Second update: I did some more research on the Safety Data Sheet that comes up from the part number/QR code on the cells. At least two of the chemicals listed are liquid, organic solvents, normally used as electrolyte in lithium ion batteries. So...
@@vadimus2007 I was JUST looking for his video in an attempt to link him this one. I'm with you, in the 'used to respect'. He definitely should've known not to take something like this at face value, and do a breakdown. At the VERY least, China products haven't been the most honest and reliable. Added to a company there claiming to basically be the first out of the gate w/ such a technology, and then just accepting it and promoting it to his large audience.
@@vadimus2007Hi vadimus, I'm vladimus😂. You're saying he used to be more respectable? All I've seen from him are marketing slides from companies that don't have a viable product and are looking for more VC funding.
@@edb75001 Matt is engaging enough, great with smart home tech but I think he should have stayed away from more technical stuff like solid state batteries. His review was simplistic at best, missing the academic rigour necessary when you review a "revolutionary" product that is more marketing than substance. There were statements like "solid state batteries stop dendrites from forming" listed as an advantage when one of the major challenges with solid state batteries has been the expansion and contraction causing cracking in both the electrodes and the solid electrolyte and, you guessed it... dendrites forming and short circuiting the battery. He seems to be more about style and the user interface than the nuts and bolts so you can see why the Yoshino batt appealed to him.
He did acknowledge (week ago) the claims in his comments that these batteries aren't true solid state cells. He's reached out to the company and someone else who did an analysis of the cells and says they aren't solid state. He said he may do some kind of follow up, depending on what he finds out. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. On a podcast, he did say that Yoshino supposedly sent him safety testing data and videos. That's very interesting. I have to imagine they told him not to share them, because he didn't show them in his video, that I can remember. And it's also interesting, because I exchanged multiple emails with Yoshino about safety testing and such, and they wouldn't tell me anything, lol. And when I presented some things and asked if their batteries were semi-solid state, they just ghosted me. Which, whatever, I'm nobody. But it's funny that they are selective about where they share the data.
Agreed, it seemed pretty bizarre watching the Matt Ferrell video. I was really surprised there was no proof on such a bold claim. If solid state is going to be as great as some claim, I'm sure it would have made more than just a product review video.
Matt Ferrell is an extremely great channel to know about quackery and scams. If you see it featured in there there is about 95% of probabilities of being a scam, quackery, uber-overhyped tech that is not really feasible.
Update. I did look into that battery data sheet I found and it does seem to trace back to a Chinese company that claims to be making solid state batteries. So it's possible that the manufacturer of the cells is also claiming they are "solid state" batteries. I think they are more like semi-solid state. But at this point, I don't know if it matters. The stated watt hours per kilogram are roughly in line with typical lithium ion batteries, the Yoshino power stations charge slower than the competition, and clearly the batteries can and will catch fire in the right circumstances. So I'm not sure what kind of revolution their "solid state batteries" are. But I'm always happy to be corrected. So if anyone finds any contrary info, please share it. And in case anyone was wondering if smoke and fire necessarily means Yoshino are lying; here are some quotes from their website: _"Nail Penetration Test The nail penetration test evaluates lithium-ion battery safety by puncturing to simulate damage and monitor reactions. Yoshino solid-state batteries did not display any serious reactions in comparison to prior lithium-ion models that displayed smoke or fire." "Traditional Lithium-ion batteries pose dangerous potential for combustion due to their use of volatile liquid electrolytes, which can easily be exposed to air and ignite. On the other hand, solid-state batteries utilize nonflammable solid electrolytes - meaning even if they get hot from overcharging or current load issues, there is no risk of a fire occurring." "Another significant benefit of solid-state batteries is their safety compared to other rechargeable cells. Since they don't contain the sameany liquid components or combustible materials"_ So they say in multiple places that their batteries contain no flammable materials, and won't smoke or catch fire when damaged. Just saying.
You should test another cell to see if they swell up like a pillow when overcharged- classic pouch cell behavior. 5v from a 1A or lower USB charger , fed straight into the cell . When they received the cells from the manufacturer they should have immediately recognized them as normal pouch cells , more or less. There have been some advancements with safer pouch cell separators. The manufacturer may have attempted to rip off this technology pattented by stanley blackNdecker and employed in dewalt powerstack pouch-cell tool batteries...
I don't think you should fall for any of the BS and be prepared to call these cells Semi-Solid State. They're either Solid State or not. A Flying Squirrel is not a semi-bird.
Seriously? Can you not read your own damn post? Solo State batteries are not at risk of bursting into flames when they are overcharged or if there are load issues, they claimed nothing about being punctured. Nice twisting of words though.
@@dribz3b29 They did mention that there was no smoke or fire when penetrated, unlike other batteries. But clearly they do smoke and can catch fire when damaged. I admit my damage was a bit extreme, but it's a questionable claim at the very least. Also, the other quotes were pointing out that they say they contain no flammable materials. And yet, the safety data sheet lists two different, liquid, organic solvents. My test was a bit extreme, and they certainly are more stable than some other battery types. But their claims are pretty extreme too, and I think they are not honest or maybe simply unaware that their battery cells do, in fact, contain volatile, liquid electrolytes, if only in relatively small amounts. I think this makes them firmly fall into the category of semi-solid state or hybrid cells. That's fine, but they should just be honest and open about that.
As per your first shot penetration it does not lead to fire, probably did not short out properly , this result can possibly be replicated under controlled conditions for a biased test result . It only needs to survive it once and u golden for a good boy sticker from CE
VINDICATION!!! I seriously considered getting One of these and something didn't seem right. I researched the company and I think at the time they were claiming that they made it in California. I found the same address and knew right away that there was no way a battery factory could be in that building. Both the size of the space that they rented and the fact that they didn't need any enhanced air handling equipment for manufacturing a battery. It made no sense that the major manufacturers weren't making solid state batteries and that the terms they used to describe their batteries only lead to dead ends. Thank you for definitely exposing this scam
Thanks for the exposé! You've saved me (and perhaps many others) a lot of money. Even the name Yoshino connotes a Japanese company, as opposed to a Chinese one. I have nothing against Chinese tech or companies. I even lived in China for a while 30 years ago. There are many very high standard enterprises there, as well as many innovative technologies. There are also many disreputable ones ... like anywhere.
Yeah, once in a while someone will make a comment along the lines of "what do you expect from a Chinese company?" Well, there are plenty of Chinese companies that are reputable and make good, well-regarded products. The only reason I even pointed it out is because they make a point on their website of saying "Designed in the US" and they say the batteries are "Japanese technology." So people were understandably claiming it was a US company or a Japanese company. They're not. Not sure where their US design team is. Maybe in that warehouse, lol. Ultimately, it's just the marketing hype and slippery terms they use that made me a little fired up at the end and call them liars.
According to the 3.72V printed on the battery pouch, it is Lithium Polymer battery. These batteries are a type of rechargeable battery that use a polymer electrolyte instead of a liquid electrolyte. LiPo batteries are sensitive to overcharging, over-discharging, and physical damage, which can lead to swelling, leakage, or even fires.
Yup, not solid state. I even did more research into the chemicals listed on the SDS, and at least two of them are listed as liquid, organic solvents (probably absorbed into the polymer). There are also multiple polymers listed.
Lipo? If so, that's much worse than standard lio-ion. Lipos are typically restricted to RC hobbies and other less "consumer-friendly" duties due to their higher volititly.
You can't necessarily tell the precise battery chemistry just from looking at the voltage. And "lithium polymer" batteries aren't actually a different thing than "lithium ion" batteries anyway. Many batteries everybody thinks of as "lithium ion" (which have a variety of other voltages) actually do use polymer-based electrolytes too. "Lithium polymer" is really more a marketing term, not a well-defined technical category anyway. But it is also theoretically possible that somebody might have created solid-state batteries with a nominal cell electric potential of 3.72V (or something close) too. There is nothing we really know that says that _couldn't_ necessarily happen. Did they actually do that in this case? Based on the other stuff from this video, I think it's pretty clear they actually didn't, but still, the nominal voltage by itself doesn't really tell you anything one way or another in this regard.
The issue with li-poly batteries is that they are sealed and if anything goes wrong (it always can), excess gas has nowhere to go, unlike the way they produce 18650 and other cylindrical batteries. Usually you can keep on using cylindrical batteries no problem even after such things happen, but it's not recommended
you saved me money i was thinking about buying that exact model after ! i saw a few " reviews" but neither went all the way and opened it up and i wasn't going to commit before knowing for sure because i suspected this very thing
Being still a small channel ,you likely put your own moola into this test, But even if u didn't you were still willing to destroy it for science and consumer truths...RESPECT!!
