I was a cessationist until only a few days ago because when I spent a short time in Bible college in 2003 I was taught that the gifts ceased once the Apostles had established the church. Then I listened to 1 Corinthians being read on RUclips all the way through in one sitting and I realized that the gifts could not have ceased because we are supposed to be using them when we gather. I also realized that what we call church bears very little resemblance to what was commanded in scripture.
God's promises John 14:12-14, Mark 16:17-18 Mark 9:23, Luke 18:29-30 Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:22-24 James 4:2, mark 10:30 James 5:14-16, John 16:23-24, 1 John 5:14-15 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22 1 Corinthians 14:1&31 1 John 3:22-23, 3 John 2 (Psalms 35:27, Psalms 20:4 Psalms 37:4, Matthew 17:20 Psalms 34:15, Luke 17:6 Proverbs 10:22)(Romans 8:23, 2 Corinthians 8:9, Ephesians 3:20, 1 Corinthians 3:22, PHILIPPIANS 4:13)
That happened to me when I read Paul's letters in context. You can't get around the reality of what he was talking about. It would take a "special revelation" to believe in cessationism
As my husband lay dying, CPR was being performed. Naturally, I was quite distressed and weeping. Aloud, I began to pray and beg God to return him to me, to spare his life. After minutes of this, I felt a supernatural calm began to surround me and to my surprise I realized that I had begun to pray of my trust in Him and ask that not my will be done, but His. I was weeping, but desperation left me and the horrible shaking stopped. I watched as CPR was slowed and I knew my husband was gone. They were simply keeping up breathe till our son arrived. The strength and grace of the Holy Father gave me the ability to step up to the bed and say, "Stop. It is over." And I did so with peace. Months later I bumped into a nurse that was there that day. She said the prayer and "the presence that came" was still amazing to that day. My Bible tells me the Comforter was there! My heart aches for this pastor... to literally refuse this Holy Presence...oh my.
Sister, I don't want to try and compete with you by telling my own stories of the spirit so I won't. I just want to say thank you for your story. God bless you for sharing a part of your heart. Thank you. I know what you have shared is the living spirit. From the Lord. I wonder if maybe MacArthur never had an experience with the Holy Spirit because he has never been born again. I always wonder that. Or maybe God has not yet chosen to fully reveal that to him, and in His own time he will or He won't. We cannot know. I completely agree with Dr. Brown here. I hope for MacArthur that he prays on this and begins to explore this subject with God directly. Take it seriously and that one day he be opened up to understanding.
@@robertknight3354 At times I have wondered the same thing about John....but then...I think back at my own spiritual journey stating as a choir member and accoylte at the Wesley Methodist Church where cessionists were the standard fair. I was saved at 10 years old in a vacation bible school.The closest we came to the Holy Spirit at the Methodist church was through the singing of the " Doxology".at the end of every service..It was not until 20 years later, backsliding and searching for God, did I end up, through a series of supernatural divine appointments, in a Pentecostal Assembly of God Church. and receiving of the Holy Spirit shortly thereafter. I did not even realize that I was at a Pentecostal church until a few weeks after I had arrived but the Holy Spirit did a work in me. There are a great many sola scripture. cessesionists out there who think you are of the devil if you allow the Holy Spirit to manifest in your life. I cannot go so far as to doubt all of their salvations but do feel very sad for them that they have quelled the work of the Holy Spirit who has so much for them that they are missing. God Bless....Dana
Thank you for your story sharing....I must tell you...I was very close to my mother who died in the OR just before open heart surgery was to start. At her funeral, standing next to the casket, I felt that I should perhaps pray that God would raise her back to life....But...just as soon as I thought that...The Holy Spirit spoke loudly in my mind's ear !..DO NOT Do this, as your mother is now at peace with the Lord. I instantly felt the same Calm over me that you expressed and although I grieved my mother, I knew she was alright...yes she was saved...I asked the Lord to show me a sign in the upcoming years that she was indeed ok and also as a memorial to her.Every spring for the next few years a beautiful flower [ lilly] would grow in my front yard that had never been planted by me and would germinate in a different place. Lilly's just do not plant themselves in a different isolated area every year...unless planted by God.This went on for about 5 years in a row and then stopped...Dana
I feel like most of my “prayer time” (I put it in quotes because I hesitate to call it genuine prayer) is spent thinking about theological concepts and logically sorting through ideas. To be honest though, I just want to shut it off and actually experience God. In the year that I’ve been born again I’ve had maybe 3 or 4 prayers where I actually “felt” Gods presence, and all I want is to feel His presence again. God bless you guys
In my experience it’s when I began spending time with the lord in worship and prayer that I was filled with Holy Spirit, started having dreams and visions. I never had that experience before. I thought only ministers experience these things. Jesus withdrew and prayed frequently even all night. Hope my experience motivates you ❤
I am actually reading E.M. Bounds book right now and it's driving me into a deeper relationship. The fact that MacArthur is not driven to his knees by these writings and historical testimonies of men who prevailed in Prayer is EXTREMELY concerning. WOW! I will be praying for him. I had no clue it was this bad.
Fruit of the Vine Ministries He's missing something. He doesn't seem to realise that no one does these things to get saved. We are saved. People spend hours in prayer, because they want to commune with the God they love, who saved them from certain death, and delivered them into life through His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. Piety won't save you. It's just a natural response by those who have been saved. I said "a" natural response, not "the" natural response. We are never to judge by appearances. We are supposed to judge the fruit of a life. Amen.
Why do you assume he is not driven to his knees. Do you know what happens when you assume. He is close to 90 years old and has forgotten more then you will ever know. Listen to his sermons on the holy spiritual and you will understand what he is talking about.
@@teslainvestor1743 we know he isn’t driven to his knees because he said he isn’t driven to his knees and that he “has never had an experience with God.”
I agree with Michael here. To many Christians believe it's necessary to strip the Bible and the Christian life of the [supernatural]. I agree that people can spread counterfeit messagesn of God; however, that doesn't mean we cannot have a real genuine "mystical" experience & supernatural fellowship with Him. If these men can believe that a virgin can give birth to a child without ever having sex, then all things are not only possible with Him towards us, but all (good) things are also [available] also, including those kinds of experiences and fellowship.
Ahmathyah Thomas Jefferson believed only the rational and morality of the Bible. He constructed his own “Bible” that had all of the miracles cut away and only left moral principles. I believe John MacArthur is closer to being a Jeffersonian moralist than an actual born of the Spirit believer. He might be born of the Spirit, but I think he is a very clever counterfeit.
Amen. He also created the universe and he is not only our Savior but called us his friends. Calvinists are known to pride themselves in their many books. Many have religious pride. Their founder himself, John Calvin, submitted unto the killing and banishment of those who did not conform to his theocracy in Geneva. John says that if you hate your brother you are a murderer and the love of God does not abide in you. Paul said he counted all his religious learning but dung that he might win Christ and be found in Him and to know Him. Heart knowledge and fellowship is more important than head knowledge.
yeah i like Macarthur a lot but i have always strongly disagree with Him when it Comes to the things of the Holy Spirit. John seems like his faith is just intellectual one and thats where it stops but He's really missing out on Gods presence!! really missing out! its sad
In my early twenties, I spent a year in Tulsa, Oklahoma. At the time, in the late 1970s, that city was filled with churches espousing the word-faith doctrine. Suffice to say it opened my eyes to the real danger of not keeping your emotions in check. I have witnessed numerous so-called pastors ‘teaching’ their flock to speak in tongues, and found myself joining in. Entire congregations, thousands of people, speaking in a language that no one understood and for which no interpretation could be given. Prayer is essential to the health and strength of a believer. It is the practice that Jesus Christ demonstrated to be the only way to open our hearts to God. Our hearts can and do rejoice at the hearing and contemplation of God’s Word, but chaos and confusion can ensue when we allow that personal conversation between us our Creator to devolve into a public display of heightened emotion. I am not commenting here to castigate the man who made this video, he sounds like a grounded believer who kneels before the same Jesus who I worship.
@@Harpazo_to_Yeshua Christ does talk about when you pray in secret. As far as I know there is no mandate to pray in secret as in only praying and secret. I am curious to know exactly what scripture you're referring to Maybe that would help me to better understand exactly what you mean by what you wrote. What I am 100% certain about his hat the scriptures do tell us to forsake not the assembly of ourselves together. I'm curious if you're familiar with that?
If you think Dr MacArthur's faith is only "intellectual", then you're denying he is walking with and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And you've obviously never had anything to do with him or you'd know that was total nonsense. Do you honestly think this sanctified man of God who has consistently produced good fruit his entire life is spiritually inferior to Benny Hinn, a man who has made numerous false prophecies in public...Just because Dr MacArthur doesn't flop around on the floor spouting gibberish like an imbecile? Get real.
I don't know. I find praying for 2 to 3 hours a day on my off days (when I don't have to get up and rush to work) deeply edifying. I find my prayer life to be one of the most meaningful times of my life. It is an experiential thing when you feel God's spirit working in you.
That's good! Please pray for me (John Carpenter) and the church for which I am a pastor, Covenant Reformed Baptist Church. Please pray that the Lord build us up and defend us and give us fruit.
Sounds like Martin Luther before he was taught by the Holy Spirit [through the scriptures'] to stop looking for some kind of emotional experience and seek God through the Holy Spirit written words of God. I hope those many hours are founded in the words of God and don't wind up with the idiocy of the Sid Roth bunch. These folks are all great prayer folks. Some actually "experience" Jesus as he comes and sets on their beds at night and talk to Him face to face. And if you deny that their stories are true then who are you to deny their own "personal real experiences" with God? Someone is being deceived and if you believe these gifts are for today you can not deny any of their "real life experiences". You are silenced by your own belief system . You can't say "well some Charismatics just go to far". That is not an option --you opened a door you can never close. Good luck with that.
I find his take concerning. It’s funny, because I feel like there are two camps of Christians: the ones who experience the supernatural presence of God, and the ones who don’t. When I was eight, I received Christ at a church my friend’s family took me to (my parents did not take me to church). After the service, I gave my life to Christ and received a baptism of the Holy Spirit and will never forget the experience- it was physical and felt like a loving vibration of electricity throughout my body. It was a constant wave that lasted a few minutes. As I grew, I fell away, and a few years ago I repented and gave my life back to the Lord. A few months later, when I was sleeping, I woke up in the middle of the night with the same waves of love washing over me, and this time, although I kept my eyes closed, I saw fractals of a white dove pulsing in front of my eyes. It was so peaceful and I know that was the Holy Spirit. So my experiences with the Lord have been supernatural and I am so grateful, because there is absolutely no denying him after all of that. Yet, my mother-in-law who was raised in a very religious home has never had a supernatural experience. She is a believer and studies the Bible constantly, has had a much more “clean” life than I ever did (before my rededication) yet has never experienced or felt God in these ways. Actually, when I have told her about mine, her attitude is very similar to Macarthur’s. A bit of a “rolling of the eyes” feeling. You see, our world is completely supernatural, God’s Spirit is supernatural. There is nothing “esoteric” about it. Why some believers experience him supernaturally and others do not, I’m not sure. But I am so grateful that I am one that does, because those were truly the most incredible moments of my life. It makes me wonder, do Christians like John MacArthur and my mother-in-law have something in common? Is there a prideful spirit there? Have these believers ever truly had to humble themselves? He speaks about how he was a football player and “normal” and he loved God and never experienced “weird stuff” when it came to God. It almost feels like being back in high school and the jock is picking on the nerd. And my mother-in-law is the same way. But I tell you this- God has a special love for the underdog, for the overcomers, and for the broken. And I would take the hardships and persecution of being a little “strange” and “broken” to have the privilege of experiencing God supernaturally. If that is what is contingent, I’ll take it.
Chrissy H Why don't some experience the supernatural? Lack of belief. Even Jesus couldn't do miracles in some places due to their lack of belief. Faith enables the supernatural.
Tess W that is a good point. Perhaps believers who look at Christianity in a purely intellectual way are missing that one essential element- blind faith like a child.
Kendhal Tilùèn since we are all born sinners, wouldn’t we all experience this supernatural conversion? Does this mean that one is not converted if they don’t experience this?
I've had a similar experience to yours when being asleep. Awoke from a dream and had my whole body vibrating like a tuning fork. Pretty incredible. I've also been attacked spiritually in my sleep by spiritual things too, like waking up from dreams of paralysis and something smothering me.
In the gospels, each and every time someone "reasoned in their heart" in Jesus' Presence, He rebuked them for it. "Commonsense" is the diametric opposite of "Holy Spirit." If supreme rationality and logic were the prerequisites for comprehending God, then revivals would be breaking out at Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard & Yale, rather than in the slums of the world.
This is coming two years late. However I'm pretty sure Jesus was not using reasoning in a sense of using their minds. The problem was that they were trying to justify themselves. The more appropriate word would be rationale. Remember the language only had so many words. Its all about context. Reasoning goes both ways as this same Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for not being able to discern the times and for know knowing scripture. The did not serve the LORD with their minds.
Then you disagree with Dr Brown. He has to come to a rational conclusion with all his explanations when others attack the scriptures or else he can’t sleep. Just because someone wants to rationalize a concept or idea does not mean they are not saved.
John Wesley's early life and career was built around an intellectual approach to worship and finding God but falling short always. But then came the great change in his life when the Holy Spirit came into him and he knew it immediately. His brother Charles also became filled with the Holy Spirit and was quite exuberant after that for the rest of his life. He was continually praying, preaching and writing a hymn per day, sometimes a hymn would have 30 stanzas. That's how carried away by the Spirit he was.
He was converted at Aldersgate Street through a reading of Martin Luther's introduction to the book of Romans. He wasn't just filled with the Holy Spirit, he came to understand the gospel. Have you really understood it?
Baltic Hammer John Wesley came up with a new doctrine called entire sanctification. I grew up in a Weslyan church and I do not believe this is biblical at worst it’s a heresy.
Robert Harbitz II Believe you're referring to the "sinless perfection" or "Christian perfection", whatever label others like to give it. Far from a doctrine its more a concept or theory in relation to a goal that Christians should strive for. Really its emphasizing the commands and demands in the Bible for holy living and to keep Christians focused on that until we are truly sanctified in the end. No idea how that could be called heresy.
“With God, all things are possible.” Moses spent 40 days with God, while waiting for the 10 Commandments to be written by the finger of God, on Mt. Sinai. ❤️ your show Dr. Brown.
There is a saying that I heard a long time ago. It settles many things for me, certainly when it comes to your John MacArthur's et al: 'A MAN WITH AN EXPERIENCE IS NOT AT THE MERCY OF A MAN WITH AN ARGUMENT.' I love your gentle and tender spirit Dr Brown. Please just keep going.
MacArthur said he has NEVER experienced "mystical" feelings of the Presence of God. The Bible speaks about the peace of God passes understanding of His love surpasses knowledge and of a joy that is unspeakable. These things are not part of MacArthur's experience. He is a man devoted to logically analyzing the scriptures. This could just as easily be said by a rabbi in Jesus' day.
Peace that is described in Philippians 4:6-7 isn't refering to any mystical peace and outward peace. Its refering to inner peace that surpasses all human understanding. Its the peace inside that remains in the heart of saints in the midst of persecution. That peace keeps our hearts and minds in union with Christ.
@@IntelNuggets our spirit and indwelling by the Spirit is *inherently mystical* because that is what the things of the spiritual realm are, beyond the senses. The problem many have with Jmac us that he has hijacked the basic dictionary meaning of *mystical* to mean something unbiblical, wrong, crazy, Eastern, you name it. So the effect of that mis characterization, *anything* that is our spirit in operation tends to be rejected.
Wearing holes in the floor from praying for so long and heartfelt and respectfully is not mystical or transcendental. This is a dangerous thing that he is proposing to believers. If more people had the fear of God we would actually be praying on our knees even harder and longer. People in the Bible prayed for hours and hours, even days. They pleaded in love and fear with the Lord. When we see the Lord face to face in His glory we will fall to our knees, faint, tremble, because he is so sacred and humans can't even handle it. So no, praying and praying for hours or days is not crazy at all or related to some sort of wacky mystical experience. It's called reverence.
HomeGrown That's actually the kind of thing Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal for. Nowhere does the Bible promote torturing yourself to get God's attention. It actually teaches that He accessible at a moment's notice, if you're living a holy life.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints Ephesians 6
aptginc He spent hours in prayer pouring out His heart before the Father, not waiting to be zapped with an emotional fit. What MacArthur was talking about in this clip is people who just sit idly, waiting to hear, see, or feel something from God.
