Yeah, that's exactly the kind of situation where "decent melee combatant" bites opponents relying on chaff that dive archer units like they're Winston in Overwatch... without the tankiness.
@@OffToBattle winton overwatch mentioned in a total war video lmfao i love you man. i feel a lot of total war content creators ignore low tier units so its nice seeing such thorough dives of all units.
@3:10-3:20 I noticed my archers doing this mid battle at key skirmishing moments. Fucks everything up and is extremely infuriating. Not sure if this is new but never happened to me before and now it’s happening almost every battle when I’m using shades or other fast moving infantry skirmish.
Well there's always been some issues out there, but you're the second person who noticed that part of the video "and" commented... you just try and work around the issues.
Something else worth mentioning: These boys use Fists of Gork *really well*. The buff to melee defense it provides is extremely significant, making them temporarily tougher and harder hitting than standard ork boyz in melee. I've seen them krump ork boar boyz in one on one fights with one casting of Fists of Gork and no assistance from other archers, and just imagine what they can do when backed up with the rest of your ranged boys! Naturally, I wouldn't be charging them into the enemy frontline just to take advantage of this, but when you can use a single casting of Fists of Gork to substitute keeping several squads of melee infantry back to protect your archer line, I'd say it's absolutely worth the investment of winds: Those boys will do more damage on the front than a foot of gork or brain bursta ever could.
That's definitely an interesting one. I haven't played non-Grimgor enough to have all the spell synergies by heart so I've learned something today, thanks!
@@OffToBattle Yeah, it mostly just comes down to Arrer Boys and Savage Arrer Boys main weakness being their low melee attack and defense: Fists of Gork solves both of these problems nicely. Really, though, any melee defense buff you can give them will pay off big time in the things they can fight one on one, it's just that greenskins lore books tend to lack strong defense buffs.
There is something to be said for having a unit that can dump it's munitions and then plow into melee in the latter portions of a fight where their enemies have been softened up by protracted combat. Also having 25% physical resistance makes trading with most archer units fairly viable (especially after you slap some armor on them).
Even without the tidbits of armor they're pretty viable at that. Plain Arrer Boyz would be if they weren't likely to be shot to pieces mid-charge first.
Yeah, but I feel you need to put the good and the bad in a video like this so people feel out how to work around the limitations. I like games where archers are extremely responsive, mind you.
I'm pretty sure that behaviour was introduced in 6.0 or atleast it became a lot more prevalent. I am hoping and reasonably confident CA is going to adress this "bug" soon.
@@olafthemoose9413 It feels new to me - it jumped out so much that I have to think I'd have gotten mad about it a lot more in the past. I'm not disagreeing with takyondg if they say it's been around for a bit, but this is just my recollection. It looks like every model in the unit is trying to go to the same spot _before_ attempting to turn and form up ranks again - almost like they're sand going through an hourglass. A pretty silly bug, if that's what they're doing.
Better than the vanilla arrer boy, in my experience. The speed and physical resistance gives them an identity besides "archer that you can afford to blunder", which makes that more an upside and side perm to a more robust archer that can take flank positions and win archer fights well.
@OffToBattle I don't blame you. The only real benefit to playing them is the early foot of Gork, Grom has actual faction mechanics. Grimgor is just stronger and buffs better units, and Skarsnik is more fun. Now that we can get shaman lords, Wurzag isn't all that unique anymore
As an old veteran of warhammer fantasy 6th through 8th edition, I will give a bit of background on how the units you highlight on this channel generally performed on tabletop and how much their video game usage and rules align with what they did on tabletop. Savage Ork Archers have the same issue any archer unit has: They use bows. Over the last three editions bows have consistenly been the worst missile weapon, because they lack what matters most: Punching power. Even stronger weapons like muskets don't see regular use, but they can at least do noticeable damage. Bows on the other hand rarely do. Yes, occasionally archers like the ones Wood Elves (especially in 6th and 7th) have do see play, but even though both are green, Savage Ork Archers aren't those Wood Elves. In addition a Hybrid unit is basically never better than having the abilities seperated out. You pay for a profile that wants to fight in close combat and a weapon that wants distance. But you aren't that good at either. If you want some plink, plink in Greenskins, you use Nightgoblins Archers with Fanatics and Savage Orks especially want to get in close and personal. In addition in tabletop their frenzy often forces them to charge. I.e. you sometimes don't even have a choice in using your ranged attacks. So while they are an accurate portrayel of the tabletop in parts, the whole actually isn't, simply because a Total War battle lasts as long as it lasts, while a tabletop game is done in six turns, often far earlier. Now would the upgrades, were they to exist in tabletop, make a difference? Actually, the significant increase in strength would be neet. A Strength 4 bow is a whole different animal than a Strength 3 one. If that were generally included, I wouldn't be surprised if we wouldn't have seen the occasional small unit of Savage Ork Archers protecting the artillery from all kinds of small skirmish units, both in melee and ranged.
