Yeap. I rode self built Poison Trekking bike made od steel, then a trail bike Orbea Laufey from 2021 and now a self built Enduro bike Ragley Bigwig. The last one does everything inkl Bikepark and more than I am capable of in terms of jumping. I am more the grounded type of rider 😅 blue trails are still fun and I can tackle the rough stuff too. Well no one like a rock garden or a carpet full of roots anyway 😱😜
Absolutely loved this comment 👍 Another video elsewhere said Full Sus: Fast, feel nothing vs Hard T: Slower, feel everything I turned 50 this year. Bewteen two eclipses in April. Spring, baby :) Survived heart attacks, evil exes (toi many to mention), demons and monsters in politics and life. For me, a H/T makes you part of the bike - but you have to become part machine. It has rebuilt my broken body. Healed my joints; the atrophy; the fibromyalgia. I'm in the UK, but there are 10m sufferers in the US... with 10x the s*icide rate. To survive you have to become part machine. Part bike. Its cheap and the mission is then low cost serviceable nice sexy parts. In January, I was immobile in bed. Urinating in bottles. Unable to walk. Disabled. Profoundly. Barely able to breathe. I got my pain meds sorted and started cycling at dawn for one to now, upto six hours. You have to rebuild muscles, tendons, neurology, pain thresholds have to adjust. A full sus is a incredible for huge drops but for health, strength and conditioning - a hardtail all the way. M
This is the best video for someone wanting to get into the sport! If someone is thinking of getting something expensive to start but can't afford it i am showing them this video. As somebody who started on all modern bikes and rode them for about 5 years i whole heartedly agree! I just recently got into mid 90's bikes and i have a couple full rigid ones that i take out on trails to pay homage to the sport and brush up on line choice. The old chromoly mountain bikes of the mid 90's are magical and such a hoot to ride and i wish I started on them. I found myself giggling and having the time of my life on a green trail. more people need to throw a leg around one these days! Also remember that the parts are ridiculously cheap and simple to fix them, all the way down to the tires. I have about 150 bucks into a bike that i take on the same trails as my bikes worth 1000's (and they both break just as much)
@@DB-sd3cw Actually still ride a regular hardtail bike the ebike is for recovery rides and exploration. Sadly everyone reaches that point when you’re healthy and then suddenly your’e not.
I got a Nukeproof scout(was heavily influenced by Blake) and it’s outstanding. I’m not an incredible rider. I’m a dad and the idea of getting an injury that leaves me in bed for a while would be pretty bad. Modern hardtail can absolutely rip, but they can also be exciting on trails that tend to be a little easier and a little safer. There is absolutely terrain that they aren’t great for but that’s kinda the top 5-10% or trails. For MOST people, hardtails are amazing and far more capable than most riders
Yep. Spot on. Been back on a hardtail for nearly a year now. Miss the plush cushiness sometimes (I'm old and lazy) but don't miss the rear linkages getting all janky after a while. And I can do pretty much anything on the HT I could before, just take it a little slower. Big deal - I'm not racing.
Sure, we get the point…20 times more expensive though? At least compare bikes that are actually that far apart. An Orbea alma h50 is ~1.5k, that Tyee is about ~6.5k…
Modern hardcore hardtail are so much fun. I sold my 160mm enduo full Sus and got a steeln150mm hardcore hardtail. I've never had so much fun on a bike. The full Susser makes everything flat. The hardtail revitalises old trails.
I agree with you Martyn! Been mountain biking ~35 yrs and I still grab my (modern) hardtail 99% of the time. With modern geo, better suspension forks, longer droppers, better brakes, and larger/wider wheel & tire sizes, they are incredibly capable. Obviously it can depend on the trails available and style of riding someone aspires to, but I'd rather under-bike than over-bike.
The most fun I have EVER had on a bike was 15 years ago riding the Moab Slickrock loop on a 20 year old Trek 400. The downhills were terrifying! There was a couple women in fancy tights on full suspension bikes and one commented to the other, "I don't see how you can enjoy the ride on those old bikes" lol
Getting back into mountain biking after a 20 year hiatus. Tech has completely evolved from my 97 hardtail Mongoose. Bought my 1st FS 2 months ago. I'm 6' on a good day and so was recommended a size Large. Having problems adjusting to a FS 29er. Love my new bike but bought a hardtail 27.5'er in size Medium.
Thanks to Blake and his hard tail vids I picked up a Ragley Big Al at 52 years old and now I rarely ride my full suspension now . Love getting out on the hard tail again , you are so right , the tech is so good and the fun factor is awesome!!!! The only downside is most of my friends have gone the opposite direction and jumped on the e-bike trend and now I mostly just ride with my dog . Love the hard tail , hands down the most fun you can have on a trail . Cheers boys , love this !!!!!!
I recently moved somewhere very flat , after 28 years of full suss I have bought a hard tail and it’s a totally different experience. The pick up when putting your foot down is amazing and I can do miles and miles without needing to sit down . Im still getting use to it , just waiting for the weather to improve . Really happy with my purchase .
My first MTB was an Orange Clockwork back in 1993. It was fully rigid when I got it but I later bought and added some Pace suspension forks when they came out. It was a fantastic bike and I rode it every day to commute to work and ride up in the Pennines around where I lived. I now have a Whyte 905 which I enjoy too.
Well, I recently upgraded to a full suspension MTB which cost me $2400AUD, from my 15yo hardtail which cost me $1200. The full sus definitely is easier and more fun to negotiate the challenging tracks I ride ( I'm 57 btw). The only downside I have noticed with the full sus is that I can't ride it as fast on the flat due to the gearing. Anyway, I still have the hardtail if I want to ride it. And, I've never seen a graph where the date goes backward 8:30 lol, it hurts my OCD.
Absolutely nailed it. I have a Niner hardtail from 2007, a carbon FS from 2015, a 2022 650b gravel bike and I just built up a 1995 Gary Fisher Marlin 26" rigid. They're all great but if I could only keep one it would be one of the hardtails.
