ISHI 2020 Keynote Address: Resolving a Case of Unknown Identity Through Genetic Genealogy
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2020
- It's a story that involves a famous unsolved kidnapping case, buried secrets, a family with murder, lies, a 55-year-old cold case, and incredible genealogical detective work.
It began with a DNA test in 2012; in an instant the man raised as Paul Fronczak had no name, no birth-date, no medical history, no known relatives, no past, no pictures - nothing to identify himself. He was an unidentified living person.
This is the story of how Paul, genetic genealogist CeCe Moore, and a group of volunteers pieced together a family mystery. Hear the latest on Paul’s unique story and learn more about the possibilities that genetic genealogy can unlock during this joint keynote presentation at the 31st International Symposium on Human Identification.
Learn more about the symposium on our website: www.ishinews.com 
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Paul provided updates to his story in the November 2020 issue of The ISHI Report: promega.foleon.com/theishireport/november-2020/updates-on-paul-fronczaks-story/.
Was Paul's sister ever found?
@@saraschneider6781 I read they believe she died early on. It's a hard story.
My Jewish girlfriend who knew she was adopted did the ancestry dna test and found out she was actually Mexican! And THEN she found her biological father who never ever knew that she even existed. And on top of that he never ever had any other children and always regretted it. It was the happiest ending you could ever dream of. Strangely he can’t remember who it was he had slept with in order to try and help her find her mother. Apparently he was a really good looking ladies man back in the day.
My mom who was given up to a couple that couldn't have children. Found out in her 30s the parents that raised her weren't her bio parents. She was given the name of her birth mother Rita. Rita did not want to meet my mom and would not disclose who her father was. She found who she suspected to be her father but he had passed away 50 years prior. We found her father's grand children and they agreed to test with ancestry. It was confirmed that the man she suspected to be her father was indeed her father. Not only that but slowly one by one my mom started getting close family matches. It turned out that Rita had 4 daughters. She gave all of them away. My mom and Linda turned out to have the same father they were full sisters. Judy and Kathy had the same father and were half sisters to my mom and Linda. DNA and ancestry thank you
Wow. That's a painful story with a somewhat good ending. Her mom could have suffered from some kind of mental condition called pregnancy denial. It's too bad people aren't given the tools they need to deal with their mental health problems in that country.
What a great story.
I love that you figured it all out.
I hate secrets. Everyone has a right to know their bio parents.
I was always told a particular man was my father. At the age of 18, I learned I didn't carry his last name; I was legally named after my mother. They said it was because when I was born, 4/19/43, they were not married so I had to have my mother's last name. Years later, after 911 I went to Motor Vehicles in Maine, to have my license renewed. My BC, that had been in the same place in my wallet for years, was not there. I had to send for another BC in New Jersey and it came with someone else's name on it as my father. (I had not had a father's name on my original BC). The name was the brother of the man I thought was my father. My sister and I ultimately did DNA testing and it was determined we were sisters, but there was a big enough difference that a questioned remained if we were full blooded sisters. A friend of mine knew a geneologist and she told her what the numbers were without the backstory. She said it sounded as if we were half siblings with a very closely related parent (father). That kind of information screws with every part of one's being. Later, we found some other relatives in NJ and they said they knew I existed and could never find me. I asked them how they knew I existed and they said, "Because your Kevin's daughter." They always knew I existed but disappeared. Apparently, my mother was married to Bill's brother and she ended up living with Bill and having four more children after me. Bill had also run off, leaving behind two other families (apparently never divorced). That explained so much in my life. They were always in hiding.
CeCe you are a pioneer! Thank you for your work! I am obsessed with genealogy. Do you have any suggestions on classes? Websites? where I can start to learn from the bottom up especially with the DNA end. I am trying to solve some mysteries in my family and have a hard time figuring out GEDMATCH. Again, THANK YOU for all of your work and the hope and help you and your teams give these people.
Hi MJ - CeCe has a Facebook group as well called DNA Detectives: facebook.com/groups/DNADetectives/. That would be a great place to start.
My sister has a mystery case. We have been lookfor her father for 21 years. This gives me hope.
