My response to Rob Chapman. THE CHAPPENING!
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- I make the argument that Chappers vision for the future of guitar/rock/metal music is correct, because he lists the reasons why rock/metal is boring/dead.
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It was obvious Rob had not watched my video as my core argument was about the pristine modern recording techniques of rock and metal which have more in common with pop and disco than the ethos of rock.
For my full opinion watch these in order:
Modern heavy metal SUCKS! Djent, Progressive & Deathcore DISMANTLED
• Video
Guitar IS dead, and it's your fault. RIP rock, metal and the guitar solo.
• Video
SHOCKING: The underground scene = WORSE than the mainstream!
• The underground music ...
A British rocker's view on Trump, Hillary and Nazi's.
• A British rocker's vie...
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Rob's vid didn't age well ;-) Here is my opinion on why I think guitar is relatively dead vs the old scene: ruclips.net/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/видео.html
Chappers thinks that because a handful of weirdos in satin dresses still speak Latin in church on Sunday, Latin is still a living, vibrant language. He really just doesn't get it. Playing well technically does NOT make you a guitar hero. Selling a million copies doesn't do it either.
Doing something new and vibrant and fresh that shakes people up and makes them rethink an entire genre is what makes someone a guitar hero. Having never had an original idea in his life, Chappy will never understand that.
I love the way you think. Thanks for making these videos.
Thanks man.
CIRCLE OF TONE. I've been experiencing what you mentioned in your video. I just wanted to be a guitarist playing blues and rock and tried to have a lucrative career for like 8 years and Blues and rock is dead. I had to learn how to shoot videos, edit, record and learn how not look like an idiot on camera and now I'm a RUclips musician. I will try to incorporate guitar into contemporary sound and try to put a human element behind the sound of a guitar sample in hip hop songs. I have a producer in Nashville that works with hip hop artists and there has been an interest for guitar music samples in their tracks. Maybe if ppl could see that guitar music can be sexy, innovative, and exciting it could be interesting again. Basically what I'm working on right now in a nut shell. But i couldn't agree more with you on what you said. Thanks
@@DovydasMusic omg it’s Dovydas! Your channel is amazeballs
Joe Rogan has Steven Tyler on his pod cast today, and he said the same stuff you did about pro tools and bands today. I guess he’s just bitter he didn’t make it in the music business lol
Haha. Yeah I posted an excerpt of that on the circle of Tone Facebook page.
C.J. Blake I blamed consumers too. Check out my guitar is dead video.
Form bands, write songs, play gigs.
You actually have the courage of talking what you really think, and not giving 2 s**ts about the fact that many people may disagree. Props for that.
Thanks man.
He's from Wales, we're all like that haha.
C.J. Blake ruclips.net/video/X-DUIUyyNuM/видео.html
Andre Antunes Meu! Eu ainda não vi o vídeo mas como gosto mais do Rob Chapman eu acho que este gajo devia ir apanhar alhos! Mas vou ver e depois logo faço um juízo de valor... quando e que começas a comunidade portuguesa de guitarristas e aficionados? Estou a espera
courage means nothing when you're a whiny old turd
The reason I think Rock isn't big anymore, is because the ideals it held isn't controversial. Sex? Drugs? Equality? That's normal, go do drugs, go have sex, respect each other. Imo hip/hop is where rockstars are. I'm not talking about the mainstream stuff (though it can include them, like gambino, future, Kendrick lamar) I'm talking about how controversial it is to talk about gang life, the reality of the hoods that have been comidified by the market. Tupac was revolutionary, who else was bringing up police brutality and reaching a mainstream audience besides gangsra rap? Who else gave back to the streets that raised them? They're the "rock stars" (not literally obviously). If Rock ever comes back, it would have to be revolutionary to today's standards. Quite frankly I don't see any bands being like that, they're more concerned about being like 80's bands, like Zeppelin, like gnr, srv etc. musically, not as people with ideologies. This isn't a direct response just my two cents
You nailed it. Rap is what rock was. But history says these things go in cycles. We are in a pop phase (even w/ rap), but at some point we will get a "grunge" phase. It's all a cycle, you go to far one way and the you bounce back the opposite.
Listen to bad bunny,anuel or kevvo they are puertoricans trappers and talk about sex,drugs etcétera
When hearing stories about how bands started, it become obvious to me that housing affordability must have played a huge role in shaping the musical future. Many kids grew with parents too poor to afford a home with.....a garage or a basement of some sort. So what do they do ? Well, play around with a DAW and make some electro in your headphones instead!
thats a realy good point.
I agree. Was going to say escargot this but you say it better. Economics plays a big role as disparities are growing between comfortably off and struggling.
This reminds me of when I saw In Flames and Opeth together. In Flames had click tracks in ear, automated lights and (I was near the soundboard) pre-loaded flash drive with presets for the EQ and levels of each song. The sound guy literally just scrolled through the set list and the settings would change.
Then Opeth took stage. No clicks. Live lights. Live sound. Axe (drummer) counted the songs in.
Two totally opposite sides of the spectrum. I love both, but Opeth being old school gave me a much bigger respect for them.
i saw them in montreal, at the end of the show, in flames and opeth had played the same amount of time and i had enough of in flames but wanted more opeth.
as for the eq being scrolled, now with digital board you usualy do all your eq for the show during the sound check and make minor change or no change at all during the show and save both the engeneer and the musician a lot of work and time right before the show.
I am going to say something that probably no one is going to agree. Being a rock star sometimes has nothing to do with rock, real drums or anything. For me for example, the first daft punk album was more rock than guns and roses. Rock is not only classic rock but a specific attitude.
Bands use to rehearse a lot before they went to the studio because it was expensive... They would try out new songs on the road before they recorded them... and there is not much to write lyrics about sitting in your house...I think you have to live the rock life style to write about it..
Yep. Our bubbles are safe/cosy and so is our music.
I started playing in a band at 15 years old in 1974, they way I learned how to play was playing to Grand Funk Red album then the live album and Jamming alot with the older guys, our band played Led Zep, Black Sabbath,Alice Cooper, Mountain, Cactus, and a couple of Monkees songs we rocked up..lol, but most of this music was just coming out at the time, and we couldn't wait for music to come out.. Nothin beats sound of Mississippi Queen being blasted out of some good speakers or PA system...
The Government involved with rock music would be equally just as destructive as drum machines are to rock.
Lol. Yep.
"Government approved RocknRoll' - Bill Hicks.
Marcos. Isn't that essentially what most "indie" stuff is about? "Ooh hoo I'm a rebel just for kicks now"..'nuff said.
I am not so sure that it actually was "nuff said" because as it is written it doesn't make any sense. Did you maybe leave out a few critical words or some other pertinent information that would have made those two sentences cognitive? Just asking...
Marcos Farias RUclips family friendly demonitization rules will impact rock and metal IMO. That's why most rock and metal youtubers are bland. That rule will leech into all media because YpuTube bent over for sponsors.
Chimpman: "Guitar is not dead. I sell guitars. Buy my guitars"
this is a reaction channel now
I dont hate that tho, lov u
So long as he's reacting to people trashing his videos, i rather enjoy it. I wouldn't want to see him routinely troll other youtuber's. (although the occasional everybody's wrong one is nice- al a- Don't listen to youtubers when it comes to recording bass). I find it ironic that pretty much every youtuber has admitted that he is right about that, but yet people still watch useless youtubers rather than COT. personally i stopped watching Chappers a couple years ago, and wasn't that fond in the first place. glen is still awesome, Warren Huart is great, Killer Tone Texas is pretty amazing, and truck driver shawn for gear reviews. but the big guys kinda suck. you know who i'm talking about. they have serious blinders on. COT is definitely the best, most original/inspired and insightful channel out there for metal. everything else is the same old cut and paste bullshit.
you are 100% not wrong
One of my favorite Megadeth albums, Youthanasia, was recorded live. Dave and Marty panned to each side and Ellefson in the middle, all in one room with mic'd up amps. Nick was in an iso-booth and they all played to HIM. If HE had a problem, THEY had to re-record the song. Tedious, right?
But it's a fantastic album. Nobody has that anymore.
It's the attitude that's different now. Guitar music isn't dead, bands aren't dead, but no one is living the rock n roll life.
Christian of LiqueScent someone said it's like a coffee shop environment and I agree.
All the guitar heroes of the past century still used Marshalls, Oranges, Fenders and Mesas with Strat, teles and, SGs and Les Pauls for the most part, just like today.
The problem is not the equipment, it's the technique and the processing.
Yep. Little things like mic bleed from other instruments when tracking live = the excitement that analog chaos brings us.
CIRCLE OF TONE. Well, I try to balance the advantages of new technology with the old ethos.
