A great article about the Tongsheng TSDZ2. I am also an Aussie rider. I have the 500watt version which is identical to the 250watt unit, so why would you ever buy the 250watt version, I have ridden nearly 8000 km on the original motor and have some important comments to make about the TSDZ2. The blue gear will last forever if you respect the unit by not locking up the rear wheel under power. DO NOT install the brass gear which is commonly promoted to replace it. I did it and the results were catastrophic. The drive gear on the Motor is not the correct hardness to work with the brass gear, therefore my brass gear and motor shaft were destroyed after only 1000km and very noisy. I had to buy a new Motor and blue gear! Chain alignment is critical with both Tongsheng and Bafang. I fitted an adapter on the rear hub to push the chain line over to the frame. By the way, I use a bullet proof Sturmey Archer 3 sp Internally geared hub as mid drives destroy rear cassettes. You do not need that many gears for a mid drive. I have two chainwheels at the front which I switch between by hand for off road and on road riding. No front de railer. Also, the thin 9 speed chains cannot handle the power of the mid drive, so I replaced the chain with a BMX 1/2" x 1/8" chain which has very little stretch.
Sorry to hear about your brass gear. I have now done more that 20k kms and no more issues. My friend has done similar kms and still on original blue gear but new sprag clutch. The open-source firmware is a great upgrade for this motor you won't believe how good it is. The motor can run at any power level limited by 20A x voltage up to 15s.
yes I've destroyed a motor by putting in a brass gear. Didn't know it happened because I locked rear wheel. I only use blue gear from now on. I learned not to abuse the motor
i have the citybike's stock 7 speed steel freewheel, which i've had for 4 years, but only about 1250km on the TSDZ2, no issues yet, i've never used throttle and i always brake with my front lever first (which is one of the Tongsheng's with the brake sensor @ the VLCD5) i do not see any real wear though, originally came with an KMC X8 chain, i've changed it to a KMC E8 chain as i pushed out a bit too much chainlinks and it was dirty as hell aswell as a bit rusty, so i just went with a new chain as it been on here for 3 years already. I personally look at going with a 52T chainring tho on my TSDZ2 as i don't feel like switching to a new wheel as i actually replaced my back wheel a while ago, in it's entirety, so with the 14T on the freewheel it doesn't go very fast
Thank You for your informative and honest review ;-) I just want to share a couple pros and cons for the Bosch- and Bafang motors, compared to the Tongsheng Tsdz2 I have a Bosch Performance 250W centermotor on a 3 - 4 year old ebike, which is born with this motorsetup and 10-speed external gear. It is a pleasure to ride, runs very quiet, smooth and powerfull if you want. And delivers up to 70Nm tourque at accelerations which is way higher than the 250W, which is only the limit it is allowed to deliver constantly. It is a pleasure on highest powerlevel-setting to run it fast through the gears as you is accelerating impressively. And it reduces automtically the power when changing gears. I have the simple Bosch-display, which also shows the rest km distance which is left in the battery, which changes according to which powersetting you choose, so You can easy just reduce your powersetting to fit the rest-distance home. But if the battery runs flat the Bosch-ebike is very hard to pedal home. And it is also almost impossible to pedal above the 25 - 27 km/h limit because of not optimal construction by Bosch. But at my Bafang motor there is no noticeable drag above 25 km/h. And if the Bosch-battery dies, The Bosch-setup needs an original Bosch-battery again, because of the communication between battery and motor. Or you could maybe just get your Bosch battery refurbised, because a new one is pretty expensive. Both the Tongsheng Tsdz2 motor and the Bafang 250W centermotor, which I have in my velomobile (3 wheels full covered recumbent bicycle), can both use all simple batterypacks, which is cheaper I chose a Bafang centermotor because it has reputation as more reliable than the Tongsheng Tsdz2, even though i would have liked its intuitive torque sensing. My bafang have now been running > 3000 km without issues. I normally only use the Bafang-motor a little e.g. for larger uphills Kind regards from denmark ;-)
Bafang motor stock programming is like a light switch ON or OFF but if you REPROGRAM it to current sensing you get the same feeling as a torque sensor and also variable speed throttle as well
about Bosch system, Yes i personally hate locked in systems like that, i would if i had one and it died (wether it be the motor or battery) just take the original BMS out and replace it with an aftermarket one and put an external driver on it lol, maybe a Vesc, will need some extra work to get it to work with the torque sensor properly but worth it in the end IMO
Yea your right in one aspect about the bafang motor stock programming is like a light switch ON or OFF but if you REPROGRAM it to current sensing you get the same feeling as a torque sensor and also variable speed throttle as well You just have to Play around with the settings to find the right SWEET spot that you like and this is what I did and havent found anything better on line anywhere even though many have posted there's is the best and I have tried most if NOT all of the .el files and reprogramed my BBSHD and it came down to I had to figure it out on my own and NOW it SMOOTH as silk and instantly responds to the throttle when I need it
@@snorttroll4379 I have done ALL the programing my self on both of my BBSHD motors with the same program settings even though the gear ratios are different it works quite well with the setting I have figured out over time to make it smooth I have Throttle on all pedal assist setting and even on 0 pedal assist Throttle works. I had never bought one of these motors but I was wanting to get a hold of one just to see how it compares to the BBSHD with the Proper program settings ( BUT the problem I found out that they DO NOT make his motor with a 100 or 120mm BB so I always stuck with the BBSHD )
The new TSDZ2B version has addressed both of these issues.
2 года назад
Normally I did not comment videos. But that video is very useful. I appreciate links behind the video. So thank you very much for that video and your effort.
Thank you! This kit would be for my daughter to keep her interested in biking. I thrown alot of bikes her way over the years. I think this tongsheng is the next ticket. I will follow your modifications
Isn't the blue plastic/nylon gear a sacrificial gear, ie. so it will break first with the torque and not destroy more components?. Would a brass/hard gear make the gearing too rigid to varying torque?
Very helpful video. Not surprised the trek is nicer, for the price, it better be. I pretty set on wanting torque sensing, so I think I'm going to give it a go for my first ebike. Thanks.
That thing doesn't even seem to compete against a normal ebike: $2000 for a CYC conversion kit vs. $1500-$2000 for ... an ebike. Maybe for extreme hobbyists? Or mountain bikers. I don't know
I have now done about 1500k’s speedo has been the only issue but I think I have it sorted. I have ordered a brass gear to have for a replacement when required. Difficult to understand why there are not more of these motors in use I oz.
All my ebike friends either have this or the Bafang so I think they are fairly popular in my small circles. We always argue about which is best but ultimately without any torque sensing you don't have that intimate connection between you and the bike.
I like the sound of this torque sensing motor, however, just a hint re the Bafang. I installed a 250W, 36V Bafang mid drive on my Giant Cypress City (9 year old hybrid) a couple of months ago. I set the power assist levels to be 1 - 5. I thought I'd try doing my commute using only level 3, in order to conserve the battery for my 60km round trip for the day. At level 3 the bike certainly felt weird to ride. The assistance would not be there, then it would, then once I was going along nicely it would cut out again - until I changed down a gear - then the assistance would kick in again. This is all due to the pedal rotation speed sensor that is used (no torque sensor). Well, to cut a long story short, the solution was to use level 4 as my usual assistance level. At level 4 the assistance is there pretty much all the time, and since my commute is long and winding, with a mixture of surfaces, I'm happy to have the speed. My 16Ah battery is not big enough for 60km at high power, so I just charge it up for a few hours at work. Even though the motor is only 250W, I am able to easily maintain around 36km/h on the flat.
bafang motor stock programming is like a light switch ON or OFF but if you REPROGRAM it to current sensing you get the same feeling as a torque sensor and also variable speed throttle as well
I've been using this motor for food couriering on a road bike and I'm coming close to 3000km. Yes I agree my experience has been fantastic! But there has been gripes 1. Get rid of the blue gear, its crap I wrecked it in 300km. 2. The silver bottom bracket lock ring. If that bugger isn't tight it will come loose causing the motor to wobble and wreck the cogs, So i whacked it super tight, now it is completely seized and I even wrecked the weak tool provided, so I can no longer perform maintenance and the frame is stuck with the motor. 3. Poor firmware, which is all addressed with the the open software it seems! The 90 rpm limit with poor upper power was very disappointing, so I switched gearing to the 52t chainring and 16t cog using a nexus 3sp gear hub (with solid thick chain, so more wrecking cassettes) to optimize the low rpm power and torque. That ratio could push the bike to top speed of 45kph. However, this hard gearing caused far to much wobble which caused the motor cog to slip and wrecked the bullet proof nexus high gear. But the open software seems to solve the necessity. Can't wait to try it!
What made you pick this over the bafang mid drive? Fellow courier here having decision paralysis between the two. Im fairly fit and mileage isn't an issue for me. But what I'm really after is more speed/power so that I can do more orders. Not really interested in a hub drive as I'd rather have resistance/drag in the BB than in the wheels.
Thanks so much, I've been searching for the RPM of the 36v version which you talked about just around the 6 minute mark about it being 90 RPM, cool thanks.