Jenny Gray there is hope! I started my ancestry journey over 10 years ago and knew there were 4 children given up for adoption. All have been identified. Also found another cousin who was surprised to find out her father was not her biological dad. My fathers cousin is her bio dad. It’s amazing what dna can reveal.
My sister father never new about her. Now after searching for over 2 decades,she finally did the ancestry DNA and doesn't have 1 match on her fathers side as of yet. I am hoping there will be in the future. I actually met him when I was little and remember him. What he looks like. But its not enough.
Jenny Gray my friend had no information at all on her birth father. Her bio mom died and when she met her half sister she was told that the bio mom didn’t know who the dad was. She found him 2 years ago. Don’t give up hope. 🌸
I won't because I know that my sister has another older sister. I know her name and how old she was before my sister was born.
I could give you tips on how to find him
Have her take a Ancestry DNA test
After you get the results, make an account, Go on Facebook and look for a group that has SEARCH ANGELS 😇....they have the tools to find people, they can make a family tree to link her to her father....good luck
A five hour delay gave that woman a huge head start. You can be in any number of states in five hours even by car.
Thank you for your your work in this intriguing quest!!!!
Well done. Thank you.
This was so interesting, love it, definitely sunscribed.
Great program!
you are truly amazing and I'm truly grateful for all you have achieved and wish you every success in what you want to achieve in the future. as a family historian i love family history and when DNA came into the aquation it got even more exciting. how i wish i could have been a genetic Genealogist. You have certainly given me hope that i will be able to find my Cousins Fathers family. all they know about him is he's Irish and born in 1915, he thinks he was born on a boat and he also believes he is illegitimate and may have been raised by his grandparents they have know idea what his grandparents names are or anything about his parents. So thank you for giving me hope . i wish you and your team every success.
Have you watched”Lion”?
DNA testing will solve it.
I love this show and the work she does.
*Genetic genealogy gives people what they crave most...answers, justce and closure.*
Amazing story!!!!!! Congratulations on your journey!
Yes wow thats awesome to use past memwories to bring forth past hidden knowledge.
🙏🤍🏆💙💛
Thank you so much for your nice presentation.
This is a great story!
Iv been told I have a brother but I cant find him, I know names of people involved, but not his. Im in my 50s and grew up a only child, I just wish I could find him💔💝
Why don't you take a DNA test? You could have someone help you figure it out
@@randomvintagefilm273 I did on Ancestry, need help finding maybe a child of his or something.
Use the Organization “Find People Fast”…. They really helped me..
@Queen Alice Kingsley White pages helps and other online people finder sites. It take a couple of tryst without paying but you will beabke to find them. Couple of things tbough; make sure you are putting g in the place they may live. Most biological family will remain in the same place when the adoptee is adopted or after the adoptee move in there new family. Secondly, predicted age. Thirdly, look for other relative that may be associated with the person you are looking for. Fourth, you may want to think of purchasing a different DNA test from a different company as sometimes family me.ber may be more numerous on both.
I took both 23andMe and Ancestery and my first hit was 23andme and my big second was Ancestery.
So interesting. Thank you for sharing. 🌺
Cece Moore you are amazing ❤
I will be glad to meet Paul one day
I wonder, if Paul (Jack) was able to find bio relatives, did he find his bio parents too?.
If so, what is the story of why was Paul (Jack) left abandoned at a store in his stroller and what they say ever happened to Jill?
The real Paul wouldn't know his parents bought a stolen baby
I couldn't raise some child if there was even an Inkling he might not be mine. As heartbreaking as it would be, I would be thinking of the other mother.
When I told my dad's sister I was doing DNA, she became really hostile, and said, "You better not. You might find out things you don't want to know." Turns out, she had already done DNA, and she's not my aunt. Some distant cousin. The investigation continues.
She cannot tell you what to do. It's your right to know about your origins.
❤ What a journey❣️
This is my first video and it’s ironic, because I thought if we can get people to do DNA I immediately thought of unsolved and missing people and how to connect them. So yes I’m very much interested in being apart of something bigger, whether it’s birth parents to adopted children to murders or stolen identity. So I’m very excited to find you!!
What's fortunate about this story is that the real Paul Fronzack and this fine gentleman are alive. I am happy they were adopted. Scott should take on his real name and hold on to Paul as his middle name.
