'Players Irons' Vs 'Game Improvement Irons' - Blows my mind!
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2024
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Very interesting comparison. I value to the comparison of 7 irons between different club types, however, your point at about the 14 minute mark about the distance differences between the AP1 and your Mizunos and the differences in spin numbers bring a huge question to my mind as an"average golfer". When choosing an approach shot on the course for a par three of 155 yards (your 7 iron with the Mizuno), you will not choose the 7 iron with the AP1 because you will be 20 yards past the hole. The real comparison that I would LOVE to see the numbers on is your choice of iron with the Titlest for 155 yards. I would wager you would choose a 8 iron or perhaps even a 9 iron. My point is, I would love to see the numbers compared as you have here between these two clubs, but compare the irons for a fixed distance....ie compare your Mizuno at a 7 iron vs the AP1 at the 8 or even 9 iron as this is what you would hit at 155 yards for each club. I am a real novice at this, but I would wager the spin numbers are going to be a lot closer. BTW...I wish I was as "average" as you. You seem to strike them very well and a nice grooved, easy swing
kevin b Great point there mate... what spin numbers the Ap1 generates to the 155 yard carry with a 9-iron... I think you are absolutely right, there is a trick missed by everyone on that. 👍
Your spot on, I was thinking the same.
I'd prefer to see a meaningful review but playing into a green so that distance will decide the club used and not a number n the sole.
Also its not only spin numbers to hold the green its also peak height and decent angle that effects whether you hold green or not.
Robert Allan the problem of course in fitting sets there is normally only a 6 or 7 iron . To do the test that way based on distance, Andy will need a full set somehow.
He was comparing the new AP1 to his current full set so he must have had a club in his current set to compare it with.
Good point. Since he has the full Mizuno set, the appropriate comparison would be the Titleist seven iron (which hopefully he still has) vs the mizuno 5/6 iron...(since there was about 20 yards difference in this video using the same 7 iron.) Anyway, really enjoy the videos.
Great video! I’m 15 handicapper and the Mp5 is the best iron I’ve ever hit, and doubt they will leave my bag
Well for what it's worth here's my personal take. I am 60 years old and started playing golf just over 3 years ago. I play more 9 hole rounds than 18 but am happy doing either. Best 9 hole score is 38 and best 18 hole score 83 on slope rated courses of 120 and 126 respectively (average scores are in the region of 42 / 86). I have played with Ping G25, Taylormade Rocketbladez tours and Callaway CF16's with recoil shafts. Recently I bought a set of Titleist 716MB's just because I didn't want to play my whole life without ever owning a set of true blades. Remember I'm a relatively new golfer (without a handicap) going to blades after 3 years of game improving irons. I can tell you categorically that the blades are by far the best clubs I have ever hit. Remember the middle is still the middle of any club no matter what the type. With the MB's I can shape the ball and have lost no distance from PW up to 7 iron. From 6 to 4 iron I'm maybe 10m shorter than with the GI irons. They look great at address and have a similar ball flight to the CF16's. Trackman puts my 7 iron at 150+ (metres) average. Granted I practice daily (70-100 balls) and play at least 3 times per month but if you are a relatively decent ball striker I would say give the blades a go. For those shots where you really nail it it's worth the odd skunker......
30 years ago I went to a blade Mizuno MS3, my first year of playing/trying these clubs I lost 10-15 yards, almost got rid of them. The second year I got my distance back and accuracy and by the end of the 2nd year added distance. Blades take time to get accustomed to, and you know when you have/haven't hit the sweet spot. I'm only 58 play to a 5.5 use Game Improvement irons, just purchased Mizuno 900 hotmetal, looking forward to the snow melting.
bullseye! like a manual transmission, forged clubs may seem a little foreign at first, but in the end they might just be the ticket and challenge that markedly improves the golf experience...
Wow! What a great video! You really have made me think about the MP-25/5s combo I play....your right when you say us avg golfers can't tell between 1000 to 1500 rpms of backspin. Your also right when you said you rather hit a 7 iron than your 5 iron into a tight green. This is probably one of the best video's I've ever seen and I myself am a certified professional golf teacher and you have really made me open my eyes and maybe I am playing the wrong kind of irons. Thank you so much for doing this video and making all of us look at "game improvement irons" different and help us open our eyes and start thinking about making the game more enjoyable. You really have open my eyes and again I want to personally thank you for doing this video.
