The Foundling - Resolving a Case of Unknown Identity Through the Use of Genetic Genealogy
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- On April 27, 1964, a nurse came into the hospital room of Dora Fronczak, who had just given birth to her young son, Paul. She took the baby and left, saying it was time to take the baby to the nursery. In reality, the nurse had stolen the baby. Authorities were never able to find the woman.
In 1965, a small toddler-aged boy was found, abandoned outside a store in New Jersey. DNA testing was not yet available, and blood tests were inconclusive. It was the shape of the child’s ears that caused authorities to believe the baby could be Paul Fronczak. The toddler was eventually sent to live with the Fronczaks in Chicago, and the case was considered closed. As an adult, Paul began to suspect that the couple who raised him were not his biological parents.
In 2012 Paul underwent DNA analysis to test his suspicions. The results showed that he was not the biological son of Dora and Chester Fronczak. His next step was to enlist the help of a genetic genealogist, CeCe Moore, to assist him in finding his true biological parents and his identity.
In this interview, we speak with both Paul and CeCe to learn more about the case, including what it was like for Paul and his family to navigate these revelations, challenges in discovering his true identity, and what is next for both of them.
To learn more about the case, be sure to watch their keynote address at the 31st International Symposium on Human Identification. Learn more and register here: www.ishinews.com. 
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I think, one of the happiest days of my life was when my son found me. I had left bread crumbs on Ancestry (I actually recorded his birth, with his birth mother's name in my family tree, and he was adopted by one of the birth mother's family members), and I think that is how he found me. He messaged me on FaceBook, and said he thought we might be related. So, I am not his "Dad". I was not there for him in all of the terrible times he had, but I am so happy that he has turned out to have made a really good life for himself, and has a wonderful family to support him!
Bread crumbs ❤ That's so cute and thoughtful.
I think the criticisms about the pace and content of this interview are uncalled for. This is not a made-for-TV movie edited for action and effect, it's a real conversation with people involved in a real life drama. Enjoy it for what it is.
Exactly Sharyl Z !! People are accustomed to TV, YT Channels, radio shows, etc, who are scripted & edited by professionals who produce shows for a living & most often have to edit them to a specific length. Viewers are very spoiled & apparently more impatient with "real" people having a discussion that is not scripted for a "show".
If viewers of this comment are impatient with a lengthy video, my hack is to go to settings (cogwheel icon) & go to Playback Speed. If a speaker has a slow speech cadence, or if a video is longer than 20 minutes, I often change the playback speed to 1.25. It cuts the viewing time significantly. For example, a 40 minute video is compressed down to 30 minutes. In the case of this 59 minute video; watching it at 1.25 speed will take the viewing/listening time down to approx. 44 minutes.
Why are they uncalled for? What’s wrong with constructive criticism? Everybody such a wuss nowadays.
Paul's good lookin..for sure
Sheryl Z I agree. They didn’t have to post this or even report on this.
My husband was an "under the table" adoption with no paperwork. He had been told he was born in one city but his parents had been living in another city at the time. The whole time I've known him (since high school) he wondered about his birth mother. Finally, at 72 he took Ancestry DNA test. He has been in contact with a woman who says he looks just like her uncle. She sent him a photo and said her aunt had lived in that city about the time he was born. He waited until both his parents were dead before taking the test because he didn't want to upset them. He just wants to know "who" he came from.
So, that lady's aunt was his mother? Was he able to meet her, or was she already deceased when he made the discovery? Was he able to learn the circumstances of why she had to give him up?
@@feliciagaffney1998 No. His uncle was a general surgeon and his parents had been married 15 years with no baby. One day his uncle called his mother and said, "I've got a baby. You want him?" Then 6 months later went to the country recorder and signed the birth certificate as a home birth and he as the attending physician.
@@marilyntaylor8652 that's pretty crazy. But, he is related somehow to the woman he met on Ancestry?
@@feliciagaffney1998 She was getting pushback from her family. She gave him a first name and hasn't answered him since. He didn't want to horn his way into the family or anything, and said so, he just wanted medical history.
@@marilyntaylor8652 well, that's sad. I'm sure it's their loss for not wanting to get to know him. Thank you for sharing.
Paul's parents' initial reaction of anger that he followed through on the DNA tests probably was bringing up intense grief about the son that was kidnapped. If Paul wasn't their birth son...then their birth son was still out there and they lhad ost him all over again. I feel for Paul, and I really feel for his parents.
Indeed! Thank goodness his mother got to meet the real Paul before he passed away. There's so much pain and loss in this fascinating story, but I believe that, ultimately, Paul did the right thing, the right thing for all involved.
His parents knew but didn't want to accept it, it's too obvious, he doesn't look like them AT ALL.
@@nillyk5671 when he was brought to them they said he wasn’t theirs, and they actually adopted him so he couldn’t be taken away at a later date. A few crimes were glanced over here. The police & FBI were pressing a child that any one could tell was not theirs , they could have at least done a blood test. They said they found the kid case over. # 2 Where is blond toddlers parents ? Was HE kidnapped? Was his mom killed & he dumped? # If blond boy is not theirs where is the real Paul. It’s because I read this story when it first came out ,No one in my family stays in the hospital alone.
The anger comes from a place of deep pain and grief. ❤️
@@blazefairchild465 If you read the blurb below the video, it says blood tests were inconclusive, so they did do blood tests.