MacArthur says "from my own personal experience" he found that "couldn't comprehend that behavior" and it was therefore wrong. Yet if a Charismatic refers to personal experiences for speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, etc. cessationist like MacArthur will come down on them like a ton of bricks. A bit of a double standard isn't it?
Sorry bruh, that's not accurate at all. You can say from his own personal lack of experience if you please. The point is what scripture has to say about it, and what the examples of scripture represent. Current day claims just don't hold-up under scrutiny when compared with the BIBLE accounts of the same thing. It's just that simple. I think the biggest problems are that (except for Catholicism) all the scandal that brings a reproach on the name of Christ has come from the charismatic world. Additionally, the bulk of heretical teaching which is aimed at fleecing suckers also comes from there too, as big claims of health, wealth, healings, and miracles are packaged together to get "seed", "deliverance", and "breakthrough" money $$$. In Matthew 7:22, Christ specifically names the antics of those who will say "Lord Lord" to him in that day. None of them talk about how they taught the scriptures in His name, but All of them talk about the signs they allegedly did. I know of no one who is only teaching Biblical truth and getting rich, buying mansions, and private jets. Again..It's only so-called charismatics. Honestly, why do you suppose that is?
@@fitnessguru8012 So where does scripture say that God should rescue us from fanatical prayer, then? "During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." Hebrews 5:7. In any case MacArthur dismisses the "irrational" hysterics of the charismatics on the basis of his own lack of anecdotal experience -- which is completely irrational hypocrisy in itself. Also your last paragraph is absurd.
@@spyroninja If you have a question that specifically addresses something that I wrote, then you forgot to address that. Otherwise, based on the fact that all you wrote was irrelevant, I would have to conclude that you are a troll.
The Bible is clear there are 2 types of knowledge : information and experience. AND we have to be strengthened by the spirit to move to experience which SURPASSES information. Ephesians 3:19 (NKJV) 19 to know ( greek ginōskō experience , feel ) the love of Christ which passes knowledge ( greek gnōsis information ) that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. here is the whole passage in context Ephesians 3:14-21 (NKJV) 14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-- 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
I would love to see a discussion with Dr Brown and John Mcarthur. Just a sit-down to clarify. Two intelligent and thoughtful believers with some differences.
Thing is MacArthur is not intelligent or thoughtful but a deceiving demon maskertering as a Angel of light. He thinks everybody is wrong except his Calvinist views. Thank God Francis Chan is not part of his clan.
I absolutely love John MacArthur. I have always taken issue with his strong stance of full cessationism and what he teaches about super natural experiences of believers. I've had several super natural experiences. They are real. The are a blessing from God to /his precious children. Words of knowledge are real. The gifts are real. Supernatural moments in prayer are real. I even heard him say once, that we can't cast out devils. With all that being said, he is still one of my favorite teachers. I love him and Dr. Brown.
I believe that Pastor John is wonderful at exposing the flakes and counterfeits that have abandoned sound expository teaching of scripture. That’s why I love reformed theology. What he’s saying on fellowship with the Holy Spirit is simply expressing the point of allowing the spirit to sanctify, teach and guide us into a deeper richer understanding on the character and attributes of God and ultimately lining up with His will. I believe we can find some common ground without having to compromise sound biblical doctrine, but I do find that there is quite a bit more emphasis on the gifts of the spirit rather than His fruits. Allowing the Spirit to do His regenerate work in us is much more challenging and yet rewarding. It’s a work that’s not attributed to glorify and doesn’t draw attention to itself but gives us a solid footing on discernment that’s needed in the very deceptive age in which we live.
I agree with much of what you said, however you did highlight exactly the problem with MacArthur. To void the Word of God CAN obviously weed out the fakes because they will always rely heavily on spiritual personal accounts that nobody can verify to anoint themselves holy....that's true. Yet taking away the supernatural from the Bible is itself sacrilegious. It is editing Biblical Truth to spread the ideas MacArthur spreads on the topic. The Holy Spirit, the Comforter was sent to us. This is Biblical Fact. This is God's Will and Word. For anybody to insinuate that a person declaring the Comforter is naturally suspect is on serious dangerous ground. I myself am confused on why a Christian would even stand on this topic as a mission. Clearly the Bible states that we are in communion with the supernatural. The Holy Spirit. For a person to take up this cross against revelation of the Spirit to me is proof he or she does not have the Spirit. A man or woman of God answers only to God. A man or woman of the devil answers only to God. I pray that MacArthur is soon to be touched by the Lord and will receive what it is he doesn't yet have.
Amen, Carey, all the evil things that Charismatics do in their gatherings is not of the Holy Spirit, but it is of the Devil. God has given them over to a delusional mind. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12, speaks of Charismatics, because they are the ones who follow Satan and his lying signs and wonders. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.
@@robertknight3354 i apologize for being two years late, I just noticed your comment today. 🙂 I hope to keep this as a debate rather than an argument so I’d like to address some concerns with your argument. Yes the Holy Spirit indwells every believer. No one is saying other wise. While you rally for supernatural experiences and say that we shouldn’t hold everyone accountable and be discerning in a deceptive age is on serious ground yet at the same time assume or denying that Pastor John does not have the Spirit of God. Do you see the irony here? No one here is arguing the fact the God the Holy Spirit is not supernatural. We’re simply pointing out the fact that we do not have the same measure of anointing by the spirit that the apostles were given. You’ll discover from the word of God that we only see God move in truly miraculous means when He’s endorsing someone or something. For example His law and deliverance through Moses. Verifying His word through the prophets Elijah and Elisha. When He raises up Judges with Sampson etc. all the way up to God the Son and His ambassadors ushering in the New Testament with those who met a particular requirement to preach His word. Now that we have the canonized Holy Bible, we don’t need the prophets of the Old. Not saying that God the Holy Spirit is not miraculously moving in our midst, God is sovereign not man so He does what He wills and pleases Him according to His own purpose and not man’s. Also I didn’t realize there was a cross of denying the miraculous. Only the cross of suffering and bearing His shame. God bless you my friend. FYI the most miraculous workings of our time is the providential hand of God sovereignly accomplishing what He’s set out to do by bringing about His outcome. The Holy Spirit is very much intimate with fellowship when we walk in the light.
@@Festusband I don't disagree with anything you said. I concur with each point you have. What I don't stand for is the type of nastiness that breeds in the reformed culture of which I am a part that has pastors sending its parishioners out into the world looking for people to "own", "destroy" etc. I don't agree with the charismatic movement at all. But the issue is the way we are supposed to lovingly tell them they are wrong VS enjoying showing people how right we are, not caring about their soul at all but use our "wisdom" to rub their noses in mud. There is a difference. One is evil and hatred disguised. The other is a confrontation born of concern for an actual person. Don't get me wrong. Im not discounting a HARSH rebuke. Not against that at all. It is very loving to harshly pull somebody out of a fire.
@@Festusband Secondly, my problem is making it a mission to go after those who speak of the Spirit of God. Yes the prophets are done. Yes the tongues stuff is a game. Yes new age is an infection. There are people who attack this topic with the intent on winning souls for Christ with the gospel. There are wolves in disguise who attack this topic solely with the intent on winning the argument. Just to clarify again. I in no way mean to discourage a harsh rebuke. I'm talking about an inner nastiness much of the "baby Christians" in our reformed camp seem to have. You see them come and go from a thread having done nothing but drop an insult and leave. No concern for the souls. Making a long winded comment listing your "proof texts" and then hit the road. Again, no real concern for a soul. A would be, could be sister or brother. I for the life of me don't understand why JM has gone down some of these rabbit holes. Btw my comments on him and the Spirit weren't solely based on this video. He always seems bent on making sure you know he isn't charismatic by going hard against anything spiritual at all. We worship a triune God. So this means each member of the Godhead is to be worshipped. I praise and pray on the glory of the Father the Son and definitely the Holy Spirit. Each deserves praise and worship. You can do that without believing in Tongues, prosperity gospel, modern prophets or new age. I'm sorry to offend anyone in St John's camp but it's true. None of this is possible without the Spirit. I think waging this battle in the way he wages it is a bit sophomoric. I think it's a mistake. I think you risk shutting out the Spirit. I think you create a culture of internet head hunters. I think waging this battle in such a bullish way encourages strife. We have the gospel. Smack somebody right in the mind and heart with it. It's good for them. And to the other commenter who essentially did the closed off, drive by .....you realize that a great many of the people you are talking about are winnable, right? I think much of this approach is centered in bad eschatology. Thinking the end is just at the door and everything we see is the wicked who are minutes away from death. We are just about to be saved from it and all we need to do is make sure we don't stand so close to them. More rotten fruit from a bad eschatology tree. I pray JM ponders his friendship with R.C.S. a little more.
Weird. I was baptized in the Holy spirit when I was in my 20s. I'm so glad I never heard this because it would have caused me doubt and I never would have experienced this great gift. I was on fire for God, and with a smile on my face for days. It was the best experience I've ever had.
Pastor MacArthur has much to learn. I love listening or used to love listening to him until I heard his sermon on the Mark of the Beast. He teaches a person can be saved if they take it, which is a deplorable since we know those who take it are damned for eternity. How many will be led astray by him? If belief in God were supposed to always be rational and logical, then there would be no faith required to believe it.
Taking the mark of the beast is a very serious false teaching by John McArthur. He has been called out on this issue by Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministires. He is a Jewish brother in the Lord and an excellent expositor of the word and like Dr. Brown is not a cessationist. You can view the video on RUclips. There is no mistaking or misunderstanding what John said. He very clearly teaches this heresy. This teaching is abominable. I used to go to the church where he shepherds. I have one of his study bibles and have read some of his books. I have always had a great deal of respect for him and considered him a great expositor of the scriptures. No more. This man frightens me. He denies the gifts of the Spirit which to me is almost analogous to blaspheme of the Spirit. His views in effect are encouraging those in the body to quench the Spirit. There will always be false manifestations in this area but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. That is why we are to test everything. Discernment is needed. But this teaching on taking the mark of the beast is when I could no longer view John as teaching sound doctrine. I will pray for him but I will not encourage others to listen to him any longer nor do I.
I am one year too late to answer this video, but let me give my 2 cents here: I used to be Christian who loved Hillsong and similar Christian.....branches. Our youth group used to do do all these charismatic things.... I did not understand the criticism coming from the main part of our church. Today I do. One day I started doubting everything I did in church. This sent me down a very dark path. Is that truly from God? Am I worshiping for the glory of God or am I singing to satisfy my emotional .... fix? In short, am I worshiping myself? Am I really moved or is it just the music? Etc. Eventually I gave up on all of it. It took me several years before I could crawl my way back to the Bible. In fact even now I am crawling. My current position on spiritual movement is this: Anyone who thinks he feels spiritually moved by God, I will not deny him that. Glory to God. But I myself cannot allow that to me. Before I can do any kind of worship again, I first need to learn more about my own faith. I need to learn the scripture, I need to learn obedience, and many other things. Praise without love is only noise. However, my love for my Lord shall no longer be defined by feelings and emotions that I dont understand, but by my obedience. I must learn that (obedience). Until then, I must reject all emotional movement out of fear so that I may not fall into doubt again. So, as Jon MacArthur said, this esoteric stuff, I also cannot accept that....at least not in my life. In any other persons life, if they can, wonderful. In fact I envy them. Any Christian who has a real and genuine encounter with Jesus, I envy them. I didnt experience it yet.
This post was a long time ago but if this reply makes it to you, and for others reading this, I just want to encourage you! You are so honest and it's amazing to see that your heart has remained tender when there's such pain and doubt and fear! Remember that doubt and fear and condemnation do NOT come from the LORD. He said that perfect love casts out fear, that their's no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus, and that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. God made our capacity for emotions just the same as our bodies, and He has commands for our emotions as well as for our bodies. Infact Jesus showed that the law was meant for our emotions as well as our bodies when he said the Pharisees were like white washed tombs obeying on the outside but dead on the inside. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks! And written in scripture are many commands for our emotions, "don't fear" "lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord" "love the Lord your God with all your Heart, mind, and strength" for example. So when you act in a way that causes your emotions to obey God in His word (such as sing to music, move your body in a dance, turn down the lights to eliminate distraction) you ARE obeying God. My encouragement to you is, yes! Read the Bible. Feed on it like it is manna from heaven. Draw all your strength from it. Meditate on it day and night. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you experience the word and be a doer of the word and not a hearer only. Apply the word to your emotions and bring your emotions in obedience to the word of God or "take every thought captive and bring it into the obedience of the Lord". So that means just by the three commands I listed for emotions from scripture, submit your fears to the Lord and meditate on scriptures that encourage faith and pray for a work of Holy Spirit beyond your power to change yourself. Sure listen to songs and worship if that encourages trust and faith because that's in obedience to the Lord. Praying for you now that the Lord brings you great joy in sweetness of His word and His Spirit, that He quenches the fear and voice of the accuser in your heart, and that faith rises up in you so your life may be overflowing with the fruit of the Spirit!
Yes , Mr. MC Arthur , you are missing something ! I was led by the Holy Spirit to read the Bible and to pray for Hours a Day. ....three Months before I was freed from many Demons . ... I only relied on God during this time . ..no-one in the Baptist Church helped or even believed me . ...I was told a true Believer could not have Demons inside . ..but I knew better . .. and during this 3- Months - Process it was only THE HOLY SPIRIT, who guided and helped me through words of the Bible , Speaking into my mind and through Signs . ... and three days before the Demons were cast out by 2 charismatic leaders at a charismatic Evangelisation- Weekend , Jesus told me that it would happen .... and it did happen in such a mighty way....you can't imagine that . ... and afterwards there was such a feeling of Holiness there . ...Holy Ground ! ! ! I had to put my shoes off ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! And others , too ! This kind of Experience you are missing , Mr. MC Arthur !!! So sad ! ! !
A true believer having demons inside? Where did the demon. Live? In the same vessel where the holy Spirit lives? I can't understand that. I'm asking sincerely for clarity
@@ezidimmakenneth7927 we are 3 vessels in one--Body, Soul (mind), and Spirit. Our spirit is dead, hardened, cold until the Holy Spirit indwells there and brings it to life. The soul/mind is us--what we think with. All contained within our body/flesh. Demons dwell in our flesh and interact with our minds. They do not reside in our spirit/where the Holy Spirit lives. It was a good 5 months probably after I was baptized by the Holy Spirit that Jesus took some of the demons from me. Others hid and waited. Then came back with a vengeance. I was in torment. The Holy Spirit won't chase the demons out for us. They may leave on their own or be cast out by Jesus and then the Holy Spirit will help us close those doors. But if we continue to sin we leave an open door and that's when they come back on the attack to destroy us rather than to keep us Satan's. They've pretty much lost us once we are saved so at that point it's either destroy us or try to keep us from working for God to our fullest ability. False doctrine produces demonic strongholds which keeps us from fully knowing God and hindering our walk. Demonic strongholds are like a computer virus planted in our minds that allows demons to slip their lies past our firewalls and insert malicious code. Only through God's Word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit can we break down those strongholds. Speaking God's Truth to the lies and trusting the POWER of the Word and Truth (Jesus' power essentially) to free us from those binding thought processes. That's why strongholds can sometimes be cast down as if cast out by a demon--its still Jesus doing the work.
@@tannerfrancisco8759 this is nothing but using language to obfuscate things. The body, the Bible says is the temple of the Holy Spirit. There's nothing you can point to in scripture to substantiate all these you've written here.
@@ezidimmakenneth7927 Greetings sir, this is coming quite late, but do you not suspect that if sickness and sin and uncleaness can dwell in a Christian demons might also be able to do so?
@@meshaelababio4593 Truth is that the scriptures make is abundantly clear that He that dwells in us is greater than he that is in the world...ie, the devil. The scriptures say that he that is born of God keepeth himself and the evil one toucheth him not. The scriptures say that we are seated with Christ far above principalities and powers, the scriptures say that our bodies is the temple of the Holy Spirit etc.In all of the teaching of the Bible about spiritual warfare, I never saw once where it advocated for exorcism as one of the strategies to employ. The sheer preponderance of scriptures show evidently that a child of God indwelt by the Holy Spirit cannot be indwelt by a demon as well. Demons can attack Christan, can beguile them by causing them to believe lies, etc, but there's no single evidence of scripture to substantiate the fact that a child of God can be demon possessed. Let God be true and every mans experience a lie. We know that we have evidence in the Bible that a believers body being unredeemed yet is still possible to come under the affliction of diseases or even sin.
