Yes short answer using a meta build does make you a looser, I don't play magic or pokemon I've never liked them. I'm so sick of single brain cell double zims assault boosting at me with little to no consequences, it's not fun. No build should be excused from being "garage checked." You're only justification for Zim shield being healthy is just because it's the lesser evil, that's a dogshit answer. I waited and listened with an open mind because I come to you and mobi for ac content and you gave the most limp dick response to being called stinky for using a stinky build.
4:40 "50% build 50% skill" hard disagree, i would argue AC6 atm is at minimum 80% build 20% skill. The explanation you continue to give elaborates on how a good meta build is not easily garage checked, imo that reinforces the argument that skill is objectively secondary. it is nearly impossible to account for all matchups, this is obviously a good thing, but the lack of counterplay in AC6 makes it so there is only a handful of valid builds. I would argue Waterstrider isn't even meta by these standards. you can mix up parts for a matchup, sure, but i spec into fighting Zimm shield and my opponent brings lamm then that is an auto lose. If i spec into anti kite now rushdown obliterates the setup. AC6 doesn't have enough counterplay for it to be 50/50, build/skill. Counterplay is unrelated to garage, counterplay is the ability to adapt. Serious changes would have to be made to allow counterplay against shields, vertical movement, and Lamm skyboxing. The game is mostly matchup dice rolls, 80% build and 20% skill.
I absolutely agree with you. There's no chance it's 50/50 build and skill and as he said it's basically uncounterable and annoying AF. I've seen non ranked newbies pick up Zimm shield and win games. You should t have to copy builds to be good. The game has 100s of combinations yet the leaderboards look like everyone had the same idea. Don't tell players to play a meta build originality in this game is not a thing because of Meta Builds. Zimms need a super nerf
Agree. There a lot less tools to counterplay. I would say: I have enough playing same 5 maps for almost year. And only 2 of them have some kind of balance in.
13:00 People quit when they can't win with the style they want to play with because being forced in to 2 or 3 particular meta builds isn't fun, which is the whole point of playing any video game, having fun. Other players will tell them to stop complaining and quit if they don't find it entertaining then complain about the lack of wider player base engagement in competitive pvp.
The whole argument boils down to “you have to play in the blandest, least creative way possible in this game with infinite options about making infinite builds, or you don’t get to complain that the game is unbalanced.” No wonder the PVP player base is on life support with this mentality.
6:25 yeah, you are absolutely correct. I DON'T want to play a meta build: i want to build my own ACs, and have my own skill determine their performance. unfortunately, AC6 made no room for skill expression, it's just a game of rock paper scissors. it can still be fun in its own way, but that takes away a lot of the competitive appeal imo
i'll admit, i was hoping to see people just come up with cool builds to run in pvp. I stepped away because i got tired of seeing the same thing over and over. I just kinda run missions with stuff I thought looked cool and such. I do love this game, just can't hang with the pvp sadly. I still do really love this game though. If I saw more creative stuff and not the same thing every match I'd be super down to keep playing pvp
@jessemclean3080 And that's made worse by the devs refusing to make optimizing fun. The pool of useable and nuanced parts in this game (especially Missile for pvp) is honestly garbage. I'll come back to this game when from gets their head out of their ass and starts engaging with balancing to make things more fun for (at bare minimum) higher variety of playstyles. The stagger system, and the fcs range and lock on has homogenized so many builds it's actually tragic.
This is precisely why pvp becomes less fun once you hit s rank. A rank has some variety and was fun with some level of optimization but S rank is pure copy and paste meta. No variety, same build multiple times in a row. It's like a fighting game with everyone playing one or two characters out of a roster of 30. Obviously bad balance.
I don't have a problem with meta builds, it's impossible to not have a meta, the thing is, weapons in this game have 4 different roles: 1. stagger - builds up the stagger on the opponent 2. damage - deals damage to the opponent while they're not staggered 3. keeps the stagger from going down 4. punish - deals a really high amount of damage when the opponent is staggered The problem with the zimm is that it's actually too versatile compared to anything in the game and can do all 4 of these. The laser weapons, mainly the LRB, are only as strong as they are in PVP due to the latency imo, you can't tell me you can't dodge lasers on reaction if you could do it by sight and not compensating for the bad netcode, they should make all weapons defender sided, it is way more important to be able to dodge incoming fire than to see that it hits. The problem with missiles in gen6 is that there's no counter to them other than dodging, which is not enough, we should have shoulder or even back mounted parts with countermeasures. (and before anyone mentions it, the jamming bomb launcher is not doing a good enough job) PS: Since we're discussing builds here, I'll also mention one that I despise, the "Laser Swap Build", it looks really bad how they're constantly switching weapons and I can't describe how much I dislike seeing it and how frustrating it is playing against it's almost infinite laser barrage.
I agree with zimms being good at all 4 points. They are decent at everything, they are good at damage, stagger, and their own stagger punish as well. Nothing else can do this that comes to mind.
Yeah we need shoulder extensions to make a comeback. Every AC arm part has visible shoulder sockets, and the enemy LCs in the single-player missions emit flares when you launch missiles at them, so the architecture is in place. I think we can theorized that shoulder extension parts were cut from the game.
You’re right I don’t want to play meta builds and I did stop playing PvP cause I don’t want to play meta builds just because you find them to be cool looking I think they look wrong you can say they’re fun to play but I’m sorry I find the majority of meta builds and not just this game any game even to be extremely boring and predictable and I want to have fun if I got to trade my enjoyment to even see a win just cause I followed some guide with little effort I rather play another game
In my case its less hating Meta builds, and more wanting to see more unique builds, I still remmber one lunatic that runs around on PC with near full basho frame and nothing but a chainsaw. on paper its a simple win via kite but that Mfer has gotten damn good a rushing people down with fist and if they stagger you unless your running TA you are fcked. Thats of the kind of stuff i prefer to fight the weird stuff that makes you think.
Can we try a tournament where we ban zimms and LRBs please? Lets just see what player engagement is like and gauge player turnout. Even if you think zimms are balanced, they are clearly detering new players from wanting to continue with pvp, that is shrinking this community. Lets try a ban tournament and see where it goes. There is nothing to lose in just trying it.
Can’t say I really agree with much of the sentiments expressed in this video. If a lot more of the parts in this game were even close to where the top-dog parts are (which From is thankfully trying to remedy from what I can tell) then I wouldn’t have an issue with the meta; because it would be diverse, in a game where having diverse choices in your mech’s design is at focus. It’s been getting better, but I’m definitely not the only one who’s sick of running into the same meta ranked-climber builds for months now. If casual matchmaking were a thing as well, and people weren’t outwardly punished for losing, then it probably wouldn’t make such a big divide amongst player opinions in regards to meta builds. Probably a lot less disdain for meta builds if losing to them meant nothing. I know I’m definitely tired of playing an AC that I threw together and found fun, only to find it totally dumpstered in ranked, because I didn’t feel like waiting 15mins to try and lobby up in customs.
I rode the bvo hype train until it derailed and burst into flames after the viento nerf. the meta game is bound to shake up and everyone should experiment with builds outside of their comfort zone to keep the inspiration flowing...but c'mon man, zimms are that one guy who's never invited but always shows up.
From the looks of it, it seems the comments take issue less about the power of the meta itself and more the lack of build diversity and resulting creativity as a consequence. That, and while some meta setups like Zimmshield do have tech and skill to them, someone not running a meta setup has to study more to face those matchups. This limits creativity, especially if you're trying hard on the ladder. And, I'll be honest, even if the frames and paintjobs are different, a player will definitely get sick of seeing the same weapon loadouts over and over. Especially for PVP cosplayers that got into this for cosplaying their favorite mechs and trying to play them in PVP. Well, if someone brought their biped LCA Freedom Gundam cosplay, or their heavyweight pilebunker Alteisen, a Zimmshield or tank boi running them over isn't really the experience they signed up for. Especially on repeat.
I don't think so much the quality of a double zimm build is the problem as much as the quantity of it. Also, they can extend a stagger, which, in my opinion no weapon should be able to do. If they took its ability to extend stagger away I think people would complain less about them
12:59-13:50 because people don’t want to play the same handful of builds that they either don’t like or are tired of running. I didn’t buy AC6 to play a scuffed fighting game, I bought a mech action game with an emphasis on build-crafting a war machine suited to my style of fighting as many of the older games did. I feel your fundamentally missing the point that guys like me get tired of how AC6 plays because while we aren’t opposed to being garaged check in the sense that we have a natural counter the concept of losing before the fight started because I didn’t magically know my enemies set up and counter pick makes me not wanna play. And if the answer to that is “pick a meta build” I can safely say most people aren’t going to because they may as well not have the garage at that point and just be given a fighting game screen.
My issue with AC6 meta builds is they prioritize low-effort strategies and rely heavily on hardlock. Mastering meta builds seems more about timing than movement, mainly due to hardlock. It adds too much consistency and lets players focus on other things much easier. In previous AC games, kiting like this wouldn't be possible. Hardlock and your hitbox is the entire screen? Jesus! Also, it almost feels like cheating when someone can insta-guard two charged cannons or block dual earshots with a pulse shield. (wtf is that shield made of? Lol!) You can never catch them from behind because of hardlock. Lastly, Zimms work as both stagger and punish weapons, just like LRB.
AC6 is the first AC game on pc. This matters because keyboard and mouse has far, FAR better camera controls as your camera moves exactly as your mouse does. Thats not the case with controllers, they turn the camera at a fixed speed, wich is how older gen worked, why it was a skill to keep enemies within your targeting. Thats however trivial for a mouse and keyboard player so hardlock was necesary to give controller players a chance to compete. Its why when you do see keyboard and mouse players, they arent playing hard locked.
@Talon323 I think hardlock implementation in ACVI was done poorly. Piloting an AC is supposed to be demanding, requiring the player to manage every detail, but it feels like they’ve compromised on this "To appeal to a broader audience." Hardlock, in my opinion, is essentially a built-in aimbot, and even with the slight lock-on speed bonus in softlock, hardlock just overshadows it entirely. Controls on mouse and keyboard are typically superior, but not on ACVI. Hardlock even up to 350m? I mean really? It almost feels like we’re being pushed toward a simplified 2D experience with the game’s current mechanics. I’m not even sure what a better approach would’ve been, but I think there should be a way to keep that fine control without sacrificing the depth of piloting skill. Sadly, I suspect we'll see this or some form of hardlock again in the future and another stagger system.
@@Metallah23 Hardlock is a necesary evil. Yeah they probably could and should tweak some numbers to better balance it, but since its also there to appeal to the souls audiance I doubt any drastic changes will be made and in 1v1 scenarios hardlock will be the go to for controller players going forward.
@@Talon323 well in fourth gen they got around this by giving you parts where you could destabilize your AC and actually get them to turn faster in a certain direction.
@@Talon323 hard lock is not a necessary evil. You could just lock the turning speed of the AC no matter what input you're on. Would it feel weird on mouse to have locked in turning speed yeah but you'd get used to it. Especially if you had parts that major turning speed higher but sacrificed another areas. Or tuning systems that allows you to turn faster or like in four answer where you could destabilize using certain parts called stabilizers to allow your AC to turn faster in the direction that you intend to turn faster in.
I HATE how little diversity there is. An almost infinite quantity of possibilities and there are just 2 viable ways to play the game. This game has all the tools to reward creativity and yet all it does is punish it...