I actually didn't know this was a thing until I started watching CeCe's show. I'm an adoptee, and I finally found my mom not using DNA. However, I've been doing the same thing as CeCe trying to find my paternal line. I'm excited that I've been doing it "right"! Thanks CeCe for being an inspiration!
The people who were involved in the stealing of baby Paul committed a criminal act and should be prosecuted. It was kidnapping, a severe crime.
Yes, but there’s a chance they’re no longer alive
The bad thing is there is a statute of limitations on kidnapping; it has a time frame. After a certain number of years the perp cannot be prosecuted.
@@patriciajrs46 there shouldn't be
I hope him or her is alive and I hope there caught , that’s gotta be one of the worst crimes to commits how can you live with yourself knowing you took a baby from its mommy hope that person rots in hell
@@joannemarsello3106 I truly wish people could spell. At least try to learn.
They were his parents. They raised him. Bad choice of words. My parents, actually my mom, felt the same way. She took it personal. I just wanted to know. I found my whole birth family, 7 full blood siblings, and both birth parents. But it didn't change the relationship between my adoptive parents and me. It just added more family to my life.
“Paul” is wonderful. He is so open and giving. I hope he finds his twin sister.
Sorry to say, his bio parents were abusive and twin sis is dead.
Carol Saia is that is how it ends😭😢💔
@@lauraleecreations3217 that's NOT what was said by them in the video!! Paul said he had wonderful parents, the news regarding the twin was unknown at the time of filming, as the search is still ongoing.
@@QuestionThingsUseLogic he was raised by wonderful parents.
@@carolsaia7401 He was put exactly where he belonged.
I love that DNA is giving us answers and truth. It’s so difficult to go through life without closure. This experience has taken Paul down a different life path. I hope that he can find his twin. Cece, you’re a godsend to so many people. I love hearing about all of your work. I have been following you for some time.
Hello Debbie
How are you doing today?
Paul you are a very brave man, I'm glad that you followed your natural intuition
I very much admire him.
Funny you mention the travelling salesman. My first DNA surprise was an ancestor who was a salesman who left behind more than he ever knew. Since then I have had two more surprises even closer to home. Fortunately for me, all the folks who created these situations are gone so we are just able to enjoy new relatives.
My girlfriends bio mom had an affair because of her trav sales husband gone too much. The married coupe tried to stay together but gave up baby and eventually divorce d...
Soooo wild. Your story is my exact story !!! Things I've figured out on my own and some help from my mom that I lost Two yrs ago Feb 9 Ancestry work has consumed a lot of my life in last 15 yrs. I'm getting burnt out !Trying to find a father for my father now !!
CeeCee is such an inspiration. Having done a lot of work on my own ancestry, have become obsessed with this aspect and if I was young, I would delve full bore into studying genetic genealogy as a career. It is so fascinating. The criminal aspect is so promising.
I was on my way to work when I heard of the kidnapping. I cried for the family. I’ve tried to follow it over the years. I’m so glad for the family to unravel the tragedy.
Hello Susan
How are you doing today?
My first child was born in Oct of the year Jack/Paul was taken from the hospital. I remember being very unhappy that she couldn't stay in the room with me. My husband even more so.
Sitting here watching you guys crying, as usual... I would have never guessed at 45 Id be finding out my parents weren't mine, but that's just where I am now.. Put a whole new spin on mid life crisis.. How do you ever find peace with knowing 45 years no one bothered to tell you something that big... So many questions I will never know the answers too and so many feelings all at one time.. A lifetime of going to psychiatrist and.a lifetime of destructive behaviors, addictions due to feeling like I didn't belong where I was and that I needed to go home and that I was all alone.. Turns out I was never crazy I was 100% right and every feeling I tried to bury and cover was absolutely knowing on a soul level what my mind is just finding out.. I can't help but feel a lot of heartache and pain coulda been avoided had someone just told me the truth when I was going thru those things from about 11 years old til only a few years ago..Now it all makes sense but even with DNA things still don't add up.. There's more mysteries than just mine hiding in these 70 thousand people and I will solve them before I leave this life.. To all you going thru similar situations I pray you find the answers and the peace you are looking for..
Dont give up, connections as you know are important, cousins, aunts, uncles, and even surprises. Many parents on both sides try to protect children at great cost because they are the ones that carry profound guilt and pain of secrets for a lifetime and the sometimes irrational decisions they make to avoid further harming the children. and the family.
@@msherman2888 thanks for your kind words.. I think I'm doing good all things considered and just happy to have my truth.. but just found another school friend who also knew but never said a word!!! Its like I'm the only one who didnt know and that kinda stings a bit but I know the people that raised me and my thought is they were following advice of the experts at the time.. Im baffled that they pulled of a forged birth record that was legit enough to get into school.. I'm amazed at being part of a HUGE family cause I never had that was just the 3 of us half my life. Im comforted knowing my intuition was right feeling I just didnt for and didnt belong but most of all I'm grateful for parents who not just gave me life but that made me the woman I am today.. without all 4 of them this beautiful person I'm becoming would not exist and now I have a LEGACY and story to pass to my future generations!! Seems I have some pretty interesting ancestors too♡♡
Prayers and blessings sent your way 🙏
@@tracylynn1461p
I have wondered for years if Paul/Jack had found anymore information on his family. So happy to hear this interview and the wonderful job Cece has done. God bless and thank you for sharing.
