Disqualified Pastors Keep Pulling This SAME Unbiblical Trick
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- These disqualified Christian preachers keep pulling this unbiblical trick… In this video, Todd Friel warns against following preachers who have been caught in sin, but then “restored” back to being a qualified pastor.
Wretched TV and Radio are hosted by Todd Friel. On the show, you will see and hear live witnessing encounters, discussions of tough theological issues, and Christian commentary on current events. We might even make you laugh.
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"Above reproach" is an absolute Biblical must, that must never be disgarded.
Yeah. And “above reproach” doesn’t mean “you don’t get to criticize me” like so many of these guys think.
I agree, but there's likely lots of disagreement over what this precisely means/how it is precisely defined.
It draws a line, for sure. But where that line exists is going to have some degree of variance depending on who you ask. That isn't to say it's a subjective truth by any means, but it is to say that there is at best a moderate degree of difficulty in coming to a consensus or perfect understanding... even among brothers who are seriously minded and seeking the truth on the matter. Just like nearly every other doctrine where real Christians are prayerfully looking at the same information in the same book asking their same God to guide them into truth, yet still coming to quite drastically different conclusions.
It's sounds more like the Demorats.
@@gray_rain some of the line could probably drawn at the other qualifying factor of having "a good standing in the community". Even the outside world see these pastors as shameful. But at the end of the day a "lead pastor" needs to be on the same level as any other elder. 99% of the time these lead pastors override the wisdom of the other elders. when that happens run.
I absolutely agree with you, they can be restored to being a member of the body but never in the place of leadership again.
Robert morris sin happened 35 years ago ago! We all better learn to extend the same grace and mercy that God gave the entire world! We will be judged by the same measure! We use
James 2:13
“For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
Galatians 6:1-8
English Standard Version
Bear One Another's Burdens
6 Brothers,[a] if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5 For each will have to bear his own load.
6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
@nschlaak "they can be restored to being a member of the body "
IF (big IF) they are truly saved, they ARE members of the body. They can never be OUT of the body. There is only ONE body. A local church is not a body. It's just a local assembly of Christians.
It's not here a body, there a body, everywhere a body, body. That common idea is NOT Scriptural.
" *_There is one body_* and one Spirit - just as you were called to one hope at your calling - one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all. " (Eph 4:4-6)
@@Packhorse-bh8qn 1 Corinthians 5:5 deals with the destruction of a person's body. However, I was referring to the body of the local denomination and not the body of Christ.
Agree, however the fact they are being restored contrary to the teachings of the early church just proves we are in the last days, where false prophets, and teachers with proliferate. Jesus did say end time events would get worse, and many will fall away from the Truth before His coming, so in a way these false pastors serve a purpose as proof and a warning to those who are waiting and watching for Jesus return. He is coming very soon, in this generation.
@@nschlaak most of us know this. Some people have to be specific or are simply picky. What you said and intended is obvious.
When I was a new Christian I loved listening to James MacDonald, David Moore, and Andy Stanley. Batting a thousand here. Somehow God protected my mind and led me to John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Spurgeon, Washer, Baucham, and yes, even Friel. What a difference biblical teachers can make.
Study what Martin Luther said."Scripture ONLY Scripture." God's word is the only thing you need. All these books to read are not the Bible. The authors put their own twist on Scripture.
The only one I liked was Billy Graham. He only talked about Jesus Christ. The Scripture is Jesus Christ. The Apostles only preached Jesus Christ.
There are men that call themselves Apostles. There were only 10.
These nut jobs today will only get you confused.
John MacArthur's Doctrine is unbiblical. He speaks about gifts of the spirit such as healing, speaking in tongues and prophecy as a thing of the past. But the Bible states this specifically in 1 corinthians 13: 8-10 "Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. " The perfect is Jesus Christ, God made man, who hasn't arrived for the second time yet. So the partial is still not done away. This is why you need to study the Word. "My people perish for lack of knowledge...." Hosea 4:6. Don't Let the theology of man sway you because their Theatrics, Education and/or Rhetoric sound good. Stay Vigilant and Maranatha!
Look up perfect in Greek, means complete not perfection as we use it. Also look up when that which is perfect “shall come” ek mortentos “ which means bit by bit” what did we receive that is complete but by bit?
Ps I’m saying all this off memory right now
@@cole5773 I'm glad you said this. Not perfection but complete. Who is the only one who has been completed into perfection of the body? Jesus as he proved it when he went through walls after the resurrection. What did we receive that is complete bit by bit? Our perfect bodies. When did we receive our perfect bodies? When we started hoping in what was announced in faith. "Bit by bit" means there are things that have to happen before "completion" aka Jesus, comes back. That there's a schedule for the end so that no one deceives us. He literally warns us when the disciples ask him about it in Matthew 24:3
I had the same experience, when I was new Christian I was introduced to Joyce Meyer, and I thought why is she like that with some arrogance , Charles Capp , I forgot the other name from name it claim it teachings and Benny Himm too , I thank God that He removed me from those teaching and was so grateful that led to RC Sproul , Voddie Buckham , Paul Washer and most of the Ligonier ministry
That restoration ministry is nothing but a cover to enable each other
Precisely! 👌
And money laundering too
Exactly. This is why we are warned about wolves in sheep's clothing. This very thing. Wolves don't become sheep and tares don't become wheat. Enough is enough.