Ive read that the levels of voluntary participation in DNA testing now make it possible to identify just about anyone of caucasian ancestry. The real concern is potential mis-use of DNA information by various parties.
Gedmatch no longer does genetic searches for law enforcement.
@@paulamelnyk986 Do you know if Gedmatch would work with my possible grandmother ancestryDNA results...to a DNA test at a center that my daughter secretly did with a young man that she'd heard that could possibly belong to my deceased Son...
@@wandastevens3183 You can download a DNA file from Ancestry DNA and then import it into gedmatch.
@@paulamelnyk986 That's not correct. You now have to choose to "opt in" to allow your results to be available to law enforcement agencies. Previously you had to "opt out".
@@SamStone1964 That comment is over a year old. Of course it is outdated
This a great Idea, as long as the DNA data is not tampered or hacked or changed in any way. The data must be true and reliable. Also, as a lab technician I would love to retrain to do this sort of work.
I've been searching for someone's grandfather for many months. I've found several ancestors but haven't been able to link anyone to his grandfather. CAN ANYONE HELP?
Initially I didn't want my dna out there incase i could be blamed for a crime i had nothing to do with , but then i did and it was fascinating to see all my cousins that had already did theirs. And surprisingly i have no half siblings out there.
Even if your dna wasn't in the system, you can still be found thru your family members.
Did I miss something? This “Paul” was left in a stroller at a department store for hours. His “real” parents didn’t step forward correct? He was “given” to people who had their baby stolen from the hospital, and were “pressured” into identifying him as theirs. He grows up as theirs except he isn’t. He finds out who he is except he had a twin who is “missing.” Okay, now for MY questions: If the real parents are alive, what do they say happened? Put the real parents under a HOT light and make them tell what happened and WHERE Jill is! Good grief, get it DONE before they claim dementia etc.
Kuulei265 His biological parents (the Rosenthals) are both deceased. He has reconnected with the Rosenthal family and they were told, when asked about the twins whereabouts, that the “other side of the family” was caring for them. He has also been told he and his sister were kept in cages in a dark room; not a good childhood environment at all.
You can read the excellent and well written book or watch other, shorter interviews to Paul.
@@crt1975 wow, i never knew jack's real last name and I've been following this story for years. I also didn't read the book so maybe it was mentioned in the book?
@@crt1975 was that information in the book? If it's accurate, I have a feeling that Jill most likely perished as a toddler. Her remains could be anywhere. How sad, and I am curious to know what the rest of the family has to say about these twins being kept in cages. Was this a known thing? And if so, why wasn't it reported? That is some serious child abuse. Sounds like " Jack," dodged a bullet with regards to his bio parents.. I hope they're rotting some place very HOT.
@@let_your_weird_light_shine_2.0 if you watch the entire video, at about 30 minutes in, you’ll hear Jack/Paul speak about discovering his birth family, and how his love of acting, performing and singing comes from his genetics. He met his Rosenthal cousins, one of whom was a doo wop singer from the 1950’s & 1960’s. He believes his twin sister Jill was killed or accidentally killed & he’s excavating the backyard where his biological family once lived. Wow! Genetics are fascinating to me!
So if he found his family, are his biological parents still living? Why didn’t they turn him in as missing? Was he deliberately dumped in front of the store by his parents? How did his sister go missing? Did she go missing at the same time? So many unanswered questions.
Both of his biological parents were dead by that point and his older siblings have, unfortunately, completely disowned him.
My grandfather born in England emigrated to Guatemala at 18 in 1900. He left in England 2 brothers. He never saw his brothers again. Never knew what became of them. Where could I search? I took the DNA OF Ancestry.
You need to be in more platforms. You took the first step, now take 2 more dna tests on other known dna testing companies. I'd suggest you test your father, not you. The results will be clearer.
This is FASCINATING ! I suppose, most people can't afford it... What a shame ! ❤
It's getting alot cheaper I think I paid about $80 bucks .
You mean they can't afford a genetic generalist or a genetic test? Genetic tests are getting really cheap. The problem is affording a genetic genealogist. You can become one yourself but it takes a lot of reading and learning.