I think everyone should have a modern hardtail. I do have to say, Canyon has a Spectral 125 CF8 for $4100 and it's carbon with all XT with DT Swiss wheels, so I would half your math on the costs. But that being said, we are still $3k cheaper to get a banger hardtail! Arms are where we get the most fatigue and thus a suspension fork is extremely helpful. But our legs are monsters and we have a good 200mm of travel with them. There really isn't much I can't ride with my hardtail. Things have to get pretty extreme and pretty fast for me to not be able to ride something on my hardtail and honestly those things are so extreme, most riders wouldn't ride them on any bike. Even from a comfort perspective, a modern hardtail is pretty comfortable. I prefer 4130 Chromoly steel or titanium for a hardtail over aluminum simple because they are more comfortable. But if you run a 2.6 tire you can run a lower pressure and have a comfortable ride over the rough stuff. Full suspension is overrated. I do have 2 full suspension bikes, a Canyon Spectral 125 and a Salsa Rustler (130mm) and I feel like I would never want more rear travel than those two and I have ridden a lot of pretty gnarly stuff with them. But again, nothing I wouldn't do on a modern hartail.
Exactly. It’s one thing to start on a janky hard tail and fully use up its potential. But it’s downright nonsense to pretend like going back to that after experiencing what a modern Dh or enduro bike can do is ‘fun’ or the best bike experience ever. Lol
@cavanero17 watch me smoke you on my lightweight janky hardcore hardtail on the climbs , downs and tech your full sus or downhill is overbiked heavy and slow
@@cavanero_ It's not necessarily about going back to hardtail, but rather the question if that enduro/downhill bike is 10 TIMES better than a decent hardtail? Then there is the location where the rider resides at. Where I'm at only 5-10% of terrain would ever call for a dh/enduro bike, and you'd still need to slog for hours to get to that terrain. If I ever get a full suspension bike, it will be an XC bike, simply because that would fill 98% of riding I do. To each their own, but I firmly believe that a decent modern hardtail is a lot more capable than 90% of riders out there.
I started on HT’s as a kid, progressed onto quality FS’s & recently picked up a Ragley Big Al at a stupidly cheap sale price just to have for when I feel like it on my local more tame trails. To be honest I feel like it all the time… I get so stoked on riding the HT, it’s now my favourite bike! Love the simplicity & joy, feel like a kid again when I’m riding it 🤘
I was introduced to mountain biking in college in '87, and the bikes were primitive, but we didn't know that, so we rode them hard and couldn't believe the places they took us. The Earth's terrain that we all ride on hasn't changed much since 1987, but the bikes we use have certainly made the ride smoother. And I still can't believe the places they take us.
For me the year mountain biking got real as 1998/9. the bike was a Kona Nu-Nu, it was the first bike I could stand over without crushing my nuts, that i could (just) put on a sub 100mm stem, and my first air fork, Marzocchi Z5. (actually the z5 came on my second one, the first one I had came with RST381s )
Got a new hardtail with modern geometry and a much longer fork than my bikes before. I converted it to SS and run Mezcals. Right now I'm having a blast! Its so much fun and sooo easy to maintain.
I've still got my marin Indian fire trail from 1996 with a stunning mozo pro shock and it's a fantastic bike to ride brand new back then it was £1,009 . Yeah you most definitely are right about the hardtail
I loved this episode. For most people (including myself) a hardtail is all you need. I started on a hardtail and only switched to full sus because the spectral 125 had a huge discount. I’m not having more fun than I did with hardtail but the full sus and better gear are nice creature comforts.
Agree! Went for a ride on my new full-sus bike today, but could have easily done it on my 90s Fat Chance (and been quicker on the road sections!). That said, some trails are so much easier on the bouncy one - different sort of fun.
I love hardtails! The real question and an exercise for us all is to consider the difference between 'need' and 'want'. Once we realise that we 'want' something fancy it is quite liberating. We all need to ride bikes and it's ok to want a new one!
This is truly wisdom. At the end of the day we are at the point where marketing is running the show with mountain biking… 90% of us don’t need the majority of the new tech and would be well suited on a budget hardtail with good geometry. If you have the money (or the trails) that really require the higher end stuff go for it but if you’re wondering if it’s worth picking up a 3 years used hardtail for like 700 bucks the answer is ABSOLUTELY HECK YA BRO RIP IT!
Martyn, you nailed it but let's also understand, so many people can't afford to buy the expensive bike for their kids and the hard tails provide the best rugged option with lower maintenance costs for a kid to absolutely shred on , still go hit jumps, trails on an absolutely minimal budget and still have a real cool bike to cruise the neighborhood on, go to the corner store for a drink and ice cream with his mates . I love my one. Sad to hear about Andrew Chu's passing. Never a good thing losing riders in such a way.
I do kinda agree I have a trek marlin 7 hardtail that I enjoy has new tires,bars and pedals other than that it's stock and I have plenty of fun with it. I would like a better set of forks up front but can't spent 500$ forks
Have a Marlin 5. Got a 2011 Fox 32 100 mm with QR for $75 on Offerup. Got a Rockshox Recon 130mm on Facebook Market for $55 (Originally being sold for $75) for my GT. Had to buy a new wheelset though. $350 for a complete wheelset and QR conversion kit for the rear wheel, Bontrager Line Comp 30 with 104 point of engagement. Both work great. People were just trying to unload so they don't have clutter. I also have a Rockshox Judy 120mm that I got for $120 for the same GT. The Rockshox forks were original parts replaced by better forks. There's a market to find it, you just have to be patient.
Save up and get a higher end hardtail. I went from a marlin 7 to a roscoe 7 and now a roscoe 9 and it is 10000% worth the upgrade. The marlin is downright dangerous with how flimsy it is.
So glad you kept Hounds and Beagles. Eagles and Seagulls, that's an interesting add on. Could be a little risky with the eagles though, they have murder feets and battle axes for beaks, you don't want to get too close unless they're tamed. You forgot Martyn's Bowhead in the bike vault, I bet he has an epic photo of that in the collection somewhere.