I watched Matt Ferrell's video and I said in the comments at the time that I doubted very much they were solid state cells as I just wasn't seeing the advantages in the specs. Namely 500Wh / kg at a minimum. I hypothesised that they might be semi solid state at best. Because plenty of companies have working semi solid state batteries but the big players working on solid state are close (Samsung) but they won't be in production for a couple of years and are expecting the product to be much more expensive than traditional Li Ion. It appears at best they've obfuscated about the nail penetration test - at worst they've lied. PS the reason the first arrow didn't cause a fire was there was no metal left in the battery to short it. If you do it with an actual metal nail I think you'd see an instant reaction. Whatever - it's less safe than LiFePO4.
Him comparing the weight of the entire unit to other power boxes with completely different capacities and features in order to prove the batteries were lighter was peak Matt Ferrell.
Yeah! Use a pneumatic nail gun in a home made fixture that you can fire it from a distance. That would definitely disprove the nail test certification they claim.
I did a lot of battery work in the RC world about 10 years ago. Learned a lot making the RC Flight Source App. Organic solvents can also be solids. Your typical LiPo battery has a gel electrolyte. They've struggled to get the solid polymer electrolytes to have good ion transfer, which is why we haven't seen solid state batteries on the market. You'll have to discharge a cell fully and pull apart the sheets to see what is inside. The company making these batteries should also know better than to claim safety when they have spontaneously combustible materials such as cobalt and manganese. The only possible claim to safety would be if it has an actual solid electrolyte that would stop dendrite formation. Solid state batteries aren't inherently safer just because of the electrolyte. Even solid electrolytes can be flammable. They ideally would just have a higher C rating and lifetime recharge to start. Solid state electrolytes can possibly allow the batteries to charge to higher capacities by pushing the cathode to it's maximum without fear of dendrite formation. NCM batteries are just as unsafe if not more unsafe than an NMC battery when exposed to a puncture, which would bridge the anode and cathode sparking a runaway thermal reaction. Clearly their marketing department and management know nothing about their products and made false safety claims. If you want better puncture safety, the chemistries you want are LiFePo or LTO. Their cathode chemistries don't use manganese or cobalt and thus have a lower thermal runaway chance. Safety and high capacity won't come until probably the anode-free battery era.
The Undecided channel has been giving me an icky feeling for a while now, and his video about this product really pushed my opinion of it from a tech channel to just fluff and an influencer. Thanks for validating my intuition on this with some responsible investigation.
Good bust man. When a chinese company is selling something that basically doesnt exist , you know it's fake. Reminds me of the 'TrustFire' 9000 mAH 18650's...
I was also a victim of some of those Trustfire cells. My first experience with counterfeit goods was on vacation in Thailand in the early 90's. At the local open air market you could find shoes with labels that read "beware of frakes". I even bought a Creedence Clearwater Revival cassette tape including such hits as: RUN THROUGH THE JUNGER, UP AROUND THE BAND and WHOSE STOP THE RAIN.
@@skipondowntheroad5833 "frakes" that's hilarious! yeah i bought a 4 pack of TrustFire 18650's. They were so light I carefully opened one up and found a tiny 14500 cell inside the can, with some kind of fake sand to fill the space. they tested around 500mAh actual capacity and had terrible voltage sag when discharging anywhere above two or three hundred milliamps. Beyond terrible!!
I have a Fossibot power station and when I asked if it was UL certified, they sent me the entire UL test report..... It's been running as a UPS (8ms switching time) for a year, no issues.
Thank you! You just earned 7 subs…. We’re a bunch of firefighters who were anxiously awaiting a solid state battery solution from an AMERICAN company. Our primary use is for powering/charging 2-way radio gear and drone batteries in the field. We specifically avoided the newly released DJI Power unit(s) for those reasons. With 11 vehicles to equip (replacing very old Jackery units), your work saved us a small fortune. Thanks again!
@@Black-Villain I am no experat at all.. but my guess is having a technology that doesnt blow up when overheated is an advantage when operated near major sources of heat. Lithium Ion explodes. Solid state should not. Firemen work around sources of heat!!?
@@dalmatianlife But we already have very safe cells in LiFePO4. It's ignition point is so much higher that provided you stick with either the traditional cylindrical cells (safest because the lowest amount of energy per cell) or the aluminium case cells they heat up when penetrated but don't normally catch fire. The pouch cells are different - they don't have any pressure relief system so they tend to spew electrolyte everywhere when they burst and they can catch fire. I'd imagine if they are replacing old Jackery's they are not LiFe. DJI make some of the best drones but I don't know about their power electronics. I'd trust BYD and CATL though for the actual batteries.
@@Black-Villain sorry. I just typed a small novel worth of info. When i went to post it, RUclips gave me a login window and erased it all. I have to run, but in a few lines: Bottom line … we’ve attended quite a few lithium battery seminars and courses over the past few years.. The threat potential is extremely high and applies to both lithium ion and lithium iron phosphate type batteries. The batteries contain both the fuel and oxygen (oxidizer) required for combustion. The heat/flames of a thermal runaway fire is just incredible and there is also a huge hazard when gases are released, especially in a confined space environment. A friend and fellow USAR teammate is a FDNY Battalion Chief and routinely brings stories, photos, and videos of horrific fires, mostly in high-rise apartment buildings. They are mostly caused by batteries in e-bikes, scooters, and other conveyances like the one-wheeled device that looks sort of like a skateboard. These fires are nearly impossible to extinguish. The goal is to pour enough water on the fire to prevent spread to other batteries and other flammable , as the fire continues to burn until the “fuel” is depleted . The worst danger, but has only happened once or twice in the past few years, is elevator fires. There was a recent horrific fire in elevator in China. I believe there’s a censored video on RUclips, but the entire unedited/unblurred video on the “Fire Engineering” site. Even the smallest battery can result in the elevator car turning into an oven or kiln. We all carry water fire extinguishers used for “Class A” fires (combustible paper & wood, etc.,) and dry chem fire extinguishers for “Class B” (flamaable liquids) and “Class C” (electrical) fires. All are totally useless when attempting to combat a lithium battery fire. The FDNY has a specialized “Purple K” unit, consisting of several pieces of apparatus and specially trained firefighters, it carries large tanks of “Purple K” firefighting agent. It’s quite pricey, requires special handling and training, and was developed for and used on flammable liquids. New York has a massive number of underground, electrical transformer of vaults. When an arcc fire or similar terrifying event occurs in these, their “go to” is to dispatch the “purple k” unit to dump in enough agent to quench the arcing and fire. (surprisingly to the EE’s, electricians and hobbyists out there, if the event is large enough to affect surrounding structures or poses a life safety hazardthey will sometimes use water in an attempt to fill the vault until the Purple-K unit arrives. I once witnessed this during a “ride along” back in the 1990’s. They will charge a SMALL diameter hose line with water and, from a distance of 30-50’ or more, will keep the nozzle in contact with the ground. They’ll aim the water stream along the concrete or pavement towards the vault etrance (usually a rectangle heavy steel grate on the sidewalk - kinda looks like a subway ventilation grate) OR a manhole with removable cover. It’s not too effective & often causes damage though the damage is already done by that time. The Purple k agent works extremely well, but create a huge mess and requires cleanup, etc.. Guess what? “Purple K” it’s not much more effective than just plain water when trying to fight a substantial lithium battery fire, Like a lithium battery “bank” used as power back up in a home or commercial environment. Sorry…. This ended up being a messy post and went all over the place. The primary reason for trying to get away from the very power dense lithium battery use for us, which has actually been incredible for all of our equipment, especially our portable radios…. Is the threat indicated above. Most of our power tools are now lithium battery powered, we even have a battery powered “jaws of life“ extrication tool for hard to access areas, etc. But, our portable radios have $300-400 intrinsically safe battery packs (radios are $10-12,000 Motorola APX 8K) that have undergone extreme testing for safety. Punctures are still a risk. But, our 4 watt UHF portable radio life has gone from 2-4 hour max use (nicad batteries / heavy duty cycle) to slightly longer nimh… To 12+ HOURS with lithium-ion batteries. If used properly and the batteries and tools are constructed for use in the type of environment used, the power density in lithium batteries is a real game changer. we just want to remain as safe as possible, especially considering you tend to handle equipment, harshly when operating quickly when lives are at stake. Until we have a better technology, I guess we’ll be sticking with lithium and educating all of the users unproper use + storage, etc. Thanks!
Good work exposing their lies! This can't be legal, can it? I wonder what a lawyer would say. At the very least ask them to return your money, but they should get sued as well. It's dangerous giving customers false information about the safety of the packs. What if someone buys them specifically because they think punctures won't lead to fires, and then use it in an unsafe environment due to the company's deception.
I doubt anything legal can be done. Even if someone could prove intent on the part of the company and not just "creative marketing" or whatever, it's a Chinese company. I seriously doubt any legal action could be taken against them.