Taking inspiration from what Cece and others have done, I have been able to trace bio parents or grandparents (and beyond) for several dozen people. It is easier if they happen to be related to me, but it can also be done with others. Numbers and scientific concepts are a bit hard for me - but locations and dates and surnames can often be organized into a pattern. Took me one week to identify both bio parents for "Adopted Bob", and about 24 hours to figure out who his biological second cousin's grandfather was. True, I yet to tackle any cases involving crime. Fair warning! No one escapes responsibility for their wrong-doing by virtue of being related to me - my DNA is out there for all the world to see.
i guess I am kinda off topic but do anyone know of a good site to stream newly released movies online ?
Don't let it go
Hi Ms. Cece Moore. Do you want to film, record, analyze my upcoming case? After 61 years of not knowing my father, I just sent in my DNA sample. It is due in 6 to 8 weeks.
My mother was “given away” to an old woman who needed a slave never knew her family. Have given my DNA but didn’t find out anything. Will try again
My brother is really my half brother . We did not know this until after years before our mother passed. I was doing geneology and came across of an adoption paper for my brother. At first I cried but knew he was my brother. I have the info on to my brother. Heconfrintedour mother who insisted that my father was h
My grandfather never knew who his real father was. I am hoping to somehow figure it out!
CeCe has a public Facebook group called the DNA Detectives. Asking for guidance there may assist you in your search.
@@Ishinews thank you!
@@Briget6 I deduced the identity of my grandmother's biological father through DNA and research. Keep trying, the journey is amazing and the genealogy community is a very helpful group of people!
DNA testing will solve it.
I am fascinated by genealogy but my only wuestion for now is, why is it so expensive to do the testing? I understand it costs money but surely with all the advantages of having peoples dna the cost sjouls be closer to cost so that more people are encouraged to it. Also, advertising it as a gift package would also help.
I paid $140 for my ancestry test, and tbey do advertise it as a gift option. It has come a long way with regards to pricing. Used to be in the thousands for a dna test. And around the holidays, they often lower the price as a holiday special. I saved up for my test.
It's less than $100!! And they have regular specials prior to holiday occasions.
@@SamStone1964 a hundred dollars to most people cannot afford today. I'm thinking of crime solving etc as well
So what about the kidnapper? Any chances of prosecution?
I don't know that the kidnapper was found - and what's the statute of limitations on kidnapping?
@@LQOTW that's because she wasn't.
I wish I had someone like CeCe to work with me. The older I get and the more I look at my family tree the more I think something is wrong. The big question is the person who was married to my mother, got divorced, hooked up with her five years later and I was the result. Is that true or is there more to that story. My Ancestry tree has over a thousand people in it. However, after I took an Ancestry DNA test the whole tree came into question because the test came up with possible matches with last names that I've never heard off.
Could you get a person closely related to your suspected father to do an Ancestry DNA test to see if you match.Closest relative I have in Ancestry DNA is my Dad's first cousin but I don't know recognize else on my list but I recognize some names from their family trees.
Use the colour coded grouping system for your matches provided by Ancestry. You'll be able to see at a glance who is who.
So how did the real Paul get to Michigan ?
How do I learn more? I get so lost in the terms and word salad of genetic genealogy.
There are several genealogy podcasts and Facebook groups and books.
mmmpoetry yes I’ve been trying to locate some that are written in plain English ... I’ve purchased a few books in my Kindle and they were way over my head
@@joel6221 You may find Diahan Southard's classes to be helpful. You can learn more about her here: www.yourdnaguide.com/.
Why no mention of his birth parents and why he was abandoned in Newark so many years ago? Tell the whole story!
OR, how about YOU go look for the full story. It's not someone else's job to make sure that your curiousity is satisfied. All kinds of resources available for you to find out more.
@@TheVeek192 Lol. Feel better now?
Paul has written 2 books. Check your local or state library. I’ve read both. The first gives you full details
You don't get to dictate how someone else tells their story. If you want more than a 10 minute explanation, read the book. His parents are dead and his older siblings have disowned hom. It's a very painful part of the story, I'm sure, and, especially considering the brief time, doesn't really provide any pertinent details to the story.
@@saraschneider6781 There's a book. Thanks!