I'm recording my band's debut EP with no click, real amps, real drums, no quantizing, no autotune, and, since I'll never be able to own an SSL nor Neve consoles and tape machines, I still simulate a completely analog emulated workflow in my DAW with great VSTs.
When we ask ourselves where is the next zeppelin or Beatles we have to consider if that's even possible. Maybe guitar music should die so it can be reborn. Guitar based music is mostly stale nowadays and will only continue to be stale until new creative avenues are explored.
I'll echo comments from my grandfather who was an auto executive about the bail outs that happened some time ago, "You hear about wall street, well American auto manufacturers were on Easy Street for decades. They failed to adapt and their share value was wiped out and they lost a significant portion of the market. My retirement would have been ruined if I invested in Ford like my coworkers and depended on its value." In short, when you are butt hurt the industry collapses, its usually not a far search to find that people got lazy and just thought the world would remain the way it always was. Its the cycle of capitalism. Markets get undercut but the response is to develop a new market opportunity. Music put its eggs in one basket and got crushed by the internet.The companies responsible for supporting rock heroes are more to blame I think. They didn't change with the times and their money dried up. I'm not sure that it will ever come back and now we are kicking rocks with our nostalgia for a thing that wont't be again.
The confusing thing about what you're saying is, on one hand you're saying that metal is suffering because most modern heavy metal bands are all using the same equipment and techniques. On the other hand you're solution is for everyone to go back to older techniques that every metal band already used for decades. How does that make you stand out or unique or original? Many of the metal bands we all love weren't totally unique and original. In every era you will find the metal bands using the same equipment and techniques as eachother.
Also, it doesn't matter what era you go to, bands had to jump through hoops and do shit they didn't want to do. Whether it was radio or tv spots or interviews or shitty long ass tours that they didnt want to do that would in some cases lead to them hating eachother, breaking up, getting burned out, dying etc. The difference was they were being forced to do it all by a record label. Now it's RUclips, Instagram, your website etc. Being stuck in the past is not a way forward. The truth is it's never been easier to make a great sounding metal record in your house with just a little bit of money. There has never been more metal music to choose from. Every metal band has the choice to make their album how they want, market themselves, and get their music directly to their fans. You might not be able to get rich off record sales alone but that's been the case for a very long time. The music industry changed awhile ago and it was always an extremely rare thing for a band to make it that big.
GoddessIn Triptych I agree. You have to dig through a lot of shit to get to the good stuff and because it's so saturated the good stuff can remain hurried and undiscovered. At least what I consider "the good stuff". I just don't agree with Owen that the problem with metal is it sounds too perfect and people don't like modern recording techniques. The average listener doesn't give a shit how you made it as long as they like the songs. Metal has always fluctuated in popularity and it's totally possible that it's days on top are over forever. That doesn't mean it's dead. Metal proved a long time ago that it's here to stay, whether it's on top or or not.
I think his point is that there is something to be learned from the the old way, it's important to at least consider it, and to incorporate some old school and modern ideas in your own way to sound more like yourself.
@@jameso87 If that is his whole point then I agree. I think you should have it all at your disposal, old and new. The problem of everyone copying each other is an old one and maybe a way to set yourself apart could be to go back to older and also proven techniques that dont really get used anymore. But I dont think that would "save" metal because there are plenty of bands that still do it old school.
You're really vocalizing something I've felt happening for years now, and you're spot on about artists having to spin too many plates in the form of social media marketing, much to the detriment of art and expression. Seems like everyone has forgotten an important lesson from the past: the medium is the message.
Yep. Songwriting and recording should be worth something. Not just a business card. We need to change the “music is free” mindset.
Many valid points here. Chapman should’ve watched the whole video. There are guitar hero’s but they aren’t culture hero’s how others were back in the “day”. Yeah, as musicians we love them but they don’t catch peoples eye outside of our bubble.
Yep.
I remember hearing a talk by rock producer Jack Endino in 2007. Although he was increasingly using digital recording by then, he emphasized that he did not use a click track to record rock. He said that the variations in tempo were part of what conveyed the emotion. You have hit the nail on the head. The ability to copy and paste and move things around requires that everything is the same speed so all the little pieces sync up. Maybe we have to not rely so much on the convenience of digial editing, and (shudder) have musicians record at the same time. A lot of jazz and classical is still recorded this way, BTW.
Yep. I wish people would understand the chemistry and groove is more important than how right chugs are.
I believe one of the major reasons that "Rock" and "Guitar" is where it's at is because it's become to "technical" oriented. Too much obsession with how "technically" proficient you are as a guitarist. Lost in that is actual creativity, character, style, and energy. Actual musicianship is lost in the industry right now. The "legends" were "groundbreaking" and "trailblazing" more so than today's players. Today's obsession is about "tightness" and being as complex as possible. We're making music that quite frankly, isn't fun. It's not that great. It's super technical "eh." Many of the "legends" we recognize today started out doing stuff that was considered "insane" or "incorrect" in music. "Nobody will listen to that mess." LOL Too much music today is safe and universally acceptable to music peers. That is not Rock N Roll.
Exactly. The opposite end of the scale is a problem too. I talk about both here: ruclips.net/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/видео.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Yes. The problem with "Rock" is it's being used as a novelty genre right now. Concentrating on the stereotypes of Rock and Guitar driven music, and less on the music itself.
What about Slipknot? I've always seen them as a reference and influence of a good and popular modern metal band.
As much as I admire ‘Chappers’ positive attitude, YOU are correct on all points. It’s unfortunate, but true. Studios close their doors regularly for lack of clients. Retailers are closing, another one near me shut down it’s Piano store which has been a mainstay for decades. I went into their guitar store part of their operation and it was full of cheap shit for beginners - no decent gear for real players. And of course there’s no record stores. It’s dead in so many ways. The general public are over it, and the rest of us have to suck it up and deal with it. VERY SAD TIMES.
Yep. It’s a chicken and egg issue. The touring/live scene of the 60’s and 70’s was why Queen etc get incubated. Now if downtown opened up again, what crap would we have to sit through? That’s why I’m claiming it’s dead.
studious are closing because you don't need so many studios this day. Amature bands can record nice demos in their bedrooms, people would go to an actual studio only to record a high quality record. And stores are closing thanks to online shops like amazon, this issue affects not only music stores. Times have changed but the only bad thing about them is that it is hard for us to adapt to them and embrace them
A music store a city or two away just reopened in albeit a much smaller space. I went by and said Hi and i wish her the best but skipped the Grand Opening this last weekend. Traffic was already bad and the destination didn't seem worth the trouble. Sad, really. One record store in the same city, maybe the last iin the county. I never go there anymore. Stacks of stuff already.
Well then I'm moving to Portland, baby!!! Sounds like heaven.
bring back the tapes and destroy the internet and record in mono again without any metronomes!
No EQ, reverb, or anything other than regular musicians recording stuff.
That will make all our music sound better
@CircleofTone ~ Just watched this (sorry for replying to a few of your older videos, but I've been kind of getting to know your channel, and looking at highlights. You're mostly spot-on. I was trained as an audio engineer by Shelly Yakus (mix engineer on John Lennon's Imagine, Tom Petty's Damn the Torpedoes, Blue Oyster Cult's Don't Fear The Reaper and hundreds of other classic rock albums and singles). I'm also a songwriter who has been stockpiling songs for years while engineering for other people and recently started playing drums/guitars/piano on fleshed-out versions of a bunch of tunes. Unfortunately, I'm using an electronic kit because of space limitations for my own work (I typically mix and master for other people from home, using pro-level mastering gear and PT Ultimate (the more recent HD variant). There are ways to make MIDI drums feel more responsive/less "Stiff", but they involve a lot of discipline with editing choices. Instead of "fixing" everything, you just concentrate on playing in time as best you can, but you avoid fixing anything that's possible (if you missed a kick or flubbed one, that's a quick cut and paste to fix without worrying about bleed...but otherwise, you try to keep it feeling "live"). Next, I would PRINT recordings using an analog insert. Get a relatively inexpensive Neve clone with EQ, route it via DI as an analog insert. Now you print things as if you recorded your drum samples live via a class A analog console (now, no matter how you set things up, if you're using the EQ it will never be perfect each time track to track. So a stepped analog mastering EQ might be better if you're more interested in being perfectly consistent with EQ choices on different drum tracks song to song, just a caveat If you're anti-perfection, then this will create variables that feel more human in terms of sonic textures). This is key. The end result will feel a LOT like live drums in a room, but you have to know what you're doing and have a good understanding of modern and classic mix techniques. I want to start a channel to document these kinds of technical approaches, while also showcasing my music, but I feel a bit awkward about the video side of things. I have social anxiety. I'm confident in my technical ability as a musician, performer, and technical engineer, but I'm a bit shy about running a camera all the time and have very little experience with using cameras and video editing. But I do think there are ways to use modern technology differently than most people do currently, and to zero in on approximates in terms of a more live feeling performance. Just food for thought. I wish I could skype you some time to get really in-depth about this and other recording approaches I've been testing out.