Hi thanks for the great video and information. I e just purchased a second hand bike with the 48w Tongsheng motor. It’s almost brand new. Tho the throttle doesn’t seem to work. Just wondered if you can give any help or advice. Cheers Martin
Excelent videos excelent reviews. I like the way you talk calm and easy. Now to my question :) I already have a 48v batt pack could you please tell how this motor would behave? I mean regarding rpm limit. Also regarding torque output compared to bosch motors yamaha motors etc. Could you please tell me how it goes with a 48v battery? Thanks and keep up the nice videos
Thank you for this clear review. It made me decide to convert my loved full suspension hybrid commute bike with 21gears, 37x622 tires 90psi. I chose for the 48V 750W TSDZ2 and 12,5Ah battery. Because I like biking and so the torque sensor was supposed best for it and because the Open Source Firmware possibility in the future. For now I have just driven it to commute 52Km per day for 4 days and really like it. In full power mode I get easily 1 day(52km) with some 33% battery left on the 3 level battery indicator on the battery. With full3-4bft against the wind I get around 36km/h. And with wind in the back 41km/h. Now my questions; 1) the battery has 4 LEDs.1 always stays red and other 3 all green when fulle charged, when pressing the 'check' button. Is this the same with yours? 2) when the battery led indicator only shows 2 green leds, the battery indic5 on the vlcd5 display still show complete full. Same with yours? 3) what does the 'A' option in the setting menu really do? It is set to 16 by default. Some say it is the Ampere setting of the motor others says it has to do with the torque sensor. With 48V battery, this would be 16x48=768W, while the motor I ordered is 750W. Wouldn't that damage it, while it is the default setting? Someone told me that as long as you don't set it over 18 it can't do any harm(I did not install the throttle). But I also read somewhere that they set it to 32, which gave a lot more power obviously. Anyway, what is your experience and advice?
Hope you are enjoying the motor. If you only have the stock firmware then the A doesn't do anything just set it to 5 so you can prove it to yourself. Motors are only rated to about 350w continuous, above that for any more than a few minutes and they will overheat despite which motor you bought. If it starts cutting power and motor is hot to touch then best to let it cool down before you proceed otherwise you can burn out the motor. You will only exceed 350w if you are going up a hill so dont stress. My battery does not have any LEDs. The opensource firmware shows the actual voltage and the bars. I have 10S which is 30v to 42v. I assume you have 13s since it is a 48v motor which is 39v to 54.6v. Measure it with a multimeter after a full charge to see if the charger is charging all the way. The original VLCD5 is not very good for displaying voltage but you will figure this out in time for yourself.
Meh. My sprag clutch just went today - after 3200 miles. My blue gear is still going strong, I think - but I'll probably replace it at the same time seeing as I have to open the thing up. It's a pain but I'd still recommend the system. I also had to replace my crank arms as they bent after 200 miles. Shimano eBike cranks were a direct replacement and way better than the originals.
My friend is still on his Nylon gear at 4000km but another friend broke his in the first 300km so good call. Maybe you can ask the retailer if they can prefit the metal gear for you !
I like your tsdz2 videos. :) One question: What is the max power, where the tsdz2 can work continuously? I don't have temperature sensor yet. Have 48 V system.
About 220w continuous. But can peak at 1kw for a minute or so if you need to climb a hill. You should be around 220w at 35km/hr so don’t stress unless you want to cruise at 40
Great video I have 3500 km on mine no problems yet but have ordered a brass gear for when I give it a grease. One issue I have is turning it on, is there a trick to turn it on. I hold the button down for 1 sec up to 20 sec but the display does not stay on, it eventually stays on after several tries.
Well there is no trick just hold the button for 2 seconds and let it boot up. Obviously there is something wrong could be a poor connection somewhere, best of luck sorting it out. Maybe post in the endless sphere forum if you still can't find it.
Hello, maybe you can help me. I think I've got a problem with the torque sensor. The small speed numbers I think are for the torque, and at my device, the go up and down every second. Maybe you can see the same thing , if you pull out the cable of the sensor. Thank you.
Many thanks for your very informative video's. I purchased TSDZ-set one year ago and built it on to my Avaghon (dutch brand) trekkingbike. I use it for commuting and biketrips in Europe. After 3500 km I ran into exactly the same problem as you show in your short video: rattling sound with high pedalpower. As it was still under guarantee, the wholesaler in the Netherlands did the repair. The chainwheel was replaced. Installed the motor again. However a new sliding/gliding feeling with high pedalpower followed by the same ratlle. Again send back to the wholesaler. They replaced the freewheel. Is it correct that it is not an old-fashioned freewheel but, as I understand from your video, a special 'one-way' bearing? Installed the motor 2 weeks ago. With high pressure the same sliding but no rattling anymore. I have to send it back again but what can cause this sliding feeling? Also the motor makes now more sound and feels now more like a coffee-grinder. Any idea what causes this? Furthermore I have an issue from the beginning: play on the main axle. They say that is no problem but I feel it will in the end. What is your opinion? Can the aixle be replaced? One last question: as I think not to have run into it yet, what happens when the blue gear is defect or worn? I might replace it anyway for the metal one to avoid problems. Thanks so much for your answers. Best regards, Philip
Philip woudenberg did you ever find the problem? They have videos on that. it's the one way gear that makes that noise when it's stripped.. it was said that it is an easy fix. I watch the videos and the motor seems very simple. Not like the bafang motor..
@@Jonmc511 The problem was that the importer did not have spare parts and at first replaced the freewheel with a used part. He informed me when I send it back for the second time. Now they did have spare parts and replaced it with a new one. SInce then (7 months and 4000 km later) no more problems.
Just on the nylon gear, is it worth replacing it at the time of install? I'm about to order the 750W version, so figure the extra power will mean an even shorter life for the nylon. Do you have a link available for the metal gear you bought? Thanks again 👍
I got mine from psw power. Actually Im thinking about going back to the blue gear just for less noise. Some people have had good luck with the blue gear, it just depends how aggressive you ride. With the opensource firmware you can unlock your motor up to run as much power as you want P = 20 Amps x Voltage. Its the same motor, remember it is really a 250w motor just being over volted, anything above 250w will heat the motor up quickly so I recommend the temp sensor.
@@jbalatutube I spoke to Ben from Cap Rouge yesterday who said the nylon gear is a sacrificial element designed to protect the motor, which makes sense. How's your Tongsheng going these days, being a few years since you made the video?
@@jbalatutube I just fitted the brass gear and the noise was too much for me. It spoils my ride. So, on getting home I swapped it back. Silence (almost). The brass gear is now an emergency spare part.Although it may get quieter with use, I will never know. Happy riding and thank for the great videos @jbalautube :)
Hi and thanks so much for sharing your expertise. My motor (on a lightly used cross bike) began to develop a rumble as I pedalled. I thought it might be square ball bearings around the main shaft but began by changing the blue gear. Not very worn but general motor noise was less with the replacement while the rumble stayed the same. Smarter riders than I agree that it is square ball bearings and add that there seems to be a little play. I am planning to replace the Sprag clutch (as per you excellent video), and hope that the problem is not the other bearing at the other end of the shaft. Any suggestions?
Sprag clutch will slip when applying a lot of force with the motor turned off so don't change it if not required. Most of the noise comes from the blue gear. Other source of noise is if motor is rubbing on frame so please use a piece of rubber between the motor and frame.
@@jbalatutube Thanks again. I don't understand about your motor movement and the piece of rubber. Mine is rigidly mounted with the securing plate that I found on A-expr item 1005002734659757. I did replace the blue gear and the motor noise was smoother but the rumbling was exactly the same. There is a little play consistent with worn bearing - I will just have to open the motor up and have a look...
I owe @jbalatutube the latest news, even if it makes me look silly. To recap; my bike was developing a rumble as I pedalled. I had just given it to a reputable bike shop in Cairns for a service and they did all the normal things - clean, adjust brakes, change chain etc so figuring out the rumble was a problem. I figured it must be something in the motor and changed out the blue gear. Very slightly smoother but basically no change. Took it to a local bike nut (there are no bike shops nearer than Cairns 330 km away) and he couldn't identify the problem but he happened to check the chain - it was badly stretched after less that 250 km. Discussed with the Cairns bike shop and after he had telephoned around a bit, he allowed me to buy a KMC e10 chain (after I had extended the mortgage on my house). That worked. No rumble BUT the bike was 'jumping' when I put weight on the pedals. This is where the silly bit comes in. As jumping is a symptom of sprag clutch problems, I ordered a new bearing from Australian company Plaig. Came very quickly and I managed to fit it using your video guide - thank you. Made no difference at all. I thought a bit more and realised my problems had started with the new, unsuitable chain. I have Rohloff hub and - surprise, surprise - the back sprocket was worn. After a very quick delivery from Rohloff in Australia, fitted the new sprocket and the bike now runs as smooth as silk. So all along it was conventional chain issues and nothing to do with my TSDA2.
