I have both the E77 and E80, along with their matching amplifiers, the N77 and N80. It would be great if you could do a comparison of those two. When these pre amps and amps were new, there was no way I could have afforded them (their retail prices were more than my first couple of cars!) The N77 with its huge "monster meters" is a real conversation starter; both amplifiers are hugely powerful. To my ears, the E80/N80 combo sound better, so that is what I use daily. The build quality of these particular ES pieces are so far beyond what is sold today its staggering. Enjoyed the video.
Great video. This comparison was very revealing. I'm sure the 77 sounds good too but the 80 has to be better. The difference in layout and quality is very noticeable when looking inside. Thank you for showing this and for all of your videos. It really helps knowing these things and shows what to look for when looking for good vintage gear.
i had the top pre with the amp on the other video with huge power meters conected to a very high-end speakers from Cerwin-vega ,mine the rubber menbrane didn´t rotten but i sold them to buy better ones, when new the ES system did had a very good sound ,but i tried next nakamichi and ended up buying a pioneer URUSHI system ,no problems or reapirs needed since mid 90´s some components were bought in second hand, with a pair of mid 80´s Mission Argonaut MKII 200watts at 4ohms i´m very happy with it, i think you have other video showing some URUSHI components ,i own the power amplifier without those meters in red ,the pre is the same you showed
thanks a lot, it is really awesome to see how careful they did the layout. some vendors & engineers should open more often vintage gear to learn something about quality!!
No comparison, really. Preamps that offer video switching allocate funds away from the audio section. Video switching back then was very new, thus very expensive to produce and market. What’s under the hood speaks for itself. The 77 has its wiring haphazardly strewn about, whereas with the 80, everything has it’s place. I’m sure the measured performance of the 80 is better as well. The 77 may have more features to offer, but like in this case, more features will not always equal better execution or performance. That’s not to say the 77 isn’t probably a good preamplifier - it’s just not in the same league. As far as I know, the same can be said about the difference between the 80ES and the 90ES. Thanks for putting these videos together. They really shed some light onto just how good many of these older audio products are. And I agree, TheVintageKnob is a fantastic resource and museum. I just wish the original creator still owned it and added to it. Perhaps you can start a “museum” of sorts on your site 😉 much like what you’re doing here. PS: please include the model numbers in your title or description. It may be hard for a 77 or 80 owner to find this video otherwise. Connor
Obviously the design teams for the two had very different work orders, but a very similar budget. The 80 had to go neck in neck with the audiophile heavies of the time, the 77 was to show their technical prowess. Unfortunately, as an audiophile, when you look just at the phono boards you realize that for music there is no contest. And in the real world the 77 can't hold a candle to the 80. The 80 and his matching amp are definitely in my top 5 (the list starts with Harman Citations X-1 and X-2).
Hi Fernando once again a great review..You always talk good things regarding well made quality PC boards I am in the process upgrading my Amplifier from a Musical A3 Fidelity Amp and Pre to a Luxman they have a reputation for high quality PC boards.. can you explain why high quality PC boards are so important please..?
Hi Fred. Technically they don't make much of a difference with regards to sound. However its nice when a manufacturer uses super high quality component to build. It does make it easier to us to service as the traces are more resistant to re-soldering and replacing components. Older boards tend to sag, specially the larger ones which can lead to broken traces.
"S-Video, even worse". No, S-Video was an improvement on composite albeit obsolete today, regardless. Nevertheless, I enjoy these vids so thanks for doing them. The 80 definitely looks to be the better of the two units: it seems to be of higher quality and is audio-only rather than containing the now obsolete video switching of the 77ESD. That said, the matching power amp for the 77 series is a lovely looking thing with those big meters, whilst the N80ES power amp is just a big lump and not particularly attractive-looking. According to the Vintage Knob the non "D" version of the 77 was available in North America....
Sorry for all the questions. What camera / phone are you using. It seems to work very well for your videos. Ps I am based in France. If I am ever in the states I’ll pop in and explore your shop. It looks fantastic. Do you stock/repair or might you do a feature on Stax headphones?