I'm young. Only 25 years old. I've been in quite a turbulent and trial of a time recently. A close family member had a mental breakdown, my grandmother passed away, my girlfriend of two years had a concussion and has been wrestling with fierce depression (as a result of her concussion, apparently that type of cranial trauma can cause mood fluctuations). On top of all this, I've been wrestling with deep existential questions; for example, I'm learning and wrestling with some of the more logical and philosophical reasons for believing God exists. My faith isn't in question, as I trust Christ and His perfection, but it's just a time of pressing as I'm learning how to discuss my faith with those who are more intellectual. I feel quite called to that area and it's a bit of an intimidating field. In all of this, I realized I've completely missed the fact that I've been dropping my prayer time. I haven't sat and just experienced the Spirit as I used to. I know this video is three years old but thank you Dr. Brown for refreshing my view that God is a God who is with us, no matter the questions we ask or the struggles we go through. I need to experience His joy more than just Sunday morning worship. I need to pursue him every day and experience His life in prayer. Amen.
Dr. Brown may be the greatest Biblical scholar alive today, in part because he lives what he teaches so profoundly. He is intensely involved in reaching all nations for the Lord Jesus. Nothing is more important than that. Dr. Brown does not dwell in proverbial ivory towers. His faith leads to his works, which is why God gives him such wisdom & discernment.
yeoberry When you take one verse and separate it from the surrounding verses, you're the one twisting scripture. When you try to change the subject to avoid dealing with the facts, you're the one who's being dishonest. I didn't start "spewing insults" until you asked for it.
I’ve had experiences with God that made me wonder how much of it was my imagination. But they transformed me into a different person. Other people noted a positive difference in me. But I couldn’t explain them rationally.
I one time wrote am email to Justin Peters because if he was correct and I was wrong about God speaking to people then my entire conversion story is a complete lie. But I know it is not a lie.
Spirit of truth is alive today, I wouldn't believe in God if I didn't receive the Holy spirit, I don't know how can anyone believe without first experiencing God. But blessed are those who didn't see and believed.
We walk by faith and truth not by feelings but we have feelings strong feelings that can and many times are strong waters that guide us to live and love the truth with our hearts not just our objective minds. Feelings are beautiful but easily deceived but feelings can enhance the great love we have of Our Lord and His ways. The feeling of sheer gratitude and brought to tears by the Lord washing the feet of the sinner and apostle, His words as he was strung up, "Forgive them Father! They know not what they do!" The feelings overflow in a sheer explosion of guilt love amazement and extecy that this is GOD! LET ALL GAZE ON HIM AND HIS EVERLASTING TRANSCENDENT LOVE! LET US BOW, KNEEL, PROSTATE OURSELVES IN HIS PRESSENCE FOR HE IS HOLY BEAUTIFUL MERCIFUL AND JUST OUR GREAT KING! I feel GREAT emotion and sentimentality how could you not be just excited? Now those feelings do not mean that they are true, if I did not posses those feelings they would still wholly be true but those feelings wrap truth around my heart in a warm embrace with a strong grip to never let go. Sometimes indeed our feelings are just but not because we simply feel them.
Dr. Brown. I agree with you. We need more than an intellectual basis with regard to faith in God. Our knowledge of God ought to be more than intellectual in nature - i.e. knowing ABOUT him from his Word. In fact, I remember the days when many of us evangelicals went around sharing our faith using the 4 spiritual laws, exhorting and challenging people to have a "personal relationship with God" - yes, a PERSONAL one. The fellowship of the Holy Spirit is indeed necessary. Sadly, fear of the unknown is what seems to have kept him from truly understanding this truth that you have highlighted in the above video. Thank you for your balanced approach with respect to the Holy Spirit.
I knew there was NO WAY John MacArthur could have EVER have had an encountered the POWER of the Holy Spirit and held a Strange Fire conference. Father, help him.
so grateful for the sweet, charitable way you present this! i also have come around to your way of thinking, in that, though i was Baptist and have never spoken in tongues, or directly seen or had a full on miracle, i think it is far wiser to be silent and give people the benefit of the doubt. by their fruits ye shall know them. God is sure not bound to or by my opinion, or understanding. I also read Bounds book as a teen. I tried it for a while. It is hard to maintain that level of prayer! Yet, it was a good sweet time, and it sure did me no harm. I love John M., but cant say i think he always gets it right
When my grandson was dying we all were praying nonstop for a miracle.alone one nite in my bathroom my soul?spirit?knew God was taking him home.in that devestating,gut wretching moment i felt a huge presense in the room with me and in my thoughts i clearly heard"i will get u through this and his mother too".a calmness,a peace went thru me.strength i did not know i posessed got me thru the next few days as he died,thru the burial,helping his mom overcome anger,grief,guilt.i miss him so much but i know God was and still is with me today thru that dark time.supernatural?you bet it was
The problem that sometimes occurs when people get caught up in the emotional side of religion is that they don't get rooted in Christ, but instead base their relationship with God on feelings. Emotion has to be tempered with reason, but reason also has to be tempered with humility before God and understanding there are things beyond our ability to analyze. Sometimes our feelings are just feelings, other times it's really God. Inevitably we will make the wrong judgment call and either step out when God didn't call us, or miss out on a blessing God had for us. And that's ok. God can use our failure to His glory just as easily as our success, more so, from what I read in scripture. I completely understand this man's reservation and I'm pretty sure I've witnessed the sort of thing that ran him off. When people use God to feel good rather than following after Him whether it feels good or not, that's when they get in danger of maligning the word of God. A relationship with Christ is an all consuming love that ultimately overcomes addiction to sin, not a new addiction to replace the old. Still, this man also seemed rather narrow minded. I think he, like me, is from a culture that strongly encourages suppression of emotion and discourages expression of it, and I think he's let this cultural upbringing limit who God can be to Him. I believe I've felt the presence of God before, and it is wonderful, but I also get uncomfortable/tired very quickly because I'm not used to letting myself feel that much. I'm learning.
I like the premise that "Do we want all of what God has for us"? Yes. I think it's a great starting point, because it would appear that some people do not want that. So great starting point.
It seems like MacArthur might be digging in his heels, overshooting even his own experiences in his statements just to prove his point. How does he view the experiences of so many in the Bible? - King David dancing with all his might, the words of the Psalms, Anna the prophetess never leaving the temple, Paul caught up to paradise hearing inexpressible things. The Spirit speaks in groans. The creation groans. We groan for our redemption. No, experiences and emotion don't define truth, but they certainly can flow from the truth.
Wow! I completely respect Dr. John MacArthur but he is most definitely putting a limit on what the Holy Spirit does. Just because he has not experienced the Holy Spirit as other believers in Christ does not make it not true. That being said there is most definitely a counterfeit spirit in a lot of charismatic churches but it does not mean all of it is false.
4:22 I can't honor MacArthur as an elder . He uses his negative arrogance to make a lot of money while criticising anyone that dates to believe God to be their source for living. The church does not need a narcissist.
I had the chance to preach to a young woman and God delivered her from Santeria and Witchcraft, along with another pastor we minister to her and she got set free from all these demonic practices. she grew up so much in spiritual life, and for years was so full of the Holy Spirit, the she went to a Christian college and I never thought it was a Calvinist one, after several years her doctrine was affected and she moved from our charismatic church to a Baptist one. Years later I received the news that she layered hands on a young woman and prayed for her and some evil force manifested in such an extensive way that the young girl started making noises as she was possessed by demons and a deliverance started to take place, but the Calvinist pastor arrived and told her not to pray any more because those things should not happen in their church building and that it was not part of their believes. Very weird...they saw the power of God and they denied it...very sad, and unfortunately my ex disciple decided to stay at that Baptist church
Macarthur reminds me of King David's wife; how she rebuked David for dancing and singing praise to the Lord in the public presence of the people. From her standpiint, she was aashamed that he emphatically expressed his love for God for worhsipping God with every fiber of his being in song and dance. I think that Almighty God dealt with her accordingly. ANyone who tells me I am nuts for glorifying God, is indifferent to the holiness of God
To the sanctified mind, faith is Bible says it is an assurance and an evidence. It is not about the 5 senses. But to the saved individual who has a faculty within him to substantiate things unseen, faith makes absolute sense to the spiritually minded. Anything that does not satisfy your mind cannot be a liveable conviction. I agree MacArthur. I thought he meant that we should be stoics without feelings, only for you to mention that quote which showed he wasn't advocating for that. Faith will never make sense to the natural mind, otherwise, they'll become saved.
How can you not have an emotional response when you contemplate God's love and forgiveness, or deliverance from a situation in which you were doomed if God did not intervene? When you consider God's grace upon you even though you know you are unworthy? When God chose you be one of the few to be considered His special possession that will be saved from His wrath that is coming upon the rest of the world, isn't jumping up and down for joy an appropriate response? Dancing and shouting? Doesn't God's word encourage this? Isn't joy one of the fruit of the Spirit? I understand and agree that there needs to be a proper balance, and I agree that there are abuses by some charismatics, but with all due respect to Dr. McArthur whom I regard highly, I think he greatly errs in condemning all emotionalism and associated worship music because that hasn't been his experience. I mean, GREATLY errs. I've experienced being filled with the Spirit in a tangible way, where I couldn't even go to sleep at night because of the spiritual "high", yet my personality is lowkey. But I understand that God deals with different people in different ways, and I shouldn't make judgments based on my individual experience (unless they are extreme and unbiblical).
It's so sad to see these extremes on both sides. I grew up Pentecostal and I remember an Evangelist called Yiye Avila; especially the power of the Lord Jesus on his life. I'll never forget my skeptic friend trembling and it wasn't cold. I told him it's in his mind, and that he should calm down. He asked why I was making fun of him; I told him that it's one thing to talk about God's presence, and it's another to experience it. Having said that, we're NOT to be led by experiences and emotions, but by what's written in scripture. The next and most important thing, pray and fast always. God's goal isn't to get you on TV; but to get you in communion with The Lord of Glory - Yeshua Ha Mashiah! Blessed be His Name forever. BTW, Yiye Avila was of Sephardic ancestry, not that that matters; Jesus Christ is what matters. Thank you Dr. Brown for sharing.
Dr. Brown, there is a person who has a watermelon. He touched it, measured it, even cut it and smelled it, and teaches others all about watermelon. But he never put it into his mouth. How would he know what watermelon tastes like? It seems to me that John MaCarther is like the person who majored in Watermelon but do not know how it tastes.
With all due respect of Dr. Brown's experiences, just because one has not yet experienced the joy of these experiences (as Pastor MacArthur relates) does not make them invalid, or unbiblical. Dr. Brown should be focusing on the unbiblical, demoniac, Jezebelian influences of this world. Do not become distracted by "splitting hairs".
I would respect John MacArthur a whole lot more if I felt he was telling the truth in LOVE! Maybe it's just the way he comes across, but I hear a lot of truth from John Mac, but not much LOVE. When he "stands for the truth", it strikes me as coming out of a heart of bitterness, anger, sarcasm, arrogance, or dare I say even--envy. Contrast that to the way Jesus, or Paul, or even Dr. Brown warns people about false doctrine, it comes out of a heart of compassion for people, wanting to keep them from deception, because they grieve for people's souls--I don't hear much compassion from John Mac. But don't tell his followers that! To them, he can do no wrong. They would like to make John Mac the fourth member of the Godhead. Thank you, Dr. Brown, for your balanced approach to not only scripture, but for people
My brother -law an Calvinist married to Pentecostal Spirit filled wife, go figure, he was not even saved when they got married. Really got riled up when I shared this video on Facebook. He kept post Calvinist views and I just kept posting the scriptures.I finally just asked him to just read the whole Bible several times instead of depending on other teachings. I don't think he really reads it that much. I think Calvinism must really appeal to intellectuals but they really need to have a better understanding of the workings of the Holy Spirit.
A conservative Baptism mentor of mi d lost his sight for 2 months and he couldn't read the Bible like he was used to. It was the best 2 months of his life as he began to pray and experience for the first time.
There is a profound difference in the pentecostal baptism of the Holy Ghost that the apostles received and what cessationists call the baptism of the Holy Ghost today. This is not just some minor difference but a deep, doctrinal divide. I believe I can show with scripture that the true baptism is a necessary part of salvation. Until and unless this difference in understanding that special baptism is resolved, cessationists will continue to speak evil of us just as the church leaders spoke of Jesus saying He had a demon, as macarthur and others claim we have some "kundalini" spirit. Very dangerous words to say. They cannot dispute the baptism and gifts by scripture, nor find fault with the fruits of pentecostals and/or charismatics, so they mock the Holy Spirit himself. I personally believe this comes down to pride. Just as Davids wife was embarassed by David's dancing with all his might before the ark of the covenant, they are too proud to have their hair mussed or shout a little bit to glorify God. I truly fear for them on judgment day. May God pour out his Spirit like never before and may the cessasionists and others stop resisting it as the jews did and repent of their blasphemies.
Dr. Brown, I've come around some on continuation vs. cessationism, and your discussion with Jim Osman is what made me rethink it. They always say, that God cannot speak more authoritatively in one instance and less in another, equating anytime God speaks with being scripture. So if God speaks today, and it's not in scripture, it must be false. But you pointed out that Paul talks about how stories told ABOUT prophecy in the NT was not IN the Bible, but only referenced them, and they clearly weren't part of the Bible. I'm not a charismatic, but more open but cautious.
John Mac's definition of discernment is telling. It's not much different than the atheists argument against Jesus being divine, they don't find the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit through Jesus to be rational nor logical. You don't rationalize the work of the Holy Spirit, you discern it by faith and whether it adheres to Biblical standards. It's John Mac's very definition that causes him to miss out on the fact the Holy Spirit is working in the same manner as He did in Biblical times. Because the bible says God never changes, _rationally_ we must assume John Mac is dead wrong!
Tess W The Holy Spirit is NOT working the same way He did in the Bible. God's immutability is in His attributes, not in His emotions or in His dealings with man.
Justin Reed The Holy Spirit IS God, His attributes INCLUDE healing as He is the One who gives gifts as He pleases. His attributes don't change, you are correct. Each person of the Godhead has their own attributes that do NOT change. 😊
Justin Reed Is there a Biblical argument to why the holy spirit is not working as he did in biblical times? Or is that a conclusion you've come to by viewing the church in this modern age?
Lizica Dumitru The words of Jesus are a good place to start. He rebuked people who need signs and wonders in order to believe. Even more importantly than that, He said that in the last days it would be false teachers who use signs and wonders to amass followers. His exact words, if I remember correctly, were "lying signs and wonders", which is a perfect description of the counterfeit, phony "gifts" being displayed in charismatic churches. By the way, I AM NOT a strict cessationist. I don't believe that gifts have necessarily ceased; I just haven't seen or heard any example of someone using them in way that is consistent with their use in the Bible.
Dr. Brown, you have to understand that what Dr McArthur, said , I am sure he does not reject spiritual experiences that someone may have. I had a very vivid experience with the Lord. But I think that he rejects those who use emotional hooks or even mysticism to draw those who are looking for experiences and not for understanding or knowledge. Spiritual experiences are very private, only you know it but it follows real faith and relationship with the Lord which should start with repentance and faith. Yes you sometimes want to shout or cry or express your joy and that’s fine since the Spirit can awake in you those feelings for the love you have for God and His word.
Ezekiel Chapter 31 1And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness? 3Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. 4The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. 5Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. 6All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. 7Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. 8The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 9I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. 10Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 11I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness. 12And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him. 13Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches: 14To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit. 15Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him. 16I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. 17They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen. 18To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.
2 Timothy 4:3. Itching ears are ears trained by "rational thinking". Seeking teachers such as MacArthur leads believers into an incomplete, powerless and faithless walk. Tell me, who in this world would want this for believers? We all know the answer to that.
I just wanna add in regards to whether or not it's for today. If you say God doesn't prophesy through people anymore or heal or give dreams then you better right off the entire bible and come up with a new one. God did it since Genesis all the way to revelation and to say that God doesn't do what He has done since before the holy spirit was ever given and did when Jesus was here and after the holy spirit has been given means that you think God changed. God doesn't change and the way He speaks doesn't change. It's as much for today as it was since Abraham Issac and Jacob
I could not agree more! I think that must be the most concerning thing I have ever heard, JM say. That's like saying Moses was into some weird mysticism when he fasted and prayed for 40 days. Lord help us!