Maybe its not your intention, but this a really crazy take down of matt farrell to the point where he seems to be negligent in making that video on yoshino solid state batteries. The battery part number being a lith ion battery is wild. Then the diagram of a lithium ion staring him straight in the face when buying the product. Jeez he don't seem that smart after all.
Honestly, his video was part of what inspired me to make this one, but I didn't mean it as a direct critique. In his defense, he did update his description to say that he's going to look more into it since people in his comments have been saying they aren't solid state batteries. He said that two weeks ago. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. I looked over the SDS for that part number again, and all it says is "lithium ion battery." Technically, a solid state battery could still be called a lithium ion battery, so it isn't necessarily proof of anything. But the fact that they seem to behave exactly like any old lithium ion/polymer battery is the kicker for me. At this point, if Yoshino argue that they can be defined as "solid state" then I'd say it's a distinction with no difference. The stated watt hours per kilogram are right in line with standard lithium ion batteries. They charge slower than most competitive power stations, and as shown in this video, they absolutely can still violently vent and catch fire, just like standard lithium batteries. So I'm not seeing a single one of the advantages stated by Yoshino to actually bear out.
I suspect the batteries in the Yoshino would be defined as "semi-solid-state." The graphic on their website is almost showing a solid state battery, with no "separator" between the two electrodes, but from everything I've read, organic solvent is absorbed into some kind of substrate in semi-solid-state batteries. That is what I brought up in my last email to Yoshino, and asked if they were semi-solid-state batteries, and they never responded.
A Chinese manufacturing lying about their product,? Oh my god? Who would have thunk it. Yeah they lie through their teeth and they don't care, what are you going to do? You can return the item but it's not going to stop them from ripping off the next guy, so, they're overpriced they lie through their teeth hopefully this will get out quickly and they will fade from the marketplace with the warehouse full of unsellable batteries. Thanks for review it was a very informative and well thought out
OMG! I am so shocked, a chinese company lying. Good review. I would pass just because the overload lockout is too touchy, oh, that, and comparable other brands, with pathetic old school not solid state li-ion batteries are less than half the price. That new fangled technology, solid state disguised as li-ion, guess that costs extra. 🙂
I also tore this down and nicked the battery foil, electrolyte leaked out. Not sure what solid state means but liquid electrolyte is in the cells. I have to say the build quality was top notch, I review a lot of products like this and this is pretty good.
Thank you for this, you've gained a subscriber. A few weeks ago I saw another RUclips 'review' of the Yoshino as the 'first solid state' but they never took it apart during the whole video... and I was like.... really? Even after they found its weight and output had no indication/benefit in line with solid state, they didn't question it. So thank you for doing it properly! Edit: And this is why I prefer personal power banks that use metal cased 18650s or similar, not pouch cells in a thin plastic case.
The inrush current for that drill is probably about 3kW so I'm impressed that any of the power banks coped with it. It'd be interesting to see the current output of the powerbanks for the first second or so of the drill spinning up but you'd need a fancy oscilloscope to record that.
Something isn't right when it comes to charging. It shouldn't take 5 hours @ ~100W in to charge a ~240WH battery. With the battery shenanigans, I'm suspecting they'll be out of business by the end of the year. Nice video.
Congrats, deserved views and subs, this video exploded as well :D This is nice to see someone who doesn't shill blindly products while pocketing a juicy check....
False claims in marketing _are_ illegal, and the process of getting a fraudulent product removed from the market, or termination of false claims, begins with someone reporting the fraud to the FTC and / or federal or state attorneys general. As you are apparently the discoverer of this fraud, and creator and owner of the evidence, there would seem to be no better person to report the crime than you.
Didn't the Supreme Court vote away many rights of FTC and other regulatory institutions, to great applause of many, yay you have your freedom to buy any crap you want! Now just sue for every individual instance,the legal cost per case will immediately exceed the development cost for this device, the company will just cease to exist and start again.
On the inverter overload: I have designed my own in the past. The trick for starting a thing like a power tool is to let the voltage dip on over current rather than snapping off. On the styling: A so called "modern look" seems to go in cycles. If you look at some history stuff about equipment made in about the 1960s, you will see those rounded corners on the box were being done on some stuff then.
Thank you for this. I was 99.99% sure that was exactly what you would find inside. I am super excited for solid state batteries, but the chances of a new chinese company being the first to put them to market means either they are just lying, or they stole someones unfinished work and put out either unsafe, unstable, or under performing batteries that aren't finished development. Hopefully, your video helps people steer clear of the lies and don't spend their money on an underperforming power station.
Thanks for the debunk. We need more people like you to keep consumers informed & by doing so, keep the manufacturers honest. Hopefully that is. Good stuff & needless to say, I wont be buying any Yoshino anything in foreseeable future
Thanks for a proper puncture test. Hopefully it will be a good lesson for at least few simple-minded people who blindly believe manufacturer's claims and blindly believe unethical "I will advertise any product for right kind of money" RUclipsrs who only pretend to be "product reviewer that buys their own product with their own money" ;)
Wow, great review! Other RUclips stations with millions of subscribers all drank the Koo laid and gave "glowing" reviews of the supposed solid state battery. Yours glowed, because the batteries are nothing but a pig with lipstick, that really do catch fire and glow!
Thank you for your work. Highly appreciated. Sadly, I have seen other RUclips channels sustaining the lies spread by these companies. Greetings, Anthony
Thanks. Admittedly, I'm not an expert on solid state batteries. But Yoshino is promoting their power stations with all of the stated, potential benefits of a true, solid state battery. 2.5 times the energy density, lighter, super fast charging, "much safer," etc. If I look up generic articles talking about the potential, future benefits of solid state batteries, Yoshino's claims are basically just copy pasted from those articles. But their batteries clearly don't match up to any of that.
08:23 - That doesn't at all make you weird--it makes you rational & respectful of your own privacy. I work in IT security, & frankly, I wish more people gave a damn about their own privacy. SUBBED.
i dismissed this as an easy "its a scam" and decided i didn't really care about watching, but a few much bigger channels are covering it now, so instead of watching those, i came back to see your one.
Really appreciate someone actually going through and doing the work to validate yoshino's lofty claims instead of simply taking their bullshit at face value like Matt Ferrell...
At least today he took down his first video and made a video update. He's quick to just list what the company claim. Happy to see a real teardown here! :)
I thought about trying to set something like that up. I still have the remaining cells. Maybe at some point. I have a lot going on right now, so probably not any time soon, unfortunately. Cheers!
You have the same Cadence to your voice as a lock picking lawyer on RUclips. Thank you very much for that honest review! and I'm so glad I didn't buy one. so close to doing to so.
I remember looking at their listing on Amazon and thinking their charge time wasn't anything special for it being a solid state, so I thought something was wrong already. Good to know they lied, good video.
@@Ray_of_Light62 Not necessarily. Researchers are trying all kinds of materials as solid electrolytes (as well as all kinds of materials as anodes). They include glass, sulphides, Lithium orthosilicate and many others. As there aren't a lot in actual production (nothing outside of pilot product lines AFAIK) I'm not sure which particular solid state battery you are referring to?
They did a remarkably good job at their industrial design. It looks like a test and measurement instrument from HP or some other reputable company. Even the color is reminiscent of HP Pearl Beige.
I comment about this everywhere when I see people takes this seriously. I work in the field of lithium cell, and there's currently no solid state cells in mass production all over the world. What we have here in these Yoshino battery packs is what we call semi-solid state cells. They are indeed better than more traditional cells, better density, a lot more resistant to damage. But unlike a fully solid-state cell they still self combust upon penetration. However, as long as they claim this is solid state battery, it is a scam.
I was about to ask if you tested the charge and discharge voltage curved, wnich would give an indication about the battery chemistry. But I guess there's not really a point as after watching the whole video and reading your comments. Fantastic job! Subbed.
This video is great as it's started a discussion about truth in advertising and lack of any gov't depts being able to substantiate manufacturers claims, comments on here re Matt Farrells review, he actually purchased the unit from Amazon, and has done a follow-up video on this product, he has moved the original video to an unpublished section that you can still view, I guess it all comes down to how much does the consumer believe what the manufacturer prints on the box or website, lets see how Matt handles this situation, I guess at the end of the day Matt is not a technical person, he does not tear stuff apart, he is really just a tech reporter.
When Matt Ferrell started raving about these on his channel I knew they were bullcrap. It frustrates me when these RUclipsrs get big, they don't take on scientist and engineers who can help them through the marketing crap, at this point they are making enough, I guess greenwashing is too much of a big business these days.
He has said in his description that he saw comments that they aren't actually solid state batteries. He said he is going to investigate and possibly make a follow up video. This was a couple weeks ago. Hopefully he does. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. I'm certainly not an expert on solid state batteries, but at the very least, they seem to be a lot more volatile and reactive than Yoshino claims.