I really think this is an important point to make to new riders, £500 does seem to be the borderline between "mtb style" hybrids/silly Amazon bike and something that is legitimately a great mountain bike. I still think the difference between my mtb in the mid 90s and what I ride now is negligible. - I've always been at the budget end of the market so maybe I don't know what I'm comparing, or perhaps ignorance is bliss though.
I had a full squish and left riding for awhile, the trails were just too busy. Got a used hardtail (specialized fuse) this time around and I haven't felt held back. I was worried because of the marketing, but I did the wasatch crest over the weekend with 4,000' of descent. I could go for lowering my fork pressure and did get rattled by the rocks, but I had a blast and never felt restricted besides slowing down because of my bad line choices and subpar riding skills.
Only ever ridden hardtails since I first started mounting biking in 91. Got three ht in my stable now. Rigid fattie, steel ss and ti enduro. It’s all I’ll ever need
Started on rigid in 1990. Rode hardtails for almost 20 years. Now on full sus. The truth is I can go way faster on it than than the hardtails. At some point the ht gets overwhelmed. And my 61 yo body takes way less of a beating.😅
Great video but why are the graphs backwards? 🤔 I bought a Vitus Sentier 275 for £600. Loved it. Upon a recommendation I decided to upgrade the wheels (waste of £300). Just "upgraded" the frame - Nukeproof Scout - we'll have to see. Dabbled with other people's FS but can't be bothered with the faff.
As a Hardtail and full rigid rider. Ive been arguing this point for many years to my full sus budys. Theres knowere they go that i cant go on my hardtail. On that note. Im a trail rider at most. Not a Redbull Rampage rider. I also feel that a first bike hardtail will teach you how to use your legs as suspension. And overall teach you better handling skills. I see to many first time mtb riders on full sus that seem to ride full dead weight. And just plow things. Relying on the suspension vs relying on there own body language.
Yes!!! I have a hard tail fat bike. I takes ANY wheel size and ANY tyre size. I can have a fast XC rear tyre for speed and a 27.5 x 4.5 fat monster ul front. Or 29+ or MTB mullet. I love this bike.
At the height (depth)? of the bicycle shortage I found a pair of Specialized Chisels at different bike shops. Way overpriced for what they were, but they had the distinguishing feature of being aluminum hardtails that had the best mix of compliance with the latest standards (correct axles, UDH, provisions for droppers, the return to threaded BBs). The wife's L is still in its mostly stock configuration other than RD/shifter (we both strongly prefer electronic shifting due to hand size/strength) whereas on my M the only stock parts are the frame, the stem and the brakes. They were a wonderful blank canvas for two people starting out XC riding, with differing levels of commitment.
I have a steel hard tail and an enduro bike. The enduro bike has been inoperable for about a year and I can’t say I miss it all that much. The hard tail rips.
I found a current model shop build SC Hightower 3 with full XT, Lyrik, & i-9 Hyddra for $5k. Yes, it’s 10 x the bike of a $500 hardtail dept store bike.
my Banshee Enigma is surely an absolute blast to ride! i would recommend anyone who has a hardtail and wants to "upgrade" to a full sus, KEEP the hardtail, too! i have a HT, a 115, a 140, a 165, and a 180. they all have a place. the Banshee always has a place in the rotation, for sure.
Great Point! Totally 100% agree. But, the first point and the most important point of the 3 is the hardest thing to teach. No school in the world can teach it. and it is called "COMMON SENSE". In short, it might appear pointless to people in regards to this conversation if they don't agree to point number 1.
Martin , I got a ‘Dawes wildcat’ in 88, I’m with you bro,…. Yes I’m safer with my dropper, plush suss, discs, nowadays but yeah - the whole pleasure is not being on the road, breathing fresh air not diesel soot, and smelling the roses+ scaring myself once and while cos I’m not skilled enough, but boy it’s makes me smile every time. Hard tail it is !
I think Martin is certainly right that in many ways the hardtail is the one and only do it all bike and will continue to be forever. We let ourselves be carried by the industry with longer travel, rear shocks, etc. but the modern hardtail is almost at the pinnacle of what a MTB represents and does. I would still argue that the modern geometry hasn’t caught on with the largest manufacturers and that’s when hardtails will still improve just a little bit. The graph was missing some of the stuff that tech brings with it. Safety, handling, stability at speed, downhill performance, etc. and all of that is mostly geometry and that’s where I think we can still improve a little bit. When the MTB’s at Walmart start to be built up with modern geos, we will be at the pinnacle of mountain biking. The Kona Honzo ESD is a great example of a do it all bike. Finally the perfect bike for the masses will be here. (Hopefully before we destroy the world in the process 😢)
The question for me is: Are hardtails suitable for riders in the 120-160kg range? After all, I'm not trying break rims, blow out tubes and tires, or have to true up my spokes every trail weekend.
Most definitely. Luv my Cannondale ht. Iv had it since 2017. Iv upgraded a few parts n that but it's still goin strong. N in all the time iv own it iv had 1 puncture n I'm still using the original tubes. Luv all the content too guys n girls thanks
i would go even that far to call you only need one bike - a hardtail MTB and you are good. I have hardtail with suspension seatpost and basically have from comfort side a full sus and slightly narrower tires something of a gravel. that is my opinion though. I dont have the space for 2 or 3 bikes so thats how i chose
Once in a while a full suspension is a more comfortable ride especially on the knees, but for me i find myself riding the hardtail and gravel bike more and more, hardly use the full suspension.