I am of Dr. Michael Brown. I am of Dr. John MacArthur. Sound familiar? I perceive that the Father is calling us to maturity. We MUST stop devouring each other, we are commanded to LOVE one another. Thanks Michael
I lean toward Macarthur's ideas on 'practice' and I don't think he's ever been quoted as taking scripture out of context. If he has, I've yet to hear/see it. I think his denouncing of tongues, healings, whatever, is really based on scripture and the 99% abuse of 'gifts' on the other side of the isle. I have no doubt that God is still working in this world the very same way that He always has, just like I have no doubt when I walk into a church of five thousand speaking in tongues that they're probably all just speaking gibberish from an emotional want to know God more. I've also witnessed a pastor preach on the street in total English and witness for over a week to a Spanish couple who heard every word out of his mouth in pure Spanish. I don't doubt it. It doesn't surprise me. I praise God for it! I think Macarthur's (can't speak for him, so just me then) problem is the whole 'give an inch, take a mile' deal. It's SO EASY (I know, I've done it) to push things like that through emotion and want and abuse it. I'd say 'tread lightly' on both sides and I agree: Truth is what we ALL want! God Bless!
To tell you the truth one only experienced something like this but once or twice. Most of the time one been dealing with guilt over sins I can't seem to stop and a lack of desire to read the Word, and occasional panic attacks about the fear of apostasy. Many times i don't want to read the Word, but i "want to" want to. I want that desire. I believe in the Holy Spirit and His gifts for today. I just haven't experienced them.
For our salvation, we trust Christ's work on the cross alone, not our personal emotional experiences. Let's not place our faith in our emotional experience. Walking daily with our Lord may or may not include emotions, but will always include prayer, meditation on scripture, and obedience, even in our usual mundane routines.
You know, when you realize that God is the Author of all things it does fill you with joy. But I like Dr. MacArthur never made a emotion filled profession of faith. My Church would sing Just As I am until someone would come forward. I still remember almost every word to that song. It was like it was our decision whether or not to follow Jesus. I made no such decision. He chose me. God did it all. I hate sin and my sinful nature and I am thankful for God's forgiveness and mercy. He has put in me a spirit of thankfulness and discernment. Therefore, I am not on a Spiritual High. Playing by your emotions is dangerous because our feelings are part of our sinful nature and they are subject to change at any moment. After God let me know I was His, then I could turn to Him and turn to His Scripture that He wrote and read and accept it all rationally. I believe it...every word of it because my rational mind never changes but my emotions and feelings do.
As you can see by John MacArthur's own words he has very little understanding of the Holy Spirit, but what is worse is that he is teaching people the same.
I took his statement as saying that he thought the reason that someone was wearing a hole in a wooden floor was because they thought there was something mistical about the location were they were praying. I don't think he was saying don't pray but why should someone think we should pray in exactly the same place and position? The Great prayer warriors I know aren't wearing holes in floors because they are out doing stuff and they aren't going to be in the same place when they pray. We don't have to be in the same place for God to be able to find us.
I think the problem with the charismatic churches is that they think every spirit (of truth) that comes to them is good and not discerned which has caused people like John MacArthur to be very wary and even anti to all charismatic behaviour.
Pastor MacArthur and multitudes of others, are closed minded cessationists who have not received the fullness of the Holy Spirit and are very much afraid to do so.They quill the work of the Holy Spirit and no doubt grieve Him in so doing.Let God be God and administer the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, increased faith, the gifts of healing, the gift of miracles, prophecy, the discernment of spirits, diverse kinds of tongues, interpretation of tongues anyway that He pleases as we will grow and He will be Glorified and His Will ,well be done. !
Funny how they give modern worldy definitions to the spiritual gifts which make them just natural abilities. There's nothing spiritual about them except that the Holy Spirit could help you do them better. But there's only 9 gifts listed in scripture in 1 Cor 12 and then the forgot and most important one--LOVE--in 1 Cor 13. The Holy Spirit taught me about the gifts before I even knew there were gifts! I thought I was going crazy or had a brain tumor or something!
That line about him thinking he understood everything in junior high is disturbing and the fact he didnt realize his mistake after uttering that is even more so.
Rationality is antithetical to Biblical faith.If something can be rationalized, it does not require faith anymore.Faith deals with what cannot be rationalized because it deals with the unseen, while rationality is limited only to the seen.As much as I admire and respect Dr John MacArthur, he is wrong on this one.I also feel deeply sorry that he has never experienced the Presence of God.What a tragedy.Dr Brown is 100 percent correct on this one.Thank you sir. While I do acknowledge that there most certainly are abuses and perhaps sometimes even manifestations that are not real on the side that embraces the supernatural, the truth of the matter is that cessationism is not Biblical.
John comes across as if God,Christ,Bible theology,everything to do with Christ,etc.as someone who strived to get a masters and any kind of high degree in one area.no doubt he loves,respects,honors God but its like a subject he is an expert in with facts,logic.yet he never has felt any thing supernaturally to his spirit.something is missing with him.
The problem that sometimes occurs when people get caught up in the emotional side of religion is they don't get rooted in Christ, but instead base their relationship with God on feelings. Emotion has to be tempered with reason, but reason also has to be tempered with humility before God and understanding there are things beyond our ability to understand. Inevitably we will make the wrong call and either step out when God didn't call us, or miss out on a blessing God had for us. And that's ok. God loves to use our failure to demonstrate His power and grace. I completely understand this man's reservation and I'm pretty sure I've witnessed the sort of thing that ran him off. When people use God to feel good rather than following after Him whether it feels good or not, that's when they get in danger of maligning the word of God. A relationship with Christ is an all consuming love that ultimately overcomes addiction to sin, not a new addiction to replace the old. Still, this man also seemed rather narrow minded. I think he, like me, is from a culture that strongly encourages suppression of emotion and discourages expression of it, and I think he's let this cultural upbringing limit who God can be to Him. I believe I've felt the presence of God before, and it is wonderful, but I also get uncomfortable/tired very quickly because I'm not used to letting myself feel that much. I'm learning.
Dr Brown is right. I'll tell you, Christianity in America is way way far behind concerning the signs, wonders and gifts of God. If you have never been to countries where the poor and needy are, then you won't see the real power of God on a daily basis. I don't necessarily mean that God does not move powerfully in the US, but He rewards those who seek him and conforts the poor and needy with signs and woders. When was the last time anyone heard a man of God resurrecting another person by the power of God? I mean i never heard in the US, but I've heard and know the person, which by the way lives in Brazil. How about the crippled walking again by the doctrine of laying hands? Yes, we are far away from the real apirtual world. But God is mercy and Salvation.
So MacArthur rejected spiritual disciplines and experiences based on the intellect and maturity of an adolescent? No good, my bro, not good at all. Much more likely that a fear of deep emotion is the root of this.
I’m sure that is not what John McArthur meant. I know he loves God’s presence and feels joy simply over the fact that he is saved. I believe he wanted to give warning to people who pray many hours without true knowledge of God. Rejoicing in God is great. But rejoicing in what kind of God has to be defined first. It’s actually true that sadly we witness many folks in the church who do not know whom they worship.
To my understanding, it is only nonsense to those "who are perishing." I believe we are to serve the LORD with ALL of our minds. This is discernment. "Deep and rich" should never come at the experience of our calling to use wisdom and understanding that even Christ was not known for long and extravagant prayer. Faith is not married to the experiential. Now, though I disagree with you Dr. Brown, I love you. I love your book on Breaking the Stronghold of Food. Thank you for your contribution brother! - jones
1 Corinthians Chapter 14 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. 26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40Let all things be done decently and in order.
And... Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. But hey these guys on including McArthur know better than Jesus, right?
All Souls TV Disclaimer: I don't agree with MacArthur's position on this, at least not as I have heard it. However, do you believe liars and murderers can be saved? Because the Bible says all liars will have their place in hell, and no murderer has eternal life. If you're going to apply those passages as strictly as you apply to ones about the mark, then you would have to say that it's just as impossible for a liar, murderer, or anyother kind of sinner to be saved.
+Justin: Since on this very page you have lied, both slandered me and lied about what Paul is teaching in 1 Corinthians 14 (incredibly trying to twist the very passage where Paul says he speaks in tongues more than them all because it edifies the one doing it, 14:4, 18), you had better deal with what your own lies say about you.
And in my opinion , Mr. MC. Arthur , sometime you seem to be quite arrogant and not humble . ..... maybe you don't know that .....I think , you mean well , but that is not always enough . ... and you should consider, that you might be wrong !
3 года назад
I always teach that we start by faith but we need to seek experience with God!
I don’t know, two syllables of gibberish have never convinced me as biblical. The tongues of the Book of Acts were living languages spoken by people who never studied them before, not repeat “you should’ve bought a Honda” faster and faster.
Frank Pichardo I believe tongues are for both translation and also utterances to the Lord. There are def some who just talk gibberish tho! Lol! I have friends who were just praising God at home and it just had come over them to speak in tongues. I believe them. I have some gifts too but not speaking in tongues.. it just freaks me out too much! Gifts, It’s almost like Gods handing out random candy, devils putting out some poison candy to imitate, and still others putting out wrappers with rocks inside, just to bring you in.
Dr. Brown made an interesting point. But I guess God also needs people like Pastor John who always thinks logically. I feel bad for Pastor John for missing the feeling part though.
When Pastor MacArthur said that he was grateful that he was delivered from this seeking of transcendental experiential faith, he was not saying that he was against spending hours upon hours on his knees in prayer seeking after God. I seriously doubt that MacArthur would tell someone essentially, "Pray less," or "There's no need to spend so much time on your knees because God already knows. Shut up and just go read your Bible." That's not what MacArthur is saying at all. What I believe Pastor MacArthur is referring to is this seeking of God's presence in a way that is not subordinate to any biblical parameters or interpretations. Praying until you feel something or hear a 'still small voice,' is not commanded anywhere in the Bible. Nor does the Bible describe prayer as a two-way conversation with God that gives special, specific revelation as to what your next move should be. This is exactly what people tend to think of when they pray, and if they don't experience anything spectacular during their prayer time such as: the sighting of a bright light, physical weakness, internal cleansing mourning, uncontrolled and uninterpretable babbling (what they think to be speaking in tongues), the sound of a still small voice, etc, which they assume to be the evidence of the Holy Spirit or a deeper entering into the presence of God, they doubt their faith. This is what is dangerous. These things have happened to people mentioned in the Bible, and I like other people feel a godly envy if such a thing exists, for the closeness to God that these people have experienced, but I am not commanded by the Bible to seek after these thing when I pray. Nor am I told that if I don't experience any of those things that I am not spiritual enough. The fact is, the heart is deceitful, and that can carry over into our walk with God. Instead of trusting his Word with all of our might as being sufficient, even when it comes to HOW WE PRAY, we seek after this transcendental, almost romantically personal relationship with God, when in this dispensation, his Word is how he primarily speaks to us. And by his Word ALONE do we even discern and interpret our relationship with him even when it comes to our prayer time. That's what I get from what MacArthur was saying. Know God by his grace through faith and the increasing knowledge and wisdom available in his Word. The fellowship of the Holy Spirit is what allows that.
Dylan Baker What I heard was that MacArthur found the stories that he had heard of "holes being wore into a wooden floor from praying so long in the same place" to be bizarre. I don't think that MacArthur would be against someone praying for hours, I surely hope that he wouldn't because the Apostle Paul instructs us to pray without ceasing and to be persistent in prayer considering that these are the last days. On the other hand, there is such a thing as contemplative prayer where people empty their minds so to speak and pray things to God and wait for a voice from Heaven, a wistle of the wind, a light shining down, and other such things as some sort of affirmation that God hears them and that they have been lifted up into his presence. From a biblical standpoint, I don't understand that. Praying for hours is not wrong in and of itself, yet there are some approaches that should be considered. Each time someone prays to the Father they are in God's presence whether they feel it or not. Sometimes God may grant by his providence feelings of joy, peace, strength, etc, but other times he may not. But whether or not we have those experiences shouldn't be an indication of how spiritual we are. Intimacy with God is a balance of knowing him through his Word which takes primacy, and spending time communing with him in prayer and obeying him. Somoone who prays for hours on end but is not theologically sound and doesn't seek a deeper intellectual understanding of God through his Word cannot claim to be in close fellowship with God.
Dylan Baker He was praying over people who spoke a language he wasn't trained to speak in. Tongues are not necessary today because the Gospel is spread all over the world and we have trained translators today.
Dylan Baker Ok. What I know is that "tongues" means foreign intelligible languages and those given the ability to speak foreign languages were meant to have translators so that others could understand what was being said. Tongues is not a special prayer language between us and God and it's not to be considered a sign of possessing the Holy Spirit or having reached some "higher level" or spirituality than other who don't speak in tongues. Paul told the Corinthian church that tongues are supposed to be translated so that the church could be edified (the church is made up of Jews and Gentiles) and that it was a gift not given to all Believers. Tongues, like all other gifts is for the building up of the church not for self-fulfillment (as if it could be since you wouldn't understand what you're saying.) I see no reason why we would need to speak in other languages today since we have translators as I said earlier.
Wow, “i couldn’t fathom hours of prayer on my knees before God”?!? From a brother like McArthur I suppose I’m not surprised by this statement but the statement itself sounds like 100% agnosticism
He's talking about "prayer" in the context of idly waiting for God to zap you with an emotional experience. He's not talking about the biblical concept of prayer.
Justin Reed Justin Reed “I’ve read things about people who wore holes in a wooden floor from praying so long In the same place. I couldn’t comprehend that.” .... no he was clearly talking about long amounts of time in prayer. Nice try though
Justin, If you read E.M. Bounds book on Prayer it has nothing to do with praying until you have an experience with God. It has to do with actually having the same fervent prayer life as Jesus and the early church. As someone who is actually reading that book now, MacAuthors statements are very concerning for someone in his position. Read the book and I'm sure you will agree.
I was a cessationist until only a few days ago because when I spent a short time in Bible college in 2003 I was taught that the gifts ceased once the Apostles had established the church. Then I listened to 1 Corinthians being read on RUclips all the way through in one sitting and I realized that the gifts could not have ceased because we are supposed to be using them when we gather. I also realized that what we call church bears very little resemblance to what was commanded in scripture.
God bless you brother
Very well said
Amen and amen!
God's promises
John 14:12-14, Mark 16:17-18
Mark 9:23, Luke 18:29-30
Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:22-24
James 4:2, mark 10:30
James 5:14-16, John 16:23-24, 1 John 5:14-15
1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
1 Corinthians 14:1&31
1 John 3:22-23, 3 John 2
(Psalms 35:27, Psalms 20:4
Psalms 37:4, Matthew 17:20
Psalms 34:15, Luke 17:6
Proverbs 10:22)(Romans 8:23, 2 Corinthians 8:9, Ephesians 3:20, 1 Corinthians 3:22, PHILIPPIANS 4:13)
That happened to me when I read Paul's letters in context. You can't get around the reality of what he was talking about. It would take a "special revelation" to believe in cessationism
As my husband lay dying, CPR was being performed. Naturally, I was quite distressed and weeping. Aloud, I began to pray and beg God to return him to me, to spare his life. After minutes of this, I felt a supernatural calm began to surround me and to my surprise I realized that I had begun to pray of my trust in Him and ask that not my will be done, but His. I was weeping, but desperation left me and the horrible shaking stopped. I watched as CPR was slowed and I knew my husband was gone. They were simply keeping up breathe till our son arrived. The strength and grace of the Holy Father gave me the ability to step up to the bed and say, "Stop. It is over." And I did so with peace.
Months later I bumped into a nurse that was there that day. She said the prayer and "the presence that came" was still amazing to that day. My Bible tells me the Comforter was there!
My heart aches for this pastor... to literally refuse this Holy Presence...oh my.
Sister, I don't want to try and compete with you by telling my own stories of the spirit so I won't. I just want to say thank you for your story. God bless you for sharing a part of your heart. Thank you. I know what you have shared is the living spirit. From the Lord. I wonder if maybe MacArthur never had an experience with the Holy Spirit because he has never been born again. I always wonder that. Or maybe God has not yet chosen to fully reveal that to him, and in His own time he will or He won't. We cannot know. I completely agree with Dr. Brown here. I hope for MacArthur that he prays on this and begins to explore this subject with God directly. Take it seriously and that one day he be opened up to understanding.