@@SageSea1 ive played gen 1, gen 2, gen 3, gen 4, and abit of gen 5. All are good but they atleast had good warnign sounds. Armored core 6 strips that away for false modernism. And ac5 by far was the most mechanically intensive game and was more enjoyable than ac4 on a deeper level
I think stagger extension is fine, it's the fact zimmerman can be carried by everyy weight class of AC. if they increased it's weight and made having two zimmermans need better load limit stats then I'd argue it could be balanced
@@FerionX It would further kill it actually. I'm advocating for a "weight" increase. I want people to think twice before just slapping two of them on every weight class in the game. If they where heavier you would need to optimize carrying them on a AC that isn't a stick figure or a walking tank. Imagine being able to slap two KRSVs on every weight class in the game without specing into frame parts and internals, thats the current state of zimmerman. Has great stagger build up and burst damage while weighing the equivalent to a feather. It's the reason powerbaka spawned in the first place, zimmers had such a low cost of investment you could put on the HW frame parts with a rat catching booster. I'd even argue the weight nerf would bring light to haldman builds, would rather see Powerhaldman 20's than the former
The whole game outside of pvp is about exploring options and having the freedom to do so. Right now that concept doesn’t exist in pvp for most folks. I’d argue if it did this super dope and intricate game would be getting a lot more traction. Running a meta build doesn’t exclusively make a player bad. Duh. Having such egregious meta “card game” esq counters IS absolutely terrible for the game. It’s been terrible for every high intensity pvp game I’ve ever played. Do not defend that shit if you want this game to stay alive. Ultimately FROMSOFT is just bad at pvp balancing. That’s it. It’s killing the longevity of their games and should be more often criticized in general but ESPECIALLY with ac6 (with how intricately complex this game is I get that it’s probably extremely hard but still). I just want more people to play and I really don’t think defending the status quo is gonna do anything of the sort.
Too many people in the community are weirdly precious about critiquing the game’s design and/or FromSoft. Just last week Striker himself put out a video questioning the logic behind the 1.07.2 changes, but instead of following that line of thought into questioning whether FromSoft has any kind of vision for how they want to balance AC6, he immediately turns around and blames it on players for not using one of the 6 pre-approved cookie cutter builds.
The answer should be obvious. If a build archetype is that 'optimal' so as to be branded 'meta' then surely the build has some ability to carry you, unless it's one of those really hard to use builds that takes a dedicated player to bring out the best of it. So yes, even if only by allowing you to spend effort elsewhere other than perfect piloting, a build can carry you to some degree.
Well you see heres the thing, builds can carry you meta aside. There are non meta tank builds that sure have a skill ceiling, competitive players yknow, but have a skill floor of bumper trigger bumper trigger bumper trigger assault boost trigger trigger. There are meta characters and such that mean next to nothing for casual in other games, and like you said with skill intensive builds in this game. there are pubstomping choices that mean nothing in the meta, like sniper in dota for a long time.
I mean look at Little Mac and Gannondorf in smash ultimate. Those two characters STOMP casual players but are almost always at the bottom of tier lists when looking at the game competitively
Hi Striker. New to the channel. Just watched the whole video. Your opinion does make sense, it not because losing to meta build people gets infuriating, its the variety of playstyles. Ill remind you not all are obsessed in PVP builds, people want to see other builds other than zimmerman combo. Plus you addressing this means single rankers are dealing the same problem right now. A to S rank single match nearly all opponents are meta build, people want the feeling of the DAY 1 game, PVP build for fun, now they are just happy with how high of a rank in their build gets them. You should see not all players are mechanical inclined in gaming, nor they are good at swapping in-game. Just consider the idea we just entered stagnation in build-crating because we are working with limited parts and rebalancing game regulations is soon not gonna cut it. A good example is the IB-C03W1: WLT 011, which was buffed 2 consecutive times. Means they are going buffing other build variety. Sorry to say your 50/50 on this argument and later down the line they just gonna say no, will not stay for long or outright quit the match with META players. if Meta players loses interest because nobody wants to match with them in PVP. Sidenote: i hope they add other PVE or PVPVPVE mode this game does need casual gamers to breathe new life to the game.
That post is a straight up bad take, but jumping off that to talk about meta hate is just as wild imo. People complain there’s 6 viable competitive builds in a game with infinite options, precisely because the point of the game is to “make a build.” The idea that “these frame parts are wrong and therefore the build is trash” shouldn’t be a thing; buildcrafting should be flexible enough to accommodate a wide range of frames and customizations even with limited weapons. The problem is inflexible mechanics like AB and ACS that automatically invalidate tons of parts and playstyles. The game is barely a year old and the PVP playerbase has died faster than anything I can remember from previous generations, simply because of how unbalanced of a mess it is. And that’s saying nothing of issues like the insultingly bad netcode for a 2023 release. I really wish content creators would spend more time discussing obvious flaws like the lack of build diversity and how they could be improved, instead of trying to justify or minimize them.
14:28 fine. I’ll be a meta slave. And I will only stop once I’m in the top 20. My name is, Skibidi Sigma. And if I do make it to top 20, I will be going back to my medium weight flame thrower build.
I'm jealous. I wish i could enjoy this game. I'm an armored core vet and it used to be one of my favorites. But this game feels so empty even when I win.
Ngl, seeing a Reddit post about how using meta makes you a loser and turning it into a 28 min rant against it, is kinda crazy. It's just some guy, that disagrees with you, that meta builds are not hard to play. They are not wrong, he can have his opinion but making a long video about it drawing a bunch of people's attention to it, is borderline setting up a hate bridage, which I know the AC community is really good at.
@@blaze4668 The reason was that I have a series on my channel where I show off the current meta builds. Used the post as an intro to talking about and showing off the current best build in the game. Doing LRBshield next
@@strikerhutassa but dude you went into a rant about exact parts and compared them to magic when they are so much different. Magic is a card game with text set in stone. When ac6 has so many different variables its ridiculous. I could take this Zim set up and kite if I wanted to, now it won't be really effective but if I wanted to I could. You're so focused on what's on paper that you don't think about individual human play style or skill. The post I made was more about using a particular build doesn't mean you're good at the game. Example being if me and you fought a 100 times using the exact same builds and I beat you 90/100 then that would mean I have more skill. You took it into "this made me so mad" because it's not the exact build that got the name in the first place aka bvo/duck blade. If I take the exact weapons you have and put them on a different frame it'll still be a duel zim build, it may not be the exact part for part but it still plays the same role.
Nah, fuck that. You can argue the rant is unnecessary or unhinged or whatever, but if you're posting an opinion on not just the internet, but fucking REDDIT, you opened the door for however many people to respond to you however they like into infinity. Also, if we're being honest, any community on the internet will have it's most unhinged members do unhinged shit and I know you know that, so idk why you would even attempt to single out the Armored Core community lmao
I’m one of the top players on Xbox and your off your rocker if you think a meta build doesn’t make a bad player better, armored core has always been 50% skill 50% build, but Zimm shield is busted for those who do not know how to deal with it and that’s based on your build. Everyone is striving to create there version of a masterpiece build in order to be able to fight anyone but with so much diversity the game has checks and balances. But if your top players don’t use a meta build and instead there own created build most get dog walked that’s why all platforms currently have false rankers now, once the meta is almost none existent then we can start boxing and clashing like we are supposed to instead of people running in a 1v1, it’s just my personal preference but I have never used, Zimms, earshot, javelin beta, or any crutch weapon to get a ranked dub I fight you straight up as a lightweight main,also why don’t we have 2v2, FS needs to get there stuff together.
striker… this video is a little bit atrocious in my opinion. first off it’s not that people hate meta in mtg but there is a reason several mtg cards are banned between formats. do we need a ban? no. but saying people don’t dislike meta cards in magic is not true. many things in magic are way too good. equally i think that defending meta builds in the way you are is very confusing. to me, the entire game is about making a build and piloting it well (i think we agree here). Not every build needs to work, but i don’t think that we should be defending the best in slots for certain builds as it quite literally reduces creativity. If this game is about having fun with your dinky build that works well why would that good player stay and get eaten alive in S rank because what was fun to them can’t exist anymore. I have seen this in more than one competitive game and I can’t understand the logic behind it. but, these are my thoughts and I would hopefully like to understand eventually. a video clarifying what you mean by your points in the video or adding more details would be great! I certainly hope at least some people love this game, even if it is the very top percent of players.
and it isn’t that I hate meta builds or people that play them. I feel like certain parts can just dominate and make this game either over at garage (which imo is boring) or have only a couple builds that are genuinely worth using… that feels really weird and very “if you aren’t doing well just use the good part” which as i said throws creativity in the garbage.
@@themothpope1720 thank you for also echoing this. You said it way better than I ever could. As someone who is played many a competitive game I understand the needs for balance for bill diversity for play diversity. Too much of the same makes the game stale simple as that
@@themothpope1720I just want to put it out there that I'm one of those players that make something that works best for me and I tried to do my best to Pilot it to its Max ability and make Minor adjustments along the way but the major thing is learning how to pilot something well over using a cheap trick tactic, Meta's can make a game boring or even just not even fun since the creativity is gone and people just encourage the meta this, so this cause that. Trust me, I get some pretty bad comments about my stuff but at the end of the day, it works for me and thanks for the feedback is what I always gotta say. But I love what I have and I would rather get better at it, give them a good fight but never change a thing but my ability to do it better next time. 🤌🏼⚔️⛈️⚔️
No amount of shilling or meta glazing will save this game’s dying PVP scene. If you can’t see why people aren’t having fun I don’t know what to tell you.
I got soo many names for this game flick core 6, build core 6, check core 6,. Like im fine with hard lock but why did they make AB soooo spammable? Like AC 2 had the issue where overboost was very spammable and it was braindead. AC 2 you still had to aim but still you got in too easy. I hope going forward they put in a mechanic limiting Assault Boost. Like a overheat mechanic where it goes on cool down or you get slower. Like there needs to be a downside to every mechanic.
🚨Long winded post alert: Great video! I think the problem is Armored Core is an appealing game based on the hundreds of customization options, fashion, mobility, etc. And yet we’re locked into a handful of builds that are viable. I don’t think that is sustainable in attracting a consistent player base. I personally feel the stagger system limits the meta even more. I was only a gen 4 player in the past, so I realize my perspective is limited. But I wish this game had shoulder weapons like AC4 or even more core expansion options that added new playstyles and functions to the meta. The current meta builds feel too templatized and prescriptive for my liking. If I want to play a game where everyone’s build is the same, I’d go play an FPS or something. I don’t want my build being labeled a frog, duck, biscuit or whatever the names are LOL. AC6 was easily my most anticipated game in over 10 years. I didn’t expect to stop playing so soon due to lack of build viability. Constantly boosting into someone’s face with shotguns and multiple laser cannons just isn’t appealing to me. That said, I may try a meta build out of my sheer love for the game. But my hope is Armored Core 6.5 will eventually improve upon what I believe is a base game with potential to be something great!
I believe this is an issue too, but the player base venomously attacks any critics towards the game. I've seen alot of targeted harassment towards anyone who thinks that the game isn't perfect. Game is never gonna reach it's potential cause of people like that just want 1% of parts to be good to they can get their easy "garage skill" wins, put them in any other game that demands the bare minimum of needing to control looking at the general direction your opponent to deal damage and they crumple. Added some of these people, and generally they don't play anything that demands effort, or requires getting better outside of somthing you can just Google search an answer for.
Im ok with AC6 not having optional and extension/shoulder parts. It is a whole new template for an AC game, they clearly killed it with the story, missions and mechanics, exposed this franchise to millions of new players, so I surmise they'll review feedback from AC6 to make AC6.5 better. That being said, I think the major issue is the addition of the stagger mechanic. AC4 PvP had a lot of cat and mouse action. Yes there was something of a rush to wear down the opponent's Primal Armor to swing for big damage for aggressive builds, but the emphasis on quick turning, positioning, selective firing of weapons, etc took priority. You only had one match instead of best 2/3 against an opponent, so matches took a lot longer and felt more tactical. On the contrary, a lot of AC6 meta builds are basically in a rush to AB up to you, wail on you, stagger you, and then wail on you some more to finish you off. Or get AP lead and run out the clock. It feels like there's a lot less player interaction, especially if you run into a bad matchup where the build carries you so much. 4th and 5th gen felt a lot less rock-paper-scissors than 6th gen does, at least IMO.
Players aren't quitting ranked because "they reach higher ranks and their build falls off". They quit because the higher ranks are full of a handful of meta builds which are simply not fun to play against. Rats that get AP lead and spend 2 mins running away are not fun to play against. Zimm/LRB-Shield builds are not fun to play against. Skybox hugging tetrapods are not fun to play against. There is limited or often no opporunity for counter play, you're far too likely to be "build checked" by a handful of the same builds in a game that's supposed to be about build variety. The game (or more realistically it's future iterations) needs drastic changes to disincentivize obnoxious playstyles (least of which being more anti-missile tools because the jamming launcher alone just doesn't cut it) otherwise ranked will remain a toxic wasteland and the player numbers will continue to dwindle, but if that's what you want by all means keep telling people to "just play a meta build".