Thank you for the update. I saw this story years ago and always wondered if they found the real Paul Fronczak. Hope they eventually find Jill. Prayerfully no harm came to her and she's still alive and can reunite with her twin brother.
I am an adoptee + had no roots. In my 30s I discovered my blood mother's name. 30 years [!] later + 3 weeks ago I have traced my mother's family to 1847 Liverpool, England + 1865 Dublin, Ireland. Suddenly I have a family tree! Great- grandparents on both sides of my mother's family each had 10 children so there will have been plenty of offspring. My mother's mother - as was so common then - died in childbirth aged 29 when my mother was 5 or 6, the baby survived. However I now have a photo of my grandmother with 2 of her sisters + one of her alone. This is all before any DNA test, perhaps that will reveal something about my blood father. This has been so wonderful for me.
I was stolen as a baby too. I was raised by my abductor. I found my mother and two brothers a few years ago. It's mostly been ok A sister found me through Ancestry. It's a long story but it took a lot out of me to learn the truth. I am glad I did it. I wish I knew more. I don't know anything about my paternal side. She would not tell me who he was before she died.
Oh my goodness! I'll be that was a life-changing revelation. Thank you for sharing your story.
I'm so sorry you have had to go through that. How painful. I can't even imagine it.
Put your DNA on all the sites. A relative of your father is bound to pop up. Then you can probably track it from there. Usually even a cousin will know enough family member histories and their location's for you to nail it down pretty well.
Now THAT is heavy. I can't fathom being raised by you abductor.
Wow, this is so strong of you to share.
My daughter was trying to help a woman looking for her mother, who showed as related to her! So she had me do my DNA. This gave me a whole new family, discovering this woman was my sister, I had another sister and brother, the birth certificate father I never met was not my father! The surprise was that my mother while married to the birth certificate “father” had became pregnant by another man! A whole new ethnicity and a rich and loving siblings relationship!
Sounds like my story....🙂
❤️ happens more often than you’d think
SO happy for you that you’ve found a big family to share life with. 🎉🎉🎉
I AM x
Wow! How nice! Especially since you didn't have a relationship with the birth certificate father.
There is a whole podcast about these types of stories call 'Family Secrets'. I highly recommend it.
I thought this was really well done by the interviewer and enjoyed hearing all the participants viewpoints. Thank you to all three showing the light on very hard cases to solve and the dedication given. As an international adoptee from a county with not a lot of public information it can be disheartening to not find connections. But I enjoying hearing success stories of discovery! Salamat!
Sitting on another side of this equation and meeting my biological father at age 18, the heartache through the 12 additional years of his life with a yo-yo of acceptance, distance and what appeared as continuous dishonesty was difficult. There was never a doubt in my mind and I believe he knew as well. His actions on multiple times never matched his verbal deniabilities. In the end, he passed early with ALS with frontal lobe dementia that probably was part of the mistakes that were percieved as addition dishonesty like at the beginning. I truly believe he had a hard time disassociating me from his difficult time with my mother.
He was a wonderful father to my non-biological but fully accepted younger brothers, the same ages and generation of my own children.
Thanks to the inspiration from watching CeCe Moore and Family Fanatic on youtube, at the beginning of the shelter in place we are all going through, I decided at age 73 to find my great grandfather’s parents. No one knew who they were. I taught myself trialgulation, clustering and all sorts of things about DNA....and after 3 months of 12-15 hours a day of incredibly difficult work, I found his mother, who was a spinster living with her elderly parents. She apparently was having relations with a farmer neighbor and the married valley blacksmith....she had named her son after the neighbor but DNA showed he was definitely the son of the blacksmith. Not he, nor his mother, nor his wife and 11 children really knew who he was....but we do now. Thank you all you youtube teachers.
What a wonderful story - thanks for sharing!
I am intrigued because I seem to be having this trouble with one of my lines...even y Dna points to many other surnames so I have a mystery on my hands - a lothorio Latin lover or a serial rapist I just don’t know lol
Wow I would be the same, my Best friend was adopted in 1961 and as teens we talked about finding her birth mother, not sure how but I believe I was given Divine intervention ( a voice in my head) and I sent a message to who I believed was her biological brothers!, my hunch paid off, best gift I could of given anybody. Best of luck in your searching. Xx
Wow, Lynn - wonderful story. My mother had a similar experience! I love to hear genealogy mysteries and NPE’s
to accept it.... they have to revisit pain of kidnapping and loss of baby , so sad
My interest in genealogy started about 20 years ago when playing around on ancestry that I learned that my father's ancestry was different from what I had always been told due to a family dispute regarding my gggrandmother and her biological daughter and her mother's grandson. My cousins had a hard time accepting the information that we were not exactly who our parents made us believe we were.
I had little ones in 1964 and I grieved for that mother thru the years. I never felt the boy they found was theirs.
I bet they knew too but needed a balm for their pain so they told themselves it was...
Laughed when heard you were afraid to find you aren't as Irish as you think. I was 1/4 Italian until I did DNA. Turns out my Italian was actually Polish. Loving my new Polish family and now concord to over 100 of the Polish cousins.
I would totally want to know if I had a twin, but would be gob-smacked with grief for missing all of those years together.
