, its a fun yet hard game to do. : )
Vengenace Early Hat's off to ya...NRA handgun Bullseye competition is equivalent to High Power Rifle - and are the most demanding disciplines in the entire world of shooting. That it makes for poor spectator appeal does not lessen that. And the practical boys frown on it as being totally obsolete - "Why would anyone shoot one handed at 50 yards with a handgun? Go prone two handed, or use a barricade, etc. etc.." For me personally, with a bad tennis playing elbow, I would have had to take up Bullseye shooting with my left hand and right eye dominant - so NRA Bullseye was not in the cards for me. To this day, my right arm makes one hand strong side shooting a frustration. Good shootin' to ya...
Well done
Dear FC45LC, do you think LEE MOLD TL452-230-2R bullets are safe to use in my Henry Big Boy 45LC ??
FCLC45 in the Lee tumble lube RN many folks are saying that they need to be seated a "fingernails" width above the last shoulder of the bullet for a semi auto. This would eliminate the whole oal length dilemma since this would be set by that last bullet shoulder and if starting powder loads at the low end and adjusting accordingly it would make for a safe round, at least that's how I'm looking at it. Your opinion on this please, hope this all made sense it sure did in my head lol. Thank you.
ruiz212 - If any ogive extends forward and hits the beginning of the rifling, the rounds will not go into battery. If that happens, the bullets need to be seated just a bit deeper. If there is a shoulder or demarcation at all, setting the case mouth right at the shoulder will give battery. If seating the shoulder below the case mouth, the same will result - the round will chamber. The Lee 2R RN has that little shoulder. The 1R does not and seating that one takes a little trial and error to find the depth that the ogive will not interfere with the chambering. Best to ya, FC
If you seat a bullet deeper 1560 vs 1590 overall length with a light load 357 revolver would you be at risk
DDE -Your question or comment is a bit confusing. Best to stay with published reloading data. I'd recommend that you only use 38 Special cases for 38 Special loads and 357 cases for 357 loads. Then shooting either in a 357 revolver would be OK. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
Great stuff again FortuneCookie, thanks. I was thinking of trying lead bullets and I didn't know where to crimp. This video got me thinking -- it would be interesting to see just how much torque or force each type of crimp uses. What if you drilled and tapped into the head of a variety of seated lead and jacketed bullets, then seated them to specifications and then screwed in an eye hook. Then, you could hold the cartridge in a shell holder and pull the bullet out by the hook, measuring the amount of force it takes. The idea would be to see how much force each type of crimp yields and also to see what the minimum amount of force is needed for various calibers and types of guns that prevents the bullet from moving under recoil but not so much holding force that it affects precision. Do you know of anyone who has tried this experiment? Thanks.
@Fortunecookie..dumb question I'm sure..but I have the lee factory crimp die...does it do taper only crimps or can it do a roll crimp also?..or is it fine to do a 3/4 turn in after I hit the case mouth for a medium crimp for cast and or hotter loads like a 357?..thank you!
jndred - That's a good question... And I'd refer you to my video Lee Factory Crimp Dies - The Best Crimp in the Business - should answer all your questions... Thanks for posting this... FC Steve
Every time I load Lee cast 45 acp 200 grain semi wad cutters i shave a little bit of lead off. Once I pick it off it will chamber fine. Do I need to flare the case mouth?
The case mouth needs to be flared, or flared more if you already are doing so.
When reloading 158gr LSWC in .357 cases, I often will set the seat depth with a single round so that it aligns with the crimping groove. However, on other bullets during the loading session without adjustment to my seating die, the case mouth ends up slightly above or below the crimping groove even if the OAL measures almost the same. I’m wondering how yours always seem so uniform, and if there is something I can do to avoid this. Any help is appreciated.
Make sure all your cases are very close to the same length, at least sort your brass by brand and lot.
FC, If shooting the Thompson Contender, a single shot in 44 mag, then would the roll crimp be a moot point by virtue of it being a single shot ? Yours are the best videos. There are no classrooms for reloading so we , your subscribers, really appreciate what you do . All this lends itself to a safer, more confident reloading practice for many.
Walter Palmer - Always a good idea to crimp all handgun rounds either with roll or taper crimp. Even for the TC 1) the crimp aids in the burn for handgun rounds - not a problem in rifle rounds where neck tension is crucial 2) Handgun ammo integrity requires crimps 3) ammo may very well be fired in other handguns where crimps are needed. Rifle reloading is usually specific to the rifle. We may very well have more than one handgun for the rounds being loaded. Best to ya, FC
I may have missed it. But what about a factory crimp for a 9mm semi auto. Using a 125 grain round nose.
Great video FC45LC! One Question: I'm considering adding a "Mr. Bulletfeeder" system to the Dillon XL650. It employs a custom powder drop funnel that expands the case to a greater degree than the stock funnel to facilitate the automatic bullet feeding operation. My concern is that this additional expansion of the case mouth will negatively affect neck tension. Are you aware of any problems with the Mr. Bulletfeeder system?