Don't really understand the crusade against metronomes. All it is is a tool to help your performance be the best it can be. I can understsnd not liking drum machines but that is not the same thing imo
COT, Nobody gets it anymore... :(
Sleep, High On Fire, Mastodon, Conan, Electric Wizard, there are a ton of fantastic metal bands filling venues large and small every night, and you're going to see Steel Panther.
I’ve seen most of those too ;-) plus those bands are mostly my age/old schoolers.
CIRCLE OF TONE. True, but it's a healthy scene IMO. Are you familiar with the Stoned Meadow of Doom RUclips page? He's posting great new albums by great new bands every day.
CIRCLE OF TONE - Sumac and Pallbearer.
@@witchfindergeneralelectric8758 love that channel, gives me faith in heavy rock music making a huge comeback. So many good bands in the underground scene.
It's disingenuous or just plain dumb to call it a "healthy scene" when so many people in it - even the big names you mentioned - have to work their asses off touring constantly until they're forty fucking years old to make any decent money. Most bands would be better off driving a truck all week to make their rent money and playing the local dive bar on the weekend just for fun than going on the road today. At least as a truck driver you might get health insurance.
"But it's not about the money" well yeah actually it is. Money's a huge factor in everything. At some point, if no one's making a living at any type of art, that art just withers up and dies on the vine.
I've been with you on most of your points regarding music these days. The one thing that I can't figure out is what is it with you and the railing against metronomes? That should be a critical component in a drummers development and especially if they are going to go into the studio. Now, whether or not you want to argue about chopping and editing the drummers takes to a grid or not, I will give you that. But a metronome? It's a must. Like I said, I am also with you on getting good guitar tones through amps and bass tones through a good head and 8x10 rig, and the vast amount of bands that sound so similar through plug ins and replacement drums is getting old. Engineers and producers are just like everyone else though. If Producer X is doing it and getting tons of work, then maybe I should. Love your channel and your passion. Keep it up. Cheers.
N3V3RSVFF3R213 Official thanks man. A metronome is great for certain styles. But now that nearly everything uses a click, that is a level, steady (boring) beat with limited movement.
the mistake your making is orienting yourself in the Popular bands. For me there still are such amazing bands (old ones and new ones) i dont see a problem
Examples?
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Destroyer 666, Satanic Warmaster (2014 Fimbluwinter is IMHO their best release), Ketzer (I know Starless sucks but frst 2 albums are great), Batushka.
@@Jagdpz5Predictable that you mention blackened metal by numbers. You should watch this for my opinion of blackened metal and its effect on the metal scene ruclips.net/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/видео.html
We need more innovators and fewer imitators. This is why I have to search for more and more obscure bands, AKA the ones that are trying to do something different and thus are suffering commercially and have to remain a niche band.
Ghost will save rock and roll and bring back the rock star. Featuring the amazing riffs from a nameless ghoul and a nameless ghoul, the drum rhythms of a nameless ghoul, the bass groove from a nameless ghoul, and then there's the keyboardist, a nameless ghoul.
Times change, music changes, music industry changes, style changes. Nothing wrong with that, there will always be trends.
Richard Floyd yep. But the excitement that drew people to rock/metal is now being generated by EDM and rap. It’s partially because of this youtuber coffee shop vibe that’s pretty...boring/safe.
No rebels, no Rock n Roll, pc and smartphones.. times are changing, im a dinosaur.
Yep. Some of the best music was written by risk takers. I feel metal and rock got very sensible.
I can't believe that anyone can take anything that Rob Chapman says as serious. Ask this. Who does he love? Yep. Rob Chapman. Don't give him your time.
I was literally shouting 90% of what you've just said whilst watching Chapper's video. Great video man.
Me too, man.
I for one am still just slightly disturbed that with all the brilliant advances in music technology over the last three or four years (even Metallica use AXFX and solid state amps now) that there is a clamouring for a more traditional and analogue age.
I am a massive cynic.
Rejecting modern technology all seems like a lot of sunk cost fallacy for me.
The People invested in the age of analogue are just doubling down like pissed off gamblers
Either that or people invested so much in the old technology and own so much of it...that they need to cynically pretend it is better than the modern stuff.. to maintain its resale value.
The last thing they need is a common perception growing, that the new stuff is super awesome and super capable.
Frankly as musicians (and not collectors) we should all be taking advantage of new technology and of its ease and convenience, and making it better and better and getting the most out of it..not whinging about how things sounded better, when you had to dick around with glass tubes, tape machines and ancient microphones, needed a team of recording engineers and had to pay 300 dollars an hour.
I don't know...I just don't trust traditionalists.
to even think that chappers made a response video to yours, that's already telling us, the viewers, that something is off. he feels it, and his business might be also in danger. so chappers, responding to your video is like a band aid solution to an impending disaster.
What both you and Chappers don't seem to get is: a) guitar is not dead, it's just not that "visible" anymore and b) there are no more guitar heroes anymore, there are just amazing guitar players, some famous, some not. You're both half right, and half wrong. I couldn't care less about John Mayer's ability to shred, I just love his music, the feel. I'm also a metalhead, loving the skills of Martin Larsson, Hammet, Mustaine and so, so many others. I'm also a guitarist myself, the kind that most guitubers mock, no amp just two Cort guitars and a Zoom pedal. And you know what? I enjoy playing, I enjoy recording with my cheap ass gear, I love making MY music. You know what will eventually kill the guitar? Videos like "there's nothing like a great tube amp". Some of the younger talent are now looking for better gear instead of trying to be better musicians.
Rock isn't dead, it just seems more polished and sterile IMO. ( I'm more rock than metal btw ) There is also plenty of rock or even metal out there, but just too much damn noise to sift through to find those 'diamonds in the rough' ) . I.e Internet musicians. Not a bad thing, as I spend hours watching, but I do miss the days of Hit Parader and Circus ;)
Yep. Rock has gone from spit and sawdust to coffee shop mentality.
There are three ways to sift. There are websites where you put in the name of an act and it will then show some acts that sound like the act that you put in. Then you can click on one of the acts that popped up and it'll show artists that sound like that artist. The second option is to find an online critic that has the same tastes as you. The third option is to listen to modern blues such as Beth Hart, Samantha Fish, Gary Clark Jr. etc. which have blues rock songs. Broken and Ugly, Immortal, Face Forward and Burn Chile are examples of modern blues rock that can compete with the classics.
Use to be 100 bands selling a million records now it's a million "musicians" selling a hundred records.
I totally get your point with the overproduction, midi grid, samples and quantization. And I agree that it is a beautiful thing to listen to a new album which has this certain element to it of a band actually being able to play together really really well and interact with each other even on the record, because it came live from the floor and I think that most of the "modern metal" guys emphasising "precision" have a flawed understanding of the emotional workings of music being performed - BUT I think that you overstretch the clicktrack/metronome in all of it.
You actually can produce digitally with a underlaying clicktrack the exact same oldfashioned way like with a 8track tape recorder. My band did just that on two demo tapes: preproduce guitartracks to a click, let the drummer play the actual recordings live to a click (meaning: when he fucks up maybe split a song into two takes, but none of that quantization shit) and those preproduced guitars, then afterwards put Bass and actual guitars on top of that.
Does it sound well enough for us? Sure. Do we fuck up sometimes? Yes, there are some little fuck ups here and there. Do we have to make numerous takes on some of the stuff? Hell yeah. Do we use v30 and the sm57? Among other stuff, like the AudioTechnica ATM thanks to your vid about it. Does the result sound like the whole djent modern metal stuff that I actually ever only hear and see about on freaking youtube and NEVER in my life in the actual metalscene (in continental europe, though)? Not one bit.
darillio good points. I’m a bit disappointed at industrial music. I mean now is the best time ever to get creative with drums etc.
I got bored of being an Air Guitar God, just couldn't get the tone i wanted :(
You are probably using the wrong air strings. Or it's possible your air strap is adjusted too high not allowing your stance to be cool and thereby affecting your air tone in a negative way. It's a fairly common problem.
You obv did not have the right tonewood, only regular....wood.
I think on the air guitar it's referred to as tonewouldn't.
I was using the Titanium 7mm thick plectrums, i think my main issue was finding an airstring gauge thick enough .