Thank you,
Chris
I've been playing mp53 for the last 7yrs. Just ordered G400 irons. I've lost distance over the years and I'm tired of having to hit long irons into everything. Why fight technology? Great video.
so true
Great video, I totally agree with you, I’ve lost 30 yrds in distance over the last five yrs due to age and illness and am planning on getting the longest hitting irons I can find that I like.
Max distance is less important than consistency. You got a 15 yard spread on the AP1 vs 9 yards with the MP5. Plus more spin also makes shots more accurate especially for approach shots where you want the ball to stop faster.
Of course, you can also modify your game to suit the clubs you choose. I'd choose the blade because I like how it feels and looks in addition to the consistency, even if I have a HC that is more "average" than yours. :)
Gotta be one of the best reviews for average golfers that I've watched😀brilliant and honest,drop the ego people,your not Rory,so use the help that's available
Sharon wooster and that’s gotta be one of the best comments I’ve had! Means a lot so thank you
Another great vid andy. As for the spin numbers you are worried about. I see this on almost every vid about GI irons. This 7 iron is going as far as my own 5 iron ECT. But THAT is then the iron you should be comparing it to. So your 7 iron on this vid was going 155y spinning at 5582. What you (and everybody else for that matter) should do then is try the titleist 9 iron which from the numbers there should give you about the same 155 yardage. And see what spin numbers you get from their.
This is something I have always thought was so obvious but is so overlooked by pros when reviewing irons. They come out with sniggering comments like yeah it goes as far as my 5 iron but that ball is not gonna stop at the other end! I always think well show me the spin numbers for your 5 iron then and tell me that's going to stop when it has almost the same spin numbers but coming 4/5 yards lower!
More testing on its way!
Wonderful comment!
Excellent video, thanks. I've played with MP-57s for a long time. My pro had suggested that JPX900 would suit me better. I was dismissive (and sniffy) as I thought yeah they go further because the loft is stronger. However when I tried them, yes they do go about 10 yards further, but I can hit a 6 iron reliably now, which I couldn't with my old clubs. So interesting to see in this video the flight angle comparison. I am very happy with my new JPG900 forged clubs - they look fine, go one club further, and generally are easier to hit. The key point, as was made, is that some of the new game improvement clubs now look quite elegant.
Play what you like and play your best golf with. I’d swing my shoe if it would lower my scores.
Hahahaha funny😂
I’m fairly new to golf. I play taylormade m2 irons(7i is 29 degrees). The only major drawback I have found with this type of iron design is the limited shot shaping ability? It’s difficult to keep the ball flight low and effective draws and fades require somewhat extreme measures.
Great vid Andy! I have heard low spin numbers till I'm sick of it. NO ONE, none of the big channels on RUclips, are doing specific videos to see how these, of any brand, low spin irons really react to landing on a real golf green. YOU could be the first to do a series of tests and videos to actually see what REALLY happens with these types of irons! Find a hole and hit them to it, measure the results. Dry ball data is great and needed but will never be as vital as actual play testing. You're on a quest to truly see how these types of clubs perform and see if they are right for you, please take us along for the journey too. The community NEEDS this type of data! You are us and we are you and we want new clubs too, help all of us make better buying decisions. And end this crap once and for all! LOL
Crossfield does a real situation test with most clubs he reviews , Great video Andy thanks for the content
Yes, but he doesn't especially focus on check up or run out. That is what I'm specifically looking for. I believe it would by great information to have for these kinds of irons.
He did some videos specifically where he compares the check with 7 irons from X yards (the result was you need a massive change in spin numbers to have more than 4 or 5 yards of difference, which with our typical handicapped golfers accuracy means that.... well there's not a big deal of difference between low spinning and higher spinning.) Obviously having established that, he doesn't really spend 5 minutes on the topic in each video review...
HI bud, yes, I've seen those. But would it be helpful to you to see more real test information on stopping ability from an average golfer? LOL
The point is the average handicap golfer doesn't really have a lot of stopping power on firm greens, because the spin numbers aren't there because the strike quality and speed isn't there. Most handicap golfers are going to score better playing short of the pin and running up or learning to do a high fade that shaves 5 yards off off their stock distance to catch tucked pins.