Robert Morris supposedly went through 2 years of restoration with counseling and attending the freedom ministry. Really, it was all of one month then he joined James Robison’s ministry. 2 years after being found molesting a minor, he was made an Elder of Shady Grove church in Texas. Shame on the Shady Grove Leadership! 🤬. This is all in His book.
Todd has an amazing way of discussing a tough subject without being hateful and insulting. He speaks the truth clearly, with passion. 👍
Not in this case. He adds to scripture and goes outside the bible to make his weak argument.
I agree that Todd is a master communicator but he does not know how to handle the Word of God. If you know the real thing, the counterfeit is painfully obvious.
This is primarily a MEGA pastor syndrome. We put them back in office because we forget that a growing church does not necessarily mean that God's church is growing.
Nope, those are just the ones we hear about.
I agree with the previous person commenting. I've seen this type of thing play out in smaller/local churches as I don't attend the "mega-church" variety as well. I immediately lose interest when pastors do not utilize Scripture, and when they promote unbiblical views on tithing, etc. Sexual sin is bad, but these other sins by those in the ministry are almost as bad.
I believe the rampant abuse is worse in smaller assemblies. Egotistical leaders who refuse to have deacons because they are afraid that they will vote out a bad pastor. It’s easy for an embittered and disgruntled person to get into ministry and then abuse the flock in order to vent personal rage and frustration. I have witnessed this problem many times, and it is a common issue in the fundamentalist churches. These sorts of men will never submit to elder oversight. It’s also unbiblical. 🙏🏼
Very wise observation!
@@duranbailiff5337 " Egotistical leaders who refuse to have deacons because they are afraid that they will vote out a bad pastor."
There is nothing even REMOTELY Scriptural about deacons voting out a pastor.
But then, nothing even remotely Scriptural about the common idea of a pastor.
The main reason this Pastor restoration issue has become prevalent, I believe, is because these pastors cannot divorce their identity from their pastoral role. Their identity is not in Christ. It is in being a pastor. And the fact that they were celebrities also feeds into the identity. So they really have no idea what to do without that identity.
BINGO!
Its the only way they know how to make money.
Agreed 💯!
Ditto👍
Yes, they have no skill whatsoever. They are used by Satan to lead people astray and cause people to blaspheme the Name of God. But people love power and worship anyone other than God who has some. I know James MacDonalds sons also got into being pastors. They saw how rich it made their dad.
The thing I most look forward to in Heaven is the absence of temptation and sin. The sins I have committed while claiming to be a Christian have caused me to question my salvation. Men, I cannot urge you strongly enough. PLEASE avoid pornography.
Amen. You, all of you who may read this: you can't win on your own but only by the power of God. It is good to hate the sin, but you must also replace it with something you love. You love Jesus, you love your wife, or the hope for a wife someday, you love your family, and for the sake if these you fight your temptation. Signed a freeman
Where was Lucifer again before falling?
@@narindraramanankasaina2545what’s your point
We're protected from temptation when in Christ, we don't need to wait for heaven.
@@narindraramanankasaina2545what verse was that from?
Our ex pastor committed adultery on his wife while we were there. It was found out and the church destroyed the woman and lifted up the pastor! He never left the pulpit and is still there today! We left and were abused for leaving!!! It still to this day saddens me as he is still the CEO … I mean pastor of the church
CEO is accurate.
This happened at one of the churches we went to when I was growing up. It turned my mom off from going to church and we never went back to church at all after that.
I wish they would focus on restoring & compensating their victims. The victum shaming that takes place in the church is evil & vile.
The victims are scared for life. Yes we’re new creations when we become Christians but the memories are there always and we bring every thought captive in obedience to Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit
Amen!
God’s word is living and active, changes how we think so we think God’s thoughts after Him growing in Christlikeness for that is our desire.
Amen!!! Totally agree!!! Disqualified pastors disqualify themselves as pastors.
Amen.
So you would have disqualified Peter.
@@MrWoody6663 Where was that said or implied?
I watched an interview as Carl Lentz and his wife discussed what happened when he committed adultery.
It was all upbeat and lessons learned, his wife had forgiven him and now they’re using this experience to “help” others. Absolutely shocking.
Not even a hint of godly sorrow at having grieved a holy God.
The problem is these men are so eager to step back into leadership...why not just do an honest days work framing houses, running electrical wire or selling cars? They can simply serve by being a serving part of their local congregations without teaching?
Yep.
And it's because they care more about themselves and their name than they do the name and glory of Christ
I might still be wary of a fallen pastor selling cars
Because they are lazy at the core of it! They want an easy job with a lot of benefits!!!!
Living like the common man does nothing for their ego. That's why they become preachers in the 1 place. Wowing people with great swelling words gives them a buzz that doing humble work like carpentry doesnt.
@@mikemuncy7464These hirelings may think that a pastoral position is easy, or they may want to make it easy, but it is not a cushy position. Preaching funerals, counseling the troubled, dealing with heresy, and having demonic sights set on your position is daunting. Pastors who actually care about their flock and genuinely honor God often work themselves to death. Burnout in ministry is a serious problem. When I was in Bible college we looked at the statistics and I was shocked at how bad it is in the US! 🙏🏼
These so called pastors have crossed a line, they have blatantly sinned against God with no form of repentance to God, if there was true repentance, they would not be standing behind a pulpit.
Huh? What does being brehind the pulpit again have to do with repentance??? Repentance is a change of mind
Robert morris sin happened 35 years ago ago! We best offer the Same grace and mercy God have all!
