Renault Zoe Battery Disassembly - LG Chem Modules - DIY EV Powerwall Solar
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- 22kWh Renault Zoe battery containing LG Chem modules
Unlike some more common LG Chem modules (like the Bolt, Volt and Pacifica modules) there is little information online about these, so I thought I would share what I have learnt to other DIYers.
The disassembly process showed the amazing quality of this critical component. Even down to the finest details you could feel the quality you get from a huge design and manufacture team at an OEM. I'm sure I only scratched the surface of understanding the design choices the manufacturers made.
Let us know what you think, please share any additional information on, or applications of, these modules.
I take no responsibility for any actions you take related to the content of this video. Do not work with high voltage unless properly trained, do not use this video as reference for correct practice or procedure. Also, probably avoid using uninsulated screwdrivers to disassemble batteries...
You can contact me directly on: tomrock166@gmail.com
Battery:
Mass - 279kg (from press release)
Energy - 25.9kWh (maximum, from label on battery)
Voltage - 360V (or 350.4V based of 96s of 3.65V nominal)
Cells - 192 36Ah LiNMC
Configuration - 96s2p (split into 12 modules)
Module:
Mass - 16.4kg
Dimensions - L 373 W 204 H140 mm
Energy - 2.16kWh (maximum)
Voltage - 30V (or 29.2V based of 8s of 3.65V nominal)
Cells - 16 36Ah LiNMC
Configuration - 8s2p / 2p8s
Useful resources:
-Damien Maguire disassembling Zoe battery
• Electric E65 7 Series:...
-E63 Cell Data Sheet (Cells found in 44kWh pack)
endless-sphere...
-AVL Battery Benchmarking (Good general information and cooling information)
cii-resource.co...
-Cell tap fuse datasheet
www.littelfuse...
Very cool video, thank you for sharing it. I also had a Zoe Q210 but I was very unlucky with it. It's HV parts are not well engineered and very sensitive. I heard from a Zoe mechanic that even the HV climate compressor destroyed all HV parts several times in several cases (except the battery, which really seems to be well engineered and makes very less problems). In my case the motor the PEB and the BCB HV parts were damaged. The car had about 80000km, when it happens. It was the third motor! The estimated cost for repairing was 7000-8000€. The Renault garage couldn't tell me in detail what is defect, because of errors on the bus. Today the mechanics can only replace complete parts, not more. That's why I tried it on my own. Firstly I checked the battery, were I found a defect fuse, which you showed in your video. After that I had to charge it in a really dirty way, with a bridge rectifier and a classic light bulb. Then I bought all HV parts from a crashed Zoe, which also is not cheap. In the next step I learned, that it's not possible to simply replace all parts, because they are all VIN coded. They tell you, that's because of protection against theft, but I am sure that's for forcing you to go to a Renault garage. So I disassembled the PEB first and replaced the HV boards. That's what I also did for the BCB. At least I replaced the motor and programmed the new motor parameters with ddt4all. After that the car was okay again. But believe me, it's really not well engineered. If you get problems with it, it will very costly or time consuming and dangerous when you don't know what you are doing. I am always happy about people who share videos like this. They help a lot, when you are in trouble with the car.
Wow that's quite a story! I love to hear when a consumer manages to fix their modern tech, well done. I am impressed with the simple charging method even if slightly rough. Good work reprogramming to overcome issues with VIN coded components, I have never worked with Zoe components outside of the battery but that sounds very interesting
@@TRMotorsports16643 Unfortunately I did not find another way to charge my battery as my BCB was damaged and I was afraid to damage the battery because it was quite empty and I was at the beginning of all.
In addition, I was sure not to damage the battery, because the light bulb operates as a very weak fuse, voltage divider/resistor. The light bulb controls everything, except the charging state.
Actually, I worked with two light bulbs in series. This makes charging very slow, but it was okay to me and I was sure not to overcharge the battery quickly.
I am not sure, but I think that the battery had 50% after about one week of charging.
As this procedure is seriously dangerous, I have proceeded very precisely. Firstly I prepared a further service plug: I replaced the fuse and add two wires.
The wires must be of good quality and fixed in an isolated box, as they always have over 300V DC.
A mistake could fatally injure, kill someone, or burn everything down. This plug allows me to connect directly and safely to the battery.