“Limited or no opportunity for counter play” is really the key issue here. The game’s two central mechanics-AB and ACS-are far too inflexible for counterplay. One shoots you in a straight line while buffing damage and negation, while the other is an uncounterable punish window that can only be negated once with expansion. It’s a fundamental design issue, and I worry that it’ll carry over to newer iterations of this franchise unless people critique it more loudly instead of glazing and blaming players for not adhering to the meta.
I’m more of build for fun over build for meta. Reason why is I feel most meta builds are just copy&paste of the same build rather bland (even if you give said build a different coat of paint) and rather see different builds with parts and weapons of all kinds being used, giving it a breath of fresh air over a stagnant pool of parts this everyone.
Honestly, I would argue that having a meta isn't bad, what's bad is the fact that it lacks variety and couterplay options, my biggest gripe with AC6 is the lack of depth in certain aspects of customization, I wish we had more parts and tunning options for said parts. Not only that, the stagger system, while a nice addition, feels like it made weapons like assault rifles and smg's obsolete.
Dude i just now actually watched the whole video. I never said playing meta makes you a loser. I didnt have a issue with anyone playing any kind of build what so ever. The post was about use your brain and develop some skill in the game. You're on here telling people to use meta and forget everything else which is worse than what I was saying. Which yes I stand by me saying playing meta doesn't make you a good player. Someome could take that same build you are using against you using it and stomp you because they are better at the game. Then you tell me to go get help? You literally said in my reddit post that I had a attitude but on here as soon as you beat the power bake or wharever you call it, you immediately got cocky asf. You say I'm upset with people when the post was literally rage bait and then you made a 30 min video on how a 30 sec game play clip pissed you off so bad you had to go on a rant. Then you assumed the match was a ranked match when it wasn't and said I was being toxic. How exactly was I toxic? By saying a build is meta? By saying meta don't make you good? By saying it was so easy i was bored? The first was an opinion and the second is fact. You apologized to me in your discord that only your discord seen. If you really wanna apologize then why don't you make another video doing so because the world can see your video but not your discord which I was invited to because one of your members was on reddit and seen how toxic people were being. Plus it's such a coincidence that I have clips posted on reddit where people were saying crazy things to me and the clips are still up and you can go see them for yourself but as soon as you make a video of that post it got taken down. Maybe if you actually looked into why I made that post and talked to me instead of making a rant video trying make me look like some hateful person you would of understood why I made the post in the first place. Btw if you consider me being toxic towards the people that were toxic in the first place towards me is bad then you need to go get help because thats like saying no it's ok if someone bullys you just ignore them and to that I would say f-that! Don't start no sht there won't be no sht for real! So don't come at me with a holier-than-thou attitude when you and people in your discord have said toxic things and even bragged about being toxic in the comments on my reddit post. So take a look in the mirror and you go get help because no one in thier right mind should be getting that pissed over a 30 second clip of a video game. Had to edit because I seen how your spreading lies. On your stream you say I told people playing meta makes you a bad player and that's a straight up lie but nice try dude. Funny how in your stream and videos you've throw out these assumptions when the things you're saying I never said so take your apology and shove it dude. You're a two faced dude talking trash right after you wanted to "make sure there was no bad blood" in your exact words.
@@chuckec yeah he fabricated lies saying I said things I didn't in his stream and video. Then proceeded to be toxic and arrogant like what he was accusing me of.
I'm impressed of how many people actually want to create different builds and are veering away from a lot of the communities because of certain toxicity and comments from some of the individuals. I won't lie, I've noticed it on occasion from some of the players that basically just downplay your builds and call it ass and really don't give great feedback other than playing Meta's and telling you that you're using s*** parts. I've had more fun playing my builds and have tried those meta types and honestly, I can't stand them. I even wonder how people win on their own with them but yeah, the creativity and lack of real support to skill playing different varieties is something these guys seem to ignore and glorify their cookie cutter builds and styles. It. Is. Stale. Winning isn't everything after awhile but to some of them, thats more important than being fun or inviting. Another reason why I enjoy the group that we play with very much. This whole meta thing to me is boring as hell.
I think the frustration comes from the fact that in order to start understanding what is "meta" you need to start developing encyclopedic knowledge of all the frame parts in the game and their roles. And if you don't do that, then you're just signing up to get garage checked. So you do all this insane research on all these different parts and analyze why they're good, but you still end up concluding that there's a handful of parts that are obviously head and shoulders above the rest. Thats kind of a bummer. It would be cool if it was harder to "choose wrong," for the lack of a better term.
As a HAL 826 main, I'm fairly disappointed in all the different meta builds. I can't spend a single ranked PvP match before meeting a LRB build or a zimmie, along with other double weapons. I really wish people would be more creative rather than use the "monkey see monkey do" builds that are crawling everywhere nowadays... Really wish other people would use the presets too, as it adds (for me) more of a fun vibe rather than getting clapped because of some braindead meta users... Preset fights for promotion phases would be fun, as a way of forcing a pilot of showing some skills. Ps: This is not criticism towards all meta players, only the ones who keep using the same stuff over and over again (especially you, shield-zimmies and LRB spammers).
Striker, the main problem with a "deck" is that "choice" is too small. We have: 3 cqc kings(zimm+lrb+etsu), 2 kinetic kite kings(harris+ransetsu), whole rocket setup to be king of rating(JP Lamm). And nothing other. There is no personality behind those setups. Somebody can say about paint jobs, but, meh, its only time you want to spend on it. Pillager said, that game is 8/10 of build and only 2/10 of skill, what is true. For your knowledge: people so tend to some patterns, that I, actually, hit lamms in thiers skyscraper race with Earshot. You know, with Earshot, thing fly for 2 whole seconds.
I don't mind Zimmerman shield and I'm now almost strictly a double melee player on PlayStation. Can't do anything about it so I don't complain and I wouldn't do anything about it either. Basically I choose to get checked in the garage by choice. It's peoples mindsets in video games I think they should change not meta. I'm having fun win or lose idc. I play to have fun but if someone has fun by winning all the time by using meta builds then all glory to them. Is there some things I find annoying in AC6 yes it's dual laser cannons 😅. But can't complain about it cause I have a freedom Gundam build that uses them. Also around 4:37 I disagree skill is 70% build is 25% and 5% is your connection for the internet. I've played against players that have are laggy to the point if I wonder if lag switching is a thing in this game. Good video tho 😊.
Honestly I think the only problem I have with meta builds is when I’m just trying to have some matches in regular lobbies and I’m just trying to mess around with different fun builds. I just expect to see metas if I’m queuing ranked because people want to win, but when that just moves into casual matches is when I get a little annoyed. I also almost exclusively play light mid or straight up lightweight builds though so there are a lot of just bad match ups for me, but the heavy weight and especially tanks legs just feel bad to pilot to me personally. Side note, a really fun build that I’ve been fucking with recently is dual ducketts (or the smaller ones I forget the name) with one shoulder Gatling with a bunk punish. Doesn’t feel super strong because you can miss the charge bunk pretty easily because of spacing or sometimes just because of netcode, but overall really fun cqc build.
What makes meta builds dishonest? Everyone knows what they do, you aren't about to get hit by "laser turret knowledge check #869". Zimm shield is literally the most honest build in the game.
Seeing the same 4-5 meta builds in Ranked is frustrating enough, which is also exacerbated by netcode which shatters the moment a player connects to another player on the other side of the world. Like dude, I want to make cool builds - not get funnelled into meta builds which at this point is becoming souless. Also, your comparison of AC6 to deckbuilding games is also moot because those games only has to worry about RNG / chance and strategy rather than other things such as latency, player reactions, map selection and cheating such as lag switching. Like some people have said already, zimms are simply too powerful and versatile which are then exacerbated by latency.
Playing meta in the a sense doesnt make them a loser, but kills variety and gameplay because it gets tiring having to face off against these builds. You have all these parts and weapons yet people try to go for the easy to learn and use builds to play. At the end of the day AC6 PVP needs some work still. Hopefully the next entry will fix it. (NETCODE PLEASE)
Yes there has to be a King. But Zimmerman has been king the ENTIRE time. It ruins the flexibility of customization which AC should be all about. A lot of possible PvP players have already left because the game plays more like Tekken fighting game with its combos and seriously lack playstyles. 99% of playstyles on the leaderboards are either Combo locking CQC or missile spam. And both of those are absolutely frustrating to play against for the vast majority of people. The player count says it all, the PvP is just not fun overall.
The very existence of meta in a game means that the game is poorly balanced. Ofc there always will be buids that perform better than others, but having 3 meta builds in a game where you can make thousands of them is crazy. Do not encourage players to play meta, that's how you kill the game
I feel you Striker, I’m having fun with neo-statue and I’m so tired of people whining and complaining about it. People should just get better and not try to make the other person have less fun.
Started off the idea of playing ac6 pvp with my very own build with my very own style before ranked came out. I made my mech in several variations, made my style, and completed my mission is proving that my style works on my own with what i made. S ranked every season on PS(S1 I sat in top 40 for a while then stopped attempting to since im way more busy usually to dedicate a top 100 climb), every matchup being winnable as long as I play my best and adapt within the match. Though everyone simply isnt like this. Some people just copy paste a build thats branded to work and get most of their wins through that alone. With such a game I think most people want to see an expression of the pilot in a build that speaks for them instead of seeing the same build with the same frame playing the same way that another that also copied the same thing plays. But of course theres nothing inherently wrong with what someone thinks is meta. People are allowed to play what they want, but when everyone is playing the same thing it becomes a lack of expression and gets stale. Same thing with card games as a yugioh player. Sure meta is cool and all, sure running certain cards thats considered good is cool, since it isnt the WHOLE deck. But if youre running meta mirror matches back to back to back it gets pretty repetitive really fast.
This is a mech customization game and building your mech is THE core mechanic. Meta builds, counter builds, niche builds, etc. are all part of the meta game.
I just didn't play meta because it didn't look fun also everyone was doing it, i thought it eliminated build expression, which the campaign passively teaches is the real fun, but the community is weird that way, one person swears "its all about meta and in the garage" and everyone just accepts it as mecha gospel, i chose parts that felt good to pilot learned to play close but pick engagements, and def learned to pace shots, i was always between win streaks 8-10 games straight sometimes 7-6, builds def matter learning YOUR build just matters more, but yes i assume anyone who's on a meta build to not understand the nuance and danger of non meta builds
Hey Striker, AC6 was my first armoured core game after a few souls game (and massive Titanfall 2 fan so love the mechs), I loved this game and the build variety and creativity but after doing a lot of grinding in ranked to get midway through A rank, it did make me exhausted after seeing a lot of builds that were similar. The only build I have played ranked PVP with is a lightweight kite with 2 bubble guns and 2 auroras and man was it fun getting wins with that build. I had other builds that I tried in unranked and was good at but I always came back to that build because for me, getting to S Rank with something I created from scratch (I'm sure somewhere along the line someone's done the same build, but without watermelon colouring and isn't called Fruit Tingle) felt really rewarding for me. I haven't played ranked games in several months but I am keen to give it another try soon, I always jump back into the garage and create/customise my builds after updates. The main thing I love seeing on your channel are AC players who bring strange ideas into the matches and win with them, like Dez bringing the WLT rifle, that is just a true testament to their skill. Yes I'm sure with enough practice they could be good at a meta build too, but there is something just satisfying about knowing that you came up with this build and you piloted it to perfection. So yes if someone isn't doing as well in the game without a meta build they could play meta, but remember the build variety we would possibly be missing out on if that happened. But I appreciate your honest take on the situation, and you're right in many ways the zimm shield is healthy for the game. There is always going to be a best option with the way the game is built, but I'm hoping the PVP becomes/feels like it's balanced enough that people don't feel forced to use a meta build to win.