James 2:13
“For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
Galatians 6:1-8
English Standard Version
Bear One Another's Burdens
6 Brothers,[a] if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5 For each will have to bear his own load.
6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Yeah, Mark Driscoll is one of the biggest offender
@@kevinburke1325 what did he do specifically that was so agregious I can only find quite vague accusations about him. I like watching his sermons so would be interested in knowing.
@user-tq3ud9zi7w if you like his sermons where he attacks men and defends wahmen and feminists, then that's part of the problem right there.
@@WillPower46 he literally buried someone behind Mars Hill after killing them.
It's like capital punishment. NO one wants to (well, no Christians should 'want' to) implement capital punishment OR Church discipline. But it is there to keep law and order, and the PURITY of the Bride of Christ.
The Bible instructs that there are times when capital punishment is required.
Read the Book.
@@jeepstergal4043 I believe you misunderstood me. I am agreeing that c.p. IS Biblical.
I agree with you how church discipline is needed to keep law and order in the church. Church discipline is needed to protect the integrity of the church and to protect God's word. Everyone sins, and no one is perfect, but there are certain kinds of sins, infractions, etc that damage a person's role model status in regards to being a pastor, youth minister, elder, deacon, Sunday School teacher, etc. When someone's role model status is compromised in regards to being in a leadership position in a church, they need to be held accountable and removed from that position.
There are certain kinds of infractions, sins, etc that warrant never being a pastor ever again. If a pastor molests a child, rapes someone, has sex with an underage teenage girl, etc, they should never work as a pastor ever again for the remainder of their life.
@@bikerboy9010 " Church discipline is needed to protect the integrity of the church and to protect God's word. "
That is the PRIMARY purpose. Restoring the sinner is secondary.
@@kathyhart2309yeah you weren't very clear
About 16 years ago, a pastor that had been ousted, was begged to come back to his pulpit. He had been in an adulterous relationship with the school principal. The board pleaded for his return because the membership had gone from 500+/- to 50 or so in his 10 year absence and they couldn’t keep up the payment on the building they built just before his dismissal. Upon his return, I attended there for a few months as I was returning to Jesus after my own wayward stint. I wasn’t prepared for the pride, arrogance and even calling people out from the pulpit for things he didn’t like! One huge impassioned plea later, the Lord led me to a different church. I no longer live in the area and have no idea if he’s still preaching, but one thing; his return really raised attendance!
@@jesusbeloved3953 WOW 😢 That's not good at all. To be more concerned with çrowd levels and money than righteousness of the leader, Jesus doesn't like that👎
I’m so over these Pastors being restored to preaching and the church putting them on a pedestal! How is that holding accountability or consequences for their appalling behaviour. It’s never usually a one off either.
Love your channel Todd. 🙏
It would help if we stopped referring to preachers as pastors. Preachers can be pastors and pastors can be preachers, but they are not automatically the same thing.
What’s the difference?
@@failingdisciple938 A pastor (the same thing as an elder) is one of a group of spiritual overseers in a church, and he must meet the qualifications found in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Pastor means shepherd. His main job is to take care of the flock (the church), not to preach (but of course he can preach, like I said, and he must be able to teach).
A preacher‘s job is to educate, not to oversee the church. And they are not subject to the same qualifications as pastors.
@@rh9626 good answer. Our church has designate roles, though we do call all of them a "pastor" of some kind.
1) Lead Pastor - main preacher, teacher and spiritual care.
2) Associate pastor - organizes small group sessions (aka Bible Study & Fellowship groups) and church wide annual events like VBS and church camp.
3) Teaching pastor - supports the lead pastor in the preaching role. This is a part-time position.
4) Worship pastor - rehearses the musical teams and sings/play with us.
5) Youth pastor - pastors kids grades 6 thru high school.
6) Children's pastor - pastors kids age birth thru 5th grade.
I get what you're saying that not every pastor is a preacher, and some of our pastors fit that description. In our church only our Lead, Teaching, and occasionally Youth pastors preach to the whole congregation.
@@sidwhiting665 I believe this is why there are some traditions that hold to the only listed offices in scripture, elder and deacon. The elder would be a pastoral role, so sometimes it would be referred as a shepherd-elder. Then there are those who have different gifts and they minister to the church with those gifts, teachers, children's lessons, nursery, worship music.... but there are only two offices, and no titles or honorary descriptors. Even pastor as a title is shunned in our church.
Surprised to see Mark Driscoll on this list. I remember when he resigned back in 2014 and I read his resignation letter. It was made clear by the elders of his church that he was not disqualified to serve in ministry. From all the articles I've read, leaders at Mars Hill had problems with his personality and leadership style and there was a parting of ways.
Didn't this video just say he used foul language from the pulpit ? Foul language is not good for a pastor.
@@rg1whiteywins598 So, the elders who God raised up to lead that church, hold him accountable and listened to his sermons every week didn't deem him disqualified from ministry. But, they're wrong and some guy making a RUclips video is right. And, I guess I missed the verse where foul language (very subjective term) disqualified one from ministry.
So did Martin Luther use foul language. But Mark admits he did somethings not right, but no adultery and some explicit language in the Pulpit about husband and wife relationships, and things like that, but I don't think he ever cursed in the pulpit? I could b wrong.. and I heard him a several occasions in he preaches I am through scripture verse by verse also I think he's charismatic but so is a lot of people..
