Of course the biggest advantage of battery swapping is that you avoid battery degradation over time. Having to replace your battery after it is out of warranty is a huge expense.
You will pay for the battery in any case. Of course they will give you used battery from someone else's car and for any concrete car owner there is no incentive to keep battery in a good condition, because it can be replaced on station. And another point (from what I saw in youtube), that nio stations are not simple and no one except NIO will build replacement stations and this company is not in such good condition to build them on scale
@@D.A.OhK. Yeah, you are right about my knowledge. It is really just my shallow point of view. I also heard that NIO does not make profits on its cars, in fact it's opposite. I just assumed that it's more expensive to make car with swappable battery and to build infrastructure to swap only one NIO car batteries. If batteries are standard between other brands, maybe it could work. Probably you know more than me and can explain a lot to me. I agree that I'm just a random guy who watched couple of youtube videos
@@D.A.OhK. unfortunately, he's correct. Battery swapping is too capital intensive (i.e. expensive for the supplier) to ever be installed in the scale needed to make it a viable option to charging. It will be like plug in hybrids, polls show most people never bother to plug them in, most people wont bother to battery swap and will just charge
That extra remaining range must have had a price to it. The total amount of range sold by Nio was a great deal more than what was "tanked" by Tesla. That is also the reason why having more range left for future consumption does not matter here except for potential next stop-time to fill back up. Still interested in the price per kwh per mile.
Yes, it's quicker than refilling your car with diesel/petrol! Powerststions van also intelligently regulate the grid via renewable sources too I.e wind and solar 😀
They improved the cabin noise in the 2023 Model Y massively. All the way up to Mercedes levels. But ye older Model Y's are worse. Tesla constantly improving. Every month new things.
@@HermanWillemshow did they improve it? By tuning the speakers for noise cancelling or actually add noise insolation material around doors and floors?
In fact, NIO will add 1,000 new battery swapping stations in China by 2023, achieving almost full coverage on Chinese highways. It's incredibly convenient.
I'm just doing some numbers in my head. That will make 2360 Nio swap stations in China. Each one of those stations has to carry on average 15 batteries per station (up to 21 per station). That's about 35,000 EV batteries - even if we're generous and say each new battery only costs Nio about $10K that's still $350 million locked up in capital plus the cost of the swap stations, maintenance and staffing. And that's just one brand. Imagine if they sold as many cars as Tesla. It only makes sense in a country like China where home charging is not possible and people rely on fast charging. Will Nio be able to compete with all that additional overhead? I don't know but it'll be fun to watch.
But im in Europe. 1 Station 300 km away in Denmark. Even if china had one on each Street corner still dont help me 🤷 I have to rent the battery for around 200 euros/month and still charge like any other ev's. Copy the tesla Free charge concept, free Batterys for the first model year until we have a usefull swapping network. Else this concept only last a few years.
@@mondotv4216 exactly NIO will have millions of dollars in swap stations and batteries while tesla will be using that money to make more cars..to save the customer 4 minutes which brings zero revenue back to NIO and will make it impossible to grow..good idea for the customer bad idea for the company
I always felt that in the US, we are a very open market but the fact that Europeans are already driving and testing these are amazing. The open mindedness of the Europeans to embrace things from outside is shocking to me. Bravo. By the way I love this video and just learned about this brand Nio, what an EV, this is an exciting vehicle it appears.
In the US we privatize profit and socialize losses - for large corporations. We’re not a truly free market, as can be seen by our immigration (labor market) policies. We can debate the merits of our policies, but typically we base them on what benefits the wealthy - look at H1B visas. I can’t complain about my salary, but I’d be replaced by an Indian in a heartbeat if my employer would save 50% my salary, regardless of output quality. Trump’s trade wars didn’t help either. Effectively raised manufacturing costs (capital markets) and nationalized our agriculture industry (land). I’m older (late 40s) and only stay because of my mom. Once she passes, I’ll begin the emigration process.
USA is an open market?? Hahahahh are you kidding me? USA is blocking and sanctioning any product that threatens it's industry, that's why Chinese products that are more advanced are sanctioned in USA like Huawei and I'm sure Chinese EVs will be also blocked for "security" sake, give me a break
Apparently the EU is preparing to sanction EV companies from China, because Europeans car companies cannot compete and also China gives subsidies to Chinese companies..
@@antoniofauxuci174 do you know the device you are using now, phones, computers using “made in China” batteries? Even Tesla use blade batteries from byd.
I'm no expert on this topic. But I heard that Tesla charges you a lot of money to replace the battery pack. With NIO you get this essentially for free and your battery pack will never degrade.
It is actually a comparion between: you can only supercharge it VS you can both supercharge it and swap it! More options means more flexibilites and less anxiety.
@@Bboy235 The ET5 has a max charging speed of 140 kW. That is too slow and not up to date for such a high price. Power Swap Stations? Let's have a look to Germany. Only 2 PSS at the moment...
@@Shaolinof36thChamber Months ago, the number of PSS was 0. Lets stay optimistic:) I agree with that 140kw being too weak, hope it is improving over the next generations.
Can't wait to see NIO here in the States as an option for purchase. I think they have something unique here. I really like the "lifestyle" approach they've been pushing.
same here, I wish I could buy Chinese EVs in the States, but I know it won’t happen. America is too anti China to let its people see how advanced Chinese techs are
@@lordlee6473Though one thing to consider is that the NIO may be too expensive for the average Chinese citizen, especially since the materials of these batteries may very well need to be sourced from abroad and foreign companies need to charge more for their sales in China in order for them to be profitable. It may be unfair to say that Chinese technology as a whole has gotten this advanced, especially since this degree of technology is only realistically produced by a few people. On average, electric vehicles in China operate on much shorter ranges, especially since people in China are not realistically allowed to leave their home communities without going through bureaucratic hurdles.
@@aycc-nbh7289Do you tell jokes again?BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volkswagen, Ford electric cars are all supplied by Chinese batteries, Toyota electric cars are supplied by BYD batteries
@@车迷跑圈 It still changes nothing about my point regarding their affordabilities by Chinese citizens. Foreign cars are considered luxury items in China due to the steep tariffs on foreign manufactured goods on top of the additional money that foreign automakers need to pay to the state. Plus, I’m pretty sure that many, if not most, Western EV’s rely on lithium from Australia, Argentina, and South Korea.
@@nanxingluo4902 @Nanxing Luo The cgarging curve is more dependent on the BMS in the car not the charger itself. As long as the charger has enough output power for the car.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Does Sweden have any Nio fastchargers? My experience with them in China is pretty good. Fun fact: Tesla owners in China prefer to charge their cars at Nio charging stations because the fees are only half of Tesla superchargers. 😃
Nice comparison, obviously had the Tesla charged to 90% it would have been more time. As mentioned towards the end unfortunately the NIO and swap stations are not available in the US but maybe this will catch on.
Just realized while watching your video, the supercharging takes different amount of time depending on SoC at the beginning of the charging while the swap takes the same amount time for getting SoC from any value to 100% (1%-100% or 50%-100%), THAT IS AAAAMAZING! Ofc, it provides a second possibility to get more SoC than most of the EV brands out there offering only 1 possibility. I always prefer more options!
Yes exactly. Supercharging is extremely good when you plan accordingly like in the video. With swapping you don't need the sane type of planning to be able to travel fast, just just need to make sure that there's is a swapper on the route.
By observing the NIO battery swapping procedure I found a lot could be improved to reduce the swapping time. E.g. If they use a " drive thru" design for the station then there is no need to reverse parking the car, which can save a miniute or two. More, it seems they are using one tray system to do both the unloading and loading task. If two trays are employed one for each task, e.g. one tray is loaded with a charged battery ready for loading and the other tray only tasked for unloading. It is possible to save a few minutes more. I felt that with improvements they can shorten the swap time to 2 minutes.
NIO PSS 3.0 is now being installed around Europe. Quicker and and enhanced process and bigger number of batteries in rmthe station. Will be interesting to test.
you definitely have valid points there. It seems like they already have four different versions of the swapping stations and as time goes by they keep improving.
It costs 90 dollars to do a 40 dollar oil change. They have to pay people to do it. If it was all automated there will be breakdowns in the system.China has a lot of workers who will work for peanuts, not so sure in the USA. You will pay a return charge every time you exchange so stations will have money on hand to fix batteries.How much? Tesla pays $250,000 just to put the out doors charging infrastructure in, what will a storage facility plus charging plus having humans to watch the process? Unless the government gets ruthlessly involved this will never be economical. More than likely driving will cost 3-4 times more per mile. Concepts are great until you start adding up the costs.It`ll sure get cars off the road for the rich people.
This was a great test. I'm here in the US. I own a Model Y Long Range but I'm both an investor in Tesla and NIO. I think both have some great products and technology. While I know this was a focus on the charging tech I will say it seemed like the Tesla, even though that's the Performance model, was a little bit more efficient with the energy it had over the NIO. The other thing I want to mention is NIO is really going to have to step it up and bring more swap stations online. But that isn't really a negative since you can still use public charging to charge up and you can no even use Tesla's network, assuming they're open in most places in your area, to charge your NIO. I'd guess I'd say also that this test might need to be repeated in the future when Tesla brings online more and more of their V4 charging stations and their vehicles are even more equipped to handle a faster charge. But the edge may go to NIO is they're simply level 2 charging batteries at their stations. It might mean a little more longevity in their batteries over ones that get super charged. Again, not really an issue since the majority of people will be charging at home. But the NIO might also make out to be a perfect car for those who live in apartments or places where they can't easily plug in to charge.
I watched a video and saw that NIO already launched their new generation swap station where you can drive into it and changes within 3 minutes. That's like going into a carwash in and out. I'm totally liking that now.
NIO will never be in the US because US will never let Chinese companies into the market or they will dominate the EV market. That’s fact. So the best tech will be out of US until they get a new president.
Great test, the first of this kind in Europe which is very appreciated! Kudos to you guys! I do think that NIO has a bigger advantage than the SuC as the NIO arrived with more battery left. Also, I think that the longer route it would be with battery swap station alongside that route, the difference would become much bigger - also, in time the battery swap should take less than 5 minutes after all the swap stations are calibrated enough and the user is used to the process of the battery swapping - I also think that thanks to the battery swap the driver may actually drive faster as long as it is allowed by the law! :) To sum up, great stuff! Thank you guys for this test.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Keep such video coming and I will be watching, re-do the same test once there is plenty of BSS in Sweden so it can really show its power!
You didn’t talk about the advantage of getting a refreshed battery as well with the swapping. Also if better technology comes out, you will get a newer battery with longer range and up to date. Try that with super charging!!
Yes there are advantages to swapping no doubt but it's not all one-way. For example once the swap system has been in place for a few years you might end up with a 6 year old battery in your brand new car the first swap you do - there is no warranty on the battery because you don't own it so NIO can basically decide themselves what is still serviceable. After 6 years you will be paying more for the battery than upfront purchase. If you sell your car after 5 years you have paid 95% as much as someone who bought the car with a battery but can only expect to resell for about 60-70% as much because the non battery car comes with a 980 a month YUAN (plus inflation) legacy cost (or the cost of a new battery). When your owned battery dies you have the option of buying a new battery or swapping to renting until the car is dead. NIO may offer battery battery packs for older cars when they come out but that's a recipe for failure - they will be eating into new car sales significantly - I can't see that happening they will engineer the new batteries to be not compatible with older cars- I think this is a false hope. There are signs this is not for everyone - NIO never use to offer an option of buying a battery other than with the car new, under pressure from battery rental customers they have announced an option to stop the monthly fee and buy a battery - for them to do this there must be more than a handful of people who want to swap back to traditional ownership.
@@TB-up4xi your logic is completely flawed. That "6 year old battery" you get from a swap will be swapped out at the next swap, so warranty doesn't apply at all. Also that resell value calculation is also not correct, since if I'm buying a 6 years old electric car, I'm going to be deducting cost of a potential battery exchange out of the price. The resell value of a swap battery version and a purchased battery version should be comparable over time. Finally, if I have a battery swap car, NIO would be contractually obligated to guarantee the availability of a swappable battery over life time of that car or however long the battery swap terms run. While they could at any time end availability of a replacement battery on a non-battery swap version of the car, basically destroys resell value of that car. If you worry about NIO engineers new batteries to be not compatible with older cars, then swap battery version is definitely the safer option.