You go in with an open mind. My shock subsided after discovering 3 love child from grandparents. The 4th love child was discovered just 3 months ago. Basically you just talk about everything about the parents and how this all happened
I love CeCe, but I don't think anyone could ever help me solve the mystery of my biological mother and half brother. 🥺 She was adopted and she lied on my adoption papers. Thankfully I am pretty sure I've found my biological father, but still trying to confirm it with testing. I'm also thankful I had an amazing family that loved me unconditionally ❤️.
Don't give up. My bio Mom gave a false name at the hospital. I did my DNA in 2019 and just kept following different leads. It took a couple of years to get my bio-Mom's name. Both of my bio parents are gone but I finally know who they were and both of their histories.
Don't forget not all findings are happy ones. I gave up a child who was the product of rape. When she found me 2 years ago, I was shocked. I had nothing against her, but my feelings of hatred for her father were still with me after 50 years. We have forged a friendship, but I have to struggle at times to keep her father out of my mind. It is a mixed feeling. But I am glad to have her in my life now. So forgive your mother, be grateful for your life and understand there are times that it is better not knowing. You are so blessed as my daughter was to have been raised in a loving family.
@@cellgrrlI can understand-but also understand that when we don’t know, our imaginations can come up with some terrible stories. Knowing the truth, even when it isn’t a “good” story, it puts those imaginings to rest.
I’m sure your daughter is so thankful you have been able to have any relationship in the present. ❤️
Such care and sensitivity in this conversation. It restores a wavering faith in human loving kindness and respect. Congratulations
Hello Julia
How are you doing today?
So glad for update that Paul’s mom is still living and finally came around. It had to be so threatening and hard on the Fronczak’s to go through all the trauma. Can’t wait to hear the rest of the story of who the real Fronczak baby is.
Someone is going to be in trouble for kidnapping him.
PoodleParti Hopefully, the real Paul Fronczak, who died recently, will have family that can put the piece’s of the puzzle together. Very likely kidnapper is dead.
He recently passed away from cancer.
@@V.E.R.O. Just curious where the information can from that died I haven't found anything about that.
@@WowWhatTheHeezy Someone on a RUclips video (maybe this one) said he had died from cancer and told me his name, maybe they heard it on the news. So I did a search of his name and found an obituary with a pic, he looks nothing like the age progression posters but he looks a lot like his father and brother. I don't remember what the name was though, I'll see if I can find it.
I am happy that your mom felt better about you doing the research.
I just read Paul’s book this summer. Fascinating and he retells the story so well.
Cece is a gift
Hello Lisa
How are you doing today?
@@thomsonsmith95 Good morning Im just listening to Paula Zahn I signed up for discovery. How are you?
Thank you for what you do. The world needs more people like you to get involved.
I have had to watch this video in bits, because it is so long. I don’t remember if it was this video about Paul or another where they discussed the parents who abandoned him, but they were horrible. He was told that he and Jane were kept locked up in a dark room and left to cry their lungs out. There is a good chance that Jane was killed, and then Paul was abandoned. Abandoning him was probably the kindest thing those monsters could have done for him. He wound up being raised by loving parents in a good home. I hope he finds Jane, whether she is dead or alive. Maybe she was abandoned in another city and had a loving family adopt her too. Even if she is dead, Paul deserves to know, and Jane deserves to be remembered.
Jill...I think the horrible parents killed her and buried her...
I imagine if they were fearful of losing him, they would not have quit speaking to him for 2 years?
I dont know about that. Dont you think part of it could have been a way to protect themselves from rejection, or their perceived rejection. Sometimes people cut themselves off to avoid being hurt. I know that seems hard to believe when it's your child but this is when they were elderly. Sometimes with life experiences people try to protect their pride. IDK we all experience things differently in our lives and at different times in our lives.
From Judy in Australia 🇦🇺. I don’t see it that way. Anger is a stage of grief and that took predominance in their reaction. Also, they believed Paul was their son. To find out he wasn’t for sure, meant confronting the fact they were wrong in that belief but also the truth that their biological son was still missing. Some people find truth extremely confronting and confusing which makes them angry and hurt so much so, it took 2 years to resolve. Don’t forget they were older and obviously felt it was better to “let sleeping dogs lie”. ❤️🇦🇺
@@lesterbock9851 My thoughts also.The pain of not knowing if their bio Son was safe or not was torture if they found out the Paul they raised wasn't him.
I can see being hurt and fearful, but cutting your child out of your life is also losing them.
I thoroughly enjoyed that series. I wish it was longer.
I find this very interesting and fascinating simply because im adopted. Although my parents told my everything about my biological mother that they knew. I didn't know anything about my biological father recently. I did a DNA test and found out he was French. Now, at 68, I know about my total ancestor history. This is all fascinating to me. I've had a wonderful life with my parents and family. I've been so blessed to have had them as my parents. The value is beyond measure.
Wish I could find out about my adoption back in 1961 but I hit a roadblock years ago even my birth cert is very questionable
At least there is a remote possibility through DNA now, if you use multiple sites for DNA testing and upload and share it and allow for connections you might just find distant relatives that connect you to biological family.
Birth date?
I think that this was a big take-away from this video - it is now possible to decipher stuff that just a few years ago was not possible to figure out. So do 23 and Me and Ancestry DNA and Family History(?) and see what relatives you can find.
DNA....I found EVERYONE!!!
