The Mopar Balance Fix! LA 318 to 360 Swap and Beyond!
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- I have found the simple solution to switch back and forth between internally balanced engines (Steel Crank LA273, LA318, LA340's, B383's/RB440's ,RB413's) to externally balanced engines (LA 360's, cast crank 340's, B400's).
Note:all LA 318's were internally balanced.
A true high performance/Race engine should be internally balanced.
FIND THE RIGHT FLEXPLATE FOR YOUR MOPAR!
www.summitraci...
www.summitraci...
www.summitraci...
First straight forward video on this ive been able to find this was the last piece to my 360 swap for my 85 W100!!!
Thanks Juan! Good luck on your build 👍🏼
Very nicely done joe! thanks for the mention on screen!
Thanks for the off screen support!
@@JustMoparJoe Anytime my friend!!
Thanks for the shoutout. I hope those videos I contributed to your playlist can help someone with something! That's a great resource you put together.
Thanks John! Your trans work will be helpful to anyone in the future that wants to know more about how the torqueflite works and it’s assembly.
So John I order the 27 tooth torque converter.my question is,there is another spine on the transmission.18 teeth. Do I aspect that’s the combination? 27 tooth and 18 tooth is a normal set up. i don’t want to get it have to send it back.summit didn’t know if it is a18 tooth.
@@johninterisano5528 Do you mean splines? I’ve never counted them, but I believe there are fewer on the input shaft than the reaction shaft that the input comes out through. I can’t attest to your numbers, but the torque converters should interchange 1967-up until the lockup torque converters in 80 or 81.
I learn....I like...then I go faster. Love the channel Joe!
Thank you!
This is good info Joe! I just learned about that B&M flex plate from an engine builder. Good video as always.
One thing I read awhile back is you have to rasp one of the holes on the flexplate to get all the bolt holes aligned. I could be misremembering.
This one went in perfectly. I believe you have to open up a hole on a magnum flex plate when using it with an older 727/904 converter. Thanks for the support Tom!
@@JustMoparJoedoes ovaling out the flex plate hole affect the balance of the engine?
@@acardiac5983 no sir. It’s very little weight your taking off the outer layer of the balanced platform. Technically, yes it could change the number on the screen of a balancer. But only a minute amount.
Catching up still and I will say when the time comes to get a ride going and done you are going to be one of the go to sources I am going to use. Shear fact I think you are honest and tell it how it is and no sugar coated BS'ing and I love that in a person. Almost impossible to find and earn in today's order of things. Great evening you Mr. J. Mopar Joe! Hope your all doing well at the homestead. Enjoy your evening and thanks again for all your time and research.
Thanks for checking out the older videos! Have had some cool projects over the last year
@@JustMoparJoe you are welcome and I love watching learning then passing it on to someone else. Trying to better myself and mass up enough knowledge and inspiration to get my own project going. Hardest part is going to be coming up with the older stuff to get it done. I'm not wanting to go the newer car or truck route. I can see why people are doing it now due to the price and availability of the stuff to make it happen but I have to be diligent. Good day to you tomorrow, Mopar Joe!
Yeah, that clown at ACC/Boss Hog ripped me off too. For $1'100.00 on a converter for a 440 I built. I did a bench fit test and it wouldn't line up with converter because he welded the bolt holes in the wrong place. He said my torque plate was wrong and to send both back to him and he would fixt it. I thought he was gonna cut the bolt hole tabs off and set them straight w/ my perfect flex plate as a template. He just drilled out 2 of the holes on the flex plate extra large - almost 3/4" and charged me an extra $160 for repairs and shipping both ways, new converter bolts he grabbed of the shelf at home depot. I did not realize that he ruined the flex plate until I got it back and saw the damage to it. And the bolts he sold me were so thick that if u put one on and tried to rotate the motor it would hit the block. I shoulda known that something was wrong with his talk. That flex plate fit perfectly on 3 different high-stall converters before he trashed it. Another $190 down the drain. That converter was so far off center, it would only line up on the bench. Even with the extra large holes it would not marry to the motor. When I called and complained saying I wanted to return it -he blocked my phone and ignored my texts and emails. That rat thief said he cut his teeth on Chryslers. I wouldn't trust him to put air in a tire. I'm getting pissed off all over again just thinking about that lyin' thief. Sorry bro, good post - that name ACC- Boss hog CRAP just triggered me. Anyway, I never knew about the notch on the flywheel for weighted converters. Thanks for the heads up - I'm currently building my first 360 and was concerned about the converter situation.
Oh man! Sorry to hear that!
@@JustMoparJoe Thanks man...I really lost it for a minute there. Heh, Heh
Wow, those converter bolts are massive!