@@TB-up4xi You're never gonna end up swapping your battery for a 6 year old one. But of course, the swapping is going to cost more than charging. Obviously. The cost is going to be passed down to the consumer eventually when they stop subsidizing it. But it solves the problem with range and also solves the problem of very expensive battery replacements
In California, US, superchargers are never operating at their full capacity. When I go to a 250KW station, even when almost empty battery, it only does to about 150 to 200KW, and it slows down as you are getting fuller. Usually, it is about 1KW-2KW per minute. Usual charging time will be around 1 hour, no matter what charge status you have.
These are really early days for battery swapping so I can see the swap speed increasing significantly as well as the user experience. No doubt there will be many improvements in the future as this user experience is at the core of NIOs business model. Nomi, NIO houses etc etc. I also can't see any issues with queuing as that would imply every car will arrive at the station within 10 minutes of each other (or whatever the swap time is). That's just not going to happen, besides, as the network grows you'll be rerouted to another station. They may change the design and use some sort of carousel system...who knows what will come. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds though. Also don't forget that Shell are onboard with this plus full automation will be just round the corner😜
The swap speed can never be increased and it will only get worse. Alread there are queues in Norway, even though NIO has few sales. Battery swap will never work. Max in the city for taxis, but for normal cars - no.
@@marcusbiller867 not sure about your logic. How come swapping will only get worse? You mean swapping will get slower, but that makes zero sense. There are queues because there aren’t enough swapping stations yet which can be solved by building more stations. The same goes for charging stations: if there’s less charging stations than cars needing charging, there will be queues too. Duh. And for NIO, if you don’t have swapping stations available, you can always go to charging stations.
Can we place an order in the US for a Nio? I refuse to buy a Tesla can't wait to charge it for an hour. My time is to valuable to kill it in a charging station. 😊
@@LifeinBloom1 NIO do have R&D center is US, but I hightly doubt that they will launch their sales in the States. From my perspective, the difference in city planning is the key reason that Power swap station (PSS) will not work in the States. Chinese mega cities are more concentrated, so majority of commuters are traveling from the suburb area to the CBD. So limited number of PSS can easily handle the needs for the battery swap. But in the States, I am assuming the commutes are more distributed, therefore, PSS cannot achieve the highest operation rate and therefore perform terrible on the balance sheet.
If you compare one battery swap to one charging session, the difference might seem minor. But that's not accounting for the fact that the Tesla only charged to the required amount of SoC to reach the destination. If you have a larger distance where at least two stops are required, the difference will be WAY bigger. Because the swap will give you a SoC of 90% which takes a lot of time in a charging session. So for really long trips (1000km or more) swapping will be noticeably faster. Great video and keep it up.
I hope you earn s lot of money. I'm not invested in the stock and don't aware of the value. But I really hope they succeed in Europe. Will probably take longer than people think though.
@@pass3d Awesome, thanks! A little hard to understand given that I don’t speak Chinese. Looks like she was able to get 635km (395miles), but didn’t do much highway driving and *possibly* didn’t use the air conditioning? Still, this is a game-changing moment for LFP, and proves the blade battery is a winner!
Nio is from China, where it got a much suffcient grid of swapping stations to ease the anixety of left. As the video shows, Swapping has an edge over Supercharging in terms of speed. ( more like traditional oil station filling up your tank ). The only disadvantage of swapping is that it is incompatible with other EVs. I mean, it is a suffcient system only for NIO customers. ? in the meantime, Tesla starts to allow other EVs to use their supercharging stations as we speak. So, in the long run, I believe Supercharging will triumph Swapping.But, hey, SWAPPING IS REALLY COOL AND FAST, isn't it ? Lots of respect to Chinese EV makers, Salute !
Unless they can convince other manufacturers to also add "swapable" batteries. I could see this becoming a universal thing, at least in China (so Chinese EV cars).
@@m.r.2718 which is very hard to achieve, in my opinion. After all, Nio is a relatively new EV company, not so confident that it has the power to 'talk em into' swapping battery business model.
@@apolloyang1036 I mean, pretty much all Chinese EV car companies are relatively new to EV lol. Even most European, American and Korean major car manufacturers are new to EV, so I don't think "EV producing age" would necessarily matters here.
@@apolloyang1036 True. But William Li has talked with other OEM's how they could use NIO's swap tech. Starting with their new upcoming platform NT3.0 other companies can license it from NIO.
Speaking only for myself, I'm ready for a break after 2/3 hours of driving. The ideal for me is a charging station (150kw is fine) near somewhere I can get a good cup of coffee and then stretch my legs.
I used to drive a battery swapping car from Ample and the experience was horrible. The stations are very complex and break all the time. And often they didn't have a readily charged battery to swap me for, not even half charged to get me going.
@@rykson161 I would buy this model if I could either charge at home or swap battery, depending on the case. Ample wants people to solely swap battery, and those issues are simply aggravating.
I know that you are only comparing the efficiency of battery swap vs supercharging so in the best case scenario (no wait, etc.), battery swap will always win from a time perspective... at least if/when supercharging really gets faster. I think what folks in the comments are missing is that battery swap offers a lot more flexibility: 1 - You can opt to lease the battery which lowers the upfront cost significantly. 2 - You can lease the lowest range battery and upgrade to longer ranges for longer trips 3 - Don't have to worry about only charging to a certain % in order to save the battery since you can always swap out for a newer one. 4 - Swap stations can charge up to 300+ cars per day and take up significantly less physical land space to deploy vs a number supercharging stations. Also less grid capacity is required. 5 - Oh and you can also supercharge or slow charge at home.
Wear on battery/vehicle interface is high. Number of batteries Nio has to invest in is uneconomic - they can't make a profit. Its a CCP initiative, not an engineering solution. Allowing for the recommended 15 minute break every 2 hours of travel - there is no difference in travelling time between ICE and BEV. Tesla charges faster than humans. See Nyland's data for 1000km runs - under 10 hours for many.
@@waynerussell6401 in a perfect world maybe, but in reality it's quite different, at least with battery swap it's more reliable, but thats saying as if tesla isnt like 80% subsidized by the US goverment, and not everyone has time to take 15 mins break out of a 2 hour travel plan, if everyone did then there would no space for charging
Depends on battery size and if you lease or buy the battery in the nio. The nio starts at the same price as the top specced model y performance without battery though. But the et7 should be compared with the Model S. #TeslaModelS
Very interesting. Something not being considered here is driver and passenger comfort, ie going to get a coffee or food, stretch ones legs or use the rest room. On long journey humans like to do these things. So with battery swap looks like you have to stay in the car, therefore these other activities have to be added on… Love the video 👍
Actually everybody can leave the car, if you still remember there was a 10 seconds, in China it is 15 or 20 seconds preparing time, so you can leave the car and buy some drinks or restroom and come back. Even the Nio people in the station can help you park the car outside if you ask him to do so.
Battery swap station gen 3 which is coming out very soon will officially allow unattended swap and I might be mistaken but supposedly gen 2 will also get that update.
I am really surprised by how it took almost 8 minutes to swap your battery. I've seen videos of it in China being done in less than 5 mins for the whole process. Perhaps they are still calibrating.
Swap stations in Europe are not the First versión one. Swap station is constrained by the time it takes to charge the bateries. If you have only 5 batteries, you should adjust the swap time to make sure you have always a battery at 100% after the one you swap.
Fully Charged test in China resulted in half an hour charge including waiting time. The wear and tear on the battery and vehicle charging interface is a real concern. Nio are a long way from being profitable.
@@waynerussell6401 in cn they are goverment subsidized, but you want a situation where they will always have more batteries than needed, as it will serve their clients best, imagine if everyone owned a nio, the amount of battery swap stations and battery needed...
Great video and thanks for documenting this. It would be very interesting to see how battery swapping stations work in scale. For example, Tesla is building bunch of super chargers on i5 HWY between Northern and Southern California. Kettleman City has 95 Superchargers and they get very busy on major holiday. I am just wondering how many swapping stations NIO needs to build to match the same capacity as 95 Tesla Superchargers. Also, I would be wrong but I imagine both the CapEx and OpEx would be a lot higher on NIO vs Tesla's superchargers. Let's say if both NIO & Tesla are given $200M to expand charging/swapping network in Sweden, which company would provide the most coverage and cost benefit to the public? Also, there are no standard for swapping, so it will only work for a single brand NIO. Superchargers work with diff brands.
Hi and thanks for watching and commenting! It's a really though question! I'm not into the details of the establishment cost for chargers and swap stations. But 1 swap station is for sure more expensive to build than 1 Superchsrger. Let's speculate: The new swap station 3.0 has a daily charging capacity of over 500 cars. One Supercharger can handle 48 charge cycles per day if the average charging session is 30 minutes. One swap station 3.0 then has the linear capacity of 10 superchargers by its own. But the demand of charging is of course not linear during the day and there will be peak hours with higher demand and hours with now demand. So the practical real world capacity of 10 superchargers are higher then 1 swap station. But: the swap station is normally companioned by a number of fast chargers to even out peak hours. So the cost of swap station with let's say 3 fast chargers needs to be compared with at least 10 superchargers. I assume 10 superchargers are a lot cheaper to establish. This is of course on a theoretical and a very simplified level of calculating. A nother thing that needs to be part of the calculations is the battery subscription fee and how much of that that "funds" the swap stations.
A swap station can serve up to 10 cars per hour, while a surper charger can only serve 2-3 cars per hour. And the power demand is much higher for the super charger, since swap station can charge batteries over time and can help the grid. Nio has more than 1000 stations in China. So I think they have their number checked.
From NIO published resouces, I recalled that each gen 2 swapping station (with 13 batteries pre-loaded) costs around 1.5M￥CNY (210k $USD). Now NIO is building gen 3 stations (21 batteries -preloaded) along highways in China , not sure how much that cost now.
Here in California, Super Chargers ONLY work with Tesla. The other problem with Tesla Charging is, when you have two cars charging next to each other, the charge drop due to share load. Another benefit of battery swap is off peak charge, meaning, with Solar Panel, today if you are a Edison Customer, the ON peak for business is day time, for family is night time, Battery super charging can be done without a customer waiting.
the issue with swap stations is very simple. You need extra batteries for every car on the road, if the technology changes over 5-10 years the number of batteries you need to be able to swap and charging is a simpler more cost efficient proposal
150km range left vs the Tesla that had only 45km left upon arrival is actually amazing ( Very impressed with NIO ) and what this video should also point out is that NIO can also power charge just like the Tesla can, but NIO also has it's on carry onboard charging pack just in case you end up running out of energy and could end up sitting around, which Tesla also does not have. My next car is a NIO 🙂
So when are you going to buy it then? Because the sales are VERY bad for Nio. Seems nobody is buying them. Please buy one soon then ok. Don't wait too long. We need sales.
Battery swap is cool but think about if you have 10 or more cars waiting to swap a battery. The swap station is much larger than having multiple supercharges can you put 30 swapping stations side by side Just a thought.
and ? If there is multiple cars first on line you could just use with NIO superchargers if there is a one available. What is the problems? if there is only superchargers and there is a line (10 users) it takes time a lot too before you can start charging .... Do not forget that NIO you could charge at home, supercharge or swap... with others... just 2 ways... Think again this.
It's the other way around. For the capacity a swap station offers (amount of cars 'recharged'), its physical footprint is WAY smaller than a rapid charging site. And you still don't HAVE to swap is there really is a cue. Charging will definitely not go away.
A swap station has charging as well. I'd rather be 5th in line to swap and get a 90% battery than DC fast charge from 5-90. The key is that with nio, I have that option.
And if you would have travelled 50 km extra, the Nio would be able to do it immediately, whereas the Tesla would require another 12min charging. Also, charging faster would require another type of battery (more than 800V?), whereas swaping under 5min would just require the generation 3 swap station that is almost available. But that was a great video!