On a serious note though, i live in South Wales as well and the live scene seems to have disappeared in the town. Hell Skindred played here once with afew local bands supporting them .... nothing now :(
you are absolutely right about metal and rock being highly processed while its claiming to be more natural than pop. In a way it is and in a way it isn't. Having been recording a couple of records in 2010's I have seen and sat there playing and being recorded and seen the process. You're right. We no longer record on tape (mostly because its so damn expensive to do so and not so many studios have a tape machine) so we have the possibility to do retakes. And that gives us young musicians a chance to make an album. Other point is that why those bands back in the days were so good. I quess its because it was new and exciting, no one had done things like Hendrix or AC/DC but by now everything has been done. It's so difficult to come up with something new and revolutionary. Next point: Today there are SO MUCH bands and those new bands that actually are good players need to do a lot more work today to get anywhere, to stand out. Back in the day there were not as many bands so knowing how to play and doing few shows was enough to get peoples attention. Today you'd have to play small bars and clubs for years to even gain some sort of fanbase (or win some sort of a band competition which really boosts your career). On top of that POP is dominating the media so getting medias attention and getting your song on the radio is harder today than ever. Next point: Young people don't have time to invest to the band activities today. Modern world requiers higher education so studying takes a lot of peoples time. You mentioned Ghost being a ''joke band''. Well that's why they are succesful, THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING NEW and that's what it requiers today. Our band supported Sonata Arcrtica once, no media responded because its normal small bands supporting big ones. Then we played a death metal concert in a damn shopping mall. Sounds like a joke right? Well the media loved it.
Kimmo Kylä-Laaso good post. I think mic bleed with proximity of 3 or 4 people playing is also part of the magic.
EDM is the new Rock n Roll... Love it or hate it, EDM producers/DJ's are garnering the fame, excess, crowds, money and wild behaviour that was previously associated with Rock. Dont believe me? Just check out any DJ's live set or behind-the-scenes tour video, and you will see what I mean... RUclips, drum samples, over-produced records and laziness didn't kill Rock/Metal... Dance Music did. Don't get me wrong, The things Owain mentioned certainly didn't help, but they aren't the sole reason Rock/Metal is less popular. Where's this generation's Keith Moon? He's a DJ... Where's the new Jimi Hendrix? He's an EDM Producer/Composer... Who is this generation's Beatles? They're an EDM ensemble of super-producers. The truth is, modern audiences like the sound of computer-generated synths, leads and beats, more than the sound of stringed instruments and acoustic drums... I'm not even an EDM fan, it all sounds the same to me. However, I'm not blind to the changing tastes and preferences of the wider-public.
I agree. You get better music with more attitude from EDM than most modern rock. What’s crazy is you would think industrial metal would be killing it right now.
Here's my version of industrial. You'll probably hate me because I programmed the drums but the guitar playing might tickle your fancy a bit ;)
ruclips.net/video/g1bvS_tL5Fw/видео.html
Circle What?? If you really think that EDM is better than most modern rock you are just a delusional cynical prick, Please let us hear you masterful, super innovative metal and rock compositions that sound like something never hear before, you're just too opinionated and cynical.
Maxwell Blue you sound like gene Simmons about how rap is the new rock
Lol, wild behavior.. standing in front of a crowd and pretending to pressing buttons and sliders (because the music is pre-recorded) isn't wild
When I recorded for the first time in the 80's we didn't use a click track or metronome for the timing..the band was the timing...that's rock n roll...
Yep. Now a million kids are producing musak and IMO we need to stop handing out gold stars.
I don't think you understood what Rob Chapman was saying. You are entitled to think what YOU appreciate in the past is gone, but that doesn't mean that something else hasn't taken its place, something YOU don't appreciate. That doesn't mean the guitar is dead or that rock is dead. It just changed into something you can't appreciate because you're stuck in the past.
The fact that you keep saying "where's the next Queen" shows how you completely missed the point. There probably will never be another Queen, maybe there wont be another Foo Fighters even. But does that mean that the smaller bands that appeal to their own smaller fanbase, that you never heard of, are worthless? Almost everyone and their mother has a band today. There are concerts taking place everyday in every city in small venues. Does that mean music is dead because you can't see one big band? And how the hell are you going to judge anyone's originality when you're looking at Childish Gambino? That's not where rock/metal music is flourishing. I repair amps for a living, and almost every client of mine, from young people to retirees have their own bands and are playing regularly live. You need to expand your view of the world. Stop looking at the mainstream for the good stuff, that's not where it is anymore.
skynet3d How can I not understand? You just gave the same answer as Chappers. Mentioned zero bands and assuring me that I just can’t find it.
I don't know how you can not understand it. But you don't seem to. How would mentioning band names help, if it's more than likely that they wouldn't live up to the bands you mentioned? The point isn't that there should be a small Queen quality band playing in some dark corner, the point is that there are rock and metal bands everywhere and they have their own following. And that following is enough to motivate other kids to start playing, isn't that what we are discussing? If the guitar is or not dead? What you are arguing for is the same as arguing that music is dead because record sales are down. No, music is bigger than ever, it's just reaching the audience in a different way (sure, not making as much money). Guitar sales from the big companies are down, guitar sales from small builders and partscasters are up. Again, the problem is your expectations. There will not be another Queen probably, why are you expecting there to be one when there's not reason to do so? The industry has changed and it isn't likely to support something like that.
skynet3d bigger than ever? It's just in the dark. So... I just have to find it. Even though online everything is searchable? I was a software test tech for a bleeding edge company. You think I can't move a mouse around to find new bands? Haha. It's easier than ever to find new music and bands. That does not mean they are any good.
I enjoy watching your videos and I broadly agree but I'm gonna make a few counterpoints:
1. People are making the same arguments about rap being dead. The glory days for hiphop are generally considered to be early 90s (depending who you ask).
2. From what you say, the live scene in America for rock music doesn't seem to be as stagnant and struggling as the scene in the UK. There are loads of interesting bands playing small venues here, so the variety is there although I believe the pay is not great.
3. bands in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc had to work really hard too. Much harder than bands today. So Rob Chapman doing guitar clinics and youtube videos is analogoous to the Beatles doing endless press tours and events and recording and writing constantly. I think if you're at the top you really have to work hard for a long time and do a huge amount of stuff that is not strictly 'music' to make it in the music biz.
4. Building a youtube fanbase takes a long time, but so does becoming Eddie Van Halen or Slash.
5. Live music is not as 'new' as it was when all these bands were around the first time through. Crowds lost their shit seeing massive arena shows with fireworks because it had never been done before. Now such theatrics are more normal it is fairly normal and it could be argued it's harder to be surprised at a live show.
I'm a fan of Rob's too, and I agree with the points you're making here. Becoming a successful guitar player in the system Rob described is more about being tech savvy and a marketable personality than it is about actually playing music and writing/performing great songs in a live band setting. I like the digital tools we have today for making affordable demos as a soloist, but I agree that it shifts the focus away from everything guitarists and bands were in the past and puts an expiration date (next month) on the music because it all sounds like it came out of the same pot. My hope is that when the dust settles, there will be an awakening of the masses to what's been lost due to mass marketing and digital production trends and we could then see a renaissance of true performance by skilled musicians. Thanks for the vid.
Thanks man. I think tech has become a crutch rather than a tool.
It certainly has
I think the RUclipsrs, especially guys like Chappers and other guitarists whose bread and butter are review videos are overstating their roles. I've seen a few call themselves guitar heroes when responding to the Guitar is Dead content. From where I'm sitting, I see them more as guitar salesmen. They are no more guitar heroes than the guy at the music store that showed me the Ampeg VH140C for the first time. Sure, he is a good musician. He had a band that was really good (they even got a shout out from Tommy Lee on Headbanger's Ball), and the purchase inspired me to play heavy metal for decades. However, I would not call him a "guitar hero" nor would I put him next to names like Page, Clapton, or Hendrix. To me, they are just guitar salesmen on a larger scale. It's great that a lot of them make a living out of it, but i'm detecting that a few of them are having delusions of grandeur.
I was actually thinking about this stuff for a while now. What I’ve found with myself is, instead of finding and listening to some of the new rock bands, I actually move back in time with my music selection. Everything sounds sterile to me. Your points just made my thoughts sit in a right place right now. It was frightening at first because I thought something was happening inside of me, but it seems that I’m not alone.
Thanks. It’s reminds me of modern VST Digital orchestral synth scores in movies. It’s so sterile and fake when you hear the real deal in Jaws etc. it’s easier, cheaper, quicker so now one guy scoring and recording movie soundtracks has made movies vanilla sausages too.
Big music is dead because big money moved in with with MTV and massive corporate mergers of the early 90s which monopolised and homogenised the music industry, they didnt adapt to Napster hence - ticket master, 360 deals, etc. etc. The way forward for the modern artist is small audiences at opera houses and theatres aswell as concept albums with youtube-visual. Perhaps it's time to move on. Keith Moon et al was a by-product of the industry at that time, speculators investing in musicians hoping to make a profit off the mechanical sale. The truth was that back then the industry was using drink and drugs to rip artists off keeping them stupid and controllable. Marketing was always a part of the industryArtist don't these conmen music execs anymore, they can do it for themselves. Surely a good thing?