Great Job to me the internal dac of The 7 Series would of been a hit back n its day I'm sure looked pretty impressive for its time period , those chips are decent also BB 56p . But i get where your coming from being Pure Analog - But Just a Volume control is a Purest Mode 😆 Got a good ? For you when you have the time
@@SkyFiAudio Yeah over Japan they got all the good stuff !! Denon 3500G ? My ? Is I own a lot of gear and speakers about a dozen of each vintage/new-age and even as a kid about 15 years old I noticed their was like this 'Majic Volume' setting where the speakers and amp pairing sounded their best if i turned volume up or down it didn't sound its optimum . Its like input matches output perfectly at its best its like Volume Synergy and its normally between .5 watt to 2 watts were the performace is just right , I have always tried to find a name for this !! I even know a guy that has no Volume control and his amp puts out almost 1 watt , but he says volume control adds a lot of noise crazy world But all my setups have this Volume Synergy something that never gets talked about . 😥
@@SkyFiAudio thanks for the feedback on a different pre then the ones here. I have had the outcome for about a year and really am liking it. Keep up these videos. I really really enjoy them. The one about the pioneer CD player was insane! Copper heaven!
@@SkyFiAudio another question is how do you think these vintage preamps like the two sonys and my adcom stack up against modern preamps and in what price range?
I would go for the 80. The video and DAT stuff is not my cup of tea. I would be interested in a comparison between such an old DAC with a modern one chip DAC though.
While true the C91 has separate transformers the parts are cheap, it is poorly laid out and it is a rats nest in there. I have both and the Sony preamps, especially the E80ES is truly a high end piece. Lots of high quality parts with build quality on par with their 7 series cd players
@@OscarHernandez-xx2je parts in Pioneer are not cheap for sure. C91 has high grade nichicon Muse for audio, ucon polypropylene caps used in Hiend amps, soshin foil capacitors used also in Pioneer Elite cd Player, matsushita polypropylene capacitors. So no, parts are not cheap. Sony is much worse built. Hiend preamp should have separate transformers for each channels, best preamps has that design. But not cheap sony
I agree the C91 is a horrible mess inside but the parts quality is consistent with the rest of the series. It kinda makes by brain hurt when I look inside.
Nice video, as always. Thank you for it. I have been involved in music, video, LPs, tape, CD, SACD, High-end etcetera for 40 years. Also had everything from Sony to Philips to, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Akai, Sensui, and so on. I've had almost everything from Sony. But I also enjoyed every brand. For the last 10 years I have been with Musical Fidelity KW Tulip. And Monoblocks from, AVM AMP GUNTERMANIA. And speakers from Kef Model 4.2 Reference. What I do regret is that you don't actually find any videos of these speakers, Kef Model 4.2 Reference. These play so beautifully, especially with the powerful Monoblocks. It would be nice if I could see them on your channel sometime. Who knows ever. Long live our hobby. Thanks again for your nice videos and explanations. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and of course continue with what you are doing. Peace and love from all over the earth... ✌🏾🌍😘💯 %
I have both the E77 and E80, along with their matching amplifiers, the N77 and N80. It would be great if you could do a comparison of those two. When these pre amps and amps were new, there was no way I could have afforded them (their retail prices were more than my first couple of cars!) The N77 with its huge "monster meters" is a real conversation starter; both amplifiers are hugely powerful. To my ears, the E80/N80 combo sound better, so that is what I use daily. The build quality of these particular ES pieces are so far beyond what is sold today its staggering. Enjoyed the video.
I have the 77ESD that I bought in 1987 and it still works just fine.
Glad to hear.
Great video. This comparison was very revealing. I'm sure the 77 sounds good too but the 80 has to be better. The difference in layout and quality is very noticeable when looking inside. Thank you for showing this and for all of your videos. It really helps knowing these things and shows what to look for when looking for good vintage gear.
Thanks for watching! Well said.
Hi. Thanks for that video. But... what about sound quality? Did you compare sound of this two pre amps? Can you describe differences in sound?
i had the top pre with the amp on the other video with huge power meters conected to a very high-end speakers from Cerwin-vega ,mine the rubber menbrane didn´t rotten but i sold them to buy better ones, when new the ES system did had a very good sound ,but i tried next nakamichi and ended up buying a pioneer URUSHI system ,no problems or reapirs needed since mid 90´s some components were bought in second hand, with a pair of mid 80´s Mission Argonaut MKII 200watts at 4ohms i´m very happy with it, i think you have other video showing some URUSHI components ,i own the power amplifier without those meters in red ,the pre is the same you showed
thanks a lot, it is really awesome to see how careful they did the layout. some vendors & engineers should open more often vintage gear to learn something about quality!!