That's assuming you can find a charger fast enough to charge 50km in 12 min or have space, the same could be applied to battery swap stations but it will almost always have a free space since the other drivers isnt off somewhere in some cafe spending time to charge for 1 hour, while you neee to charge your for 10 mins.
If we look to the design, Nio is better on every aspect. Quality as well; its just incomparable in that manner. Just drove a Tesla model S and Nio Et7 and well, Tesla’s have a lot to learn from the Chinese when it comes to ‘premium feeling’ sorry to say that !
Advantage of the charging instead of swap is that you can use those 12mins to something else. Go to the toilet, buy some food..etc. If you need that in the NIO you have to take time after or before the swap, and you end up using more time in total :)
Don’t forget you are not using newest battery swap station but used V 3 super charger so if you used generation 3 swap you would be out in 3 min all together
Assuming there is no queue. We have a place called Jiffy Lube in the USA, where they promised 15 minute oil changes....once your car was up on the lift. There was always a queue. I started to get my oil changes done at Walmart where there was no delay of my own time as I shopped for an hour while they serviced on my car during that time.
What about the cost of charging vs swapping. And if there is a malfunction at the swiping automation.... are you stranded till they fix it? Whats the guarantee they will always have a charge battery waiting for you? What about weather? Snow and slush buildup under the car will not interfere with automation if the robot undoing the battery bolts?
Over 10 million swaps have been done in china. So the concept seems to be working. If the system fails, let's say in-between the swap (standing without battery) you will probably be stuck for s while. 🙂 But at least in Sweden there's a operator on site that probably can help out. There's is no warranty for s charged battery for you. But the car "books" a battery and handshakes that beforehand with the swap station. So as long as you have a booked slot you will have a battery.
If we wanted to balance the charging times .. why not do like for like and charge the Tesla also to 90%. Also NIO is not limited to only battery swapping, it can also be charged as a regular EV.
Yes, but when charging no chance compared to a Model y today. The interesting thing was to compare Charging with swapping. But as a mention at the end: The longer you travel the more time you save with the swapping
Don't forget though NIO is nearly twice as slow to charge as the Tesla at dc chargers so if you have a mix of swap and charge needed on the trip (too far between swap station and destination ) then the Tesla may be quicker again
What about a toilet stop? If you replace the battery in NIO, you don't have to be in the car at that time? This means that after replacing the battery you have to stop again to use the restroom. While charging, you plug in the car and go do your business.
Right, because when you are swapping, there are laws preventing you from using restrooms immediately before or after. If you attempt to "do your business" after swapping a nio battery, it is punishable with jail time I heard.
Thanks a lot. I have to wait 18 months to swap my car with an electric one. No idea yet what the brand will be, I have not decided yet. But I liked battery swap. It's very quickly done. Till than I will be watching your video's. :) You have a subscriber.
interesting test, but must be very special and optimized route to work for the car with battery swap. In this case maybe 1 out of 2 possible routes in sweden where it works. I have been in China for 2 weeks driving Nio et7, where they have more than 1200 swap stations (sweden 2) but there is still much easier to quickcharge becouse there is to far between swap stations. Sometimes you must swap battery after 150 km to have range to next station or you must drive to other side of a 3 million people big city, can easy be 30-60 minutes to get to the only swap station. So nice tecnologi, but probably impossible to get swap stations in as many locations as there are fast chargers, and that is probably what you need to make it work properly.
@@ItsOnlyElectric i ll come back in 5 years can check u said to look how much swap station will grow grow faster than tesla supercharge or station swap
Why should you think only of battery swap? On a long journey, swapping is probably ideal because the locations of the swap stations will be on the fast standard routes. For shorter journeys, charging is probably easier. The good thing is, you don't have to choose between one or the other.
@@David34981 Nio is very slow at fast charging compared to competition, Nio max speed about 130kW, other brands are 170-270 kW. Not funny to have 20-30 minutes extra at charging
Thanks for doing this video, but the question is you cant take the NIO anywhere like the Tesla how many swapping battery stations are there compared to tesla superchargers. I live in the US and there are superchargers everywhere or EV chargers everywhere not sure about battery swapping stations but the best thing about that is you dont have to worry about replacing battery when it goes bad bec you can always just swap the battery unlike with Teslas after for example 10 yrs maybe need a new battery.
If i'm not mistaken that sound is the same sound from Nio ET7 just volume have been increased for you to hear person on the radio more clearly. So Tesla isn't louder, we actually did not got any example of actual audio recording from Tesla side, it was all over the radio, which was weird way to do it when you already have camera on another side filming at same time.
@@ciybersal9833 Its a TSLAQ myth. Tesla beats Nio and every other manufacturer in every analysis of faults per 10k and in customer satisfaction surveys. Lutz, detailer Out Of Spec, RSymons British importer, Munro and McElroy have all praised Tesla build quality. "Better than a Bentley" Munro on pre-inspection of Model S Plaid teardown.
For me this test shown that battery swap considering all what comes with it, does not really makes sense except maybe some very special situations. However as changing speeds are are improving, my educated guess is that on the long, this will make absolutely no sense.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Special cases, maybe like travelling agents. Above 500km I definitely need a longer break anyway. Honestly my car charges like sh!t compared to Tesla (~45kW), and I still did not feel it as a problem during my long trips. A really quick coffee + toilet break can take easily 15-20 minutes. My chargings were about 30-40mins, so I took a sandwitch or just checked my mails / social media for a few minutes.
How is the billing when you swap your depleted battery with a fully charged one? I believe the price is different when your batter is fully depleted or 75% depleted.
Unless NIO battery swaps become adopted by users on a universal scale, they will never be more than a niche item. Telsa charging is striving for universal standards that the IRA is backing. The game is still on, but the outcome has already been settled.
In europe they have a robust plan for building the stations. I live in norway and own the ES8, and the owners here already use the stations on the daily. It works great, and I can drive between all the major citys and not worrying about charing at all. Sweden and danmark have their first stations up, germany as well, and more coming trough central europe. I think this is a game changer.
You're confused. Tesla offers nothing more than NIO, as you can charge a NIO in the conventional way as well. But you can't swap a Tesla's battery - ever.
Thank you so much! Few other considerations: 1. tear/wear, I think supercharging on the long run also is a disadvantage (assuming the swap station charges more battery friendly) 2. Peaks, assume you are 10th in the queue in both cases (this was really the best case scenario but if everyone indeed buys electric cars waiting time can change especially that by the growing network maybe Tesla is winning the capacity war turning the page) 3. Loads, would be interesting to test 4x120 kg weight ;) or at least a regular family size... 4. Remaining charge, I think it was not stressed enough how much advantage it is to have 3x more capacity at disposal after "arrived" 4. maybe a to/back test would stress this a bit better....
How many cars can a nio battery swap station take at one time? Because I know at charging stations there is always a lot of spaces. Just wondering. Would that affect time swapping batteries which would make charging better?
I think the main problem with battery swapping stations is the amount of space they take up. Imagine having 10 or 15 of those swapping buildings instead of 10 or 15 parking spots with chargers. Also all cars need to be standardized so i don't think battery swapping will take off, especially since charging speeds are increasing every year there will soon be no need for swapping stations anymore.
Battery swap will work for any premium brand. It cost more (the car itself) and provides better experience. A swap station occupy 3 parking spots, and can serve about 10 cars per hour.
Swapping stations supercharge batteries as well. The difference is that it supercharges the battery when you are driving. Say a swapping station takes 10 parking lots of space, it probably holds 20 batteries or more. I do feel swapping is a superior route but my concern is whether is sustainable. This means the car manufacture has to overcharge for the car as they have to include the battery cost for the swap stations.
2 different philosophies. Nio want to prevent degradation and extend the life of the batteries and therefore promotes the possibility to slower caöhsrge of the batteries with the battery swapping solution.
Dont make sense ... battery swap does not take up 15 parking spaces, also feeds the grid when not in use , also not enough room for a charger for everyone, and a lot of people, are big percentage cant and won't be able to either.... terrace streets , flats , Tower blocks etc , and who wants to be stuck with the same battery, people out of warranty with poor quality tesla are being charged 23k for a battery replacement... more than the car worth , who going to buy a poor quality tesla and particularly one out of 8 year warranty, even people with genuine tesla faults in warranty struggle to get repairs, some are made to sign a gagging order before repairs ... Google tesla quality , Google tesla scandal
Question, how many battery stations are built at one site? If it’s only one and these cars start to sell more, this can be an issue. Just having two cars ahead of you will waste about 20min.
China is now using the second-generation battery replacement station, and it only takes 3 minutes to replace the battery. It can change batteries for 5 vehicles at the same time, and one station can change batteries for 500 vehicles a day. Every city in China builds how many battery replacement stations according to the proportion of vehicles.
As some already stated, the Tesla will win all day long if you consider this things: 1. You will need to stop for both lunch and restroom stops. While doing this, the car can charge. In the Nio you have to make an extra stop. 2. If there was a one, or more car in line for the swap station the wait would be monumental. Tesla SuperCharger station always contains many charger, so the risk for waiting time is minimal. 3. As you say in the video, there are only two shaping stations in Sweden right now. Even if they build many new, they're still going to be really rare. Tesla SuC are everywhere. 4. The Tesla is much more efficient, in long trips this really make a lot of difference. 5. The price! The Nio is a really nice car in many ways, much more luxurious for example. But the price is a joke compared to Tesla. If you buy the car WITH the battery, you can't use the swap stations, and if you buy the car, and RENT the battery you can do it, but the pris is huge (for both options). Sorry Nio, I would like you to succeed, but the other competitors are much better in almost every way (not only Tesla).
A lot of good points. Thanks! When it comes to price, the ET7 should be compared to the #TeslaModelS long range. The NIO is then cheaper 200k SEK cheaper.
Nio is larger, more modern, Swap option and more comfortable, better build, wider, quieter and has Vehicle to Load (V2L) technology teslas dont have. So hello newcomers bye bye Frog 3.
I drove both Tesla model S and Nio ET7 and can confirm that NIO is way better and prettier as well; quality is 10x better! Tesla’s tech is betrer that’s true, but I prefer pretty cars and drive comfort 😊
Battery swaps look to be more effective. However, it's not as convenient as charging everywhere with Tesla chargers you will be limited to only the locations where there are swap stations
Hands down, battery swapping is more convenient, time saving. Can't wait for NIO to come to the US, I want one so bad. There are no good EV options in the US right now that's why I haven't bought one yet
Battery swap would be double the time if there was one more driver at the station, while with the Tesla it takes the same time every time (unless all stations are preoccupied which never happens)
The new swap station takes less the half the time (under 5min). But if there is a queue it will take a lot longer. But thatvalso goes for fast charging. And if a charge station is occupied enough you won't get the full power from the charger and charge slower. Have made a more detailed comparison between charging and swapping: ruclips.net/video/mMKGqwZY6aE/видео.htmlsi=nH3kJvMDTILHocbj
Thanks for a great video. Also, in a couple of years the Tesla will deplete its battery faster and possibly take longer to charge, whereas the NIO will always have a new battery. That goes for the depreciation of the value of the car as well. I've gotta say, I think battery swapping is the superior system, especially as you can charge the NIO conventionally as well.
The battery that you've just swapped into your Nio will have been used and abused by others who will have had no incentive to take care of it. If you own your battery you are more likely to take care of it.
@@lookingatsunsets636 That's not true, whatsoever.. NIO monitors the battery health of the packs in the swap stations constantly. And they can fix bad cells or discard (=recycle) defect packs because of that reason. Battery swap actually can therefore result in much better battery health overall. Owning the battery actually gives you a huge financial burden, and meanwhile the battery will degrade whatever you do.
@@lookingatsunsets636 Also, when new battery tech comes along the NIO will get that new tech seamlessly, however the Tesla (and all conventional EV's) are stuck with that battery that's just getting older.
Depends. Seen Tesla batteries loose on only 7% after 9 years and 260 000km. So with that in mind the battery will have a longer life than the car itself.
Wonder what happen to the battery that is being replaced in the Nio car. Does it get recharged to be ready to swap to the next Nio vehicle? How many replacement battery would there be at the swapping station?