This is an even better version of a hybrid ranged/melee unit than Orc Arrer Boyz. Their melee damage output is legit and allows them to actually flank enemy frontline under the right circumstances. Their campaign buffs are less extensive and more brutal than Orc Arrer Boyz. But that is to be expected given their "Savage Orc" status. I would actually leave their Calibration distance the way it is, to accentuate their "in your face" nature. Again, it's impressive how many ranged options Greenskins get, even though they are not considered a dominant ranged faction.
There's a lot of false advertising with the Greenskins like that. Until just now they only had two artillery units but both were quite useful... Skaven can say the same.
I don't understand how CA thinks 30 armor have the same value than 25 physical resistance. Ap is more common than magical attack, and armor go down with vigour.
They don't, they price Savage Orc Arrer Boyz higher for that reason (and restrict availability), aside from the speed issue. Now they have the "scrap economy" to balance things at the higher end too. I haven't pushed Greenskins campaigns far yet, but I'll see how far I can push the Arrer side of the coin. They have uses.
I might do that next, then. I've had to be restrained in my expectations from juggling some stuff and beating away winter pine allergies and stuff. (It's way better now than it was on the weekend, though.) I've used goblin wolf riders in previous game versions.
i hate those, alway need magic to be good at killing them easily, fortunately, wood elfs have that, exempted the sister of thorn, for spell casters, they lack magical ammunitions edit : HO SHIT ! they didn't had that before, how the fuck well we counter their physical resistance if they danpen the magic ? well, at least wild riders still work
@@OffToBattle probably to buff the demon, and other unit that have a lots of physical resist, weirdly enough, wood elf also get those with zoat, the zoat are quite good in a forest spirit army
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I still remember diving these guys with fell bats in TWW1 and coming back after microing a different part of the battle to find my bats wiped out
Yeah, that's exactly the kind of situation where "decent melee combatant" bites opponents relying on chaff that dive archer units like they're Winston in Overwatch... without the tankiness.
@@OffToBattle winton overwatch mentioned in a total war video lmfao i love you man. i feel a lot of total war content creators ignore low tier units so its nice seeing such thorough dives of all units.
Any other type of bow unit you think "ah-ha, light work for my hounds!" With Savage Ork Arrers, you think "a few arrows won't be too bad"
I'm only laughing because I know it's true...
@3:10-3:20 I noticed my archers doing this mid battle at key skirmishing moments. Fucks everything up and is extremely infuriating. Not sure if this is new but never happened to me before and now it’s happening almost every battle when I’m using shades or other fast moving infantry skirmish.
Well there's always been some issues out there, but you're the second person who noticed that part of the video "and" commented... you just try and work around the issues.
It's a recurring bug, it was fixed for a while but now appears to be back... sigh
Something else worth mentioning: These boys use Fists of Gork *really well*. The buff to melee defense it provides is extremely significant, making them temporarily tougher and harder hitting than standard ork boyz in melee. I've seen them krump ork boar boyz in one on one fights with one casting of Fists of Gork and no assistance from other archers, and just imagine what they can do when backed up with the rest of your ranged boys!
Naturally, I wouldn't be charging them into the enemy frontline just to take advantage of this, but when you can use a single casting of Fists of Gork to substitute keeping several squads of melee infantry back to protect your archer line, I'd say it's absolutely worth the investment of winds: Those boys will do more damage on the front than a foot of gork or brain bursta ever could.
That's definitely an interesting one. I haven't played non-Grimgor enough to have all the spell synergies by heart so I've learned something today, thanks!
@@OffToBattle Yeah, it mostly just comes down to Arrer Boys and Savage Arrer Boys main weakness being their low melee attack and defense: Fists of Gork solves both of these problems nicely. Really, though, any melee defense buff you can give them will pay off big time in the things they can fight one on one, it's just that greenskins lore books tend to lack strong defense buffs.
@kevingriffith6011 I never thought of that and I've got probably 40 campaigns as the greenskins under my belt. Imma use that.
There is something to be said for having a unit that can dump it's munitions and then plow into melee in the latter portions of a fight where their enemies have been softened up by protracted combat. Also having 25% physical resistance makes trading with most archer units fairly viable (especially after you slap some armor on them).
Even without the tidbits of armor they're pretty viable at that. Plain Arrer Boyz would be if they weren't likely to be shot to pieces mid-charge first.
That is one archer unit you don't want to dive into. That lord lost more than half health and got finished off by the other.
Yeah, I expected to lose. This is the classic situation where I turn back after microing something else and I'm like "Wait.. seriously!?"
@3:23 feels real bad to see ranged units doing this stuff again where they mill about in a big circle during even minor move orders
Yeah, but I feel you need to put the good and the bad in a video like this so people feel out how to work around the limitations. I like games where archers are extremely responsive, mind you.