People buying GIs are buying for help with strike and launch, and slower swing speeds getting better distance plus accuracy (you are always going to be more accurate playing a 9 iron length club than an 8 or 7 length club). The only way to really get more stopping power is to get strike honed in, and if you have strike honed in, you really don't need GIs anyway so now you're on blades or more compact higher spinning clubs which makes it a moot point.
Andy, I got fitted for Jpx 921 forged but the 921 hot metal were so easy to hit ,maybe I choose the wrong ones but the forged are so nice ,thanks
I feel most players can get help from the current set of 'game improvement irons'! I play off a +2 handicap and I just got fitted for the ping g 400 irons...and they feel great and perform even better. And yes they DO stop on the greens. Due to the stronger lofts I am now hitting my 5 iron around 230 yards (with great height) which has meant that I don't need a 4 iron anymore...which has also meant being able to add another wedge in my bag. Since the vast majority of my approach shots are within 120 yards this is a fantastic addition to my bag. Sure the g 400 irons don't look as nice as my previous blades (though they still look nice) but I don't play golf to look good...i play to shot the lowest score! :)
Craig McGuire did you try i200, nice looking and forgiving?
Hi..yes I did try the i200 and they were great too. I was actually after a certain higher ball flight and the g 400 fit the bill perfectly. In fact the new Titleist AP3 also fit this bill and they actually look better in my opinion that the pings in terms of top-line etc. but I didn't have a chance to try these properly with different shafts etc so I went with what I was fitted for. The main point I was making is that that are many different iron options available now and low markers shouldn't be bias towards blades etc without trying ALL options first. If they try all the different clubs and still love the players irons good for them I say :)
Craig McGuire hits the ap3's on Sunday very nice think it will be very popular
without doubt
Interesting comments from someone at your level, thxs for the feedback
Great video. I have gone for a set in the middle. Srixon Z765. Best of both worlds. I can not tell you my spin number but these clubs stop a lot quicker than my previous set of clubs and it makes a huge difference.
Yes good choice, keep enjoying
Angle of decent plays a big role. What you lose in spin, you make up with angle of decent. Looks like you have similar numbers and much different yardages. This is where the technology really blows my mind. I went from Cleveland 588 forged CB’s to the MP 20 MMC’s. Three degrees stronger on loft but still lovely to look at and no change in turf interaction. The way I look at it, you either add wedges on one end or hybrids and fairways on the other. Just play with what makes you the happiest. Love your content! Keep up the good work!
for an average golfer your prity good mate.above average.
Andy, great video and thanks for the great tip.
Your thinking makes a very, very, good point!!!! You are absolutly right...Thank´s
Good test; the biggest question for me was not about distance or numbers, but feel.. was there a big noticable difference? when I´ve used game improvement irons in the past it often felt like hitting the ball with a shovel, in that it launched well enough, but I couldn´t tell any difference between a purely struck shot and a bad one until the ball reacted. At least with blades you can tell pretty much exactly where on the face you struck the ball. I hired some M2s in Portugal this summer to play there and while they were nice clubs and launched well, I had a lot of trouble trying to work out what club I needed for the distance.
Yes it is the biggest compromise, when they bring out a forged club with the forgiveness of a GI they have cracked it!
i bought some blades this summer and was playing with muscle cavity irons before...all i can say its wow!!! blades feel like butter....but when you miss your shot it hurt pretty bad my hand....i have scored my best season in life with 89-87-87-83!!! with blades!!!!...ill finished this season with thoses and il go changed my shafts in my Mc irons during this winter and probably tried them back next season and see if i could take the help on the longer irons with the speed pockets (taylormade tour preffered 2014)
Fantastic season well done!
I agree with a lot of your comments. When the reviewers moan about low spin and stopping distances on the strong loft irons, I always want to suggest to them that maybe a high spinning 6 iron with a shallow angle of decent might not stop quicker than a low spinning 7 iron with a much steeper angle of decent. I never hear this possibility discussed.
I think thats very logical to me Stephen, I think the problem is people go along with the latest 'buzz words', everyone criticising strong lofted clubs regards spin without having even tried them.
Worth noting that high spin causes the ball to spin up, compensating for a lower launch angle such that peak height will be similar. Furthermore, a penetrating ball flight that spins up results in a steeper decent angle than a lower spinning shot with the same peak height.
Would you please do a distance to distance comparison! 160 yard shot mizuno 7 compared to ap1 9 and how the numbers spin, and shot consistency match up.
yes
I really enjoyed your video. First, I do appreciate your swing- back slow, stop short of parallel, and acceleration at the bottom. Really nice.