@@JacquelineGeorge51 Wow I'm glad you finally worked it out !! I have had worn chains and rear cassettes and they usually just result in poor gear changing and slipping under load. Sometimes I feel like the chain is rough but a bit of wet change lube seems to sort it out. Anyway my motor is still going strong just replaced the brass gear with a blue gear just to make it more quiet and smooth and I'm really happy with it. Best commuting bike by far.
Happy New Year - and many happy kilometres. Can I ask you a question? I started to develop clicking in my left pedal. As I push down with weight on the pedal, I hit a rough and noisy spot, perhaps square ball bearings? Fine, not worth fixing the pedal so I swapped for a spare pair and - guess what - exactly the same noise and feeling. It must be something at the left end of the main shaft - the vibrations don't come through to the other pedal. The castellated retaining ring is done up nice and tight. Do you have any suggestions?
Hello, thanks for the video. Can you please comment about range considering the battery you have and what is the impact in range if level assistance changes or terrain you ride have multiple hills to climb. Regards,
I get about 40kms on relatively flat terrain with 360wh battery at low levels of assist around 180-230watts. Its an old battery though and I could get around 55kms when it was new. Obviously the more assist you use then the more watts are consumed. If you run 300 watts continuous then you get 30% less range but you also run the risk of overheating the motor too. With average of 200 watts assist I dont have to sweat riding to work
My bike has a front derailleur. Now I think of adding a 52t chainwheel/ring. What do I need to order? Just a BCD 110mm 5 hole 52t chainring, or do I need an additional part, like some kind of spider or mounting and the distance between the chainrings? Also, I see units with 2 chainrings already fixed to each other, but that makes interchanging other size chainrings and/maintenance on 1 chainring impossible.
It can be done but the deraileur does not have enough movement to change and chain line will not be ideal.. Perhaps you are just better off with a 46 tooth or something like that if you are finding the 42 tooth is spinning out too much. Also an 11 tooth on the rear if you can. I really hate complexity. I find the 42 tooth perfect for offroad and commuting.
Yes there is anything beyond 250w for any length of time will start heating up the motor. On a warm day if you push it over 500w up a hill for about 5 minutes it can easily reach over 75 degrees C. A 48v motor will run cooler also you can get some thermal pads to transfer heat from the motor to the casing which helps a lot.
Hell I ride 30 miles a day during the week , 40 on Saturday and up to One hundred on Sunday! Way too much! I rotate my tires even three months, replace my tired every six months and bottom bracket and chain every year! How many kilometers is that? Think realistically. Motor or no how many miles can you expect to go? Even down hill both ways?
Hi. I have a question if I may. I've had a stroke and can't drive unless my eyes get better. I live 5 km (or 7 through the backstreets) from my local, preferred, shops, but I live on a mountain and there is a river between them and me. The total drop is about 60 meters but there is a loyt of up and down and the hills are steep. I've got a montague folding 26" bike but I'm older and not that fit and it's nearly killing me to ride it. So the question is which of these would you get for big paved hills ? I am in queensland, so aussie roads. I've tried a friend's leitner. It's better than my bike but it's still a lot of work. I'm thinking a mid drive should be better for torque multiplication than a hub motor ? I want to stay legal at 250W and not interested in tremendous speed just hill climbing. If I can get home before the ice cream melts I'll be happy :D Thank you for your time.
You are spot on about mid drives, the tsdz2 will get you up the hills in a low gear as long as you dont try to push it too hard. I would go for the 48v motor which has a bit more torque and wont overheat as much. Best to join up the endless sphere forums if you need help converting over to the opensource firmware which I highly recommend.
@@jbalatutube Thank you very much for your reply.This is the cheapest one I've found link below. Here in queensland 250W is our legal maximum. I didn't think the 250w came in 48V ? So you think the Tongsheng Tsdz2 will pull up hill better or as well as than the bafung ? I can land a bafung for about $600 so a lot more than the TSDZ at about $450 plus gst . Since my stroke I am not keen on messing with firmware etc, just want plug and play. I don't care how fast just minimum effort so I'm not pouring with sweat and gasping for breath at the shops/when I get home. Again thank you very much for your reply. www.aliexpress.com/item/32963646188.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.34c021a35DHwCD&algo_pvid=d4f0d805-16ab-4de6-a0ef-d62a814fe968&algo_expid=d4f0d805-16ab-4de6-a0ef-d62a814fe968-38&btsid=0bb0623e16036955275598050e69a5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
@@damiancarvolth5198 if you just want minimum effort then go for the Bafang, with the TSDZ2 you actually need to apply some torque for the motor to work, with the Bafang you can just clown peddle but because it doesn’t have a torque sensor you adjust your speed using the assist levels instead of using the force in your feet. I wouldn’t stress about the 250w rule, the Chinese motors aren’t subject to the same testing as the mainstream motors are like Bosch and Brose, if they were then they would only be rated as 100w. Unfortunately in their effort to sell their motors they claim maximum watts, you will never hear Bosch claiming maximum watts since they know they will get in trouble, instead they quote maximum torque. Read up the European test standards that these motors get tested to.
@@jbalatutube Oh really! If the chinese motors are that much weaker tehn maybe I'm better off spending extra and getting a bosch or does shimano do one ? I think you have to buy a whole bike if you go that way don't you ? Much bigger $ but if my eyes don't recover it will be my only means of personal transport. Again thank you for your help. Is there a good electric bike forum I could join ? I realise I've been plying you with questions which isn't really fair.
@@damiancarvolth5198 Well I also own a Trek Powerfly 5FS mountain bike fitted with 3 inch wide tyres. I can't recommend it enough, it makes any DIY bikes feel like something from Kmart. I paid $4K for a demo with 200kms on the clock. They are in high demand now and prices are sky rocketing but you may be lucky enough to find one. Lots of facebook groups around or check out E-MOUNTAINBIKE online magazine.
That is, does it feel heavier to drive a mid drive motor with a torque sensor than a hub motor with a cadence sensor? If you once have to pedal with a hard force that gets full power from the engine?
Yes indeed, the torque sensor makes it feel like a real bike it’s not going to move if you just ghost peddle it actually measures the amount of effort and multiplies it. It is a great feeling like you have super legs. With the cadence sensor there is no connection between your legs and the motor. It’s a very lazy and clumsy solution from the past which is no longer used in any brand name bikes.
I do not have this motor but I am wanting to get the 36 volt 350w version. So this motor has a 90 RPM limit? My question is can you pedal past that like 100+ RPM for instance?
Hi wonder if you can help, my TSDZ2 axle is slightly play, I couldn’t find any way to tighten it up like the normal standard bottom bracket does. What should I do or where do I look for adjustment if any? Or could it be the gearing system’s problem? Many thanks in advance.
It’s funny the noise varies a lot, when you put it in with new grease it is silent but then it will get noisier. I went back to the nylon gear because I couldn’t stand it any more
Is it normal to have play In the cranks straight away, I have done 38 miles so far but pretty much straight away there was play in the bottom bracket. When I hold the crank arm it is loose like a worn bottom bracket. Not to bad but I don't want it to get worse :(
Yes it is normal. If you are concerned then you can pull it apart and see what you can do, It may be coming from the sprag clutch which means you can’t do anything. I haven’t bothered with mine and it hasn’t gotten much worse. I have done about 30,000kms now
Where would I buy the brass gear replacement, a quick eBay search returned nothing gear related for the TSDZ2, what are the specifics if I wanted to buy one from a gear supplier?
I have only ever used the KT-LCD3, there is an update coming for field weakening which is pretty good. Sorry I cant comment on the other displays but Casainho has stopped developing for them too and looking at using his phone and garmin wirelessly. Im happy with the KT-LCD3
@@jbalatutube thanks for this. The current offering from pswpower.com is the XH-18LCD, VLCD5 or VLCD6. From what I've been able to find out about them they all have pros and cons. VLCD5 is the only one that allows for e-brakes but is huge in comparison to the others. VLCD6 is metric only, which is a deal breaker for some.. not for me in Oz. The XH-18 is a small twist operated display. I'm still trying to figure out which would be best for me.
@@pohaa ha ha its up to whatever appeals to you they all show minimal information. If you upgrade to the opensource firmware you could go for the kt-lcd3 or sw102 or even the color 860c depending on the firmware you want to run then you will have full control of your motor and a much better experience
@@jbalatutube that does sound good! I'm just at the start of my e-bike journey so to speak.. so definitely interested to know what's possible! I had a horrible Voilamart PAS system, now just learning about the torque sensing option. Your video gave me a lot of confidence that it's a good option to pursue 👍
The blue gear is a deliberate weak link. If (for example) the chain comes off and jams the cranks, the cheap easy to replace blue gear gets mashed - rather than all the expensive gears destroyed.
I dont think the rear is the issue as long as your deraileur works with it. I just have a standard 9 speed. On the front I use the 42 tooth that was supplied. It is dished in to get a better chain line with the back. It is possible to run 2 rings on the front but difficult to set up
Thanks for the video! One thing im curious about is that you mentioned that there are aspects on Bosch-motor that you prefer over Tongsheng. Would you not rather have Bosch-motor instead of Tongsheng? Comparison video/info would be very nice! I ask because im thinking between purchasing motor or whole bike for good. Bosch-motored bikes are not so expensive after all.