I think he got it given or something. Definitely was given a brief package what to include in the read. Its just a regular chinabox powerstation with twist marketing but the red flag was exactly that solid state claim.
Great video thanks for doing this. I think many people were intrigued and excited by Yoshino's claims. However I am not surprised. 99% of claims about new battery technologies don't pan out. Even Tesla can't do what they promised with their new 4680 cells despite spending billions on R&D and manufacturing lines. Even their new "dry electrode" tech does not make it a fully solid state battery. True solid state is a very difficult cookie to crack.
When I first saw someone review this I knew for a fact it was bs. I knew the solid state facts where lies at least in the sate they where claiming. Thanks for doing the real testing which is taking the batteries out and puncturing them. Awesome vid you earned a sub.
I think the fact that these are more or less "standard" Li-Ion cells, makes this powerstation worse than any other powerstation. Most new stations have LFP cells, and I've seen growatt giving a big discount on their invinity 1500 Model which has normal Li-Ion cells. Thanks for the well explained video
I think they are more of a "hybrid" or semi-solid state battery. Definitely less reactive than a standard Li-Ion battery. I just wish Yoshino were more upfront about it. If they aren't lying, they are at least using marketing that leads people to the wrong conclusion.
You just got earned sub. I was always curious to see what to see that stuff whenever it is legit or scam. Looking foward with any electrical hardware video "scam" or "lie" content.
Matt's video is what inspired me to make this one. I was a bit skeptical immediately. When I looked into it, I became almost sure they were NOT actually solid state batteries. So I ordered one and started emailing the company with questions. So many red flags everywhere. But I wanted to open one up myself and find out.
@@todkapuz Matt is a classic bandwagon hopper type. I really don't take him and his info too seriously most of the time. I think he mostly means well, and probably does sincerely believe in the various hype trains that he promotes.
I have several sizes of the Knipex pliars. I used and abused the larger size at work for years. I love them. The shape of the jaws means they sort of clamp down as you push in one direction, sort of like a pipe wrench. This makes them fantastic for pipes and other round or odd shaped things. On a pipe, once gripped, you don't even have to squeeze any more, just push/pull. The small one I just got for small things around the garage. Very useful for small hoses and fittings in tight spots.
@@bigtb1717 I’ll have to give a pair a try. I like how they can grip with the jaws being closer to parallel compared to a traditional pliers. Thanks for the info 🫡
Thanks for this video. I saw this powerbank first on Undecided with Matt Ferrell. He makes fake break through science videos, and presents them as real. It really bugs me RUclips puts him in my recommended feed. There are so many of these fake science channels on RUclips and I really think they should all be banned and removed from the platform including Matt Ferrells channel.
I tried to order one of these on Amazon a few weeks ago, but they cancelled my order due to availability. (A couple days after i placed it, which is unusual).
A lot of solid state battery hype announcements I see have something to do with Toyota. As they have been slow on the EV uptake, they appear to be trying to put people off buying EVs until these magical solid state batteries appear (or they finally get their EV product range spun up)
A lot of Chinese brands are named to lead one to assume they are Japanese as with Yoshino in this case. Not just that, a lot of cheap S cookware from there deliberately packaged with Japanese sounding names and Japanese language on them. All are intend to mislead. The fact they are in China but has a tiny rented space in California "qualifies" them as a global company. 🌏 BS is semi-solid state too.
I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt as a “Lost in Translation” solid state battery. It is unique to use flat cell LiPo’s in those power bank things. That type of package and the polymer composition allow a very high discharge rate over the usual circular LiOn cells. That means high current charging, likely maxing out that little charger. I have a power bank I made out of “100c” 4s LiPo packs for short duration high load applications. I usually use 18650 LiFepo4 cells for regular stuff. TLDR: They meant fast charging high load… Cheers 👍
I didn’t even watch the other video in my YT feed. I knew there was no way solid state batteries had hit the market yet and especially not in the form of this product as the first thing.
re: "I knew there was no way solid state batteries had hit the market yet and especially not in the form of this product as the first thing." exactly, you, me, and whole lot of others (who don't have tech channels) knew it, but the "scam" being run is that we're supposed to believe that somehow Matt DOESN'T know it despite the fact he's the "tech guy" with the "tech channel" constantly covering all this stuff right...? WRONG he's lying.
@@phillyphil1513 Matt's unlisted the previous video and released something of a retraction. Doesn't excuse it, I think. Anyone with a functioning brain would think "gee, solid state batteries are a big deal, I wonder if a consumer grade portable battery created by a Chinese company and sold on Amazon is where the first solid state battery is a likely place to make its debut". Also he did no checking. Asked no questions of the company and clearly just banged out an "I'm first!" video for views / clout. Backfired though.
I looked one up. For a solid month i have received no served advertisements except for this product. That is such a red flag, they must dump everything into advertisements and nothing to develop the technology
Yoshino power teardowns reveal non solid state batteries in their power stations Based on teardowns and analysis, it appears that Yoshino Power’s portable power stations, including the B330 and B4000 models, utilize non-solid-state batteries, contradicting their marketing claims of employing solid-state technology. Key Findings Liquid Electrolyte: Teardowns reveal the presence of a liquid electrolyte, a characteristic of traditional lithium-ion batteries, rather than a solid-state electrolyte. NCM (Nickel Cobalt Manganese) Formula: The battery chemistry used by Yoshino Power is identified as NCM, which is a common formula for lithium-ion batteries, not solid-state batteries. Safety Concerns: While Yoshino Power’s marketing emphasizes the safety benefits of solid-state batteries, the use of liquid electrolytes and NCM chemistry may still pose safety risks, such as thermal runaway and fires, similar to traditional lithium-ion batteries.
So many cheap overload protection algorithms do this. It's an issue with a lot of smart plugs with energy monitoring. They cut power off when your compressor turns on (refrigerator, window AC) and then your room gets warm or the food goes bad.
Second update: I did some more research on the Safety Data Sheet that comes up from the part number/QR code on the cells. At least two of the chemicals listed are liquid, organic solvents, normally used as electrolyte in lithium ion batteries. So...
There is a "review" from a person I used to respect, Matt Ferrell. 1.7M views of that shameless promotion. Disgusting.
@@vadimus2007 I was JUST looking for his video in an attempt to link him this one. I'm with you, in the 'used to respect'. He definitely should've known not to take something like this at face value, and do a breakdown. At the VERY least, China products haven't been the most honest and reliable. Added to a company there claiming to basically be the first out of the gate w/ such a technology, and then just accepting it and promoting it to his large audience.
@@vadimus2007Hi vadimus, I'm vladimus😂. You're saying he used to be more respectable? All I've seen from him are marketing slides from companies that don't have a viable product and are looking for more VC funding.
@@vadimus2007 Matt Farrel's channel has always been a promotional channel...
@@edb75001 Matt is engaging enough, great with smart home tech but I think he should have stayed away from more technical stuff like solid state batteries. His review was simplistic at best, missing the academic rigour necessary when you review a "revolutionary" product that is more marketing than substance. There were statements like "solid state batteries stop dendrites from forming" listed as an advantage when one of the major challenges with solid state batteries has been the expansion and contraction causing cracking in both the electrodes and the solid electrolyte and, you guessed it... dendrites forming and short circuiting the battery. He seems to be more about style and the user interface than the nuts and bolts so you can see why the Yoshino batt appealed to him.
Thank you for doing this. After watching Matt Ferrell take these at face value, it's funny to see these things aren't really solid state.
He did acknowledge (week ago) the claims in his comments that these batteries aren't true solid state cells. He's reached out to the company and someone else who did an analysis of the cells and says they aren't solid state. He said he may do some kind of follow up, depending on what he finds out. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.
On a podcast, he did say that Yoshino supposedly sent him safety testing data and videos. That's very interesting. I have to imagine they told him not to share them, because he didn't show them in his video, that I can remember. And it's also interesting, because I exchanged multiple emails with Yoshino about safety testing and such, and they wouldn't tell me anything, lol. And when I presented some things and asked if their batteries were semi-solid state, they just ghosted me. Which, whatever, I'm nobody. But it's funny that they are selective about where they share the data.
Agreed, it seemed pretty bizarre watching the Matt Ferrell video. I was really surprised there was no proof on such a bold claim. If solid state is going to be as great as some claim, I'm sure it would have made more than just a product review video.
I'm Matt Ferrell, and this is being a shill for RUclips engagement.
@@VideosVlogsThatsIt twit.
Matt Ferrell is an extremely great channel to know about quackery and scams. If you see it featured in there there is about 95% of probabilities of being a scam, quackery, uber-overhyped tech that is not really feasible.