Right? Makes it so much easier to service too. I was just inside a Nakamichi Dragon, what a mess.
No comparison, really. Preamps that offer video switching allocate funds away from the audio section. Video switching back then was very new, thus very expensive to produce and market. What’s under the hood speaks for itself. The 77 has its wiring haphazardly strewn about, whereas with the 80, everything has it’s place. I’m sure the measured performance of the 80 is better as well. The 77 may have more features to offer, but like in this case, more features will not always equal better execution or performance. That’s not to say the 77 isn’t probably a good preamplifier - it’s just not in the same league. As far as I know, the same can be said about the difference between the 80ES and the 90ES.
Thanks for putting these videos together. They really shed some light onto just how good many of these older audio products are. And I agree, TheVintageKnob is a fantastic resource and museum. I just wish the original creator still owned it and added to it. Perhaps you can start a “museum” of sorts on your site 😉 much like what you’re doing here.
PS: please include the model numbers in your title or description. It may be hard for a 77 or 80 owner to find this video otherwise.
Connor
Nicely done. I knew I was doing the right thing!
That was really cool, thanks for sharing! 🖖
Great job!
90s .. lookin rad.
Thank man
Have you done a video on the Sony 330es amp?
Now whether it is power amp or pre amp or integrated amplifier
Love Sony ES gear
I really appreciate this seties of videos. Thank you!
Glad you like them! I have a Sony amp to do next.
I want trouble and rhythm i want to hear this my favourite Sangeet was classical and folk so what can I do you suggest
Love love LOVE your channel.
Subbed up. Look great 👍🏾
Appreciate it
Obviously the design teams for the two had very different work orders, but a very similar budget. The 80 had to go neck in neck with the audiophile heavies of the time, the 77 was to show their technical prowess. Unfortunately, as an audiophile, when you look just at the phono boards you realize that for music there is no contest. And in the real world the 77 can't hold a candle to the 80. The 80 and his matching amp are definitely in my top 5 (the list starts with Harman Citations X-1 and X-2).
What do you think about the TA-808ES?
12:59 Audio and power regulators
13:33 Micro computer board
Hi Fernando once again a great review..You always talk good things regarding well made quality PC boards I am in the process upgrading my Amplifier from a Musical A3 Fidelity Amp and Pre to a Luxman they have a reputation for high quality PC boards.. can you explain why high quality PC boards are so important please..?
Hi Fred. Technically they don't make much of a difference with regards to sound. However its nice when a manufacturer uses super high quality component to build. It does make it easier to us to service as the traces are more resistant to re-soldering and replacing components. Older boards tend to sag, specially the larger ones which can lead to broken traces.
@@SkyFiAudio Thanks so much.🙏
Nice engineering, not just a pretty face. Cool.
"S-Video, even worse". No, S-Video was an improvement on composite albeit obsolete today, regardless. Nevertheless, I enjoy these vids so thanks for doing them. The 80 definitely looks to be the better of the two units: it seems to be of higher quality and is audio-only rather than containing the now obsolete video switching of the 77ESD. That said, the matching power amp for the 77 series is a lovely looking thing with those big meters, whilst the N80ES power amp is just a big lump and not particularly attractive-looking. According to the Vintage Knob the non "D" version of the 77 was available in North America....
I wait for Pioneer Elite stack video
Coming next!
It's out. I've already seen it.
What camera model/gimbal model do you use to film the video with?
Its a DJI OSMO Lee.
Sorry for all the questions. What camera / phone are you using. It seems to work very well for your videos. Ps I am based in France. If I am ever in the states I’ll pop in and explore your shop. It looks fantastic. Do you stock/repair or might you do a feature on Stax headphones?
Great Job to me the internal dac of
The 7 Series would of been a hit back n its day I'm sure looked pretty impressive for its time period , those chips are decent also BB 56p .
But i get where your coming from being Pure Analog - But Just a Volume control is a Purest Mode 😆 Got a good ?
For you when you have the time
Right on, there was a Denon that also had an internal DAC but it was quite revolutionary.
@@SkyFiAudio Yeah over Japan they got all the good stuff !! Denon 3500G ?