The Bosch is smoother and quieter, the tsdz2 is clunky and loud. The Bosch is a stronger motor it can handle high loads for long periods without overheating. The tsdz2 is powerful but will overheat if you go up big hills. But for DIY and price I would highly recommend it. If you have the money then a big brand bike is going to be much better.
Yes I got the battery made locally for about A$320. It is 10s 3p using 18650 GA cells with built in BMS. I 3D printed my own case since the other ones are too big for 30 batteries. I recharge every 40km but I have done up to 53km on a single charge. If you are in Melbourne then try Lash ebikes in Bendigo
I bought a 36v 250W Tsdz2 from PSWPower and fitted it to a Trek 9700 carbon framed bike in October 2018 after viewing this excellent video. The bike weighs just 20KG with motor and battery. As expected, the Sprag clutch and Blue gear both failed within 200km of use and have been replaced with no further problems after 2,000km hard offroad riding. The Battery was bought from PSWPower (with Chinese cells) failed after 2 weeks and cut out after less than 18km riding, After a lot of research, I bought a replacement 21Ah battery and now get 60km range on full power. Here is a link enerprof.de/fahrradakkus/rahmengestell-akkus/akkus-36v-10s/?p=1 and the new battery is excellent. Two questions - Can I just use a 48v battery with my existing setup (which is 36v) or will this damage the motor and controller ? ? Secondly a 38 tooth front gear ring was supplied fitted to the motor but I use a non dished 42 tooth ring. Does anyone know where I can buy a 42 tooth dished front gear ring for the Tsdz2 ? ?
I'm experiencing some noise on mine, do you know if it coud be related to the blue gear? here is the noise I'm talking about : ruclips.net/user/shortsbPzXz8fFZeI ( it happens even without the chain on it, and powered off ), thank you!
Yep, I've got a bafang and a tongsheng. I call the bafang the socialist motor. You just pretend to work for what you get. The tongsheng, on the other hand, you have to actually work for. The tongsheng is alot safer than the bafang too. There's no sudden jumping into life just because you moved the pedals a bit.
Bafang BBS01, BBS02, BBSHD is more like a moped with cadence sensor, Tongsheng TSDZ2 is only to take the sting out of a bike ride depending on expectations and a specific environment.
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg well some motors are good, I have a 250w hub motor which is way faster than the 750w tongsheng, the tsdz2 does 25km while the hub does 35km, I have taken the speed limit off but still
@@gaddyaudits If judging by the size of the TSDZ2 BLDC motor it's roughly only around 120-200W. 750W is only a transient peak power, not continuous power. The air gap between the motor and the external cover with low thermal conductivity leading to insufficient heat shedding path doesn't help either. Efficiency of TSDZ2 might be a bit better than for hub drives in general, depending on correct gear shifting. I was able to ride TSDZ2 with 35km/h cruising speed on the flat ground for 50km with 50% left from 10Ah 36V battery at 10 degree Celsius ambient temperature. When taking 70km route consisting of four to five 5-7% grade rolling hills it consumes 25-50% of the 10Ah 36V battery depending on conditions at 17-20km/h average speed. Probably the off-putting thing might be that hill climbing speed depends on correct gear selection when it comes to torque sensors, if the gear is too low then the applied torque will be too low and cadence too high which leads to little help from the motor. Closely spaced granny gears might be needed.
Open sidebar Upgrade Tongsheng Motor Firmware User How do i upgrade the software of the tongsheng motor to the open source one ChatGPT To upgrade the software of a Tongsheng motor to an open-source one, you'll typically need to follow a few steps. Please note that the specific process may vary depending on the model and version of the Tongsheng motor, as well as the open-source software you intend to use. However, I can provide you with a general guideline to help you get started: Research open-source firmware: Identify and select the open-source firmware that is compatible with your Tongsheng motor. The most popular open-source firmware for Tongsheng motors is generally known as "TSDZ2 OpenSource Firmware." Obtain the necessary tools: To upgrade the firmware, you'll need a few tools, including a programming cable or adapter, a compatible programming software, and a computer. Connect the motor to your computer: Use the programming cable or adapter to establish a connection between your Tongsheng motor and the computer. Ensure that the connection is secure. Download and install the programming software: Visit the website or community forum associated with the open-source firmware you've chosen. Look for the software and download it to your computer. Follow the instructions provided to install the programming software. Prepare the firmware files: Once you have the programming software installed, download the appropriate firmware files for your Tongsheng motor model and version. Ensure that you are using the correct firmware version to avoid compatibility issues. Flash the new firmware: Open the programming software and follow its instructions to flash the new firmware onto your Tongsheng motor. This process typically involves selecting the firmware files, configuring any relevant settings, and initiating the flashing process. Be patient and let the software complete the flashing process without interruption. Verify the firmware upgrade: After the firmware has been successfully flashed, disconnect your Tongsheng motor from the computer. Reconnect it to your e-bike and test the functionality. Ensure that all the features and settings are working as expected. It's worth noting that firmware upgrades can carry risks, and improper installation or incompatible firmware can potentially damage your motor or void any warranty. It's essential to thoroughly research and understand the specific requirements and recommendations provided by the open-source firmware community or developers before proceeding. Additionally, consider joining online forums or communities dedicated to Tongsheng motor modifications. There, you can find detailed tutorials, user experiences, and guidance from fellow e-bike enthusiasts who have already gone through the process. Always exercise caution and proceed at your own risk when attempting any firmware modifications. Send a message... Free Research Preview. ChatGPT may produce inaccurate information about people, places, or facts. ChatGPT May 24 Version
@@007mwn the OSF firmware makes it so much better and you caqn control manu aspects and run whatever power you want. Remember you can run up to 1000w for a minute or so just as long as you have the temp sensor for safety. Stock is boring.
A great article about the Tongsheng TSDZ2. I am also an Aussie rider.
I have the 500watt version which is identical to the 250watt unit, so why would you ever buy the 250watt version,
I have ridden nearly 8000 km on the original motor and have some important comments to make about the TSDZ2.
The blue gear will last forever if you respect the unit by not locking up the rear wheel under power.
DO NOT install the brass gear which is commonly promoted to replace it.
I did it and the results were catastrophic. The drive gear on the Motor is not the correct hardness to work with the brass gear, therefore my brass gear and motor shaft were destroyed after only 1000km and very noisy.
I had to buy a new Motor and blue gear!
Chain alignment is critical with both Tongsheng and Bafang. I fitted an adapter on the rear hub to push the chain line over to the frame.
By the way, I use a bullet proof Sturmey Archer 3 sp Internally geared hub as mid drives destroy rear cassettes.
You do not need that many gears for a mid drive.
I have two chainwheels at the front which I switch between by hand for off road and on road riding. No front de railer.
Also, the thin 9 speed chains cannot handle the power of the mid drive, so I replaced the chain with a BMX 1/2" x 1/8" chain which has very little stretch.
Sorry to hear about your brass gear. I have now done more that 20k kms and no more issues. My friend has done similar kms and still on original blue gear but new sprag clutch. The open-source firmware is a great upgrade for this motor you won't believe how good it is. The motor can run at any power level limited by 20A x voltage up to 15s.
Dose can open source firmare limit motor phase current?
yes I've destroyed a motor by putting in a brass gear. Didn't know it happened because I locked rear wheel. I only use blue gear from now on. I learned not to abuse the motor
i have the citybike's stock 7 speed steel freewheel, which i've had for 4 years, but only about 1250km on the TSDZ2, no issues yet, i've never used throttle and i always brake with my front lever first (which is one of the Tongsheng's with the brake sensor @ the VLCD5)
i do not see any real wear though, originally came with an KMC X8 chain, i've changed it to a KMC E8 chain as i pushed out a bit too much chainlinks and it was dirty as hell aswell as a bit rusty, so i just went with a new chain as it been on here for 3 years already.
I personally look at going with a 52T chainring tho on my TSDZ2 as i don't feel like switching to a new wheel as i actually replaced my back wheel a while ago, in it's entirety, so with the 14T on the freewheel it doesn't go very fast
How do you put the new software into the system?
Thank You for your informative and honest review ;-)
I just want to share a couple pros and cons for the Bosch- and Bafang motors, compared to the Tongsheng Tsdz2
I have a Bosch Performance 250W centermotor on a 3 - 4 year old ebike, which is born with this motorsetup and 10-speed external gear.
It is a pleasure to ride, runs very quiet, smooth and powerfull if you want. And delivers up to 70Nm tourque at accelerations which is way higher than the 250W, which is only the limit it is allowed to deliver constantly.
It is a pleasure on highest powerlevel-setting to run it fast through the gears as you is accelerating impressively. And it reduces automtically the power when changing gears.
I have the simple Bosch-display, which also shows the rest km distance which is left in the battery, which changes according to which powersetting you choose, so You can easy just reduce your powersetting to fit the rest-distance home.