Thanks guy for all you help.i do get the 727 and 904 mixed up all the time,sorry about that.I bought a torque converter 27 tooth 1.810 pilot hole from summit.the motor mounts I dug into a pile of motor mount ,just have to make a 5/16” shim for driver side.then on to the next problems.thanks again
Awesome John! Keep me posted. Sounds like a viewer spotlight someday!
@@JustMoparJoe it’s working so far. Just going right now to finish everything off.
Finally got it finish to start it.TCI 27 tooth torque converter 273 for a crank work good.one of the four bolt very fussy to start,it’s the torque converter not the plate.mini starter work good.392 oil pan worked,didn’t have too buy one.the only thing,the timing cover had to be replaced and the water pump feed is on the wrong side,hard to see the time marks on the pulley. the 273 that came with the dart has the plate that bolts onto the bottom of water pump.so it looks like the timing marks are in different locate?between the 273 and 318,360,I guess 340.thank again.
Awesome video Joe
Thanks Sam! Hope you and your family have a great Easter(Passover).
I hope the same to you and yours brother
Excellent video, one extra catch on these is that the 360 Magnum has yet another different balance, you cannot use a 360 LA flexplate on a 360 Magnum.
Thanks Patrick. I was trying to focus on Pre magnum stuff. I did include “the gas tap” video about doing the magnum swap in his truck, in my Mopar playlist. I know with the 360 magnum I bought, the flex plate came with it. 👍🏼
Solid advice 👍thx JMJ
Thanks for watching!
Great info Joe! Ive been down this road before and have made mistakes and seen friends make the mistakes mixing and matching! HaHa
Thanks Duddie! Live and learn for sure. My dad luckily taught us at an early age about the balance tricks. I did just find the flex plate.
Nice video! PTC converters are reputable. Looks like you are getting closer.
Yes sir! Hope to drop it in Monday! Hope you and your family have a good resurrection Sunday.
@@JustMoparJoe That will be fun! Same to you!
Like the sign on door behind you 👍
You know, that was my dads favorite before he passed in 2015.
That's fine. I can make the weights, and will weld on the converter. Opposite to damper flat is good. Normally they go on either side of drain plug, but I had to drill flexplate to fit converter. There is 25% chance of being right. I will weld on weights and let u know. Thanks.
Zoom in on the video and see which bolt holes coincide on the crank flange. It looks like it may be between the two widest holes.
Nice info thanks for sharing that
Thanks Brother!
Good info here! Question- if building an externally balanced motor that you want to break in on a test stand, how can you do it since it would require the weight on the torque converter to achieve balance? If you could ever do a video on your home made test stand that you used to break in that 360 and what you need to do to set up motors on there (bell housing, wiring, etc) that would be awesome-love the Mopar content! Thanks!!
Thanks Rich! I use a small block bellhousing (for an 833) and the flywheel from 440 source. If it’s a 360, I just bolt the weight on. 318, I take the weight off. I’ll try to show it someday soon. Might have a 413 on it! 😉
Man what a helpful video thanks again
No problem 👍 thanks for the support
Yes, that does help. Thanks.
Cool 👍🏼
When I was younger I made the mistake and swapped a 360 in my ram truck and made the mistake of putting the 318 flexplate on it…It shaked like a chihuahua trying to shit a peach seed!!😂😂😂😂
😂
@@JustMoparJoe It was bad!!!Thanks for the info brother…Really enjoy your channel!!!
I just found out that the 440 Source makes a big block version of this plate for about half of what the B&M costs. Unfortunately they don't make one for a small block.
🤔 I used this plate on my 360 in my barracuda currently behind a 727. I’ll check into it. I’ve seen 360 converters used behind 400’s as a bit of a stall speed. Also 318 converters from 727’s used behind 440’s for a stall speed as well.
Good Job on the Videos Mate
Thanks brother!
Hey Joe since I’m a new sub I’m checking some older ones out 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks Mark! I’ve completed a couple projects on here. I tried making them into playlists if that interests you.
What happen when you have a 273, 904 27 tooth torque converter.
You want to put a 360 to replace the 273?
Do they make a replacement torque converter?
Further update they do not make one.
Iam going to get a brushing made for the end of the torque converter.
You’d need weights on your 273 converter or one of the b and m flex plates like I mentioned in this video. Check out the description of the video for different links. It’s likely the 273 had a 904 behind it.
@@JustMoparJoe the problem is the crank pilot hole is smaller on the 273,so the torque converter is to small for the 360 crank.the only thing I was thinking about is a bushing for the crank,or a sleeve for the torque converter.i have the plate for the torque converter weight fix.i do have a 727 318 transmission,put it needed rebuild.i didn’t know about the smaller pilot hole or I would of rebuild the 318.
