Shane Dawson, 9/11 Trutherism, and Cancel Culture | Deep Cut
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2022
- Let's talk about Shane Dawson and some of his salty little beliefs.
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I think it's commendable that Big Joel has the introspection to realize the rambly incoherence of this video. He usually structures his arguments more carefully.
I find the idea that cancel culture has become its own narrative aesthetic interesting and certainly this idea deserves further exploration. However, couching this idea in the canceling of Shane Dawson alone does it a disservice.
The points Big Joel makes lack the greater context of the larger RUclipsr/TickToker grooming scandal which adds a certain topicality that would also drive the narrative of D'Angelo Wallace's video.
Additionally, I would argue the normalization of the predatory practices in Shane's documentary and conspiracy videos already preclude them from being part of his cancelization narrative. Relative to his grooming, peddling conspiracies and merchandise to children while insidious and problematic is a normal aspect of internet content. Essentially no one cares what kind of content a child groomer and pedophile is making unless it further substantiates that status.
Lastly I would caution exploration of systematic problems through vilification of a single individual, this potentially lends itself to scapegoating ie Shane Dawson is canceled therefore the platforms and incentive systems in place that molded this content and allowed it to reach such prominence are also fixed
Every Joel has its big
Thanks for sharing these. I really enjoy your content and am also poor lol…it’s a tough ask to pay for content when the internet is full of such great free stuff. I mean no offense, and am not suggesting that a single thing about your structure change (people deserve to have security met and we accomplish this as a society through money…which I think is both wrong and foolish but no one asked me), just pointing out that I enjoy the videos and am always stoked to see a new one. They are always thoughtful, thought provoking, articulate and intelligently made. That makes them a bit rare, in the big scheme of things. I appreciate your work, and thanks.
i dont have fucken money jojo
Hey Big Joel, could you do a video on Le Bonheur to see what the point the film was.
Nobody seems to remember that the World Trade Center was bombed by terrorists in 1993. All of the sitcoms and cartoons talking about an attack on the Twin Towers weren't predictive. They were retrospective.
Right, and even if someone's not aware of the 1993 attack, hijacking and terrorism were in the public subconscious in other ways. Oklahoma City was fresh in people's memory, and plane hijackings were actually extremely common before the post-9/11 security increases. People forget this today, but from 1970 to 2000, you could expect to read about 3-4 major hijackings a year. DB Cooper inspired a lot of copycats for many years. Of course pop culture was reflecting hijackings. Unless 9/11 truthers want to argue that all those hundreds of hijackings were also faked as part of the programming, and honestly, I wouldn't put it past a conspiracy nut.
There's another point to be made that the World Trade Center was an iconic piece of the New York City skyline. If a movie is depicting damage to NYC for whatever reason, there is a good chance it would focus on damage to iconic parts of it. If for some reason the Golden Gate Bridge is attacked 20 years from now, people would be able to point back to the many dozens of media products out there which include that bridge being destroyed, because again it is an iconic part of San Francisco.
@@Adam-ni6ne And not just iconic, the Empire State building and Chrysler tower are also iconic, but the Twin Towers were located in lower manhattan right by the river. You set up a camera from across the river and get a nice wide shot of the space, and the Twin Towers are like, the #1 thing that sticks out the most from that angle. It's also pretty close to the view a tourist would get looking across from the Statue of Liberty. Just from a basic shot construction perspective, it makes sense to use the Twin Towers in the film because you can't get such a nice wide shot of the skyscrapers in the middle of the city.
Not to mention the plane that flew into the Empire State Building in World War II. It wasn't at all unprecedented to have an aircraft crash into a New York City skyscraper.
And the terrorists were financed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
It's so frustrating, because Shane Dawson is 33 years old, so of course he knows how badly he is distorting things. He is saying that we should have had no way of knowing an attack like that could come, but somehow we weren't surprised when he did. That narrative is so profoundly preposterous that anyone old enough to remember the attack cannot possibly entertain it. Because in reality, there was very good reason to expect another terrorist attack like this, yet we were still completely caught off guard when it did and were traumatized for years. And you don't have to be an American to know that, just older than Dawson's target audience.
I remember that one time when 9/11 happened and no one cared because the simpsons predicted it
Love your videos on Shane!!
lol we were all just recommending you in another comment thread
Tya sampsons
I can't believe the yellow people brainwashed me
Yeah that morning when I saw it unfold as I was getting ready for college I thought, Simpsons did it first.
The reason Big Joel is releasing this video now is predictive programming so that when he releases a 9/11 trutherism video, it will seem normal
🤣😳
ITS EXTREMELY HEAVY...*"THE VISION OF THE TOWERS"* 😵👉🏽ruclips.net/video/DXCPHdWi7_k/видео.html
Made me actually lol
I love how Shane will put out a video about conspiracy theories except they'll all just be stuff like the blue and black/gold and white dress but then at the end there'll be a highly produced impassioned argument for flat eartherism
Because they were not serious videos. He was laughing and making jokes about the theories while presenting them.
@@abubaytnighan6480 ok but you realize his base is children, and children are dumb and take things literally
I love to see Big Joel’s evil twin supporting his brother 🌺🌸
@@abubaytnighan6480 his brother is a genuine flat earther and in his newest video he straight up just interviewed a literal flat earther
@@forward4703
There's always people dumb enough to believe.
In fact, I wonder if the the "I'm just joking" thing filters out smarter people, so the dumber and more easily brainwashed ones stick around.
You can sell those sorts of people merch a lot more readily, I think?
...Al ex Jones sells his B.S. with deadpan seriousness, and sells a lot of supplements that you could get better deals on.
Shane Dawson’s dangerous conspiracy theory videos need to be discussed. How he repackaged Alex Jones level conspiracy theories for a new audience.
The rise and normalization of believing in far fetched conspiracy theories that's happened over the last ten years is fucking awful. Makes sense how we ended up with all these qanon dipshits and anti-vax becoming so mainstream.
Info Wars for tweens lmao. Good point
EXACTLY!!
Pinely has covered a ton of Shane’s conspiracy videos!