In the next step, I connected this system to the 400V public grid. After a few hours, I saw, that the battery gets fuller because the light bulbs glowed brighter/voltage increases.
Overall the time I had to ensure, that nobody could get close to the car.
@@TRMotorsports16643 Have you bms, electrical cables, box and other things without battery cells of course ? I would like to buy it. How much is it ?
@@johnydeep1094 Hello, please email me. Email is in description
That’s a crazy story!
Even for a battery that's considered the simplest of the bunch (bar the leaf's, obviously), there still a significant amount of engineering there! You can see why those things are so expensive.
Top quality battery there. Lots of good engineering. Love that it has a form of active cooling too!
The best explanation of the ZOE battery I've seen yet. Thank you!
Very interesting. I am really interested on how the 41 kWh battery looks inside and how the battery heating works.
Thanks for the video!
I believe the larger batteries are very similar inside, and even use modeles of the same (or very similar) form factor. Amazing that they fit nearly double the energy in the same case! The AVL resource I have linked in other comments provides some basic info on the cooling and heating
Great job, congratulations!!
Hey thanks for the demonstration! Very instructive. I am planning to by a Zoe and once it is short in km I'll use the battery to power my house :p
30V is not very convient so I'll have to find a way to rize the voltage...
Wish I knew you were doing this! Would of LOVED to film it!
Nice video, one of my cells on a 2017 40kW is faulty and Renault are repairing it.
How can you know which battery is to replace??
2 years ago I had the reverse situation of what you are in with this battery.
I have bought broken Renault Kangoo Z.E without battery, it was used by post of France but they decommissioned it and removed the batteries.
Back then I couldn't find any used battery for it and also could not find any solution on internet for it to make it run on diy battery with its original controller.
So I decided Im going to controller swap this thing with some off the shelf controller.
I have built 16kwh 40s battery from some 10s modules I sourced before. I chose 40s because high voltage controllers are extremely expensive, also had to install hall sensors to motor to make it compatible with new controller.
Car is not perfect, its slower than it was originally but its usable for in town driving.
Love the ingenuity, were the 10s modules the ones from the Chrysler Pacifica? With the 2 BMS plug on opposite sides?
@@TRMotorsports16643 No Chryslers here in Europe but we have a lot of e bikes and electro scooters. I have found used 4kwh packs from some not to be electric scooter production that was cancelled. So there ware truckloads of this 10s modules without bms but with balance leads, bought as many as I could afford and the rest of those ware bought by other ev group members.
@@ACAGT Excellent. I'm in the UK so no Chrysler's or and very few electric scooters :) Good stuff
@@TRMotorsports16643 😁
Did you spoof the CAN communication in order to get it working?
Really cool video! As a ZOE driver I'm very interested in where the battery sits and how it works.
I was hoping for a bit more information about the cell cooling, but this video is still a very nice one as it as 😃
Holy woah, that was a delightfully information-dense video! 👌🏼 I learned a load; thanks 🥳
many thanks for all information👏
Thank You!
Excellent teardown, thank you. I've just come into ownership of a broken Zoe (traction motor is dead) and wondering if the batteries could be used for extra solar buffer in my campervan. I think it probably could be possible, but 360v x 275A is a scary amount of power for me,
Thank you for the explanation. Learned a lot.
Excellent video. You've taught me a great deal. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing. Good, clear video.
I really want to know how the cooling system of this battery is working. As far as I know it has a air cooling system. But how is it working? Where is it located? Any filter change required? Etc
Pleasure to watch!
Well prepared, well presented, thank you.
Shame you didnt do more on this, I'm currently splitting a Hyundai 2020 Ioniq pack and trying to disassemble is a challenge but i intend on making 7 x 48v packs from the 44kw pack.
To me the Zoe battery and electric car components look pretty well engineered.
Thank you for posting this information, very interesting to me. 👍
Left a sub and hope for more to come.
Yup, nice to take apart too. You're welcome, more DIY EV content will be on its way
GripSeal G70 series are extermal connectors , which are widely applicable to various cooling-water tube.