Yep, I'm a hardtail rider, and will always ride hardtails. I ride very steep trails with people that ride FS bikes and keep up with them with no problem. Yes, the best riders on competitions, with FS will always have the upper edge, but that doesn't translate to weekend warriors. So, I'll never budge and fall into the FS trap
I thought the same thing until I demo rode a pivot switchblade and shadowcat. 100% saving up for a good full sus now but will probably keep the hardtail
@@johndef5075 I don't think I really want to go any faster. I'm up to 30 surgeries now 😬 I'm 62 y.o. and the very fact that I can keep up or lead FS bikes is hardcore enough for me, thanks! 😁
You proved it and I still ride a hardtail. Given really long rides the full susser saves your ass but in terms of fun its pretty much the same for me if not more on the hardtail as its so squirelly
I think this is also dependent on where you live and what you like to ride. Its quite rooty and chunky where I live, I had a hardtail and can say I have way more fun on my full sus. I dont like to pick lines I like to plow full speed ahead.😂
I have a 2022 Giant Talon, upgraded parts spent over a thousand dollars and yes I think for a beginner or light to medium xc trail riding and over the road I will never upgrade this for a fullsus.
For those in the UK who want to be a weekend warrior in the woods and for first time buyers, most will look at full suspension as their first bike because it is a more capable bike overall. However! Any experienced biker will likely agree that for weekend warrior style uk single track a hardtail is all you need. If not that then a ebike hardtail would cover 90% of peoples needs. Although what you find is most are middle aged e bikers riding in the peaks with 160mm front and rear. To me they typically look over biked. Thats not to say buy what you want and do whatever makes you happy!
This is a Chinese copy of the Panaracer Swoop AT..but they awesomely offer 29er sizes and more sozes for 27.5 and 26 Theres also a DH version which has taller lugs. Hard to find a place to ship ti the USA...but ill eventually find it to compare.. Their Rock Wolf tire looks good too
Here in Canada you can buy the same milk from the same farm packed into “no name”, “brand name”, and “organic” boxes, and having different price tags. It is marketing. It is to cover different market segments. Who knows, maybe buyers of 10k bikes pay for R&D so that buyers of 0.5k bikes can get better bikes?
😂alots changed since the muddy fox courier or sorcerer pro, ragley big al is my hardtail, im not the best of technical terrain rider, but i can ride it all day👌😎
Love ‘Hounds and Beagles’. I noticed, no beagles. Understandable, because if they’re anything like my beagle, Beanie, they’d be gone, off doing their own trails, the nanosecond of being released from the lead. She’ll rejoin me back at the car a couple of hours later, to be washed down with the bike.
I've been racing a Saracen Kili recently, very 90s.. I also run a bike workshop so get to ride all sorts. 500 quid bikes are pretty good by comparison with the 90s Kili but not as quick off the mark, probably due to wheel weight and geometry. Getting over roots and rocks are going to be easier on the modern stuff so you'd not get so battered racing on a modern bike. 90 minutes racing the Kili is hard work, I haven't tried a modern bike in a race, had 20 years out of the cult😂 ... if I decide to race seriously next year I'll likely invest, in the meantime a couple of races at Cannock coming up for the Saracen. Cheers.
Do you agree that hardtails are the most fun? 🤔 What do you think is the most fun type of bike and style of biking? 👇
KONA HONZO ALL THE WAY
got a 2022 Orbea Laufey, I agree
HELL YEAH!!!! less maintenance more fun
Yeap. I rode self built Poison Trekking bike made od steel, then a trail bike Orbea Laufey from 2021 and now a self built Enduro bike Ragley Bigwig.
The last one does everything inkl Bikepark and more than I am capable of in terms of jumping. I am more the grounded type of rider 😅 blue trails are still fun and I can tackle the rough stuff too. Well no one like a rock garden or a carpet full of roots anyway 😱😜
Well, my Orange P7 just arrived, so of course I’m going to agree.
Really, hardtail is the only MTB you need! You had to say this when I just closed a deal for my first full sus…😅
Well, you don't have to let RUclipsrs make your decisions for you, so....rest easy.
Haha same here. The main thing holding me back is the additional maintenance of a fully. Hard tail serves me well enough
What you enjoy riding is what you need. If it's a fatbike or a hybrid bike let it be 😂
Me too, ridden a hard tail for 20 years. Just bought a full sus emtb. 😂
You’ll love your full Cush bike.
I am the suspension. I'm 62 years young and loving my rigid single speed.
Ive tried that. Enjoying my full sus much more at 61. Different strokes....having fun is all that matters in the end.
Good for you
this comment is goals for me. glad to hear youre living the dream brother!
Absolutely loved this comment 👍
Another video elsewhere said
Full Sus: Fast, feel nothing
vs
Hard T: Slower, feel everything
I turned 50 this year. Bewteen two eclipses in April. Spring, baby :)
Survived heart attacks, evil exes (toi many to mention), demons and monsters in politics and life. For me, a H/T makes you part of the bike - but you have to become part machine.
It has rebuilt my broken body. Healed my joints; the atrophy; the fibromyalgia. I'm in the UK, but there are 10m sufferers in the US... with 10x the s*icide rate.
To survive you have to become part machine. Part bike. Its cheap and the mission is then low cost serviceable nice sexy parts.
In January, I was immobile in bed. Urinating in bottles. Unable to walk. Disabled. Profoundly. Barely able to breathe. I got my pain meds sorted and started cycling at dawn for one to now, upto six hours.
You have to rebuild muscles, tendons, neurology, pain thresholds have to adjust. A full sus is a incredible for huge drops but for health, strength and conditioning - a hardtail all the way. M
Wishing I had the cash for a rigid gravel bike.
Went hardtail first… one step at a time 🤓☺️
This is the best video for someone wanting to get into the sport! If someone is thinking of getting something expensive to start but can't afford it i am showing them this video. As somebody who started on all modern bikes and rode them for about 5 years i whole heartedly agree! I just recently got into mid 90's bikes and i have a couple full rigid ones that i take out on trails to pay homage to the sport and brush up on line choice. The old chromoly mountain bikes of the mid 90's are magical and such a hoot to ride and i wish I started on them. I found myself giggling and having the time of my life on a green trail. more people need to throw a leg around one these days! Also remember that the parts are ridiculously cheap and simple to fix them, all the way down to the tires. I have about 150 bucks into a bike that i take on the same trails as my bikes worth 1000's (and they both break just as much)
Riding hardtails since forever until 2021 when I got my first full suspension ebike .I’m 70 and still love riding my hardtails.