Update. I did look into that battery data sheet I found and it does seem to trace back to a Chinese company that claims to be making solid state batteries. So it's possible that the manufacturer of the cells is also claiming they are "solid state" batteries. I think they are more like semi-solid state. But at this point, I don't know if it matters. The stated watt hours per kilogram are roughly in line with typical lithium ion batteries, the Yoshino power stations charge slower than the competition, and clearly the batteries can and will catch fire in the right circumstances. So I'm not sure what kind of revolution their "solid state batteries" are. But I'm always happy to be corrected. So if anyone finds any contrary info, please share it.
And in case anyone was wondering if smoke and fire necessarily means Yoshino are lying; here are some quotes from their website:
_"Nail Penetration Test
The nail penetration test evaluates lithium-ion battery safety by puncturing to simulate damage and monitor reactions. Yoshino solid-state batteries did not display any serious reactions in comparison to prior lithium-ion models that displayed smoke or fire."
"Traditional Lithium-ion batteries pose dangerous potential for combustion due to their use of volatile liquid electrolytes, which can easily be exposed to air and ignite. On the other hand, solid-state batteries utilize nonflammable solid electrolytes - meaning even if they get hot from overcharging or current load issues, there is no risk of a fire occurring."
"Another significant benefit of solid-state batteries is their safety compared to other rechargeable cells. Since they don't contain the sameany liquid components or combustible materials"_
So they say in multiple places that their batteries contain no flammable materials, and won't smoke or catch fire when damaged. Just saying.
You should test another cell to see if they swell up like a pillow when overcharged- classic pouch cell behavior. 5v from a 1A or lower USB charger , fed straight into the cell .
When they received the cells from the manufacturer they should have immediately recognized them as normal pouch cells , more or less. There have been some advancements with safer pouch cell separators. The manufacturer may have attempted to rip off this technology pattented by stanley blackNdecker and employed in dewalt powerstack pouch-cell tool batteries...
I don't think you should fall for any of the BS and be prepared to call these cells Semi-Solid State. They're either Solid State or not. A Flying Squirrel is not a semi-bird.
Seriously? Can you not read your own damn post? Solo State batteries are not at risk of bursting into flames when they are overcharged or if there are load issues, they claimed nothing about being punctured. Nice twisting of words though.
@@dribz3b29 They did mention that there was no smoke or fire when penetrated, unlike other batteries. But clearly they do smoke and can catch fire when damaged. I admit my damage was a bit extreme, but it's a questionable claim at the very least. Also, the other quotes were pointing out that they say they contain no flammable materials. And yet, the safety data sheet lists two different, liquid, organic solvents.
My test was a bit extreme, and they certainly are more stable than some other battery types. But their claims are pretty extreme too, and I think they are not honest or maybe simply unaware that their battery cells do, in fact, contain volatile, liquid electrolytes, if only in relatively small amounts. I think this makes them firmly fall into the category of semi-solid state or hybrid cells. That's fine, but they should just be honest and open about that.
As per your first shot penetration it does not lead to fire, probably did not short out properly , this result can possibly be replicated under controlled conditions for a biased test result . It only needs to survive it once and u golden for a good boy sticker from CE
VINDICATION!!!
I seriously considered getting One of these and something didn't seem right. I researched the company and I think at the time they were claiming that they made it in California. I found the same address and knew right away that there was no way a battery factory could be in that building. Both the size of the space that they rented and the fact that they didn't need any enhanced air handling equipment for manufacturing a battery.
It made no sense that the major manufacturers weren't making solid state batteries and that the terms they used to describe their batteries only lead to dead ends.
Thank you for definitely exposing this scam
I asked so many people to open these up, yet no one did until you. Thanks.
Thanks for the exposé! You've saved me (and perhaps many others) a lot of money. Even the name Yoshino connotes a Japanese company, as opposed to a Chinese one. I have nothing against Chinese tech or companies. I even lived in China for a while 30 years ago. There are many very high standard enterprises there, as well as many innovative technologies. There are also many disreputable ones ... like anywhere.
Yeah, once in a while someone will make a comment along the lines of "what do you expect from a Chinese company?" Well, there are plenty of Chinese companies that are reputable and make good, well-regarded products. The only reason I even pointed it out is because they make a point on their website of saying "Designed in the US" and they say the batteries are "Japanese technology." So people were understandably claiming it was a US company or a Japanese company. They're not. Not sure where their US design team is. Maybe in that warehouse, lol.
Ultimately, it's just the marketing hype and slippery terms they use that made me a little fired up at the end and call them liars.
According to the 3.72V printed on the battery pouch, it is Lithium Polymer battery. These batteries are a type of rechargeable battery that use a polymer electrolyte instead of a liquid electrolyte. LiPo batteries are sensitive to overcharging, over-discharging, and physical damage, which can lead to swelling, leakage, or even fires.
Yup, not solid state. I even did more research into the chemicals listed on the SDS, and at least two of them are listed as liquid, organic solvents (probably absorbed into the polymer). There are also multiple polymers listed.
Lipoly batteries are -the- a bomb
Lipo? If so, that's much worse than standard lio-ion. Lipos are typically restricted to RC hobbies and other less "consumer-friendly" duties due to their higher volititly.
You can't necessarily tell the precise battery chemistry just from looking at the voltage. And "lithium polymer" batteries aren't actually a different thing than "lithium ion" batteries anyway. Many batteries everybody thinks of as "lithium ion" (which have a variety of other voltages) actually do use polymer-based electrolytes too. "Lithium polymer" is really more a marketing term, not a well-defined technical category anyway.
But it is also theoretically possible that somebody might have created solid-state batteries with a nominal cell electric potential of 3.72V (or something close) too. There is nothing we really know that says that _couldn't_ necessarily happen. Did they actually do that in this case? Based on the other stuff from this video, I think it's pretty clear they actually didn't, but still, the nominal voltage by itself doesn't really tell you anything one way or another in this regard.
The issue with li-poly batteries is that they are sealed and if anything goes wrong (it always can), excess gas has nowhere to go, unlike the way they produce 18650 and other cylindrical batteries. Usually you can keep on using cylindrical batteries no problem even after such things happen, but it's not recommended
you saved me money i was thinking about buying that exact model after ! i saw a few " reviews" but neither went all the way and opened it up and i wasn't going to commit before knowing for sure because i suspected this very thing
but those reviews are all 5 star! how can you go wrong?
Being still a small channel ,you likely put your own moola into this test, But even if u didn't you were still willing to destroy it for science and consumer truths...RESPECT!!
*Thank you for the information. Society needs more people like you.*
I watched Matt Ferrell's video and I said in the comments at the time that I doubted very much they were solid state cells as I just wasn't seeing the advantages in the specs. Namely 500Wh / kg at a minimum. I hypothesised that they might be semi solid state at best. Because plenty of companies have working semi solid state batteries but the big players working on solid state are close (Samsung) but they won't be in production for a couple of years and are expecting the product to be much more expensive than traditional Li Ion. It appears at best they've obfuscated about the nail penetration test - at worst they've lied. PS the reason the first arrow didn't cause a fire was there was no metal left in the battery to short it. If you do it with an actual metal nail I think you'd see an instant reaction. Whatever - it's less safe than LiFePO4.
Him comparing the weight of the entire unit to other power boxes with completely different capacities and features in order to prove the batteries were lighter was peak Matt Ferrell.
Yeah! Use a pneumatic nail gun in a home made fixture that you can fire it from a distance. That would definitely disprove the nail test certification they claim.
I did a lot of battery work in the RC world about 10 years ago. Learned a lot making the RC Flight Source App.
Organic solvents can also be solids. Your typical LiPo battery has a gel electrolyte. They've struggled to get the solid polymer electrolytes to have good ion transfer, which is why we haven't seen solid state batteries on the market. You'll have to discharge a cell fully and pull apart the sheets to see what is inside. The company making these batteries should also know better than to claim safety when they have spontaneously combustible materials such as cobalt and manganese. The only possible claim to safety would be if it has an actual solid electrolyte that would stop dendrite formation. Solid state batteries aren't inherently safer just because of the electrolyte. Even solid electrolytes can be flammable. They ideally would just have a higher C rating and lifetime recharge to start. Solid state electrolytes can possibly allow the batteries to charge to higher capacities by pushing the cathode to it's maximum without fear of dendrite formation. NCM batteries are just as unsafe if not more unsafe than an NMC battery when exposed to a puncture, which would bridge the anode and cathode sparking a runaway thermal reaction. Clearly their marketing department and management know nothing about their products and made false safety claims.
If you want better puncture safety, the chemistries you want are LiFePo or LTO. Their cathode chemistries don't use manganese or cobalt and thus have a lower thermal runaway chance. Safety and high capacity won't come until probably the anode-free battery era.
