Did Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard Ever Meet?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Thank you to channel member Sarah Fellows for the intriguing question that inspired today’s video! Sarah asked if there's any evidence that Anne Boleyn, Henry VIII’s second wife, and Catherine Howard, his fifth wife, ever met. They were, after all, cousins.
Discover the surprising connections between these two Tudor queens and unravel the mystery of whether they ever crossed paths. Their intertwined fates hold fascinating details that you won't want to miss. 🌹👑
Click to watch and find out!
#TudorHistory #AnneBoleyn #CatherineHoward #HenryVIII #TudorQueens
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People seem to always forget Jane Seymour was also related to Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard.
A second cousin.
Yep,all three of them shaired a great grandmother called Elizabeth Cheney.
So sad that Anne's attempt to help her uncle ended up putting her cousin in an abusive situation. :(
It put her in a very privileged position and I'm with Gareth Russell on this topic. I've been researching Catherine on and off since 2012 as I'm trying to get my book "The Fall of Catherine Howard: A Countdown" done, and I have not seen any evidence that Catherine was abused. If you mean a slap for bad behaviour from the dowager duchess, then yes, but that wasn't seen as abuse, but if you're referring to Manox and Dereham, then the evidence we have from eye witnesses, those in the household, and from the people themselves, points to romances, ill advised, but consensual. And Catherine was very much in control, putting a stop to the relationships when she'd had enough of them.
@@anneboleynfiles A 13 year old can’t consent to a “relationship” with grown men. Katherine was a child that was used and abused by the men in her life and died barely an adult.
@@Sj11507 I'm actually talking about this in my next video coming later today.
What a coincidence that the two Queens who lost their lives were so closely related 💔 The fact that Katherine Howard was so young makes her story particularly tragic.
Not to mention the fact that AB’s former sister-in-law also lost her life along with Katherine Howard.💁🏻♀️
Hers is a very sad story.
These are my direct ancestors. I was just reading about them. It is so tragic. Elizabeth Tilney, Countess of Surrey is our common ancestor. Her story is INCREDIBLE.
I hope Claire will give us a video about Bess.
Katherine actually had a 'get out of jail free' card. If she had confessed to being betrothed before her marriage, her marriage to Henry would have been voided as I understand things. However she refused. I have wondered if she was basically rather dumb.
@@sierranyokka8435 how can they be your direct ancestors. Kat had no childen and Anne's only child did not have children
I like how you went into detail about where they were at various times, and pointed out the few instances in which it is possible they encountered each other.
Thank you!
Thank you Claire ❤️💜
Wishful thinking I know to believe that Anne and Catherine had ever met at some family occasion for example or that Catherine was a wide eyed spectator at Anne's Coronation procession.
To think, had Catherine been a little older, she could have obtained a place in Anne's household. I'm sure Anne would've kept an eye on her young cousin.
I wonder did Catherine ever think of Anne and her fate when married to Henry herself. Did she ever fear Henry knowing what he was capable of.
Yes, I'm sure that if Catherine had been born a few years earlier then she could have become a maid of honour to Anne.
I wish we knew Catherine's views on Henry and marrying him. I personally think that she was just bowled over by all the gifts and affection he lavished on her. He could be incredibly generous and charming.
It really drives home how big the age difference between Henry and Catherine were when you hear that he was on the eve of his second marriage when she was being baptized. That was the year her sister Mary was married to William Carey, wasn’t it? Anne would’ve been how old? 15? About half the age of Henry? Wow smh poor girls. How ruthless do they have to be, even by the standards of the age to groom these little girls and set them out for a man’s sexual pleasure? I can’t imagine loving and nurturing a child only to be made to give her up to these retched scheming men.
Henry was born in June 1491 and Catherine in 1522/23 so a difference of about 32 years. She would have been baptised a few days after birth, so that would have been in 1522/23, just when Henry was beginning to think about setting aside Catherine of Aragon. He became involved with Anne Boleyn in around 1526 and they married in January 1533.