Whenever I saw someone shoot both Zimms at the same time, I know I might have a chance to counter, but if it's someone that knows (or just somewhat) how to use them, I basically dies. I'm the type that runs double LCA biped, nothing beats that feeling when the shots connected and vaporized an enemy lol
Are we really defending an overused, obnoxious copy paste dual zimm shield build? People can play how they want but if they teabag or act toxic after winning using a build like that we can catch hands irl
I already know its about to be a gen war sorta because i agree about the hard meta stuff i had to accept the gameplay for what they gave us now but 50% player and 50% build seems like a big stretch. I've read some of other comments already i hard agree with people being is truly not that diverse in terms of weapon options its the reason i dont play anymore the game doesn't reward my playstyle nor my expression or anybody else's i came to terms of why already its not hard meta it's really good build got me to top 40 first season (on ps4 by the way) but after that i question so much stuff about the game because I've felt like that was the peak of what i can do with my personal best build. I just stepped away because i was getting way to deep with it competitively and just stayed to designing and painting AC'S. if anyone is curious on the build its Right arm:LRA LEFT ARM:ETSUJEN R BACK:HUXLEY L BACK:P20MLT-04 FRAME: HEAD:MIND ALPHA CORE:HAL 826 ARMS:EPHEMERA LEGS:MIND ALPHA INNER: BOOSTER:NGI 001 FCS:TALBOT GEN:VE-20B EXPANSION: ASSAULT ARMOR I named it Jinx its dynamic to agro hit and run or def play I still love striker no hate i still hope to play in one of his tournaments one day and meet everybody 😅
The answer? Yes, if you are only playing it because you read it was meta and nothing more. Play with the stuff that feels right and fun to you! And if winning is how you have fun then find the meta that supplements and enhances how you play!
Imo the problem with dual zims is the high damage, stagger AND easy stagger extention. If it traded one of the former 2 for the other and got rid of stagger extention it would be more balanced. I don't think ranged should have stagger extension at all as it's too easy to hit That should be reserved for melee as it requires precise timing and should be a reward for that kind of high risk high reward build.
I think there are a lot of a/s rank builds but not to many a/s rank players, i could really rant about this but I’ll keep it short, I think using a copy and paste build makes you a bad player (most the time) be original and create something you’re proud of, my entire AC6 career I’ve never once used a meta build or even a HW build and I’m in A I’m pretty proud of that!
Duals in AC6 are dumb. Its truly, some of the worst pvp. Skill has next to nothing to do with duals. Duals are a dice roll. The Meta of AC6 is trash and unhealthy. It is absolute copium, to say Zimms are good for the game. They are not. They are mathematically busted. Its build diversity death. Your AC, is garage checked, 80% of the time. Armored Core, fundamentally, from a mathematical and mechanics standpoint, IS A SHIT PVP GAME. Use these meta builds/setups with stat density, or lose. A lot. If AC6 pvp was a team thing, with bot MT's, air and artillery support, maybe it could be...probably not. PVE is fantastic, this one of my all time favorite games. The fact COOP is not a thing, is a hugely missed opportunity by Fromsoft. Games like League of Legends, certainly have their meta, and sometimes the hard counter to your champion, is no longer a counter, because you adapted in game, and leapt at windows of opportunity. Sometimes, non-meta picks, are fucking power-houses, because your a boss with that pick.
Don’t really care about the meta as long as I’m having fun, unless my opponent starts cheating when they are losing to a build that isn’t meta while they are using meta. Using meta with skill: NOT a loser. Using meta while cheating: 100% a loser.
People are anti-meta because the "meta" builds are so much better than anything "off-meta", the gaps are, even after all the patches, still huge. This is turn stifles diversity and people don't like being railroaded into BiS stat spread to win matches. Its why people call this a DPS race game, or a stat-check game. An ima be real, to reach S rank, you just need stats, you don't need that much skill because skill expression in this game is much more limited compared to something like Elden Ring. Not saying it does'nt exist, but its not the deciding factor most of the time, numbers are.
Meta is meta cause it doesnt have alot of bad matchups take for examples curved swords in dark souls 3 theyre meta but still take skill to use at a top level just because a setup is good doesnt mean it isnt beatable with off meta stuff skill still helps a ton in bad matchups you can outskill a shield player with good feints etc etc
The meta player=loser argument has always been a lame duck. Playing to win and building to win is always a good thing. I just hate the fact there is so little room for expression in builds. I have played lots of various mech games, some even at a high competitive level, and AC6 (especially in tourneys) just doesn't have much to bring new people in and keep them in. I felt the same way trying to break into playing SF3 3rd strike, and MVC games. Then again I enjoy playing lighter builds with a melee option and I could just be salty that the skill floor is on venus somewhere. I jump into PvP every now and again expecting to lose every time and enjoy it on occasion. Not my game I guess, but I still enjoy watching your content.
The AC6 PvP community (at least the more casual side of it) has a toxicity and elitism problem. And I know saying a PvP community has that problem is sort of like saying fire is hot, but it really has bummed me out and soured me on things somewhat. The amount of animosity I've seen thrown at any number of builds and playstyles is really obnoxious. Whether it's some sort of tank, or anything using lasers or missiles, or any sort of kiting, or whatever other random things people who don't even know what the meta is think are meta. Too many people hate that builds matter, they don't want Armored Core they just want it to be less unique and more like so many other PvP experiences where it's all about how you play and this bitterness causes them to make irrational claims about playing a strong build meaning you don't have skill, which they could easily disprove to themselves if they actually tried it themselves. They also don't understand the creativity and decision making to even MAKE a strong build is a skill unto itself. Ultimately as well, for a game to have a lot of build variety, which this game does, it has to allow the possibility for players to make wrong decisions and a bad build. Not every possible combination has to be good and it'd be an absurdity for them to be. And of course, not every part was even designed for PvP. Fighting another AC is just one facet of gameplay so naturally not all build styles or parts are going to excel at it.
4:20 you *absolutely* see this kind of thinking in card games and wargaming ("netlisting"), and also in tabletop RPGs ("rollplayers") which aren't even competitive, and any other hobby with player toolset customization.
Some people refuse to do PvP because their build wont work. Whereas I refuse to do PvP because I refuse to use ugly part combos. We are not the same 😎 P.S. It'd be real nice if PvP balance was separate from PvE balance, it really scuffs replayability (in PvE) to have to rebuild a setup because one or more parts got trash-canned due to 'overperforming in PvP'. Its been a gripe of mine since Dark Souls 2.
What do you think about dual zimms with dual stun needles or dual earshots. I think earshots are too slow but honestly the needles velocity give it really good tracking
@striker Hutassa I have played this individual numerous times. He is basing this off the current S ranks 100 on Xbox ranked. We are a smaller player base so the meta becomes a grey area between consoles
@@tyjackson6509 what he doesn't know is I have meta builds but choose not to play them because they are boring. If he came to xbox I'd bunk him in a heart beat but seeing as he's hell bent I'd probably use a actual meta build against him a couple times and show him what "meta don't make you good" really means.
I remember in ACV when the reverse joint stability hack with shotguns was found and I thought I was was one of the best, now I relize I’m part of the reason people stopped playing right off the bat. I’ll take my responsibility but from should take theirs and keep tweaking to produce variety and unique combinations. Orrr they should update the ai to do what people are going to do. Then it really would be a “souls like” instead the gave the npc more personality than meta slaves have
If using the meta makes me a loser, so be it. Have fun getting stuck on an activity or boss I've cleared a dozen times already. So, who's really losing here? The problem with meta in games is that it becomes boring. In the end, efficiency is king. It's ironic how the goal is to play the game as little as possible while still getting a metric ton done.
I feel like the options people want open come from gundam series where melee can be as versatile as ranged & range has as much movement as melee. Armor cored really isnt that type of mech game its more technical where gundam is more of a fighting game so idk i see where i went wrong after awhile, still come back to check things after updates but honestly wasnt for me more of a fighting game guy like gundam vs series and im okay with that but AC6 is a great game.
Me trying to follow allong knowing absolutely nothing about the PvP meta or how it's developed since the first patch or even WTF a Rat is. (Zimmermans still being top dog is pretty funny.)
About the card game meta comment. There is absolutely a large number of players in pretty much any card game you can or can't think of who will throw a fit at people for using meta decks or "netdecking" nomater if the meta is actualy toxic or not, or even if the deck in question is meta or not. A good example I can think of is Tearlamets in Yu-Gi-Oh which was once an extremely dominant and centralizing deck that has since fallen far off due to bans and power creep. A lot of people will still give you hate for playing it regardless. and even back when it was meta. although it was incredibly centralizing to the point of almost being the only viable deck, those mirror match games were incredibly interactive and skill intensive, and not as brainless as haters tend to make meta choices out to be.
I don't play meta builds and used to hate any double zimmerman fights I had in ranked. Now with more skill and knowledge I would say zimmshield and lrb shield might be the most exciting builds to fight against in A rank. I play either meele with shield or variant of a waterstrider with shield. Of course I would have different opinion without running the shield 😅
I don’t know maybe with m&k zimmshield is boosted? but I play with controller against controllers and zimmermans are not the worst problems. Also you say that dude was using the wrong parts, but there’s a reason he picked those parts, the way you build the AC just looking at the stats, you miss that there are gameplay changes related. You wonder why he’s using abbot? Abbot is definitely right for that medium short range prediction you would lose it with ocellus.
I don't really hate players using meta builds(unless they get disrespectful about it), I mean it's always gonna be part of any multiplayer game really so it's to be expected. It's just annoying tho seeing the same builds tho over and over and over, and with how easy a build can get build checked really kills the diversity with how miserable it can be.
It irritates me that Zimms were never nerfed once, a 20-25% fire rate nerf would be a step in the right direction if they can’t bother touching the damage or impact I just want my middleweight RJ bazooka melee build to be decent again… 😞
I am sorry to say I’m not playing ac6 until I get my hands back on my pc. Playing this game on McDonald’s wifi with no more than 40 frames rlly tanks PvP 💀
Before leaving a comment PLEASE check out this time stamp! 3:21
this comment section is COOKED
Yes short answer using a meta build does make you a looser, I don't play magic or pokemon I've never liked them. I'm so sick of single brain cell double zims assault boosting at me with little to no consequences, it's not fun. No build should be excused from being "garage checked." You're only justification for Zim shield being healthy is just because it's the lesser evil, that's a dogshit answer. I waited and listened with an open mind because I come to you and mobi for ac content and you gave the most limp dick response to being called stinky for using a stinky build.
Trading card games have ban lists.
@8bitvvitch98 you should check my most recent video where I explain a part ban in depth. We've recently decided to ban basho core
4:40 "50% build 50% skill" hard disagree, i would argue AC6 atm is at minimum 80% build 20% skill. The explanation you continue to give elaborates on how a good meta build is not easily garage checked, imo that reinforces the argument that skill is objectively secondary. it is nearly impossible to account for all matchups, this is obviously a good thing, but the lack of counterplay in AC6 makes it so there is only a handful of valid builds. I would argue Waterstrider isn't even meta by these standards. you can mix up parts for a matchup, sure, but i spec into fighting Zimm shield and my opponent brings lamm then that is an auto lose. If i spec into anti kite now rushdown obliterates the setup. AC6 doesn't have enough counterplay for it to be 50/50, build/skill. Counterplay is unrelated to garage, counterplay is the ability to adapt. Serious changes would have to be made to allow counterplay against shields, vertical movement, and Lamm skyboxing. The game is mostly matchup dice rolls, 80% build and 20% skill.
I used to have this take but I put in the hours to beat rushdown with kite and such, there is skill deeper in
@@aidank5428 Dawg this is pilliger
He knows this stuff pretty damn well
@@JD_Volt 💀lol mb didnt read the name lol
I absolutely agree with you. There's no chance it's 50/50 build and skill and as he said it's basically uncounterable and annoying AF. I've seen non ranked newbies pick up Zimm shield and win games. You should t have to copy builds to be good. The game has 100s of combinations yet the leaderboards look like everyone had the same idea. Don't tell players to play a meta build originality in this game is not a thing because of Meta Builds. Zimms need a super nerf
Agree. There a lot less tools to counterplay. I would say: I have enough playing same 5 maps for almost year. And only 2 of them have some kind of balance in.
13:00
People quit when they can't win with the style they want to play with because being forced in to 2 or 3 particular meta builds isn't fun, which is the whole point of playing any video game, having fun.
Other players will tell them to stop complaining and quit if they don't find it entertaining then complain about the lack of wider player base engagement in competitive pvp.