We need more critical reviews like this over all of the Chinese junk in the power station market
The Undecided channel has been giving me an icky feeling for a while now, and his video about this product really pushed my opinion of it from a tech channel to just fluff and an influencer.
Thanks for validating my intuition on this with some responsible investigation.
NOT made in Japan, Thanks for all your testing.
I have hit these guys up dozens of times trying to review these, but apparently they knew I would also expose them. well done SUBBED
Good bust man. When a chinese company is selling something that basically doesnt exist , you know it's fake. Reminds me of the 'TrustFire' 9000 mAH 18650's...
You can trust there will be fire.
I was also a victim of some of those Trustfire cells. My first experience with counterfeit goods was on vacation in Thailand in the early 90's. At the local open air market you could find shoes with labels that read "beware of frakes". I even bought a Creedence Clearwater Revival cassette tape including such hits as: RUN THROUGH THE JUNGER, UP AROUND THE BAND and WHOSE STOP THE RAIN.
Had a vape shop around those times.. scary looking back on it.
@@skipondowntheroad5833 "frakes" that's hilarious! yeah i bought a 4 pack of TrustFire 18650's. They were so light I carefully opened one up and found a tiny 14500 cell inside the can, with some kind of fake sand to fill the space. they tested around 500mAh actual capacity and had terrible voltage sag when discharging anywhere above two or three hundred milliamps. Beyond terrible!!
They need to rebadge these products to TRUSTMEBRO brand.
I have a Fossibot power station and when I asked if it was UL certified, they sent me the entire UL test report..... It's been running as a UPS (8ms switching time) for a year, no issues.
Was thinking about buying one of these, but it didn’t smell right, so I went with an established brand. Glad I did. Thanks for this
Thanks for the tear-down and sacrificing a broadhead to puncture the pouch cell. 🎯🔥💥👏👍
Thank you! You just earned 7 subs….
We’re a bunch of firefighters who were anxiously awaiting a solid state battery solution from an AMERICAN company.
Our primary use is for powering/charging 2-way radio gear and drone batteries in the field.
We specifically avoided the newly released DJI Power unit(s) for those reasons.
With 11 vehicles to equip (replacing very old Jackery units), your work saved us a small fortune.
Thanks again!
Out of curiosity, why are you waiting for solid state specifically?
@@Black-Villain I am no experat at all.. but my guess is having a technology that doesnt blow up when overheated is an advantage when operated near major sources of heat. Lithium Ion explodes. Solid state should not. Firemen work around sources of heat!!?
@@dalmatianlife But we already have very safe cells in LiFePO4. It's ignition point is so much higher that provided you stick with either the traditional cylindrical cells (safest because the lowest amount of energy per cell) or the aluminium case cells they heat up when penetrated but don't normally catch fire. The pouch cells are different - they don't have any pressure relief system so they tend to spew electrolyte everywhere when they burst and they can catch fire. I'd imagine if they are replacing old Jackery's they are not LiFe. DJI make some of the best drones but I don't know about their power electronics. I'd trust BYD and CATL though for the actual batteries.
@@Black-Villain sorry. I just typed a small novel worth of info.
When i went to post it, RUclips gave me a login window and erased it all.
I have to run, but in a few lines:
Bottom line … we’ve attended quite a few lithium battery seminars and courses over the past few years..
The threat potential is extremely high and applies to both lithium ion and lithium iron phosphate type batteries.
The batteries contain both the fuel and oxygen (oxidizer) required for combustion. The heat/flames of a thermal runaway fire is just incredible and there is also a huge hazard when gases are released, especially in a confined space environment.
A friend and fellow USAR teammate is a FDNY Battalion Chief and routinely brings stories, photos, and videos of horrific fires, mostly in high-rise apartment buildings. They are mostly caused by batteries in e-bikes, scooters, and other conveyances like the one-wheeled device that looks sort of like a skateboard.
These fires are nearly impossible to extinguish. The goal is to pour enough water on the fire to prevent spread to other batteries and other flammable , as the fire continues to burn until the “fuel” is depleted . The worst danger, but has only happened once or twice in the past few years, is elevator fires. There was a recent horrific fire in elevator in China. I believe there’s a censored video on RUclips, but the entire unedited/unblurred video on the “Fire Engineering” site. Even the smallest battery can result in the elevator car turning into an oven or kiln.
We all carry water fire extinguishers used for “Class A” fires (combustible paper & wood, etc.,) and dry chem fire extinguishers for “Class B” (flamaable liquids) and “Class C” (electrical) fires. All are totally useless when attempting to combat a lithium battery fire.
The FDNY has a specialized “Purple K” unit, consisting of several pieces of apparatus and specially trained firefighters, it carries large tanks of “Purple K” firefighting agent. It’s quite pricey, requires special handling and training, and was developed for and used on flammable liquids. New York has a massive number of underground, electrical transformer of vaults. When an arcc fire or similar terrifying event occurs in these, their “go to” is to dispatch the “purple k” unit to dump in enough agent to quench the arcing and fire.
(surprisingly to the EE’s, electricians and hobbyists out there, if the event is large enough to affect surrounding structures or poses a life safety hazardthey will sometimes use water in an attempt to fill the vault until the Purple-K unit arrives. I once witnessed this during a “ride along” back in the 1990’s. They will charge a SMALL diameter hose line with water and, from a distance of 30-50’ or more, will keep the nozzle in contact with the ground. They’ll aim the water stream along the concrete or pavement towards the vault etrance (usually a rectangle heavy steel grate on the sidewalk - kinda looks like a subway ventilation grate) OR a manhole with removable cover. It’s not too effective & often causes damage though the damage is already done by that time.
The Purple k agent works extremely well, but create a huge mess and requires cleanup, etc..
Guess what?
“Purple K” it’s not much more effective than just plain water when trying to fight a substantial lithium battery fire, Like a lithium battery “bank” used as power back up in a home or commercial environment.
Sorry…. This ended up being a messy post and went all over the place.
The primary reason for trying to get away from the very power dense lithium battery use for us, which has actually been incredible for all of our equipment, especially our portable radios…. Is the threat indicated above. Most of our power tools are now lithium battery powered, we even have a battery powered “jaws of life“ extrication tool for hard to access areas, etc. But, our portable radios have $300-400 intrinsically safe battery packs (radios are $10-12,000 Motorola APX 8K) that have undergone extreme testing for safety. Punctures are still a risk. But, our 4 watt UHF portable radio life has gone from 2-4 hour max use (nicad batteries / heavy duty cycle) to slightly longer nimh… To 12+ HOURS with lithium-ion batteries.
If used properly and the batteries and tools are constructed for use in the type of environment used, the power density in lithium batteries is a real game changer. we just want to remain as safe as possible, especially considering you tend to handle equipment, harshly when operating quickly when lives are at stake.
Until we have a better technology, I guess we’ll be sticking with lithium and educating all of the users unproper use + storage, etc.
Thanks!
'murica wooo
Not like any American company has ever made a scam, or sold fake garbage
🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅
Thank for the teardown and battery puncture testing, that's what we need.
Good work exposing their lies!
This can't be legal, can it? I wonder what a lawyer would say. At the very least ask them to return your money, but they should get sued as well. It's dangerous giving customers false information about the safety of the packs. What if someone buys them specifically because they think punctures won't lead to fires, and then use it in an unsafe environment due to the company's deception.
I doubt anything legal can be done. Even if someone could prove intent on the part of the company and not just "creative marketing" or whatever, it's a Chinese company. I seriously doubt any legal action could be taken against them.
Maybe its not your intention, but this a really crazy take down of matt farrell to the point where he seems to be negligent in making that video on yoshino solid state batteries. The battery part number being a lith ion battery is wild. Then the diagram of a lithium ion staring him straight in the face when buying the product. Jeez he don't seem that smart after all.
Honestly, his video was part of what inspired me to make this one, but I didn't mean it as a direct critique. In his defense, he did update his description to say that he's going to look more into it since people in his comments have been saying they aren't solid state batteries. He said that two weeks ago. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.
I looked over the SDS for that part number again, and all it says is "lithium ion battery." Technically, a solid state battery could still be called a lithium ion battery, so it isn't necessarily proof of anything. But the fact that they seem to behave exactly like any old lithium ion/polymer battery is the kicker for me. At this point, if Yoshino argue that they can be defined as "solid state" then I'd say it's a distinction with no difference. The stated watt hours per kilogram are right in line with standard lithium ion batteries. They charge slower than most competitive power stations, and as shown in this video, they absolutely can still violently vent and catch fire, just like standard lithium batteries. So I'm not seeing a single one of the advantages stated by Yoshino to actually bear out.
I suspect the batteries in the Yoshino would be defined as "semi-solid-state." The graphic on their website is almost showing a solid state battery, with no "separator" between the two electrodes, but from everything I've read, organic solvent is absorbed into some kind of substrate in semi-solid-state batteries. That is what I brought up in my last email to Yoshino, and asked if they were semi-solid-state batteries, and they never responded.