@@jasminef4821 I was about to recommend Pinely too
i hate how much i ate up his terrible conspiracy theories as a kid, his tone and character was so sincere and trustworthy to me as a kid.
same it's honestly so embarrassing lmao
I am just learning who Shane Dawson is, but I was a truther in the late 2000’s/early 2010s. I think those of us that bought into it could potentially have come out cleaner on the other end. Personally I am much more skeptical of unsubstantiated claims nowadays and have better media literacy, And I think I’m more keen on detecting pseudoscientific bullshit because of my previous conspiracy theory beliefs. More importantly, I’m always ready to consider the fact that I might be completely wrong about something.
You watched Shane as a kid?
It's OK, we all do stupid stuff when we're young.
What do you mean by as a kid?
As a kid I was " just be quite! The towers are falling! " Then stood half dressed for school watching them fall. These conspiracies were out the gate day 2. So again how old were you at the time?
@@JustinMoralesTheComposer once we find out one theory was a true conspiracy then we HAVE to open up to all the others.
I never would have believed that the US government purposely infected people with syphilis, BUT they did and have come out admitting to it. So did a plane really crash into the Pentagon or was that a missile, it left a hole without wings
it did always bother me how every time Shane got cancelled no one brought up the part where he talks about, legitimizes, and promotes conspiracy theories that he (sometimes literally) got from Alex Jones, to his 14 year old fans, as if they’re not all going to follow the crumb trail back to the alt-right circles that invented them
Funnily enough it was 9/11 conspiracies that pulled me out of the alt-right, since a lot of them focus on Cheney and the Bush administration. Truther videos would tend to point out a lot of shady shit the administration did in general, which made me reconsider what I thought I knew.
dear lord. not only we have to worry about "parasocial grooming" and the normalization of blackface and the jokes inspired by minstrel shows he promoted, but we also now have to worry about him accidentally converting some people into fascism. great. just, spectacular
I think it’s because it’s much more complex and if someone doesn’t pay attention properly they’ll see it as not a big deal because people often struggle with any kind of political discussion that can’t fit into a single snappy tweet. The deeply bigoted and right wing roots of most conspiracy theories aren’t as easy to explain as “blackface is racist, joking about csa is gross” and requires a context that the cancelling crowd was unlikely to dwell on. It is messed up, but that’s what I think happened lmao, it doesn’t come across as clear cut and the more stuff in a comprehensive call out people can try and brush off the more likely they are to ignore the whole thing
It's particularly disgusting considering that most of his fans probably weren't even alive when 9/11 happened, or were too young to remember it (as was my case when I used to watch his videos 🤢). Having not experienced it made it even easier to find his conspiracies plausible. Luckily I had enough critical thinking at the time not to take his conspiracies TOO seriously, but I remember thinking at the time that the bomb one kinda made sense.
Glad I wasn't radicalized and didn't fall down any weird rabbit holes; had I been just a year or two younger, I definitely could have been.
Honestly, and I mean this in the most kind way possible with no disrespect, there are plenty of 9/11 truthers on the left - that skepticism began during the Bush administration, I remember, I was there. It was very well documented as a very left position, and often still is. It’s counterproductive to not understand that completely misguided movement for what it was, and still is. Many anti-war people on the left did perpetuate and still perpetuate it.
I truly think it’s counterproductive to say every 9/11 truther is alt-right, in the same category as other alt-right positions - I don’t think it’s the same - plenty of people who are pretty hard left are at the very least, still skeptical of what happened on 9/11, Bush, Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and many other aspects. If we are going to correct these misconceptions, we need to understand where they start, and that it’s rarely as simple as being alt-right.
I cannot express how much I *hate* hate-peddlers or conspiracy-peddlers - EVEN MORE when they do that talking-to-children-tone. You can tell *right away* when they are intending to communicate their message to children.
the way he's like murmuring into the mic like he's trying to soothe a spooked horse skeeves me right out
My stepsister believed this shit when she was 10 specifically because she watched Shane Dawson, we were all disgusted by him
@don't be surprised why post links without saying what the link is for? I don't wanna click a random link lol
@@dudeman5303 they are a spambot made by a sad and uninteresting person. Report and move on, they won't respond and even if they wanted to, they'd have no satisfying answer.
I honestly think that's reaching. Shane sounds like he's talking quietly and deliberately, not like he's trying to talk to children.
i cannot for the life of me listen to this one. the calm way shane explains his "theories" is almost more sinister than what he's saying.
It's this almost ASMR voice, really makes it sound believe/plausible. Some of the leaders in the religion I grew up in use the same tactic when telling their spiritual stories to get people to belive in them. Very unsettling, very manipulative :/
@@ponykazy3725 which religion if you don't mind answering?
@@CarlsCozyCorner could literally be any of them lol, all religions do shit like this to some extent
@@CarlsCozyCorner the LDS or mormon church. Not the worst religon to grow up in, but it a great example of "a modern everyday cult," and how a normal organization can be manipulative and harmful.
@@CarlsCozyCorner if you want to see an example look up "general conference Steady in the Storm" you get hit with manipulation very easily. I commented the link, but I think the link marked it as spam? But yeah, that's if you want to see it in action in a religous context.
On 9/11, my parents took my 10 month old ass to Chili’s. I’ve never been to chili’s since, and I will continue to avoid it so I can always brag that I haven’t been to Chili’s since 9/11.
thanks for preventing any further incidents
not even once? this is why the terrorists won.
@@Fopenplop Fr I hate that Al Qaeda cucked me out of enjoying Chili’s
We live in fear of the day Goober returns to chili’s
So then you have never, in any real sense, been to Chili’s? You’ve never experienced Chili’s? Wow.
Shane popularizing conspiracies used to enrage me a bit. He pushed droves of fans to harass that sandy hook father who was seen laughing before he took the podium. As if any of us know how we'd behave after what he went through. Nothing Shane ever did really makes me madder than that situation. He and Alex Jones share nearly equal blame on some of that shit
Oh my god. I consider myself a pretty well versed Shane Dawson hater but I had no idea he touched sandy hook. Disgusting.