I agree with the whole Keith Moon point you were making. I'm a pretty accomplished guitar player and songwriter who has wasted the last 15 years working with the wrong people, which inevitably wasted a lot of my time and probably squandered more than one good opportunity for me. Here I am now trying to reach out to internet land these last two years and I realized what all entails with being a modern musician now with having to spin all these plates, learn this software, learn that software, invest in nice video equipment (which I haven't been able to afford yet), everything you can think of that has nothing to do with me actually playing my guitar and concentrating on music. It has turned into one big popularity contest and honestly, I see a lot of extremely mediocre guitar players on RUclips who have large followings which shows that the vast majority of their fans care more about their personality behind the camera as opposed to their ability to actually play guitar. I really do understand that, not trying to be a bitter dick about it but it still sucks to see face-melting guitar players getting snubbed for less talented amateurs. I'm seeing it more and more everyday it seems. Seems to be a global shift in the politically correct hive-mind of the modern world. Recently I've been seeing a lot of attractive female guitar players with mediocre (that's being nice) skills out there gaining huge followings and honestly, if it was some old bald dude playing the exact same way he'd get zero views, where as these girls are getting thousands of views for their sloppy amateur covers of classic songs. I don't care if you're a man or woman, black, white, yellow or purple; all I care about is can you actually play? It's sad to see some hot chick who can barely play get so much attention just because she's all slathered in makeup and smiling at the camera. I'm sure the majority of their subscribers are sweaty perverts, as witnessed by reading the comments on some of those vids haha. For real, not gender bashing... Someone like Lari Basilio, yeah that woman can actually make a guitar talk and she's not alone but just really grossly outnumbered by hot chicks who can barely play. A lot of those chicks have a bigger following than Lari which just proves my point of no matter how you get to the finish line or what tactics you use (cleavage), it's all a popularity contest where actual talent might be one of the last things on the list to get checked off, if at all. We live in a world now where your video editing skills are more important than your abilities to play when concerning guitar specifically. What's even worse is that the next generation that's coming up is being taught that this is the way to go... Fucking sad. I'm sitting on a virtual mountain of music that I have yet to figure out what to do with yet because I don't want to just give it away for nothing. Been dropping a song here and there on RUclips to test the waters but I realize that I'm not good at this whole being a RUclips personality thing so growing my channel is almost impossible. I'm an introverted musician which makes all of this shit hard. What if Jimmy Page had to do all this bullshit back in the day? I heard he was a pretty introverted dude, too. Lucky for us that he came about when he did, huh?
I like Chappers but I think he's in a unique position where it's hard to relate to an average nobody like me. Hard to see the bottom of the valley from high atop the mountain. I share your bitterness towards this modern day bullshit. And to those saying we DO have guitar heroes, yeah maybe among us musicians in our little bubble but the days of the Eddie Van Halen types who were a household name known by everyone regardless of their musical tastes are gone. At least for now.
Thanks Wes. It’s a shame we are at this point. Perhaps a network of more traditional recording/rehearsal can be the new scene? I mean people put a lot of effort into this bland vanilla sausage. They can put the same amount of effort into trying to capture a band.
Circle of tone? More like circle of MOAN.
Greetings,
I love that I'm an old geezer and I can still rip Death Metal. The satisfaction a millennial gets swiping his finger across a smart phone is zero in comparison to me swiping my finger across the neck of my custom explorer into my 5150 (modded) head into my MESA halfstack with Vintage '30's. When I swipe my finger, the entire room shakes. When they swipe their finger it just isn't the same. I love the pure raw power and I feel bad for these younger guys that were conned by the system into abandoning the guitar in exchange for a Hello Kitty Emoji.
Rob is an ok guy but if him and his bands music are supposed to be evidence that rock an metal isn't dying then I'm highly unconvinced. Everything I hear these days is painfully bland an embarisingly stereotypical. It all sounds like someone trying to sound like a rock band as opposed to actually being a genuine rock band. The way music is going these days and the kind of things rob supports like building a following online etc goes against everything true art, true rock, true metal, hell true any music/art stands for. I think his success has blinded him. He's making money ruining what's made music great so why would he agree with us and loose the revenue he gets from putting out music as forgettable as the top ten pop songs at any given moment these days. He should use his platform to move music back to an honest pursuit about bearing ones soul not bearing ones willingness to do whatever it takes to get likes and subs. I don't dislike rob but his bands songs could have been written and performed by souless robots and I wouldn't be able to tell a difference. It's as if he thinks as long as you play really well you don't have to put real emotion into your work. Maybe he thinks he is, maybe he actually is and in that case I feel bad saying it but all his songs seem like they were banged out in an hour and the lyrics were just meant to sound cool without having any actual personal meaning. Kids look up to him and it's no wonder people are loosing interest cause limitless skill with no real feeling is hollow. It's such a difficult thing to do, to write genuine music people connect with so I'm not saying it's easy. It's hard for everyone even those who try their hardest. But what I'm saying is, it's like everyone has given up on/abandoned making something great for making something passable that can catch someone's attention long enough to make a buck. Anyways I'm rambling but I feel the same way as circle of tone. Rob is nice enough, plays well, and makes great lessons. But his music promotes complacency and mediocre musicianship. It's ok to suck as long as you give it your all and try your hardest , but it's not ok to suck because your just banging out stereotypical crap you think sounds cool. But what do I know, those are just my 2 cents.
Michael Inglis
How much you think he's making with his band? I don't think he makes as much as with social media, and guitar sales.
Yeah that's what I've no noticed these RUclips guitarists are great players in the technical sense but horrible songwriters.
CorbCorbin Right, that's exactly how I see it. Anybody that goes to see his band is only there cause he's made himself famous on RUclips. And the few true fans the band really does pool together are ignorant listeners to put it politely. I think it's kind of sad, some part of him has to know all this. Then again maybe he thinks he rocks cause all the 15 year olds and beginner guitar players he has sucking his balls all the time cloud his judgement......lol that's too far. I like the guy enough but I don't respect what he's done with his platform.
Big ups to this @Michael Inglis
How old do you think Rob Chapman is? I don't think he does gigs because he hopes to get global recognition/success as a band. He seems smarter than that. If he plays music is because, I'm guessing, he loves to do so. And he plays the music he likes and he's capable to create with the time and talent he has. Not everyone can be a musical prodigy. However, some of the kids that bought a guitar and learnt to play it because of Rob's videos will indeed make great innovative music.
The scene has changed but the song remains the same... What strikes a nerve in the general publics listening ear is the same as it has always been, but how it gets to those ears has changed. There used to be a time where human program directors selected tracks for air play which would generate record sales that created 'rock stars', however nowadays that role has been automated on data based on 'likes' and 'hrs played' and '% listened', and big media only swings its glance if something has 'gone viral' ....
There is no doubt that there is plenty of talent to choose from and there are places like DistroKid to help get it out there, and you are 100% correct in implying that most out there in listener land use media like 'The Voice' to introduce themselves to new material such as singers like Ed. But in a RUclips world of subscribers we are only playing to those who have an expressed interest which all too often is not the exposure numbers we need.
Until there can be a return of regular big media hosted shows like Eurovision, Countdown, MTV up late, Top of the Pops, or American Bandstand on most of the mass media platforms we will only ever see singers reach the treasured #1, and actual musicians regardless of their talent will all permanently become 'also rans' and dismissed as stage fodder to the most popular voice....
Uh oh, is this going to be Will Gelvin all over again?
Rob is giving encouragement to a lot of discouraged musicians. You're utterly obsessed with the past; times have changed and you have to adapt.
KHeavy I think he just wavy rock and metal musicians to write better songs. Whereas it all the "guitar hero's" now got famous more for there RUclips channels then having great music.
Seriously, bro? Look at the current roster of popular rock bands. Are any of them anywhere near as well known, min-blowing, or even just GOOD AT ALL out there? Almost all of the good bands are so underground that they already had a fucking funeral.
Mitchfinder - EXACTLY! there is no market for guitar based bands. yes, they exist. no, not a single person other than musicians who play guitar care.
KHeavy you have to ask yourself this question man, would bands from back in the day even get a second look in today's day and age.... The answer is no. The people they're looking for today has to have the right look (more so than talent it seems), marketability is king today. We have missed out some some serious talent guaranteed because of this.
How could this be down voted? He makes excellent points and he is spot on. Chappers is happy to be raking in the dough because he considers himself to be a guitar hero... he isn't... he is a business man.
Circle of Tone, I think Rock and Metal aren't dead.
And the funny thing is that _you_ convinced me of that with your video about the Belgian music scene.