Matt is a crazy nut job. Just listen to what he says about anything! He has the mind virus.
Really disappointed by Matt. But hey, he earned from $17K to $51K from 1.7M views for making that clickbait and/or paid promotion.
Matt Farrell has a history of hyping up falsifiable tech claims.
A Chinese manufacturing lying about their product,? Oh my god? Who would have thunk it. Yeah they lie through their teeth and they don't care, what are you going to do? You can return the item but it's not going to stop them from ripping off the next guy, so, they're overpriced they lie through their teeth hopefully this will get out quickly and they will fade from the marketplace with the warehouse full of unsellable batteries. Thanks for review it was a very informative and well thought out
Excellent testing. It's always the smaller channels that seem to come through with the proper info.
OMG! I am so shocked, a chinese company lying. Good review. I would pass just because the overload lockout is too touchy, oh, that, and comparable other brands, with pathetic old school not solid state li-ion batteries are less than half the price. That new fangled technology, solid state disguised as li-ion, guess that costs extra.
🙂
I also tore this down and nicked the battery foil, electrolyte leaked out. Not sure what solid state means but liquid electrolyte is in the cells. I have to say the build quality was top notch, I review a lot of products like this and this is pretty good.
Thank you for this, you've gained a subscriber. A few weeks ago I saw another RUclips 'review' of the Yoshino as the 'first solid state' but they never took it apart during the whole video... and I was like.... really? Even after they found its weight and output had no indication/benefit in line with solid state, they didn't question it. So thank you for doing it properly!
Edit: And this is why I prefer personal power banks that use metal cased 18650s or similar, not pouch cells in a thin plastic case.
The inrush current for that drill is probably about 3kW so I'm impressed that any of the power banks coped with it. It'd be interesting to see the current output of the powerbanks for the first second or so of the drill spinning up but you'd need a fancy oscilloscope to record that.
@@spankeyfish That's why I wouldn't have bothered even mentioning it if the other units hadn't handled it.
Something isn't right when it comes to charging. It shouldn't take 5 hours @ ~100W in to charge a ~240WH battery. With the battery shenanigans, I'm suspecting they'll be out of business by the end of the year. Nice video.
@@CubbyTech The model I tested has a 600 watt hour battery. But there are still plenty of shenanigans to go around, lol.
Congrats, deserved views and subs, this video exploded as well :D This is nice to see someone who doesn't shill blindly products while pocketing a juicy check....
False claims in marketing _are_ illegal, and the process of getting a fraudulent product removed from the market, or termination of false claims, begins with someone reporting the fraud to the FTC and / or federal or state attorneys general. As you are apparently the discoverer of this fraud, and creator and owner of the evidence, there would seem to be no better person to report the crime than you.
Didn't the Supreme Court vote away many rights of FTC and other regulatory institutions, to great applause of many, yay you have your freedom to buy any crap you want! Now just sue for every individual instance,the legal cost per case will immediately exceed the development cost for this device, the company will just cease to exist and start again.
Excellent, thorough analysis. Thank you.
On the inverter overload: I have designed my own in the past. The trick for starting a thing like a power tool is to let the voltage dip on over current rather than snapping off.
On the styling: A so called "modern look" seems to go in cycles. If you look at some history stuff about equipment made in about the 1960s, you will see those rounded corners on the box were being done on some stuff then.
Thank you for this. I was 99.99% sure that was exactly what you would find inside. I am super excited for solid state batteries, but the chances of a new chinese company being the first to put them to market means either they are just lying, or they stole someones unfinished work and put out either unsafe, unstable, or under performing batteries that aren't finished development.
Hopefully, your video helps people steer clear of the lies and don't spend their money on an underperforming power station.
Wow this is surprising. You should inform the better business bureau
Thanks for the debunk. We need more people like you to keep consumers informed & by doing so, keep the manufacturers honest. Hopefully that is. Good stuff & needless to say, I wont be buying any Yoshino anything in foreseeable future
Thanks for a proper puncture test. Hopefully it will be a good lesson for at least few simple-minded people who blindly believe manufacturer's claims and blindly believe unethical "I will advertise any product for right kind of money" RUclipsrs who only pretend to be "product reviewer that buys their own product with their own money" ;)
Wow, great review! Other RUclips stations with millions of subscribers all drank the Koo laid and gave "glowing" reviews of the supposed solid state battery. Yours glowed, because the batteries are nothing but a pig with lipstick, that really do catch fire and glow!
Side note: Those wooden Felo screwdrivers are so nice. Beautiful, even next to high quality Wihas
@UndecidedMF needs to see this
That guys is like watching QVC or something, totally uncritical about anything.
You'd probably have to pay him to care.
Thank you for your work. Highly appreciated.
Sadly, I have seen other RUclips channels sustaining the lies spread by these companies.
Greetings,
Anthony
Thanks. Admittedly, I'm not an expert on solid state batteries. But Yoshino is promoting their power stations with all of the stated, potential benefits of a true, solid state battery. 2.5 times the energy density, lighter, super fast charging, "much safer," etc. If I look up generic articles talking about the potential, future benefits of solid state batteries, Yoshino's claims are basically just copy pasted from those articles. But their batteries clearly don't match up to any of that.
08:23 - That doesn't at all make you weird--it makes you rational & respectful of your own privacy. I work in IT security, & frankly, I wish more people gave a damn about their own privacy. SUBBED.
i dismissed this as an easy "its a scam" and decided i didn't really care about watching, but a few much bigger channels are covering it now, so instead of watching those, i came back to see your one.
The funny thing is that that's essentially a liquid Polymer battery, technology which i believe Sony brought to market in 1998!
Thank you sir for posting this video.
Really appreciate someone actually going through and doing the work to validate yoshino's lofty claims instead of simply taking their bullshit at face value like Matt Ferrell...
Hi five bro
Matt does tend to just spout whatever the video's sponsor wants him to say.
@@justinfowler2857not even just sponsors, just any marketing material lmao
At least today he took down his first video and made a video update. He's quick to just list what the company claim. Happy to see a real teardown here! :)
Thanks for your honest review. Now we know they misrepresented the solid state batteries Charging more for it under false advertising 😮
I think your my new Fav, Gets straight to the point, all about the content. Big thumbs up
Great video. It would be great to also see an over-charge test at 2C or 3C to 6V to see what happens.
I thought about trying to set something like that up. I still have the remaining cells. Maybe at some point. I have a lot going on right now, so probably not any time soon, unfortunately. Cheers!
You have the same Cadence to your voice as a lock picking lawyer on RUclips. Thank you very much for that honest review! and I'm so glad I didn't buy one. so close to doing to so.
Thank you for doing this. I was vaguely considering one, but hell no now.
Very good video. I also doubted that these are solid state batteries. It's outrageous to use it to describe their product.
You saved me a few hundred bucks by burning your own money. I appreciate you very much!
I remember looking at their listing on Amazon and thinking their charge time wasn't anything special for it being a solid state, so I thought something was wrong already. Good to know they lied, good video.
If you open a solid state battery, there is a layer of β-Alumina, a white ceramic material. This is the solid electrolyte which allows ionic flow.
Maybe I’ll still pull one apart in a follow up video.
@@Ray_of_Light62 Not necessarily. Researchers are trying all kinds of materials as solid electrolytes (as well as all kinds of materials as anodes). They include glass, sulphides, Lithium orthosilicate and many others. As there aren't a lot in actual production (nothing outside of pilot product lines AFAIK) I'm not sure which particular solid state battery you are referring to?
Thanks for uncovering the truth. I was originally interested but had suspicions.
Thank you for your hard investigating work. That was very helpful.
They did a remarkably good job at their industrial design. It looks like a test and measurement instrument from HP or some other reputable company. Even the color is reminiscent of HP Pearl Beige.
I comment about this everywhere when I see people takes this seriously. I work in the field of lithium cell, and there's currently no solid state cells in mass production all over the world. What we have here in these Yoshino battery packs is what we call semi-solid state cells. They are indeed better than more traditional cells, better density, a lot more resistant to damage. But unlike a fully solid-state cell they still self combust upon penetration. However, as long as they claim this is solid state battery, it is a scam.
I agree, I think these are "semi-solid" state. But they aren't marketed that way.
I was about to ask if you tested the charge and discharge voltage curved, wnich would give an indication about the battery chemistry.
But I guess there's not really a point as after watching the whole video and reading your comments.
Fantastic job! Subbed.