Ebike 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮👎👎👎👎
@@DB-sd3cw Let’s see how you feel about eMTB’s when you’re in your 60’s and 70’s.
@manfredstrappen7491 if I reach the point where I literally can't pedal an analog bike anymore, it's time to get another hobby.
@@DB-sd3cw Actually still ride a regular hardtail bike the ebike is for recovery rides and exploration. Sadly everyone reaches that point when you’re healthy and then suddenly your’e not.
I got a Nukeproof scout(was heavily influenced by Blake) and it’s outstanding. I’m not an incredible rider. I’m a dad and the idea of getting an injury that leaves me in bed for a while would be pretty bad. Modern hardtail can absolutely rip, but they can also be exciting on trails that tend to be a little easier and a little safer. There is absolutely terrain that they aren’t great for but that’s kinda the top 5-10% or trails. For MOST people, hardtails are amazing and far more capable than most riders
My rationale for a hardtail as well! Well-said.
Yep. Spot on. Been back on a hardtail for nearly a year now. Miss the plush cushiness sometimes (I'm old and lazy) but don't miss the rear linkages getting all janky after a while. And I can do pretty much anything on the HT I could before, just take it a little slower. Big deal - I'm not racing.
Sure, we get the point…20 times more expensive though? At least compare bikes that are actually that far apart. An Orbea alma h50 is ~1.5k, that Tyee is about ~6.5k…
that Tyee is one of the dopest of the dope, tho.
argument still holds at 10x which is more realistic
Modern hardcore hardtail are so much fun. I sold my 160mm enduo full Sus and got a steeln150mm hardcore hardtail. I've never had so much fun on a bike.
The full Susser makes everything flat. The hardtail revitalises old trails.
I agree with you Martyn! Been mountain biking ~35 yrs and I still grab my (modern) hardtail 99% of the time. With modern geo, better suspension forks, longer droppers, better brakes, and larger/wider wheel & tire sizes, they are incredibly capable. Obviously it can depend on the trails available and style of riding someone aspires to, but I'd rather under-bike than over-bike.
The most fun I have EVER had on a bike was 15 years ago riding the Moab Slickrock loop on a 20 year old Trek 400. The downhills were terrifying! There was a couple women in fancy tights on full suspension bikes and one commented to the other, "I don't see how you can enjoy the ride on those old bikes" lol
Getting back into mountain biking after a 20 year hiatus. Tech has completely evolved from my 97 hardtail Mongoose. Bought my 1st FS 2 months ago. I'm 6' on a good day and so was recommended a size Large. Having problems adjusting to a FS 29er. Love my new bike but bought a hardtail 27.5'er in size Medium.
I'm coming up to 78 and still on hardtail ,tubeless has transformed the ride big tyres and less inflation 👌😎
Well...as I said a couple of years ago, gravel bikes are the effect of roadies discovering mountaing biking is better, but not wanting to say it loud.
That Michael Jackson reference damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.....even the camerman laughed!
Thanks to Blake and his hard tail vids I picked up a Ragley Big Al at 52 years old and now I rarely ride my full suspension now . Love getting out on the hard tail again , you are so right , the tech is so good and the fun factor is awesome!!!! The only downside is most of my friends have gone the opposite direction and jumped on the e-bike trend and now I mostly just ride with my dog . Love the hard tail , hands down the most fun you can have on a trail . Cheers boys , love this !!!!!!
I recently moved somewhere very flat , after 28 years of full suss I have bought a hard tail and it’s a totally different experience. The pick up when putting your foot down is amazing and I can do miles and miles without needing to sit down .
Im still getting use to it , just waiting for the weather to improve . Really happy with my purchase .
I've been mountain biking since around 2005. Been riding a hardtail since around 2005. Hardtail for life!
My first MTB was an Orange Clockwork back in 1993. It was fully rigid when I got it but I later bought and added some Pace suspension forks when they came out. It was a fantastic bike and I rode it every day to commute to work and ride up in the Pennines around where I lived. I now have a Whyte 905 which I enjoy too.
Well, I recently upgraded to a full suspension MTB which cost me $2400AUD, from my 15yo hardtail which cost me $1200. The full sus definitely is easier and more fun to negotiate the challenging tracks I ride ( I'm 57 btw). The only downside I have noticed with the full sus is that I can't ride it as fast on the flat due to the gearing. Anyway, I still have the hardtail if I want to ride it.
And, I've never seen a graph where the date goes backward 8:30 lol, it hurts my OCD.
I know, I was trying to work it out as the dates are so small?
My 56 year old knees and ankles respectfully disagree.
A f/s doesn’t make tech trails that much smoother. I ride both and your legs are your primary suspension.
At 56 myself, hardtails are still my winter choice.
Absolutely nailed it. I have a Niner hardtail from 2007, a carbon FS from 2015, a 2022 650b gravel bike and I just built up a 1995 Gary Fisher Marlin 26" rigid. They're all great but if I could only keep one it would be one of the hardtails.
This clearly demands a budget hardtail shootout, no?
100% agree! I have a budget hard tail and it's phenomenal what you can do on it. My rigid MTB I bought in 1995....still gives me a high
I think everyone should have a modern hardtail. I do have to say, Canyon has a Spectral 125 CF8 for $4100 and it's carbon with all XT with DT Swiss wheels, so I would half your math on the costs. But that being said, we are still $3k cheaper to get a banger hardtail!
Arms are where we get the most fatigue and thus a suspension fork is extremely helpful. But our legs are monsters and we have a good 200mm of travel with them. There really isn't much I can't ride with my hardtail. Things have to get pretty extreme and pretty fast for me to not be able to ride something on my hardtail and honestly those things are so extreme, most riders wouldn't ride them on any bike. Even from a comfort perspective, a modern hardtail is pretty comfortable. I prefer 4130 Chromoly steel or titanium for a hardtail over aluminum simple because they are more comfortable. But if you run a 2.6 tire you can run a lower pressure and have a comfortable ride over the rough stuff.