The battery swap station is indeed more efficient. However, when the growth rate of the electric vehicle market slows down, there is a high probability that the new battery you purchased will be replaced with an old one.
and equally high probability that the old one you just got will be replaced by a newer battery the next time you swap, and confident that the battery go get will always be within acceptable capacity.
The problem is nio doesn’t have many swap stations when comparing with superchargers network. When nio builds enough swap stations, we will have V4 superchargers all over.
So can the V4 supercharger change your Tesla battery when it wears out or gets damaged. How about if great new battery technology comes out can the V4 supercharger change out the permanently fixed battery in your Tesla? Didn't think so. What happens if new battery technology can't use the current charging system?
awesome video congrats from spain. it would be nice to see the economy saving of both systems and also compare with the combustion one either benzin or diesel. therefore we can cover both top scenerios 1.- TIME 2.- MONEY. you both make a great team, hope to see a next video soon. cheers.
Muchas gracias! 🙏 Glad you enjoyed it. We are planning a new big tests for the spring when the snow is gone. So stay tuned! Greetings from a cold Sweden.
Thanks for sharing these results. Nio ET7 and Tesla Y are both great vehicles. But your test is not done right. Tesla Y was charged just enough to make it to the finish line with only 12 km left. You should've fully charged Tesla to be fair. In any case, there are many more advantages of battery swap than the time saved during charging.
Thanks. This test was meant for a specific trip. Didn't need more battery. But what you nention is exactly what a say at the end: the longer you travel the more you gain with the swap technology. Purpose of this test is more practical than theoretical. Conclusion: If you travel longer than 500km Nio is a clear winner. But only if there is enough swap stations available, which will take many years (at least in Europe). But NIO has started to execute on its great plan of building swap stations in Europe. A very exciting future!
The battery swap is a great idea if not essential in densely populated areas where charging stations are a logistical nightmare should everyone start driving electric cars. Adopting the concept that your car is an electric tool where you swap out the battery makes sense, however there'll be queues for battery swaps as well as charging stations when the majority of us embrace the technology. Fundamentally there'll still be a massive infrastructure required for both charging stations and battery swaps. This was a very interesting comparison.
There will also be swap accidents.A man in Norway said his NIO car told him to go to the nearest dealer because one of the bolts holding his battery in was stripped. I`m guessing it happened during a swap.Who pays to fix that by the way?
Swap battery is a wrong decision, do not forget NIO is losing a lot of money per car... In fact, all that you see is costing double, but they still push for... In the end, is about preferences. We are adaptable so we can leave or with pauses, or with swapping... But I prefer Tesla as I consider their batteries and electric motors better products.
This was a great video, by the way. I am definitely a fan of your channel now. One last thing I wanted to mention regarding the cost of the infrastructure buildout of swap stations. NIO has signed strategic agreements with Shell, Sinopec(China's largest oil co.) And CNOOC(China's 3rd largest oil co.) to cooperatively build battery swap stations on retail sites these giant companies operate. It makes sense for these companies to try and capture revenue and customer traffic from the increasing number of EV owners.
My concern is that Nio's business model is shaky. Neo needs to build swapping stations equipped with spare batteries along all major corridors, which is more expensive than building charging stations. That cost cannot be shared by other manufacturers, and it has to be recouped, which puts Neo at a disadvantage compared to all conventional EVs. Without the financial support of the CCP, I'm not sure they'll be able to build enough stations to make this truly viable. The stock price has tanked. I know, because I bought shares a few years ago.
The race to build EVs from scratch to taking over all Regular gas powered cars is literally the story of the “tortoise and the hare” slow and steady is going to win this race not rushing to the point your companies exhausted and over whelmed
@@MrTeff999 NIO is not a car company, they are an energy company that sells cars, will build homes and deliver energy to homes. I am long term investor in NIO.
@@Hhhh22222-w How much does one swap station cost. Im talking about CAPEX and OPEX. (Both capital expenses and operational expenses per year) ? You have numbers ?
Battery swapping is costly (for may reasons), Nio needs to produce way more batteries than cars and there is no optimisation for the battery pack for all Nio models which will lower the eficiency amongst others, and time of swapping will change when there is a queue. To me it just doesn't make sense, and think it will disappear over time to be honest. Good Video you made.
Battery swap decreses the need for battery cells, as you can have a smaller battery for day to day use and then swap to a big one when needed. Also more and more charging stations are installing battery packs to help the grid.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Hopefully one day, Nio will have the same strategy in EU as in China. In China, no matter you lease the battery or own the battery, you will have battery swap. And if you have 100 kwh battery but not using that much on your regular trips, you can join a battery share program that you will use the 75kwh battery instead of the 100kwh, but Nio will gave you Nio points back.
What do you mean? We drived to Gothenburg. Jönköping does not add 1h to the trip. And there's was only to swap stations present in Sweden at that time. One in Mantorp and one in Varberg. 🙂
charging is not scalable in dense area in china, but people don't know that in europe and i agree we don't really need it in europe as well. what we need is just a car that is not bad quality plastic :)
When travel I am not the only one on the road , ust wonder how many car could battery swap accommodate on a busy day? how many car can swap station can do at once? how long one has to wait in queue for 50 cars come into the station? compare to 50 cars at the super charger station.
Vast majority of day to day driving doesn't require anything but plugging in at night. A supercharging stop for me is rare on long distance trips and more often than not coincides with a stop I want to make anyway.
Real life with me: I currently have dynamic prices with extreme low electricity prices in the weekend, even had one day -33Eurocents per kWh. Yes negative prices. I filled up my Tesla and got paid almost 20 euro. I got PAID to charge my car. I mostly charge the car in the summer in the weekend at daytime saturday or sunday depends whats the plan. Or at work if the prices are lower there. I have many options.
Of course the biggest advantage of battery swapping is that you avoid battery degradation over time. Having to replace your battery after it is out of warranty is a huge expense.
That is a very important observation !
You will pay for the battery in any case. Of course they will give you used battery from someone else's car and for any concrete car owner there is no incentive to keep battery in a good condition, because it can be replaced on station. And another point (from what I saw in youtube), that nio stations are not simple and no one except NIO will build replacement stations and this company is not in such good condition to build them on scale
@@Zmeyuka1 That's a terrible take on how battery swapping works. No doubt you make comments like this because of your short position.
@@D.A.OhK. Yeah, you are right about my knowledge. It is really just my shallow point of view. I also heard that NIO does not make profits on its cars, in fact it's opposite. I just assumed that it's more expensive to make car with swappable battery and to build infrastructure to swap only one NIO car batteries. If batteries are standard between other brands, maybe it could work. Probably you know more than me and can explain a lot to me. I agree that I'm just a random guy who watched couple of youtube videos
@@D.A.OhK. unfortunately, he's correct. Battery swapping is too capital intensive (i.e. expensive for the supplier) to ever be installed in the scale needed to make it a viable option to charging. It will be like plug in hybrids, polls show most people never bother to plug them in, most people wont bother to battery swap and will just charge
NIO looks a lot more aggressive, I like
Also has that Asian eyes😂
So does the price😂
Great stuff, it's also important to note that Nio had 150km range left vs the Tesla which had 20km left on arrival, which is a huge difference.
Thanks! Yes, agree! Important to understand the different use cases.
Exactly
But that's also what I clearly mention in the conclusion
Also don't forget he was enjoying the massage seat on the NIO that is using power so much better than the Telsa..
That extra remaining range must have had a price to it. The total amount of range sold by Nio was a great deal more than what was "tanked" by Tesla. That is also the reason why having more range left for future consumption does not matter here except for potential next stop-time to fill back up. Still interested in the price per kwh per mile.
The 3th generation swapping stations will be ready later this year, which will swap your car battery in 3 mins. Buying Nio should be a great choice
Yes, it's quicker than refilling your car with diesel/petrol! Powerststions van also intelligently regulate the grid via renewable sources too I.e wind and solar 😀
@@JS-go5nd We need nuclear power. Solar and wind is not gonna cut it. At least not currently
the cabin noise level difference is just staggering. W for nio
They improved the cabin noise in the 2023 Model Y massively. All the way up to Mercedes levels. But ye older Model Y's are worse. Tesla constantly improving. Every month new things.
@@HermanWillemshow did they improve it? By tuning the speakers for noise cancelling or actually add noise insolation material around doors and floors?
In fact, NIO will add 1,000 new battery swapping stations in China by 2023, achieving almost full coverage on Chinese highways. It's incredibly convenient.
Chinese communist car will blow up if u dares to drive it 😂😂😂
Doesn't matter still a bad idea
I'm just doing some numbers in my head. That will make 2360 Nio swap stations in China. Each one of those stations has to carry on average 15 batteries per station (up to 21 per station). That's about 35,000 EV batteries - even if we're generous and say each new battery only costs Nio about $10K that's still $350 million locked up in capital plus the cost of the swap stations, maintenance and staffing. And that's just one brand. Imagine if they sold as many cars as Tesla. It only makes sense in a country like China where home charging is not possible and people rely on fast charging. Will Nio be able to compete with all that additional overhead? I don't know but it'll be fun to watch.
But im in Europe. 1 Station 300 km away in Denmark. Even if china had one on each Street corner still dont help me 🤷
I have to rent the battery for around 200 euros/month and still charge like any other ev's.
Copy the tesla Free charge concept, free Batterys for the first model year until we have a usefull swapping network. Else this concept only last a few years.
@@mondotv4216 exactly NIO will have millions of dollars in swap stations and batteries while tesla will be using that money to make more cars..to save the customer 4 minutes which brings zero revenue back to NIO and will make it impossible to grow..good idea for the customer bad idea for the company
Battery swapping. Incredible. First time seeing it happen. I hope it works out for Nio. Thanks for taking us on this journey.
Glad I could help! Thank you for watching 👍
I hope so too. I just YOLOd into NIO stocks. I don't even own a car
I always felt that in the US, we are a very open market but the fact that Europeans are already driving and testing these are amazing. The open mindedness of the Europeans to embrace things from outside is shocking to me. Bravo. By the way I love this video and just learned about this brand Nio, what an EV, this is an exciting vehicle it appears.
Exciting times Indeed!
Glad you liked the video. More is coming.
In the US we privatize profit and socialize losses - for large corporations.
We’re not a truly free market, as can be seen by our immigration (labor market) policies.
We can debate the merits of our policies, but typically we base them on what benefits the wealthy - look at H1B visas. I can’t complain about my salary, but I’d be replaced by an Indian in a heartbeat if my employer would save 50% my salary, regardless of output quality.
Trump’s trade wars didn’t help either. Effectively raised manufacturing costs (capital markets) and nationalized our agriculture industry (land).
I’m older (late 40s) and only stay because of my mom. Once she passes, I’ll begin the emigration process.
USA is an open market?? Hahahahh are you kidding me? USA is blocking and sanctioning any product that threatens it's industry, that's why Chinese products that are more advanced are sanctioned in USA like Huawei and I'm sure Chinese EVs will be also blocked for "security" sake, give me a break
Apparently the EU is preparing to sanction EV companies from China, because Europeans car companies cannot compete and also China gives subsidies to Chinese companies..
Yup let's keep bringing in chineese products. Soon we won't make anything here anymore.
For me, Nio ET7 is a terrific bargain since I won't have to worry about the battery's long-term deterioration (the car stays young).
yes sure, you think they will swap new batteries all the time? can't wait to see this car starting to fail little by little.
@@antoniofauxuci174 In the swap station examination occurs of all batteries rolling out the defective ones
@@almuradyh imagine made in China batteries, probably half will be defective, LOL!
@@antoniofauxuci174 do you know the device you are using now, phones, computers using “made in China” batteries? Even Tesla use blade batteries from byd.
@@antoniofauxuci174 lol which era you live in? boomer eh?
Interesting to know why it took longer than expected. I personally did the battery swap in China with EC6 and it took 3 minutes
Maybe the station needs configuration since it's brand new and the weather may be affecting the swapping time negativity.
There's a new version of the station that doesn't lift the car and is faster than the version on this video.
Yes, testing that one soon. Stay tuned
Another advantage to swapping battery is that you can choose bigger battery for longer range.