@@camille1324 he talked about it on the H3 podcast and I was interested and looked up the video he was referencing and then became disgusted when I realized it was just a distraught father being ridiculed by an online mob who thought he was evil and a paid actor. Ethan was trying to change the subject pretty hard
Laughing like that is actually a pretty common reaction to stress, the chemicals in your brain become to much to bear so you either have to physically remove them through tears, or force another one to take its place so you don't literally fucking die due to chemical imbalances. Testosterone physically makes it harder for your body to produce tears, which is why a lot of men use humor and anger as a coping mechanism for sadness, yes, inpart because of societies expectations that men can't show those emotions, but also because Testosterone inhibits the ability to produce tears and so crying is literally physically harder to do if you've been through male puberty. I know all of this because when my leg popped out of socket a few years ago I didn't cry, I started hysterically laughing like a deranged maniac, and only then after 20 minutes of that did the tears start to form and flow. It was so painful and so sudden my body couldn't cope with the influx of pain and stress and so forced me to laugh, it was not a happy laugh, it was an extremely nervous and pained laugh. Im sure that same thing happened to the father, he was overwhelmed with emotional pain and standing in front of that podium made it all come swooping back very quickly, so instead of crying(because like mentioned earlier, it would be physically hard for him to cry especailly so suddenly) he started laughing, once his neurotransmitters balanced out he would've stealed his face for the cameras and made the speech. Im sorry if this is overwhelming information and patronizing, but I am trying to explain how extremely reasonable and normal it is for a grown man to not cry over a child's death, even if they are feeling the most intense sadness they have ever felt, instead of shaming a man for not having a typical reaction, we could simply learn basic neurochemistry and how the body reacts to sadness and understand what he is going through, which I'm sure was a horrid and overwhelming feeling of guilt. Crying doesn't automatically mean you're sad, either, tears come when you have too much of one chemical, you can have angry tears, happy tears, bored tears, etc. It all depends on the level of chemicals in your brain and how easily you are able to produce tears. Some men have never cried a day in their life, some cry with great frequency, it all depends on nuerochemistry.
I know why he was laughing. He knew he was going to be rich
@@patrikpass2962 I'm not sure any amount of money would offset the nightmares of recalling how your tiny child was murdered in a mass shooting. But money is good to have I guess
It's funny how much evidence for various conspiracy theories is essentially "a thing doesn't look like how I thought it would!"
It the height of arrogance to look at something you don’t understand and think “everyone else must be wrong” instead of “there is something I need to learn.” It’s the antithesis of rationality.
The thing with the plane hitting the building:
1) it didn't slow down b/c the hijacker maxed acceleration.
2) a plane is not made like a car or bus, and it's going 300 mph. That means, if it hits something like a building, it basically disassembles and all the parts continue through the spaces in the building at 300 mph.
...This is why I recall recovery teams finding passenger bone fragments and airplane fragments on the roofs of buildings surrounding the WTC site. Nobody checked for a while, a year, IIRC, and then someone went up to inspect one of the roofs...
And it was the obvious bone fragments, probably then bleached, that cued them in to check other roofs.
Yep.
So, yes, that means upon impact, the passengers got turned into meat and bone fragments traveling through a building at 300mph.
Some remnants of this, fuselage fragments, and mechanical parts fragments, flew onto the tops of other buildings nearby.
...I imagine the jet engine blade fragments did go everywhere on the floors the plane hit, tho.
or them not understanding basic things and refusing to admit it.
ITS EXTREMELY HEAVY...*"THE VISION OF THE TOWERS"* 😵👉🏽ruclips.net/video/DXCPHdWi7_k/видео.html
11 year old me was eating those 9/11 conspiracy theories up like they were candy. Like he showed that plane “passing through the building” and I was very much tricked.
Remember when everyone believed in the illuminati stuff? Interesting times.
Unfortunately....same
@@arisenpawn425 I, for one, welcome our reptilian overlords.
"The play crashes in the building without breaking it or exploding."
*Building proceeds to break and explode*
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure it "cut through like butter" because of how fast the plane is going. Big metal steal bars vs a literal plane at full speed... what do you expect the plane to stop half way? The bars to resist an entire plane? Or for the entire building to crumble and fall apart- as if people didn't design it with accidents in mind? Lmao it's ridiculous!
Course it's very manipulative, it's really sad to see kids eat this up :/
I feel like the last five years have really woken many people up to the fact that the internet has much more of a harmful influence on us than we were once willing to admit. Same goes for "conspiracy content". I get the impression that Shane has never understood the negative impact of his content or just never cared to think enough about it. I'm just glad more people are holding better standards of accountability to influential people like Shane.
I absolutely agree. I think the generation with ages ranging from about 22-28 (give or take) were traumatized by what we were exposed to online. Too much violence, too much sex, too much manipulation and predatory behavior. Now, in the past few years, we are actually being confronted with the content that we USED to enjoy and realizing how horrible it was. I think that’s why a lot of people, not at or even most, our ages are extremely concerned about TikTok and children being on it.
ITS EXTREMELY HEAVY...*"THE VISION OF THE TOWERS"* 😵👉🏽ruclips.net/video/DXCPHdWi7_k/видео.html
Your point about cancel culture being about "unmasking" the "truth" actually makes me think of why people are attracted to conspiracy theories like 9/11 Trutherism. It's about "unmasking the truth", being one of the special people who Knows The Secret But Real Truth that the sheeple (or fans of a creator) refuse to acknowledge.
To further that parallel, the same people who assert without evidence that the government is secretly doing unspeakably evils things will rarely just talk about killings by the police or illegal wars. Because those are out in the open, so in their mind, what’s the point of talking about them?
ruclips.net/video/7ZiMG84hws0/видео.html
@@greenskydiver427
It's the rethoric and presentation that's the problem. Is doesn't have to be the truth as long as the spectacle is convincing.
well yeah because Q knows best... its why old people get into it it gives them almost a purpose to see the great FALL OF CIVILIZATION!!
I think the proof of that is how in an uproar people will get about conspiracies while comparable real incidents will just sneak on by. A guy walked into a pizzeria with a gun because of an alleged secret child trafficking operation, but how often are armed maniacs walking into Mondelez Inc or Hershey's for their known profiting off child slavery? There's a lot of talk about the shadow government and a mysterious unseen ruler of public policy, but there's the very open system of party whips assuring that elected officials will put their funders wishes over their constituents. I could go on, but you get the idea.
The need for a cancelling to be some sort of contradiction or reveal would also lead to that phenomenon Sarah Z made a video about, where progressive shows are held to standards no one holds "apolitical" media to
Which video was that?
What is apolitical?