The whole argument boils down to “you have to play in the blandest, least creative way possible in this game with infinite options about making infinite builds, or you don’t get to complain that the game is unbalanced.” No wonder the PVP player base is on life support with this mentality.
6:25 yeah, you are absolutely correct. I DON'T want to play a meta build: i want to build my own ACs, and have my own skill determine their performance. unfortunately, AC6 made no room for skill expression, it's just a game of rock paper scissors. it can still be fun in its own way, but that takes away a lot of the competitive appeal imo
It’s not weird, that match between two zim build wasn’t even fun to watch.
I agree bro that was snooze fest
Tbh, saying meta gears are healthy for the game is like saying eating junk food is healthy because they're delicious.
i'll admit, i was hoping to see people just come up with cool builds to run in pvp. I stepped away because i got tired of seeing the same thing over and over. I just kinda run missions with stuff I thought looked cool and such. I do love this game, just can't hang with the pvp sadly. I still do really love this game though. If I saw more creative stuff and not the same thing every match I'd be super down to keep playing pvp
People will always optimize the fun out of matchmaking
@@chelaelesath ruclips.net/video/n7Y2SwsF8Q0/видео.htmlsi=0q0IxxdilkYuKNUv
😎 Cool build
@@chelaelesath ruclips.net/video/Fcpr-smQwJI/видео.htmlsi=A9JDHUCc23MQqQLU
😎 Cool build in S!
@jessemclean3080 And that's made worse by the devs refusing to make optimizing fun. The pool of useable and nuanced parts in this game (especially Missile for pvp) is honestly garbage. I'll come back to this game when from gets their head out of their ass and starts engaging with balancing to make things more fun for (at bare minimum) higher variety of playstyles. The stagger system, and the fcs range and lock on has homogenized so many builds it's actually tragic.
This is precisely why pvp becomes less fun once you hit s rank. A rank has some variety and was fun with some level of optimization but S rank is pure copy and paste meta. No variety, same build multiple times in a row. It's like a fighting game with everyone playing one or two characters out of a roster of 30. Obviously bad balance.
I don't have a problem with meta builds, it's impossible to not have a meta, the thing is, weapons in this game have 4 different roles:
1. stagger - builds up the stagger on the opponent
2. damage - deals damage to the opponent while they're not staggered
3. keeps the stagger from going down
4. punish - deals a really high amount of damage when the opponent is staggered
The problem with the zimm is that it's actually too versatile compared to anything in the game and can do all 4 of these.
The laser weapons, mainly the LRB, are only as strong as they are in PVP due to the latency imo, you can't tell me you can't dodge lasers on reaction if you could do it by sight and not compensating for the bad netcode, they should make all weapons defender sided, it is way more important to be able to dodge incoming fire than to see that it hits.
The problem with missiles in gen6 is that there's no counter to them other than dodging, which is not enough, we should have shoulder or even back mounted parts with countermeasures. (and before anyone mentions it, the jamming bomb launcher is not doing a good enough job)
PS:
Since we're discussing builds here, I'll also mention one that I despise, the "Laser Swap Build", it looks really bad how they're constantly switching weapons and I can't describe how much I dislike seeing it and how frustrating it is playing against it's almost infinite laser barrage.
I agree with zimms being good at all 4 points. They are decent at everything, they are good at damage, stagger, and their own stagger punish as well. Nothing else can do this that comes to mind.
Yeah we need shoulder extensions to make a comeback. Every AC arm part has visible shoulder sockets, and the enemy LCs in the single-player missions emit flares when you launch missiles at them, so the architecture is in place. I think we can theorized that shoulder extension parts were cut from the game.
@@7stringringer I'll keep my hopes up that shoulder extensions are going to be added in an expansion
You’re right I don’t want to play meta builds and I did stop playing PvP cause I don’t want to play meta builds just because you find them to be cool looking I think they look wrong you can say they’re fun to play but I’m sorry I find the majority of meta builds and not just this game any game even to be extremely boring and predictable and I want to have fun if I got to trade my enjoyment to even see a win just cause I followed some guide with little effort I rather play another game
In my case its less hating Meta builds, and more wanting to see more unique builds, I still remmber one lunatic that runs around on PC with near full basho frame and nothing but a chainsaw. on paper its a simple win via kite but that Mfer has gotten damn good a rushing people down with fist and if they stagger you unless your running TA you are fcked. Thats of the kind of stuff i prefer to fight the weird stuff that makes you think.
You presume TrashPanda?
Can we try a tournament where we ban zimms and LRBs please? Lets just see what player engagement is like and gauge player turnout.
Even if you think zimms are balanced, they are clearly detering new players from wanting to continue with pvp, that is shrinking this community. Lets try a ban tournament and see where it goes. There is nothing to lose in just trying it.
Can’t say I really agree with much of the sentiments expressed in this video. If a lot more of the parts in this game were even close to where the top-dog parts are (which From is thankfully trying to remedy from what I can tell) then I wouldn’t have an issue with the meta; because it would be diverse, in a game where having diverse choices in your mech’s design is at focus.
It’s been getting better, but I’m definitely not the only one who’s sick of running into the same meta ranked-climber builds for months now.
If casual matchmaking were a thing as well, and people weren’t outwardly punished for losing, then it probably wouldn’t make such a big divide amongst player opinions in regards to meta builds. Probably a lot less disdain for meta builds if losing to them meant nothing.
I know I’m definitely tired of playing an AC that I threw together and found fun, only to find it totally dumpstered in ranked, because I didn’t feel like waiting 15mins to try and lobby up in customs.
I rode the bvo hype train until it derailed and burst into flames after the viento nerf. the meta game is bound to shake up and everyone should experiment with builds outside of their comfort zone to keep the inspiration flowing...but c'mon man, zimms are that one guy who's never invited but always shows up.
From the looks of it, it seems the comments take issue less about the power of the meta itself and more the lack of build diversity and resulting creativity as a consequence.
That, and while some meta setups like Zimmshield do have tech and skill to them, someone not running a meta setup has to study more to face those matchups. This limits creativity, especially if you're trying hard on the ladder.
And, I'll be honest, even if the frames and paintjobs are different, a player will definitely get sick of seeing the same weapon loadouts over and over.
Especially for PVP cosplayers that got into this for cosplaying their favorite mechs and trying to play them in PVP.
Well, if someone brought their biped LCA Freedom Gundam cosplay, or their heavyweight pilebunker Alteisen, a Zimmshield or tank boi running them over isn't really the experience they signed up for. Especially on repeat.
I don't think so much the quality of a double zimm build is the problem as much as the quantity of it.
Also, they can extend a stagger, which, in my opinion no weapon should be able to do. If they took its ability to extend stagger away I think people would complain less about them
It doesn't make you bad
It just means you don't have to work that hard to win
12:59-13:50 because people don’t want to play the same handful of builds that they either don’t like or are tired of running. I didn’t buy AC6 to play a scuffed fighting game, I bought a mech action game with an emphasis on build-crafting a war machine suited to my style of fighting as many of the older games did. I feel your fundamentally missing the point that guys like me get tired of how AC6 plays because while we aren’t opposed to being garaged check in the sense that we have a natural counter the concept of losing before the fight started because I didn’t magically know my enemies set up and counter pick makes me not wanna play. And if the answer to that is “pick a meta build” I can safely say most people aren’t going to because they may as well not have the garage at that point and just be given a fighting game screen.
My issue with AC6 meta builds is they prioritize low-effort strategies and rely heavily on hardlock. Mastering meta builds seems more about timing than movement, mainly due to hardlock. It adds too much consistency and lets players focus on other things much easier. In previous AC games, kiting like this wouldn't be possible. Hardlock and your hitbox is the entire screen? Jesus! Also, it almost feels like cheating when someone can insta-guard two charged cannons or block dual earshots with a pulse shield. (wtf is that shield made of? Lol!) You can never catch them from behind because of hardlock. Lastly, Zimms work as both stagger and punish weapons, just like LRB.
AC6 is the first AC game on pc. This matters because keyboard and mouse has far, FAR better camera controls as your camera moves exactly as your mouse does.
Thats not the case with controllers, they turn the camera at a fixed speed, wich is how older gen worked, why it was a skill to keep enemies within your targeting.
Thats however trivial for a mouse and keyboard player so hardlock was necesary to give controller players a chance to compete. Its why when you do see keyboard and mouse players, they arent playing hard locked.
@Talon323 I think hardlock implementation in ACVI was done poorly. Piloting an AC is supposed to be demanding, requiring the player to manage every detail, but it feels like they’ve compromised on this "To appeal to a broader audience." Hardlock, in my opinion, is essentially a built-in aimbot, and even with the slight lock-on speed bonus in softlock, hardlock just overshadows it entirely.
Controls on mouse and keyboard are typically superior, but not on ACVI. Hardlock even up to 350m? I mean really? It almost feels like we’re being pushed toward a simplified 2D experience with the game’s current mechanics. I’m not even sure what a better approach would’ve been, but I think there should be a way to keep that fine control without sacrificing the depth of piloting skill. Sadly, I suspect we'll see this or some form of hardlock again in the future and another stagger system.
@@Metallah23 Hardlock is a necesary evil. Yeah they probably could and should tweak some numbers to better balance it, but since its also there to appeal to the souls audiance I doubt any drastic changes will be made and in 1v1 scenarios hardlock will be the go to for controller players going forward.
@@Talon323 well in fourth gen they got around this by giving you parts where you could destabilize your AC and actually get them to turn faster in a certain direction.
@@Talon323 hard lock is not a necessary evil. You could just lock the turning speed of the AC no matter what input you're on. Would it feel weird on mouse to have locked in turning speed yeah but you'd get used to it. Especially if you had parts that major turning speed higher but sacrificed another areas. Or tuning systems that allows you to turn faster or like in four answer where you could destabilize using certain parts called stabilizers to allow your AC to turn faster in the direction that you intend to turn faster in.
I HATE how little diversity there is.
An almost infinite quantity of possibilities and there are just 2 viable ways to play the game.
This game has all the tools to reward creativity and yet all it does is punish it...
my problem with stagger extension is the window where you can do it. You can satgger someone, do a 360 in front of them and still get it
I miss the skill expression of verdict day. RIP
I’ll still take armored core 6 pvp for not making my eyes and ears bleed
@@SageSea1weak
@@SageSea1thats what makes it exhilarating, ill take those damned wanrings over the flacid silent non immersion of ac6
@@defuncthusky6649 sounds like you like ac5 generation over the older gens too, then. For which you must be punished!
@@SageSea1 ive played gen 1, gen 2, gen 3, gen 4, and abit of gen 5. All are good but they atleast had good warnign sounds. Armored core 6 strips that away for false modernism. And ac5 by far was the most mechanically intensive game and was more enjoyable than ac4 on a deeper level
Love how no one complained about kites being the most boring fight in the game. And makes people off meta heavy Ls almost unplayable.
They act like knowing how to use a shield is so hard like you don't have durability and zimms to help you. Without meta they'll all MT pilots
You know, if this was SOTE, the fan base would chastise you for not "using what the game gives you".
@@inanefabas4402sote fans are stupid and when it comes to pvp and a lot more builds work and don’t directly hard counter each other in that game
Semi-related, but does Zimmerman need the stagger extension capability? Feels like overkill.
I think stagger extension is fine, it's the fact zimmerman can be carried by everyy weight class of AC. if they increased it's weight and made having two zimmermans need better load limit stats then I'd argue it could be balanced
@@shizzy7480 then powerbaka would come back
@@FerionXpower baka would be the only option* My friend
@@FerionX It would further kill it actually. I'm advocating for a "weight" increase. I want people to think twice before just slapping two of them on every weight class in the game. If they where heavier you would need to optimize carrying them on a AC that isn't a stick figure or a walking tank. Imagine being able to slap two KRSVs on every weight class in the game without specing into frame parts and internals, thats the current state of zimmerman. Has great stagger build up and burst damage while weighing the equivalent to a feather. It's the reason powerbaka spawned in the first place, zimmers had such a low cost of investment you could put on the HW frame parts with a rat catching booster. I'd even argue the weight nerf would bring light to haldman builds, would rather see Powerhaldman 20's than the former
The whole game outside of pvp is about exploring options and having the freedom to do so. Right now that concept doesn’t exist in pvp for most folks. I’d argue if it did this super dope and intricate game would be getting a lot more traction. Running a meta build doesn’t exclusively make a player bad. Duh. Having such egregious meta “card game” esq counters IS absolutely terrible for the game. It’s been terrible for every high intensity pvp game I’ve ever played. Do not defend that shit if you want this game to stay alive. Ultimately FROMSOFT is just bad at pvp balancing. That’s it. It’s killing the longevity of their games and should be more often criticized in general but ESPECIALLY with ac6 (with how intricately complex this game is I get that it’s probably extremely hard but still). I just want more people to play and I really don’t think defending the status quo is gonna do anything of the sort.