But if the battery runs flat the Bosch-ebike is very hard to pedal home. And it is also almost impossible to pedal above the 25 - 27 km/h limit because of not optimal construction by Bosch. But at my Bafang motor there is no noticeable drag above 25 km/h.
And if the Bosch-battery dies, The Bosch-setup needs an original Bosch-battery again, because of the communication between battery and motor. Or you could maybe just get your Bosch battery refurbised, because a new one is pretty expensive.
Both the Tongsheng Tsdz2 motor and the Bafang 250W centermotor, which I have in my velomobile (3 wheels full covered recumbent bicycle), can both use all simple batterypacks, which is cheaper
I chose a Bafang centermotor because it has reputation as more reliable than the Tongsheng Tsdz2, even though i would have liked its intuitive torque sensing. My bafang have now been running > 3000 km without issues. I normally only use the Bafang-motor a little e.g. for larger uphills
Kind regards from denmark ;-)
Bafang motor stock programming is like a light switch ON or OFF but if you REPROGRAM it to current sensing you get the same feeling as a torque sensor and also variable speed throttle as well
about Bosch system, Yes i personally hate locked in systems like that, i would if i had one and it died (wether it be the motor or battery) just take the original BMS out and replace it with an aftermarket one and put an external driver on it lol, maybe a Vesc, will need some extra work to get it to work with the torque sensor properly but worth it in the end IMO
Thanks for the review. I'm at 1200km on 48v 500w. No issues yet.
Yea your right in one aspect about the bafang motor stock programming is like a light switch ON or OFF but if you REPROGRAM it to current sensing you get the same feeling as a torque sensor and also variable speed throttle as well
You just have to Play around with the settings to find the right SWEET spot that you like and this is what I did and havent found anything better on line anywhere even though many have posted there's is the best and I have tried most if NOT all of the .el files and reprogramed my BBSHD and it came down to I had to figure it out on my own and NOW it SMOOTH as silk and instantly responds to the throttle when I need it
Is there a resource for this? I'm sure many readers are interested
Did you find it or get chat gpt to answer?
@@snorttroll4379 I have done ALL the programing my self on both of my BBSHD motors with the same program settings even though the gear ratios are different it works quite well with the setting I have figured out over time to make it smooth I have Throttle on all pedal assist setting and even on 0 pedal assist Throttle works.
I had never bought one of these motors but I was wanting to get a hold of one just to see how it compares to the BBSHD with the Proper program settings ( BUT the problem I found out that they DO NOT make his motor with a 100 or 120mm BB so I always stuck with the BBSHD )
@@E_-_- you mean the Program used to reprogram the BBSHD or this motor
Can you explain how you made the adjustment? I love the torque sensor. However, unfortunately, this is not available in BBDSH.
The new TSDZ2B version has addressed both of these issues.
Normally I did not comment videos. But that video is very useful. I appreciate links behind the video.
So thank you very much for that video and your effort.
Thank you for watching :)
Thank you! This kit would be for my daughter to keep her interested in biking. I thrown alot of bikes her way over the years. I think this tongsheng is the next ticket. I will follow your modifications
Isn't the blue plastic/nylon gear a sacrificial gear, ie. so it will break first with the torque and not destroy more components?. Would a brass/hard gear make the gearing too rigid to varying torque?
theoretically but I have not had any other failures since knock on wood. Just stick to the plastic one and treat it nice
Very helpful video. Not surprised the trek is nicer, for the price, it better be. I pretty set on wanting torque sensing, so I think I'm going to give it a go for my first ebike. Thanks.
Thanks for this. The competitor to this now is the CYC Photon which has a bit more power.
That thing doesn't even seem to compete against a normal ebike: $2000 for a CYC conversion kit vs. $1500-$2000 for ... an ebike. Maybe for extreme hobbyists? Or mountain bikers. I don't know
I am working on a super powerful one ANY INTEREST? the motor will be cery stealthy, light ,and xheap
I have now done about 1500k’s speedo has been the only issue but I think I have it sorted. I have ordered a brass gear to have for a replacement when required. Difficult to understand why there are not more of these motors in use I oz.
All my ebike friends either have this or the Bafang so I think they are fairly popular in my small circles. We always argue about which is best but ultimately without any torque sensing you don't have that intimate connection between you and the bike.
I like the sound of this torque sensing motor, however, just a hint re the Bafang. I installed a 250W, 36V Bafang mid drive on my Giant Cypress City (9 year old hybrid) a couple of months ago. I set the power assist levels to be 1 - 5. I thought I'd try doing my commute using only level 3, in order to conserve the battery for my 60km round trip for the day. At level 3 the bike certainly felt weird to ride. The assistance would not be there, then it would, then once I was going along nicely it would cut out again - until I changed down a gear - then the assistance would kick in again. This is all due to the pedal rotation speed sensor that is used (no torque sensor). Well, to cut a long story short, the solution was to use level 4 as my usual assistance level. At level 4 the assistance is there pretty much all the time, and since my commute is long and winding, with a mixture of surfaces, I'm happy to have the speed. My 16Ah battery is not big enough for 60km at high power, so I just charge it up for a few hours at work. Even though the motor is only 250W, I am able to easily maintain around 36km/h on the flat.
bafang motor stock programming is like a light switch ON or OFF but if you REPROGRAM it to current sensing you get the same feeling as a torque sensor and also variable speed throttle as well
How big chain ring in front?
I've been using this motor for food couriering on a road bike and I'm coming close to 3000km. Yes I agree my experience has been fantastic! But there has been gripes 1. Get rid of the blue gear, its crap I wrecked it in 300km. 2. The silver bottom bracket lock ring. If that bugger isn't tight it will come loose causing the motor to wobble and wreck the cogs, So i whacked it super tight, now it is completely seized and I even wrecked the weak tool provided, so I can no longer perform maintenance and the frame is stuck with the motor. 3. Poor firmware, which is all addressed with the the open software it seems! The 90 rpm limit with poor upper power was very disappointing, so I switched gearing to the 52t chainring and 16t cog using a nexus 3sp gear hub (with solid thick chain, so more wrecking cassettes) to optimize the low rpm power and torque. That ratio could push the bike to top speed of 45kph. However, this hard gearing caused far to much wobble which caused the motor cog to slip and wrecked the bullet proof nexus high gear. But the open software seems to solve the necessity. Can't wait to try it!
What made you pick this over the bafang mid drive? Fellow courier here having decision paralysis between the two. Im fairly fit and mileage isn't an issue for me.
But what I'm really after is more speed/power so that I can do more orders.
Not really interested in a hub drive as I'd rather have resistance/drag in the BB than in the wheels.
Maybe the OP preferred torque- to cadence-sensing for pedal-assist? That's one big difference.
You should use blue or red locktite to secure the silver bottom bracket lock ring. Once torqued to 40 Nm, this will prevent lockring from moving.
Where is that open source software and how does one put it into the motor system? How is it installed?
Hey John you need to add the stuff I talked about to get more hits
Thanks so much, I've been searching for the RPM of the 36v version which you talked about just around the 6 minute mark about it being 90 RPM, cool thanks.
Hi thanks for the great video and information.
I e just purchased a second hand bike with the 48w Tongsheng motor.
It’s almost brand new. Tho the throttle doesn’t seem to work.
Just wondered if you can give any help or advice.
Cheers
Martin
Excelent videos excelent reviews. I like the way you talk calm and easy. Now to my question :) I already have a 48v batt pack could you please tell how this motor would behave? I mean regarding rpm limit. Also regarding torque output compared to bosch motors yamaha motors etc. Could you please tell me how it goes with a 48v battery? Thanks and keep up the nice videos
Thank you for this clear review. It made me decide to convert my loved full suspension hybrid commute bike with 21gears, 37x622 tires 90psi. I chose for the 48V 750W TSDZ2 and 12,5Ah battery. Because I like biking and so the torque sensor was supposed best for it and because the Open Source Firmware possibility in the future. For now I have just driven it to commute 52Km per day for 4 days and really like it. In full power mode I get easily 1 day(52km) with some 33% battery left on the 3 level battery indicator on the battery. With full3-4bft against the wind I get around 36km/h. And with wind in the back 41km/h. Now my questions;
1) the battery has 4 LEDs.1 always stays red and other 3 all green when fulle charged, when pressing the 'check' button. Is this the same with yours?
2) when the battery led indicator only shows 2 green leds, the battery indic5 on the vlcd5 display still show complete full. Same with yours?
3) what does the 'A' option in the setting menu really do? It is set to 16 by default. Some say it is the Ampere setting of the motor others says it has to do with the torque sensor. With 48V battery, this would be 16x48=768W, while the motor I ordered is 750W. Wouldn't that damage it, while it is the default setting?
Someone told me that as long as you don't set it over 18 it can't do any harm(I did not install the throttle). But I also read somewhere that they set it to 32, which gave a lot more power obviously.
Anyway, what is your experience and advice?