@@nickchambers3935 ruclips.net/video/__ctRfI7cuM/видео.html
@@firbhamming2575 well, it means "something which isn't political" but there is a reason I put it in quotation marks. Enforced apoliticism, is, of course, just enforced status quo. And in many cases the difference between media being called "progressive" or "apolitical" is just the presence of diverse characters
@@fanta3853 that's what I mean, there is no such thing
never forget when shane brought on his unironic, fully believing, flat earther brother as one of the "sources" for this conspiracy series
If somebody is truly an empath I shouldn't hear them talk about it every other second
it's impossible to pretend like it's not entertainment when the resulting hashtags are some variation of #shanedawsonisoverparty
We have kind of a problem with punishment seeking over righting any actual wrongs, there's a twisted celebration in tearing someone down, even when they deserve it
Woah didn’t expect to see net shaq here
nice to see you here, and under disc golf videos lol
@@MrNargleflex The appropriate response to a bad actor getting deplatformed is relief, not glee.
I've always thought that type of hashtag was dumb and silly
Big Joel: "this is gonna be a bit rambly"
Also Big Joel: *makes a freakishly coherent and compelling argument*
ITS EXTREMELY HEAVY...*"THE VISION OF THE TOWERS"* 😵👉🏽ruclips.net/video/DXCPHdWi7_k/видео.html
In 12 minutes
Not really
Freakishly coherent is actually the perfect way to describe him
Shit, this is far more coherent and compelling than his scripted stuff, even!
The major flaw in conspiracies is that they require governments to be *far* more competent than they are.
ikr have these people ever seen the goverment.
Yes they're so incompetent that they manage to kill millions all over the world without any consequences.
And cooperate with each other to keep said conspiracy a secret. Take the moon landing as an example: If it had been faked, the Soviets would have leapt at the chance to discredit the US.
Because it's not like the government is incompetent on purpose to skim as much tax dollars as posssible from the people. If you've seen the video of tower 7 falling and still believe the government you're just a sheep.
@@dagfinissocool 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.'
S D: "It passed through the building like a ghost"
Me: "Uh... Dude... There's pretty clearly a huge gash where the plane went in..."
I think there's also a major element of "child perspective" that makes conspiracy theories extremely attractive (and lucrative) content for children.
Effectively, until you're out of highschool, most kids understand that someone has power over them. Whether that's parents, principals, teachers, etc. And that even if they don't believe they *should* have power, or don't know *why* they have power, they're still nonetheless subject to it. And so, to a child, it's honestly not that far fetched to propose a similar authority for adults, or the wealthy, or even politicians. You may never interact with a principal, hell you may never see them, but you still know you function within the rules and plans they set. So if a conspiracy is presented in this framework, it's incredibly easy to swallow. "I don't yet understand the power structures I live within, and I'm a teen drawn to media that makes me feel special. Oh, here's a RUclipsr who's 'trying to explain what REALLY happens' and who "respects" me and reassures me that yes, I am already unique. After all I follow him."
Most modern propaganda engines focus on teenagers. Look at the amount of right-wing rhetoric that is *crucial* to meme culture. The chad meme having blue eyes and blonde hair compared to wojack edits of other people, often women of color. The prevalence of ableism and covert racism in even mainstream memes. The vicious and long term mocking and "memeification" of random photos of people. It is insanely easy for a teenager who falls into the wrong online community to be passively radicalized, because at it's core right wing radicalization pits the ingroup vs the outgroup, and with that belief comes comfort and assurance. This ingroup-outgroup dynamic is, again, insanely easy to digest as a child. It's not a huge step to go from "jocks" and "goths" to "SJWs" and "soyboys." And once a kid is in this realm, conspiracies become *incredibly* lucrative. Reeducation is important in any radicalization, and the right-leaning reeducation of "Ignore everything except what theorists and nazis tell you" means that there's a huge audience seeking to engage with your content, no matter how bad it is, because they've already convinced themselves that it must be true. So you're guaranteed views and support.
That was a bit of a ramble, huh.
yeah that’s a really accurate analysis
It was a ramble. But a very articulate one.
ITS EXTREMELY HEAVY...*"THE VISION OF THE TOWERS"* 😵👉🏽ruclips.net/video/DXCPHdWi7_k/видео.html
I have a (kind of ex-)friend of mine who is very into meme culture and 'edgy' jokes/dark humour (not the obviously bigoted kind at least to my knowledge, though) and your paragraph on how the alt-right utilize memes for radicalization instantly reminded me of them. We had an argument recently about whether it was harmful to engage with memes about bigoted online figures-- which they had done, and I was upset at-- and I so wish I could've remembered this point to explain why it actually can do real world harm. Perhaps that would've won the argument and saved our friendship which is now essentially hanging on a thread. I just have to hope they don't get actually radicalized by memes hijacked by the alt-right.
holy shit I think you hit the nail on the head, well-said!
Whether or not jet fuel can melt steel depends on the composition of the fuel, the composition of the steel, and the ambient temperature, pressure, and humidity - plus steel doesn't need to melt for its structural integrity to be compromised, especially as it's being sheared by several tons of aluminum at the speed of sound.
@don't be surprised ...relevance?
@@notoriouswhitemoth Spam
You think aluminum can cut steel? 😂☠️😂
@@xp8969 try throwing an aluminium ball at a sheet of metal at the speed of sound
@@xp8969 I know momentum and inertia exist. I didn't say cut, I said shear. As in shear stress. As in force applied perpendicular to the surface it's applied to.
This is something I’ve always hated as an original Shane dawson hater. His documentaries were always ways to shill for the people that he was making documentaries about. He would make some vague gesture about things that he did in the past, but always just ends up trying to wipe the slate clean about whoever he is making a documentary about.
omg a fellow shane dawson hater . i’ve hated him since 2012
I wasn’t familiar with the extent of his awfulness until later on, but I remember him making “conspiracy theory” videos looking for “evidence” to out Dan and Phil with when they were closeted (probably when I first heard about him). He even hired psychics to discuss their sexualities at one point. Then accused Dan and Phil of queerbaiting. It had been a talking point in the phandom (the Dan and Phil fandom, which I was a part of) at the time, and Dan and Phil kept indirectly trying to tell people during their livestreams not to watch creators using their names/faces for clicks like that. It’s kind of hard to imagine how he rebranded himself to have a bunch of people thinking he was some innocent wholesome guy who loved supporting fellow RUclipsrs. Especially when the RUclipsrs he chose to support always seemed to be such awful, disliked people.
I remember when I saw him for the first time as a 12 year old on youtube and thought: Ew
Just ew.