I have been playing Callaway Steelhead pros this summer, and while they don't spin quite as much as my previous irons, I am stopping longer and longer shots on the green.
Try the Steelhead Pro...
Thank you, my swing is variable! I have tried the Steelhead Pros and like them, I dont subscribe to the holy grail of spin and I am sure they are stopping on the greens for you just fine, no doubt, enjoy them and thxs for commenting
Great realistic and educational video for me as a beginner.
Very well stated. About time one of the internet reviewer's acknowledge launch and not loft is what is important for the average golfer! Loved the video!!
Thxs Mike
I can stop my callaway stealhead pretty good, the only time I've had a problem stopping them was in summertime on hard greens but I was having problem stopping my MD 3 wedges 48 52 56° at them times to!
Would love to see you do the same test but match the lofts as close as you can then see the results. Ive just started and have a set of Zing 2s that have by today's standards very weak lofts! eg. my 5iron is about the same as my mates m2 7 iron!
Really good stuff Andy. Gets me thinking as well. Gets me thinking as well.
mind blowing tbh
Hi Andy excellent subject & video. I play Benross HTX and although I'm well below average compared to you I haven't found any spin issues with approach shots even if I play different balls (pro v1, ad333 or dx2) they all manage to stop reasonably quickly.
I've looked for a club I can hit consistently well and my HTX tick the box. At my level the problem is my swing and not the club.
Thanks
Yeah the spin issue is not for most players in my opinion, I am like you my swing is the problem!
Excellent video Andy! I would like to see a comparison between clubs that travel the same distance, such as AP1 8 iron vs. your MP5 7. One would surmise that the AP1 8 iron may be more similar in spin and have much greater angle of descent and height, all of which may result in greater real world accuracy than an MP5 7 iron.
FWIW - I have been playing the Adams XTD Cross Cavity Irons since their introduction several years ago. I chose them to replace my Ping S57 blades because their small head size, minimal offset and incredible distance - 1 ½ clubs longer. My accuracy increased because I was hitting a PW rather than a 9I or in some cases a soft 8I with the Pings. They are just as long when I compare them on the range to the new GI offerings from Ping, Taylor Made, and Callaway, some of those with stronger lofts. My club doesn't have the AP1's yet. I'm anxious to compare.
I will be doing the on course testing exactly as you suggest
Hi Andy , really interested to know what happened to the srixons mate and why you went off them ?
Great video... I wondered what kind of distance you would get with your pitching wedge in pings. How much of a gap youd need to fill with wedges...also would you use game improvement wedges... really enjoyed video... nice swing by the way
Great video Andy the only thing missing from the numbers which would help is peak height and descent angle if the ball is travelling longer but descending at a steeper angle the low spin isn't as much of a problem. Keep up the good work.
Those numbers are in columns 9 and 10 Robert, hope this helps
Hi Andy, great vlog, when choosing my irons last winter I went for a fitting with my mind set on ping i200. But during the fitting I tried the M2 and mizuno hot metal irons. The difference in distances was 12-15 yards. As a player who doesn't hit a long ball playing off 7 I chose the mizuno hot metals and the ball flight in windy conditions is superb. #gameimproversalltheway
Its a real eye opener!
We play heavy/wet Bermuda rough here in Florida. My smaller-headed Titielist T-MB seem to do better from the rough than my Ping G400s.
What a great video and what a great point. I to know I'm not that dialed in to know if I'm going to get it 5 or 8 feet close to the PIN. This was a real eye-opener of a video for me I to play the MP-5s with the MP-25s and am rethinking what goes into my bag for 2018. Thinking about giving the 900 hot metal a try. That's not too big it's not too fat on top and has barely any offset everything I'm looking for just like the MP-5s but a lot easier to hit! We'll have to see what this teacher is going to do. Let me know what you think....maybe the MP-18 MMC....instead of the 900 hots? That might be the way to go...great technology not oversized at all and thinner than the 900 hot metal. I'll keep you informed if you keep me informed LOL have a good one buddy.
Chris
Affordable Golf Lessons MN.
you make a powerful argument for at least considering a higher tech iron and one which we'll all get to. still, having learned with forged so long ago, it's more about turf--when it's good--i want a nice divot taker, and when the course is rough and thin--i'll take a scraper....