How much does genetic genealogy cost?
There were at least two serial killers here in Halifax Nova Scotia in the 1990’s. The cops think at least a dozen cases can be attributed to one serial killer.
How much does this cost?
Under $200… then Ancestry.com membership…Do you live there… can you write to a newspaper reporter to get some public awareness.. etc
Actually the dna testing in murder cases unfortunately costs 5k. That's why some police departments can't run the tests.
Some DNA testing companies will not work with police to solve crimes. They may test to identify bodied but not the ctiminal.
So we’re is Jill?
Wow, I didn't realize you found the real Paul. Did he get to meet his biological mother?
He was very ill (dying) when they found him and didn't want his mom to see him sickly, but they spoke on the phone several times before he passed away though. It worked out in the end for his parents. They raised a son they loved and found their other son, knowing he had a good childhood.
I hope they find Jill
Bring back this TV show in 2022.
Like 2 know who was the Zodiac.
I want to do genetic genealogy for a living.
Hopefully the children who were taken away and put in the detention centers can be helped to be reunited with their family.
I know the Rosenthals are dead, but the fake parents of the real Paul (the one or ones who stole him from the hospital) are they or is she still alive? Has there been an update since 2020?
Wait what? Fake parents? His parents didn't steal him.
I found out my parents aren’t my parents it’s been horrible for me any ways
It’s sad when parents keep adoption a secret… so selfish of a parent to do that. are you making an attempt to find your birth parent?
Are you ok I'm a search angel do you need some help
No detail about how the kidnapped Paul did in life without revealing who he is if he wants to remain anonymous
The kidnapped Paul was found, ill, and didn't want his real parents to see him in that condition. He talked to them by phone often, until his passing.
Such a complex story. Do they know who stole Paul, who raised him?
If you watch the video know that his adaptive family did not kidnap him and we don't know who did.
Wow,
I took my dna test through Ancestry. Is their any advantage to uploading my dna data to other genealogy sites?
wrong there
Absolutely! With Ancestry, you can only compare your DNA to other Ancestry DNA test takers. When you upload your DNA to a service like GED Match, you can compare your results to people who have tested with 23 & Me and other services. The more results you can compare with, the greater your chances of solving brick walls and other family mysteries.
@@OnlyArethusa thanks
Check the different fb pages for DNA genealogy, people will help you understand what your numbers are and the numbers of others who could be your relatives
Not just Gedmatch, but FamilyTreeDNA, MyHeritage, LivingDNA and now Geneanet (upload your gedcom first). Fish in all the ponds!
How can I find my family in India?
Get on CeCe's facebook groups, DNA Detectives, and DD Social. Get your DNA tested with Ancestry, and then put it on Gedmatch. That's the start.
Those bourgeois Westerners adopting aliens on pious liberalistic notions.
Start with the agency that your parents used. They may be able to back tract towards your birth records. Have you watched “Lion” on Amazon Prime? It is a true, quite moving story of a boy searching for his mother in India…please go looking if you want to , it’s ok to do that, cause you never know your family in India may be looking for you.
You have to find her.