Hope you found something via DNA. It really struck me when they said in the video that the 60s were a time where black market babies were a big thing... a lot of kidnappings were to sell the child to couples who wanted a child and were willing to pay to move up the list faster. A lot of lawyers back then doing private adoptions worked knowingly with those who were just brokering babies - because everyone wanted a baby and not an older child. Questionable birth certs tend to imply one of these sad situations. Hope you get a resolution that brings peace not only to you, but to your birth family.
I kept waiting for Paul to tell us whether he has been able to build relationships with his biological family. Seems like that part of the story is missing.
Read Paul’s book
Yes. This story is so badly told. It seems like they just string you along. They tell you one fact about every 10 minutes. And then leave you hanging.
What's the name of the book?
@@cocod594 The Foundling
I love Dave’s videos. Very informative and interesting. Dave is providing a great service to inform people of these cases. He’s followed by many people for good reason. Something is going on and he’s the only one to do research on the missing persons! He’s a good story teller and seems to be a genuinely nice person. Good luck Dave and keep making these wonderful videos! Also, please stay safe. Much love and respect❤️!
Hello Linda
How are you doing today?
The parents anger was also the realization that there birth son was still missing.
I have been binging whatever I can watch on this story since I I first heard about it a year or so ago. I never heard that his adoptive parents reacted so negatively. Such a shame since he would later learn his birth parents are dead and his siblings have disowned him.
This is interesting. I love watching Long Lost Family produced in the UK. One story that I have never forgotten is the one of the Gatwick Baby. I've been waiting to learn that the grown man (Gatwick Baby) has come up with some genetic discovery. I've enjoyed watching this video.
That does sound interesting!
The Gatwick baby has found his biological parents.
Long Lost Family UK is the best show! I think I've watched all of them now though!
When I first saw this video , more specifically Jack, I cant get my head off of Chris Jacob's ,the Host of Long Lost Family here in the States! Anyone else seeing the resemblance??!:)
how did Paul's adopted parents
react to finding real Paul in
Michigan.
Did you not watch past 41:00? Dora spoke to her biological son twice on the telephone. They had plans to meet, but unfortunately his ill health and the pandemic prevented that before his death.
I do wish that people would stop saying "you know " constantly.
I wish you weren't a jetk but we can't all get what we want.
Does nobody realize the torture this couple, (Paul's parents,) were experiencing because of knowing that their child was still therefore unaccounted for? This wasn't about just Paul. Their biological son was still unaccounted for if Paul proved to not be their child.
To add they have found the real Paul so whilst Paul was lost and sort of lost again the real Paul has been found and hopefully can be reunited with his real mom
@@cathybaldry7822 hope so
Noone has said that you're wrong.
As I had never heard Pail’s story this interview is confusing as to what happened. Needed a brief intro to lay out the case.
A couples baby was stolen from the hospital. They a both short & have brown hair as did the baby. 18 month s later a blonde baby is found & police tell them it's theirs .No one else claims him so they take him as their own & raise him .. He grows up to be a very tall handsome blond teen & even modeled in magazine s. He finds paperwork his mom had made out that they adopted him, because she didn't want whoever's had him come & get him back. And all the newspaper clippings. Finally they found out from DNA.
Or...maybe you could have taken 2 minutes to read all the backstory under the little tab labeled, "See More". IDK, it might have worked, SMH.
There are many many RUclips videos about his story if you look up his name here on RUclips. Very detailed stuff starting at the very beginning.
@@blazefairchild465 thank you!
The information could of been given to you more politely. Why people have to be rude and condescending, takes the same amount of energy.
This guy is so handsome, I feel like I saw him on tv some time ago but his hair was darker. His hair turned white real fast.
I'm adopted and EVERYONE deserves to know who they are! How dare ANYONE say otherwise. That said, adoptees should be prepared to find out difficult information. There's a reason why adoptions take place and often times the biological parents are not the most solid citizens and more than likely, they remain that way now.
I’m adopted as well , well said !!
#Truth #adopteeslivesmatter #metoo
I agree.
This guy seriously has to write a book!! This interview was quite choppy and missed pieces, hard to follow, so a book that got things in order would be great. I'd be the first to buy it!
And a true movie...
Jeremy he did write a book the fondling 🤔 I think
He had already wrote a book and was on a program on TV that was about finding lost relatives or DNA. Well it is posted in this video.
He wrote 2
This Paul/Jack's mother's response to quickly brush it off so quickly says to me she has always know that this Paul/Jack was not her son.
Hello Cathy
How are you doing today?
Did she ever meet the real Paul that Jack found?
Telling a synopsis in the beginning and THEN going into details would be better. Because I got lost with it wandering along a trail.
No just pay attention.
It is so sad Paul's parents were so narrow-minded to not be able to see how tortured someone could be wanting to know their real identity. I know, for millennia, this kind of thing continued and everyone just had to accept situations and there was no such thing as ``actualizing one's total, true identity.'' Even the Tudor kings barely acknowledged their bloodline held common blood! My own great-great grandma was known to have run away from her previous husband, with my great-grandpa as a babe in her arms. They went to another state and just changed his name and never even had any papers. There was never any talk of him desiring to return and find his biological father.
You spelled " It's so said his parents endured the trauma of the death of a child and the kidnapping of another" wrong.
@@saraschneider6781 haha very funny.
@@quickchris10 I wasn't being funny
@@saraschneider6781 Well not really laughing. You were being sarcastic, and so was I. Rewatching, immediately I'm struck at the beginning of the story that the parents got mad he found his birth certificate and told him to not ask them any more questions about it, to stuff it, is why I immediately put a couple chalk tic-marks in the column of cons against his parents.