Assuming you have a 75Kw battery, if you go to the power station to replenish energy, you can only replace the 75Kw battery
@@yuqingsu-k5t No, if you use the plan of renting batteries, you can choose different capacities according to your needs.
I'm no expert on this topic. But I heard that Tesla charges you a lot of money to replace the battery pack. With NIO you get this essentially for free and your battery pack will never degrade.
It is actually a comparion between: you can only supercharge it VS you can both supercharge it and swap it! More options means more flexibilites and less anxiety.
Yes, mu test is simplified
No because Nio charges way slower
@@Bboy235 The ET5 has a max charging speed of 140 kW. That is too slow and not up to date for such a high price.
Power Swap Stations? Let's have a look to Germany.
Only 2 PSS at the moment...
@@Shaolinof36thChamber Months ago, the number of PSS was 0. Lets stay optimistic:) I agree with that 140kw being too weak, hope it is improving over the next generations.
@@Bboy235 ok, then swapping 10:0 and supercharging 2:10 atm?
Can't wait to see NIO here in the States as an option for purchase. I think they have something unique here. I really like the "lifestyle" approach they've been pushing.
same here, I wish I could buy Chinese EVs in the States, but I know it won’t happen. America is too anti China to let its people see how advanced Chinese techs are
@@lordlee6473 I think the likes of NIO make it here to America in due time. Globalization helps.
@@lordlee6473Though one thing to consider is that the NIO may be too expensive for the average Chinese citizen, especially since the materials of these batteries may very well need to be sourced from abroad and foreign companies need to charge more for their sales in China in order for them to be profitable. It may be unfair to say that Chinese technology as a whole has gotten this advanced, especially since this degree of technology is only realistically produced by a few people. On average, electric vehicles in China operate on much shorter ranges, especially since people in China are not realistically allowed to leave their home communities without going through bureaucratic hurdles.
@@aycc-nbh7289Do you tell jokes again?BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volkswagen, Ford electric cars are all supplied by Chinese batteries, Toyota electric cars are supplied by BYD batteries
@@车迷跑圈 It still changes nothing about my point regarding their affordabilities by Chinese citizens. Foreign cars are considered luxury items in China due to the steep tariffs on foreign manufactured goods on top of the additional money that foreign automakers need to pay to the state. Plus, I’m pretty sure that many, if not most, Western EV’s rely on lithium from Australia, Argentina, and South Korea.
You can also fastcharge a Nio. So there is the flexibility of options.
Yes, that's correct. Still a bit slow though (140kW).
@@ItsOnlyElectric You should try it out. Nio chargers have a flatter charging curve therefore are able to maintain charging speed at at an higher SOC.
@@nanxingluo4902 I did on s ionity charger. With a cold battery though. So it peaked at 115kW. But that was not in optimal conditions.
@@nanxingluo4902 @Nanxing Luo The cgarging curve is more dependent on the BMS in the car not the charger itself. As long as the charger has enough output power for the car.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Does Sweden have any Nio fastchargers? My experience with them in China is pretty good. Fun fact: Tesla owners in China prefer to charge their cars at Nio charging stations because the fees are only half of Tesla superchargers. 😃
Nice comparison, obviously had the Tesla charged to 90% it would have been more time. As mentioned towards the end unfortunately the NIO and swap stations are not available in the US but maybe this will catch on.
Yes, the longer the trip the bigger the different gets. In favor for the swapping
T
The current US administration, (or even the next one), would not allow NIO to sell cars to the US, I am afraid.
Nomi will be declared a "National Security Risk" or "Chinese AI Spy" and will be banned.
@@Birdylockso Yeah, for national security concerns.
Hey man, i discovered your channel not too long ago and i have to say this is QUALITY content :) Keep it up!
Thanks 🙏 glad to hear that!
Just realized while watching your video, the supercharging takes different amount of time depending on SoC at the beginning of the charging while the swap takes the same amount time for getting SoC from any value to 100% (1%-100% or 50%-100%), THAT IS AAAAMAZING! Ofc, it provides a second possibility to get more SoC than most of the EV brands out there offering only 1 possibility. I always prefer more options!
Yes exactly. Supercharging is extremely good when you plan accordingly like in the video. With swapping you don't need the sane type of planning to be able to travel fast, just just need to make sure that there's is a swapper on the route.
By observing the NIO battery swapping procedure I found a lot could be improved to reduce the swapping time. E.g. If they use a " drive thru" design for the station then there is no need to reverse parking the car, which can save a miniute or two. More, it seems they are using one tray system to do both the unloading and loading task. If two trays are employed one for each task, e.g. one tray is loaded with a charged battery ready for loading and the other tray only tasked for unloading. It is possible to save a few minutes more. I felt that with improvements they can shorten the swap time to 2 minutes.
NIO PSS 3.0 is now being installed around Europe. Quicker and and enhanced process and bigger number of batteries in rmthe station. Will be interesting to test.
valid points
you definitely have valid points there. It seems like they already have four different versions of the swapping stations and as time goes by they keep improving.
It costs 90 dollars to do a 40 dollar oil change. They have to pay people to do it. If it was all automated there will be breakdowns in the system.China has a lot of workers who will work for peanuts, not so sure in the USA. You will pay a return charge every time you exchange so stations will have money on hand to fix batteries.How much? Tesla pays $250,000 just to put the out doors charging infrastructure in, what will a storage facility plus charging plus having humans to watch the process? Unless the government gets ruthlessly involved this will never be economical. More than likely driving will cost 3-4 times more per mile. Concepts are great until you start adding up the costs.It`ll sure get cars off the road for the rich people.
This was a great test. I'm here in the US. I own a Model Y Long Range but I'm both an investor in Tesla and NIO. I think both have some great products and technology. While I know this was a focus on the charging tech I will say it seemed like the Tesla, even though that's the Performance model, was a little bit more efficient with the energy it had over the NIO.
The other thing I want to mention is NIO is really going to have to step it up and bring more swap stations online. But that isn't really a negative since you can still use public charging to charge up and you can no even use Tesla's network, assuming they're open in most places in your area, to charge your NIO.
I'd guess I'd say also that this test might need to be repeated in the future when Tesla brings online more and more of their V4 charging stations and their vehicles are even more equipped to handle a faster charge. But the edge may go to NIO is they're simply level 2 charging batteries at their stations. It might mean a little more longevity in their batteries over ones that get super charged.
Again, not really an issue since the majority of people will be charging at home. But the NIO might also make out to be a perfect car for those who live in apartments or places where they can't easily plug in to charge.
Good reasoning. Thanks for watching!
Battery swapping is more complicated to process
I watched a video and saw that NIO already launched their new generation swap station where you can drive into it and changes within 3 minutes. That's like going into a carwash in and out. I'm totally liking that now.
NIO will never be in the US because US will never let Chinese companies into the market or they will dominate the EV market. That’s fact. So the best tech will be out of US until they get a new president.
Great test, the first of this kind in Europe which is very appreciated! Kudos to you guys! I do think that NIO has a bigger advantage than the SuC as the NIO arrived with more battery left. Also, I think that the longer route it would be with battery swap station alongside that route, the difference would become much bigger - also, in time the battery swap should take less than 5 minutes after all the swap stations are calibrated enough and the user is used to the process of the battery swapping - I also think that thanks to the battery swap the driver may actually drive faster as long as it is allowed by the law! :) To sum up, great stuff! Thank you guys for this test.
That's the same reflection and conclusions we did in the summary, so totally agree.
Glad that you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
@@ItsOnlyElectric Keep such video coming and I will be watching, re-do the same test once there is plenty of BSS in Sweden so it can really show its power!
@@ItsOnlyElectric I’m confused. The battery on the Nio gets swapped not charged?
Yes, swapped/changed I don't get the sldifferenc? You get a new battery that's fully charged every time you visit the swap station.
@@ItsOnlyElectric oh wow that’s cool cu you never have to worry about having to pay for a new one.
You didn’t talk about the advantage of getting a refreshed battery as well with the swapping. Also if better technology comes out, you will get a newer battery with longer range and up to date. Try that with super charging!!
Yes there are advantages to swapping no doubt but it's not all one-way.
For example once the swap system has been in place for a few years you might end up with a 6 year old battery in your brand new car the first swap you do - there is no warranty on the battery because you don't own it so NIO can basically decide themselves what is still serviceable.
After 6 years you will be paying more for the battery than upfront purchase.
If you sell your car after 5 years you have paid 95% as much as someone who bought the car with a battery but can only expect to resell for about 60-70% as much because the non battery car comes with a 980 a month YUAN (plus inflation) legacy cost (or the cost of a new battery). When your owned battery dies you have the option of buying a new battery or swapping to renting until the car is dead.
NIO may offer battery battery packs for older cars when they come out but that's a recipe for failure - they will be eating into new car sales significantly - I can't see that happening they will engineer the new batteries to be not compatible with older cars- I think this is a false hope.
There are signs this is not for everyone - NIO never use to offer an option of buying a battery other than with the car new, under pressure from battery rental customers they have announced an option to stop the monthly fee and buy a battery - for them to do this there must be more than a handful of people who want to swap back to traditional ownership.
Who says you get a refreshed battery? Maybe you get an old battery.
@@TB-up4xi your logic is completely flawed. That "6 year old battery" you get from a swap will be swapped out at the next swap, so warranty doesn't apply at all.
Also that resell value calculation is also not correct, since if I'm buying a 6 years old electric car, I'm going to be deducting cost of a potential battery exchange out of the price. The resell value of a swap battery version and a purchased battery version should be comparable over time.
Finally, if I have a battery swap car, NIO would be contractually obligated to guarantee the availability of a swappable battery over life time of that car or however long the battery swap terms run. While they could at any time end availability of a replacement battery on a non-battery swap version of the car, basically destroys resell value of that car. If you worry about NIO engineers new batteries to be not compatible with older cars, then swap battery version is definitely the safer option.
@@TB-up4xi You're never gonna end up swapping your battery for a 6 year old one. But of course, the swapping is going to cost more than charging. Obviously. The cost is going to be passed down to the consumer eventually when they stop subsidizing it. But it solves the problem with range and also solves the problem of very expensive battery replacements
In California, US, superchargers are never operating at their full capacity. When I go to a 250KW station, even when almost empty battery, it only does to about 150 to 200KW, and it slows down as you are getting fuller. Usually, it is about 1KW-2KW per minute. Usual charging time will be around 1 hour, no matter what charge status you have.
These are really early days for battery swapping so I can see the swap speed increasing significantly as well as the user experience. No doubt there will be many improvements in the future as this user experience is at the core of NIOs business model. Nomi, NIO houses etc etc. I also can't see any issues with queuing as that would imply every car will arrive at the station within 10 minutes of each other (or whatever the swap time is). That's just not going to happen, besides, as the network grows you'll be rerouted to another station. They may change the design and use some sort of carousel system...who knows what will come. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds though. Also don't forget that Shell are onboard with this plus full automation will be just round the corner😜
The swap speed can never be increased and it will only get worse. Alread there are queues in Norway, even though NIO has few sales. Battery swap will never work. Max in the city for taxis, but for normal cars - no.
@@marcusbiller867 not sure about your logic. How come swapping will only get worse? You mean swapping will get slower, but that makes zero sense. There are queues because there aren’t enough swapping stations yet which can be solved by building more stations. The same goes for charging stations: if there’s less charging stations than cars needing charging, there will be queues too. Duh. And for NIO, if you don’t have swapping stations available, you can always go to charging stations.
8 minutes to swap the battery is amazing. It’s faster than stopping at a oil change garage.
Can we place an order in the US for a Nio? I refuse to buy a Tesla can't wait to charge it for an hour. My time is to valuable to kill it in a charging station. 😊
@@LifeinBloom1 NIO do have R&D center is US, but I hightly doubt that they will launch their sales in the States. From my perspective, the difference in city planning is the key reason that Power swap station (PSS) will not work in the States. Chinese mega cities are more concentrated, so majority of commuters are traveling from the suburb area to the CBD. So limited number of PSS can easily handle the needs for the battery swap. But in the States, I am assuming the commutes are more distributed, therefore, PSS cannot achieve the highest operation rate and therefore perform terrible on the balance sheet.