My ? Is I own a lot of gear and speakers about a dozen of each vintage/new-age and even as a kid about 15 years old I noticed their was like this 'Majic Volume' setting where the speakers and amp pairing sounded their best if i turned volume up or down it didn't sound its optimum . Its like input matches output perfectly at its best its like Volume Synergy and its normally between
.5 watt to 2 watts were the performace is just right , I have always tried to find a name for this !! I even know a guy that has no Volume control and his amp puts out almost 1 watt , but he says volume control adds a lot of noise crazy world
But all my setups have this Volume Synergy something that never gets talked about . 😥
What do you think about the Adcom GFP -750 preamp?
Very nice pice. Well built, neutral sounding.
@@SkyFiAudio thanks for the feedback on a different pre then the ones here. I have had the outcome for about a year and really am liking it. Keep up these videos. I really really enjoy them. The one about the pioneer CD player was insane! Copper heaven!
@@SkyFiAudio another question is how do you think these vintage preamps like the two sonys and my adcom stack up against modern preamps and in what price range?
woow, this is very nice gear :)
For me E80Es
but I am asking 150w RMS per channel buy
I would go for the 80. The video and DAT stuff is not my cup of tea. I would be interested in a comparison between such an old DAC with a modern one chip DAC though.
I tend to agree. Dont really like a DAC in my pre.
Def the 80! Impressive looking build quality. Do these often need a recap?
Please increase the microphone level another 3+ db. When the ads come begin I nearly blow my ear drums out lol.
Keep up the great content!!
What ads? Consider installing an adblocker.
@@cjay2 are you serious. RUclips ads
Noted!
For like $10 per month you can get rid of the ads. Best money I ever spent as I watch ALOT of youtube,.
What is the DAC used for?
Digital to Analog Converter and vice versa for the power switching capabilities. (Tape to CD, etc.)
Yes we had small digital tapes in the 90's. They didn't last long. (DCC) Digital Compact Cassette
Apparently I can't say Google.
It could also mean Digital Audio Cassette, just search it on that thing. Tiny little tapes
Dumb YT removing harmless comments again 😒
500es?
What's that? Do share.
Pioneer Elite c91 has better build quality. 3 transformers (for 1 to every channel), dual mono construction for superior channel separation.
While true the C91 has separate transformers the parts are cheap, it is poorly laid out and it is a rats nest in there. I have both and the Sony preamps, especially the E80ES is truly a high end piece. Lots of high quality parts with build quality on par with their 7 series cd players
@@OscarHernandez-xx2je parts in Pioneer are not cheap for sure. C91 has high grade nichicon Muse for audio, ucon polypropylene caps used in Hiend amps, soshin foil capacitors used also in Pioneer Elite cd Player, matsushita polypropylene capacitors. So no, parts are not cheap. Sony is much worse built. Hiend preamp should have separate transformers for each channels, best preamps has that design. But not cheap sony
@@OscarHernandez-xx2je and i See lots of loose cables in Sony preamps too. Rat nests. So your argument is invalid
@@Watcher4111it may have those parts but it is cheaply built by comparison. Facts. Get the Sony and you’ll understand.
I agree the C91 is a horrible mess inside but the parts quality is consistent with the rest of the series. It kinda makes by brain hurt when I look inside.
Nice video, as always. Thank you for it. I have been involved in music, video, LPs, tape, CD, SACD, High-end etcetera for 40 years. Also had everything from Sony to Philips to, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Akai, Sensui, and so on. I've had almost everything from Sony. But I also enjoyed every brand. For the last 10 years I have been with Musical Fidelity KW Tulip. And Monoblocks from, AVM AMP GUNTERMANIA. And speakers from Kef Model 4.2 Reference. What I do regret is that you don't actually find any videos of these speakers, Kef Model 4.2 Reference. These play so beautifully, especially with the powerful Monoblocks. It would be nice if I could see them on your channel sometime. Who knows ever. Long live our hobby. Thanks again for your nice videos and explanations. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and of course continue with what you are doing. Peace and love from all over the earth...
✌🏾🌍😘💯 %
Appreciate you sharing your experience. Nice to hear from someone from the Netherlands. Cheers.
For their price you will get much better new DAC nowdays! You can't find any of these for a bargain price nowdays no more!
👍🇵🇱🇵🇱👍
Thanks mate.
S-video isn’t worse
Better than composite for sure.
Chatty Kathy, he talks too much.