In theory, if it’s a 904, you could replace the 273 converter with a 360 converter for a 904, or 318 converter for a 904.
Hi, I'm changing a 273 engine from my 1966 Dodge Coronet to a 360 magnum and I put a BMM 10239 flaxplate for the 904 transmission, but the problem is that the strate touches the flexplate and doesn't let the car start.
Double check that part number. Maybe you got a 727 plate? That’s a new one on me
@@JustMoparJoe I already bought a 727 transmission. I think I won't have any more problems, what do you think?
I’ve got a question for you, since you seem very knowledgeable about transmissions and I am not, could you put a 318 transmission on a 360? And just put a 5.9 torque converter on it to line up with the flexplate? Because everything I’m seeing shows that both the torque converters are the same for the most part, at least internally, I know some of them have different bolt patterns. And I know the 318 is internally balanced, where’s the 360 has a weight welded to the flexplate.
Thanks brother. It’s simple. 360’s from around 72-the early 90’s all had a weighted converter. To bypass that, you buy the b and m flexplate like in the video. That would allow you to run a neutral balance converter (like a 318 had). Magnum 360 engines from 94-01 had their own special balanced flexplates to use with any neutral converter.
Where do flexplate weights go in relation to flat on crank damper?
I can’t tell you that. They typically go on the converter. The flexplate here has that cutout, which would put the weights on the opposite side of the cutout.
So anyways, found out the torque converter is not for that transmission.early 904.it fits the 27 tooth spline but does not fit the second spline. That’s why transmission not working.
I haven’t dealt with the early 904’s. Hopefully you can find a newer model to use with your build.
@@JustMoparJoe I do have a 904 for a 1969 318 but it needed to be rebuild .sitting for 40 years.just pick the wrong transmission to be rebuilt.
Sorry to hear that. I hear they’re an easy rebuild if you get the time.
Hi,was getting ready to bolt my torque converter on my 360 with the balanced flex plate, no weights on the back of the converter, but found some on the side,welded on the round part,about. 1/8 "thick,so is this converter considered balanced because of the side weights,I actually have 2 that have weights in that location, thanks Paul
Thanks Paul. The weights would be on the flat side of converter, same as the bolt pads. If there is weight on that side, you can remove it, or you can use a standard flex plate.
Do you know what the depth clearance is on a 904 when the TC is fully seated?
I’m not sure on that. Check the TCI chart if you can.
I swapped out my 318 dark two or 360 magnum I use the reservoir that came with the motor but it hits the battery do you have any answers can I put the battery in the trunk thank you John
You can move your battery if need be. I'm confused on what reservoir is hitting on what. The 360 mag should be a direct bolt in for that 318.
Great video Joe, I ran into an issue yesterday when I’m trying to put my new 383 into my Coronet. The new engine crank ( internally balanced) is different than my stock 400 crank. The crank that’s on the new engine still has six holes, but my stock fly wheel won’t bolt up to it. The six holes or a different locations. In other words 4 holes lineup 2 don’t. I’m not sure what flywheel to ask for when I’m ordering one. I know for certain that my converter is a 10 inch bolt pattern, but my issues with the six bolts the ball to the crank.I was thinking about just drilling into my stock fly wheel by adding 2 new holes, but thought better of it. Any info with a big block on this matter would be very helpful. Thank you Joe
That is wild. I know the 6 bolts only line up one way. Look at your crank shaft and find the two holes that are further apart. There could be a balancing hole in between. Then find the two farthest apart on your flex plate Then they should mate up. If not, spin it and watch the holes. Let me know if that works.
@@JustMoparJoe Well Joe, funny story. After I got online and asked a bunch of contacts if there were two different 6 hole patterns, I went down a rabbit hole. But after I read your comment back to me, it made me want to check again. I put the flex plate up there and sure enough, no matter what combination the holes would not lineup. Until my wife said to flip the plate around. I had marked the plate with the paint marker so I knew what way to both it to the converter so I face my marks outward when I should’ve faced them inward. I had the plate on upside down and that’s why the holes didn’t line up. I just checked it again and we are good to go. I feel so stupid. Thank you Joe I can’t tell you how valuable your comments are and your videos.
What motor mounts do you need to go from 273 to a 360 on a 1967 dart.
John, in my car, someone has welded in braces from a 65-66 model car that support the earlier style brackets. Many say the driver side of the 360 block has a thicker lug for mounting. Since it’s a pre 72, I would imagine it would have a pancake style. Maybe my friend MoparNut62 can chime in.
Yes you need the biscuit style bracket if the car still has the original k frame. The 360. Engine mounting ears are not as wide on the driver's side so you'll have to shim the rear mounting hole the passenger side is the same a on all LA engine so your good there. The driver side e body mount for one with a 360 will Probally work since I'm pretty sure they never went to the spool mount style engine mount brackets.