Full suspension is overrated. I do have 2 full suspension bikes, a Canyon Spectral 125 and a Salsa Rustler (130mm) and I feel like I would never want more rear travel than those two and I have ridden a lot of pretty gnarly stuff with them. But again, nothing I wouldn't do on a modern hartail.
I love my hardtail but no I'm now used to riding much faster downhill and eating up the rock gardens. Couldn't go back 😅
Exactly. It’s one thing to start on a janky hard tail and fully use up its potential. But it’s downright nonsense to pretend like going back to that after experiencing what a modern Dh or enduro bike can do is ‘fun’ or the best bike experience ever. Lol
@cavanero17 watch me smoke you on my lightweight janky hardcore hardtail on the climbs , downs and tech your full sus or downhill is overbiked heavy and slow
@@cavanero_ It's not necessarily about going back to hardtail, but rather the question if that enduro/downhill bike is 10 TIMES better than a decent hardtail?
Then there is the location where the rider resides at. Where I'm at only 5-10% of terrain would ever call for a dh/enduro bike, and you'd still need to slog for hours to get to that terrain.
If I ever get a full suspension bike, it will be an XC bike, simply because that would fill 98% of riding I do.
To each their own, but I firmly believe that a decent modern hardtail is a lot more capable than 90% of riders out there.
I started on HT’s as a kid, progressed onto quality FS’s & recently picked up a Ragley Big Al at a stupidly cheap sale price just to have for when I feel like it on my local more tame trails. To be honest I feel like it all the time… I get so stoked on riding the HT, it’s now my favourite bike! Love the simplicity & joy, feel like a kid again when I’m riding it 🤘
I was introduced to mountain biking in college in '87, and the bikes were primitive, but we didn't know that, so we rode them hard and couldn't believe the places they took us. The Earth's terrain that we all ride on hasn't changed much since 1987, but the bikes we use have certainly made the ride smoother.
And I still can't believe the places they take us.
I sold my full suspension Scott Spark last year and built up a NukeProof Scout frame. I love my hardtail and don’t miss my old bike.
You didn’t have to prove it to me - I was always in the “hardtails are the best” camp!
For me the year mountain biking got real as 1998/9. the bike was a Kona Nu-Nu, it was the first bike I could stand over without crushing my nuts, that i could (just) put on a sub 100mm stem, and my first air fork, Marzocchi Z5. (actually the z5 came on my second one, the first one I had came with RST381s )
Got a new hardtail with modern geometry and a much longer fork than my bikes before. I converted it to SS and run Mezcals. Right now I'm having a blast! Its so much fun and sooo easy to maintain.
I've still got my marin Indian fire trail from 1996 with a stunning mozo pro shock and it's a fantastic bike to ride brand new back then it was £1,009 .
Yeah you most definitely are right about the hardtail
I ride both and own both, ht's and fullsus. They each have their own uses,IMO. Where's Caption Contest at? lol
I loved this episode. For most people (including myself) a hardtail is all you need. I started on a hardtail and only switched to full sus because the spectral 125 had a huge discount. I’m not having more fun than I did with hardtail but the full sus and better gear are nice creature comforts.
@mattyactive said it. You don’t need much bike to have fun.
I bought a Orange P7 and never rode my full suspension again. Bundles of fun🤙🏼
Agree! Went for a ride on my new full-sus bike today, but could have easily done it on my 90s Fat Chance (and been quicker on the road sections!). That said, some trails are so much easier on the bouncy one - different sort of fun.
I own 2 bikes, a '98 trek 800 rigid, and a 2020 polygon hardtail with most all of the modern appointments. Both bikes are great in their own ways!
I love hardtails! The real question and an exercise for us all is to consider the difference between 'need' and 'want'. Once we realise that we 'want' something fancy it is quite liberating. We all need to ride bikes and it's ok to want a new one!
This is truly wisdom. At the end of the day we are at the point where marketing is running the show with mountain biking… 90% of us don’t need the majority of the new tech and would be well suited on a budget hardtail with good geometry. If you have the money (or the trails) that really require the higher end stuff go for it but if you’re wondering if it’s worth picking up a 3 years used hardtail for like 700 bucks the answer is ABSOLUTELY HECK YA BRO RIP IT!
Does anyone know what hardtail orbea is shown on the video?
Martyn, you nailed it but let's also understand, so many people can't afford to buy the expensive bike for their kids and the hard tails provide the best rugged option with lower maintenance costs for a kid to absolutely shred on , still go hit jumps, trails on an absolutely minimal budget and still have a real cool bike to cruise the neighborhood on, go to the corner store for a drink and ice cream with his mates . I love my one.
Sad to hear about Andrew Chu's passing. Never a good thing losing riders in such a way.
I do kinda agree I have a trek marlin 7 hardtail that I enjoy has new tires,bars and pedals other than that it's stock and I have plenty of fun with it. I would like a better set of forks up front but can't spent 500$ forks
Have a Marlin 5. Got a 2011 Fox 32 100 mm with QR for $75 on Offerup.
Got a Rockshox Recon 130mm on Facebook Market for $55 (Originally being sold for $75) for my GT. Had to buy a new wheelset though. $350 for a complete wheelset and QR conversion kit for the rear wheel, Bontrager Line Comp 30 with 104 point of engagement.
Both work great. People were just trying to unload so they don't have clutter. I also have a Rockshox Judy 120mm that I got for $120 for the same GT.
The Rockshox forks were original parts replaced by better forks. There's a market to find it, you just have to be patient.
Save up and get a higher end hardtail. I went from a marlin 7 to a roscoe 7 and now a roscoe 9 and it is 10000% worth the upgrade. The marlin is downright dangerous with how flimsy it is.