I genuinely think that bands like Brutus, RaketKanon and Kaptain Korpakov can bring new life to the Metal and Rock scene.
Good stuff eh?
Absolutely!
Compared to what Rock used to be, it is at least on life support. Rock used to be at the top when it came to worldwide popularity and commercial viability. Now it's just pop and hip-hop dreck.
How many Keith Moons have their been since Keith Moon?
How many Lemmys have there been since Lemmy? or come before them for that matter?
It's pointless to replace (or become) them because they were all unique and in the right place at the right time.
There has been an ever-increasing demand for multiple skills to get any job you apply for these days.
Could any legend we know and love begin their careers today and be praised in the same they would be back in the day?
All the legends you can think of had some kind of support to get to where they are today.
Society and culture have changed a lot in the least 40-50 years which Is what I took away from Chappers response and it will change again no doubt.
Isn't rap/hiphop heavily backed by the corporations at this moment in time as the "rebellious" music though? I wonder if the there will be a vid in about 30 years complaining rap is dead?
Is one's worth (or their creation) tied only to its monetary value?
Garry it’s a chicken and egg issue. IF today’s live scene was as vibrant as the 60’s and 70’s IMO you would be getting a steady flow of new rock luminaries. Now we have a steady flow of copycats and musak.
Add to that rock has gone from spit and sawdust to a coffee shop mentality.
Good post BTW.
I'm not that into avenged sevenfold but I can tell you now syn and zakk can play
M E H how about corey beauliu and matt heafy?.
Yeah them too
M E H i can say that also they are like my favorite modern guitarists and they are also able to write some great melodies not just technical playing i mean not every band exaggerates the technical side of things trivium is one of them.
i went to a school of 2000 people and i was literally only one of probably two people who liked metal and played an instrument.
rock and metal is just going underground and we're being forced to spend our time just hanging out with eachother, musicians watching musicians on RUclips.
theres no more millions of normal people who dont even play an instrument getting fired up about rock gigs and bands.
Thank you again for this video, so few people understand what is truly wrong with music and metal nowadays. I personally had the problem of someone caring more for social media than the music in my band, and they are not in the band now because of it, along with a plethora of other reasons. I personally despise social media, but understand it is a necessary evil, though I love that some bands, such as Deicide, don't even have a personal facebook which is awesome, though modern Deicide post Hoffman bros isn't awesome.
The hardest part of music is the marketing yo. Keith moon had a label to do that for him while he was busy getting dead.
sunnohh when you get up to his antics, that’s a form of marketing. Haha
70's are GONE. Times have changed and you seem to miss the point, still being stuck in this "golden age" fallacy of yours which will not come back. It was not enough to be a good musician ONLY in those days either. Some of your points I agree with but still - if artistic value is all you care about then this is actually the perfect time. Only now instead of big labels - people decide. The wish was granted. No more corporate sellouts. ;)
hey Circle of Tone - why are the videos in the description set to private? Is there a way to watch them? You've got really good points
“Rock N Roll is dead”
What can save it?
“A bunch of money”
Oh... OK, how do we get that money?
“Let’s do what classical music does and prop it up with donations from wealthy people even though the demand for the music style is virtually zero”
So... that’s rock n roll? That’s how we bring it back? Give the next Keith Moon a wealthy financial backer like he is a violinist in an orchestra?
“Yes”
Ok, so all he has to do is convince Jack Black to give him money to do drugs and live in a house with a band for 8 months and make an album?
Love your channel and you make some good points but guitar isn’t “dead” it’s just not popular. There’s a difference. And let’s not take cues from classical music community please.
It’s chicken and egg. Keith got good because of the live scene/CONSTANT playing/shows. Remember I’m claiming rock is dead. I just want to preserve its corpse and IMO the key is to make downtown weird again.
CIRCLE OF TONE. There are simply more musicians in general though. There are more people drumming and drumming “better” than Keith moon in 2018 then there was in 1968. Seriously there is so much music being made that it’s impossible to say that rock or metal is dead, it just is competing with pop music and pop music is winning.
Hey I’m with you, I want more musicians to make money, but the reality is that kids don’t like rock music because it’s supposed to be listened to in s love environment.
I believe if we started getting kids into shows as teenagers and got them exposed to live music that would create the next generation of musicians and music lovers. Seriously, take a kid to a hardcore show, or punk, or metal, or rock, or pop-punk, or whatever. Let them make a fool of themselves in the mosh pit and let them stage dive, and get them involved.
Money had nothing to do with the music, money ruined music. Make people fall in love with the live show again. Then watch the popularity shift.
Jeremy DePace best comment man. i agree 100%
Great comment. As a (former) professional classical singer, the industry's inability to accept its niche status is terrible. In England we commit a lot of public money to stuff that no-one but the privileged is listening to. The tickets are still hugely expensive and the 'country house' opera scene is paradigmatic of the rich giving money to themselves. There's nothing wrong with paying for the entertainment you want, but claiming moral superiority whilst taking money from vital public services is something that should be questioned. Classical music was built on a system of courtly patronage in which princes and queens favored particular artists. There is nothing democratic about it and believing that throwing more money at purportedly 'genuine' rock and metal artists will transform the industry is naive.
The reason why guitar music is dead is that people want everything for free. All these old bands we're talking about - there was no piracy back then, no technology. Seeing someone live was special, today seeing a band live almost feels like a waste of time.
People had to go to gigs and buy shit to listen to their favorite artists, which, in the end made them make cash, be able to play even bigger gigs, make more cash etc. Imagine - there was almost no merch back then, no T-shirts, bracelets, key chains, sneakers etc.
Today, even bigger bands have to push out tons of merch to survive. Everyone thinks that with youtube being so big and available, it's everyone's right to listen to their favorite bands' music for free. I think it was either Iron Maiden or Metallica who were planning a major gig back then and what they did was - look at the regions with highest piracy rates and then booked a gig there in Brazil or Argentina and bam millions of $ made once more.
I also think that back then, it was very difficult to become a musician. The availability of instruments at a reasonable price wasn't there, no material online, it just required you to do it full time. You had to be fortunate enough to be able to afford some of those things and stupid enough to invest your time. because even back then those old times produced thousands of artists who just wouldnt make it.
Today, you get dozens of cheap vs expensive instruments and anyone can become at least 'a player'. Which just so happened that there's 10000x players more than ever before which makes it less special and more like 'fishing'. :)
Karol Kozak Yep. Is become faceless.
It's a little ironic that Ghost is a more unique sounding band yet the musicians are literally "faceless ghouls". I guess that's part of the statement they're trying to make.
The whole thing is done perfectly. King Diamond with Aspergers.
I always think it's funny that people are discovering Ghost as a new sound, when my first thought was "80s Swedish synth pop metal?":) Love what they are doing, seen them live, and it's nice to hear metal that isn't extreme.
CIRCLE OF TONE. The wife and I refer to Ghost as “Blue Oyster Fate”. I think that’s a fairly good summation of their sound.
CIRCLE OF TONE. As someone who was and is diagnosed with Aspergers, that comparison offends me.
Max Scardanelli I was diagnosed with autism and I think you are overreacting.
Instead of being proud of the genetic problem we BOTH have in common, get off your high horse and fix yourself
It' s also disappointing the fact that so many youtube chanels are focused on the products instead of the actual musicians. Just sales and marketing...
DON'T you mean The FAPPENING?
Never forget
LEST we forget!
The problem, is that everyone has to be a bedroom musician/YT star, and play for a camera. The opportunities to play live with a band for an audience are withering away, and that is TERRIBLE for the sustenance of rock/metal. It's stripped away one of the main purposes of playing music.
Rock/metal has gone a bit Coffee House rather than spit and sawdust.
Agree. It's just a disaster all the way around.
Rob posted a list of new guitar heros in the comments of that video if I remember rightly
true!
of course. they are heroes to people who play guitar. Hendrix was a hero to everyone. the point isn't that they don't exist. the point is that nobody cares, and the market can't support them or pay them what they are worth. The fact that he needed to make a list to inform people says it all.
Just his YT-buddys, They all suck
Slaves Forging because shredding on a guitar was new to everyone. Now everyone can do.it so its less popular.
Makes me want to practice my bass guitar. Just so I get back my skills and write music again. 20 years ago I was really good at my psychedelic jazzy blues metal. I miss my old band.
Look man i get some of your points but the scope of the industry has changed its in flux. The popularity of guitar and guitar based music is always in flux right now. Definately a down swing. Lots of music im not digging for sure but its not forever. Things will change the way things work will change and good music will rise. I do think that the internet in the new way for music. I think reality is somewhere between you and chappers he has been fortunate enough to be super successful on youtube and launched a career snd company. He is paving the way for how things will be. That said this state of flux is affecting good creative music because many people dont want to switch to the new way of doing things. Not saying you are one of those people. You have a good grip on things and make good videos.but i dont think its dead just hiding lol
I scan iTunes for new artists/releases weekly and can't believe what passes as "new music". There are NO new guitar heroes or even rock bands being signed or produced.