There's absolutely no evidence that Catherine was groomed or that she was pushed at the king. I think the Howards, knowing what they did about her past, must have been quite scared when she caught the king's eye.
@@anneboleynfiles Thank you for clarifying. I’d like to say I’d have snatched my girl out of the court so fast and made her pretend to have smallpox if I had to, to keep him off her and let her go but then hindsight is 20/20 and we can’t really know what we might have done. All the eyes and ears of court would have been upon them.
Makes me wonder, do you know any other families who did interfere to take their children away from court for that reason or others related to the dangers of it?
@@-Reagan well, Anne Boleyn retreated from court and we don't know whether that was her decision or whether her family advised it.
As always, thank you for the incredibly informative video. You are an excellent educator! 💜 I've recently been trying to answer a similar question about whether or not Elizabeth Tudor (QEI) and Lady Jane Grey resided at Sudeley Castle at the same time (since Jane was the ward of Seymour and Elizabeth was entrusted to the Dowager Queen Katherine immediately after Henry's death) and how much they might've interacted with each other in person during their lifetime if at all? Even though Jane was about 3 years younger, I wonder how close they were and how Jane's beheading affected her since she found herself under arrest in the Tower not too long after. 😟
Thank you! I enjoy sharing my research and talking Tudor.
It's hard to know how much Elizabeth and Jane interacted, but, yes, they were in the same household for a time.
I think Jane's beheading must have scared Elizabeth. It must have been something she thought about when she was in the Tower. It showed that Mary could set aside a blood relationship.
Impressive research. Thank-you.
Thank you!
God bless you Queen Anne Boleyn and Queen Katheryn Howard x
yeah quite an age gap, henry was a creep
Well, yes, I think he was, but in those days it was quite usual for an older man to marry a much younger woman, and was seen as good. The man was at a stage where he'd got a good career, had money and property, and could provide for his wife, and the woman was at her most fertile and could provide him with heir. Win-win.
I was also wondering if Elizabeth I ever met her maternal grandmother, Elizabeth Boleyn.
@2.58, is Sir William Hussy a long distance relation of Lady Susan Hussy, who is currently a Lady of the Queens Household?
Has this family been in the service of English Monarchs all this time?
Your memory for details amazes me. It really brings these people to life. Thank you so much Clare. 🫂💙👸👑🌹
I have some weird questions I have never seen addressed, not even in books. How did Tudor kings and queens arrange to have intimacy? The queen's first job was procreation. But at least in Henry VIII's court, the king and queen had separate privy chambers. The queen slept with her ladies in her chamber and the king with gentlemen of his privy chamber. Whose bed was used or was there a special room just for the king and queen at those special times? How did they disengage themselves from their retainers to get a private moment?
I cannot imagine say, Henry and Anne Boleyn, discussing the events of the day, cuddling and sleeping together every night. Henry seemed to have slept with Anne of Cleves -- good night and good morning Sweetheart -- but it was a new marriage and there was the need for consummation.
What in the world did the retainers do when the king and queen were intimate? Were plans made, times arranged, etc. for when the king and queen would be alone together?
If Henry had spent every night with his wives, he could not have used adultery as a weapon against Anne and Katherine. That much we know! 😻
Oh that is an interesting question and one I can add to the list!
Murder Most Royal. By Jean Plaidy. A great fictional meeting anyway😂
I loved all her books❤
Did she do "Brief Gaudy Hour"? Seem to remember having that book.Not sure if it was Jean Plaidy though
@@jackietowner7169 That was Margaret Campbell Barnes. Excellent book. One of the ones I read when I first discovered AB , when I was about 12-13 years old❤
Ah yes it was, thanks. Great book,
I too remember reading it at a similar age.
Oh yes!
Very interesting question!
Thank you Claire for clearing this up for me it's a shame they didn't meet at least they are together now resting with elizabeth 1st love your videos and books I've just got half way through your book about george boleyn ❤
Do you think if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were sent away and got there annulment and they were both still alive during Mary’s reign do you think both of these ladies names would have been mentioned when the Wyatts rebellion happened since Anne of cleves name was mentioned because apparently she liked Elizabeth more then Mary and she was Protestant even though there was no proof.