@@robertknight3354 At times I have wondered the same thing about John....but then...I think back at my own spiritual journey stating as a choir member and accoylte at the Wesley Methodist Church where cessionists were the standard fair. I was saved at 10 years old in a vacation bible school.The closest we came to the Holy Spirit at the Methodist church was through the singing of the " Doxology".at the end of every service..It was not until 20 years later, backsliding and searching for God, did I end up, through a series of supernatural divine appointments, in a Pentecostal Assembly of God Church. and receiving of the Holy Spirit shortly thereafter. I did not even realize that I was at a Pentecostal church until a few weeks after I had arrived but the Holy Spirit did a work in me. There are a great many sola scripture. cessesionists out there who think you are of the devil if you allow the Holy Spirit to manifest in your life. I cannot go so far as to doubt all of their salvations but do feel very sad for them that they have quelled the work of the Holy Spirit who has so much for them that they are missing. God Bless....Dana
Thank you for your story sharing....I must tell you...I was very close to my mother who died in the OR just before open heart surgery was to start. At her funeral, standing next to the casket, I felt that I should perhaps pray that God would raise her back to life....But...just as soon as I thought that...The Holy Spirit spoke loudly in my mind's ear !..DO NOT Do this, as your mother is now at peace with the Lord. I instantly felt the same Calm over me that you expressed and although I grieved my mother, I knew she was alright...yes she was saved...I asked the Lord to show me a sign in the upcoming years that she was indeed ok and also as a memorial to her.Every spring for the next few years a beautiful flower [ lilly] would grow in my front yard that had never been planted by me and would germinate in a different place. Lilly's just do not plant themselves in a different isolated area every year...unless planted by God.This went on for about 5 years in a row and then stopped...Dana
God bless you sister.
Bless you, Christ will help you x
There are some who want to study God, there are some who wants to know God.
Man, 3 years but this hit different!
Those are one in the same.
Amen. They are closely related, but different things.
I feel like most of my “prayer time” (I put it in quotes because I hesitate to call it genuine prayer) is spent thinking about theological concepts and logically sorting through ideas. To be honest though, I just want to shut it off and actually experience God. In the year that I’ve been born again I’ve had maybe 3 or 4 prayers where I actually “felt” Gods presence, and all I want is to feel His presence again. God bless you guys
Is it possible the logical element is experiencing God as well?
In my experience it’s when I began spending time with the lord in worship and prayer that I was filled with Holy Spirit, started having dreams and visions. I never had that experience before. I thought only ministers experience these things. Jesus withdrew and prayed frequently even all night. Hope my experience motivates you ❤
I am actually reading E.M. Bounds book right now and it's driving me into a deeper relationship. The fact that MacArthur is not driven to his knees by these writings and historical testimonies of men who prevailed in Prayer is EXTREMELY concerning. WOW! I will be praying for him. I had no clue it was this bad.
Fruit of the Vine Ministries He's missing something. He doesn't seem to realise that no one does these things to get saved. We are saved. People spend hours in prayer, because they want to commune with the God they love, who saved them from certain death, and delivered them into life through His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. Piety won't save you. It's just a natural response by those who have been saved. I said "a" natural response, not "the" natural response. We are never to judge by appearances. We are supposed to judge the fruit of a life. Amen.
Amen, well said!
Amen!
Why do you assume he is not driven to his knees. Do you know what happens when you assume. He is close to 90 years old and has forgotten more then you will ever know. Listen to his sermons on the holy spiritual and you will understand what he is talking about.
@@teslainvestor1743 we know he isn’t driven to his knees because he said he isn’t driven to his knees and that he “has never had an experience with God.”
I agree with Michael here. To many Christians believe it's necessary to strip the Bible and the Christian life of the [supernatural]. I agree that people can spread counterfeit messagesn of God; however, that doesn't mean we cannot have a real genuine "mystical" experience & supernatural fellowship with Him. If these men can believe that a virgin can give birth to a child without ever having sex, then all things are not only possible with Him towards us, but all (good) things are also [available] also, including those kinds of experiences and fellowship.
Ahmathyah Thomas Jefferson believed only the rational and morality of the Bible. He constructed his own “Bible” that had all of the miracles cut away and only left moral principles. I believe John MacArthur is closer to being a Jeffersonian moralist than an actual born of the Spirit believer. He might be born of the Spirit, but I think he is a very clever counterfeit.
Amen brother.
Amen. He also created the universe and he is not only our Savior but called us his friends.
Calvinists are known to pride themselves in their many books. Many have religious pride. Their founder himself, John Calvin, submitted unto the killing and banishment of those who did not conform to his theocracy in Geneva. John says that if you hate your brother you are a murderer and the love of God does not abide in you. Paul said he counted all his religious learning but dung that he might win Christ and be found in Him and to know Him. Heart knowledge and fellowship is more important than head knowledge.
yeah i like Macarthur a lot but i have always strongly disagree with Him when it Comes to the things of the Holy Spirit. John seems like his faith is just intellectual one and thats where it stops but He's really missing out on Gods presence!! really missing out! its sad
I think you and Mike are just misunderstanding.
In my early twenties, I spent a year in Tulsa, Oklahoma. At the time, in the late 1970s, that city was filled with churches espousing the word-faith doctrine. Suffice to say it opened my eyes to the real danger of not keeping your emotions in check.
I have witnessed numerous so-called pastors ‘teaching’ their flock to speak in tongues, and found myself joining in. Entire congregations, thousands of people, speaking in a language that no one understood and for which no interpretation could be given.
Prayer is essential to the health and strength of a believer. It is the practice that Jesus Christ demonstrated to be the only way to open our hearts to God.
Our hearts can and do rejoice at the hearing and contemplation of God’s Word, but chaos and confusion can ensue when we allow that personal conversation between us our Creator to devolve into a public display of heightened emotion.
I am not commenting here to castigate the man who made this video, he sounds like a grounded believer who kneels before the same Jesus who I worship.
I prefer what Jesus said how to pray: *in secret.* I've never attended many "churches" before, and still do not go to one.
@@Harpazo_to_Yeshua Christ does talk about when you pray in secret. As far as I know there is no mandate to pray in secret as in only praying and secret. I am curious to know exactly what scripture you're referring to Maybe that would help me to better understand exactly what you mean by what you wrote. What I am 100% certain about his hat the scriptures do tell us to forsake not the assembly of ourselves together. I'm curious if you're familiar with that?
If you think Dr MacArthur's faith is only "intellectual", then you're denying he is walking with and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And you've obviously never had anything to do with him or you'd know that was total nonsense. Do you honestly think this sanctified man of God who has consistently produced good fruit his entire life is spiritually inferior to Benny Hinn, a man who has made numerous false prophecies in public...Just because Dr MacArthur doesn't flop around on the floor spouting gibberish like an imbecile?
Get real.
I don't know. I find praying for 2 to 3 hours a day on my off days (when I don't have to get up and rush to work) deeply edifying.
I find my prayer life to be one of the most meaningful times of my life. It is an experiential thing when you feel God's spirit working in you.
That's good! Please pray for me (John Carpenter) and the church for which I am a pastor, Covenant Reformed Baptist Church. Please pray that the Lord build us up and defend us and give us fruit.
Same here. The divine office is like a mirror to my soul. I pray it 2x a day everyday as much as i can .
@covenant caswell , what do you think of pastor steve anderson?
Pretty sure John has made that statement that hes never felt Gods Spirit in any kinda mystical way a day in his life.
Sounds like Martin Luther before he was taught by the Holy Spirit [through the scriptures'] to stop looking for some kind of emotional experience and seek God through the Holy Spirit written words of God. I hope those many hours are founded in the words of God and don't wind up with the idiocy of the Sid Roth bunch. These folks are all great prayer folks. Some actually "experience" Jesus as he comes and sets on their beds at night and talk to Him face to face. And if you deny that their stories are true then who are you to deny their own "personal real experiences" with God? Someone is being deceived and if you believe these gifts are for today you can not deny any of their "real life experiences". You are silenced by your own belief system . You can't say "well some Charismatics just go to far". That is not an option --you opened a door you can never close. Good luck with that.
I find his take concerning. It’s funny, because I feel like there are two camps of Christians: the ones who experience the supernatural presence of God, and the ones who don’t.
When I was eight, I received Christ at a church my friend’s family took me to (my parents did not take me to church). After the service, I gave my life to Christ and received a baptism of the Holy Spirit and will never forget the experience- it was physical and felt like a loving vibration of electricity throughout my body. It was a constant wave that lasted a few minutes.
As I grew, I fell away, and a few years ago I repented and gave my life back to the Lord. A few months later, when I was sleeping, I woke up in the middle of the night with the same waves of love washing over me, and this time, although I kept my eyes closed, I saw fractals of a white dove pulsing in front of my eyes. It was so peaceful and I know that was the Holy Spirit.
So my experiences with the Lord have been supernatural and I am so grateful, because there is absolutely no denying him after all of that.
Yet, my mother-in-law who was raised in a very religious home has never had a supernatural experience. She is a believer and studies the Bible constantly, has had a much more “clean” life than I ever did (before my rededication) yet has never experienced or felt God in these ways. Actually, when I have told her about mine, her attitude is very similar to Macarthur’s. A bit of a “rolling of the eyes” feeling.
You see, our world is completely supernatural, God’s Spirit is supernatural. There is nothing “esoteric” about it. Why some believers experience him supernaturally and others do not, I’m not sure. But I am so grateful that I am one that does, because those were truly the most incredible moments of my life.
It makes me wonder, do Christians like John MacArthur and my mother-in-law have something in common? Is there a prideful spirit there? Have these believers ever truly had to humble themselves?
He speaks about how he was a football player and “normal” and he loved God and never experienced “weird stuff” when it came to God. It almost feels like being back in high school and the jock is picking on the nerd. And my mother-in-law is the same way. But I tell you this- God has a special love for the underdog, for the overcomers, and for the broken. And I would take the hardships and persecution of being a little “strange” and “broken” to have the privilege of experiencing God supernaturally. If that is what is contingent, I’ll take it.
Chrissy H
Why don't some experience the supernatural? Lack of belief. Even Jesus couldn't do miracles in some places due to their lack of belief. Faith enables the supernatural.
Tess W that is a good point. Perhaps believers who look at Christianity in a purely intellectual way are missing that one essential element- blind faith like a child.
"the ones who experience the supernatural presence of God, and the ones who don’t."
the supernatural is when God converts a sinner to Him.
Kendhal Tilùèn since we are all born sinners, wouldn’t we all experience this supernatural conversion? Does this mean that one is not converted if they don’t experience this?
I've had a similar experience to yours when being asleep. Awoke from a dream and had my whole body vibrating like a tuning fork. Pretty incredible. I've also been attacked spiritually in my sleep by spiritual things too, like waking up from dreams of paralysis and something smothering me.
In the gospels, each and every time someone "reasoned in their heart" in Jesus' Presence, He rebuked them for it. "Commonsense" is the diametric opposite of "Holy Spirit." If supreme rationality and logic were the prerequisites for comprehending God, then revivals would be breaking out at Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard & Yale, rather than in the slums of the world.
That is a great statement.praise God
From c.f. I meant
This is coming two years late. However I'm pretty sure Jesus was not using reasoning in a sense of using their minds. The problem was that they were trying to justify themselves. The more appropriate word would be rationale. Remember the language only had so many words. Its all about context. Reasoning goes both ways as this same Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for not being able to discern the times and for know knowing scripture. The did not serve the LORD with their minds.
Then you disagree with Dr Brown. He has to come to a rational conclusion with all his explanations when others attack the scriptures or else he can’t sleep. Just because someone wants to rationalize a concept or idea does not mean they are not saved.
yeah, loving the Lord mindlessly, that's how you do it. Why test the every spirit if it's from the God if your feelings are so real?
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, A ND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.””
1 Corinthians 1:19
John Wesley's early life and career was built around an intellectual approach to worship and finding God but falling short always. But then came the great change in his life when the Holy Spirit came into him and he knew it immediately. His brother Charles also became filled with the Holy Spirit and was quite exuberant after that for the rest of his life. He was continually praying, preaching and writing a hymn per day, sometimes a hymn would have 30 stanzas. That's how carried away by the Spirit he was.
Baltic Hammer Amen to that
He was converted at Aldersgate Street through a reading of Martin Luther's introduction to the book of Romans. He wasn't just filled with the Holy Spirit, he came to understand the gospel. Have you really understood it?
Baltic Hammer John Wesley came up with a new doctrine called entire sanctification. I grew up in a Weslyan church and I do not believe this is biblical at worst it’s a heresy.
Robert Harbitz II Believe you're referring to the "sinless perfection" or "Christian perfection", whatever label others like to give it. Far from a doctrine its more a concept or theory in relation to a goal that Christians should strive for. Really its emphasizing the commands and demands in the Bible for holy living and to keep Christians focused on that until we are truly sanctified in the end. No idea how that could be called heresy.
@@Baltic_Hammer6162
J.c Ryle wrote his book "holiness" to combat the holiness perfection doctrine which was popular in his day
“With God, all things are possible.” Moses spent 40 days with God, while waiting for the 10 Commandments to be written by the finger of God, on Mt. Sinai. ❤️ your show Dr. Brown.
There is a saying that I heard a long time ago. It settles many things for me, certainly when it comes to your John MacArthur's et al: 'A MAN WITH AN EXPERIENCE IS NOT AT THE MERCY OF A MAN WITH AN ARGUMENT.' I love your gentle and tender spirit Dr Brown. Please just keep going.
MacArthur said he has NEVER experienced "mystical" feelings of the Presence of God. The Bible speaks about the peace of God passes understanding of His love surpasses knowledge and of a joy that is unspeakable. These things are not part of MacArthur's experience. He is a man devoted to logically analyzing the scriptures. This could just as easily be said by a rabbi in Jesus' day.
Exactly
Peace that is described in Philippians 4:6-7 isn't refering to any mystical peace and outward peace. Its refering to inner peace that surpasses all human understanding. Its the peace inside that remains in the heart of saints in the midst of persecution.
That peace keeps our hearts and minds in union with Christ.
@@IntelNuggets our spirit and indwelling by the Spirit is *inherently mystical* because that is what the things of the spiritual realm are, beyond the senses.
The problem many have with Jmac us that he has hijacked the basic dictionary meaning of *mystical* to mean something unbiblical, wrong, crazy, Eastern, you name it.
So the effect of that mis characterization, *anything* that is our spirit in operation tends to be rejected.
MacArthur is a modern day example of a Pharisee.
1 Thessalonians 5:17 "Pray without ceasing".
Yes, there are many types of prayer, supplication etc. I think this one is meaning to say, be in communion with God at all times.
Wearing holes in the floor from praying for so long and heartfelt and respectfully is not mystical or transcendental. This is a dangerous thing that he is proposing to believers. If more people had the fear of God we would actually be praying on our knees even harder and longer. People in the Bible prayed for hours and hours, even days. They pleaded in love and fear with the Lord. When we see the Lord face to face in His glory we will fall to our knees, faint, tremble, because he is so sacred and humans can't even handle it. So no, praying and praying for hours or days is not crazy at all or related to some sort of wacky mystical experience. It's called reverence.
UNITY IN MESSIAH YAHUSHUA MINISTRIES
Where was he called "camel knees"?
HomeGrown
That's actually the kind of thing Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal for. Nowhere does the Bible promote torturing yourself to get God's attention. It actually teaches that He accessible at a moment's notice, if you're living a holy life.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints Ephesians 6
Study the life of Jesus , he spent many hours in prayer.
aptginc
He spent hours in prayer pouring out His heart before the Father, not waiting to be zapped with an emotional fit. What MacArthur was talking about in this clip is people who just sit idly, waiting to hear, see, or feel something from God.
MacArthur says "from my own personal experience" he found that "couldn't comprehend that behavior" and it was therefore wrong. Yet if a Charismatic refers to personal experiences for speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, etc. cessationist like MacArthur will come down on them like a ton of bricks.
A bit of a double standard isn't it?
You hit the nail on the head!
Sorry bruh, that's not accurate at all. You can say from his own personal lack of experience if you please. The point is what scripture has to say about it, and what the examples of scripture represent. Current day claims just don't hold-up under scrutiny when compared with the BIBLE accounts of the same thing. It's just that simple.