If you compare one battery swap to one charging session, the difference might seem minor. But that's not accounting for the fact that the Tesla only charged to the required amount of SoC to reach the destination. If you have a larger distance where at least two stops are required, the difference will be WAY bigger. Because the swap will give you a SoC of 90% which takes a lot of time in a charging session. So for really long trips (1000km or more) swapping will be noticeably faster. Great video and keep it up.
But that's exactly what I say as a conclusion at the end of the video. 😉
However if you had people in front of you at the battery swap….
@@ItsOnlyElectric will NIO succeed in Europe? I'm long 4,600 NIO
I hope you earn s lot of money. I'm not invested in the stock and don't aware of the value. But I really hope they succeed in Europe. Will probably take longer than people think though.
@@pjun6698 'a bit' higher than current levels @ I'm either going to exit or average down
I’d love to see a similar drive test with the BYD Seal when you can get a hold of one.
That's s good idea. Seal not available yet. But soon omi get the Han.
there is a test for BYD seal (700km version) ruclips.net/video/nwA70j1F_lM/видео.html
@@pass3d Awesome, thanks! A little hard to understand given that I don’t speak Chinese. Looks like she was able to get 635km (395miles), but didn’t do much highway driving and *possibly* didn’t use the air conditioning? Still, this is a game-changing moment for LFP, and proves the blade battery is a winner!
The Seal is a whole nother level! Better and more modern plattform, it's the next gen compared to the HAN.
I'm curious how well swapping works in sub zero conditions. Does snow and ice get in the way or has Nio come up with a way around this?
Works fine I Sweden. So doesn't seem to be a problem.
Nio is from China, where it got a much suffcient grid of swapping stations to ease the anixety of left. As the video shows, Swapping has an edge over Supercharging in terms of speed. ( more like traditional oil station filling up your tank ). The only disadvantage of swapping is that it is incompatible with other EVs. I mean, it is a suffcient system only for NIO customers. ? in the meantime, Tesla starts to allow other EVs to use their supercharging stations as we speak. So, in the long run, I believe Supercharging will triumph Swapping.But, hey, SWAPPING IS REALLY COOL AND FAST, isn't it ?
Lots of respect to Chinese EV makers, Salute !
Unless they can convince other manufacturers to also add "swapable" batteries. I could see this becoming a universal thing, at least in China (so Chinese EV cars).
@@m.r.2718 which is very hard to achieve, in my opinion. After all, Nio is a relatively new EV company, not so confident that it has the power to 'talk em into' swapping battery business model.
@@m.r.2718 It's only a matter of the car industry to standardized the battery design. That would cut cost.
@@apolloyang1036 I mean, pretty much all Chinese EV car companies are relatively new to EV lol. Even most European, American and Korean major car manufacturers are new to EV, so I don't think "EV producing age" would necessarily matters here.
@@apolloyang1036 True. But William Li has talked with other OEM's how they could use NIO's swap tech.
Starting with their new upcoming platform NT3.0 other companies can license it from NIO.
Speaking only for myself, I'm ready for a break after 2/3 hours of driving. The ideal for me is a charging station (150kw is fine) near somewhere I can get a good cup of coffee and then stretch my legs.
I agree.. especially if you bring the kids. This test i more a proof of that there's no reason to wine about charging speed and range of EVs. 🙂
Yep. It's sad you need to be in the car during swap. But they can change that in the future. Car could go in and out by itself so you can have coffee.
Just do the swap and and then strech ur lazy legs or you could just charge it just like a telsa. swapping is only a option.
That's great, but swapping still allows for you to take a break whenever you want. It just gives you more options.
I used to drive a battery swapping car from Ample and the experience was horrible. The stations are very complex and break all the time. And often they didn't have a readily charged battery to swap me for, not even half charged to get me going.
It’s fairly new ! Battery swapping actually makes more sense !!! You get a new battery so limitless warranty and you don’t have to get out the car
@@rykson161 I would buy this model if I could either charge at home or swap battery, depending on the case. Ample wants people to solely swap battery, and those issues are simply aggravating.
FOR NOW @@gteixeira FOR NOW/ MANY CRIPPLES COMING TO AGREE WITH ME
@rykson161 you don't need to get out of the car but you can't get out of the car to do anything else while charging
@@jamessmith-yk3sc No way I would stay on the car. Everytime the machine malfunctioned I would be stranded inside the car.
I know that you are only comparing the efficiency of battery swap vs supercharging so in the best case scenario (no wait, etc.), battery swap will always win from a time perspective... at least if/when supercharging really gets faster. I think what folks in the comments are missing is that battery swap offers a lot more flexibility:
1 - You can opt to lease the battery which lowers the upfront cost significantly.
2 - You can lease the lowest range battery and upgrade to longer ranges for longer trips
3 - Don't have to worry about only charging to a certain % in order to save the battery since you can always swap out for a newer one.
4 - Swap stations can charge up to 300+ cars per day and take up significantly less physical land space to deploy vs a number supercharging stations. Also less grid capacity is required.
5 - Oh and you can also supercharge or slow charge at home.
Yes, you are totally right. A lot of other things are great within the concept of battery leasing and swapping.
Great channel just subscribed
@@doubledownlxt9566 thank you for watching! 🙂
Wear on battery/vehicle interface is high.
Number of batteries Nio has to invest in is uneconomic - they can't make a profit.
Its a CCP initiative, not an engineering solution.
Allowing for the recommended 15 minute break every 2 hours of travel - there is no difference in travelling time between ICE and BEV. Tesla charges faster than humans. See Nyland's data for 1000km runs - under 10 hours for many.
@@waynerussell6401 in a perfect world maybe, but in reality it's quite different, at least with battery swap it's more reliable, but thats saying as if tesla isnt like 80% subsidized by the US goverment, and not everyone has time to take 15 mins break out of a 2 hour travel plan, if everyone did then there would no space for charging
Great, objective video! Thanks, the world needs more of this kind of quality reviews.
Glad you enjoyed it! 🙂
What’s the price difference between the model Y and ET7
Depends on battery size and if you lease or buy the battery in the nio. The nio starts at the same price as the top specced model y performance without battery though.
But the et7 should be compared with the Model S. #TeslaModelS
Very interesting. Something not being considered here is driver and passenger comfort, ie going to get a coffee or food, stretch ones legs or use the rest room. On long journey humans like to do these things. So with battery swap looks like you have to stay in the car, therefore these other activities have to be added on…
Love the video 👍
Yes, but passager can leave the car and go grab 2 coffies. But I get your point Thanks for watching! 🙏
Actually everybody can leave the car, if you still remember there was a 10 seconds, in China it is 15 or 20 seconds preparing time, so you can leave the car and buy some drinks or restroom and come back. Even the Nio people in the station can help you park the car outside if you ask him to do so.
If you compare comfort then the NIO has the massage seat..I would think that beat the Tesla in comfort.
Battery swap station gen 3 which is coming out very soon will officially allow unattended swap and I might be mistaken but supposedly gen 2 will also get that update.
Doesnt make sense to wait in line to drive into this swap station.
I am really surprised by how it took almost 8 minutes to swap your battery. I've seen videos of it in China being done in less than 5 mins for the whole process. Perhaps they are still calibrating.
Maybe, some swaps take 5-6 mins according to the operator. But I tried twice.
Swap stations in Europe are not the First versión one. Swap station is constrained by the time it takes to charge the bateries. If you have only 5 batteries, you should adjust the swap time to make sure you have always a battery at 100% after the one you swap.
The batteries was charged and ready. I think the longer time can be due to colder weather as one delaying factor. Tools and battery need to be warm
Fully Charged test in China resulted in half an hour charge including waiting time.
The wear and tear on the battery and vehicle charging interface is a real concern.
Nio are a long way from being profitable.
@@waynerussell6401 in cn they are goverment subsidized, but you want a situation where they will always have more batteries than needed, as it will serve their clients best, imagine if everyone owned a nio, the amount of battery swap stations and battery needed...
Great video and thanks for documenting this. It would be very interesting to see how battery swapping stations work in scale. For example, Tesla is building bunch of super chargers on i5 HWY between Northern and Southern California. Kettleman City has 95 Superchargers and they get very busy on major holiday. I am just wondering how many swapping stations NIO needs to build to match the same capacity as 95 Tesla Superchargers. Also, I would be wrong but I imagine both the CapEx and OpEx would be a lot higher on NIO vs Tesla's superchargers. Let's say if both NIO & Tesla are given $200M to expand charging/swapping network in Sweden, which company would provide the most coverage and cost benefit to the public? Also, there are no standard for swapping, so it will only work for a single brand NIO. Superchargers work with diff brands.
Hi and thanks for watching and commenting!
It's a really though question!
I'm not into the details of the establishment cost for chargers and swap stations. But 1 swap station is for sure more expensive to build than 1 Superchsrger. Let's speculate: The new swap station 3.0 has a daily charging capacity of over 500 cars. One Supercharger can handle 48 charge cycles per day if the average charging session is 30 minutes. One swap station 3.0 then has the linear capacity of 10 superchargers by its own. But the demand of charging is of course not linear during the day and there will be peak hours with higher demand and hours with now demand.
So the practical real world capacity of 10 superchargers are higher then 1 swap station.
But: the swap station is normally companioned by a number of fast chargers to even out peak hours.
So the cost of swap station with let's say 3 fast chargers needs to be compared with at least 10 superchargers. I assume 10 superchargers are a lot cheaper to establish.
This is of course on a theoretical and a very simplified level of calculating. A nother thing that needs to be part of the calculations is the battery subscription fee and how much of that that "funds" the swap stations.
A swap station can serve up to 10 cars per hour, while a surper charger can only serve 2-3 cars per hour. And the power demand is much higher for the super charger, since swap station can charge batteries over time and can help the grid. Nio has more than 1000 stations in China. So I think they have their number checked.
From NIO published resouces, I recalled that each gen 2 swapping station (with 13 batteries pre-loaded) costs around 1.5M￥CNY (210k $USD). Now NIO is building gen 3 stations (21 batteries -preloaded) along highways in China , not sure how much that cost now.
Here in California, Super Chargers ONLY work with Tesla. The other problem with Tesla Charging is, when you have two cars charging next to each other, the charge drop due to share load.
Another benefit of battery swap is off peak charge, meaning, with Solar Panel, today if you are a Edison Customer, the ON peak for business is day time, for family is night time, Battery super charging can be done without a customer waiting.
the issue with swap stations is very simple. You need extra batteries for every car on the road, if the technology changes over 5-10 years the number of batteries you need to be able to swap and charging is a simpler more cost efficient proposal
150km range left vs the Tesla that had only 45km left upon arrival is actually amazing ( Very impressed with NIO ) and what this video should also point out is that NIO can also power charge just like the Tesla can, but NIO also has it's on carry onboard charging pack just in case you end up running out of energy and could end up sitting around, which Tesla also does not have. My next car is a NIO 🙂
So when are you going to buy it then? Because the sales are VERY bad for Nio. Seems nobody is buying them. Please buy one soon then ok. Don't wait too long. We need sales.
Battery swap is cool but think about if you have 10 or more cars waiting to swap a battery. The swap station is much larger than having multiple supercharges can you put 30 swapping stations side by side Just a thought.
bla bla bla bla all these stupid people in the comments with 0 brain
Exactly. Also why swapped while it is full?
and ? If there is multiple cars first on line you could just use with NIO superchargers if there is a one available. What is the problems? if there is only superchargers and there is a line (10 users) it takes time a lot too before you can start charging .... Do not forget that NIO you could charge at home, supercharge or swap... with others... just 2 ways... Think again this.
It's the other way around. For the capacity a swap station offers (amount of cars 'recharged'), its physical footprint is WAY smaller than a rapid charging site.
And you still don't HAVE to swap is there really is a cue. Charging will definitely not go away.
A swap station has charging as well. I'd rather be 5th in line to swap and get a 90% battery than DC fast charge from 5-90. The key is that with nio, I have that option.
I prefer a nio > tesla any day
I only need 3 mins to fully fill up my petrol tank with plenty of stations everywhere. Nothing beats that.
Great example of showing that charging and range anxiety should not be an issue in the modern age of EV
Exactly!