Thanks Claire, very interesting!
My pleasure!
So pleased that I have found this channel, thank you. Informative, interesting and well researched.
Your mention of Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard being buried in the chapel for the executed made me wonder, why didn’t Elizabeth have her mother moved and reburied in a more dignified location? I know the same question has been brought up about why Mary never moved Catherine of Aragon to somewhere more in line with her wishes, but I understand she only had a few years and her mom was still in a nice respectable place, unlike Anne, who had several “traitors” surrounding her. I get why she might not want to draw attention to the situation while her legitimacy as queen was still being threatened, but by the time she was old and unchallenged, why not quietly move her mom to a nice little country church somewhere peaceful? She just left her there to be piled on by more convicted “traitors.”
I think Elizabeth felt that it was best to let 'sleeping dogs lie', and the chapel was a Chapel Royal. It is a very dignified and beautiful place, and somewhere that Elizabeth could have visited privately if she wished. I think Anne is surrounded by a lot of innocent people, just like her. And her brother was there too. I don't think she has been piled on by more convicted traitors. Only high profile people were buried in the chancel and out of the ones there, I'm not sure who we'd term as an actual traitor.
I think Elizabeth was sensible. She paid tribute to her mother in other way - by using her falcon badge, by supporting the writing of biographies/treatises and the painting of portraits etc. I think that was very effective.
Is it true anne and catherine's ancestor is king edward I's youngest son
Could you make a video, what if Mary dowager queen of France had lived to age 100. I know it sounds like a silly question but what would have been the political ramifications?? For example if Mary dowager of France was living she would have been on the throne after Edward... Elizabeth and Mary were summoned to Edward side but they refused. What would have happened? Would the English government have put the dowager queen of France on the throne?
Jane Seymour also had a family connection with the Howards, didn't she? Through her mother, Margaery Wentworth. ❤
I always thought they didnt meet. Anne had a lot of 1st cousins due to her mother many siblings. Katherine was way younger and raised away from Anne. Also even if they did meet id say it was in passing. Like a quick hello or short convo given Katherines age. But besides being her cousin i always thought of them as strangers to one another.
Speaking of resting places, not uncommon but it seems a little odd that Thomas and Elizabeth Boleyn are not buried together even though Thomas died only a year after his wife.
And the fact Elizabeth died at/near Baynards Castle so close to London rather than at the countryside in Hever.
It was traditional for Howard women to be buried in the Howard aisle of St Mary's, Lambeth, and Thomas would have been expected to be buried in their parish church at Hever along with one of his sons. That's quite normal, and I don't think there's anything unusual about Elizabeth being in London, either, at the time of her death. She could have been seeing family, a physician she respected, anything.
I think those who say that it's evidence of a division are taking a huge leap. I've certainly never found any gossip about their marriage.
@@anneboleynfiles Oh, I didn't know there was a tradition of Howard women burials. An interesting one 🌹
Thanks Claire. My question is did Catherine Howard marry Henry the 8th of her own free will, or was she forced into it? I wonder how many women would agree to be someone's fifth wife even if he was a King.
There's no evidence that anyone forced her into it in any way. I suspect the Howards may have been rather scared when they realised that the king was interested in her, after all, they knew about her and Dereham.
I think she was probably bowled over by his generosity. He completely doted on her.
Thank you for this. Is there any evidence that Ethelreda Malte was the daughter of King Henry VIII?
She's an interesting one and I'm inclined to think there is a possibility that she was - www.tudorsociety.com/ethelreda-malte-an-illegitimate-child-of-henry-viii/
LOVE your tattoos!
Very interesting
I was thinking at the funeral of their Grandfather, the 2nd Duke Of Norfolk. Ann would have been a young adult and Catherine an infant. Though I don’t know if children attending funerals back then was a thing
There's a possibility that Anne attended, but I don't think Catherine, as a baby, would have.