I still wonder why I think I should question if I belong? But, if I ask anybody or say anything, then I am shut down, and looked at like I'm crazy. I'm not. I might be wrong to wonder, but there are reasons why I have questioned am I or am I not. Why was I able to access my birth certificate in Frankfurt, Germany when I first did, and then only a short period after I asked my Mother as an adult, I was locked away from viewing a family video that had been available on FB, then I went back into the system to look at my birth certificate again so that I could maybe look at some of the other information that might have been available/matching to my certificate, and my birth certificate on-line said I was dead. I printed both. The one that showed my info to be the exact same as my paper certificate ( except for having my grandmother's name on it and a reference name of Stevens ), and the time I went back in to look at my birth record and it said I was dead. So, again, I wonder why did that happen? And before my Mother died, after each visit to my Mom's, I would say "I love you" before I would leave for my house and she would say, "No, you don't". I assume that maybe I hurt her feelings pretty bad and for that I do feel pretty bad about. But then, when I was adopting a little girl, why did my Mother have a fit and assume the baby girl was fathered by my husband and another woman. It was hard to convince her that she had not been and that I was sure of it. Why would Mother compare me to my half-sister, and then later to my niece, and then a sister-n-law? I think that she might have just been upset because I still loved my Dad after they split and she believed I shouldn't. My birth certificate says I was born in Germany, but I don't have any blood relatives coming up except for people on my Dad's side of the family. Mom has passed away and so has my Dad. My Mother's only brother passed away before she did and he was actually her half brother and only sibling. I think there were secrets and I'm not sure if I was one or not. I'm 63 now and all of my Dad's siblings passed before he did, so there isn't anybody I could ask; at least not anybody that would ever really say. I guess I could do another DNA test and see if it changes anything. At least my thoughts are out to someone that wouldn't think I'm crazy for wondering. Maybe I really don't have a reason to wonder, but I've always had a feeling that something is lost or different about me. Maybe its just me because I have so many brothers and the difference is that I was my Dad's only daughter and Mom just was afraid or felt hurt that I might love him more than her, which is crazy. I did what any normal little girl would do and that is miss your Daddy because he one day wasn't there anymore. I didn't understand when they split. I only knew that we were a good family and then something bad happened, I heard them arguing one night and then my Dad was gone after that. A little girl doesn't understand at the age of 5. Back then, children stayed with the Moms.
Sounds like they may have been arguing about him running around back then ,also why she was angry so much you might favor him so much...also she sounds bitter and taking it out on you because you might look so much like him...
I didn’t hear it said in this video, but I saw somewhere from Cece’s info, that there are 3 separate dna databanks (apart from any law departments. Ancestry, 123&me & one other. I know that the Mormon site has all the data & documents available free on their website Family Tree. Sign in as guest. I don’t know if they have dna test kits. Ancestry also has people to help you read other languages.
Good luck. Oh, and there’s a section on adoptions.
Parent's were pressured by FBI "evidence" (the ears). Mother agrees it was her baby. She's just lucky they weren't accusing her of a crime and had some of their "evidence" to prove it.
I would like to know what happened to the person who kidnapped the real Paul
There is a theory that it was Linda Taylor, but that hasn't been confirmed.
The real Paul is alive and living in Michigan but has health issues
@@mla701 he's deceased and has been since April.
@@higglety230 no there isn't. The theory is that it was the woman who raised the real Paul or her mother.
@@queenaqueena5803 That's news to me. The Linda Taylor theory is older than that, but perhaps it's been disproven now that he's been located.
CeCe I just found out about 2 years ago I took a dna test through ancestry and found out what I thought were my full nieces are my 1/2 nieces there are 7 children in my family which 2 of them had different fathers I thought turns out there are more I don’t know who I am anymore if my dad isn’t my biological father he is still my dad thank god he is no longer alive he would be heart broken my mother is also not alive so I’m lost please can you help me 🙏 thank you
Hi Luann - CeCe has a Facebook group called DNA Detectives: facebook.com/groups/DNADetectives/. That would be a great place to start.
This was too lengthy.
The real Paul -- who was the kidnapper? There is a logical person of interest...
So did the real Paul have ears similar to his ?
You are an 👼
Why isn't this technology being g used to solve Jon Benet Ramsey's murder and the murdered intern and other high profile cases
The same reason that CeCe says 90% of cases with DNA from people with northern rthern European DNA can be solved, but cases aren't being solved left and right.
That's what I say
Did the real Paul's "mother" kidnap him from the hospital?
WTF? No
I really find it demeaning when someone that furthers their own education, then refers to those that have not pursued or graduated as JUST a ____________. Like they are nothing more than something a person and has to clean off the bottom of their shoe. People seem to get ruder as they get more educated. I bet you don't go into a coffee shop and say, you're just a barista, when you want a coffee or your just a waitress when you want to order your meal in a restaurant, well at least until you get what you want. Would you want someone to say you just match DNA profiles, do you see how it demeans what you do?
Begs the question…….. Who kidnapped the real Paul???
No one knows
It was very obvious he was not their child. They looked absolutely nothing alike to their child.
How can a known family is Cherokee roots and not show up in my DNA
Maybe try a different company
Is Lenny a first cousin? On whose side of your biological parents?
Didn't the real Paul passaway
lb.