This video is great as it's started a discussion about truth in advertising and lack of any gov't depts being able to substantiate manufacturers claims, comments on here re Matt Farrells review, he actually purchased the unit from Amazon, and has done a follow-up video on this product, he has moved the original video to an unpublished section that you can still view, I guess it all comes down to how much does the consumer believe what the manufacturer prints on the box or website, lets see how Matt handles this situation, I guess at the end of the day Matt is not a technical person, he does not tear stuff apart, he is really just a tech reporter.
thank you for checking
When Matt Ferrell started raving about these on his channel I knew they were bullcrap. It frustrates me when these RUclipsrs get big, they don't take on scientist and engineers who can help them through the marketing crap, at this point they are making enough, I guess greenwashing is too much of a big business these days.
He has said in his description that he saw comments that they aren't actually solid state batteries. He said he is going to investigate and possibly make a follow up video. This was a couple weeks ago. Hopefully he does. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. I'm certainly not an expert on solid state batteries, but at the very least, they seem to be a lot more volatile and reactive than Yoshino claims.
He took down the video and did a follow up.
I think he got it given or something. Definitely was given a brief package what to include in the read.
Its just a regular chinabox powerstation with twist marketing but the red flag was exactly that solid state claim.
@@bigtb1717 He has been called out many times for this behavior yet he still does it over and over.
Excellent testing. Thanks so much. Peace, Calvin.
Great video thanks for doing this. I think many people were intrigued and excited by Yoshino's claims. However I am not surprised. 99% of claims about new battery technologies don't pan out. Even Tesla can't do what they promised with their new 4680 cells despite spending billions on R&D and manufacturing lines. Even their new "dry electrode" tech does not make it a fully solid state battery. True solid state is a very difficult cookie to crack.
When I first saw someone review this I knew for a fact it was bs. I knew the solid state facts where lies at least in the sate they where claiming. Thanks for doing the real testing which is taking the batteries out and puncturing them. Awesome vid you earned a sub.
I think the fact that these are more or less "standard" Li-Ion cells, makes this powerstation worse than any other powerstation. Most new stations have LFP cells, and I've seen growatt giving a big discount on their invinity 1500 Model which has normal Li-Ion cells. Thanks for the well explained video
I think they are more of a "hybrid" or semi-solid state battery. Definitely less reactive than a standard Li-Ion battery. I just wish Yoshino were more upfront about it. If they aren't lying, they are at least using marketing that leads people to the wrong conclusion.
Thanks showing this. You just helped me decide what buy, what not to buy and how not to be scammed. ^^
Thank you! That was a good review. And great tear down. Great work 👍
You just got earned sub.
I was always curious to see what to see that stuff whenever it is legit or scam. Looking foward with any electrical hardware video "scam" or "lie" content.
Yes, i also found it strange that somehow this technology got here so fast
Check out Undecided who proudly claims it is SS, and I linked your channel regarding this 660 watt unit.
Matt's video is what inspired me to make this one. I was a bit skeptical immediately. When I looked into it, I became almost sure they were NOT actually solid state batteries. So I ordered one and started emailing the company with questions. So many red flags everywhere. But I wanted to open one up myself and find out.
@@bigtb1717 You need to do a warranty claim due to a terrible archery incident and have them send you a replacement 'Solid State' battery pack 🙂
seen Matt fall into the hype of several marking teams... he's got such a following, but doesnt do anything to verify half the stuff I see there sadly.
@@todkapuz Matt is a classic bandwagon hopper type. I really don't take him and his info too seriously most of the time. I think he mostly means well, and probably does sincerely believe in the various hype trains that he promotes.
Matt has become a running joke. The truth is not really important for him it seems
Thank you so much for exposing the truth!
I know samsung os working on solid state batteries but I was skeptical but souldent find anything to the contrary till this. Thank-you
Very interesting thanks!
May I ask what you use the Knipex pliers for and if you find them useful?
I have several sizes of the Knipex pliars. I used and abused the larger size at work for years. I love them. The shape of the jaws means they sort of clamp down as you push in one direction, sort of like a pipe wrench. This makes them fantastic for pipes and other round or odd shaped things. On a pipe, once gripped, you don't even have to squeeze any more, just push/pull. The small one I just got for small things around the garage. Very useful for small hoses and fittings in tight spots.
@@bigtb1717 I’ll have to give a pair a try. I like how they can grip with the jaws being closer to parallel compared to a traditional pliers.
Thanks for the info 🫡
Just WOW! No wonder Chinese products get such a bad rep. Thanks for the honest evaluation.
Thanks for this video. I saw this powerbank first on Undecided with Matt Ferrell. He makes fake break through science videos, and presents them as real. It really bugs me RUclips puts him in my recommended feed. There are so many of these fake science channels on RUclips and I really think they should all be banned and removed from the platform including Matt Ferrells channel.
Look at his video now, he had to change the title and thumbnail cause this thing got busted. LOL
I really enjoy Matt's videos. Sorry you don't like them.
I tried to order one of these on Amazon a few weeks ago, but they cancelled my order due to availability. (A couple days after i placed it, which is unusual).
Comment for algorithm. Thanks for shedding light on this.
as expected. thanks for teardown and testing.
A lot of solid state battery hype announcements I see have something to do with Toyota. As they have been slow on the EV uptake, they appear to be trying to put people off buying EVs until these magical solid state batteries appear (or they finally get their EV product range spun up)
These batteries are solid state. They're solidly in a right state.
Thank you for doing the Test and Exposing FRAUD!!!
A lot of Chinese brands are named to lead one to assume they are Japanese as with Yoshino in this case. Not just that, a lot of cheap S cookware from there deliberately packaged with Japanese sounding names and Japanese language on them. All are intend to mislead.
The fact they are in China but has a tiny rented space in California "qualifies" them as a global company. 🌏 BS is semi-solid state too.
Thank you very much for this information
Thank you for exposing this and indirectly exposing the liars who promoted it
Thanks for the info! Really appriciated
FINALLY A TEARDOWN!
I can't believe a company's board of directors would be dishonest. A Chinese company, no less! I'm shocked!!
I will NEVER buy anything yoshito sells, what a bunch of liars, I'm gonna spread the word, shut these scammers down.
I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt as a “Lost in Translation” solid state battery. It is unique to use flat cell LiPo’s in those power bank things. That type of package and the polymer composition allow a very high discharge rate over the usual circular LiOn cells. That means high current charging, likely maxing out that little charger. I have a power bank I made out of “100c” 4s LiPo packs for short duration high load applications. I usually use 18650 LiFepo4 cells for regular stuff.
TLDR: They meant fast charging high load… Cheers 👍
I didn’t even watch the other video in my YT feed. I knew there was no way solid state batteries had hit the market yet and especially not in the form of this product as the first thing.
re: "I knew there was no way solid state batteries had hit the market yet and especially not in the form of this product as the first thing." exactly, you, me, and whole lot of others (who don't have tech channels) knew it, but the "scam" being run is that we're supposed to believe that somehow Matt DOESN'T know it despite the fact he's the "tech guy" with the "tech channel" constantly covering all this stuff right...? WRONG he's lying.
@@phillyphil1513 Matt's unlisted the previous video and released something of a retraction.
Doesn't excuse it, I think. Anyone with a functioning brain would think "gee, solid state batteries are a big deal, I wonder if a consumer grade portable battery created by a Chinese company and sold on Amazon is where the first solid state battery is a likely place to make its debut".
Also he did no checking. Asked no questions of the company and clearly just banged out an "I'm first!" video for views / clout.
Backfired though.
This is what youtube tech channel like Matt Ferrell should do prior to make a video, not just some "pretty looking video promotion"
I looked one up. For a solid month i have received no served advertisements except for this product. That is such a red flag, they must dump everything into advertisements and nothing to develop the technology
Yoshino power teardowns reveal non solid state batteries in their power stations
Based on teardowns and analysis, it appears that Yoshino Power’s portable power stations, including the B330 and B4000 models, utilize non-solid-state batteries, contradicting their marketing claims of employing solid-state technology.
Key Findings
Liquid Electrolyte: Teardowns reveal the presence of a liquid electrolyte, a characteristic of traditional lithium-ion batteries, rather than a solid-state electrolyte.
NCM (Nickel Cobalt Manganese) Formula: The battery chemistry used by Yoshino Power is identified as NCM, which is a common formula for lithium-ion batteries, not solid-state batteries.
Safety Concerns: While Yoshino Power’s marketing emphasizes the safety benefits of solid-state batteries, the use of liquid electrolytes and NCM chemistry may still pose safety risks, such as thermal runaway and fires, similar to traditional lithium-ion batteries.
So many cheap overload protection algorithms do this. It's an issue with a lot of smart plugs with energy monitoring. They cut power off when your compressor turns on (refrigerator, window AC) and then your room gets warm or the food goes bad.
Hey Johnny. Think you could do a video review of solar trackers?
What options are there even self built, how much, etc..
Thx bud
Thanks bro for this information 💯