Peter is mentioned as foul-mouthed in the Bible and chosen to lead the church. Im puzzled my Driscoll’s inclusion in this
Indeed. He was also fighting back against a very liberal group of leaders and community in Washington state. Much of his “anger and hostility” was shear human frustration!
I am not above reproach. That's why I'm not a pastor, but an evangelist. I did commit my sins when I was a youth, and not as a Christian, but still, I'm not above reproach. I can however, share with people the redemption of Christ in my life.
The only reason they want restored is because they learned quickly there is no easy money out in real world. So they get repentant real quick. They want back to being praised and followed and access to the big life. They were never godly people and will never be.
Mmhmm they miss the lifestyle the big money brought.
At a former church we attended the youth pastor was involved with one of the young girls in youth group. When it was find out he wws removed. This man a few years later now is a pastor at a church and his wife also is a "pastor" at this church. This was many years ago but I will say I wouldn't want him near my daughters and this was close to thirty years ago.
You are right on, Todd. I've been watching this "restoration" trend for years and it's not good. I'm all for bringing fallen pastors back into the fold, but not in any leadership role whatsoever. The Church in America is under God's judgement right now because of things like this. If we ever expect to see God's blessing on the Church and the nation, we need to get back to Biblically grounded qualifications of leadership.
What do you mean by "the church?"
Once a Pastor loses the trust of his congregation, he should absolutely be stripped of all Pastoral, and official Church positions.
Pastors are rightfully held to a much higher standard by God.
The responsibilities of a Pastor are very important, and serious trespasses are opportunities for attacks from the secular world as they look for any reason to discredit the entire Church.
The Catholic Church is seriously tainted by pedophiles in the ranks.
Worse yet, is offenders are protected, and moved around.
Perfect example with the failure of RCC to demand full accountability. Problem is that just allows past offenders to re-offend. Leadership must have trust, and trust is HARD to regain once it has been lost. Seems like Protestant mega churches are way too lenient when it comes to this "restoration" business. Restore the sinner, yes! But do not restore to the office!
@@sidwhiting665 , AMEN, and well said.
One of the stand out moments for me in the documentary "The secrets of Hillsong", was when Carl Lentz had left the ministry and was in "normal" work focusing on rebuilding trust with his family. When I heard he'd been restored and was now a pastor again I just sighed... :( And then when I suggest these pastors should not be restored into ministry, I get accused of being graceless.
Let them go work at Walmart. I do not want to hear anything they have to say anymore
“However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme…” 2 Sam 12:14
Their hearts weren't after God, their hearts were always after fame and money.
Don’t forget power, influence, and prestige. Low self esteem persons often seek positions that elevate themselves from their past. The “I am going to show everyone who I really am. They never understood my full potential.” mentality. Sadly, the ministry is packed with unqualified, ungifted, and self-called pastors. As bad as the problem is stateside, it’s much worse abroad. They are far from oversight and many write bogus reports on their ministries to supporting churches. I have witnessed this firsthand.🙏🏼
I think you are judgemental. You don't know what "their hearts were always after." You don't know even what one fallen pastor was after.
@@drjcw if this person is judgmental, then perhaps it is because Jesus says, "Do not judge only according to appearances, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24
A good rule of thumb I've heard used for this is, "If the pastor lives in the nicest house and drives the nicest cars in the church, odds are he's in it for the money." We are called to be discerning and given gifts to do so. Do not fail to use them due to the old misused of "Judge not," which is all too common.
@sidwhiting665 Sid, all the judgements are by appearance, every single one. We haven't heard the other side. And if my pastor drives a nice car and has a nice house, great for him. It's none of my business. It's none of my business what you drive, and I won't judge you if I see you.
@@drjcw The Bible clearly warns of people like this. Matthew 7:15-16
[15] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [16] You will recognize them by their fruits.
I used to listen to James McDonald regularly on the radio. I genuinely enjoyed his stuff. I was greatly disappointed when his behavior was revealed. Listening to him helped me greatly during that time. Very similar to Ravi Zacharias. Still value his videos and books. I can't say there is much wrong with what he wrote or said. That being said, I agree they should not return to a position of leadership. Consequences for actions.
James was my payor for 8 years before I left. I saw the writing on the wall
Mark never disqualified himself.
We have been saying this for the past 44 years regarding Bill Gothard and his permissive attitude of actively allowing and overlooking his brother's abuse, not to mention his own emotional and spiritual abuse of staff. Thank you for making this crystal clear. While he was not a church shepherd per se, he had several million followers.
Amen, that's very true. We HAVE TO hold fast to Scripture!
But Todd has gone beyond holding fast to scripture into holding fast to his and early church father's opinions.
Like Romans 11:29
I appreciate this video and the quotes that support the biblically-based history of not restoring leaders who have sinned.
But the bible doesn't say you can't restore a once fallen pastor. Todd reaches beyond the scriptures on this one. Also, what the early church father's say on this is opinion, not scripture. Nothing in the bible says removal is for life.
I love you sir. Thank you for opening the comment section and allowing for fellowship on this subject.
most people including those who CALL themselves Christians don't want truth, they want a pastor who tells them what they want to hear, so they can FEEL GOOD
This video is sound in principle, compassionate in wisdom, and helps protect innocent people who become prey for the Mammon worshiping ground hogs of the Church! A well done articulation of the facts!
But it isn't sound in being biblically true.
I’m surprised that a Pastor who commits adultery can return to the pulpit?