So glad you kept Hounds and Beagles. Eagles and Seagulls, that's an interesting add on. Could be a little risky with the eagles though, they have murder feets and battle axes for beaks, you don't want to get too close unless they're tamed. You forgot Martyn's Bowhead in the bike vault, I bet he has an epic photo of that in the collection somewhere.
9:06 best burn I've ever heard by far....9:10 best save in the history of the Internet. Thanks gents, i spit out my drink watching that one.
I really think this is an important point to make to new riders, £500 does seem to be the borderline between "mtb style" hybrids/silly Amazon bike and something that is legitimately a great mountain bike. I still think the difference between my mtb in the mid 90s and what I ride now is negligible. - I've always been at the budget end of the market so maybe I don't know what I'm comparing, or perhaps ignorance is bliss though.
Hi #DirtShedShow, I can hear Steve (EMBN) saying that it's all about miles for smiles. Tech = comfort, confort = more miles, more miles = more smiles!
I had a full squish and left riding for awhile, the trails were just too busy. Got a used hardtail (specialized fuse) this time around and I haven't felt held back.
I was worried because of the marketing, but I did the wasatch crest over the weekend with 4,000' of descent. I could go for lowering my fork pressure and did get rattled by the rocks, but I had a blast and never felt restricted besides slowing down because of my bad line choices and subpar riding skills.
Only ever ridden hardtails since I first started mounting biking in 91. Got three ht in my stable now. Rigid fattie, steel ss and ti enduro. It’s all I’ll ever need
Started on rigid in 1990. Rode hardtails for almost 20 years. Now on full sus.
The truth is I can go way faster on it than than the hardtails. At some point the ht gets overwhelmed. And my 61 yo body takes way less of a beating.😅
I my family we have a trek Procaliber 9.6 what is are dog bikes that has all the dog pulling stuff on it
Great video but why are the graphs backwards? 🤔 I bought a Vitus Sentier 275 for £600. Loved it. Upon a recommendation I decided to upgrade the wheels (waste of £300). Just "upgraded" the frame - Nukeproof Scout - we'll have to see. Dabbled with other people's FS but can't be bothered with the faff.
Love my Hardtail....❤. Every ride is a challenge.
I’ve got a Kona ESD and love it. Anytime I try out a duel suspension bike, I shake my head with disappointment and ultimately prefer the hardtail.
As a Hardtail and full rigid rider. Ive been arguing this point for many years to my full sus budys. Theres knowere they go that i cant go on my hardtail. On that note. Im a trail rider at most. Not a Redbull Rampage rider. I also feel that a first bike hardtail will teach you how to use your legs as suspension. And overall teach you better handling skills. I see to many first time mtb riders on full sus that seem to ride full dead weight. And just plow things. Relying on the suspension vs relying on there own body language.
Yes!!!
I have a hard tail fat bike.
I takes ANY wheel size and ANY tyre size.
I can have a fast XC rear tyre for speed and a 27.5 x 4.5 fat monster ul front.
Or 29+ or MTB mullet.
I love this bike.
At the height (depth)? of the bicycle shortage I found a pair of Specialized Chisels at different bike shops. Way overpriced for what they were, but they had the distinguishing feature of being aluminum hardtails that had the best mix of compliance with the latest standards (correct axles, UDH, provisions for droppers, the return to threaded BBs). The wife's L is still in its mostly stock configuration other than RD/shifter (we both strongly prefer electronic shifting due to hand size/strength) whereas on my M the only stock parts are the frame, the stem and the brakes. They were a wonderful blank canvas for two people starting out XC riding, with differing levels of commitment.
So glad I have two 90s GTs hard tail and LTS . Totally agree with you
I had both those bikes. And the RTS too. They still can be a lot of fun but my newer bikes are so much better in every way.
I have a steel hard tail and an enduro bike. The enduro bike has been inoperable for about a year and I can’t say I miss it all that much. The hard tail rips.
Early mountain biking was gravel riding.
As I just bought a GT Zaskar LT it suits me to completely agree. Very convinced here.
Huge HT fan. I have e both a full sus and a Nukeproof Scout 290 that is built up. I find myself grabbing the HT 80+% of the time! 15:27
I found a current model shop build SC Hightower 3 with full XT, Lyrik, & i-9 Hyddra for $5k. Yes, it’s 10 x the bike of a $500 hardtail dept store bike.
i completely agree with the hardtail discussion with martin
Clicked on the Topeak link but can't see a form to enter? Is it me...?
I was part of group that rode that day with Andrew Chu. A lot of us took it really hard when we found he had passed -myself included.
my Banshee Enigma is surely an absolute blast to ride!
i would recommend anyone who has a hardtail and wants to "upgrade" to a full sus, KEEP the hardtail, too!
i have a HT, a 115, a 140, a 165, and a 180. they all have a place. the Banshee always has a place in the rotation, for sure.
Great Point! Totally 100% agree. But, the first point and the most important point of the 3 is the hardest thing to teach. No school in the world can teach it. and it is called "COMMON SENSE". In short, it might appear pointless to people in regards to this conversation if they don't agree to point number 1.
Martin , I got a ‘Dawes wildcat’ in 88, I’m with you bro,…. Yes I’m safer with my dropper, plush suss, discs, nowadays but yeah - the whole pleasure is not being on the road, breathing fresh air not diesel soot, and smelling the roses+ scaring myself once and while cos I’m not skilled enough, but boy it’s makes me smile every time. Hard tail it is !
I think Martin is certainly right that in many ways the hardtail is the one and only do it all bike and will continue to be forever. We let ourselves be carried by the industry with longer travel, rear shocks, etc. but the modern hardtail is almost at the pinnacle of what a MTB represents and does. I would still argue that the modern geometry hasn’t caught on with the largest manufacturers and that’s when hardtails will still improve just a little bit. The graph was missing some of the stuff that tech brings with it. Safety, handling, stability at speed, downhill performance, etc. and all of that is mostly geometry and that’s where I think we can still improve a little bit. When the MTB’s at Walmart start to be built up with modern geos, we will be at the pinnacle of mountain biking. The Kona Honzo ESD is a great example of a do it all bike.