Hope you are enjoying the motor. If you only have the stock firmware then the A doesn't do anything just set it to 5 so you can prove it to yourself. Motors are only rated to about 350w continuous, above that for any more than a few minutes and they will overheat despite which motor you bought. If it starts cutting power and motor is hot to touch then best to let it cool down before you proceed otherwise you can burn out the motor. You will only exceed 350w if you are going up a hill so dont stress. My battery does not have any LEDs. The opensource firmware shows the actual voltage and the bars. I have 10S which is 30v to 42v. I assume you have 13s since it is a 48v motor which is 39v to 54.6v. Measure it with a multimeter after a full charge to see if the charger is charging all the way. The original VLCD5 is not very good for displaying voltage but you will figure this out in time for yourself.
Meh. My sprag clutch just went today - after 3200 miles. My blue gear is still going strong, I think - but I'll probably replace it at the same time seeing as I have to open the thing up.
It's a pain but I'd still recommend the system. I also had to replace my crank arms as they bent after 200 miles. Shimano eBike cranks were a direct replacement and way better than the originals.
Are you Ronnie's brother?
@@nihilisticsoup2919 Lol. Nope - not related afaik.
Thanks for the info I'm looking purchase this more any day now.
I will also get the metal great just in case
My friend is still on his Nylon gear at 4000km but another friend broke his in the first 300km so good call. Maybe you can ask the retailer if they can prefit the metal gear for you !
I like your tsdz2 videos. :)
One question: What is the max power, where the tsdz2 can work continuously?
I don't have temperature sensor yet.
Have 48 V system.
About 220w continuous. But can peak at 1kw for a minute or so if you need to climb a hill. You should be around 220w at 35km/hr so don’t stress unless you want to cruise at 40
Great video I have 3500 km on mine no problems yet but have ordered a brass gear for when I give it a grease.
One issue I have is turning it on, is there a trick to turn it on. I hold the button down for 1 sec up to 20 sec but the display does not stay on, it eventually stays on after several tries.
Well there is no trick just hold the button for 2 seconds and let it boot up. Obviously there is something wrong could be a poor connection somewhere, best of luck sorting it out. Maybe post in the endless sphere forum if you still can't find it.
Thanks for an excellent review.
colin campbell Thank you :)
Hi great videos, do you know anyone who has managed to run brake sensor cut off on a hf18 bar mounted display the small one with a twist grip.
did you change any parts during 5000km
Hello, maybe you can help me. I think I've got a problem with the torque sensor. The small speed numbers I think are for the torque, and at my device, the go up and down every second. Maybe you can see the same thing , if you pull out the cable of the sensor. Thank you.
Please post this question in the Endless sphere discussion forum. Link above.
Many thanks for your very informative video's. I purchased TSDZ-set one year ago and built it on to my Avaghon (dutch brand) trekkingbike. I use it for commuting and biketrips in Europe.
After 3500 km I ran into exactly the same problem as you show in your short video: rattling sound with high pedalpower. As it was still under guarantee, the wholesaler in the Netherlands did the repair. The chainwheel was replaced. Installed the motor again. However a new sliding/gliding feeling with high pedalpower followed by the same ratlle. Again send back to the wholesaler. They replaced the freewheel.
Is it correct that it is not an old-fashioned freewheel but, as I understand from your video, a special 'one-way' bearing?
Installed the motor 2 weeks ago. With high pressure the same sliding but no rattling anymore. I have to send it back again but what can cause this sliding feeling?
Also the motor makes now more sound and feels now more like a coffee-grinder. Any idea what causes this?
Furthermore I have an issue from the beginning: play on the main axle. They say that is no problem but I feel it will in the end. What is your opinion? Can the aixle be replaced?
One last question: as I think not to have run into it yet, what happens when the blue gear is defect or worn? I might replace it anyway for the metal one to avoid problems.
Thanks so much for your answers. Best regards, Philip
@Zoide Also the battery at www.goedkoop-ombouwset-elektrisch-fietsen.nl/Webwinkel-Category-6428297/Ombouwset-midden-motor-+-accu.html
@Zoide www.elektrischefiets-ebike-efos.nl/
Philip woudenberg did you ever find the problem? They have videos on that. it's the one way gear that makes that noise when it's stripped.. it was said that it is an easy fix. I watch the videos and the motor seems very simple. Not like the bafang motor..
@@Jonmc511 The problem was that the importer did not have spare parts and at first replaced the freewheel with a used part. He informed me when I send it back for the second time. Now they did have spare parts and replaced it with a new one. SInce then (7 months and 4000 km later) no more problems.
Just on the nylon gear, is it worth replacing it at the time of install? I'm about to order the 750W version, so figure the extra power will mean an even shorter life for the nylon. Do you have a link available for the metal gear you bought? Thanks again 👍
I got mine from psw power. Actually Im thinking about going back to the blue gear just for less noise. Some people have had good luck with the blue gear, it just depends how aggressive you ride. With the opensource firmware you can unlock your motor up to run as much power as you want P = 20 Amps x Voltage. Its the same motor, remember it is really a 250w motor just being over volted, anything above 250w will heat the motor up quickly so I recommend the temp sensor.
@@jbalatutube I spoke to Ben from Cap Rouge yesterday who said the nylon gear is a sacrificial element designed to protect the motor, which makes sense. How's your Tongsheng going these days, being a few years since you made the video?
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@@hubertyepgoua4231 is that english ?
@@jbalatutube I just fitted the brass gear and the noise was too much for me. It spoils my ride. So, on getting home I swapped it back. Silence (almost). The brass gear is now an emergency spare part.Although it may get quieter with use, I will never know. Happy riding and thank for the great videos @jbalautube :)
Did you install the firmware upload to extend the cadence range from 90 to 120, if so what link did you get the download from thanks.
Have you tried the open source software that makes the motor behave more like a bosch embt motor?
Yes see my other videos
Hi and thanks so much for sharing your expertise. My motor (on a lightly used cross bike) began to develop a rumble as I pedalled. I thought it might be square ball bearings around the main shaft but began by changing the blue gear. Not very worn but general motor noise was less with the replacement while the rumble stayed the same. Smarter riders than I agree that it is square ball bearings and add that there seems to be a little play. I am planning to replace the Sprag clutch (as per you excellent video), and hope that the problem is not the other bearing at the other end of the shaft. Any suggestions?
Sprag clutch will slip when applying a lot of force with the motor turned off so don't change it if not required. Most of the noise comes from the blue gear. Other source of noise is if motor is rubbing on frame so please use a piece of rubber between the motor and frame.
@@jbalatutube Thanks again. I don't understand about your motor movement and the piece of rubber. Mine is rigidly mounted with the securing plate that I found on A-expr item 1005002734659757.
I did replace the blue gear and the motor noise was smoother but the rumbling was exactly the same. There is a little play consistent with worn bearing - I will just have to open the motor up and have a look...
I owe @jbalatutube the latest news, even if it makes me look silly. To recap; my bike was developing a rumble as I pedalled. I had just given it to a reputable bike shop in Cairns for a service and they did all the normal things - clean, adjust brakes, change chain etc so figuring out the rumble was a problem. I figured it must be something in the motor and changed out the blue gear. Very slightly smoother but basically no change. Took it to a local bike nut (there are no bike shops nearer than Cairns 330 km away) and he couldn't identify the problem but he happened to check the chain - it was badly stretched after less that 250 km. Discussed with the Cairns bike shop and after he had telephoned around a bit, he allowed me to buy a KMC e10 chain (after I had extended the mortgage on my house). That worked. No rumble BUT the bike was 'jumping' when I put weight on the pedals.
This is where the silly bit comes in. As jumping is a symptom of sprag clutch problems, I ordered a new bearing from Australian company Plaig. Came very quickly and I managed to fit it using your video guide - thank you. Made no difference at all.
I thought a bit more and realised my problems had started with the new, unsuitable chain. I have Rohloff hub and - surprise, surprise - the back sprocket was worn. After a very quick delivery from Rohloff in Australia, fitted the new sprocket and the bike now runs as smooth as silk. So all along it was conventional chain issues and nothing to do with my TSDA2.
@@JacquelineGeorge51 Wow I'm glad you finally worked it out !! I have had worn chains and rear cassettes and they usually just result in poor gear changing and slipping under load. Sometimes I feel like the chain is rough but a bit of wet change lube seems to sort it out. Anyway my motor is still going strong just replaced the brass gear with a blue gear just to make it more quiet and smooth and I'm really happy with it. Best commuting bike by far.
Happy New Year - and many happy kilometres. Can I ask you a question? I started to develop clicking in my left pedal. As I push down with weight on the pedal, I hit a rough and noisy spot, perhaps square ball bearings? Fine, not worth fixing the pedal so I swapped for a spare pair and - guess what - exactly the same noise and feeling. It must be something at the left end of the main shaft - the vibrations don't come through to the other pedal. The castellated retaining ring is done up nice and tight. Do you have any suggestions?
Is best to use a 52v battery or 48v battery on the 750w motor ?
tell us about the brass gear.