Too many people in the community are weirdly precious about critiquing the game’s design and/or FromSoft. Just last week Striker himself put out a video questioning the logic behind the 1.07.2 changes, but instead of following that line of thought into questioning whether FromSoft has any kind of vision for how they want to balance AC6, he immediately turns around and blames it on players for not using one of the 6 pre-approved cookie cutter builds.
The answer should be obvious. If a build archetype is that 'optimal' so as to be branded 'meta' then surely the build has some ability to carry you, unless it's one of those really hard to use builds that takes a dedicated player to bring out the best of it. So yes, even if only by allowing you to spend effort elsewhere other than perfect piloting, a build can carry you to some degree.
Well you see heres the thing, builds can carry you meta aside.
There are non meta tank builds that sure have a skill ceiling, competitive players yknow, but have a skill floor of bumper trigger bumper trigger bumper trigger assault boost trigger trigger. There are meta characters and such that mean next to nothing for casual in other games, and like you said with skill intensive builds in this game.
there are pubstomping choices that mean nothing in the meta, like sniper in dota for a long time.
I mean look at Little Mac and Gannondorf in smash ultimate. Those two characters STOMP casual players but are almost always at the bottom of tier lists when looking at the game competitively
@@notimportant768some of the most carried playerbases are offmeta, like half the double melee ppl out there 😭
Hi Striker. New to the channel.
Just watched the whole video. Your opinion does make sense, it not because losing to meta build people gets infuriating, its the variety of playstyles. Ill remind you not all are obsessed in PVP builds, people want to see other builds other than zimmerman combo.
Plus you addressing this means single rankers are dealing the same problem right now. A to S rank single match nearly all opponents are meta build, people want the feeling of the DAY 1 game, PVP build for fun, now they are just happy with how high of a rank in their build gets them.
You should see not all players are mechanical inclined in gaming, nor they are good at swapping in-game.
Just consider the idea we just entered stagnation in build-crating because we are working with limited parts and rebalancing game regulations is soon not gonna cut it.
A good example is the IB-C03W1: WLT 011, which was buffed 2 consecutive times. Means they are going buffing other build variety.
Sorry to say your 50/50 on this argument and later down the line they just gonna say no, will not stay for long or outright quit the match with META players.
if Meta players loses interest because nobody wants to match with them in PVP.
Sidenote: i hope they add other PVE or PVPVPVE mode this game does need casual gamers to breathe new life to the game.
That post is a straight up bad take, but jumping off that to talk about meta hate is just as wild imo.
People complain there’s 6 viable competitive builds in a game with infinite options, precisely because the point of the game is to “make a build.” The idea that “these frame parts are wrong and therefore the build is trash” shouldn’t be a thing; buildcrafting should be flexible enough to accommodate a wide range of frames and customizations even with limited weapons.
The problem is inflexible mechanics like AB and ACS that automatically invalidate tons of parts and playstyles. The game is barely a year old and the PVP playerbase has died faster than anything I can remember from previous generations, simply because of how unbalanced of a mess it is. And that’s saying nothing of issues like the insultingly bad netcode for a 2023 release.
I really wish content creators would spend more time discussing obvious flaws like the lack of build diversity and how they could be improved, instead of trying to justify or minimize them.
14:28 fine. I’ll be a meta slave. And I will only stop once I’m in the top 20. My name is, Skibidi Sigma. And if I do make it to top 20, I will be going back to my medium weight flame thrower build.
I'm jealous. I wish i could enjoy this game. I'm an armored core vet and it used to be one of my favorites. But this game feels so empty even when I win.
Ngl, seeing a Reddit post about how using meta makes you a loser and turning it into a 28 min rant against it, is kinda crazy. It's just some guy, that disagrees with you, that meta builds are not hard to play. They are not wrong, he can have his opinion but making a long video about it drawing a bunch of people's attention to it, is borderline setting up a hate bridage, which I know the AC community is really good at.
I'm using as an excuse to talk about it. Its not the whole reason the video was made
@@strikerhutassa Then what was the reason because it sure looks that way dude.
@@blaze4668 The reason was that I have a series on my channel where I show off the current meta builds. Used the post as an intro to talking about and showing off the current best build in the game. Doing LRBshield next
@@strikerhutassa but dude you went into a rant about exact parts and compared them to magic when they are so much different. Magic is a card game with text set in stone. When ac6 has so many different variables its ridiculous. I could take this Zim set up and kite if I wanted to, now it won't be really effective but if I wanted to I could. You're so focused on what's on paper that you don't think about individual human play style or skill. The post I made was more about using a particular build doesn't mean you're good at the game. Example being if me and you fought a 100 times using the exact same builds and I beat you 90/100 then that would mean I have more skill. You took it into "this made me so mad" because it's not the exact build that got the name in the first place aka bvo/duck blade. If I take the exact weapons you have and put them on a different frame it'll still be a duel zim build, it may not be the exact part for part but it still plays the same role.
Nah, fuck that. You can argue the rant is unnecessary or unhinged or whatever, but if you're posting an opinion on not just the internet, but fucking REDDIT, you opened the door for however many people to respond to you however they like into infinity.
Also, if we're being honest, any community on the internet will have it's most unhinged members do unhinged shit and I know you know that, so idk why you would even attempt to single out the Armored Core community lmao
I’m one of the top players on Xbox and your off your rocker if you think a meta build doesn’t make a bad player better, armored core has always been 50% skill 50% build, but Zimm shield is busted for those who do not know how to deal with it and that’s based on your build. Everyone is striving to create there version of a masterpiece build in order to be able to fight anyone but with so much diversity the game has checks and balances. But if your top players don’t use a meta build and instead there own created build most get dog walked that’s why all platforms currently have false rankers now, once the meta is almost none existent then we can start boxing and clashing like we are supposed to instead of people running in a 1v1, it’s just my personal preference but I have never used, Zimms, earshot, javelin beta, or any crutch weapon to get a ranked dub I fight you straight up as a lightweight main,also why don’t we have 2v2, FS needs to get there stuff together.
striker… this video is a little bit atrocious in my opinion. first off it’s not that people hate meta in mtg but there is a reason several mtg cards are banned between formats. do we need a ban? no. but saying people don’t dislike meta cards in magic is not true. many things in magic are way too good. equally i think that defending meta builds in the way you are is very confusing. to me, the entire game is about making a build and piloting it well (i think we agree here). Not every build needs to work, but i don’t think that we should be defending the best in slots for certain builds as it quite literally reduces creativity. If this game is about having fun with your dinky build that works well why would that good player stay and get eaten alive in S rank because what was fun to them can’t exist anymore. I have seen this in more than one competitive game and I can’t understand the logic behind it. but, these are my thoughts and I would hopefully like to understand eventually. a video clarifying what you mean by your points in the video or adding more details would be great! I certainly hope at least some people love this game, even if it is the very top percent of players.
and it isn’t that I hate meta builds or people that play them. I feel like certain parts can just dominate and make this game either over at garage (which imo is boring) or have only a couple builds that are genuinely worth using… that feels really weird and very “if you aren’t doing well just use the good part” which as i said throws creativity in the garbage.
@@themothpope1720 thank you for also echoing this. You said it way better than I ever could. As someone who is played many a competitive game I understand the needs for balance for bill diversity for play diversity. Too much of the same makes the game stale simple as that
@@themothpope1720I just want to put it out there that I'm one of those players that make something that works best for me and I tried to do my best to Pilot it to its Max ability and make Minor adjustments along the way but the major thing is learning how to pilot something well over using a cheap trick tactic, Meta's can make a game boring or even just not even fun since the creativity is gone and people just encourage the meta this, so this cause that.
Trust me, I get some pretty bad comments about my stuff but at the end of the day, it works for me and thanks for the feedback is what I always gotta say.
But I love what I have and I would rather get better at it, give them a good fight but never change a thing but my ability to do it better next time. 🤌🏼⚔️⛈️⚔️
Ive always said fuck the meta, i play what i want
No amount of shilling or meta glazing will save this game’s dying PVP scene. If you can’t see why people aren’t having fun I don’t know what to tell you.
I got soo many names for this game flick core 6, build core 6, check core 6,. Like im fine with hard lock but why did they make AB soooo spammable? Like AC 2 had the issue where overboost was very spammable and it was braindead. AC 2 you still had to aim but still you got in too easy. I hope going forward they put in a mechanic limiting Assault Boost. Like a overheat mechanic where it goes on cool down or you get slower. Like there needs to be a downside to every mechanic.
🚨Long winded post alert: Great video!
I think the problem is Armored Core is an appealing game based on the hundreds of customization options, fashion, mobility, etc. And yet we’re locked into a handful of builds that are viable. I don’t think that is sustainable in attracting a consistent player base.
I personally feel the stagger system limits the meta even more. I was only a gen 4 player in the past, so I realize my perspective is limited. But I wish this game had shoulder weapons like AC4 or even more core expansion options that added new playstyles and functions to the meta. The current meta builds feel too templatized and prescriptive for my liking. If I want to play a game where everyone’s build is the same, I’d go play an FPS or something. I don’t want my build being labeled a frog, duck, biscuit or whatever the names are LOL.
AC6 was easily my most anticipated game in over 10 years. I didn’t expect to stop playing so soon due to lack of build viability. Constantly boosting into someone’s face with shotguns and multiple laser cannons just isn’t appealing to me.
That said, I may try a meta build out of my sheer love for the game. But my hope is Armored Core 6.5 will eventually improve upon what I believe is a base game with potential to be something great!
I believe this is an issue too, but the player base venomously attacks any critics towards the game. I've seen alot of targeted harassment towards anyone who thinks that the game isn't perfect. Game is never gonna reach it's potential cause of people like that just want 1% of parts to be good to they can get their easy "garage skill" wins, put them in any other game that demands the bare minimum of needing to control looking at the general direction your opponent to deal damage and they crumple. Added some of these people, and generally they don't play anything that demands effort, or requires getting better outside of somthing you can just Google search an answer for.
Im ok with AC6 not having optional and extension/shoulder parts. It is a whole new template for an AC game, they clearly killed it with the story, missions and mechanics, exposed this franchise to millions of new players, so I surmise they'll review feedback from AC6 to make AC6.5 better. That being said, I think the major issue is the addition of the stagger mechanic. AC4 PvP had a lot of cat and mouse action. Yes there was something of a rush to wear down the opponent's Primal Armor to swing for big damage for aggressive builds, but the emphasis on quick turning, positioning, selective firing of weapons, etc took priority. You only had one match instead of best 2/3 against an opponent, so matches took a lot longer and felt more tactical. On the contrary, a lot of AC6 meta builds are basically in a rush to AB up to you, wail on you, stagger you, and then wail on you some more to finish you off. Or get AP lead and run out the clock. It feels like there's a lot less player interaction, especially if you run into a bad matchup where the build carries you so much. 4th and 5th gen felt a lot less rock-paper-scissors than 6th gen does, at least IMO.
@@mohanrambassit3039 I agree 100%.
Players aren't quitting ranked because "they reach higher ranks and their build falls off". They quit because the higher ranks are full of a handful of meta builds which are simply not fun to play against. Rats that get AP lead and spend 2 mins running away are not fun to play against. Zimm/LRB-Shield builds are not fun to play against. Skybox hugging tetrapods are not fun to play against. There is limited or often no opporunity for counter play, you're far too likely to be "build checked" by a handful of the same builds in a game that's supposed to be about build variety. The game (or more realistically it's future iterations) needs drastic changes to disincentivize obnoxious playstyles (least of which being more anti-missile tools because the jamming launcher alone just doesn't cut it) otherwise ranked will remain a toxic wasteland and the player numbers will continue to dwindle, but if that's what you want by all means keep telling people to "just play a meta build".