@@anneboleynfiles Thank you for the reply. Other than in passing when Catherine was far too young to remember - I can’t think of a time/place either. Although like you said, Catherine’s baptism perhaps…especially since it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Elizabeth Howard Boleyn could have been Catherine’s Godmother.
Women did not attend funerals either.
thank you
I will never understand why people feel bad for women who mess around with married men or mess over women who are married to those men, then cry when karma comes full circle. 🤷
Great question.
It is!
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When i first saw the question my brain went "if they did, i wouldn't be surprised since they're family but i doubt it."
reminds me of elizabeth and mary stuarts relationship. never considered this question - i always figured catherine was much younger
Catherine was a lot younger that Anne, and Mary and Elizabeth were closer in age, weren't they, 1533 and 1542?
@@anneboleynfiles but enough distance in age they would not have been childhood friends anyway.
@@peachygal4153 and they didn't live near each other either.
Anyone feel that Elizabeth found it weird that her father had married her second cousin ?
Probably not at the time, Elizabeth was only 7. But it was one of the least awful things he’d done by the time Elizabeth was old enough to understand everything that was going on. Then her brother Edward almost married their first cousin once removed, Mary Queen of Scots, and just a few years later, her sister Mary did marry her own first cousin once removed, Phillip (the great-nephew of her mother Catherine.)
She was only small and away from court, but there wasn't anything unusual in people marrying cousins, never mind second cousins or first cousins once removed etc.
I understand he was the king and its a big deal, but it always baffled me that the family would stay in the kings orbit considering what happened to not only Anne but all 4 (i guess you could ignore Jane for this) previous wives.
Thank you for a lovely video. Where did you get the figurines on your bookshelf?
Can someone explain to me why Anne Boleyn was beheaded by the sword but Katherine Howard was beheaded by the traditional axe or "headman's axe???
I think Anne Boleyn just requested it
Henry brought in the swordsman as a "kindness." The French swordsman was an expert, and it was a clean, quick death. Anne's charges were mostly trumped up. Whereas Henry was convinced Catherine Howard had cheated on him. Execution by axe was often botched and messy. It often took several blows to decapitate the victim. Henry wanted his child bride to suffer.
@@LeonieRomanes Thanks for explaining it to me. But Henry could and should have overturned the guilty verdict and the child bride was Jane Seymour
Not Catherine Howard
Many thanks for another enjoyable broadcast.
most interesting lovely narration
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have a what if for you! What if Henry Fitzroy had lived and was Henry’s only son. Do you think Henry would have tried to make him his heir? Certainly he would have been wanted over Mary or Elizabeth.
Or… say Mary / Elizabeth became Queen and Fitzroy was still alive… would the people have rallied for Henry? Would he have had a chance at the throne?
He thought of marrying Fitzroy to Mary at one time even though they were half siblings. this was before Anne came into the picture. It sounds gross but not too shocking when uncles married their nieces and often 1st cousins married in royalty.
Why was Katherine asked to be a maid in waiting to Anne of Cleves? I would think they’d have avoided choosing someone so closely related to Anne, as Henry wanted all memory of her gone. Did they go around just randomly picking lesser noble girls? Or was she somehow a deliberate choice?
Her uncle, Lord Howard got her the position, the same uncle who was on the counsel that condemned Anne and George to death for treason.
3:59 Wasn't Katherine Howard either a baby or hasn't been born yet?
Q Could you do a "what if" on if Henry stayed married to Anne of Cleves? Would they had child. From what I read she would have an exemplary Queen and it seems like she was a good Stepmother.
She was born in around 1522/23, so, as I say, about ten when Anne was crowned.
Thank you! I'll add that to the list.
Thnk you for information ❤
I wanna think they met as they were first cousins. They might have met when Catherine was a baby but they may not have known each other well
Yes, I do think there's a possibility that Anne attended Catherine's baptism.
Thank you 🙏 ❤❤
I admire you.
Well that's lovely to hear, thank you! I'm just me!
Thank you, clsire. I am always glad to hear your videos ❤😊
Aw, thank you!
they did meet and both flipped a double headed coin..