Hello, thanks for the video. Can you please comment about range considering the battery you have and what is the impact in range if level assistance changes or terrain you ride have multiple hills to climb. Regards,
I get about 40kms on relatively flat terrain with 360wh battery at low levels of assist around 180-230watts. Its an old battery though and I could get around 55kms when it was new. Obviously the more assist you use then the more watts are consumed. If you run 300 watts continuous then you get 30% less range but you also run the risk of overheating the motor too. With average of 200 watts assist I dont have to sweat riding to work
Thank you so much for the update!
My bike has a front derailleur. Now I think of adding a 52t chainwheel/ring. What do I need to order? Just a BCD 110mm 5 hole 52t chainring, or do I need an additional part, like some kind of spider or mounting and the distance between the chainrings? Also, I see units with 2 chainrings already fixed to each other, but that makes interchanging other size chainrings and/maintenance on 1 chainring impossible.
It can be done but the deraileur does not have enough movement to change and chain line will not be ideal.. Perhaps you are just better off with a 46 tooth or something like that if you are finding the 42 tooth is spinning out too much. Also an 11 tooth on the rear if you can. I really hate complexity. I find the 42 tooth perfect for offroad and commuting.
Than you for the review!! Just wanted to ask if there are any overheating issue if we push it hard for long hours?
Yes there is anything beyond 250w for any length of time will start heating up the motor. On a warm day if you push it over 500w up a hill for about 5 minutes it can easily reach over 75 degrees C. A 48v motor will run cooler also you can get some thermal pads to transfer heat from the motor to the casing which helps a lot.
@@jbalatutube Thank you for the insight! Need to get one of these to try out on my old MTB.
Hell I ride 30 miles a day during the week , 40 on Saturday and up to One hundred on Sunday! Way too much! I rotate my tires even three months, replace my tired every six months and bottom bracket and chain every year! How many kilometers is that? Think realistically. Motor or no how many miles can you expect to go? Even down hill both ways?
Keep it up stay fit and healthy. A normal bike will by far outlive an ebike.
Hi, i have mounted this motor to my MTB, will it hold up to some trail riding with small jumps and a lot of vibration?
How is it going so far? Be sure to use loctite on the silver bottom bracket lockring.
Itching to get it but is there a chance they will get cheaper? £315 (cheapest I found) sounds like over the top and with the inferior nylon gear...
Hi. I have a question if I may. I've had a stroke and can't drive unless my eyes get better. I live 5 km (or 7 through the backstreets) from my local, preferred, shops, but I live on a mountain and there is a river between them and me. The total drop is about 60 meters but there is a loyt of up and down and the hills are steep. I've got a montague folding 26" bike but I'm older and not that fit and it's nearly killing me to ride it. So the question is which of these would you get for big paved hills ? I am in queensland, so aussie roads. I've tried a friend's leitner. It's better than my bike but it's still a lot of work. I'm thinking a mid drive should be better for torque multiplication than a hub motor ? I want to stay legal at 250W and not interested in tremendous speed just hill climbing. If I can get home before the ice cream melts I'll be happy :D Thank you for your time.
You are spot on about mid drives, the tsdz2 will get you up the hills in a low gear as long as you dont try to push it too hard. I would go for the 48v motor which has a bit more torque and wont overheat as much. Best to join up the endless sphere forums if you need help converting over to the opensource firmware which I highly recommend.
@@jbalatutube Thank you very much for your reply.This is the cheapest one I've found link below. Here in queensland 250W is our legal maximum. I didn't think the 250w came in 48V ? So you think the Tongsheng Tsdz2 will pull up hill better or as well as than the bafung ? I can land a bafung for about $600 so a lot more than the TSDZ at about $450 plus gst . Since my stroke I am not keen on messing with firmware etc, just want plug and play. I don't care how fast just minimum effort so I'm not pouring with sweat and gasping for breath at the shops/when I get home. Again thank you very much for your reply. www.aliexpress.com/item/32963646188.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.34c021a35DHwCD&algo_pvid=d4f0d805-16ab-4de6-a0ef-d62a814fe968&algo_expid=d4f0d805-16ab-4de6-a0ef-d62a814fe968-38&btsid=0bb0623e16036955275598050e69a5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
@@damiancarvolth5198 if you just want minimum effort then go for the Bafang, with the TSDZ2 you actually need to apply some torque for the motor to work, with the Bafang you can just clown peddle but because it doesn’t have a torque sensor you adjust your speed using the assist levels instead of using the force in your feet. I wouldn’t stress about the 250w rule, the Chinese motors aren’t subject to the same testing as the mainstream motors are like Bosch and Brose, if they were then they would only be rated as 100w. Unfortunately in their effort to sell their motors they claim maximum watts, you will never hear Bosch claiming maximum watts since they know they will get in trouble, instead they quote maximum torque. Read up the European test standards that these motors get tested to.
@@jbalatutube Oh really! If the chinese motors are that much weaker tehn maybe I'm better off spending extra and getting a bosch or does shimano do one ? I think you have to buy a whole bike if you go that way don't you ? Much bigger $ but if my eyes don't recover it will be my only means of personal transport. Again thank you for your help. Is there a good electric bike forum I could join ? I realise I've been plying you with questions which isn't really fair.
@@damiancarvolth5198 Well I also own a Trek Powerfly 5FS mountain bike fitted with 3 inch wide tyres. I can't recommend it enough, it makes any DIY bikes feel like something from Kmart. I paid $4K for a demo with 200kms on the clock. They are in high demand now and prices are sky rocketing but you may be lucky enough to find one. Lots of facebook groups around or check out E-MOUNTAINBIKE online magazine.
That is, does it feel heavier to drive a mid drive motor with a torque sensor than a hub motor with a cadence sensor? If you once have to pedal with a hard force that gets full power from the engine?
Yes indeed, the torque sensor makes it feel like a real bike it’s not going to move if you just ghost peddle it actually measures the amount of effort and multiplies it. It is a great feeling like you have super legs. With the cadence sensor there is no connection between your legs and the motor. It’s a very lazy and clumsy solution from the past which is no longer used in any brand name bikes.
I do not have this motor but I am wanting to get the 36 volt 350w version. So this motor has a 90 RPM limit? My question is can you pedal past that like 100+ RPM for instance?
Yes you can pedal faster than 90 RPM....the motor just does not assist. There are software changes you can make to have motor assist up to 130 RPM.
Do you need brake cutoff and shift sensor with Tongsheng similar to Bafang?
No only if you want to use throttle which is not recommended
Hi wonder if you can help, my TSDZ2 axle is slightly play, I couldn’t find any way to tighten it up like the normal standard bottom bracket does. What should I do or where do I look for adjustment if any? Or could it be the gearing system’s problem? Many thanks in advance.
It’s normal to have some play you could try adding some shim washers but I wouldn’t worry unless it’s making noises
@@jbalatutube Appreciated and thank you for your advices.
Good videos. I have a problem too with my clutch. I only have a different motor with coaster brake.
Can you give me the link to your supplier at ebay?
Just do a search for CSK30P, I cant remember the supplier but it was shipped from Turkey.. I actually found some good prices on Amazon as well
How much louder is the brass gear compared to the nylon?
It’s funny the noise varies a lot, when you put it in with new grease it is silent but then it will get noisier. I went back to the nylon gear because I couldn’t stand it any more
Is it normal to have play In the cranks straight away, I have done 38 miles so far but pretty much straight away there was play in the bottom bracket. When I hold the crank arm it is loose like a worn bottom bracket. Not to bad but I don't want it to get worse :(
Yes it is normal. If you are concerned then you can pull it apart and see what you can do, It may be coming from the sprag clutch which means you can’t do anything. I haven’t bothered with mine and it hasn’t gotten much worse. I have done about 30,000kms now
@@jbalatutube wow 30,000 km, thanks for the help.
Hey!
I Need to replace the torque sensor in my same motor. Do you recommend anything, that to replace it's?
Sorry I haven’t needed to do this yet but there is a replacement part from pswpower
Where would I buy the brass gear replacement, a quick eBay search returned nothing gear related for the TSDZ2, what are the specifics if I wanted to buy one from a gear supplier?
I got mine from PSWPOWER
www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-84-g6x8
@@jbalatutube is it noisy or quiet with metal gear? Thanks!
@@pfischer a bit noisier
Do you have much experience with the different displays available with these? Which display is preferable in your opinion? Thanks
I have only ever used the KT-LCD3, there is an update coming for field weakening which is pretty good. Sorry I cant comment on the other displays but Casainho has stopped developing for them too and looking at using his phone and garmin wirelessly. Im happy with the KT-LCD3
@@jbalatutube thanks for this. The current offering from pswpower.com is the XH-18LCD, VLCD5 or VLCD6. From what I've been able to find out about them they all have pros and cons.
VLCD5 is the only one that allows for e-brakes but is huge in comparison to the others. VLCD6 is metric only, which is a deal breaker for some.. not for me in Oz. The XH-18 is a small twist operated display. I'm still trying to figure out which would be best for me.