I think the biggest problems are that (except for Catholicism) all the scandal that brings a reproach on the name of Christ has come from the charismatic world. Additionally, the bulk of heretical teaching which is aimed at fleecing suckers also comes from there too, as big claims of health, wealth, healings, and miracles are packaged together to get "seed", "deliverance", and "breakthrough" money $$$.
In Matthew 7:22, Christ specifically names the antics of those who will say "Lord Lord" to him in that day. None of them talk about how they taught the scriptures in His name, but All of them talk about the signs they allegedly did. I know of no one who is only teaching Biblical truth and getting rich, buying mansions, and private jets. Again..It's only so-called charismatics. Honestly, why do you suppose that is?
@@fitnessguru8012 So where does scripture say that God should rescue us from fanatical prayer, then? "During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." Hebrews 5:7. In any case MacArthur dismisses the "irrational" hysterics of the charismatics on the basis of his own lack of anecdotal experience -- which is completely irrational hypocrisy in itself.
Also your last paragraph is absurd.
@@spyroninja If you have a question that specifically addresses something that I wrote, then you forgot to address that. Otherwise, based on the fact that all you wrote was irrelevant, I would have to conclude that you are a troll.
The Bible is clear there are 2 types of knowledge : information and experience. AND
we have to be strengthened by the spirit to move to experience which SURPASSES information.
Ephesians 3:19 (NKJV)
19 to know ( greek ginōskō experience , feel ) the love of Christ which passes
knowledge ( greek gnōsis information ) that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
here is the whole passage in context
Ephesians 3:14-21 (NKJV)
14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,
17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height--
19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
I would love to see a discussion with Dr Brown and John Mcarthur. Just a sit-down to clarify. Two intelligent and thoughtful believers with some differences.
Thing is MacArthur is not intelligent or thoughtful but a deceiving demon maskertering as a Angel of light. He thinks everybody is wrong except his Calvinist views. Thank God Francis Chan is not part of his clan.
@@aslanjudah33
Agreed!
I absolutely love John MacArthur. I have always taken issue with his strong stance of full cessationism and what he teaches about super natural experiences of believers. I've had several super natural experiences. They are real. The are a blessing from God to /his precious children. Words of knowledge are real. The gifts are real. Supernatural moments in prayer are real. I even heard him say once, that we can't cast out devils. With all that being said, he is still one of my favorite teachers. I love him and Dr. Brown.
Did you mean "can cast out demons" instead of "can't"?
@@delgado2010 no he said we CAN’T.
I believe that Pastor John is wonderful at exposing the flakes and counterfeits that have abandoned sound expository teaching of scripture. That’s why I love reformed theology. What he’s saying on fellowship with the Holy Spirit is simply expressing the point of allowing the spirit to sanctify, teach and guide us into a deeper richer understanding on the character and attributes of God and ultimately lining up with His will. I believe we can find some common ground without having to compromise sound biblical doctrine, but I do find that there is quite a bit more emphasis on the gifts of the spirit rather than His fruits. Allowing the Spirit to do His regenerate work in us is much more challenging and yet rewarding. It’s a work that’s not attributed to glorify and doesn’t draw attention to itself but gives us a solid footing on discernment that’s needed in the very deceptive age in which we live.
I agree with much of what you said, however you did highlight exactly the problem with MacArthur. To void the Word of God CAN obviously weed out the fakes because they will always rely heavily on spiritual personal accounts that nobody can verify to anoint themselves holy....that's true. Yet taking away the supernatural from the Bible is itself sacrilegious. It is editing Biblical Truth to spread the ideas MacArthur spreads on the topic. The Holy Spirit, the Comforter was sent to us. This is Biblical Fact. This is God's Will and Word. For anybody to insinuate that a person declaring the Comforter is naturally suspect is on serious dangerous ground. I myself am confused on why a Christian would even stand on this topic as a mission. Clearly the Bible states that we are in communion with the supernatural. The Holy Spirit. For a person to take up this cross against revelation of the Spirit to me is proof he or she does not have the Spirit. A man or woman of God answers only to God. A man or woman of the devil answers only to God. I pray that MacArthur is soon to be touched by the Lord and will receive what it is he doesn't yet have.
Amen, Carey, all the evil things that Charismatics do in their gatherings is not of the Holy Spirit, but it is of the Devil. God has given them over to a delusional mind. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12, speaks of Charismatics, because they are the ones who follow Satan and his lying signs and wonders. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.
@@robertknight3354 i apologize for being two years late, I just noticed your comment today. 🙂 I hope to keep this as a debate rather than an argument so I’d like to address some concerns with your argument. Yes the Holy Spirit indwells every believer. No one is saying other wise.
While you rally for supernatural experiences and say that we shouldn’t hold everyone accountable and be discerning in a deceptive age is on serious ground yet at the same time assume or denying that Pastor John does not have the Spirit of God. Do you see the irony here? No one here is arguing the fact the God the Holy Spirit is not supernatural. We’re simply pointing out the fact that we do not have the same measure of anointing by the spirit that the apostles were given. You’ll discover from the word of God that we only see God move in truly miraculous means when He’s endorsing someone or something. For example His law and deliverance through Moses. Verifying His word through the prophets Elijah and Elisha. When He raises up Judges with Sampson etc. all the way up to God the Son and His ambassadors ushering in the New Testament with those who met a particular requirement to preach His word. Now that we have the canonized Holy Bible, we don’t need the prophets of the Old. Not saying that God the Holy Spirit is not miraculously moving in our midst, God is sovereign not man so He does what He wills and pleases Him according to His own purpose and not man’s.
Also I didn’t realize there was a cross of denying the miraculous. Only the cross of suffering and bearing His shame. God bless you my friend. FYI the most miraculous workings of our time is the providential hand of God sovereignly accomplishing what He’s set out to do by bringing about His outcome. The Holy Spirit is very much intimate with fellowship when we walk in the light.
@@Festusband I don't disagree with anything you said. I concur with each point you have.
What I don't stand for is the type of nastiness that breeds in the reformed culture of which I am a part that has pastors sending its parishioners out into the world looking for people to "own", "destroy" etc.
I don't agree with the charismatic movement at all. But the issue is the way we are supposed to lovingly tell them they are wrong VS enjoying showing people how right we are, not caring about their soul at all but use our "wisdom" to rub their noses in mud. There is a difference. One is evil and hatred disguised. The other is a confrontation born of concern for an actual person. Don't get me wrong. Im not discounting a HARSH rebuke. Not against that at all. It is very loving to harshly pull somebody out of a fire.
@@Festusband Secondly, my problem is making it a mission to go after those who speak of the Spirit of God.
Yes the prophets are done.
Yes the tongues stuff is a game.
Yes new age is an infection.
There are people who attack this topic with the intent on winning souls for Christ with the gospel.
There are wolves in disguise who attack this topic solely with the intent on winning the argument.
Just to clarify again. I in no way mean to discourage a harsh rebuke. I'm talking about an inner nastiness much of the "baby Christians" in our reformed camp seem to have. You see them come and go from a thread having done nothing but drop an insult and leave. No concern for the souls. Making a long winded comment listing your "proof texts" and then hit the road.
Again, no real concern for a soul. A would be, could be sister or brother.
I for the life of me don't understand why JM has gone down some of these rabbit holes. Btw my comments on him and the Spirit weren't solely based on this video. He always seems bent on making sure you know he isn't charismatic by going hard against anything spiritual at all.
We worship a triune God.
So this means each member of the Godhead is to be worshipped.
I praise and pray on the glory of the Father the Son and definitely the Holy Spirit. Each deserves praise and worship.
You can do that without believing in
Tongues, prosperity gospel, modern prophets or new age. I'm sorry to offend anyone in St John's camp but it's true. None of this is possible without the Spirit.
I think waging this battle in the way he wages it is a bit sophomoric. I think it's a mistake. I think you risk shutting out the Spirit. I think you create a culture of internet head hunters. I think waging this battle in such a bullish way encourages strife.
We have the gospel. Smack somebody right in the mind and heart with it. It's good for them. And to the other commenter who essentially did the closed off, drive by .....you realize that a great many of the people you are talking about are winnable, right?
I think much of this approach is centered in bad eschatology.
Thinking the end is just at the door and everything we see is the wicked who are minutes away from death. We are just about to be saved from it and all we need to do is make sure we don't stand so close to them. More rotten fruit from a bad eschatology tree.
I pray JM ponders his friendship with R.C.S. a little more.
Weird. I was baptized in the Holy spirit when I was in my 20s. I'm so glad I never heard this because it would have caused me doubt and I never would have experienced this great gift. I was on fire for God, and with a smile on my face for days. It was the best experience I've ever had.
Pastor MacArthur has much to learn. I love listening or used to love listening to him until I heard his sermon on the Mark of the Beast.
He teaches a person can be saved if they take it, which is a deplorable since we know those who take it are damned for eternity. How many will be led astray by him?
If belief in God were supposed to always be rational and logical, then there would be no faith required to believe it.
Ella gamberi bahaha....thank you!! I should have proofread what I said...as I usually do. :)
Taking the mark of the beast is a very serious false teaching by John McArthur. He has been called out on this issue by Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministires. He is a Jewish brother in the Lord and an excellent expositor of the word and like Dr. Brown is not a cessationist. You can view the video on RUclips. There is no mistaking or misunderstanding what John said. He very clearly teaches this heresy. This teaching is abominable. I used to go to the church where he shepherds. I have one of his study bibles and have read some of his books. I have always had a great deal of respect for him and considered him a great expositor of the scriptures. No more. This man frightens me. He denies the gifts of the Spirit which to me is almost analogous to blaspheme of the Spirit. His views in effect are encouraging those in the body to quench the Spirit. There will always be false manifestations in this area but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. That is why we are to test everything. Discernment is needed. But this teaching on taking the mark of the beast is when I could no longer view John as teaching sound doctrine. I will pray for him but I will not encourage others to listen to him any longer nor do I.
I am one year too late to answer this video, but let me give my 2 cents here:
I used to be Christian who loved Hillsong and similar Christian.....branches. Our youth group used to do do all these charismatic things....
I did not understand the criticism coming from the main part of our church. Today I do.
One day I started doubting everything I did in church. This sent me down a very dark path. Is that truly from God? Am I worshiping for the glory of God or am I singing to satisfy my emotional .... fix? In short, am I worshiping myself? Am I really moved or is it just the music? Etc.
Eventually I gave up on all of it.
It took me several years before I could crawl my way back to the Bible. In fact even now I am crawling.
My current position on spiritual movement is this:
Anyone who thinks he feels spiritually moved by God, I will not deny him that. Glory to God. But I myself cannot allow that to me. Before I can do any kind of worship again, I first need to learn more about my own faith. I need to learn the scripture, I need to learn obedience, and many other things.
Praise without love is only noise. However, my love for my Lord shall no longer be defined by feelings and emotions that I dont understand, but by my obedience. I must learn that (obedience). Until then, I must reject all emotional movement out of fear so that I may not fall into doubt again.
So, as Jon MacArthur said, this esoteric stuff, I also cannot accept that....at least not in my life. In any other persons life, if they can, wonderful. In fact I envy them. Any Christian who has a real and genuine encounter with Jesus, I envy them. I didnt experience it yet.
This post was a long time ago but if this reply makes it to you, and for others reading this, I just want to encourage you! You are so honest and it's amazing to see that your heart has remained tender when there's such pain and doubt and fear! Remember that doubt and fear and condemnation do NOT come from the LORD. He said that perfect love casts out fear, that their's no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus, and that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. God made our capacity for emotions just the same as our bodies, and He has commands for our emotions as well as for our bodies. Infact Jesus showed that the law was meant for our emotions as well as our bodies when he said the Pharisees were like white washed tombs obeying on the outside but dead on the inside. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks! And written in scripture are many commands for our emotions, "don't fear" "lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord" "love the Lord your God with all your Heart, mind, and strength" for example. So when you act in a way that causes your emotions to obey God in His word (such as sing to music, move your body in a dance, turn down the lights to eliminate distraction) you ARE obeying God. My encouragement to you is, yes! Read the Bible. Feed on it like it is manna from heaven. Draw all your strength from it. Meditate on it day and night. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you experience the word and be a doer of the word and not a hearer only. Apply the word to your emotions and bring your emotions in obedience to the word of God or "take every thought captive and bring it into the obedience of the Lord". So that means just by the three commands I listed for emotions from scripture, submit your fears to the Lord and meditate on scriptures that encourage faith and pray for a work of Holy Spirit beyond your power to change yourself. Sure listen to songs and worship if that encourages trust and faith because that's in obedience to the Lord. Praying for you now that the Lord brings you great joy in sweetness of His word and His Spirit, that He quenches the fear and voice of the accuser in your heart, and that faith rises up in you so your life may be overflowing with the fruit of the Spirit!
I pray our Lord reveals Himself to you in that way
I relate to this so much. Let me know on your spiritual walk if anything new has happened. Thanks 🙏 and Gxd Bless
Excellent words! Thank you so much for your ministry and teaching! You are such a blessing!
Yes , Mr. MC Arthur , you are missing something !
I was led by the Holy Spirit to read the Bible and to pray for Hours a Day. ....three Months before I was freed from many Demons . ... I only relied on God during this time . ..no-one in the Baptist Church helped or even believed me . ...I was told a true Believer could not have Demons inside . ..but I knew better . ..
and during this 3- Months - Process it was only THE HOLY SPIRIT, who guided and helped me through words of the Bible , Speaking into my mind and through Signs . ...
and three days before the Demons were cast out by 2 charismatic leaders at a charismatic Evangelisation- Weekend , Jesus told me that it would happen ....
and it did happen in such a mighty way....you can't imagine that . ...
and afterwards there was such a feeling of Holiness there . ...Holy Ground ! ! !
I had to put my shoes off ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
And others , too !
This kind of Experience you are missing , Mr. MC Arthur !!! So sad ! ! !
A true believer having demons inside? Where did the demon. Live? In the same vessel where the holy Spirit lives? I can't understand that. I'm asking sincerely for clarity
@@ezidimmakenneth7927 we are 3 vessels in one--Body, Soul (mind), and Spirit. Our spirit is dead, hardened, cold until the Holy Spirit indwells there and brings it to life. The soul/mind is us--what we think with. All contained within our body/flesh. Demons dwell in our flesh and interact with our minds. They do not reside in our spirit/where the Holy Spirit lives. It was a good 5 months probably after I was baptized by the Holy Spirit that Jesus took some of the demons from me. Others hid and waited. Then came back with a vengeance. I was in torment. The Holy Spirit won't chase the demons out for us. They may leave on their own or be cast out by Jesus and then the Holy Spirit will help us close those doors. But if we continue to sin we leave an open door and that's when they come back on the attack to destroy us rather than to keep us Satan's. They've pretty much lost us once we are saved so at that point it's either destroy us or try to keep us from working for God to our fullest ability. False doctrine produces demonic strongholds which keeps us from fully knowing God and hindering our walk. Demonic strongholds are like a computer virus planted in our minds that allows demons to slip their lies past our firewalls and insert malicious code. Only through God's Word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit can we break down those strongholds. Speaking God's Truth to the lies and trusting the POWER of the Word and Truth (Jesus' power essentially) to free us from those binding thought processes. That's why strongholds can sometimes be cast down as if cast out by a demon--its still Jesus doing the work.
@@tannerfrancisco8759 this is nothing but using language to obfuscate things. The body, the Bible says is the temple of the Holy Spirit. There's nothing you can point to in scripture to substantiate all these you've written here.
@@ezidimmakenneth7927 Greetings sir, this is coming quite late, but do you not suspect that if sickness and sin and uncleaness can dwell in a Christian demons might also be able to do so?
@@meshaelababio4593 Truth is that the scriptures make is abundantly clear that He that dwells in us is greater than he that is in the world...ie, the devil. The scriptures say that he that is born of God keepeth himself and the evil one toucheth him not. The scriptures say that we are seated with Christ far above principalities and powers, the scriptures say that our bodies is the temple of the Holy Spirit etc.In all of the teaching of the Bible about spiritual warfare, I never saw once where it advocated for exorcism as one of the strategies to employ. The sheer preponderance of scriptures show evidently that a child of God indwelt by the Holy Spirit cannot be indwelt by a demon as well.
Demons can attack Christan, can beguile them by causing them to believe lies, etc, but there's no single evidence of scripture to substantiate the fact that a child of God can be demon possessed.
Let God be true and every mans experience a lie.
We know that we have evidence in the Bible that a believers body being unredeemed yet is still possible to come under the affliction of diseases or even sin.