The show starts in the middle of a conversation, I don't know who the real son to whom they refer would be or where they are getting this info. I guess they were the Chicago victims and they suffered the kidnaping, is why it was so painful for them to talk about. Still not relatable. It just goes to show you how old-school people don't talk.
Sounds like a lot of “parents” are going to be going to jail.
I think that depends on records that they they committed the crime. These other parents could have what they thought was a legal adoption. This opens a new can of worms.
Of course, if possible, you are completely correct.
I haven't seen any other information that isnt in this video but I do wonder if there was prosecution of those who were caring for him for the first 2 years, too.
There is a woman whose sperm donor dad wasn't her dad. The creepy doctor used his own sperm. She is making legislation to make that illegal and punishable. She was so disoriented with her parentage..she initially got a Dna test because of her son's health probs.
There is also an old realization that they claimed an accepted a child that wasn’t their son. They probably realized this in the beginning but people pushed the idea that it was their son. It was an easy thing to accept and as years go by he was their son it didn’t matter. As time and the secrets came out those things must have been feared as punishable. And it was a public thing that happened and would start all over again. It’s very overwhelming.
This complete process probably saved his life and gave him more than he would have had.
It did give him more than he would've had....I heard the other one had a hard less fortunate life...
Genealogy is the search about the biological connection to go back a far as possible. My ex husband is the important spouse in my tree as he is the father of my children and my current husband has a totally separate tree as his search is not mine. My name is in his tree as second wife and he is in my tree as second husband. Neither of us is offended. His grandchildren are still mine and vice versa but that doesn’t change the REAL biological connection situations. When the children are young and are confused to the situation I say to them that they are the grandchildren of my heart. ❤
Saddest thing to me is he has a twin sister. They've never found her. I think she died and they abandoned him and pretended like the twins never existed from then on. His birth family rejected him ridiculously cruelly. But, on par with ppl who just leave a toddler in new Jersey.
Are you saying the twin, Jill, died at birth or very young? Where do you know all this from? Do you have any links I could watch?
Fascinating and thought provoking!
Thank you. Very interesting. Blessings to you all. I wish the best to all involved.
I’m an adoptee as are my children. I wish the terminology in this were more appropriate such as biological child/parents not real. The real parents are the ones who raise you. I have done my DNA and I have gotten information about my birth family which has been helpful in learning about my health history and some other things. I love my family and am so grateful to my parents for the wonderful life and love they’ve always given me. I wish they were here to share this.
Jenna I totally agree. I have a daughter-in-law who was adopted by her real parents. She searched for her biological parents for genetic reasons. She found her deceased bio-mom and got answers for the genetic questions she needed. Her bond with her real parents remains strong.
How about 'genetic parent' or 'genetic child'?
Thank you!! Same here. People do not understand the small difference in meaning on their end is very large to someone that is adopted.
Real parents to me are the parents that raised me.
Biological parents or birth parents are the ones that made me.
Parents without any qualifier are again the parents that raised me.
Actually it's the genetic % that matches will give you the important info. My niece matched 24%. That's pretty high up there. I took the 23&me test. My first half cousins I grew up with matched 4-7% . I don't reach out to anyone with less then 3% match. That would be a 4th or 5th cousin
I'm glad you found answers. Don't ever allow yourself guilt on seeking heritage. Your parents are your parents no matter if by adoption or birthing. They all sacrifed to give you the best in life. Your really fortunate to be that special to so many
It would be awesome to get the full story it is so interesting.
One of my adopted kids asked me for the 18 the birthday a DNA test, to get some info about the past. So we turned to My Heritage and had the test done… no DNA was detected. My Heritage sent us a second kit, we went for it… no DNA was detected. They asked me if my kid was undergoing Chemo, or if the kid had any known genetic difference… none, this is a healthy kid. They sent us a 3rd and then a 4rd kit… no DNA was detected. And as a former crime scene investigator, believe me, I DO know how to run this test. So now at 22, my kid hasn’t decided if trying with another company would be worth the stress of just receiving the same response: No DNA detected.
I just read that the real paul passed away from cancer in 2020, but his bio mom got to talk with him before he passed. Just very sad but I am glad she had some conversations with him before he passed.
I vacillate between wanting and being terrified to put my DNA out there. There is a possibility that I could have a sibling out there, most likely Vietnamese. I know my father had a relationship when he was there, so it is possible. I don’t know if there are any other possibilities. I’d like to know but don’t as well. It’s so scary.
What is your fear? If so, and they are receptive, new adventures are ahead. If rejected, that is about them. However, since they have taken the test, they know this is a possibility.
My daughter has a similar situation. She is going to take the test and hold her breath.
Can't wait to hear the 'surprises'🤲
Also too those elderly parents may have just convinced themselves that he was their real son so they didn’t have to face the grief that their biological son was probably dead
I could see that being a distinct possibility. I understand how people can convince themselves of something like that.
I read that it was a notorious "welfare mom" in Chicago who took him possibly. An older child said she brought home a newborn with no explanation about that time. Whatever happened to the Lindberg Law that made kidnapping a death penalty? It should be reinstated. God only knows how that mother suffered.