I do have a more well rounded opinion now, but frankly, ew stays a good way to explain how I feel about him.
no hate but it tickled me so much to see the phrase "original shane dawson hater" 😂
@Isabella B RWJ is underrated tbh.
I honestly believe that Shane Dawson’s more palatable conspiracism is one of the big factors that led to groups like Qanon being as big as they are. Like Shane started it, then more people hopped on the conspiracy train, but people always went back to Shane. You tune in and he’s there saying “flat earth is kinda true!“ it wasn’t just a dissection of a conspiracy theory, it was someone talking to you like it was true, like it was right, someone was there agreeing with you. Look at what happened when he talked about the pizza at Chuck E. Cheese’s. He’s talked about pizzagate, he’s talked about elsagate, he’s done them all at this point. Like I was in highschool when the conspiracy stuff started. We had a teacher that had us do knockoff Ted talks on whatever topic we wanted. One of the kids absolutely did one on how 9/11 was an inside job and was faked. He mentioned Shane a lot, and how his video was a big inspiration to his project and cited him a lot.
literally his videos almost made me go down the alt right pipeline completely
He probably helped with Qanon some but a lot of the conspiracy theories in that are just Anti-Semitic, Satanic Panic, Occult Worship, and Illuminati junk, all of which have been around for decades, this is just the latest combination of them.
Also do that many middle aged people (which seem to make up most of Qanon) watch Shane Dawson? it seemed more like Facebook and Alex Jones brainwashed most of them into Qanon.
Also as for Elsagate. Idk, I do think some of that stuff might be intended to be grooming. Why does so much of it depict sexual situations and pregnancy, toddlers and pre-schoolers shouldn't really know what any of that is yet so I don't see as to why it would only be in there for clickbait. That said, I'd say it just stops at a handful of creeps making it, I've literally seen some people say Disney was making those themselves to brainwash kids (this is years before homophobes attacked them over supporting the Don't Say Gay Bill too) so yeah, some Qanon junk still gets wrapped in with that.
Nah conspiracies were big way before shane. He popularized it for a newer generation and demographic kinda
@@sephiroth7655 yeah that's, kinda what i said.
@@temerianlillies u said Shane started it lol
looking at shane's face is emotionally taxing
love the video tho! keep up the good work!
As someone who lost a neighbor in the plane that hit a pentagon and her husband to suicide a few years later, thank you for making this response video
Do you believe that 911 was as we were told?
@@thebibleonline7419 of course I don’t believe anything happened as we were told. No story has ever been told that wasn’t edited by someone, and even when not trying to hide anything people simply get things right. But my neighbor actually died. Her family’s life was forever altered. People saying a missile hit the pentagon because they can’t deal with the fact that 19 men with box cutters were able to kill 3,000 people can sincerely take a long walk off a short cliff
I think I've lost my ability to listen to conspiracy theorists spout utter bullshit without becoming angry to a degree that doesn't seem helpful or healthy.
It's a false consciousness, people waste all of their time constructing these elaborate fantasies that are utterly useless and meaningless. We can't organize against the power structures that actually affect our lives if half of the population is out chasing ghosts up their own ass
What, do you think Epstein commited suicide? Some conspiracies really are true.
I feel the exact same way
I may be totally misremembering, but I think there's something early in Foucault's History of Sexuality that describes a type of power derived from revealing secrets. I think that dynamic is pretty clearly in play in these situations, whether or not you agree with the ultimate cause.
I can see the connection, but doesnt Foucault talk about people gaining power through others' voluntary confessions, not through digging up info form themselves?
@@caseyw1288 yeah, it's about the confession and confessor
@@woodsbabe2505 But the person doing the cancelling isn't confessing- they're revealing someone else's secrets. This puts both them and the recipient of knowlegde in a position of power, whereas the confessor/confessee dynamic creates a power dynamic. You could argue the person being cancelled is the confessor, but they're not really involved.
i’ve always considered conspiracies on extremely traumatizing events very distasteful. especially when someone is projecting them to young kids who won’t know better. it just feels morally disgusting to me to theorize about an event that costed so many people their lives.
Not just theorizing about the event, but monetizing it as well.
The 9/11 predictive programming never made any sense to me. Wouldn't the government want everybody to be more horrified when that happened? People would be even easier to control then. Also blowing up landmarks is kind of a trope in disaster movies, remember the White House blowing up in Independence Day? How many times has the Eiffel Tower been blown up in films? These still exist and started getting destroyed in things again not too long after 9/11.
As for old ads with planes flying by them, for a lot of US centric ads, the buildings represented power and were massive so depicting planes flying by them made sense, we don't see ads like that now with other buildings because of 9/11 obviously.
I do have to admit some pre-9/11 media that depicts planes hitting or almost hitting the towers is weird but it makes sense that would occasionally be depicted as the buildings were massive.
And as for references to them getting destroyed in terrorism like in Deus Ex, the buildings were already attacked in 1993 so they were a known target after that.
It's like how the Illuminati/Freemasons supposedly hide rather obvious easter eggs everywhere. If anything leaving symbols everywhere alerts more people to this supposed shadow government, it makes no sense.
Also, I used to draw Illuminati graffiti in high school as a joke despite not believing in it, if I made a movie I'd also try to do the same thing by leaving an Easter egg about it. Honestly I'd say it's probably just become a running joke to a lot of creators.
The "Illuminati" symbolism was obviously inserted into many music videos (look at Kesha's "Die Young" or LCD Soundsystem's "Pow Pow") as a joke and a means to get extra clicks and publicity from conspiracy theories.
You're completely right, it doesn't make sense. I think a lot of conspiracy theorists settle on a conclusion first and then work backwards to fit reality into it. I think it's a way to find comfort by simplifying the horrific chaos of the world, because even though it would be awful if 9/11 was an inside job or if covid-19 was manufactured to control people, at least someone is in charge and at least there is a clear enemy. It's like drawing the picture first and then making a whole bunch of dots on the lines to make it seem like it was all connected and it was all supposed to be like this.
yeah, it's a terrible argument. shane basically said "9/11 was planned by the US government and I can prove that bcs american entertainment workers who COULD work for the government were talking about terrorism before 9/11". like, that's because terrorism was already a thing, shane
These people think they are living in the movie "National History" and they are looking for clues. That the villainous illuminati is leaving breadcrumbs for the true believers to see... for some reason.