I'm pretty sure that behaviour was introduced in 6.0 or atleast it became a lot more prevalent. I am hoping and reasonably confident CA is going to adress this "bug" soon.
@@olafthemoose9413 It feels new to me - it jumped out so much that I have to think I'd have gotten mad about it a lot more in the past. I'm not disagreeing with takyondg if they say it's been around for a bit, but this is just my recollection. It looks like every model in the unit is trying to go to the same spot _before_ attempting to turn and form up ranks again - almost like they're sand going through an hourglass. A pretty silly bug, if that's what they're doing.
It was a problem at some point in TWW3 history, then fixed, now looks like it's back for now with the newest patch
Better than the vanilla arrer boy, in my experience. The speed and physical resistance gives them an identity besides "archer that you can afford to blunder", which makes that more an upside and side perm to a more robust archer that can take flank positions and win archer fights well.
They are better, yes. Either way, good to abuse the ones you do have.
I cant say it comes up often, but when it does, these lads simply stand up to far too much.
I've never been a Bloody Hands player in prior games so I had never dived into the stuff hard until now. It's interesting.
@OffToBattle I don't blame you. The only real benefit to playing them is the early foot of Gork, Grom has actual faction mechanics. Grimgor is just stronger and buffs better units, and Skarsnik is more fun. Now that we can get shaman lords, Wurzag isn't all that unique anymore
@@TheGreatDanish HAHA GREEN BIG FOOT GOES STOMP STOMP
As an old veteran of warhammer fantasy 6th through 8th edition, I will give a bit of background on how the units you highlight on this channel generally performed on tabletop and how much their video game usage and rules align with what they did on tabletop.
Savage Ork Archers have the same issue any archer unit has: They use bows. Over the last three editions bows have consistenly been the worst missile weapon, because they lack what matters most: Punching power. Even stronger weapons like muskets don't see regular use, but they can at least do noticeable damage. Bows on the other hand rarely do. Yes, occasionally archers like the ones Wood Elves (especially in 6th and 7th) have do see play, but even though both are green, Savage Ork Archers aren't those Wood Elves.
In addition a Hybrid unit is basically never better than having the abilities seperated out. You pay for a profile that wants to fight in close combat and a weapon that wants distance. But you aren't that good at either.
If you want some plink, plink in Greenskins, you use Nightgoblins Archers with Fanatics and Savage Orks especially want to get in close and personal.
In addition in tabletop their frenzy often forces them to charge. I.e. you sometimes don't even have a choice in using your ranged attacks.
So while they are an accurate portrayel of the tabletop in parts, the whole actually isn't, simply because a Total War battle lasts as long as it lasts, while a tabletop game is done in six turns, often far earlier.
Now would the upgrades, were they to exist in tabletop, make a difference?
Actually, the significant increase in strength would be neet. A Strength 4 bow is a whole different animal than a Strength 3 one. If that were generally included, I wouldn't be surprised if we wouldn't have seen the occasional small unit of Savage Ork Archers protecting the artillery from all kinds of small skirmish units, both in melee and ranged.
This is an even better version of a hybrid ranged/melee unit than Orc Arrer Boyz. Their melee damage output is legit and allows them to actually flank enemy frontline under the right circumstances. Their campaign buffs are less extensive and more brutal than Orc Arrer Boyz. But that is to be expected given their "Savage Orc" status. I would actually leave their Calibration distance the way it is, to accentuate their "in your face" nature. Again, it's impressive how many ranged options Greenskins get, even though they are not considered a dominant ranged faction.
There's a lot of false advertising with the Greenskins like that. Until just now they only had two artillery units but both were quite useful... Skaven can say the same.
I don't understand how CA thinks 30 armor have the same value than 25 physical resistance.
Ap is more common than magical attack, and armor go down with vigour.
They don't, they price Savage Orc Arrer Boyz higher for that reason (and restrict availability), aside from the speed issue. Now they have the "scrap economy" to balance things at the higher end too. I haven't pushed Greenskins campaigns far yet, but I'll see how far I can push the Arrer side of the coin. They have uses.
Come on! Get to if Goblin wolf archers skirmishers are any good already 😅😊
I might do that next, then. I've had to be restrained in my expectations from juggling some stuff and beating away winter pine allergies and stuff. (It's way better now than it was on the weekend, though.) I've used goblin wolf riders in previous game versions.
i hate those, alway need magic to be good at killing them easily, fortunately, wood elfs have that, exempted the sister of thorn, for spell casters, they lack magical ammunitions
edit : HO SHIT ! they didn't had that before, how the fuck well we counter their physical resistance if they danpen the magic ? well, at least wild riders still work
Haha. Yeah, dampening is.. aggressive on CA's part...
@@OffToBattle probably to buff the demon, and other unit that have a lots of physical resist, weirdly enough, wood elf also get those with zoat, the zoat are quite good in a forest spirit army