I have done a DNA test and started a family tree, but so far I am only getting family relatives from my Father's side of the family ( His sir name and thru his Mother's maiden name ). Fortunately, a nephew and a niece have found their biological father's through my family tree. I knew about the niece that had been adopted out after her birth and which of my brother's was her father, but I wasn't aware of the nephew that contacted me. The strangest thing about that was that the person that helped him to figure out which of my brother's was his biological father, told me that he lined up in the Seiferth Family Tree but I didn't. I thought, that's kind of weird because the only biological constant between me and that brother was that we had the same Mother and her maiden name was Seiferth and she was born and raised in Germany. Why would I not line up in the same gene pool? I have asked the question, but of course had been put down and made to feel guilty for it; and because the adopted adult children located my brothers thru my family tree ( and I guess my DNA ), I shouldn't have any questions in my head. My Mother did like to mess with my head sometimes. I think she got a kick out of it. I also know that another bother had a little girl that he was forced to sign adoption papers on ( he didn't know they couldn't force him, but they simply lied to him and he didn't know any better ) and the fact that he will never know his daughter still hurts him to this day. He was still married to the woman when she gave birth to their baby, but he never knew about the baby until he was notified of the need for his signature. My brother's name is Joseph A. Holcomb and his wife at that time was Melissa and she was from Iowa, but he said she had the baby is either N. or S. Carolina and the baby was adopted to a Lawyer and a College Professor. It's strange how circumstances and situations come about that change peoples' lives. I sure hope the little girl had a good life and was loved. The lawyer was supposed to give the little girl a letter that he wrote for his daughter when she became of age. He never got to see the baby or every hold her. Now, Joe has been diagnosed with a rare genetic blood disorder that we believe he might have inherited from our Mother ( Anti-phospholipid Syndrome). It is dangerous to have that and not know it, yet it happens. Joe didn't know he had it until one day his body had numerous blood clots and he came close to losing his life. I am so thankful to God that Joe is still with us. Bless you all for your strength and for your assistance in all you do.
Hello Melinda
How are you doing today?
Wow I was adopted at 5days, my parents didn’t tell me, found out on accident but deep down I always knew. I found my birth mom contacting the delivering doctor (on my birth certificate) and from her I learned a totally different story than my parents were told by the adoption agency. My birth mother also changed part of her story, I learned later from a brother that my natural father was a different person than my natural siblings. I never kept contact with the mom, but I’d like to know which DNA test is best to learn my medical history?
Probably 23 and Me.
Ancestry DNA
Cece Moore is an absolute hero!
This is a combination of newer science, and someone's, unique profound, and personal life story. Each one has its long and short-term revelations, and knowledge that helps piece together a person's identity, and the next generation's genealogy. It affects everyone involved.
To Ann MacPhetridge... and ANY OTHER READERS AND ANCESTRY FOLKS OUT THERE!!!!!!
As an adoptee myself... I do wish you would not use the catch phrase "real parents" !!!
Some 30 years ago without DNA, no computers .. AT ALL... no cell ones, one landline, a public Library in NYC, I found my birth mother in 24 hours...
At that time I was a 27 year old ADULT, mother of two. It was a very challenging position to be in much less try to navigate my way to bringing these 2 women together.... over ME. I was introducing my mother to my mother...just think about that last sentence. Think about that for another moment. Then come back after reading this and read that sentence again.
My mom, mother, mum, the one who raised me will ALWAYS be that. My mother .. natural, true, birth, what ever adjective anyone selects will ALWAYS be that as well ... Finding my birth mother does not make her any more or less REAL than the mother that raised me...
Both my mothers were REAL ... they were the "collective mothers" who made me who I am. Me ... the strong, empowered, educated, kind, giving, empathetic, and any other words that have been used to describe me by others and that I can now can see and say about myself....
Now re-read that sentence.... in fact I will type it again and save you and other readers the trouble..... I was introducing my mother to my mother...
An awesome search angel solved my paternity and then taught me how to do it. I have been hooked ever since :)
This is fascinating.
What about Paul's biological parents? Has he spoken to them?
I could not make head or take what this was actually about. Too long, it’s assumed you know the story which I don’t.
Very confusing and they don't get to the point.
Myself and my daughter really need your HELP. First paternity test in 88 was inconclusive and our lives have never been the same since.
Order a DNA test from one of the ancestry or DNA health sites and go from there and see if you can find answers that way.
We did Ancestry DNA. A match came back with someone I have never seen nor had sex with. The father of my child never knew his father. The man that came back as a possible match is his brother. point is the first paternity test would have said negative if he was not the father not inconclusive.
@@kimberlycombs5431 It's the same thing...
@@wandastevens3183 are you saying inconclusive means negative because it most certainly does not
@@kimberlycombs5431 Have you confirmed through DNA testing that you are your daughter's biological parent? If it doesn't make sense for the man who appears to be your daughter's biological father to be her father, chances are you are not her biological mother either. You may be dealing with a case of two babies being switched at birth. Whatever the case, I'm really sorry for your troubles!
Thanks for sharing. I love genealogy.
Fascinating! Will have my DNA test done now. Maybe there is somebody out there trying to locate and join my large family 🙃
Wow thank you it has inspired me to take the next step
I didn’t retest on FTDNA but was able to upload my dna. I did later do my MTDNA and my brothers Y dna on FTDNA. I have to say the maternal and paternal DNA seems to get the most hits. A cousin of mine using traditional methods found me. His dad and my grandfather were brothers.