What's surprising is a "pastor" who is not worthy of pastoring, doesn't recuse himself all together.
“For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;”
2 Timothy 3:2-4
Your entry seems to be the most scriptural and complete reason to deny one who has gone from the Lord , to return to public post. Yet we aren’t to judge . The so called pastor is held to an even higher standard than we and the Lord will indeed deal with it. Amen
@@marcisaacs9407 this is what the Pharisees said when the Lord spoke to them concerning their hypocrisy
The fruit is what speaks for any of us
The emphasis must be on the WINE not wineskins
I was abused as a child and I had every conviction in my heart for that to stop with me I didn't want no other child suffering because of what I suffered I was not about to divvy out misery because I experienced misery I was about to protect my children and keep misery from them and be a true dad and a true man and a true husband and yes there is Grace when you fall but you do not become a leader after that you follow the leader my friend
I agree 100%. The folks love the man more than The Word.
Robert Morris and those who have committed similar sins make my blood boil.
If he is restored to pastoralship, that church should be disbanded. It's not a church of Christ, it is of the devil.
The church should be disbanded nonetheless
This!
Reportedly he resigned from the church, although the Elders should have fired. They were afraid they would hurt his feelings if they fired him. 🤬
But he’s enough of a narcissist, I wouldn’t surprised if he showed up preaching somewhere else. He’s only 62.
@@KansasMiss-mf4bj The elders did not follow the scriptures and that should make everyone leave this church. "Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:14
"It's not a church of Christ, it is of the devil."
That would be true even if his morals were pure. He's a false teacher and a blasphemer.
If one has to be totally blameless, sin free, whatever, then no one is qualified. We have all sinned and fallen short. Dirt will keep coming out on others, Should we judge another because ours hasn't been revealed yet? If God can talk through a jackass, He can speak through anyone. Besides aren't we told to trust no man, or woman. Our trust should be in the Bible, or the Word of God. Want a word from God, go read it.
Restored to the church body, NOT the pulpit. 100% agree. That is biblical.
Thank you. Someone finally grts it and says it out loud!!!!!!!! A unrepentant, sinning Christain does far more harm to the church and Christainity than a unbeliever ever could.
The name we didn't see on this list is Peter.
Hmmmm…that’s an interesting point. Thank you for bringing that up. 🤔
That happens when conference delegates VOTE on whether the denomination will accept God's Word or say 'YA BUT' as SBC just did.
What should happen is one should leave it.
I got kicked out of my church for (biblically) confronting our pastoral leadership about the restoration of a pastor that was guilty of sexual promiscuity and under investigation for sexual assault. I asked the same question about "above reproach" and I was removed from fellowship. The cowards never even entertained a biblical approach to restoration or simply a reasonable face-to-face conversation with me.
I'm sorry to hear that. It was probably one of the hardest things you have had to do, but not received
I thank God for you. We need more people like you!
@@robertyoder5477thanks. It was uncomfortable for sure. Not a great experience but not all that shocking once I found out to full truth (which is too long to post). It’s all just sad that it went the way it did. But at least my kids got to see me attempt to biblically approach the situation.
Thank you Chris Rosebro for teaching me how to discern between faithful preaching and false preaching.
Thank you Todd - you help to set my mind on things above.
The Weird Al rendition of that song may be more appropriate, "Another one rides the bus." Quite a few should have served at least some prison time, but it wouldn't jive with the restoration process. 😅
What i have seen too many times, in small churches, is a man gets fired from a church (often seems to be over an affair) and just a few months later he's preaching at another small church. Sometimes now married to the woman he cheated with. New church "forgives him" mostly because they're desperate and he's a talented speaker. Rinse and repeat.
It's as if everyone has a problem with letting go and letting fail, and even letting die. If a tree dies, can it be made to live again, or is it cut down so another grows in its place? Should it still be used to swing from and build forts in? I know this question isn't the same as whether or not salt can be made salty again, but think about it - early churches formed from the ground up, isn't that the only way a church grows and thrives; from the ground up in Jesua Chirst? Only Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, ans The Life.
The same people who would say a pastor should be able to assume the pulpit after being disqualified would vehemently disagree that a youth pastor caught with child pornography should be allowed to watch their dhildren after he has repented.
Thank you for making this video. I've never heard this message before, but it is exactly what every Christian needs to know.
But Todd is going beyond scripture and making scripture say something it doesn't say.
@@RivendellFellowship Thank you for your comment. Could you elaborate more to explain how Todd is going beyond scripture?
A thought I had later after my comment was "Didn't Peter screw up? He denied Jesus 3 times. Did that make him reproachable? Would Peter be disqualified to be a church leader based on what Todd said?"
What are your thoughts?
@EyeToob Yes, according to Todd, Peter is forfeit from leadership. Todd is going beyond scripture by saying forfeit forever. Not in the bible. He is also using early church fathers to back his point. Nice opinions are all they are.
What about Mark Driscoll? He teaches biblically sound doctrine and I still listen to him. Is it possible that this could be a stumbling block? I don’t know how much I agree with you on this. I can see pretty much everyone else on the list but him.
The fact that you agree with Driscoll's theology does not mean he teaches sound doctrine. The very fact that he's practicing false doctrine means his theology is polluted. Everybody says their fav pastor preaches sound doctrine, but it's only because they won't truly scrutinize what they're preaching or practicing.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779where is Driscoll preaching false doctrine. I’m genuinely curious for your example.