“Limited or no opportunity for counter play” is really the key issue here.
The game’s two central mechanics-AB and ACS-are far too inflexible for counterplay. One shoots you in a straight line while buffing damage and negation, while the other is an uncounterable punish window that can only be negated once with expansion. It’s a fundamental design issue, and I worry that it’ll carry over to newer iterations of this franchise unless people critique it more loudly instead of glazing and blaming players for not adhering to the meta.
I’m more of build for fun over build for meta. Reason why is I feel most meta builds are just copy&paste of the same build rather bland (even if you give said build a different coat of paint) and rather see different builds with parts and weapons of all kinds being used, giving it a breath of fresh air over a stagnant pool of parts this everyone.
I feel the same, if you play meta your not "the guy" your just a lesser non original guy
@@dad_uchiha1707 as if playing a bad build is any more original... Especially when they're a majority...
@@m.p4603 atleast they went their own way and not become part of the herd
@@dad_uchiha1707 I'd say the herd are the ones who keep screeching and clutching their pearls whenever someone wishes to play a good build
@@dad_uchiha1707Honestly, I've found that "anti meta" folks are just more toxic and insecure than meta players.
Honestly, I would argue that having a meta isn't bad, what's bad is the fact that it lacks variety and couterplay options, my biggest gripe with AC6 is the lack of depth in certain aspects of customization, I wish we had more parts and tunning options for said parts. Not only that, the stagger system, while a nice addition, feels like it made weapons like assault rifles and smg's obsolete.
Dude i just now actually watched the whole video. I never said playing meta makes you a loser. I didnt have a issue with anyone playing any kind of build what so ever. The post was about use your brain and develop some skill in the game. You're on here telling people to use meta and forget everything else which is worse than what I was saying. Which yes I stand by me saying playing meta doesn't make you a good player. Someome could take that same build you are using against you using it and stomp you because they are better at the game. Then you tell me to go get help? You literally said in my reddit post that I had a attitude but on here as soon as you beat the power bake or wharever you call it, you immediately got cocky asf. You say I'm upset with people when the post was literally rage bait and then you made a 30 min video on how a 30 sec game play clip pissed you off so bad you had to go on a rant. Then you assumed the match was a ranked match when it wasn't and said I was being toxic. How exactly was I toxic? By saying a build is meta? By saying meta don't make you good? By saying it was so easy i was bored? The first was an opinion and the second is fact. You apologized to me in your discord that only your discord seen. If you really wanna apologize then why don't you make another video doing so because the world can see your video but not your discord which I was invited to because one of your members was on reddit and seen how toxic people were being. Plus it's such a coincidence that I have clips posted on reddit where people were saying crazy things to me and the clips are still up and you can go see them for yourself but as soon as you make a video of that post it got taken down. Maybe if you actually looked into why I made that post and talked to me instead of making a rant video trying make me look like some hateful person you would of understood why I made the post in the first place. Btw if you consider me being toxic towards the people that were toxic in the first place towards me is bad then you need to go get help because thats like saying no it's ok if someone bullys you just ignore them and to that I would say f-that! Don't start no sht there won't be no sht for real! So don't come at me with a holier-than-thou attitude when you and people in your discord have said toxic things and even bragged about being toxic in the comments on my reddit post. So take a look in the mirror and you go get help because no one in thier right mind should be getting that pissed over a 30 second clip of a video game. Had to edit because I seen how your spreading lies. On your stream you say I told people playing meta makes you a bad player and that's a straight up lie but nice try dude. Funny how in your stream and videos you've throw out these assumptions when the things you're saying I never said so take your apology and shove it dude. You're a two faced dude talking trash right after you wanted to "make sure there was no bad blood" in your exact words.
Having stepped back and looked at this situation both on Reddit and this video I think I’ll be unsubscribing. Striker is cooked out of his mind.
@@chuckec yeah he fabricated lies saying I said things I didn't in his stream and video. Then proceeded to be toxic and arrogant like what he was accusing me of.
I'm impressed of how many people actually want to create different builds and are veering away from a lot of the communities because of certain toxicity and comments from some of the individuals.
I won't lie, I've noticed it on occasion from some of the players that basically just downplay your builds and call it ass and really don't give great feedback other than playing Meta's and telling you that you're using s*** parts.
I've had more fun playing my builds and have tried those meta types and honestly, I can't stand them.
I even wonder how people win on their own with them but yeah, the creativity and lack of real support to skill playing different varieties is something these guys seem to ignore and glorify their cookie cutter builds and styles.
It. Is. Stale.
Winning isn't everything after awhile but to some of them, thats more important than being fun or inviting.
Another reason why I enjoy the group that we play with very much.
This whole meta thing to me is boring as hell.
I think the frustration comes from the fact that in order to start understanding what is "meta" you need to start developing encyclopedic knowledge of all the frame parts in the game and their roles. And if you don't do that, then you're just signing up to get garage checked. So you do all this insane research on all these different parts and analyze why they're good, but you still end up concluding that there's a handful of parts that are obviously head and shoulders above the rest. Thats kind of a bummer. It would be cool if it was harder to "choose wrong," for the lack of a better term.
As a HAL 826 main, I'm fairly disappointed in all the different meta builds. I can't spend a single ranked PvP match before meeting a LRB build or a zimmie, along with other double weapons.
I really wish people would be more creative rather than use the "monkey see monkey do" builds that are crawling everywhere nowadays...
Really wish other people would use the presets too, as it adds (for me) more of a fun vibe rather than getting clapped because of some braindead meta users...
Preset fights for promotion phases would be fun, as a way of forcing a pilot of showing some skills.
Ps: This is not criticism towards all meta players, only the ones who keep using the same stuff over and over again (especially you, shield-zimmies and LRB spammers).
Striker, the main problem with a "deck" is that "choice" is too small. We have: 3 cqc kings(zimm+lrb+etsu), 2 kinetic kite kings(harris+ransetsu), whole rocket setup to be king of rating(JP Lamm). And nothing other. There is no personality behind those setups. Somebody can say about paint jobs, but, meh, its only time you want to spend on it. Pillager said, that game is 8/10 of build and only 2/10 of skill, what is true. For your knowledge: people so tend to some patterns, that I, actually, hit lamms in thiers skyscraper race with Earshot. You know, with Earshot, thing fly for 2 whole seconds.
depends, did you make a build with some meta options? if so then no. or did you look up what the meta builds are and copied them? if so then yes.
100% this
the best build in anything should never be the easy one to play it should be the hardest to play and then skill should be the factor after that.
I don't mind Zimmerman shield and I'm now almost strictly a double melee player on PlayStation. Can't do anything about it so I don't complain and I wouldn't do anything about it either. Basically I choose to get checked in the garage by choice. It's peoples mindsets in video games I think they should change not meta. I'm having fun win or lose idc. I play to have fun but if someone has fun by winning all the time by using meta builds then all glory to them. Is there some things I find annoying in AC6 yes it's dual laser cannons 😅. But can't complain about it cause I have a freedom Gundam build that uses them. Also around 4:37 I disagree skill is 70% build is 25% and 5% is your connection for the internet. I've played against players that have are laggy to the point if I wonder if lag switching is a thing in this game. Good video tho 😊.
Yes, the answer to the title is always yes.
good one
Short answer to the question is, YES. Long answer is, this video.
Honestly I think the only problem I have with meta builds is when I’m just trying to have some matches in regular lobbies and I’m just trying to mess around with different fun builds. I just expect to see metas if I’m queuing ranked because people want to win, but when that just moves into casual matches is when I get a little annoyed. I also almost exclusively play light mid or straight up lightweight builds though so there are a lot of just bad match ups for me, but the heavy weight and especially tanks legs just feel bad to pilot to me personally. Side note, a really fun build that I’ve been fucking with recently is dual ducketts (or the smaller ones I forget the name) with one shoulder Gatling with a bunk punish. Doesn’t feel super strong because you can miss the charge bunk pretty easily because of spacing or sometimes just because of netcode, but overall really fun cqc build.
I have more respect for builds that are honest. But I can respect meta builds if they took the time to be good at it.
What makes meta builds dishonest? Everyone knows what they do, you aren't about to get hit by "laser turret knowledge check #869". Zimm shield is literally the most honest build in the game.
@@gengarisnotinsmash... copying a build isn't an honest build. It's not your own. It's not that hard to comprehend.
Seeing the same 4-5 meta builds in Ranked is frustrating enough, which is also exacerbated by netcode which shatters the moment a player connects to another player on the other side of the world.
Like dude, I want to make cool builds - not get funnelled into meta builds which at this point is becoming souless. Also, your comparison of AC6 to deckbuilding games is also moot because those games only has to worry about RNG / chance and strategy rather than other things such as latency, player reactions, map selection and cheating such as lag switching.
Like some people have said already, zimms are simply too powerful and versatile which are then exacerbated by latency.
Playing meta in the a sense doesnt make them a loser, but kills variety and gameplay because it gets tiring having to face off against these builds. You have all these parts and weapons yet people try to go for the easy to learn and use builds to play. At the end of the day AC6 PVP needs some work still. Hopefully the next entry will fix it. (NETCODE PLEASE)
Copy paste meta builds nothing is interesting anymore
Yes there has to be a King. But Zimmerman has been king the ENTIRE time. It ruins the flexibility of customization which AC should be all about. A lot of possible PvP players have already left because the game plays more like Tekken fighting game with its combos and seriously lack playstyles. 99% of playstyles on the leaderboards are either Combo locking CQC or missile spam. And both of those are absolutely frustrating to play against for the vast majority of people. The player count says it all, the PvP is just not fun overall.
The very existence of meta in a game means that the game is poorly balanced. Ofc there always will be buids that perform better than others, but having 3 meta builds in a game where you can make thousands of them is crazy.
Do not encourage players to play meta, that's how you kill the game
Everyone can use Zimmies! And when everyone’s using Zimmies? *chuckles* no one will be.
I feel you Striker, I’m having fun with neo-statue and I’m so tired of people whining and complaining about it. People should just get better and not try to make the other person have less fun.
Started off the idea of playing ac6 pvp with my very own build with my very own style before ranked came out. I made my mech in several variations, made my style, and completed my mission is proving that my style works on my own with what i made. S ranked every season on PS(S1 I sat in top 40 for a while then stopped attempting to since im way more busy usually to dedicate a top 100 climb), every matchup being winnable as long as I play my best and adapt within the match.
Though everyone simply isnt like this. Some people just copy paste a build thats branded to work and get most of their wins through that alone. With such a game I think most people want to see an expression of the pilot in a build that speaks for them instead of seeing the same build with the same frame playing the same way that another that also copied the same thing plays.
But of course theres nothing inherently wrong with what someone thinks is meta. People are allowed to play what they want, but when everyone is playing the same thing it becomes a lack of expression and gets stale. Same thing with card games as a yugioh player. Sure meta is cool and all, sure running certain cards thats considered good is cool, since it isnt the WHOLE deck. But if youre running meta mirror matches back to back to back it gets pretty repetitive really fast.
This is a mech customization game and building your mech is THE core mechanic. Meta builds, counter builds, niche builds, etc. are all part of the meta game.
I just didn't play meta because it didn't look fun also everyone was doing it, i thought it eliminated build expression, which the campaign passively teaches is the real fun, but the community is weird that way, one person swears "its all about meta and in the garage" and everyone just accepts it as mecha gospel, i chose parts that felt good to pilot learned to play close but pick engagements, and def learned to pace shots, i was always between win streaks 8-10 games straight sometimes 7-6, builds def matter learning YOUR build just matters more, but yes i assume anyone who's on a meta build to not understand the nuance and danger of non meta builds
Hey Striker, AC6 was my first armoured core game after a few souls game (and massive Titanfall 2 fan so love the mechs), I loved this game and the build variety and creativity but after doing a lot of grinding in ranked to get midway through A rank, it did make me exhausted after seeing a lot of builds that were similar. The only build I have played ranked PVP with is a lightweight kite with 2 bubble guns and 2 auroras and man was it fun getting wins with that build. I had other builds that I tried in unranked and was good at but I always came back to that build because for me, getting to S Rank with something I created from scratch (I'm sure somewhere along the line someone's done the same build, but without watermelon colouring and isn't called Fruit Tingle) felt really rewarding for me. I haven't played ranked games in several months but I am keen to give it another try soon, I always jump back into the garage and create/customise my builds after updates.