I am not Mr. LC, but from looking at the various bullet feeder designs, I think the setup to get would be an RCBS bullet feeder with hornady bullet feeder dies. The system is simpler and more universal to adjust for different bullet sizes and styles without having to buy as many parts.
SomeGuyInSandy - That Dillon Precision has not developed their own progressive bullet feeder system for their machines is a glaring hole in their product line. Even their top of the line machine lacks this to make that machine a true commercial rig. Dillon was early in the progressive game and they allowed RCBS and Hornady to come out with bullet feeders that could be merged into Dillon machines instead of the other way around. The Lee bullet feeder is a hit and miss affair, not in accordance with Lee's product policies. I've been running my 550Bs so long, getting the 650 is late in the game. Can't see having two 550Bs, the 900, and the 650 (or 1050) on the same bench. If I had the 650, I'd get the RCBS Bullet Feeder system, but GunFun ZS' merging of that with Hornady feeder dies has intriguing merit... would sure beat just using a bunch of tubes that would be hand fed (might as well hand feed 'em into the cases). I can't comment on the Mr. Bulletfeeder-heard of it, but they can't possibly have much of the market share compared to the big boys. I bought the 550B when it was Dillon's top of the line machine. Nowadays, shooters have the full spectrum of machines to chose from….Sorry not much help on the Mr. Bulletfeeder… Best Regards and good reloadin' to ya...
GunFun ZS FortuneCookie45LC I really appreciate the thoughtful replies to my question. I think I will forego adding a bullet feeder for the time being. After comparing the two options (Mr. Bullet Feeder vs. RCBS bullet feeder die) I like the RCBS approach. It isn't as expensive either, so I may try it out in the future. Thanks again!
GunFun ZS Thanks. I had looked in to make or buy one eventually, and decided I was likely to make an RCBS clone and use the Hornady dies. p.s. Many people who use cast bullets find our deliberately .002" over nominal caliber bullets don't drop reliably in most of the brand's feeder dies. The solution is simple. Just a dowel, tape, sandpaper and a drill. There are a couple tutorials on youtube that show the process fairly well.
Show us what you end up with, please.
Some bullets seat to deep in order to achieve OAL. Case shoulder extends beond the bore diameter of the bullet. Would you recommend sizing the case down to meet the taper or crimp groove ? Otherwise the shoulder of the case is exposed with a gap. Thanks.
semtech30- If you are shooting auto pistol, you should not trim brass unless it exceed the max length. I've found this to hardly ever have to be done. If you are loading bullets designed for revolvers in your auto pistol, you might run into rounds being too long. Best solution is to load bullets intended for auto pistols. Seating auto pistol bullets too deep causes raise in pressures, could be a problem. Hope that helps... Best Regards
I have a Uberti 38spl Yellow Boy. I am using 158gn RNFP but I cannot get the desired OAL if I roll crimp on the groove. It's too short. The OAL is about 1.445 whereas the recommended length is 1.477. I therefore lightly roll crimp below the groove in order to get a longer bullet. but even that does not bring it up to 1.477. The rifle definitely likes a longer round. Am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions?
Adrian Larkins - It's OK to be short if you are not loading maximum powder charges, and as long as the rounds function. I suspect that your Uberti with the in line elevator will function the rounds perfectly. You could seat the bullets out to 1.470 or so and just crimp right into the lead under your crimping groove. You just can't exceed the 1.477 as it will be longer than some revolver cylinders. And excessive over your OAL will not work thru the action of your Uberti… Best Regards
FortuneCookie45LC Thanks for your advise. I am loading fairly heavy charges but there are no signs whatsoever of excessive pressure.
Adrian Larkins Good shootin' to ya…I like to load 'em like that also - kind of like frontier loads - ammo that can do business, because we mean business… Best Regards
what if i crimp in the crimp grove but my oal is off a bit. will that make a difference for a 45-70 round? i use Oregon Trail 300gn bullets only one crimp grove recommended oal is 2.515 i get around 2.500 to 2.495
dandude2010 - Let you in on a little secret that has worked for (Gah!!) 44 years of shooting...Whenever I load a bullet that has a crimping groove, I crimp there and never measure the rounds afterwards...that's what the design of the bullet intends the crimping to be done to work in all guns (there are exceptions to this, of course, but not many). Oregon Trail would not have a good reputation if their crimping grooves caused trouble. With bullets that have extended ogives that might prevent chambering, I might measure one round, but that is all. But I see everyone measuring and measuring... My ammo works well and shoots at the range just fine... if I was hunting, the game wouldn't know any difference whether the rounds were 2.500, 2.495 or 2.515. Good shootin' to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC thank u i was worried there for a min. it wasn't much of a difference but i dont want to over presure my ammo, and bust a lever or firing pin.
dandude2010 - It is good you are concerned about overpressure. Overpressure is a real problem if, for example, our auto pistol rounds are not taper crimped well. Then, on feeding, the bullet gets jammed deeper into the case. This will cause dangerous overpressure if the load was a maximum load to begin with. To find out, your first chambered round at the range, you should eject and inspect for bullet stability. And if shooting revolvers, shoot 5 and check the 6th for any bullet movement (which is bullet forward in revolvers) - the 6th should show no bullet movement. I've got videos up on the crimping of our reloads...should answer most questions. Have a great day, FC
How about a 255 gr .452 polymer coated hard cast lead, with crimp groove, Keith-style SWC bullet in a .45 ACP case?