I wonder what the price difference is between swapping vs charging
I did put some info in the description for that. 👍
Nomi is such a best assistant on a car 🥰 it's cute and useful
I would be tempted to place a small bag over Nomi's head .... a little too creepy if you ask me
how about cost? which use more $$ on electric?
It's in the description above.
And if you would have travelled 50 km extra, the Nio would be able to do it immediately, whereas the Tesla would require another 12min charging. Also, charging faster would require another type of battery (more than 800V?), whereas swaping under 5min would just require the generation 3 swap station that is almost available.
But that was a great video!
Yes, that correct! Thanks for watching.
That's assuming you can find a charger fast enough to charge 50km in 12 min or have space, the same could be applied to battery swap stations but it will almost always have a free space since the other drivers isnt off somewhere in some cafe spending time to charge for 1 hour, while you neee to charge your for 10 mins.
That's the good thing with Tesla superchargers, they are almost everywhere and most often without queues.
@@ItsOnlyElectric That is not the case on highway during the holiday travel season.
Depends. in 7 years I have queued once. But of course very dependent on where you live and when you travel
these guys are so exciting to listen to.
i must have watched over a dozen times
If we look to the design, Nio is better on every aspect. Quality as well; its just incomparable in that manner. Just drove a Tesla model S and Nio Et7 and well, Tesla’s have a lot to learn from the Chinese when it comes to ‘premium feeling’ sorry to say that !
Advantage of the charging instead of swap is that you can use those 12mins to something else. Go to the toilet, buy some food..etc. If you need that in the NIO you have to take time after or before the swap, and you end up using more time in total :)
Don’t forget you are not using newest battery swap station but used V 3 super charger so if you used generation 3 swap you would be out in 3 min all together
This is the newest available in Europe. Only couple of weeks old. Next comparison may be between Swap gen3 and Superchsrger V4.
Assuming there is no queue. We have a place called Jiffy Lube in the USA, where they promised 15 minute oil changes....once your car was up on the lift. There was always a queue. I started to get my oil changes done at Walmart where there was no delay of my own time as I shopped for an hour while they serviced on my car during that time.
What about the cost of charging vs swapping. And if there is a malfunction at the swiping automation.... are you stranded till they fix it? Whats the guarantee they will always have a charge battery waiting for you? What about weather? Snow and slush buildup under the car will not interfere with automation if the robot undoing the battery bolts?
Over 10 million swaps have been done in china. So the concept seems to be working. If the system fails, let's say in-between the swap (standing without battery) you will probably be stuck for s while. 🙂 But at least in Sweden there's a operator on site that probably can help out.
There's is no warranty for s charged battery for you. But the car "books" a battery and handshakes that beforehand with the swap station. So as long as you have a booked slot you will have a battery.
If we wanted to balance the charging times .. why not do like for like and charge the Tesla also to 90%. Also NIO is not limited to only battery swapping, it can also be charged as a regular EV.
Yes, but when charging no chance compared to a Model y today. The interesting thing was to compare Charging with swapping. But as a mention at the end: The longer you travel the more time you save with the swapping
Don't forget though NIO is nearly twice as slow to charge as the Tesla at dc chargers so if you have a mix of swap and charge needed on the trip (too far between swap station and destination ) then the Tesla may be quicker again
what about 10 Nios and 10 Teslas? I bet Tesla team will win. There are lot more Tesla charging stands than Nio battery stations.
What about a toilet stop? If you replace the battery in NIO, you don't have to be in the car at that time? This means that after replacing the battery you have to stop again to use the restroom. While charging, you plug in the car and go do your business.
Right, because when you are swapping, there are laws preventing you from using restrooms immediately before or after. If you attempt to "do your business" after swapping a nio battery, it is punishable with jail time I heard.
@@randomname931 But that adds time.... and time is money, and money is beer.
Thanks a lot. I have to wait 18 months to swap my car with an electric one. No idea yet what the brand will be, I have not decided yet. But I liked battery swap. It's very quickly done. Till than I will be watching your video's. :) You have a subscriber.
Thanks! Maybe my videos can help you choose a new car. A lot of videos are on the way. Press car this and the next weekend too. 👍
interesting test, but must be very special and optimized route to work for the car with battery swap.
In this case maybe 1 out of 2 possible routes in sweden where it works.
I have been in China for 2 weeks driving Nio et7, where they have more than 1200 swap stations (sweden 2) but there is still much easier to quickcharge becouse there is to far between swap stations. Sometimes you must swap battery after 150 km to have range to next station or you must drive to other side of a 3 million people big city, can easy be 30-60 minutes to get to the only swap station.
So nice tecnologi, but probably impossible to get swap stations in as many locations as there are fast chargers, and that is probably what you need to make it work properly.
Yes, still only possible for a couple of routes her in Sweden. But in the longer ru n when the network is bigger it will be a whole other story.
@@ItsOnlyElectric i ll come back in 5 years can check u said to look how much swap station will grow grow faster than tesla supercharge or station swap
Why should you think only of battery swap?
On a long journey, swapping is probably ideal because the locations of the swap stations will be on the fast standard routes.
For shorter journeys, charging is probably easier.
The good thing is, you don't have to choose between one or the other.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Nio will not last long enough to develop a charging network. Compared to Tesla they have no manufacturing ability.
@@David34981 Nio is very slow at fast charging compared to competition, Nio max speed about 130kW, other brands are 170-270 kW. Not funny to have 20-30 minutes extra at charging
The balance of each battery the NIO Should have more range left after the trip because at the swap NIO got fully charged.
I like the swapping idea, if they have enough built.
Thanks for doing this video, but the question is you cant take the NIO anywhere like the Tesla how many swapping battery stations are there compared to tesla superchargers. I live in the US and there are superchargers everywhere or EV chargers everywhere not sure about battery swapping stations but the best thing about that is you dont have to worry about replacing battery when it goes bad bec you can always just swap the battery unlike with Teslas after for example 10 yrs maybe need a new battery.
And you can of course fast charge all NIOs. Swapping is not the only way of "charging".
Very important note! Nio power charge 3.0 is gonna release soon with 800v architecture which can charge at 500w by q2
Yes, looking forward to that;
What year is that Model3?? How come it’s trunk has a bigger opening? That looks like a real hatchback!
It's a #ModelY 🙂
You can immediately hear how much lounder the Tesla cabin is at 3:20
Yes, not comparable cars in that manner. Two totally different classes. Review of the et7 coming soon
If i'm not mistaken that sound is the same sound from Nio ET7 just volume have been increased for you to hear person on the radio more clearly. So Tesla isn't louder, we actually did not got any example of actual audio recording from Tesla side, it was all over the radio, which was weird way to do it when you already have camera on another side filming at same time.
True. But the nio is another level when it comes to noise. The model y is not loud, but the nio is extremely quite. Review coming soon.
Its widely known Teslas have poor build next to rivals...
@@ciybersal9833 Its a TSLAQ myth.
Tesla beats Nio and every other manufacturer in every analysis of faults per 10k and in customer satisfaction surveys. Lutz, detailer Out Of Spec, RSymons British importer, Munro and McElroy have all praised Tesla build quality.
"Better than a Bentley" Munro on pre-inspection of Model S Plaid teardown.
For me this test shown that battery swap considering all what comes with it, does not really makes sense except maybe some very special situations. However as changing speeds are are improving, my educated guess is that on the long, this will make absolutely no sense.
On even longer trips (+500km) it will make more sense with swap.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Special cases, maybe like travelling agents. Above 500km I definitely need a longer break anyway. Honestly my car charges like sh!t compared to Tesla (~45kW), and I still did not feel it as a problem during my long trips. A really quick coffee + toilet break can take easily 15-20 minutes. My chargings were about 30-40mins, so I took a sandwitch or just checked my mails / social media for a few minutes.
Cost of each?
Can you leave to go washroom or buy food when swapping?
If you come back late will it park in the lot by itself when swapping?
In the future swap station s you can leave the car.
Nio is best for me in every aspects. 👌🇰🇷🇰🇷
How is the billing when you swap your depleted battery with a fully charged one? I believe the price is different when your batter is fully depleted or 75% depleted.
Yes it is. You pay a flat fee for the swap as such and a kWh price for the delta between the two batteries..
Unless NIO battery swaps become adopted by users on a universal scale, they will never be more than a niche item. Telsa charging is striving for universal standards that the IRA is backing. The game is still on, but the outcome has already been settled.
In europe they have a robust plan for building the stations. I live in norway and own the ES8, and the owners here already use the stations on the daily. It works great, and I can drive between all the major citys and not worrying about charing at all. Sweden and danmark have their first stations up, germany as well, and more coming trough central europe. I think this is a game changer.
Netherlands already build 4 swapping stations. And more are comming. 👏👏
more then 60k swaps happens everyday this is just the start for Nio. Tesla cars have nothing thats better then nio. nothing
Tesla needs to fix their quality issues first. Nio is so much better
You're confused. Tesla offers nothing more than NIO, as you can charge a NIO in the conventional way as well. But you can't swap a Tesla's battery - ever.
Thank you so much! Few other considerations: 1. tear/wear, I think supercharging on the long run also is a disadvantage (assuming the swap station charges more battery friendly) 2. Peaks, assume you are 10th in the queue in both cases (this was really the best case scenario but if everyone indeed buys electric cars waiting time can change especially that by the growing network maybe Tesla is winning the capacity war turning the page) 3. Loads, would be interesting to test 4x120 kg weight ;) or at least a regular family size... 4. Remaining charge, I think it was not stressed enough how much advantage it is to have 3x more capacity at disposal after "arrived" 4. maybe a to/back test would stress this a bit better....
蔚来也可以充电的 ❤
Nio can also be fast charged
Unless it`s (that station) so busy that they run out of batteries.
How many cars can a nio battery swap station take at one time? Because I know at charging stations there is always a lot of spaces. Just wondering. Would that affect time swapping batteries which would make charging better?
Here is some more info on that:
ruclips.net/video/mMKGqwZY6aE/видео.html
I think the main problem with battery swapping stations is the amount of space they take up. Imagine having 10 or 15 of those swapping buildings instead of 10 or 15 parking spots with chargers. Also all cars need to be standardized so i don't think battery swapping will take off, especially since charging speeds are increasing every year there will soon be no need for swapping stations anymore.
Battery swap will work for any premium brand. It cost more (the car itself) and provides better experience. A swap station occupy 3 parking spots, and can serve about 10 cars per hour.
Swapping stations supercharge batteries as well. The difference is that it supercharges the battery when you are driving.
Say a swapping station takes 10 parking lots of space, it probably holds 20 batteries or more. I do feel swapping is a superior route but my concern is whether is sustainable. This means the car manufacture has to overcharge for the car as they have to include the battery cost for the swap stations.
2 different philosophies. Nio want to prevent degradation and extend the life of the batteries and therefore promotes the possibility to slower caöhsrge of the batteries with the battery swapping solution.
Dont make sense ... battery swap does not take up 15 parking spaces, also feeds the grid when not in use , also not enough room for a charger for everyone, and a lot of people, are big percentage cant and won't be able to either.... terrace streets , flats , Tower blocks etc , and who wants to be stuck with the same battery, people out of warranty with poor quality tesla are being charged 23k for a battery replacement... more than the car worth , who going to buy a poor quality tesla and particularly one out of 8 year warranty, even people with genuine tesla faults in warranty struggle to get repairs, some are made to sign a gagging order before repairs ... Google tesla quality , Google tesla scandal
it only takes 2 parking space。 how many parking spaces will a petrol station take?
Question, how many battery stations are built at one site? If it’s only one and these cars start to sell more, this can be an issue. Just having two cars ahead of you will waste about 20min.
In Sweden currently only I swap station and a couple of chargers at one site. Don't know how it looks at other sites in other countries.
I have only seen 1 station per site however if the station is being used you can always supercharge.
China is now using the second-generation battery replacement station, and it only takes 3 minutes to replace the battery. It can change batteries for 5 vehicles at the same time, and one station can change batteries for 500 vehicles a day. Every city in China builds how many battery replacement stations according to the proportion of vehicles.