Tbh if I had a music career, I'd purposefully leave illuminati Easter eggs in music videos and stuff. Seems like a great way to get people to talk about you 🤷🏼♀️
And if the illuminati was real and as powerful as these conspiracy theorists claim it is, no one would know they exist. And they certainly wouldn't let someone like Shane Dawson with millions of fans openly talk about them.
I've never thought about how cancel culture as not a form of justice but a form of illustrating hypocrisy. This video really opened my eyes. Thank you
Listening to Shane Dawson try his hardest to put on a ‘creepy’ voice while talking about a tragedy almost sent me into a cringe coma
this is the downside of having what they like to call "infliencers". These people not only have little expertise, they are many times down right clueless and the things they talk about. they read nonsense online, don't fact check anything, and spout it back to an audience that believes it. it's ridiculous.
Saying that people like Shane Dawson are clueless and don't fact-check anything gives them a degree of credit that they simply don't deserve. It's not that they don't fact-check. It's that they don't care about the facts. They're not idiots preaching to idiots. They're amoral conmans preaching to idiots.
EDIT: Well, alright, that's a little too harsh on Shane Dawson's audience in particular, which literally consists of kids for the most part. I still stand by my main point, though.
@@scr9069 I'm talking mostly about "influencers" in general with audiences of all ages. Joe Rogan is one in particular who has caused millions of blind followers to believe outright lies and misinformation time and time again. I think he cares but is politically biased and accepts all information that comes from the right.
I half agree with sc r. I think it's deliberate. shane dawson promoted alt right conspiracies for the same reason he did blackface and heavily sexualised children and animals on his channel - for shock value. for what I've seen, that's his brand
This is basically the attitude of every conspiracy theorist or person who pushes radical, often unscientific talking points. It’s basically, “I’m no expert, but what about this thing that I have no expertise or understanding of.” It’s often disingenuously frames
as just asking questions, but the goal is really to get people to uncritically think about whatever bs they’re pushing. If they actually cared about the truth then they’d do some actual research or, at the very least, just shut up about things they don’t understand.
As someone who watched the towers fall as a young adult ...
a) Jokes about the towers getting bombed were somewhat common at the time. It wasn't just in kids' cartoons; it was in games and media for adults too. We weren't primed for it to be accepted. Especially ially after security increased after the '93 bombing and the 1996 Oklahoma City attack, it was an "it'll never happen" scenario so it seemed like a sufficiently safe joke. When it was suddenly a reality, we were devastated that the unthinkable happened.
and
b) The idea of some kind of predictive programming to accept the 9-11-2001 attack absolves the US as a country and society for our horrific, fascistic and xenophobic response to that trauma. We still have not collectively faced the event, only continually acted out making foreigners targets, openly promoting and defending torture, stripping constitutional protections from surveillance at the same time surveillance technology was rapidly advancing, and treating anyone who questioned these fundamental shifts a traitor. The fascistic right wing has crooned "we'll keep you safe" seretly and our center-right party has said "we'll keep you safe by only using legal torture." I legitimately don't know if the far right would have taken off to the same extent if the attacks had not happened; our chief uniting value as a nation fundamentally shifted overnight from liberty* to naked authoritarianism.
* Yes, yes, loads of caveats around liberty for whom - but at the time that list was expanding rather than under active, relentless attack.
I feel most 9/11 conspiracies just goes to show how poorly the general population understands physics. Like, the concept of solids losing strength at high temperature should be pretty obvious to anyone who’s eaten an ice cream at some point in their lives.
This is really good, I like this.
I'm always saying we need to recognize how neoliberalism uses our social interactions to replicate market dynamics, and getting caught up in the team dynamics of "cancel culture good" vs "cancel culture bad" is a huge reduction of a complicated issue. It's the creation of an aesthetic that is marketable. It's a brand, and a fandom for people to get in on. You can be a fan of "canceling" people in the same way that you could be a fan of a celebrity, and that's really weird and kinda messed up.
It's another capitalist recuperation of a popular movement into a form that can be profited from.
Anyways love your stuff bye
9/11 Trutherism is one of the more annoying conspiracy theories to me, personally, because my dad was working in NYC at the moment the towers were hit, in a skyscraper only a few blocks away. All conspiracy theories are harmful, but this one just gets my goat at how self-centered it is.
Self-centered? People thought it looked like a demolition before the rubble from the first tower even hit the ground.
@@firstlast2636 Yeah because as it turns out when you knock down a very tall building, it will tend to look the same as any other very tall building that was demolished. I say self-centered because the people making these crackpot theories up only care about getting views and attention, and they don't care about the knock-on effects of what they're saying. There were memorials in all the NY/NJ towns I've lived in with giant steel beams from the towers.
And even if it was a planned demolition, why would they do it with PEOPLE INSIDE??? If you already believe that 9/11 was faked or done by the US government, there's no way I'm getting through to you. (Though there is a case to be made that we sowed the seeds when we gave the Taliban weapons and then fucked off after using them to fight Russia, but that's not the same thing as a hit carried out BY the US government.)
@@firstlast2636 oh my god you’re one of the conspiracy nut jobs. Seek professional help.
@@tonisassano8409 I appreciate anything that questions the credibility of the western establishment. There are too many gullible people who think big government is the solution to everything. I think that both conspiracy theorists and debunkers are using a giant logical fallacy - the claim that there exist "experts" in the physics of building collapse. There are no such experts - there is not enough data to become an expert on such a thing. There are experts in building skyscrapers, but no experts in the physics of collapsing skyscrapers. Also, if the government wanted to stop the truthers, they could have by putting together an investigation that addresses the concerns of the populace rather than the concerns of academia. It is a fact that truthers have presented well-researched arguments and interesting questions, whether or not it was a demolition.
@@firstlast2636 There is an entire field dedicated to demolition, you can major in it and in fact need a construction license before taking down any sort of building. In order to collapse a skyscraper legally, one would need a team of qualified individuals. While I do think it is important to question authority, that only works if you have the critical thinking skills to accept when authority is actually correct. As someone in grad school, eventually you accept that everyone knows more than you about *something*, and that's why you listen to multiple experts in their fields.
I do not think that anything could have stopped "truthers" from appearing, because people who are conspiratorially minded are invested in maintaining their own beliefs, and often extremely distrustful of the government. If any kind of investigation were done, these people would have twisted the results to fit their agenda. And, you know, there were investigations that happened after the 9/11 attacks, which resulted in a 20-year-long war that cost taxpayers billions of dollars in military spending. Do you think the populace wanted that? I certainly didn't.