Excellent video and very convincing argument on why we should use GI irons. As average golfers, we don’t hit greens like the pros and spin isnt as important. Youve changed my mind!
Agreed
hey Andy, you might want to take a look at the wilson C200, would like to see a vid on those
will try to get hold of
The spin might have been greater with the Mp's but to get the same distance as the Titleist you would have, as you said, used perhaps an mp 4/5 iron, & I'm sure the spin from those irons would have been less. If folk accepted that the most important thing about playing golf was to shoot as low a score as you possibly can, ( Ask any Pro), then an iron that goes as long as these, "Game Improvement" is a must for most part time golfers.
Agreed
Awesome review, Thx for being very honest and very inspiring.....Thx and keep the great work !!!!!
Are the lofts the same on both clubs?
I am absolutely with you on this, for most club golfers distance is the no. 1 The pro at my golf club has just switched to game improvement irons. Not just for distance but also accuracy, something you could also have looked at in your comparison.
I think a lot of better players will be looking at he GI range in the future Tiggy
Biggest factor for me is the size of the head. I was playing Mizuno JPX 900 Hot Metals at the beginning of the year, but began to struggle with them from the rough because of the size of the head. I sampled some Mizuno MP68s for the middle half of the season and WOW what a difference. I had zero issues from the rough and what I found was a greatly improved strike -- contrary to expected results when moving from a game improvement iron to a more traditional muscle back. Angle of Attack, Smash, club head speed, forward shaft lean and yes, spin, all greatly improved with the 68s, so I traded in my Hot Metals for MP18s and have not regretted the decision at all. I'm a 15 handicap (US) and comparing dozens of rounds with the Hot Metals to dozens of rounds with the 68s and 18s, I can confirm that I suffered absolutely no loss in scoring ability. It is definitely like playing a different game though...my skill has been increasing exponentially as a result of the level of feedback I'm getting. I always understood conceptually what I was doing wrong when I hit a bad shot, but I wasn't improving because there was no physical connection between the shot and my understanding of the shot. The odd thing is...for me...I'm finding the muscle backs...less forgiving clubs...are the true game improvement irons!
Steven Ziegler sounds like you are onto a winner Steven, keep playing well my friend
I play with jpx 900 hotmetals as well as was mulling this same concept over. Ill have to try some mb irons
After having watched many videos on the new jacked up lofts and reading many articles on how "great" these new irons are for swings that are slowing down, my conclusion is very much the same as yours. I've been playing Mizuno T-Zoid Pros for over 15 years. I've taken several new irons out for test drives and found them to be unpredictable distance wise. They also do not provide the feedback on every shot and if there is any it's very much muted compared to my T-Z's. I'm just fine being 20 yards shorter. My contention is that blades are the true game improvement clubs. They teach you to hit it pure.
Great video, really enjoyed the explanations and your views on the numbers.
Thxs Ade
Great video! I do feel like most golfers bite off more than they can chew when choosing irons. My problem is with the more forgiving game improvement irons maybe a little much if your 15 hdcp or less. The dispersion of distance was around 20 yards and rolled out an extra 10 ft on avg. That is a 60-70 ft window when some of my greens aren't even 60ft deep. I believe the moderate game improvement like the AP3 would better suit him. The AP3 would find it self in the middle with better dispersion of distance and spin.
Yes you could be right
What’s your spin on your 6 iron? I hear what you’re saying on launch angle BUT the friction to create backspin will be cause by the loft. So if you were hitting an 8/9 iron with the AP1s would the spin numbers match the 7 in the players clubs? If they did you’d also be getting added consistency of hitting a shorter club with the game improvement irons
Fantastic vlog I am definitely going to be looking at the AP 1 thanks to this vlog
Cheers
Let me know how you get on
Hey Andy, you might find a lower spin number if you put the "c"taper shaft in the AP1 as this shaft is a low spin shaft. Good review as always mate🖒
Yes thats also a good point
With a pitching wedge loft around 43.5 don’t you find that it gives you a difficult gap between that and your gap wedge? I have an old set of r9 tour pros which feel damn close to hitting a blade, they feel great on good days but on bad days theyre tough. Looking at the m2 2.0’s. About 15 handicapper. Great video!
im a bit like you .at the moment . i game jpx 800 and feel that i need some more help . but what to pick so many out there.i dont know what to pick .