Very cool to see the inside of this battery. Could you also give a closer look to the balancer system and stuff around it? Thank you :)
Hi Daniel, it is difficult to shoot another video but I can let you know some details. There are two wiring harnesses that run on the outside of case, one for the right 6 and one for the left 6 modules. The left harness also has plugs for the contactors, current sensor, service switch and data connector. The BMS is a box approximately A4 paper size and 25mm thick. There is a bank of 6 sockets to take the cell tap wires with 172 pins total (2*40, 2*32, 2*14) Not all the pins are in use. There is then another 24 pin plug that the left harness attaches to for the current sensor etc. All of the plugs are TE Connectivity components I believe part of the TH/.025 connector series. Interestingly I understand these are the same as on the Orion BMS. If you would like photos, email me :)
Something interesting to note, the 24 pin plug uses all gold plated pins where as the cell tap plugs use a mixture of gold and tinned pins. I am not very familiar with the standards for these connectors
@@TRMotorsports16643 This sounds very easy inside. I emailed you for pictures :)
this video is great! Thank you!
excellent work !
Visually it seems that the Twizy used the same cells but in a 2S3P configuration.
Correct the modules look very similar and are in that cell configuration, but the cells are in fact a bit "shorter". Not sure the difference in capacity, but I actually bought a couple of modules that were over discharged and beyond saving. I plan on doing a brief video tearing one apart at some point
Nice work.
Thanks
It's good to see you're doing a classic car ev conversion, what car are you doing? I've got a Mk3 Spitfire that I'm considering converting. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Triumph Dolomite I have restored and am converting. Will be sharing the details once complete :)
Great video, I’m curious if you have any information on the max current draw of these cells or they type of individual pouch cells. I’m curious if they are they same pouch cells as in the Chrysler Pacifica battery modules just in a different configuration. If so this should be a very capable pack for ev conversions.
Thank you.
-The are not the same as the cells in the Pacifica modules (Zoe: 36Ah Pacifica: 44Ah)
-I would imagine the cells from a 22kWh Zoe have slightly lower but similar maximum discharge current. Cooling would be a limiting factor, are not as easy to cool as the Pacifica modules
-A leaked LG Chem data sheet for the 44kWh Zoe cells is readily available online (google "E63 cell data sheet") which details current limits
-I think the modules are excellent for EV conversions, the 2p8s configuration is much better suited (compared to the Pacifica 1p16s) for lower voltage (~120V) conversions given it allows fewer parallel strings for a given capacity
Hope this helps
@@TRMotorsports16643 This helped me immensely, thanks a mill. Wish you the all best with your conversion, thanks again!
@@TRMotorsports16643 If I understand it correctly , what you mean is that its just a smaller fuel tank but, the same octane value, Wright?? If so, It could drive Tesla S motor wright?? By the ways, Great sharing VDO!
Congratulations for such amazing video! I am confused about the colling sistem in ZOE Batteries along the different models. Is there any inormation to share? Thanks!
Thanks for this, great work, you don't see much info on the Zoe batteries. Could you put the physical dimensions of the LG Module block in the description. Thanks
Cheers Joe, it does feel like there's very little information on these. If you pause at the end of the video, I believe they are on the piece of lined paper. I'll also add that to the description :)
great movie.
do you know if it is possible to replace the whole battery with another set of self-made cells? If zoe gets the right voltage it will work. or maybe there is some electronics in the battery that is necessary and cannot be omitted. I am asking because there are a lot of cars without a battery and the battery could be organized on your own, at least 10kw to work, it would be enough.
Is there a BMS for this battery? I'm thinking to add it to my solar setup for getting partly off grid.
Did you find anything meanwhile ?
Excellent and concise video. Thank you!
Would anyone happen to have a 3D model of the battery module or a set of the dimensions, so that I can render my own?
Hi Jasper, you're welcome. I have actually made a model of the module myself in Solidworks. If you send me an email (in description), I can provide the model and associated files.
@@TRMotorsports16643 I'm interested inif you have started you conversion of this ev for your classic car ..I'd would like to do the same .
Great walk through! 👍
I wonder, is there some standard to the battery interfaces? Could you then use it as is to power a house solar array without dismantling it, using the existing bmc & cooling?
Thank you, hardware wise that seems very possible. As far as I know all the communication is CAN based, so someone skilled in CAN spoofing could perhaps control the unit
Thanks for this video! I was finally able to get to know Zoe's battery!
Do you have a datasheet for the cells?
Are you planning any upgrade on the battery pack in the future?
Glad you enjoyed it, I do not. I am planning to use the batteries in a conversion project
@@TRMotorsports16643 what type of conversion?