If you watch the video its clear the point Todd is making. Its nothing to do with the doctrine they are teaching, they can be excellent preachers. But the type of sin they commit that disqualifies them then eliminates the decision of restoring them to the role of pastor as a prudent one. Look at the sin Mark committed, he should be sitting under the leadership of others. Non-christians will look at the church and will rightfully laugh and mock when they see we aren't taking sin seriously and we restore these men to be pastors again
While Driscoll’s sermons tend to be something akin to stand-up Christian comedy, I don’t buy the “kind of sin” argument. Driscoll is still a powerful force for introducing many to Christianity.
@@howardgrominger296how much of his sermons have you watched? In the last two months, I have watched around 20 hours worth of his sermons, mostly from the last two years. He tells jokes, but by no means would I say his sermons are stand up comedy. Humor is a small portions of his sermons. He is very convicting and is blatant about sin and denying one’s flesh and Worshiping God. I have performed stand up comedy on an amateur level so that is why that comparison is a meaningful one for me.
Going back to the original commenter and this video, I think the point is that they are not fit to lead due to their behaviors, even if their sermons are righteous. Being a pastor is also about mentoring, caring for, and guiding members of the church. Those behaviors would make one unsuited to complete the full interpersonal role even if you can deliver righteous sermons. Do I agree with not being able to be restored? I don’t. I think if you hold yourself and have others hold you accountable, you can continue being a pastor. I don’t know for sure though. Just my opinion based on my understanding of grace and my personal experience seeing growth in people throughout their lives.
Carl Lentz stated numerous times he isn’t returning to the office of pastor
Well said Todd. More accountability and above reproach. It is hypocritical for the church. I dont like or appreciate certain TV pastors that may publicly repent, but they refuse to step down for any length of time and continue preaching. Im understanding sinning pastors teach false doctrine. I think Paul said this...
A spiritual leader needs to be above reproach. I agree 💯. Disgraceful
I appreciate the comments. Just curious: are we talking about "egregious" sin as disqualifying (what makes a sin reproachable--if that makes sense). Here's where I'm coming from: some pastors don't report monetary gifts for performing weddings/funerals on taxes, they use video clips from movies illegally in sermons (not giving credit or getting permission), fudge on mileage, and some probably gossip. Not trying to be a smart aleck. I guess for me, I see a lot of problems in the pastorate--not just with the big sins and mega church pastor, but across the board.
The sins that would disqualify a person from leadership are usually referencing qualifications for elders and overseers found in Titus 1:5-9 and I Timothy 3.
Many of the things you mention would likely not be above reproach. My question would be what do they do when confronted about these things? If I want to be above reproach, I confess the behavior as soon and repent of it. If I act as if it's not a big deal, then it doesn't seem that I care about being above reproach. We all sin, but how we respond to the sin shows a lot
Sadly, it's all about the money with these TV pastors
I agree. They should not return to their ministry. I have another issue. There are so many pastors who quote Martin Luther. Martin Luther wrote a book near the end of his life called " The Jews and Their lies"
As a matter of fact, Hitler picked up some of Luther's ideas of what we should be doing to Jews and he ran with it. Why then should we be quoting anything that Luther said?
It’s a matter of trust, once broken, it is hard to restore. I see your point about the necessity of strict church discipline for pastors received from the early church teachings. It makes sense in that light to not restore them.
*Larry Burkett's book on "Giving and Tithing" drew me closer to God and helped my spirituality. 2020 was a year I literally lived it. I cashed in my life savings and gave it all away. My total giving amounted to 40,000 dollars. Everyone thought I was delusional. Today, 1 receive 85,000 dollars every two months. I have a property in Calabasas, CA, and travel a lot. God has promoted me more than once and opened doors for me to live beyond my dreams. God kept to his promises to and for me*
There's wonder working power in following Kingdom principles on giving and tithing. Hallelujah!
But then, how do you get all that in that period of time? What is it you do please, mind sharing?
It is the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US and abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus
Big thanks to Ms. Chisty Fiore❤️✨💯May God bless Christy Fiore services,she have changed thousands of lives globally
How can I start this digital market, any guidelines and how can I reach out to her?
I think this Restoration nonsense really took off in the 80's with Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker
Jim Bakker smoothed the way for his comeback by renouncing prosperity preaching. He never seriously addressed the issue of his abnormal personal conduct and people just forgot about that
If God forgave Jimmy Swaggart what right do we have to still keep that against Jimmy...we may not judge....
Am thankful Jesus saved this sinner who is watching this video. And by the grace of God go I....
I do not fool myself to think that I am above the sins of these in this video even after being saved.
Each day is a walk with the Lord and the necessity in putting His desires above mine.
Been saved over 40 years and am still working on it each day with His Spirit.
Thanks for your videos, Mr. Friel!
I absolutely love this channel! Thank you for staying true to the Word and what the bible says. 🙏🏻
100% agree Todd, great video
But, Todd is going beyond scripture. The bible never says a fallen pastor is disqualified for life.
No Scripture says, "A pastor who sins is disqualified FOR LIFE." Various churches are going to land in different places on this. Let's not make up a rule that is not in Scripture.
Of course some sins are so grievous that the fallen pastor must never be restored.
Amen. Todd is making stuff up again.
These guys just move on to a new church and REPEAT. Sickening! 🤮
These sociopaths can't stand being out of the limelight...the money & power are very nice too. They hold these over holding on to God. Grace & mercy are their game & they play people well. They should fade into the gray & let someone else lead.