Finally the perfect bike for the masses will be here. (Hopefully before we destroy the world in the process 😢)
I got my first full sus just under a year ago and then one day I rode my freinds Hardtail and I was like wow this thing is fun to ride easy to climb
The question for me is: Are hardtails suitable for riders in the 120-160kg range? After all, I'm not trying break rims, blow out tubes and tires, or have to true up my spokes every trail weekend.
Damn it martin, you are 100 percent correct. *Goes to the garage for a ride on my flatbar gravel bike* and bypasses my 5k carbon super bike.
Most definitely. Luv my Cannondale ht. Iv had it since 2017. Iv upgraded a few parts n that but it's still goin strong. N in all the time iv own it iv had 1 puncture n I'm still using the original tubes. Luv all the content too guys n girls thanks
I'm convinced! Get me signed up!
Ridden 26” wheeled hardtails from 1991- 2024.. just got my first 29” and full sus and laughing my head off !!!
Best pitch ever soo true too.
I’m in.
Off to buy a gravel bike / nineties hardtail 😊
But fear not, I’ll still watch Gmbn 🤗
i would go even that far to call you only need one bike - a hardtail MTB and you are good. I have hardtail with suspension seatpost and basically have from comfort side a full sus and slightly narrower tires something of a gravel. that is my opinion though. I dont have the space for 2 or 3 bikes so thats how i chose
Once in a while a full suspension is a more comfortable ride especially on the knees, but for me i find myself riding the hardtail and gravel bike more and more, hardly use the full suspension.
Wil gmbn racing be covering this years/season xc,enduro,downhill?
Live or highlights ?
Yep, I'm a hardtail rider, and will always ride hardtails.
I ride very steep trails with people that ride FS bikes and keep up with them with no problem.
Yes, the best riders on competitions, with FS will always have the upper edge, but that doesn't translate to weekend warriors.
So, I'll never budge and fall into the FS trap
I thought the same thing until I demo rode a pivot switchblade and shadowcat. 100% saving up for a good full sus now but will probably keep the hardtail
Its not a trap. If you're that skilled I guarantee you'll go faster on full sus.
I rode hardtails for almost 20 years. No desire to go back.
@@johndef5075 I don't think I really want to go any faster. I'm up to 30 surgeries now 😬
I'm 62 y.o. and the very fact that I can keep up or lead FS bikes is hardcore enough for me, thanks! 😁
You proved it and I still ride a hardtail. Given really long rides the full susser saves your ass but in terms of fun its pretty much the same for me if not more on the hardtail as its so squirelly
When I started riding suspension wasn’t even a thing, full rigid bikes. I don’t know if I could handle that these days 😂
once I rode a dual suspension bike I could NEVER go back to that tooth rattling experience of a hardtail.
Love my Specialized Epic Hardtail.
I think this is also dependent on where you live and what you like to ride. Its quite rooty and chunky where I live, I had a hardtail and can say I have way more fun on my full sus. I dont like to pick lines I like to plow full speed ahead.😂
Budget hardtail, how much was that orbea 1200?
I have a 2022 Giant Talon, upgraded parts spent over a thousand dollars and yes I think for a beginner or light to medium xc trail riding and over the road I will never upgrade this for a fullsus.
For those in the UK who want to be a weekend warrior in the woods and for first time buyers, most will look at full suspension as their first bike because it is a more capable bike overall.
However! Any experienced biker will likely agree that for weekend warrior style uk single track a hardtail is all you need. If not that then a ebike hardtail would cover 90% of peoples needs.
Although what you find is most are middle aged e bikers riding in the peaks with 160mm front and rear. To me they typically look over biked.
Thats not to say buy what you want and do whatever makes you happy!
This is a Chinese copy of the Panaracer Swoop AT..but they awesomely offer 29er sizes and more sozes for 27.5 and 26
Theres also a DH version which has taller lugs.
Hard to find a place to ship ti the USA...but ill eventually find it to compare..
Their Rock Wolf tire looks good too
I still have my Saracen mantra elite hardtail . I bought it as a shop demo and got it for a good price . Around 7 years ago and absolutely love it
My 1998? Trek 4300 is absolutely terrifying to ride these days.
I remember it being awesome! Comparatively, it's really not functional anymore...
Most definitely love my ht ns eccentric
Here in Canada you can buy the same milk from the same farm packed into “no name”, “brand name”, and “organic” boxes, and having different price tags. It is marketing. It is to cover different market segments. Who knows, maybe buyers of 10k bikes pay for R&D so that buyers of 0.5k bikes can get better bikes?
I spent 800$ for a hard tail .malrin bobcat trail 4. Only upgrade is the pedals 😅 its been throgh alot
i've entered a local enduro on my scout, my legs are not happy with me :)
Hi I have a giant talon 3 and love it the best bike I've ever owned
😂alots changed since the muddy fox courier or sorcerer pro, ragley big al is my hardtail, im not the best of technical terrain rider, but i can ride it all day👌😎
I Agree Martin and especially love your comment about MJ 😂
I love my Specialized Rockhopper!
Love ‘Hounds and Beagles’. I noticed, no beagles. Understandable, because if they’re anything like my beagle, Beanie, they’d be gone, off doing their own trails, the nanosecond of being released from the lead. She’ll rejoin me back at the car a couple of hours later, to be washed down with the bike.
Was hoping for some more Laufey shredding
I've been racing a Saracen Kili recently, very 90s.. I also run a bike workshop so get to ride all sorts.
500 quid bikes are pretty good by comparison with the 90s Kili but not as quick off the mark, probably due to wheel weight and geometry. Getting over roots and rocks are going to be easier on the modern stuff so you'd not get so battered racing on a modern bike.
90 minutes racing the Kili is hard work, I haven't tried a modern bike in a race, had 20 years out of the cult😂 ... if I decide to race seriously next year I'll likely invest, in the meantime a couple of races at Cannock coming up for the Saracen.
Cheers.