Adey Yemm hopefully watch some of the most recent reviews to help you and then try them for yourself
Hi Andy, just a bit puzzled. In this video you get a much better smash factor (ball speed/ club speed) with the AP1 - it's up at 1.43 average ignoring the off-centre hits. In fact the results for the Mizuno 7 iron are pretty low at 1.33 for a centre strike. In your part 2 video, the Mizuno 5 iron is about 1.41 average, which is where you expect it to be. Were you not catching the 7 iron too well?
I will take a look Clem, I dont remember the 7 iron numbers being too different than my norm tbh
Thanks for putting out this fantastic video, this is one of the very few objective comparisons between the 2 different types of irons in the market; the data was very insightful and the conclusions very helpful
The thing about spin and stopping distance is that the spin causes a higher ball flight and steeper landing angle. It's not the spin on the ball that stops the ball, it's the landing angle. Also, the higher spinning fades were much shorter and the stopping distance would be shorter there too.
You're definitely on to something here Andy and as I've indicated before I'm in the same bracket as yourself. An 8 handicap with a "player" type iron looking in on the AP1 and other "improver" irons and thinking am I missing something here 🤔. As other comments have suggested I'd really like to see some on course head to heads to see how spin and overall differences in distance are in the wild rather than just on simulators. Great work buddy, enjoy your holiday 👍.
I would like you to try them and give me your opinions Gordon. I will be doing some on course testing very soon.
Hope your getting better weather than here in Ireland Andy. How about testing your current irons against the cobra one length irons? Sounds like you will be making a switch soon !
is 26 degrees better than Ireland?
Teeuplo Golf Channel Just slightly!
great video and comparison, I think you made a really good point about stopping power and unless your a pro non of us are really that good to be that accurate. plus you can compensate for that just land it short of the flag.never really realized the spin rates made very little difference except for overall distance.
Agreed
This was an awesome help as I am struggling to make up my mind on my next set of irons
Neil Amalfitano that comment makes the video worth doing! I appreciate it
just a note the ap1 has a g wedge at 48 deg so realisticly you could make a set 5-pw& gw 52 56 &60 instead of 4-pw and 3 wedges like a "normal set of wedges"
You would need more clubs at the bottom end definately
I am a 15 handicapper and still happy with my mint condition 1994 big bertha irons. I've hit a few of the latest irons such as the XR, And steelhead callaway irons. Don't seem to feel as forgiving or smooth as my old berthas. Just don't feel the need to continually update with what the golf manufacturers feed us. Unless I get down to single figures I don't think changing irons will make a difference.
Amazing video, Andy. 👍🏌️🏌️ Very honest and I agree 💯 with everything you say. Brilliant. I hope this becomes one of your most viewed videos, mate. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
I really enjoyed making it tbh Graham so thxs
Graham Arnott 0
Great video Andy, personally for me it’s all about finding a club that I like to look at and that helps give me the best game I can considering my own limitations of experience. The new Titleist AP1 is something I would be seriously considering. For me it’s all about keep no the ball in play as much as possible. So forgiveness and a touch of distance combined is perfect for me.
I agree with you , it's more about the extra accuracy with going two clubs down for the same distance.
But 2 clubs more distance sounds much better to the punter, and so to the manufacturers, than two clubs better accuracy.
Also, the AP1s will have a higher launch angle, and so drop angle, which will also help stopping on the green, mitigating the lower spin.
Great review Andy I have got jpx 850 s at the moment and was thinking about upgrading possibly to blades but would now definitely be looking at the new game improvement irons thanks for a great review,have a good holiday and when is the new weakly or monthly show going to be made missing it pal
JPX850s a nice club Richard, prob do something during the Winter months
Thanks, great info lot to think about when getting new clubs
Great vid Andy. I’m at a similar crossroads. I’m a 10 handicap and play the Mizuno MP-25s. I’m very interested in the AP3 and the P790 irons. I’m looking for more distance in a player’s package, because I like less offset, not because I’m a playah. Have you considered testing the AP3s against the P790s? I would be curious of the outcome.
Michael Totten I too would like that comparison
I play the MP25s as well love the feel I’m 15HC Tried the MP18SC it was a wow for me a lot longer nice feel.....give them a go.....
MP18Sc very nice indeed
Yes mate on its way
It would be an interesting on course test to take a bag of balls to a 175 yard distance from a green and hit both the AP1 7 iron and MP5 6 or 5 iron (whatever you need for that distance)
and see which club puts more balls closer to the hole.