Michael Steven yep. It’s a shame.
You are correct in saying there are no more guitar heroes. Anybody who is not fully immersed in the guitar playing culture would be very hard pressed to come up with a name of a current "guitar hero". I, myself am having trouble coming up with a name of someone who would fit the bill. Every name I come up with is at least ten years old in terms of popularity.
Yep. It’s tough.
Yeah... I was gonna write something like Opeth under one of the earlier COT's videos, but their first album was released in 95 ;]]
Would that be Mithter Hollandths Opeth?
Yeth. I thuppothe.
Hahahahaha nice!
Hey Circle, I posted on your last video on this subject. My name is Taylor Wheeler and my goal is to inspire the next generation of musicians and to be a successful recording artist. I have been put through to to the final 12 of Fender Undiscovered in the UK, we have filmed the heats now which are out in Mid June to be voted out on by the public. As a bassist, guitarist and songwriter that has done his 10,000 hours and then some, i will say again how much i resonate with the situation. The Mainstream media / radio is bleak place for music atm with everything sounding so quantised as well as songs being written based on trends. Times have changed and talent isn't standing out anymore even though it is there. Social media culture and Streaming Services have destroyed the worth of music, but i believe that given the right platform the talent can be found. I have an opportunity to go through to the final, if i do, i will make sure that Fender Undiscovered is the vessel that gets me into the music industry. If you like what i do, i would really appreciate you or anybody reading this comment to vote and support my music when the heats come out. Best
Taylor Wheeler agreed. Good luck with the finals.
Ed Sheeran.. never heard of her
Album “Souless Ginger” was my fav.
But then so did Bro’s in 80’s..Take That in 90’s..Blue..One Direction etc. But bands like Metallica are still alive and loud
Something that boggles my mind is how there are so many technical metal bands yet no one seems to be so impressed by it that it influences tons of people to start to play guitar.
Dude guitar is more alive then ever. Rob is totally right. There are soo many great guitarists these days who blow all the classic rock guys away. No guitarheroes these days? Tf dude did you live under a stone? What is Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abasi and Misha Mansoor to just name a few. Just because people have moved on from making 70s music doesn't mean guitar or even rock is dead. Sorry dude but it seems like you never visit the internet and lived under a stone for the last 30/40 years.
jan de man Tosin Abassi? Give me a fucking break.Hes the definition of TOKEN.Its retarded jazz metal for turetts patients who cant count to one.Also who the fuck is going to buy a 80 string retuned drop z guitar?Guthrie Govan is as original as Vanilla Icecream and the other.......?
Ralph Ciavolino lol dude, Tosin Abasi is a great player, who blows the Jimmy Pages, Jimi Hendrixes and (insert any '60s and '70s guitar 'hero') alway, so does Guthrie Govan. Alot of young people see guys like these as their guitar heroes.. but well, now i am curious, what guitar players do you like?
can anyone who isn't a bedroom guitarist name a single song any of them have written?
Love me some Animals As Leaders, but nobody knows Tosin Abasi. Everybody knows/knew Clapton, BB King, Kirk Hammet, Slash, Gary Moore, Angus Young...
arglbargl Yes, 100%. As far as guys like guthrie govan; you are right, mostly people who make music themselves listen to his stuff. Dont want to focus too much on these examples, but alot of young people who dont make music themselves listen to Animals as Leaders and Periphery. Ofc far from all.. but still more then you expect. But lets ask the same question for music from the past; Do you think people other then guitarists know more then 1 or 2 songs from Hendrix , Zeppelin, Guns n Roses etc? Well i can tell you they avarage know 1 song its alot.
I agree with you on most your points bar a few;
-There is nothing wrong with recording to a metronome. Just because you do so does not make a recording 100% polished/pristine sounding. There will still by minute time differences between the instruments. Recording to a metronome just makes editing more efficient.
-I think you mentioned EQ Mids in a different video but mid users are the minority still.
-Rock doesn't have to be about rebellion to be good. Subject matter can be about anything really.
---------A good song is a good song and the points I mentioned wouldn't change that.
I think its purely lack of creativity these days and that leads to most newer bands having the same stale sound. Instead of wanting to surpass each other they want to just want to be apart of the same bubble.
The problem is people (potential audience) in general these days as well. Back in the golden age of guitar there was a lot less to do. But now we live in a hyper fast digital age where entertainment is delivered instantly in many different ways. Why watch other people get all the glory when you can play a video game and take part in something larger than life yourself? Most younger people just prefer not to leave their house.
Also instruments take time to learn, a lot of time. It's much simpler and less time consuming to pic up a mic and rap. This paired with the instant digital age puts guitar based music at a disadvantage.
The internet and mobile phones have killed live performances and pub gigs.
The art is about making people feel the certain way. There is no good and bad, no right and wrong there are only opinions. That music you dislike brings joy to some people thus it has a right to exist and be respected, those guys fulfilled their duty as artist, whether you like it or not. I highly suggest to look into avant-garde metal, especially the french scene. The whole genre is about searching for new ways of making music. I like to believe that one day some of them will become a new big thing.
P.S. Few songs to check regarding avant-garde metal: Ihsahn - Undercurrent, Give us Barabba - Sadomasokissme , SHINING (NOR): I Won't Forget , Pryapisme - Epic Loon, Thy Catafalque - Oldódó formák a halál titokzatos birodalmáb, Igorrr - cheval, Vulture Industries - The Tower,Diablo Swing Orchestra - Voodoo Mon Amour, Solefald - World Music with Black Edges.
P.P.S. as a fan of industrial/techno metal and NDH I don't agree that we should completely get rid of drum machines in metal :)
Avant-Garde is tough to pull off. A lot of it is surface activity with very little holding it together, and some of it is merely music theory stretched to absurdity- I know that's pretty much how Avant-Garde music is defined, but I wouldn't look to the movement as reviving metal. A lot of this wouldn't receive the technical A-G classification, but definitely tends towards the Avant-Garde, and I dig it:
Atheist - Mother Man: ruclips.net/video/utqWrkVEQvI/видео.html
Demilich - The Faces Right Below the Skin of Earth: ruclips.net/video/_1fbYn4ui20/видео.html
Esker - Ordalie: ruclips.net/video/uz8W5ngEf04/видео.html
Godflesh - Life is Easy: ruclips.net/video/Qu8GftxMmVI/видео.html
Gorguts - The Art Of Sombre Ecstasy: ruclips.net/video/Lspl89ixSds/видео.html
Ras Algethi - The Bride Eternal: ruclips.net/video/MDIg_xDm2G4/видео.html
Septic Flesh - Crescent Moon: ruclips.net/video/XVIWdbRBdzw/видео.html
Skepticism - By Silent Wings: ruclips.net/video/WNUESe3tuAs/видео.html
Timeghoul - The Siege: ruclips.net/video/dLEP_yAi0fE/видео.html
Stupid
It's sad. It really is. Somewhere along the timeline of rock and metal being a guitarist became purely down to being "technically correct" and you are very correct regarding metronomes and tracks, since lots of guitarist these days have come through years of study on guitar and music. This study has taught them all this "style" which covers metal music these days.
You only need to look at Megadeth as an example - the first 3 guitarist of Chris Poland (jazz based guitarist playing metal), Jeff Young and Marty Friedman added there own thing they were incredibly accomplished guitarist but it based upon there own learnings not some university teaching. Then Pitrelli was merely a stand in and live guitarist who didn't really play on the actually album, Chris Poland reappeared for System has Failed and again it was Megadeth of old again (even though it was supposed to be a Mustaine solo album). Then Glen Drover, Chris Broderick, Kiko Loureiro - all in-particular Broderick turned Megadeth in a generic guitar wankery sweeping yawn fest. Listening to Broderick killing all feeling from the incredible Tornado of Souls solo is just saddening, just a note for note play through with zero personality in the playing.
Then there is Metallica - people constantly slate Kirk Hammett or Lars Ulrich for not having "technical" ability - and that's because they grew up just playing and that is what they have always done, they (as you rightly say) didn't grow up having to worry about RUclips or playing "incredibly technical" leads just to impress and get "followers".