Loved this, my question is, when a battery loses power and it drops by about 1% efficiency per year they say. Is this a result of degradation over all cells of the battery pack or one or two individual cells affecting the pack performance overall ?. My reason for this question is, if it’s one cell causing the problem then it’s worth pulling and replacing but what is the cost for a Renault owner ?, thanks.
Thanks for sharing!
Are the modules sitting on a cooling/heating grid?
Good luck on your ev conversion👍
Thank you. Air enters through the middle "chimney" hole, through the gaps between the individual cell pairs as well as above and below the modules and then returns around the sides of the pack through the 2 side chimney holes. The temperature of this air is controlled by a unit on the car. AVL produced a series of slides that give some more information on this: cii-resource.com/cet/AABE-03-17/Presentations/BMGT/Prochazka_Wenzel.pdf
@@TRMotorsports16643 thanks for the slides. Seems to have been designed for quick swap ability with the huge alignment pins on the sides
Hello! Thanks for the great video. My Renault Zoe Year Model 2019, has a bad Bearing in the Electric Motor, which makes a bad sound. And I get no help from Renault. And not by my insurance company either. My only option is to, with the help of a friend who has a BilLyft, pick out the electric motor ourselves. But I would need some help from you. If you could please tell me how to do when I want to do a Lockout on my Renault Zoe. I know that you should start by turning off everything in the car's dashboard, such as Scheduled Charging. And Timed heating of the car. And you must detach the minus pole of the 12 Volt battery. And then wait for at least 5 minutes. Then you have to remove the 400 Volt fuse which is under the car mat by the right front seat. Then you have to make a control measurement somewhere in the engine compartment. Under an aluminum cover. I don't know more about this. Please. Can you give me information so that I can safely and properly turn off all 400 Volt power to the Car Engine. Thanks! From Tommy Bertilsson from Sweden
goood stuff bro
감사합니다
Great viedo. very nice and helpfull. I wonder why is the cell weight of all the batteries 180kg and the weight of the whole battery is 290. Is the base of it so heavy or the parts? What do you think?
Hi, how's the Dolomite conversion going? I just subscribed to check out your later build videos but didn't find any. I know these things don't always go to plan. I've been 'planning' (read: 'dreaming of') an EV build since about 2009. I had a Reliant Kitten but got sidetracked and sold it. I've now started to get back on track with a Fiat Panda (classic slabside model) but the world has moved on; I was originally looking at 72v DC using an Agni 95r (just about enough for the lightweight Reliant) but now looking at twin Agnis at 144v DC. I know everyone's going AC now but I've got the motors so might as well use them. Looks like the Zoe modules would be the way to go (maybe 5 modules @150v). Hope to see progress on yours soon👍
thank you for this video, were you able to see the cells in the modules? I can't find their reference. Thanks
Please can you show how to change the brake fluid on the Electric car Renault Zoe Year model 2019. Which fault code reader works for this Electric car. It's a Renault, so I'm wondering if the Can clip won't work for this car? Thanks! From Tommy Bertilsson from Sweden
Does the battery have anything like a pyro fuse on it? for breaking in a crash?
Hi. What about useful internal size for alternative modules replacement. Length width height
Hi, I have a zoe ze50 R135, can you give an opinion where could I safely tap the HV bus, to connect an extra battery pack, or an ultracapacitor pack... the battery suffers a lot with spikes off power output I live in a mountain area so I have much hills to overcome, the total amount off regen it's not capable off recovering what you spent on the same hill it's about 30 to 35% recovery... with a extra pack the objective is to reduce the spikes.... so I can spare the mai battery and save at least 10 to 15% energy from main pack...
Well done...
Do you think it's possible to recycle the battery and use it for storage with solar panels?
what u want to do with this battery? (solar storage?)
Any new 22kwh for sale? For export to Malaysia (KL). May need five pieces if price is right
Hi is it hard to remake them into 7s?
Hi, nice video, conrats do you know the exact location of the TCU unit?
Hello, I do not, but it is not in the battery.
@@TRMotorsports16643 I read that is behind the rlink radio...
I know now ;)
Do you have information about the battery data connection pinout of 22kw battery?
Do you now what kind of thermistor (NTC resistance at room temperature) is installed within the modules?
Hello. It is a 10k but I do not know what beta value
@@TRMotorsports16643 thanks! That info is helping a lot.