I'm young. Only 25 years old. I've been in quite a turbulent and trial of a time recently. A close family member had a mental breakdown, my grandmother passed away, my girlfriend of two years had a concussion and has been wrestling with fierce depression (as a result of her concussion, apparently that type of cranial trauma can cause mood fluctuations). On top of all this, I've been wrestling with deep existential questions; for example, I'm learning and wrestling with some of the more logical and philosophical reasons for believing God exists. My faith isn't in question, as I trust Christ and His perfection, but it's just a time of pressing as I'm learning how to discuss my faith with those who are more intellectual. I feel quite called to that area and it's a bit of an intimidating field.
In all of this, I realized I've completely missed the fact that I've been dropping my prayer time. I haven't sat and just experienced the Spirit as I used to. I know this video is three years old but thank you Dr. Brown for refreshing my view that God is a God who is with us, no matter the questions we ask or the struggles we go through. I need to experience His joy more than just Sunday morning worship. I need to pursue him every day and experience His life in prayer. Amen.
Thank you for exposing the lies of the religious spirit. MacArthur often MOCKS & BLASPHEMES THE HOLY SPIRIT
Dr. Brown may be the greatest Biblical scholar alive today, in part because he lives what he teaches so profoundly.
He is intensely involved in reaching all nations for the Lord Jesus.
Nothing is more important than that.
Dr. Brown does not dwell in proverbial ivory towers. His faith leads to his works, which is why God gives him such wisdom & discernment.
itsnotaboutme :
Get to know Wayne Grudem and John Piper too.
There is something more important, and that's doing it the right way.
yeoberry
When you take one verse and separate it from the surrounding verses, you're the one twisting scripture. When you try to change the subject to avoid dealing with the facts, you're the one who's being dishonest. I didn't start "spewing insults" until you asked for it.
Justin Reed :
You’re lying.
I’ve had experiences with God that made me wonder how much of it was my imagination. But they transformed me into a different person. Other people noted a positive difference in me. But I couldn’t explain them rationally.
I have a saying, "If it's God, it's weird. If it ain't weird, it ain't God."
Dr Brown speaks truth! He doesn’t cause controversy and speaks out in love and truth.
I'm glad someone is publicly standing up to MacArthur, Justin Peters and the other Hyper-critics of the Cessationist/Calvinist movement.
I one time wrote am email to Justin Peters because if he was correct and I was wrong about God speaking to people then my entire conversion story is a complete lie. But I know it is not a lie.
True
Spirit of truth is alive today, I wouldn't believe in God if I didn't receive the Holy spirit, I don't know how can anyone believe without first experiencing God.
But blessed are those who didn't see and believed.
We walk by faith and truth not by feelings but we have feelings strong feelings that can and many times are strong waters that guide us to live and love the truth with our hearts not just our objective minds. Feelings are beautiful but easily deceived but feelings can enhance the great love we have of Our Lord and His ways. The feeling of sheer gratitude and brought to tears by the Lord washing the feet of the sinner and apostle, His words as he was strung up, "Forgive them Father! They know not what they do!" The feelings overflow in a sheer explosion of guilt love amazement and extecy that this is GOD! LET ALL GAZE ON HIM AND HIS EVERLASTING TRANSCENDENT LOVE! LET US BOW, KNEEL, PROSTATE OURSELVES IN HIS PRESSENCE FOR HE IS HOLY BEAUTIFUL MERCIFUL AND JUST OUR GREAT KING! I feel GREAT emotion and sentimentality how could you not be just excited? Now those feelings do not mean that they are true, if I did not posses those feelings they would still wholly be true but those feelings wrap truth around my heart in a warm embrace with a strong grip to never let go. Sometimes indeed our feelings are just but not because we simply feel them.
There is a profund difference between knowing about God and actually knowing Him. Eternal life is knowing Him (John 17:3).
Dr. Brown. I agree with you. We need more than an intellectual basis with regard to faith in God. Our knowledge of God ought to be more than intellectual in nature - i.e. knowing ABOUT him from his Word. In fact, I remember the days when many of us evangelicals went around sharing our faith using the 4 spiritual laws, exhorting and challenging people to have a "personal relationship with God" - yes, a PERSONAL one. The fellowship of the Holy Spirit is indeed necessary. Sadly, fear of the unknown is what seems to have kept him from truly understanding this truth that you have highlighted in the above video. Thank you for your balanced approach with respect to the Holy Spirit.
I knew there was NO WAY John MacArthur could have EVER have had an encountered the POWER of the Holy Spirit and held a Strange Fire conference. Father, help him.
so grateful for the sweet, charitable way you present this! i also have come around to your way of thinking, in that, though i was Baptist and have never spoken in tongues, or directly seen or had a full on miracle, i think it is far wiser to be silent and give people the benefit of the doubt. by their fruits ye shall know them. God is sure not bound to or by my opinion, or understanding. I also read Bounds book as a teen. I tried it for a while. It is hard to maintain that level of prayer! Yet, it was a good sweet time, and it sure did me no harm. I love John M., but cant say i think he always gets it right
When my grandson was dying we all were praying nonstop for a miracle.alone one nite in my bathroom my soul?spirit?knew God was taking him home.in that devestating,gut wretching moment i felt a huge presense in the room with me and in my thoughts i clearly heard"i will get u through this and his mother too".a calmness,a peace went thru me.strength i did not know i posessed got me thru the next few days as he died,thru the burial,helping his mom overcome anger,grief,guilt.i miss him so much but i know God was and still is with me today thru that dark time.supernatural?you bet it was
EXCELLENT point challenging Dr Mac’s insistence that God only deals with us in the context of rational process. Well done!
The problem that sometimes occurs when people get caught up in the emotional side of religion is that they don't get rooted in Christ, but instead base their relationship with God on feelings. Emotion has to be tempered with reason, but reason also has to be tempered with humility before God and understanding there are things beyond our ability to analyze. Sometimes our feelings are just feelings, other times it's really God. Inevitably we will make the wrong judgment call and either step out when God didn't call us, or miss out on a blessing God had for us. And that's ok. God can use our failure to His glory just as easily as our success, more so, from what I read in scripture.
I completely understand this man's reservation and I'm pretty sure I've witnessed the sort of thing that ran him off. When people use God to feel good rather than following after Him whether it feels good or not, that's when they get in danger of maligning the word of God. A relationship with Christ is an all consuming love that ultimately overcomes addiction to sin, not a new addiction to replace the old. Still, this man also seemed rather narrow minded. I think he, like me, is from a culture that strongly encourages suppression of emotion and discourages expression of it, and I think he's let this cultural upbringing limit who God can be to Him. I believe I've felt the presence of God before, and it is wonderful, but I also get uncomfortable/tired very quickly because I'm not used to letting myself feel that much. I'm learning.
I love the Presence of God!
I like the premise that "Do we want all of what God has for us"? Yes. I think it's a great starting point, because it would appear that some people do not want that. So great starting point.
It seems like MacArthur might be digging in his heels, overshooting even his own experiences in his statements just to prove his point. How does he view the experiences of so many in the Bible? - King David dancing with all his might, the words of the Psalms, Anna the prophetess never leaving the temple, Paul caught up to paradise hearing inexpressible things. The Spirit speaks in groans. The creation groans. We groan for our redemption. No, experiences and emotion don't define truth, but they certainly can flow from the truth.
Wow! I completely respect Dr. John MacArthur but he is most definitely putting a limit on what the Holy Spirit does. Just because he has not experienced the Holy Spirit as other believers in Christ does not make it not true. That being said there is most definitely a counterfeit spirit in a lot of charismatic churches but it does not mean all of it is false.
4:22 I can't honor MacArthur as an elder . He uses his negative arrogance to make a lot of money while criticising anyone that dates to believe God to be their source for living.
The church does not need a narcissist.
i agree with you..
Can you give any examples of that? When was pastor MacArthur arrogant? How is he making lots of money?
@@TheBeard147 haha just look on youtube. there are many videos that indicate this
John MacArthur is very judgemental.
If spiritual gifts go off the rails you use Discernment.
You don't call all spiritual gifts wrong.
I had the chance to preach to a young woman and God delivered her from Santeria and Witchcraft, along with another pastor we minister to her and she got set free from all these demonic practices. she grew up so much in spiritual life, and for years was so full of the Holy Spirit, the she went to a Christian college and I never thought it was a Calvinist one, after several years her doctrine was affected and she moved from our charismatic church to a Baptist one. Years later I received the news that she layered hands on a young woman and prayed for her and some evil force manifested in such an extensive way that the young girl started making noises as she was possessed by demons and a deliverance started to take place, but the Calvinist pastor arrived and told her not to pray any more because those things should not happen in their church building and that it was not part of their believes. Very weird...they saw the power of God and they denied it...very sad, and unfortunately my ex disciple decided to stay at that Baptist church
Macarthur reminds me of King David's wife; how she rebuked David for dancing and singing praise to the Lord in the public presence of the people. From her standpiint, she was aashamed that he emphatically expressed his love for God for worhsipping God with every fiber of his being in song and dance. I think that Almighty God dealt with her accordingly. ANyone who tells me I am nuts for glorifying God, is indifferent to the holiness of God
To the sanctified mind, faith is Bible says it is an assurance and an evidence. It is not about the 5 senses. But to the saved individual who has a faculty within him to substantiate things unseen, faith makes absolute sense to the spiritually minded. Anything that does not satisfy your mind cannot be a liveable conviction. I agree MacArthur. I thought he meant that we should be stoics without feelings, only for you to mention that quote which showed he wasn't advocating for that.
Faith will never make sense to the natural mind, otherwise, they'll become saved.
How can you not have an emotional response when you contemplate God's love and forgiveness, or deliverance from a situation in which you were doomed if God did not intervene? When you consider God's grace upon you even though you know you are unworthy? When God chose you be one of the few to be considered His special possession that will be saved from His wrath that is coming upon the rest of the world, isn't jumping up and down for joy an appropriate response? Dancing and shouting? Doesn't God's word encourage this? Isn't joy one of the fruit of the Spirit? I understand and agree that there needs to be a proper balance, and I agree that there are abuses by some charismatics, but with all due respect to Dr. McArthur whom I regard highly, I think he greatly errs in condemning all emotionalism and associated worship music because that hasn't been his experience. I mean, GREATLY errs. I've experienced being filled with the Spirit in a tangible way, where I couldn't even go to sleep at night because of the spiritual "high", yet my personality is lowkey. But I understand that God deals with different people in different ways, and I shouldn't make judgments based on my individual experience (unless they are extreme and unbiblical).
It's so sad to see these extremes on both sides. I grew up Pentecostal and I remember an Evangelist called Yiye Avila; especially the power of the Lord Jesus on his life. I'll never forget my skeptic friend trembling and it wasn't cold. I told him it's in his mind, and that he should calm down. He asked why I was making fun of him; I told him that it's one thing to talk about God's presence, and it's another to experience it.
Having said that, we're NOT to be led by experiences and emotions, but by what's written in scripture. The next and most important thing, pray and fast always. God's goal isn't to get you on TV; but to get you in communion with The Lord of Glory - Yeshua Ha Mashiah! Blessed be His Name forever.
BTW, Yiye Avila was of Sephardic ancestry, not that that matters; Jesus Christ is what matters.
Thank you Dr. Brown for sharing.
Dr. Brown, there is a person who has a watermelon. He touched it, measured it, even cut it and smelled it, and teaches others all about watermelon. But he never put it into his mouth. How would he know what watermelon tastes like? It seems to me that John MaCarther is like the person who majored in Watermelon but do not know how it tastes.
With all due respect of Dr. Brown's experiences, just because one has not yet experienced the joy of these experiences (as Pastor MacArthur relates) does not make them invalid, or unbiblical. Dr. Brown should be focusing on the unbiblical, demoniac, Jezebelian influences of this world. Do not become distracted by "splitting hairs".
I would respect John MacArthur a whole lot more if I felt he was telling the truth in LOVE! Maybe it's just the way he comes across, but I hear a lot of truth from John Mac, but not much LOVE. When he "stands for the truth", it strikes me as coming out of a heart of bitterness, anger, sarcasm, arrogance, or dare I say even--envy. Contrast that to the way Jesus, or Paul, or even Dr. Brown warns people about false doctrine, it comes out of a heart of compassion for people, wanting to keep them from deception, because they grieve for people's souls--I don't hear much compassion from John Mac. But don't tell his followers that! To them, he can do no wrong. They would like to make John Mac the fourth member of the Godhead. Thank you, Dr. Brown, for your balanced approach to not only scripture, but for people
Thank you Jesus we can experience God‘s presence in our lives in our relationships!
My brother -law an Calvinist married to Pentecostal Spirit filled wife, go figure, he was not even saved when they got married. Really got riled up when I shared this video on Facebook. He kept post Calvinist views and I just kept posting the scriptures.I finally just asked him to just read the whole Bible several times instead of depending on other teachings. I don't think he really reads it that much. I think Calvinism must really appeal to intellectuals but they really need to have a better understanding of the workings of the Holy Spirit.
There's no reason why someone can't believe in "Calvinism", that is "the doctrines of grace", and being filled with the Spirit.
A conservative Baptism mentor of mi d lost his sight for 2 months and he couldn't read the Bible like he was used to. It was the best 2 months of his life as he began to pray and experience for the first time.
There is a profound difference in the pentecostal baptism of the Holy Ghost that the apostles received and what cessationists call the baptism of the Holy Ghost today. This is not just some minor difference but a deep, doctrinal divide. I believe I can show with scripture that the true baptism is a necessary part of salvation. Until and unless this difference in understanding that special baptism is resolved, cessationists will continue to speak evil of us just as the church leaders spoke of Jesus saying He had a demon, as macarthur and others claim we have some "kundalini" spirit. Very dangerous words to say. They cannot dispute the baptism and gifts by scripture, nor find fault with the fruits of pentecostals and/or charismatics, so they mock the Holy Spirit himself. I personally believe this comes down to pride. Just as Davids wife was embarassed by David's dancing with all his might before the ark of the covenant, they are too proud to have their hair mussed or shout a little bit to glorify God. I truly fear for them on judgment day. May God pour out his Spirit like never before and may the cessasionists and others stop resisting it as the jews did and repent of their blasphemies.
Dr. Brown, I've come around some on continuation vs. cessationism, and your discussion with Jim Osman is what made me rethink it. They always say, that God cannot speak more authoritatively in one instance and less in another, equating anytime God speaks with being scripture. So if God speaks today, and it's not in scripture, it must be false. But you pointed out that Paul talks about how stories told ABOUT prophecy in the NT was not IN the Bible, but only referenced them, and they clearly weren't part of the Bible. I'm not a charismatic, but more open but cautious.
John Mac's definition of discernment is telling. It's not much different than the atheists argument against Jesus being divine, they don't find the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit through Jesus to be rational nor logical. You don't rationalize the work of the Holy Spirit, you discern it by faith and whether it adheres to Biblical standards.
It's John Mac's very definition that causes him to miss out on the fact the Holy Spirit is working in the same manner as He did in Biblical times. Because the bible says God never changes, _rationally_ we must assume John Mac is dead wrong!
Tess W
The Holy Spirit is NOT working the same way He did in the Bible. God's immutability is in His attributes, not in His emotions or in His dealings with man.
Justin Reed
The Holy Spirit IS God, His attributes INCLUDE healing as He is the One who gives gifts as He pleases. His attributes don't change, you are correct. Each person of the Godhead has their own attributes that do NOT change. 😊
Tess W
Healing is an act, not an attribute.
Justin Reed Is there a Biblical argument to why the holy spirit is not working as he did in biblical times? Or is that a conclusion you've come to by viewing the church in this modern age?
Lizica Dumitru
The words of Jesus are a good place to start. He rebuked people who need signs and wonders in order to believe. Even more importantly than that, He said that in the last days it would be false teachers who use signs and wonders to amass followers. His exact words, if I remember correctly, were "lying signs and wonders", which is a perfect description of the counterfeit, phony "gifts" being displayed in charismatic churches. By the way, I AM NOT a strict cessationist. I don't believe that gifts have necessarily ceased; I just haven't seen or heard any example of someone using them in way that is consistent with their use in the Bible.