You only have to look at the Dimebag clinic video on RUclips to see how someones own self taught ability gives a tone to leads and songs in general that you just do not find in metal these days. On the note of Dimebag and Pantera, I remember going into a local music shop one day on the week of the Vulgar Display of Power release and they were cranking it in the shop and I was just like "SH*T" I need this album and I remember having the very same thoughts hearing the Machine Head debut . . . in that era groups had defined their own tone and sound however I haven't had the same feeling about any albums or groups for a very long time. Death Metal has sadly turned into the mockery of itself with the advent of "Deathcore" and "Technical" Death Metal . . . . playing faster isn't necessarily heavier - ask Obituary :(
It is no wonder these days there is such a following for old bands that are still around along with such excitement for older bands when they reform - sh*t even go and watch the Status Quo Frantic 4 reunion - a band whose early catalogue is criminally over looked in terms of rock.
It comes to something that I'll even though Napalm Death have been around for over 30 years they still come up with the good and I'll take a new ND album over ANY new metal band release these days . . . .
Good shout, I think you elude to the essence of Rock, THAT IS DEAD. Gone are the days of raw talent picking up an instrument, joining others and forming a band. It started dying in the 70's, when Disco's got good and the establishment got involved, Discos destroyed rock n Roll live gigs, there was a good pub scene for a while but that's gone, enter Karaoke. Rock got ridiculed in the early days by snobby musos, a year later their hair was longer and they were rockin, proper trained musicians were now rockin,that killed it. Colleges started courses in all aspects of rock, that killed the essence of rock.If Jimi Hendrix started out now, some college trained muso would tell him, " not bad Jimi, but your use of the diatonic scale was incorrect "
Taking account of all your points the one thing I noted is the nostalgic view of an era without real consideration of time and evolution. The same mindset could be said for Jazz, Blues, Classical all of which at some point in time was the biggest musical movement of its time, does this mean Jazz is dead, Blues is dead, Classical is dead. All of these and many more still have a reserved space in a musical landscape that by far and away now is so vast and diverse that, by at very least acknowledging that the landscape of diversity has exponentially exploded since the heydays of key genres has not killed off any of them it has simply made the nostalgic view of what made them or more specifically the great artists of their time feel forgotten despite the fact they paved the way for everything that followed. Leveraging 20-30 years’ worth of history grab a group of 14-20 year old rock/metal music enthusiasts and ask them what they think of Slayer or Anthrax and 80% of them don’t even know who they are but can repeat line for line the lyrics from any Five Finger Death Punch song, to this group Jeremy Spencer is Keith Moon, the problem is that nostalgic view without considering time and evolution, and acknowledging that the era referred is in the past and new one has emerged and needs nurture structure and adoption for new ways or working combined with technology, this is what needs addressing and where the real problems exist. But of coarse this is just my opinion, that said Gary Moore is still the best guitarist that ever lived………
Think about Gary More. Think about Thin Lizzy. Now who do we have? Good songs are good songs. That’s not nostalgia. It’s well crafted. Well rehearsed.
It's just how you look at guitar heros. People have always looked at music heros as gods. But the world has become smaller after the internet.
Agree with you 100%. Where we are today is product of decisions made by people chasing money for decades and here we are. But, people have been chasing money forever and that's the real driving force behind any endevour, and it wasn't any different in the old days. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow anymore. It takes a team of people working together to produce a great product, but that has to be finaced to some degree in order to allow it to fruition. In the old days it was a big to deal to go see a band, and it was the only way to actually see the band in the flesh. Now you can find it on youtube. So there is no real value to having a venue where that is the only place you can experience it. You can tie a bunch of different factors into that. Watch a Rodney Dangerfield biography, he had 300 places he could perform at that were within driving distance, now there are so many sources of entertainment that you don't have to go anywhere to be entertained. So no outlet, and no motive. I could ramble on forever about this. It's not just the quality of product, and yes I hear the grid, but it really sounds to me like a shitty hard quantized midi file from the 80's with better sounds. Still as terrible as it used to. Tons of great stuff on youtube, that's not real, and missing the human element and that's why it all sucks and nobody cares, because, well, it sucks. And stuff has been "fixed" forever, but at least they were real performances pieced together. And Chappers and his band do a great job in this day and age, so no slight there. And btw, I have produced 688 hours of viewed content on youtube and haven't made one penny. There are 1000's more like me. For a few, they can make a something, maybe even a living, but most people produce stuf that people like that basically has no monetary value to the creator. But people who understand the value of music in our lives will support it in some some way. Music is still an incredible gift given to us human beings.
Yep. Great post.
You are correct about the generic sound of most metal today and the effects of digital recording it has had a negative influence
on modern music being recorded by making bands lazy with the ability to cut and paste bands do not have to have the discipline that was required with
analog recording. With analog you had to play in time without making mistakes and studio time was expensive so you had to deliver so it required you to know the material and perform when the tape was running and their was not the ability to cut and paste to compensate for sloppy playing.The singer did not have auto tune to cover up for the inability to sing in key for the whole song. This also produced bands that could perform live and sound great.
Now with digital recording and each band member being recorded everything is quantized with snap to grid it destroys the groove and adds a sterile robotic feeling it creates an elevator muzak vibe,and then compress everything so that it is as loud as possible robbing the music of it dynamic range
killing all of the light and shade of the recording. Then you add in everyone using the same gear and you get to the place we ended up today Homogenized Metal that is uninspiring and mediocre live performances to a shrinking audience. And thanks for the content that you create and keep up the hard work it is appreciated Owen.
You are 120% correct. Music fucking sucks. I searched high and low across the world to find amazing bands I do find them and ironically enough I find them on RUclips. But they are far and few between. Most of them are in the stoner Rock category. Music is dead for now. People will get back to basics they will not give a shit about RUclips Tube & views and just start jamming again, there will be a resurgence. I am starting to see it at a Grassroots level there are a lot of good bands that nobody knows about that are doing The Grind. Rock is not dead, it's just on life support
it's a simple statement. Guitar based music is not popular music. yes, there are an unfathomable amount of great musicians making music in their basements. guess what... They're not playing arenas. all of the great bands people mention (periphery, Gojira, Animals as Leaders, etc.) and the great guitarists people mention (vai, Satriani, Malmsteen, Govan, etc.) are broke! That's the point. these people aren't selling millions of albums or playing sold out stadiums multiple days in a row. they are amazing, dedicated, virtuoso, they've made it... and they're broke. I can think of literally one guitar based band that is notably successful in mainstream music, (like Led Zepelin, The Who, or any classic rock band) and that's Avenged Sevenfold. comparatively guitar is dead. the modern industry can support One successful band! One. that's a notable change. new bands with amazing guitarists who are broke absolutely exist. but nobody pays for that type of music anymore. the best ways to make money are to give lessons to guitarists or sell guitars. because there are lots of guitarists- but nobody cares.
Hate to ride the fence, but you both have valid points. You aren’t really speaking about the same thing. You might be right that he didn’t watch your video. His response had some valid points, but yeah, he really wasn’t responding to your video. He was responding to the title. That is the risk of a black and white title.
I have thoughts on these issues, but I’ve found that nobody really knows what to do about it. So we are wasting time arguing about what the problem actually is. I am trying to pass the knowledge down. That is part of it, for sure. I’d go back to talking about how to get tones, talking about what is and was right about things at the peak of the art-form. Who cares what is wrong now? We know what it sounds like when it’s right. Jazz guys don’t argue about stuff like this.
They are arguably way worse off than us. They might even be better off because they have NO HOPE of ever being considered cutting edge anymore. They just make music with attention to detail. If you really want to solve this problem, you need to just be yourself and deal with the consequences of that based on the trends of the time. Namely: you might make shit music and get rich and famous, or great music and be broke and anonymous (That can happen. You can be ahead of your time. Alice in Chains was, imho.)
Or any combination of those things.
Nobody has the answer. The answer is out there, but it’s in some timeline’s zeitgeist, not in a “strategy”.
In my opinion, which is pretty worthless.
Cheers.
Thanks man. Good points.
one thing now is that guitarists/musicians who never would have had a chance to expose themselves and their music do to the fact that like 20 years ago you had to move to a major city and get signed to a major label or you were considered amateur and or were never gonna get exposure to masses of eyes and ears all over the globe
I do agree with you on the needed venues, it has been one of my dreams to take a closed down theatre in my area and turn it into a venue for bands to play. I'd even stream it on RUclips.
Mike Foerster yep. I think streaming live music is the future.
To be fair we can call Mastodon as the Eagles of today. They can rip everyone with technical chops but write good songs as well.
Disperse Media They are old school. My age. I talked about them on my other video about the impact of their drummer. Real drums. They have been at it for a loooong time.
I really love how you take all the criticism in a way where you explain it and not complain about it and you're right about guitarist having to worry about things they shouldn't be worrying about like one has to worry about the edit more than the music itself
Vivek Ghag Thanks man.
The problem is everyone is hard as fuck to get along with. So everyone does a solo project.
Jason Wagoner haha. True.
Remember the taxi scene from "This is Spinal Tap"?