Hi, did you measure the size of the interconnects between the modules? Also, I assume they are plated copper? Thanks, Nigel
Hello, I did not measure, they were tin plated copper in an injection moulded insulation piece which held the terminal screws in place. I'd guess about 2*15mm, but can't really remember
Do you know what kind of bolts are used to seal the lower and upper part of the casing? And any idea of how much bolts there are? And what type of bolts are used for the modules?
Apologies for the delay, if you still need to know this feel free to email me and I will attach photos of the bolts with dimensions
Hello.nice job.can you tell me if there are 16 cells type 18650 in paralel?.thks
Hello, thank you, no. They are pouch cells (flat) of capacity 36Ah in 2p8s. 18650 are very different and are cylindrical cells (much smaller) of capacity approx 3.5Ah
@@TRMotorsports16643 so it is 45 packets of 8s and 2 p do you think o can update with 18650 batterys
No info on cooling:-(
how can u wire them to what BMS? use existing cables with new bms or completely dismantle modules to sort out dead cells and replace them? cheers!
Hello. I spliced the old harness from the Renault Zoe into the an Orion BMS 2 harness. It is a nice tidy solution, video to come in the next couple of months. There are no dead cells, the modules are in good condition :)
@@TRMotorsports16643 2nd life though?
Hi, what did u do with the battery that you disconnected?
You have in title of this video: Powerwall for PV
I'm particularcly interested in cooling - so the air passes in/out only through one hole? How is it circulated through the battery?
They don't seem to have much cooling or heating. Air goes in the centre hole, through the centre channel of the two battery banks and flows past the aluminium (?) sides of the modules and them returns to the front of the pack along the outside of the pack. This link is a great resource that illustrates this: cii-resource.com/cet/AABE-03-17/Presentations/BMGT/Prochazka_Wenzel.pdf
@@TRMotorsports16643 thanks, that's really a great resource! :)
@@electricwhirl5175 As in: the battery itself doesn't have much. On top of the battery is a unit in the car containing a fan block, and an evaporator hooked to the AC system. In some models (and all ZE50 models) it also contains a small PTC heater. So it can heat, do nothing, cool passively (just ambient air blowing) and actively (cooled air). That part too is pretty nifty from a control point of view and well engineered.
@@JWM-Meijer thanks for the explanation.
I understand that this is not so easy to do as might sound - just a tube of air, but I think it could be have been implemented in VW eUP/eGolf or Leaf. E.g, Mitsubishi iMiev has cooling with AC which help a lot to prevent rapidgating.
@@electricwhirl5175 Absolutely. A battery the size to power a car needs decent thermal management. It can be done in different ways of course and only fanboys state their preferred method is the only one. If you look closely at the video you can see the air channels between the cells. And the airflow is from the center channel to the two outside channels, therefor three holes in the "chimney" part of the battery. Control is even more complex. When to warm up? Or when rapid charging, cooling when the temperature goes up it might be too late as there is more dissipation than (possibly uneven) cooling capacity, so it could make sense to pre-emptively cool even when the battery is at say 15C. It's absolutely a game of trade-offs and clever predictions.
the gray box is a relay that is triggered by 12V to switch on or off the 400V battery ruclips.net/video/YU_qfD582Sk/видео.html
Is there any way to disassemble to the cell ?
You could take lift the cells out of a 2p8s module, and potentially cut the cell tab connections to get the the individual pouch cells. Would be a bit difficult to do this without damaging the cells.
Thank you very much ! How many kWh capacity is a single module ? It is for a energy storage project.
@@yanncousin5883 2.16kWh per module, I have listed more information in the description. I am using them for a electric car conversion
@@TRMotorsports16643 thanks for sharing this video, still useful 2 years later! Do you know if the pouch cell pairs are bonded together, eg with self-adhesive foam pads? Looking to build a 96s1p pack from these cells, but can only do so if it is possible to separate the cell pairs.
Cul video
Working with 360v seams risky
This thing is very disturbing. One mistake and you have to throw the car away. ❌
Like when you throw a burning into the gas tank, just one mistake and you have to write off the whole car
learn that fucking RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Excellent video keep that way,
I was looking for the price for new battery for the renault zoe 2016y. on the web but only saying you can rent the battery bla bla bla..... I went to the renault dealer in my city and they was very unpleasant they asked me how much you are prepared to pay.
So if anyone knows the price of the battery for Renault Zoe please write in the comment or reply to me