I'm so glad that he finally has answers. God bless.
Cece did I miss anything about Paul's (Jack's) biologic parents. It would be interesting about reactions & interactions.
See the video "Writing a True Story with Emma Faith and Paul Joseph Frozniac". He tells all.
@@teresaoconnell4790 Thank you, I will watch that vid now.
Biological parents are dead, they were abusive. Actually his biological families on both sides are really messed up, it's speculated they murdered Jill which led to Jack's abandonment to make it seem like the twins had been sent to live with relatives. Pics of the twins were destroyed and the family told not to mention the twins again.
@@teresaoconnell4790thank you!
@@V.E.R.O. wow, tragic
Thanks, Cece, for telling us what you do/know is "over our heads." On the other hand, Paul/Jack, I hope you find your twin sister soon. Good luck.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video!🦌💌❤️🙏✌️👍
My adoptive son is mine & mine alone. He grew in my heart not under my heart. He has always known he was adopted. I told him if he wanted to I would help him find his birth parents, he doesn't want to. He may not be my biological son with our genes, but as far as my husband & I are concerned, he was ours. My son said it would. Be like meeting strangers. We know where we got certrain traits & if he wanted to know his, he should be able to look. Adoptive parents should not be so touchy, you know your family, let him know his.
I'm so glad the real Paul was found. I had heard about this story before they had found the real Paul. The part of the story that always made me so sad, was that the real Paul was out there and that maybe he had a horrible life. Now that they have found the real Paul, I am glad that it seems that Paul was stolen and raised by a loving family. It must be so sad and scary to be the real Paul and find out that your mother stole you from a hospital. I understand that the real Paul must need time to process this information. I wish they had found him when the Fronczak's were alive. They deserve to know what happened to their son and to meet him in this life before they passed. What an amazing story! I hope they find the twin sister who is also missing.
The adopted son found the real son. The real son asked for privacy as he was having health issues and has since passed. Before he died he was able to meet his mother and they shared many phone calls. Can't remember all the details but there are clips out there if you Google.
@@nikiTricoteuse Wow!. I'm sorry the real Paul is now gone. I hope P/Jack finds his sister.
I think I heard last year the real Paul have a hard life,and at the time Paul found him,...he had a bad cancer and lived not too long after that and wanted privacy because of his sickness too,and I think may be passed now,but not sure...
I hope that Jill is found also- I realize that there may have been developments now ( August 2022) - this was all a while back. But a beautiful girl-version of yourself! Wowsers How could THAT neat Thing be!
I appreciate what CeCe Moore said about matches. There are reliable. There is a reason people who share a lot of DNA with you that it is not a mistake, not a false positive and a surprise to take seriously.
I love the fact that we can connect family members like this, we are looking for our grandfather. My mother did not know who her father was. I think I have found him, but I would like a closer DNA match before I feel confident. I have spoken to his son, who would be my uncle if it is him And I have asked if he would do his DNA, I think he is giving it some thought but is hesitating a bit.
I also think it is wonderful that we can use DNA to find criminals. I put my own DNA on GEDmatch so that law-enforcement can use it if they so desire to look for criminals.
I think their reasoning was different than that cited in this interview. You see to accept that he was not the child that had been stolen means their baby was still lost. So it would bring grief and worry about what happened to their baby no matter how much they loved the child they had raised.
Their reasoning was not different. They did not lie.
We have situations with some extended family members. A sister-in-law gave a baby boy up for adoption around 50+ years ago and a few years ago she got the call that her son was trying to find her. He has become a much loved member of the family. He even said to SIL "Is it wrong of me to think I like my bonus family better than the family who raised me?" The second part of this story is that this SIL's brother adopted a baby boy and some time after, moved his family to Colorado. This baby boy all grown up decided he wanted to find his birth mother. As it turned out the birth mother and her boyfriend were not prepared at the time to care for a baby so they placed him for adoption. They later went on to get married and have 3 daughters together. The birth parents were known to many of the adoptive family members The three daughters went to school with family members they did not know were family. The birth mother had passed away a few years ago but this nephew was delighted to find out he had a bonus father and three sisters. His bonus father is also in a service club with his uncle. These are two adoptions in the same family that really turned out well. It's interesting how interconnected the family's are.
Because of this video that I watched in December 2020 an
d Cece's DNA Detectives' search angel I was able to find my biological father (having found I was adopted at age 69!)! Also the search angel found my 9 times grandparents were John Alden & Pricilla Mullins of the Mayflower. The search angel also lead me to find a half sister and her family (living near where I grew up). That half sister did not know her biological father, so I was able to fill in that void as well. We met in the summer of 2021!
What an incredible story - thanks for sharing!
You were adopted at age 69?
@Susan Wilusz No, she didn't find out she was adopted until she was 69 years old. That's funny though.
One of the most difficult cases I have had to date was a fourth generation adoptee. Took me 3 years to solve.
Oh my goodness! I imagine that was very difficult!
👍👍👍
This video is dated May 11, 2020. I've read the book and checked the FB page. Are there any new developments you can share?
Hi Liz, we don't have any updates yet, but hope to after CeCe and Paul deliver their keynote address this September. We'll keep you posted!
Cece has such strong integrity.
Excellent!
very interesting thankyou to the 3 of you
Thank you for a wonderfully conducted 3-way interview/conversation.
I had my adopted brother do Ancestry DNA. What do we do with the info now?