The main thing I love seeing on your channel are AC players who bring strange ideas into the matches and win with them, like Dez bringing the WLT rifle, that is just a true testament to their skill. Yes I'm sure with enough practice they could be good at a meta build too, but there is something just satisfying about knowing that you came up with this build and you piloted it to perfection. So yes if someone isn't doing as well in the game without a meta build they could play meta, but remember the build variety we would possibly be missing out on if that happened. But I appreciate your honest take on the situation, and you're right in many ways the zimm shield is healthy for the game. There is always going to be a best option with the way the game is built, but I'm hoping the PVP becomes/feels like it's balanced enough that people don't feel forced to use a meta build to win.
Whenever I saw someone shoot both Zimms at the same time, I know I might have a chance to counter, but if it's someone that knows (or just somewhat) how to use them, I basically dies.
I'm the type that runs double LCA biped, nothing beats that feeling when the shots connected and vaporized an enemy lol
Are we really defending an overused, obnoxious copy paste dual zimm shield build? People can play how they want but if they teabag or act toxic after winning using a build like that we can catch hands irl
I already know its about to be a gen war sorta because i agree about the hard meta stuff i had to accept the gameplay for what they gave us now but 50% player and 50% build seems like a big stretch. I've read some of other comments already i hard agree with people being is truly not that diverse in terms of weapon options its the reason i dont play anymore the game doesn't reward my playstyle nor my expression or anybody else's i came to terms of why already its not hard meta it's really good build got me to top 40 first season (on ps4 by the way) but after that i question so much stuff about the game because I've felt like that was the peak of what i can do with my personal best build. I just stepped away because i was getting way to deep with it competitively and just stayed to designing and painting AC'S. if anyone is curious on the build its
Right arm:LRA
LEFT ARM:ETSUJEN
R BACK:HUXLEY
L BACK:P20MLT-04
FRAME:
HEAD:MIND ALPHA
CORE:HAL 826
ARMS:EPHEMERA
LEGS:MIND ALPHA
INNER:
BOOSTER:NGI 001
FCS:TALBOT
GEN:VE-20B
EXPANSION: ASSAULT ARMOR
I named it Jinx its dynamic to agro hit and run or def play
I still love striker no hate i still hope to play in one of his tournaments one day and meet everybody 😅
The answer? Yes, if you are only playing it because you read it was meta and nothing more.
Play with the stuff that feels right and fun to you! And if winning is how you have fun then find the meta that supplements and enhances how you play!
Im reading this comment sections after last Saturday tournament, these people just don’t put the work huh, I feel for you Striker
Imo the problem with dual zims is the high damage, stagger AND easy stagger extention. If it traded one of the former 2 for the other and got rid of stagger extention it would be more balanced. I don't think ranged should have stagger extension at all as it's too easy to hit
That should be reserved for melee as it requires precise timing and should be a reward for that kind of high risk high reward build.
I think there are a lot of a/s rank builds but not to many a/s rank players, i could really rant about this but I’ll keep it short, I think using a copy and paste build makes you a bad player (most the time) be original and create something you’re proud of, my entire AC6 career I’ve never once used a meta build or even a HW build and I’m in A I’m pretty proud of that!
Duals in AC6 are dumb. Its truly, some of the worst pvp. Skill has next to nothing to do with duals. Duals are a dice roll.
The Meta of AC6 is trash and unhealthy. It is absolute copium, to say Zimms are good for the game. They are not. They are mathematically busted. Its build diversity death. Your AC, is garage checked, 80% of the time.
Armored Core, fundamentally, from a mathematical and mechanics standpoint, IS A SHIT PVP GAME. Use these meta builds/setups with stat density, or lose. A lot.
If AC6 pvp was a team thing, with bot MT's, air and artillery support, maybe it could be...probably not.
PVE is fantastic, this one of my all time favorite games. The fact COOP is not a thing, is a hugely missed opportunity by Fromsoft.
Games like League of Legends, certainly have their meta, and sometimes the hard counter to your champion, is no longer a counter, because you adapted in game, and leapt at windows of opportunity. Sometimes, non-meta picks, are fucking power-houses, because your a boss with that pick.
Don’t really care about the meta as long as I’m having fun, unless my opponent starts cheating when they are losing to a build that isn’t meta while they are using meta.
Using meta with skill: NOT a loser.
Using meta while cheating: 100% a loser.
People are anti-meta because the "meta" builds are so much better than anything "off-meta", the gaps are, even after all the patches, still huge. This is turn stifles diversity and people don't like being railroaded into BiS stat spread to win matches. Its why people call this a DPS race game, or a stat-check game.
An ima be real, to reach S rank, you just need stats, you don't need that much skill because skill expression in this game is much more limited compared to something like Elden Ring. Not saying it does'nt exist, but its not the deciding factor most of the time, numbers are.
Meta is meta cause it doesnt have alot of bad matchups take for examples curved swords in dark souls 3 theyre meta but still take skill to use at a top level just because a setup is good doesnt mean it isnt beatable with off meta stuff skill still helps a ton in bad matchups you can outskill a shield player with good feints etc etc
Striker... I cannot believe you fell for the bait. But I cannot wait for you to see what the Xbox player base can dish out. 🤟😂
Heavy weights that don’t even move with Zim and LCD make the game not enjoyable. I love a good chess match. But that’s not it
The meta player=loser argument has always been a lame duck. Playing to win and building to win is always a good thing. I just hate the fact there is so little room for expression in builds. I have played lots of various mech games, some even at a high competitive level, and AC6 (especially in tourneys) just doesn't have much to bring new people in and keep them in. I felt the same way trying to break into playing SF3 3rd strike, and MVC games. Then again I enjoy playing lighter builds with a melee option and I could just be salty that the skill floor is on venus somewhere. I jump into PvP every now and again expecting to lose every time and enjoy it on occasion. Not my game I guess, but I still enjoy watching your content.
The AC6 PvP community (at least the more casual side of it) has a toxicity and elitism problem. And I know saying a PvP community has that problem is sort of like saying fire is hot, but it really has bummed me out and soured me on things somewhat. The amount of animosity I've seen thrown at any number of builds and playstyles is really obnoxious. Whether it's some sort of tank, or anything using lasers or missiles, or any sort of kiting, or whatever other random things people who don't even know what the meta is think are meta.
Too many people hate that builds matter, they don't want Armored Core they just want it to be less unique and more like so many other PvP experiences where it's all about how you play and this bitterness causes them to make irrational claims about playing a strong build meaning you don't have skill, which they could easily disprove to themselves if they actually tried it themselves. They also don't understand the creativity and decision making to even MAKE a strong build is a skill unto itself.
Ultimately as well, for a game to have a lot of build variety, which this game does, it has to allow the possibility for players to make wrong decisions and a bad build. Not every possible combination has to be good and it'd be an absurdity for them to be. And of course, not every part was even designed for PvP. Fighting another AC is just one facet of gameplay so naturally not all build styles or parts are going to excel at it.
In the words of Michigan, FINALLY! SOMEONE WITH THEIR HEAD SCREWED ON STRAIGHT!
4:20 you *absolutely* see this kind of thinking in card games and wargaming ("netlisting"), and also in tabletop RPGs ("rollplayers") which aren't even competitive, and any other hobby with player toolset customization.
Some people refuse to do PvP because their build wont work.
Whereas I refuse to do PvP because I refuse to use ugly part combos.
We are not the same 😎
P.S. It'd be real nice if PvP balance was separate from PvE balance, it really scuffs replayability (in PvE) to have to rebuild a setup because one or more parts got trash-canned due to 'overperforming in PvP'. Its been a gripe of mine since Dark Souls 2.
lightweight melee build, i choose you!
What do you think about dual zimms with dual stun needles or dual earshots. I think earshots are too slow but honestly the needles velocity give it really good tracking
Or just build something you have fun playing with meta or not
@striker Hutassa I have played this individual numerous times. He is basing this off the current S ranks 100 on Xbox ranked. We are a smaller player base so the meta becomes a grey area between consoles
@@tyjackson6509 what he doesn't know is I have meta builds but choose not to play them because they are boring. If he came to xbox I'd bunk him in a heart beat but seeing as he's hell bent I'd probably use a actual meta build against him a couple times and show him what "meta don't make you good" really means.
@28:20 “PLEASE , play your game . “
I remember in ACV when the reverse joint stability hack with shotguns was found and I thought I was was one of the best, now I relize I’m part of the reason people stopped playing right off the bat. I’ll take my responsibility but from should take theirs and keep tweaking to produce variety and unique combinations. Orrr they should update the ai to do what people are going to do. Then it really would be a “souls like” instead the gave the npc more personality than meta slaves have
By meta, do you refer to what's in the top 100? I'm not super familiar with AC tournaments and I'm only just getting serious with PvP.
If using the meta makes me a loser, so be it. Have fun getting stuck on an activity or boss I've cleared a dozen times already. So, who's really losing here? The problem with meta in games is that it becomes boring. In the end, efficiency is king. It's ironic how the goal is to play the game as little as possible while still getting a metric ton done.
I feel like the options people want open come from gundam series where melee can be as versatile as ranged & range has as much movement as melee.
Armor cored really isnt that type of mech game its more technical where gundam is more of a fighting game so idk i see where i went wrong after awhile, still come back to check things after updates but honestly wasnt for me more of a fighting game guy like gundam vs series and im okay with that but AC6 is a great game.
Meta players sucked the fun out of pvp.
This hit harder than it should be.
Me trying to follow allong knowing absolutely nothing about the PvP meta or how it's developed since the first patch or even WTF a Rat is. (Zimmermans still being top dog is pretty funny.)
About the card game meta comment. There is absolutely a large number of players in pretty much any card game you can or can't think of who will throw a fit at people for using meta decks or "netdecking" nomater if the meta is actualy toxic or not, or even if the deck in question is meta or not.
A good example I can think of is Tearlamets in Yu-Gi-Oh which was once an extremely dominant and centralizing deck that has since fallen far off due to bans and power creep. A lot of people will still give you hate for playing it regardless. and even back when it was meta. although it was incredibly centralizing to the point of almost being the only viable deck, those mirror match games were incredibly interactive and skill intensive, and not as brainless as haters tend to make meta choices out to be.
I don't play meta builds and used to hate any double zimmerman fights I had in ranked. Now with more skill and knowledge I would say zimmshield and lrb shield might be the most exciting builds to fight against in A rank. I play either meele with shield or variant of a waterstrider with shield. Of course I would have different opinion without running the shield 😅
I don’t know maybe with m&k zimmshield is boosted? but I play with controller against controllers and zimmermans are not the worst problems. Also you say that dude was using the wrong parts, but there’s a reason he picked those parts, the way you build the AC just looking at the stats, you miss that there are gameplay changes related. You wonder why he’s using abbot? Abbot is definitely right for that medium short range prediction you would lose it with ocellus.
Nobody will care if you have a problem with the meta. People will certainly care if you become a problem for the meta.
I don't really hate players using meta builds(unless they get disrespectful about it), I mean it's always gonna be part of any multiplayer game really so it's to be expected. It's just annoying tho seeing the same builds tho over and over and over, and with how easy a build can get build checked really kills the diversity with how miserable it can be.
I wish I could play more pvp. Global region and my game time isn't the best. I still try to play
It irritates me that Zimms were never nerfed once, a 20-25% fire rate nerf would be a step in the right direction if they can’t bother touching the damage or impact
I just want my middleweight RJ bazooka melee build to be decent again… 😞
They were directly nerfed in patch 1.02 and nerfed indirectly by 1.07 with the oscellus nerf
@ I personally don’t think it was nearly enough, I still see them on the regular and they make every other build useless
Playing meta dosn’t make you a loser, but it could be farther to the winning aspect of games, unlike the fun part that people prefer.
I am sorry to say I’m not playing ac6 until I get my hands back on my pc. Playing this game on McDonald’s wifi with no more than 40 frames rlly tanks PvP 💀
Yes
6:32 yeah I got cooked by meta and didnt log on again hahaha still love the game tho