@@pohaa ha ha its up to whatever appeals to you they all show minimal information. If you upgrade to the opensource firmware you could go for the kt-lcd3 or sw102 or even the color 860c depending on the firmware you want to run then you will have full control of your motor and a much better experience
@@jbalatutube that does sound good! I'm just at the start of my e-bike journey so to speak.. so definitely interested to know what's possible! I had a horrible Voilamart PAS system, now just learning about the torque sensing option. Your video gave me a lot of confidence that it's a good option to pursue 👍
What's the name of the nylon blue gear or how to search for it on eBay?
Not sure, just go to pswpower and look at tsdz2 spares. There is a nylon and metal gear
Do you install the motor into bikes? Do you provide that service? Cheers
I’m sorry no but it is really easy to do.. why don’t you give it a try
@@jbalatutube I’m terrible at this stuff… I’ll just ruin my bike. Any opinion of easy to install systems like the Rubbee or Revos?
Is your torque sensor still good after 5000km? I have read that some TSDZ2 owners broke their's immediately.
That video was done a long time ago, I must be over 15000km by now and haven't had any other issues so far.
Would you recommend changing the blue gear before riding the bike?
No way my friend has over 5000km on his blue gear, enjoy
The blue gear is a deliberate weak link.
If (for example) the chain comes off and jams the cranks, the cheap easy to replace blue gear gets mashed - rather than all the expensive gears destroyed.
What gearing do you use? Could i get away with 5 wide spaced cogs on rear?
I dont think the rear is the issue as long as your deraileur works with it. I just have a standard 9 speed. On the front I use the 42 tooth that was supplied. It is dished in to get a better chain line with the back. It is possible to run 2 rings on the front but difficult to set up
Thanks for the video! One thing im curious about is that you mentioned that there are aspects on Bosch-motor that you prefer over Tongsheng. Would you not rather have Bosch-motor instead of Tongsheng? Comparison video/info would be very nice!
I ask because im thinking between purchasing motor or whole bike for good. Bosch-motored bikes are not so expensive after all.
The Bosch is smoother and quieter, the tsdz2 is clunky and loud. The Bosch is a stronger motor it can handle high loads for long periods without overheating. The tsdz2 is powerful but will overheat if you go up big hills. But for DIY and price I would highly recommend it. If you have the money then a big brand bike is going to be much better.
@@jbalatutube will it overheat if you use your gears and use as a pedal assist?
@@Jonmc511 no, i do this all the time and it has never overheated
where did you buy yours ? and how mush approx ? thanks for the info
Crusaders hu Akbar it was from pswpower A$420 delivered to Australia
Yes I got the battery made locally for about A$320. It is 10s 3p using 18650 GA cells with built in BMS. I 3D printed my own case since the other ones are too big for 30 batteries. I recharge every 40km but I have done up to 53km on a single charge. If you are in Melbourne then try Lash ebikes in Bendigo
Hey brother! Great vid! Can you tell me, if i can fit the tdsz 350watt on any bike?
useful video thank you!
TKS
Great and helpful video. I have a question about changing the blue cog. My old one refuses to budge. Is there a tip around that?
great video
I bought a 36v 250W Tsdz2 from PSWPower and fitted it to a Trek 9700 carbon framed bike in October 2018 after viewing this excellent video. The bike weighs just 20KG with motor and battery. As expected, the Sprag clutch and Blue gear both failed within 200km of use and have been replaced with no further problems after 2,000km hard offroad riding. The Battery was bought from PSWPower (with Chinese cells) failed after 2 weeks and cut out after less than 18km riding, After a lot of research, I bought a replacement 21Ah battery and now get 60km range on full power. Here is a link enerprof.de/fahrradakkus/rahmengestell-akkus/akkus-36v-10s/?p=1 and the new battery is excellent. Two questions - Can I just use a 48v battery with my existing setup (which is 36v) or will this damage the motor and controller ? ? Secondly a 38 tooth front gear ring was supplied fitted to the motor but I use a non dished 42 tooth ring. Does anyone know where I can buy a 42 tooth dished front gear ring for the Tsdz2 ? ?
I thought carbon frame wasn't adapted for middle motors. Maybe it can depend
@@k-member Carbon frame is fine for mid motors. It's the front hub motor that's risky.
Damaged nylon sprocket is because You don`t know how to use correct gear, especially during up hill climb
I'm experiencing some noise on mine, do you know if it coud be related to the blue gear? here is the noise I'm talking about : ruclips.net/user/shortsbPzXz8fFZeI ( it happens even without the chain on it, and powered off ), thank you!
Please post in the tsdz2 forum in endless sphere
Yep, I've got a bafang and a tongsheng.
I call the bafang the socialist motor. You just pretend to work for what you get.
The tongsheng, on the other hand, you have to actually work for.
The tongsheng is alot safer than the bafang too. There's no sudden jumping into life just because you moved the pedals a bit.
This motor is no good, bought a new one fitted it on a recumbent trike, but it has slowed down the trike drastically, a bafang is way better than this
Bafang BBS01, BBS02, BBSHD is more like a moped with cadence sensor, Tongsheng TSDZ2 is only to take the sting out of a bike ride depending on expectations and a specific environment.
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg still disappointed in it
@@gaddyaudits Agreed, cause it's only a entry level mid drive which is made like a toy, just like most of the ebikes.
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg well some motors are good, I have a 250w hub motor which is way faster than the 750w tongsheng, the tsdz2 does 25km while the hub does 35km, I have taken the speed limit off but still
@@gaddyaudits If judging by the size of the TSDZ2 BLDC motor it's roughly only around 120-200W. 750W is only a transient peak power, not continuous power. The air gap between the motor and the external cover with low thermal conductivity leading to insufficient heat shedding path doesn't help either. Efficiency of TSDZ2 might be a bit better than for hub drives in general, depending on correct gear shifting. I was able to ride TSDZ2 with 35km/h cruising speed on the flat ground for 50km with 50% left from 10Ah 36V battery at 10 degree Celsius ambient temperature. When taking 70km route consisting of four to five 5-7% grade rolling hills it consumes 25-50% of the 10Ah 36V battery depending on conditions at 17-20km/h average speed. Probably the off-putting thing might be that hill climbing speed depends on correct gear selection when it comes to torque sensors, if the gear is too low then the applied torque will be too low and cadence too high which leads to little help from the motor. Closely spaced granny gears might be needed.
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Upgrade Tongsheng Motor Firmware
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How do i upgrade the software of the tongsheng motor to the open source one
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To upgrade the software of a Tongsheng motor to an open-source one, you'll typically need to follow a few steps. Please note that the specific process may vary depending on the model and version of the Tongsheng motor, as well as the open-source software you intend to use. However, I can provide you with a general guideline to help you get started:
Research open-source firmware: Identify and select the open-source firmware that is compatible with your Tongsheng motor. The most popular open-source firmware for Tongsheng motors is generally known as "TSDZ2 OpenSource Firmware."
Obtain the necessary tools: To upgrade the firmware, you'll need a few tools, including a programming cable or adapter, a compatible programming software, and a computer.
Connect the motor to your computer: Use the programming cable or adapter to establish a connection between your Tongsheng motor and the computer. Ensure that the connection is secure.
Download and install the programming software: Visit the website or community forum associated with the open-source firmware you've chosen. Look for the software and download it to your computer. Follow the instructions provided to install the programming software.
Prepare the firmware files: Once you have the programming software installed, download the appropriate firmware files for your Tongsheng motor model and version. Ensure that you are using the correct firmware version to avoid compatibility issues.
Flash the new firmware: Open the programming software and follow its instructions to flash the new firmware onto your Tongsheng motor. This process typically involves selecting the firmware files, configuring any relevant settings, and initiating the flashing process. Be patient and let the software complete the flashing process without interruption.
Verify the firmware upgrade: After the firmware has been successfully flashed, disconnect your Tongsheng motor from the computer. Reconnect it to your e-bike and test the functionality. Ensure that all the features and settings are working as expected.
It's worth noting that firmware upgrades can carry risks, and improper installation or incompatible firmware can potentially damage your motor or void any warranty. It's essential to thoroughly research and understand the specific requirements and recommendations provided by the open-source firmware community or developers before proceeding.
Additionally, consider joining online forums or communities dedicated to Tongsheng motor modifications. There, you can find detailed tutorials, user experiences, and guidance from fellow e-bike enthusiasts who have already gone through the process.
Always exercise caution and proceed at your own risk when attempting any firmware modifications.
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Which Open Source do you run? What Voltage?
I’m using the Emma brusa ktlcd3 version C.1. I’m running a 36v motor with 36v battery. I was aiming for a lightweight setup.
@@jbalatutube I am planning the same for a local city commuter! 350W motor I think can be pushed to 500W with EMMABRUSA
@@007mwn keep in mind the motor will start overheating above 220w so make sure you install the temp sensor
@@jbalatutube then maybe the stock 350w is enough
@@007mwn the OSF firmware makes it so much better and you caqn control manu aspects and run whatever power you want. Remember you can run up to 1000w for a minute or so just as long as you have the temp sensor for safety. Stock is boring.