Fc45lc thanks for all the helpfull videos tons of great info sence subscribing to your channel I've Casted and shot through 170 lbs of range scrap with great accuracy only guy at my local compatitions shooting self cast bullets THANK YOU!! And keep up the great videos
Cool. What kind of competitions?
Action pistol it's a BLAST
USPSA, IDPA or what? I recently started IDPA and enjoy it immensly. I'd love to do 3 gun soon.
Range scrapper - Interesting, when we were doing steel competition, I was the only one casting my own bullets then, there were others that used commercial purchased, but most used the Raniers or jacketed bullets. Looking back, the saving of money was good, but the time expended could have been put towards more practice towards performance improvement. Some of the other guys shot two extra evenings at the range when I was back home casting…It all depends on how far you want to go...Best to ya
That's a good point. Which is why there needs to be an affordable auto-caster machine. I hope to get one on the market in a year or two.
do you always size your bullets or are they molding close enough sometimes?
monsterman27- I was a die hard bullet sizer using Lyman 450 and RCBS LAM2 sizer lubricators for over 35 years. Traditional bullet styles were the only way to go. But when I tried my first TL mold, I have discovered that the cast bullets have needed no sizing and the performance and accuracy was just fine. I've since purchased many more TL molds and none of the bullets have needed any sizing. And the 45/45/10 lube system beats running bullets into sizer lubricators by about 1000 per cent!! So I'm getting the message out to all the newer casters to save all that time for other pursuits....Best to ya...
do you think the TL style are good for hunting in 44 mag. What grain is ideal for that? I was thinking 240 grain or above no lower than 200 grain. Im looking around at molds to see what to go with. Not sure I want t get into molding yet, but if do will be 44 cal maybe 357. Might also do sugs and muzzleload bullets.
monsterman27 Casting for the big 44 is an excellent place to start bullet casting. The Lee 240TL SWC would be a fine hunting bullet. chances are high that you will not need any sizing and then the 45/45/10 system to lube - then load 'em and shoot 'em. A two cavity mold will probably do for your needs unless you plan on shooting lots of bullets. That 240 TL will also serve very well driven at any or all velocity levels you desire... Best to ya....
good vid brother.
chris lowe - And thanks for taking the time to post....Best to ya...
A symfony of destruction. Only kidding. Nice stuff you got there mister. Let's be happy!.
I'm so good that i can put a medium crimp on a jellybean & not even squish it...🤠,, just kidding,, i enjoyed the video, it was very informative,, thanx mr.fortune cookie...
Hi, I just ordered my first batch of Hi-Tek coated Hard Cast lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Company, for my 10mm. They are supposed to be 18 BHN. I asked the person on the phone if I could load those bullets to full 10mm pressures. He said for sure I’d have no problem. I’m skeptical, because 10mm load data for jacketed bullets can be up around the 37,000 PSI range. My goal was to have full power 10mm loads for bear protection, because I frequent the outdoors where bears are regularly present. We commonly buy Buffalo Bore, Underwood Ammo, and other brands that advertise high velocities, upwards of 1200 FPS, for 220 gr, and higher for 200 gr with their Hard Cast Bullets. Do you believe that these 18 BHN bullets can be loaded to safely operate within the same range of pressures the available data shows for jacketed bullets?
@John Beige Unproven? Risking my life? Obviously you aren't qualified to answer my question, because you have zero experience with using the product. If you are that afraid for your life, don't even shoot or reload, too risky for you.
Where's the hot lead zone?
Yes!
^..^~~
The Lee, factory crimp dye is a taper crimp? I assume it is, just want to make sure.
The Lee FCD is a taper crimp die in auto pistol calibers and a roll crimp die in revolver calibers.
A huge fall season hello to shananagans5!! You should have coast to coast fans by now...Best Regards
jima28080 Thanks for the great info on the Lee FCD - I just call it "the best crimp in the business". Have a great day
jima28080 And a neck sizer collet crimper in rifle.
GunFun ZS And those rifle FCDs are really cool the way they work…sounds like someone needs to do a video on Lee FCDs…Thanks for your valuable comments….
The fact I can shoot 40SW out of my G20 10mm proves for all intents and purposes some auto rounds actually head space off the rims as well.
the extractor is holding the 40
@@jreed10291974 when you headspace off the rim on an auto, essentially you are headspacing off the extractor. We are saying the same thing.