I will be doing this in Part 2 Freddy
Totally agree with you. If I could hit a 7 iron that is lofted like a 6 iron but with a 7 iron length shaft, I’ll take it. I’ve played blades and now I game SGI irons. I love not worrying about hitting it on the screws. There’s other things to worry about when on a golf course.
718 ap1's got them last friday,Andy your review is bang on they are the best irons i have played.ive played pings andcallaways,now its titleist for me.
Enjoy mate!
I love my P790S.They are low spin but the go miles in the air so they stop great.
No one ever said golf was supposed to be easy. Stick with the blades and your ball striking will continue to be as good as it is. Which is way above average, by the way. Also, when you hit a 190 yard 6 iron with a blade, you did it, not the high tech club. As a side note, when your irons get delofted the way so many are today, you have to buy 3 or 4 wedges to fill in a set. You still need clubs that go from 130 to 90 yards. The only club that distance matters is the driver. All others need to go the same distance every time. Like your videos. You and Patrick Reed have me thinking about Ping drivers now.
Watching this before the game improvement review of 2017. Wanting your feelings and ideas. I play game improvement but I feel like I'm a more focused and confident player when I'm swinging a blade.
Playing well with a blade is no better feeling, just depends how often you play well!
It's great to point out the difference of 8 yards roll out vs. 5 when comparing 7i vs 7i. Thing is, the AP1 7i is going as far as a 5 or 6 iron with the other set. I bet the spin numbers would get even more favorable/comparable if you compare a 6i mizuno vs a 7 iron AP1. Great video and very helpful!
Your right and I hope to find this out in Part 2
Could you do a review on the new Cleveland HB irons? Ugly, large, but apparently easiest irons to hit in golf. Realise they wouldn't suit a single figure handicapper but interested to see your viewpoint.
Trying to get hold of a set
Excellent video. On course testing is required to confirm the dry ball data. Keep up the good work.
Will do
Really nice job with your analysis. Thought it was fair, comprehensive, and informative. Will most likely influence my next set of irons.
Thanks Mike appreciate those comments
Im going to play Qschool soon. Im able to hit blades...been using it for years. Shane Lowry's win in Open proof A LOT! He doesnt hit blades....neither does many tour pro's anymore. Im 52.....(I can play this game).......but why the effort to hit it close with 3-9 irons.......My question. Will cavity irons not give me that little extra allround game!!!??
Brilliant review Andy 👏. And some serious food for thought😳. Thank you. 👍
thcs
Personal Story.....played cavities, then player cavities, Super GI, and now blades.....GI hurt my game when it came to hitting it out of multiple lies. Shaping and ability to hit shots was hurt also....Oddly with a pure strike the GI would fly over greens especially off the fairway and tee, par 3's under 200 were a nightmare. Blade irons helped me eliminate one side of the golf course, also helped me adjust trajectory as needed. Never going GI ever again. Silly experiment, but I learned alot. For reference, in order Titleist, Pings, Cobra, Mizzies.
Andy, you have touched on some very interesting things here.
I have realized I am a really high spin player even with a heavy low spin shaft (Ctaper)
I play premium balls and JPX900 tour irons.I have just changed balls to a cheaper Titleist DT trusoft
to lower the spin on my iron shots they still pull back on the greens and yet give me more distance as they don`t
spin as much as a premium ball.I`m enjoying this and can only see me enjoying the game more.
It makes me think If I want to play premium balls then I perhaps would have to play some of the modern lofted irons`
This is really interesting and I am going to look at ball types/club types in future
I'd be interested to see a similar comparison using pitching wedges.
Whatever you are more confident / comfortable using as most of it is in the mind . Cheers Gary
Very good point Gary
such a great vid. thanks for this it really helped
I don't understand this focus on 'low spin'. Can you do the same test hitting into a green 175 yds out? (a gaming situation). You would then use the MP5 5 iron V's the AP1 7 iron. The spin is probably higher with the Ap1 with a higher peak height so would stop quicker. Surely this is a better comparison when deciding whether to change clubs or not?
Yes this will be in Part 2 of this testing
Nice vid. Well done!