Isn't that the third generation of swap stations that's takes up to 21 batteries?
As some already stated, the Tesla will win all day long if you consider this things:
1. You will need to stop for both lunch and restroom stops. While doing this, the car can charge. In the Nio you have to make an extra stop.
2. If there was a one, or more car in line for the swap station the wait would be monumental. Tesla SuperCharger station always contains many charger, so the risk for waiting time is minimal.
3. As you say in the video, there are only two shaping stations in Sweden right now. Even if they build many new, they're still going to be really rare. Tesla SuC are everywhere.
4. The Tesla is much more efficient, in long trips this really make a lot of difference.
5. The price! The Nio is a really nice car in many ways, much more luxurious for example. But the price is a joke compared to Tesla. If you buy the car WITH the battery, you can't use the swap stations, and if you buy the car, and RENT the battery you can do it, but the pris is huge (for both options).
Sorry Nio, I would like you to succeed, but the other competitors are much better in almost every way (not only Tesla).
A lot of good points. Thanks!
When it comes to price, the ET7 should be compared to the #TeslaModelS long range. The NIO is then cheaper 200k SEK cheaper.
Nio is larger, more modern, Swap option and more comfortable, better build, wider, quieter and has Vehicle to Load (V2L) technology teslas dont have. So hello newcomers bye bye Frog 3.
I drove both Tesla model S and Nio ET7 and can confirm that NIO is way better and prettier as well; quality is 10x better! Tesla’s tech is betrer that’s true, but I prefer pretty cars and drive comfort 😊
ET7 ride quality is fantastic with the air suspension!
Nio is better
4 minutes of differences doesnt justify to screw/unscrew the bolts every few days, and the infrastructure for that.IMO.
Battery swaps look to be more effective. However, it's not as convenient as charging everywhere with Tesla chargers you will be limited to only the locations where there are swap stations
And you do have to get out the car
Two questions, why the swap station is not a drive through? How many battery cycles (swap, recharge, swap again) per day?
Over 400 swaps per day on the newest version .
Hands down, battery swapping is more convenient, time saving. Can't wait for NIO to come to the US, I want one so bad. There are no good EV options in the US right now that's why I haven't bought one yet
Given what we have in the congress, you have to wait until cows come home. Sad.
That's sad. Hope the situation between us and china gets better.
National Security Warning !!!!!!
Battery swap would be double the time if there was one more driver at the station, while with the Tesla it takes the same time every time (unless all stations are preoccupied which never happens)
The new swap station takes less the half the time (under 5min). But if there is a queue it will take a lot longer. But thatvalso goes for fast charging. And if a charge station is occupied enough you won't get the full power from the charger and charge slower.
Have made a more detailed comparison between charging and swapping:
ruclips.net/video/mMKGqwZY6aE/видео.htmlsi=nH3kJvMDTILHocbj
Thanks for a great video. Also, in a couple of years the Tesla will deplete its battery faster and possibly take longer to charge, whereas the NIO will always have a new battery. That goes for the depreciation of the value of the car as well. I've gotta say, I think battery swapping is the superior system, especially as you can charge the NIO conventionally as well.
The battery that you've just swapped into your Nio will have been used and abused by others who will have had no incentive to take care of it. If you own your battery you are more likely to take care of it.
@@lookingatsunsets636 That's not true, whatsoever.. NIO monitors the battery health of the packs in the swap stations constantly. And they can fix bad cells or discard (=recycle) defect packs because of that reason. Battery swap actually can therefore result in much better battery health overall. Owning the battery actually gives you a huge financial burden, and meanwhile the battery will degrade whatever you do.
@@lookingatsunsets636 Also, when new battery tech comes along the NIO will get that new tech seamlessly, however the Tesla (and all conventional EV's) are stuck with that battery that's just getting older.
@@lookingatsunsets636 The battery you own in the TSLA will deteriorate no matter how much you take care of it. Its inevitable.
Depends. Seen Tesla batteries loose on only 7% after 9 years and 260 000km. So with that in mind the battery will have a longer life than the car itself.
Wonder what happen to the battery that is being replaced in the Nio car. Does it get recharged to be ready to swap to the next Nio vehicle? How many replacement battery would there be at the swapping station?
It's sent to charging in the swap station. The newest version 3.0 has up to 21 battery packs.
The battery swap station is indeed more efficient. However, when the growth rate of the electric vehicle market slows down, there is a high probability that the new battery you purchased will be replaced with an old one.
and equally high probability that the old one you just got will be replaced by a newer battery the next time you swap, and confident that the battery go get will always be within acceptable capacity.
Excellent video...answered many questions
Thanks for watching!
The problem is nio doesn’t have many swap stations when comparing with superchargers network. When nio builds enough swap stations, we will have V4 superchargers all over.
So can the V4 supercharger change your Tesla battery when it wears out or gets damaged. How about if great new battery technology comes out can the V4 supercharger change out the permanently fixed battery in your Tesla? Didn't think so.
What happens if new battery technology can't use the current charging system?
Nio can also be supercharged like Tesla does...plus battery swapping of course
awesome video congrats from spain. it would be nice to see the economy saving of both systems and also compare with the combustion one either benzin or diesel. therefore we can cover both top scenerios 1.- TIME 2.- MONEY. you both make a great team, hope to see a next video soon. cheers.
Muchas gracias! 🙏 Glad you enjoyed it. We are planning a new big tests for the spring when the snow is gone. So stay tuned! Greetings from a cold Sweden.
Thanks for sharing these results. Nio ET7 and Tesla Y are both great vehicles. But your test is not done right. Tesla Y was charged just enough to make it to the finish line with only 12 km left. You should've fully charged Tesla to be fair.
In any case, there are many more advantages of battery swap than the time saved during charging.
Thanks. This test was meant for a specific trip. Didn't need more battery.
But what you nention is exactly what a say at the end: the longer you travel the more you gain with the swap technology.
Purpose of this test is more practical than theoretical. Conclusion: If you travel longer than 500km Nio is a clear winner. But only if there is enough swap stations available, which will take many years (at least in Europe). But NIO has started to execute on its great plan of building swap stations in Europe. A very exciting future!
The battery swap is a great idea if not essential in densely populated areas where charging stations are a logistical nightmare should everyone start driving electric cars. Adopting the concept that your car is an electric tool where you swap out the battery makes sense, however there'll be queues for battery swaps as well as charging stations when the majority of us embrace the technology. Fundamentally there'll still be a massive infrastructure required for both charging stations and battery swaps.
This was a very interesting comparison.
Yes, interesting indeed.
There will also be swap accidents.A man in Norway said his NIO car told him to go to the nearest dealer because one of the bolts holding his battery in was stripped. I`m guessing it happened during a swap.Who pays to fix that by the way?
Swap battery is a wrong decision, do not forget NIO is losing a lot of money per car... In fact, all that you see is costing double, but they still push for... In the end, is about preferences. We are adaptable so we can leave or with pauses, or with swapping... But I prefer Tesla as I consider their batteries and electric motors better products.
This was a great video, by the way. I am definitely a fan of your channel now. One last thing I wanted to mention regarding the cost of the infrastructure buildout of swap stations. NIO has signed strategic agreements with Shell, Sinopec(China's largest oil co.) And CNOOC(China's 3rd largest oil co.) to cooperatively build battery swap stations on retail sites these giant companies operate. It makes sense for these companies to try and capture revenue and customer traffic from the increasing number of EV owners.
I'm glad that you like my channel! 👍
Yes, that's a big deal for NIO, and I hope it comes to its benefit soon.
My concern is that Nio's business model is shaky. Neo needs to build swapping stations equipped with spare batteries along all major corridors, which is more expensive than building charging stations. That cost cannot be shared by other manufacturers, and it has to be recouped, which puts Neo at a disadvantage compared to all conventional EVs. Without the financial support of the CCP, I'm not sure they'll be able to build enough stations to make this truly viable. The stock price has tanked. I know, because I bought shares a few years ago.
The race to build EVs from scratch to taking over all Regular gas powered cars is literally the story of the “tortoise and the hare” slow and steady is going to win this race not rushing to the point your companies exhausted and over whelmed
You need to remember that the chinese market alone can cover any cost they experience, a few swap stations in EU isnt gonna tank their stocks
@@Hhhh22222-w Neo stock was selling for about $59 in January 2021. It's been steadily declining since that time and it is now at about $8.50.
@@MrTeff999 NIO is not a car company, they are an energy company that sells cars, will build homes and deliver energy to homes. I am long term investor in NIO.
@@Hhhh22222-w How much does one swap station cost. Im talking about CAPEX and OPEX. (Both capital expenses and operational expenses per year) ? You have numbers ?
I like the NEO design and the small robot, it's really cute:)
Battery swapping would be an amazing ide on semi's.
Agree! Thank you for watching
And Taxis
It was beneficial to see a real comparison of this specific aspect (i.e., power regeneration) between two firmly established pure EV brands.
Thanks
Battery swapping is costly (for may reasons), Nio needs to produce way more batteries than cars and there is no optimisation for the battery pack for all Nio models which will lower the eficiency amongst others, and time of swapping will change when there is a queue. To me it just doesn't make sense, and think it will disappear over time to be honest.
Good Video you made.
Battery swap decreses the need for battery cells, as you can have a smaller battery for day to day use and then swap to a big one when needed. Also more and more charging stations are installing battery packs to help the grid.
Thanks for watching!
I don't think you can choose the size of the pack when swapping? You get what you bought or are leasing. That's at least my understanding.
@@ItsOnlyElectric Hopefully one day, Nio will have the same strategy in EU as in China. In China, no matter you lease the battery or own the battery, you will have battery swap. And if you have 100 kwh battery but not using that much on your regular trips, you can join a battery share program that you will use the 75kwh battery instead of the 100kwh, but Nio will gave you Nio points back.
That's sound smart! A flexible model
Wonder how it felt using the massage seat while driving. Also how is the build quality of the NIO vs the Telsa?
Review of the nio coming soon!
It's not hard to have a better build quality than Tesla
I'm happy with the teslas I have had.
I love the comment "not a soft German massage a proper Chinese one"
Funny but true! 🤣
Best of luck to Nio and great job Tesla already. Evs must take over the automobile industry
Yes, both need to succeed.
Why did you guys drive down to Jonkoping which added at least 60 minutes more to this trip.
What do you mean? We drived to Gothenburg. Jönköping does not add 1h to the trip. And there's was only to swap stations present in Sweden at that time. One in Mantorp and one in Varberg. 🙂
Swapping isn't sustainable or scalable. Its a gimmick.
charging is not scalable in dense area in china, but people don't know that in europe and i agree we don't really need it in europe as well. what we need is just a car that is not bad quality plastic :)
Battery swapping is sustainable it can mean we don't need to use lithium battery s and we can go for recycle able battery such as aluminum batterys
Yes, and also not charge them as fast to extend the battery life time
How is that gimmick?
When travel I am not the only one on the road , ust wonder how many car could battery swap accommodate on a busy day? how many car can swap station can do at once?
how long one has to wait in queue for 50 cars come into the station? compare to 50 cars at the super charger station.
Swap station 3.0 can do ower 500 swaps a day.
Too many Tesla fans on this comment 😂
They are bots coming from Electric Viking Chanel.
😂
Vast majority of day to day driving doesn't require anything but plugging in at night. A supercharging stop for me is rare on long distance trips and more often than not coincides with a stop I want to make anyway.
Real life with me: I currently have dynamic prices with extreme low electricity prices in the weekend, even had one day -33Eurocents per kWh. Yes negative prices. I filled up my Tesla and got paid almost 20 euro. I got PAID to charge my car. I mostly charge the car in the summer in the weekend at daytime saturday or sunday depends whats the plan. Or at work if the prices are lower there. I have many options.
Actually I have stocks in NIO but my question is can swap stations handle same amount of cars that fill up at a petrol stations?
Newest gen 3 can swap over 400 batteries in a day. That combined with a couple of chargers will roughly handle 500 cycles in a day.
The battery swap of 8 minutes took longer than usual. My NIO battery swap was under 5 minutes in Beijing 换电站
I tried twice with the same results. But newly installed stations maybe left some room for adjustments and improvements.