2 Timothy 3-5 [AVOID THESE PEOPLE]
"Understand that the last days will be dangerous times. 2 People will be selfish and love money. They will be the kind of people who brag and who are proud. They will slander others, and they will be disobedient to their parents. They will be ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, contrary, and critical. They will be without self-control and brutal, and they won’t love what is good. 4 They will be people who are disloyal, reckless, and conceited. They will love pleasure instead of loving God. 5 They will look like they are religious but deny God’s power. Avoid people like this".
They treat being a pastor as......just a job.
@atoll8423 Exactly! These are the ones whose salvation is seriously suspect. Another thing is, when pastors are lax in their devotion to Christ, they make themselves open to all kinds of sins.
@atoll8423 Exactly! These are the ones whose salvation is seriously suspect. Another thing is, when pastors are lax in their devotion to Christ, they make themselves open to all kinds of sins.
Atoll8423. It is just a job for many
0:25 The „great theologian Queen” made my day so hard 😂
And really appreciate phrasing this song with bassline IN-TIME (as PL lutheran i have so many bad experiences with congregation sinning own way and organist playing bad… to not disturb them 😩).
I agree with this and am grateful for faithful preachers and teachers who love the Lord and the church. I followed many of these men and teachings. In regard to my own sin, I have learned that I must follow Christ and not man. A false shepherd can’t “shepherd” if no one is following. A plurality of biblically qualified elders really matters.
Pastors who control the men under and around them with money or power and prestige also control their mouths… The traditional system is set up to fail unless each man walks circumspectly in their own mind and heart…
Right as usual Todd.
But, he isn't. Todd is going beyond scripture. The bible never says a fallen pastor is disqualified for life.
@@RivendellFellowship
Look at it carefully with a proper hermeneutic. Either qualified or disqualified. If you’re not beyond reproach which means leading up to (since you’re born again) and during your service then you’re disqualified. Period. You can’t then become beyond reproach again. Just like you can’t be born again- again.
You’ll always have a record of reproach. And you’ll never be beyond it. You can still repent and trust Christ and be saved but you’ll always have a record of reproach. And that disqualifies you to shepherd God’s flock. Stop already.
Your mindset is complicit in the false teaching problem warned about in every NT book except Philemon. Learn to properly and precisely handle God’s Word.
@jamesmccaughey7754 but you are reading into the reproach is forever. The Scriptures don't say that. No, I am not into a mindset of false teaching. You are the one adding to the scriptures.
@@RivendellFellowship
Again you must be beyond reproach before you take office. You can’t fall into reproach and say you’re beyond reproach again after falling into reproach. That is foolish biblically. Do you understand implicit vs explicit? No you clearly do not.
Stop looking for a way to embrace sin. That is the practice of sin by definition and places you in reproach. Repent.
Your
@jamesmccaughey7754 wrong, you are beyond reproach when you are restored before taking office.
Great video!! Very timely!!
Also, if judgement begins in the church, wouldnt that imply starting with the pastor?
Enjoy listening to Pastor Mark Driscoll. I’ve attended Trinity Church and haven’t once felt bullied, intimidated, insulted. Remember, there are 2 sides to every story (I’m talking to the Mars Hill conspirators). Also, there is no one who is righteous: No, not one. We are all sinners. Instead of cherry picking certain pastors, and mega churches (which Trinity is not), focus on the real mega religions, like the Catholic priests who have been raping and molesting kids for decades, and only get reassigned to a different diocese to keep doing the same thing. Is Driscoll perfect, no, but none of us are, and until I see him do wrong, and do nothing about it, I’ll keep enjoying his preaching and leading people to Christ.
Restoration… to the Body
NOT the ministry 😕
Give greater thought to conscience and consequences -Grieving the lord that redeems me. Dragging his sacred name into the mud. Looking at Jesus in the face giving account for my actions.
As a preacher's kid I say absolutely they cannot be restored! It's bad enough that a preacher falls but even worse sinful board doorknobs restore the man.
MR. MR MR MR MR MR FRIEL 😂😂
Agreed.
My wife was ask to leave her church after being a member for over 28 years bc she spoke out against a scandal in the treasury. I give up completely way before when the jimmy swaggart scandal came out.💩
We have lost any hope of having Pastor/Shepherds who are actually servants! I am so tired of preacher pop stars who have been promoted because they “fill the seats “! How Jesus must weep over His bride! It is so hard to find a good church 😢
They are being intellectually dishonest! Make it make REAL sense…..if you robbed a bank, stole money from even petty cash you are never allowed to be president, treasurer, teller or any such thing at said bank nevaah😩
I agree to a degree. Certian things such as abuse of power and adultary are automatic disqualifications, but this doesn't mean they can't be restored years down the road through repentance.
Or else we all would have disqualified Peter immediately and we wouldn't be talking about this today.
Does this happen because pastors don’t meet the biblical qualifications in the first place? Does the modern church truly understand and practice the biblical qualifications for pastors? A seminary degree alone does not qualify someone to be a pastor.
Restoration to fellowship... allowed back into the family, only.
Yes they can! The gifts and calling of God are given without repentance!!!! Paul said you who are spiritual among you, RESTORE such a one who has fallen!!!
To the faith...not necessarily to a former position.