Dr. Brown, you have to understand that what Dr McArthur, said , I am sure he does not reject spiritual experiences that someone may have. I had a very vivid experience with the Lord. But I think that he rejects those who use emotional hooks or even mysticism to draw those who are looking for experiences and not for understanding or knowledge. Spiritual experiences are very private, only you know it but it follows real faith and relationship with the Lord which should start with repentance and faith. Yes you sometimes want to shout or cry or express your joy and that’s fine since the Spirit can awake in you those feelings for the love you have for God and His word.
Ezekiel
Chapter 31
1And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
3Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
4The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
5Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
6All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
7Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
8The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
9I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
10Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
12And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
13Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
14To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
15Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
16I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
17They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
18To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.
2 Timothy 4:3. Itching ears are ears trained by "rational thinking". Seeking teachers such as MacArthur leads believers into an incomplete, powerless and faithless walk. Tell me, who in this world would want this for believers? We all know the answer to that.
I just wanna add in regards to whether or not it's for today. If you say God doesn't prophesy through people anymore or heal or give dreams then you better right off the entire bible and come up with a new one. God did it since Genesis all the way to revelation and to say that God doesn't do what He has done since before the holy spirit was ever given and did when Jesus was here and after the holy spirit has been given means that you think God changed. God doesn't change and the way He speaks doesn't change. It's as much for today as it was since Abraham Issac and Jacob
Solid teaching!
I could not agree more! I think that must be the most concerning thing I have ever heard, JM say. That's like saying Moses was into some weird mysticism when he fasted and prayed for 40 days. Lord help us!
John what about Leonard Ravenhill. Prayed all night for years.
The problem is that, like so many other people, Dr. MacArthur attributes the presence of the Holy Spirit to a feeling.
It's obvious that you have never listened to Dr. MacArthur
I am of Dr. Michael Brown. I am of Dr. John MacArthur. Sound familiar? I perceive that the Father is calling us to maturity. We MUST stop devouring each other, we are commanded to LOVE one another. Thanks Michael
I lean toward Macarthur's ideas on 'practice' and I don't think he's ever been quoted as taking scripture out of context. If he has, I've yet to hear/see it. I think his denouncing of tongues, healings, whatever, is really based on scripture and the 99% abuse of 'gifts' on the other side of the isle. I have no doubt that God is still working in this world the very same way that He always has, just like I have no doubt when I walk into a church of five thousand speaking in tongues that they're probably all just speaking gibberish from an emotional want to know God more. I've also witnessed a pastor preach on the street in total English and witness for over a week to a Spanish couple who heard every word out of his mouth in pure Spanish. I don't doubt it. It doesn't surprise me. I praise God for it! I think Macarthur's (can't speak for him, so just me then) problem is the whole 'give an inch, take a mile' deal. It's SO EASY (I know, I've done it) to push things like that through emotion and want and abuse it. I'd say 'tread lightly' on both sides and I agree: Truth is what we ALL want! God Bless!
To tell you the truth one only experienced something like this but once or twice. Most of the time one been dealing with guilt over sins I can't seem to stop and a lack of desire to read the Word, and occasional panic attacks about the fear of apostasy. Many times i don't want to read the Word, but i "want to" want to. I want that desire. I believe in the Holy Spirit and His gifts for today. I just haven't experienced them.
For our salvation, we trust Christ's work on the cross alone, not our personal emotional experiences. Let's not place our faith in our emotional experience. Walking daily with our Lord may or may not include emotions, but will always include prayer, meditation on scripture, and obedience, even in our usual mundane routines.
You know, when you realize that God is the Author of all things it does fill you with joy. But I like Dr. MacArthur never made a emotion filled profession of faith. My Church would sing Just As I am until someone would come forward. I still remember almost every word to that song. It was like it was our decision whether or not to follow Jesus. I made no such decision. He chose me. God did it all. I hate sin and my sinful nature and I am thankful for God's forgiveness and mercy. He has put in me a spirit of thankfulness and discernment. Therefore, I am not on a Spiritual High. Playing by your emotions is dangerous because our feelings are part of our sinful nature and they are subject to change at any moment. After God let me know I was His, then I could turn to Him and turn to His Scripture that He wrote and read and accept it all rationally. I believe it...every word of it because my rational mind never changes but my emotions and feelings do.
As you can see by John MacArthur's own words he has very little understanding of the Holy Spirit, but what is worse is that he is teaching people the same.
I took his statement as saying that he thought the reason that someone was wearing a hole in a wooden floor was because they thought there was something mistical about the location were they were praying. I don't think he was saying don't pray but why should someone think we should pray in exactly the same place and position? The Great prayer warriors I know aren't wearing holes in floors because they are out doing stuff and they aren't going to be in the same place when they pray. We don't have to be in the same place for God to be able to find us.
Timothy Fish
Thats not what he said
I think the problem with the charismatic churches is that they think every spirit (of truth) that comes to them is good and not discerned which has caused people like John MacArthur to be very wary and even anti to all charismatic behaviour.
Pastor MacArthur and multitudes of others, are closed minded cessationists who have not received the fullness of the Holy Spirit and are very much afraid to do so.They quill the work of the Holy Spirit and no doubt grieve Him in so doing.Let God be God and administer the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, increased faith, the gifts of healing, the gift of miracles, prophecy, the discernment of spirits, diverse kinds of tongues, interpretation of tongues anyway that He pleases as we will grow and He will be Glorified and His Will ,well be done. !
Funny how they give modern worldy definitions to the spiritual gifts which make them just natural abilities. There's nothing spiritual about them except that the Holy Spirit could help you do them better. But there's only 9 gifts listed in scripture in 1 Cor 12 and then the forgot and most important one--LOVE--in 1 Cor 13.
The Holy Spirit taught me about the gifts before I even knew there were gifts! I thought I was going crazy or had a brain tumor or something!
That line about him thinking he understood everything in junior high is disturbing and the fact he didnt realize his mistake after uttering that is even more so.
Everybody thinks they understand everything in junior high. A lot of them get over it.
Rationality is antithetical to Biblical faith.If something can be rationalized, it does not require faith anymore.Faith deals with what cannot be rationalized because it deals with the unseen, while rationality is limited only to the seen.As much as I admire and respect Dr John MacArthur, he is wrong on this one.I also feel deeply sorry that he has never experienced the Presence of God.What a tragedy.Dr Brown is 100 percent correct on this one.Thank you sir.
While I do acknowledge that there most certainly are abuses and perhaps sometimes even manifestations that are not real on the side that embraces the supernatural, the truth of the matter is that cessationism is not Biblical.
John comes across as if God,Christ,Bible theology,everything to do with Christ,etc.as someone who strived to get a masters and any kind of high degree in one area.no doubt he loves,respects,honors God but its like a subject he is an expert in with facts,logic.yet he never has felt any thing supernaturally to his spirit.something is missing with him.
The problem that sometimes occurs when people get caught up in the emotional side of religion is they don't get rooted in Christ, but instead base their relationship with God on feelings. Emotion has to be tempered with reason, but reason also has to be tempered with humility before God and understanding there are things beyond our ability to understand. Inevitably we will make the wrong call and either step out when God didn't call us, or miss out on a blessing God had for us. And that's ok. God loves to use our failure to demonstrate His power and grace.
I completely understand this man's reservation and I'm pretty sure I've witnessed the sort of thing that ran him off. When people use God to feel good rather than following after Him whether it feels good or not, that's when they get in danger of maligning the word of God. A relationship with Christ is an all consuming love that ultimately overcomes addiction to sin, not a new addiction to replace the old. Still, this man also seemed rather narrow minded. I think he, like me, is from a culture that strongly encourages suppression of emotion and discourages expression of it, and I think he's let this cultural upbringing limit who God can be to Him. I believe I've felt the presence of God before, and it is wonderful, but I also get uncomfortable/tired very quickly because I'm not used to letting myself feel that much. I'm learning.
Dr Brown is right. I'll tell you, Christianity in America is way way far behind concerning the signs, wonders and gifts of God. If you have never been to countries where the poor and needy are, then you won't see the real power of God on a daily basis. I don't necessarily mean that God does not move powerfully in the US, but He rewards those who seek him and conforts the poor and needy with signs and woders. When was the last time anyone heard a man of God resurrecting another person by the power of God? I mean i never heard in the US, but I've heard and know the person, which by the way lives in Brazil. How about the crippled walking again by the doctrine of laying hands? Yes, we are far away from the real apirtual world. But God is mercy and Salvation.
I truly believe if you never experience gods incredible presence you don't belong to him. Romans 8.16. John Macarthur testimony scares me.
A lot of what John says worries me for him. I worry actually for all those who believed in the Calvinistic lies.
that’s not true. not everyone experiences it and that’s ok. stop condemning ppl
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling
Amen,I know exactly what you’re talking about🙌🏾🙏🏾👏🏾 preach Dr. Brown. This joy that I have the world didn’t give it to me🙌🏾
So MacArthur rejected spiritual disciplines and experiences based on the intellect and maturity of an adolescent? No good, my bro, not good at all. Much more likely that a fear of deep emotion is the root of this.
I’m sure that is not what John McArthur meant. I know he loves God’s presence and feels joy simply over the fact that he is saved. I believe he wanted to give warning to people who pray many hours without true knowledge of God. Rejoicing in God is great. But rejoicing in what kind of God has to be defined first. It’s actually true that sadly we witness many folks in the church who do not know whom they worship.
Just wow. He thanks God for being delivered from a deep prayer life. This saddens me.
To my understanding, it is only nonsense to those "who are perishing." I believe we are to serve the LORD with ALL of our minds. This is discernment. "Deep and rich" should never come at the experience of our calling to use wisdom and understanding that even Christ was not known for long and extravagant prayer. Faith is not married to the experiential. Now, though I disagree with you Dr. Brown, I love you. I love your book on Breaking the Stronghold of Food. Thank you for your contribution brother! - jones
1 Corinthians
Chapter 14
1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40Let all things be done decently and in order.
It is reported he has preached that taking the mark is OK.
All Souls TV No way?!?
Lizica Here: ruclips.net/video/iU3tjRq6tX4/видео.html
And... Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
But hey these guys on including McArthur know better than Jesus, right?
All Souls TV
Disclaimer: I don't agree with MacArthur's position on this, at least not as I have heard it.
However, do you believe liars and murderers can be saved? Because the Bible says all liars will have their place in hell, and no murderer has eternal life. If you're going to apply those passages as strictly as you apply to ones about the mark, then you would have to say that it's just as impossible for a liar, murderer, or anyother kind of sinner to be saved.
+Justin:
Since on this very page you have lied, both slandered me and lied about what Paul is teaching in 1 Corinthians 14 (incredibly trying to twist the very passage where Paul says he speaks in tongues more than them all because it edifies the one doing it, 14:4, 18), you had better deal with what your own lies say about you.
And in my opinion ,
Mr. MC. Arthur , sometime you seem to be quite arrogant and not humble . .....
maybe you don't know that .....I think , you mean well , but that is not always enough . ...
and you should consider, that you might be wrong !
I always teach that we start by faith but we need to seek experience with God!
I don’t know, two syllables of gibberish have never convinced me as biblical. The tongues of the Book of Acts were living languages spoken by people who never studied them before, not repeat “you should’ve bought a Honda” faster and faster.
Frank Pichardo I believe tongues are for both translation and also utterances to the Lord.
There are def some who just talk gibberish tho! Lol!
I have friends who were just praising God at home and it just had come over them to speak in tongues. I believe them. I have some gifts too but not speaking in tongues.. it just freaks me out too much!
Gifts, It’s almost like Gods handing out random candy, devils putting out some poison candy to imitate, and still others putting out wrappers with rocks inside, just to bring you in.
Dr. Brown made an interesting point. But I guess God also needs people like Pastor John who always thinks logically. I feel bad for Pastor John for missing the feeling part though.
When Pastor MacArthur said that he was grateful that he was delivered from this seeking of transcendental experiential faith, he was not saying that he was against spending hours upon hours on his knees in prayer seeking after God. I seriously doubt that MacArthur would tell someone essentially, "Pray less," or "There's no need to spend so much time on your knees because God already knows. Shut up and just go read your Bible." That's not what MacArthur is saying at all.
What I believe Pastor MacArthur is referring to is this seeking of God's presence in a way that is not subordinate to any biblical parameters or interpretations. Praying until you feel something or hear a 'still small voice,' is not commanded anywhere in the Bible. Nor does the Bible describe prayer as a two-way conversation with God that gives special, specific revelation as to what your next move should be. This is exactly what people tend to think of when they pray, and if they don't experience anything spectacular during their prayer time such as: the sighting of a bright light, physical weakness, internal cleansing mourning, uncontrolled and uninterpretable babbling (what they think to be speaking in tongues), the sound of a still small voice, etc, which they assume to be the evidence of the Holy Spirit or a deeper entering into the presence of God, they doubt their faith. This is what is dangerous.
These things have happened to people mentioned in the Bible, and I like other people feel a godly envy if such a thing exists, for the closeness to God that these people have experienced, but I am not commanded by the Bible to seek after these thing when I pray. Nor am I told that if I don't experience any of those things that I am not spiritual enough. The fact is, the heart is deceitful, and that can carry over into our walk with God. Instead of trusting his Word with all of our might as being sufficient, even when it comes to HOW WE PRAY, we seek after this transcendental, almost romantically personal relationship with God, when in this dispensation, his Word is how he primarily speaks to us. And by his Word ALONE do we even discern and interpret our relationship with him even when it comes to our prayer time. That's what I get from what MacArthur was saying. Know God by his grace through faith and the increasing knowledge and wisdom available in his Word. The fellowship of the Holy Spirit is what allows that.
Dylan Baker Amen. And at his right hand, pleasures evermore!
Dylan Baker
What I heard was that MacArthur found the stories that he had heard of "holes being wore into a wooden floor from praying so long in the same place" to be bizarre. I don't think that MacArthur would be against someone praying for hours, I surely hope that he wouldn't because the Apostle Paul instructs us to pray without ceasing and to be persistent in prayer considering that these are the last days. On the other hand, there is such a thing as contemplative prayer where people empty their minds so to speak and pray things to God and wait for a voice from Heaven, a wistle of the wind, a light shining down, and other such things as some sort of affirmation that God hears them and that they have been lifted up into his presence. From a biblical standpoint, I don't understand that.
Praying for hours is not wrong in and of itself, yet there are some approaches that should be considered. Each time someone prays to the Father they are in God's presence whether they feel it or not. Sometimes God may grant by his providence feelings of joy, peace, strength, etc, but other times he may not. But whether or not we have those experiences shouldn't be an indication of how spiritual we are. Intimacy with God is a balance of knowing him through his Word which takes primacy, and spending time communing with him in prayer and obeying him. Somoone who prays for hours on end but is not theologically sound and doesn't seek a deeper intellectual understanding of God through his Word cannot claim to be in close fellowship with God.
Dylan Baker
He was praying over people who spoke a language he wasn't trained to speak in. Tongues are not necessary today because the Gospel is spread all over the world and we have trained translators today.
Dylan Baker
Ok. What I know is that "tongues" means foreign intelligible languages and those given the ability to speak foreign languages were meant to have translators so that others could understand what was being said. Tongues is not a special prayer language between us and God and it's not to be considered a sign of possessing the Holy Spirit or having reached some "higher level" or spirituality than other who don't speak in tongues. Paul told the Corinthian church that tongues are supposed to be translated so that the church could be edified (the church is made up of Jews and Gentiles) and that it was a gift not given to all Believers. Tongues, like all other gifts is for the building up of the church not for self-fulfillment (as if it could be since you wouldn't understand what you're saying.) I see no reason why we would need to speak in other languages today since we have translators as I said earlier.
Wow, “i couldn’t fathom hours of prayer on my knees before God”?!? From a brother like McArthur I suppose I’m not surprised by this statement but the statement itself sounds like 100% agnosticism
He's talking about "prayer" in the context of idly waiting for God to zap you with an emotional experience. He's not talking about the biblical concept of prayer.
Justin Reed Justin Reed “I’ve read things about people who wore holes in a wooden floor from praying so long In the same place. I couldn’t comprehend that.” .... no he was clearly talking about long amounts of time in prayer. Nice try though
Justin, If you read E.M. Bounds book on Prayer it has nothing to do with praying until you have an experience with God. It has to do with actually having the same fervent prayer life as Jesus and the early church. As someone who is actually reading that book now, MacAuthors statements are very concerning for someone in his position. Read the book and I'm sure you will agree.
Fruit of the Vine Ministries
Watch the entire video this was excerpted from and you will see what MacArthur was talking about in context.
AG Survival
I've listened to the entire conversation, so I actually know the context of what he was saying.