Interesting points. I think the obsession with identifying hypocrisy rather than immorality has some fairly obvious roots and goals - it's a lot cleaner and easier to say why someone's behaviour is inconsistent with their words, than it is to say why either the words or the behaviour are immoral. You can avoid making value judgments or even value statements if you can find evidence of hypocrisy - because most people who believe anything believe that honesty is a virtue in itself. This leads to the absurd situation where people who are openly and unabashedly immoral all the time don't get "cancelled" because there's no big story there - they're exactly what they appear to be and presumably their fanbase doesn't mind.
Shanes voice sounds like he's trying to seduce someone, like he's all whispers in the ear and tender kisses and caresses as he's trying to get you horned up by waxing poetic about 9/11 conspiracies, maybe he just has a weird kink.
"It cuts through the building like a knife through butter."
Sir, I must ask, have you seen a car drive through an american dry-wall wall? It looks similar. Just take that, make it faster, and you have a plane going through an office building.
"I don't believe all the 9/11 planes were CGI, just that there were definitely bombs planted before hand."
This is him trying to temper his position. 😂
I'm old enough to bear the unfortunate claim of knowing of Shane Dawson pretty much since he started, from an adult's perspective. I'll admit he had a lot of appeal for young people who didn't feel like they fit in, so I guess that's his true appeal: an effigy for vulnerable narcissism. People who didn't get to be "cool" can watch as this obnoxious "weirdo" bulldoze his way through pop culture, like a bull in an Apple store. They get to see him put on "cool kid drag", and live as one of them, even though they claim that's something they don't like, and disparage those who do. I get it. However, when he starts negatively impacting the lives of real people in ways that are detrimental to our cultural zeitgeist, that's when he's gotta go.
the first point triggered me. i was an actual adult when it happened and it was batshit crazy. even with the 1993 bombing it still felt like a world changing event that you would have never thought could happen
When 9/11 happened I was 8 years old, and when my mom told me a plane flew into the buildings I couldn't understand. I thought she must have meant that it bounced off of them and fell down somewhere else. It's just mind-blowing and sad that Shane Dawson hasn't made it past 8-year-old logic.
"the plane is slicing into the building like it's made of butter"
No, that's just the really bad quality of the video and the camera not being able to capture a clear image of everything happening at such a far distance. Not to mention the sheer amount of force coming into contact with all of that glass probably caused some kind of visual illusion maybe idk. It can easily be explained.
Can you imagine a government agent going to various animation studios over the decades to be like
“ *Hey guys! so I’m going to need you to draw a plane crashing into the twin towers and sneak it into your cartoon for children.*
*It doesn’t even have to be exactly that, a flying object colliding with a tower adjacent structure will suffice.*
*No, you can’t ask why or tell anyone we had this conversation* 🙂”
And every single artist they approach is like “ *Sure* 🤷♂️” and this just never leaks even after 9/11
It’s a very underutilized argument against conspiracies. The fact that they rely on a shockingly widespread but simultaneously tightly-controlled secret that can never come to light. No whistle blowers, no leaks, no accidental evidence ever discovered. It’s easy to get pulled in to the fray by trying to debunk specific nonsense arguments instead of stepping back and demanding someone account for the structure of the conspiracy itself.
Whenever I see a 9/11 truther argument, I like to imagine a kindergartner arguing it to a teacher after having just thrown a ball at another (now crying) kindergartner's block tower. "B-But my wooden ball couldn't have knocked over their tower - wood can't shear plastic blocks!!!"
Apply to urban moving systems. Wait.
its so gross how i spent a while of my life waiting for and watching shane dawson videos. never back when he was outright awful but more back in 2017-18 when he was hidden awful and making the videos discussed here. hes such a joke, i dont know why i liked him so much back then. he shouldnt have treated conspiracy theories as fun things when theyre awful and many people genuinely believe in them, and im not even going to touch the heellicking that was every documentary of his honestly
(heel licking cause he was just trying to make people feel sorry for a bunch of rich babies)
I remember that the most criticism I heard about Shane before the big backlash was about his conspiracy theories etc (which might also be because I hang out in groups opposed to that stuff and who talk about it) but I remember that people would always shoot down the criticism with 'he is just presenting these ideas and letting you decide!'
Less than a minute in..
"This is all you get because I failed to do my job.."
That's the humility & priceless comedy that keeps me coming back. Bravo
Honestly, the Disney docu series truly made me believe it was real because I was CONVINCED there were bombs in the buildings. But then when you watch the series you realise the “bombs” are just engine fuel that went down the elevator shaft and lit on fire.
his 9/11 theories are so dangerous cause a lot of his audience wasn’t around/don’t remember before 9/11, so they didn’t know how popular the twin towers were or about the previous attacks. i’m the same and when i watched that conspiracy theory i was admittedly thinking “that’s weird how many cartoons had the twin towers get hit” and what’s worse is that shane is older, so he should’ve known this stuff! he should’ve known better than to spread such a dangerous conspiracy theory
"A little far fetched."
-Shane Dawson on 9/11 planes being CGI.
I have a friend who watches all of his content and believes these conspiracy theories... She's an adult. And it saddens me deeply because I know them to otherwise be a reasonable and intelligent person.
Once you start getting sucked into a given creator's personality and content, it becomes very easy to be manipulated into believing everything they say without question... You can't use logic and reason to snap someone out of a position they didn't use logic or reason to get themselves into
I'd love to see this topic explored more! I think it's an interesting one to talk about why "Cancel Culture" is deeply focused on personal failings rather than trying to look at the systemic problems that might have caused them.
So you're saying that ironically, their problem is kind of similar to the problem with Shane Dawson's exposé video on Jake Paul?
HIGHLY recommend Pinely's vids on Shane's conspiracy videos bc damn
the thing I never get about conspiracy theorists claiming that events are “foreshadowed” in pop culture is that… why would they warn people about what was going to happen? wouldn’t hinting it at draw suspicion?
You're mixing things up, the idea is to normalize the concept of "towers getting attacked by hijacked terror planes" into ppl's minds not "look we're controlling things" , the latter is a complex inferences made from a much larger body of evidence from the "bigger picture" pov if you will.