You are correct biblically. Sadly, there are many Christians who don’t want to follow the teachings of the New Testament. The debacle at Gateway shows so many defend him even knowing the circumstance . Restoration to fellowship is separate from restoration to ministry . @@LivingFaithFreeLutheran
Robert Morris is a Dis Grace
Yes thank you for this video... I was in a dilemma how to handle such a circumstance now i have greater clarity.... Ya people are taking the office of pastorship or eldership too lightly.. especially when it comes to Holiness and purity and obedience to The Word.
Todd is going beyond scripture. The bible never says a fallen pastor is disqualified for life.
I agree that they can get forgiveness but they cannot be in leadership.😅😢
And Peter being restored after denying the Lord? That verse doesn’t count?
Did he deny him after the church was created or before?
@@cosmictreason2242 it’s relevant to the discussion?
What about when Paul called out Peter? Peter still went on to do great things and be a pastor.
Was thinking the same thing. Pastors are still human and will make mistakes.
Every single person in the bible other than Jesus made mistakes on their service and walk with God.
That of course doesn’t mean there isn’t consequences for our actions.
There’s a difference between a momentary lapse on judgment and habitual, perpetual sinful, unchristlike or immoral behavior as a lifestyle.
@@valeriegoldstein3483 I guess the contrasts in the first two Kings of Israel would be a good example. One had a heart from himself and one for God. King David after committing adultery and murder being punished by the taking of their baby was sorry and wept before God. King Saul after being caught not following Gods commandment to wipe out all the Amalekites went to worship God. God got rid of one but not the other. One was only doing it for show and didn't have a personal relationship with God, the other knew God and deeply loved him.
It was a difference of opinion between apostles and it was worked out with Paul's facing it and Peter's agreement. Peter had not abused a person in his flock, he had not molested a child or a woman, he had not stolen church donations or committed fraud of any kind. He had not had an adulterous affair outside of his marriage. Get the point?
I really appreciated how succinctly you restated that quote from Clement.
Follow the money 💰. Hey pastor, you bring in the people and the money. Repeat and continue on.
Amen and totally agree...
Simultaneously I have a severe question,
What do you do with the Apostle Peter?
He flat out denied Christ three times, and was restored by Christ Himself to the point that he was THE leader of the church until James and Paul.
He later led people into hypocrisy (even Barnabas) and had to be called out by Paul, but He still died an Apostle.
How does that jive with this? I'm not saying he's wrong, but this is something which needs to be taken into account.
Peter was not the leader of the Church. He was an apostle and an evangelist but people misinterpreted the verse where Jesus calls him a rock and says on this rock I will build my church. In the original language Jesus says this after Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ. In the original language what Jesus actually calls Peter is a stone, indicating a small rock and when referring to the rock on which He will build His church the term in the original language was for a huge massive boulder. Jesus was saying that the rock on which He will build His church was what Peter professed, Christ. Throughout the New Testament we see Jesus referred to as the rock, the stone, the cornerstone etc. Jesus was referring to the statement Peter made and not to Peter.
@@mrtoadslove I'm actually not referring to that, but immediately after the ascension, it's Peter who takes up his old role as spokesman and brings up that they need another Apostle.
It's Peter who preaches at Pentecost.
It's Peter who speaks for the apostolic band in front of the Sanhedrin after being jailed twice and threatened with execution.
It's Peter who brings up the need for Deacons
It's Peter who is the first (or maybe that was Phillip the Evangelist) to spread the gospel to the gentiles (specifically God-fearers: Cornelius)
It was Peter who backed up James at the Jerusalem Council.
It was Peter who wrote 2 books of the NT by name and probably one other by proxy (the Gospel of Mark)
Among others, though he begins to take a back seat in Acts once Paul shows up.
He was restored to ministry, to office.
AND HOW.
So, what is the difference between Peter and these disgraced pastors?
I'm not saying they should be restored to office.
I'm not saying they're not disqualified.
But what is the difference between Peter and these?
@@Destroyer83 I could give you an answer that would be nothing more than my own understanding of it. I don’t think that would be wise on my part because regarding what you said in your response I have only my own wisdom which is weak at best. Whenever I am trying to understand something like this I pray about it, seek an answer in scripture, ask my Pastor, or search through answers given by people who have proven themselves faithful to His Word. If you still are curious consider writing to someone who is trustworthy in ministry and ask them. Love in Christ,
@@Destroyer83 meant to apologize for misunderstanding the question. I guess I have just had so many people tell me that Peter was the head of the church, Peter was the first Pope, etc.
@@mrtoadslove totally forgiven, I understand that I should have probably used the word "spokesman", as "leader" implies headship which Rome applies to Peter.
I will have to disagree with adding Mark Driscoll. He had no agrievous sin. Just characteristics he needed to work on.
I agree, I haven’t heard anyone say what Driscoll has done to disqualify him.
I haven’t seen anything to disqualify him and he seems to be faithfully preaching to this day.
He repeatedly threatened his elder board when confronted with taking money to promote his book. He used church funds for this. He was abusive and said that he would "destroy" some of them. He also referred to women as " homes for penis's." Vulgarity and spiritual abuse absolutely disqualifies someone from the office of pastor.
Agreed. I don’t know how being mean is the same as committing adultery or other grotesque sins like being a child predator
What pastoral trait does he exhibit? There is a difference between someone who gets behind the pulpit and someone who is a pastor. His teachings are very shallow, and he needs to undergo church discipline for his actions at Mars Hill.
Thank you for this podcast.
Malpractice can seriously hurt people. Removal is an absolute necessity to avoid future gross negligence.