Best golf club review I've heard
I have pondered on whether to change to the AP1 style iron many times over the years. On a launch monitor the game improver wins every time, on the course it's a totally different story. There are so many times when the game improver club just confuses me. The fliers you get are so frustrating and chipping and pitching is a lottery. I think anyone that buys these from dry fitting is asking for trouble. Try playing a Links course in the summer with those 4 iron spin numbers
this is very true and I am going to do some on course testing from a variety of scenarios
Great point about launch angle and also peak height is better on these new irons. So people choosing to ignore this when criticising them for stronger loft. You wouldn't hit forged 6 iron as high or launch as high as the 7 iron new style improvement irons.
Would be interesting what equivalent AP1 you would need to hit to match the distance on the MP5 7 iron and then compare the spin of that club to what you are getting on the Mizuno. I would guess you would hit a 9 iron just short of the MP5 distance but get the spin rates very similar. With that in mind......does it matter at all?! I empathise with the low spin as I really struggle too. I play Mizubo MP4 and have very similar spin numbers to you but carry my 7 iron a smidge longer and higher. Lack of spin is causing me issues at the top end of the back (excluding driver) rather than the bottom. Low spin can be a great distance gainer but you need launch to maximise it. Hence my M2 driver cranked to 12 degrees. I don't have a mega fast swing speed but carry it 265 with 1800 rpm. My bad shots are when the spin dies and it goes nowhere. There is an idea for another video. At what loft/launch and spin combo do you get maximum carry and maximum distance (two different things).....are "the average golfers" playing too little loft? I would guess they are ;-)
The driver point re the spin/launch is something I am familiar with and I think would be a good video as once again the current message seems to be about chasing low spin on your driver numbers but its not that simple, I like it and will look to do.
I think its an interesting one. With my lofted up driver (10.5 head cranked to 12) I get my best numbers......and I've tested every setting extensively on GC2. Most people play a 10.5 or 9.5 from a pride perspective!! If I play a 10.5 I lose 10 to 20 yards of carry. I physically cannot hit the old SLDR drivers. They were so low spinning that I could consistently hit about 1100 rpm and it just nose dived. With low Spin....launch is key! I think you kind of answered my first point on the iron spin in the second video in this series. Shame you didn't have more AP1's to test rather than just the 7 iron. You made the same point but just in reverse! The reality is, what would you rather have in your hands from 175.....a 7 iron of a 5 iron?! I know which I'd prefer. maybe saying good bye to my MP4 :-(
You should try the ap3 I was playing the ap2 but like you was finding them murder on miss hits . But liked a thinner top line
Very interesting and just curious as to what your handicap is? I like your approach and your sensible way of explaining things.
I play off 8 Jay and thxs
I think it depends on your game. I am 71 and never been a good golfer. As I get older, I need more loft on my clubs and shorter shafts on irons and woods. I need accuracy as much as anything. I would love more distance, but it usually gets me in trouble. Again I don't want to be like the older golfers 30 years ago, where they just push the ball around the course. I want to have some fun. I have a swing somewhat like your. Very low to ground and probably with a closed face at impact.
I don't know why, but My best scores have been with blades. Blades of today are much bigger than they were 25 years ago. I fight a hook, as soon as I go to an offset cavity back,,,,the hooks start. With my Titleist muscle backs,,,no hooks.
Great video and information ,well done ,and have a good holiday, is it by chance a golfing one.?
No golf! banned for a week.....by the wife!
9:13 look at your spin numbers, the first one down at 3600 rpm with a 7 iron~ WITH A DRY BALL OFF OF A MAT ~ you hit that on the course with a couple of blades of grass or some wet conditions and that is dropping to 1000-1500 rpm, basically you're gonna get big flyers and knuckle balls.
I bought a used set of MP4's. The only reason was to force me-self to swing correctly. And for the first couple of weeks the clubs were telling me how not to swing. Then finally after so many painful feedback, I finally figured out how to swing properly. Now all my clubs feel like hitting the wedge, soft and buttery. I could never have figured it out hitting game improvement clubs. Never go back to GI clubs.
Yeah I get this philosophy
You say you don't generally generate really high spin, so I wonder if the gap in numbers would be larger for someone that DOES generate a lot of spin. Would that difference remain the same, get bigger or get smaller? Just curious, if the difference increased to 2000 or even 3000 that would start to equate to ten yards or more of extra stopping distance. That's nearly an extra club. Might cut the difference to only a few hundred and almost negate the difference. Might be worth finding a high spinner player. Great video.
Looking forward to Part 2 on Thursday