To sum up, they weren't warning anyone, they were planting a narrative which later became part of the official account.
It's very telling that the conspiracy videos that accuse events of being fake because they "look like CGi" only ever show footage of things that would be much, MUCH harder to animate than doing it the way one would expect it to look.
Like... watch ANY CGI movie from the Y2K era. The effects usually look like shit.
I get excited to see a new big Joel video to get ready to have my brain enlarged and I click the video and see
M I N I O N D A N C I N G
9/11 trutherism reminds me of when someone commits suicide, and everyone gets so blindsided that they start saying they were actually murdered, because there is no way the victim could have possibly killed themselves.
I feel like Americans that were alive for 9/11 are so traumatized that they're insisting the American government had to have done it because there was no way another nation could have possibly touched us.
i do like that the term "canceled" has fully completed its transformation from "i had a successful show and i lost it because of this or that controversy" to "anyone anywhere on earth is saying anything even slightly critical of me in any way"
it's been a while since i've watched one of your videos and i can totally understand why i missed them! you make such complex cultural analysis of trends that i would never even think of, it honestly sometimes feels like i'm in a college media studies class or something when i watch your vids. they just are super great and you do great work! thanks!
this is literally my favorite video of yours thus far!! hearing your rambly thoughts introducing these kind of half baked ideas is honestly so welcoming, interesting, and engaging. hope you do this more !!
i literally have a friend who lost someone in 9/11 and still heard him say that back when he uploaded and it was like "lol sure k." its so infuriating yet fascinating how wrapped around his finger some of us were
Oh my gosh, you kept the thumbnail. I love it
You’ve just answered a question I’ve had for a while about why people get so worked up about cancelling people who were once good rather than cancelling people whose brand is being problematic. On the Internet, being genuine is a currency and exposing any hypocrisy on the way you’ve presented yourself or been perceived is one of the biggest reasons to get cancelled.
9/11 is the whole reason why buildings made after **always** have two or more stairways, after the building reaches a certain height. Because the Twin Towers only had one, in the smack dab middle of the building.
Also the buildings fell due to the top part collapsing in on itself and buildings that tall have to be made out of flexible materials, so the building is able to handle wind. So like a whole ass plane flying at top speeds, with full fuel tanks....you get it. You can watch 'Well There's Your Problem's episode about 9/11 that talks about the engineering failures that happen and they don't do conspiracy.
Edit: Shane Dawson fucking sucks. Big Joel looks like some Greek philosopher's head bust 😳 but is cooler cause he's hip and now.
it's not even the discussion of these Conspiracy Theories for me
it's how they push it like they've figured out the truth that makes it terrible, like dude you can't just push an unsolved case like you've solved it.
It's very hard to get through this video. Not because of anything serious, but Shane's whispery tone is driving me up a fucking wall
always ready for more big joel content
I love this. I don’t find you ramble at all. Would enjoy seeing a lot more bonus videos on the channel.
This thumbnail is so funny. Great job, Joelseph!
strongest argument ever: "I mean, c'mon".
You know Joel is a deeply creative person when his opening thesis is a hotter take than "9/11 was an inside job"
I’ve been having a stressful week and just a lot of stuff going on. But then I saw there was a new Big Joel video and my entire mood shifted. I love your content and I just want you to know you make a big difference in the world for other people. Whether it’s because of your insightful takes that encourages people to think about things in a completely different way, or just because of how excited one fan of your content can be when seeing a new post after drowning in what seems like a constant torrent of self doubt and negativity in their life.
This was a really good video! I think stuff like the dysfunctional relationships between influencers and their child audience could be an interesting topic for a longer video btw
I always laugh at people who think the footage was CGI because I remember watching the events live on Al-Jazeera which my dad had through satellite TV. (None of the local channels showed it live here in Hungary.) So at that point you'd have to argue that the Americans and the Qatari were coordinating together. If that were true, the kingdom of Qatar would have some grade A blackmail material on the American state and that not leaking over the last 21 years is a way harder sell than the official story.
This has reminded me how much I miss D'Angelo's video essays
I'd love more of these extra little videos! Keep up the great work!
I enjoyed this, a nice change of pace and a bit of a mini time capsule of sorts! Thank you, Big Joel, and don't worry yourself too much. You make good stuff!
People lost their shit that day. I was homeschooled at the time and was home alone with mom. She woke me up screaming that we were at war before the second plane had even hit. When it did she expected the next thing to be nukes landing on our heads.
jesus that must have been terrifying! glad you're out, comrade.
Big Joel i love these small type of videos and sadly i cannot afford to support you bc i am but an 18 year old artist, please continue to release these
Great and important video, but also what is the name of that beautiful song in the beginning?
This was fun! Would love to see more of these
Like Shane Dawson, some takes aren’t up for debate
I'm so sad D'Angelo Wallace deleted the Shane Dawson videos, they're utterly fantastic breakdowns of Shane's bullshit, but D'Angelo no longer felt comfortable defending James Charles
BEEN WAITIN FOR THIS ONE FOR A WHILE!!
A lot of great nuggets of discussion in here. I hope you bring up more similar points in upcoming videos like you said you would. The insights here about cancel culture are incredibly interesting and I think important to make on a large scale.
honestly one of his "conspiracies" involved trying to out dan and phil YEARS before they were ready. those videos were so harmful in ways we are just starting to understand.
I agree with you fully at the end. thinking back now on his Jake Paul series, it has the same: "look at all the cool things money and fame can buy! Buy my product!" . To your point about the intersection of law and entertainment; I also feel weird about the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial being so public and live streamed and memed. Felt like watching a farce. Like cashing-in on a scandal. Idk I'm rambling haha
I’m glad you made this video more available. It really needed to be seen by more people
I am not even two seconds into the video and the sheer whiplash of the thumbnail to the opening shot has sent me into an emotional state i can note even begin to describe
I like how most 9/11 “truther” videos simply don’t know how… planes, buildings, bombs, or, well, anything pertaining to how 9/11 worked?
The focus on incongruance and hypocrisy does also mean that shamelessness tends to protect one from cancellation.
What is the song playing in the very beginning with the dancing Minions? I can't remember for the life of me
edit: nvm it's Reflections by Toshifumi Hinata
have LEGIT been waiting for this since you mentioned you made it im so excited. I find the shane dawson phenomena incredibly fascinating and i feel like this is an era not oft-touched upon