Plus the brackets mount behind the ears on the block not to the front of them just in case you were wondering.
So what I used was the motor mounts off the engine from the 273 that game out of the dart.i didn’t mark them on what side they came off.i switch the motor mounts.driver side ,mounted them on the back side of the engine mount,added a spacer too the back side of engine mount.passage side,mounted motor mount on the back side of the engine mount and had to drill a hole because the engine mount had three holes.the rubber motor mount sits on the bottom of the holes in the k frame.don’t know if the motor is sitting to low?did check drive shaft by looks only.find out latter.might have to add a space under the rubber mount?
@@johninterisano5528 that's good that it works if the motor mounts have their part numbers stamped in and mopar is usually very good for doing so, the part number that ends in a even number is on the right side of engine passenger side looking from sitting in the driver's seat....and the odd number ending is on left driver side...with transmission attached how does it line up with trans crossmember?
Can that BM flex plate bolt onto a Magnum 360?
@@acardiac5983 no sir. Magnums have their own balance. It’s recommended to use the stock plate that came with your engine. If you can’t, then I’d look at rock auto for the exact plate that matches your engine.
I have a 1977 360. And a 727 that didn’t come with it. I bought the plate. But what converter do I buy. A neutral or balanced converter. With the weight ( butterfly) looking weight ?
You need a neutral balanced converter. Call MIke Eiben at Top line converters. He will fix you up!
@@JustMoparJoe thanks 🙏🏻
Awsome video... I just got my 9.5 PTC converter, it has a weight on it.... I dont think I need it though... 1999 dodge Dakota Rt 5.9 magnum? So...just take the weight of the converter or..off..the flexplate???
Magnums area new ballgame. They balance differently than a LA series engine. Check out magnumswap.com and @the gas tap on RUclips. He has a couple videos that should help you out more. I haven’t done my first magnum swap, but I have a 360 magnum in the floor. Lol
@@JustMoparJoe will do thanks bud
Hello, I’m wanting to put a 46rh behind my la360. Do I need a neutral converter ant the fancy flex plate? Thanks
Go check out Cope racing transmissions on RUclips. He can answer any 46rh questions. You’ll definitely need weighted converter or flexplate
Thanks man.
Ever mess with flywheels , have 318. Wheel here and looking to put on 360... Just curious if its possible to set it up on 360 ..
You can add the weight on the 318 wheel in the right place, or have it drilled. The easiest thing to do is get a 360 flywheel from Oreilys. They’re usually under $150
@@JustMoparJoe oh copy that ...
@@terrancerobinson6634 order for a late 70’s truck with a 360. Should get you one ordered in. Last one I bought was there next day
Are you sure using that plate for a 318 torque converter behind a 360 will work with beating the Bearings out of the motor
Gary, each plate is weighted differently for balance. There’s a different B and M part number for a 360,400, and cast crank 440. Ed and I found that out on my 400 crank that he balanced. I brought the 360 plate shown here, and it had to be drilled to work with the 400 crank and rotating assembly.
@@JustMoparJoe OK. I'm replacing my 318 with a 360 both LA motors so I bought the B&M flex plate you showed instead of Welding weights onto it . But my son has a 408 stroker with a 3500 stall but it has the weight on it so he bought the B&M flex plate that you showed and put it on with the cut out at the weight. So that should be balanced out right. We never mest with a 408 before and he wasn't told he had to use a neutral balanced converter for it . It was built by blueprint engines and sold by Jegs but they never said anything to him about it being different. So what's your thoughts on it will it work
Hi Joe. Can u tell me what flex plate i will need for a 1968 340 internal balance v8 to suit a 904 trans. I have been looking at b&m range i think the 10230 is the one i need but they say suits only 727? Has 10" bolt pattern which suits 904 torque convertor. What am i missing for that particular one to only suit a 727 or will it work with a 904 as well? No one can give me a answer. Hope u can help. Thanks
I am sad to say, I don’t know the right answer. I believe earlier 340’s were internally balanced and forged cranks. I think they switched to cast cranks after 70, which would be cast and externally balanced. I could be totally off on that. Check on forabodiesonly. There should be an accurate answer there.
@@JustMoparJoe thanks yes apparently after 72 they were externally ballanced. I am told now the 10230 will fit the 340 to 904 by a mopar mechanic i know. I have a 10234 flexplate which is to suit a 72 onwards 340 to 904 external ballanced motor but that is wrong for me, apparently those flexplates are discontinued now.
@@67wogval maybe you can flip it on eBay or Facebook. The plate I bought had several sets of holes. I ended up using it behind my 400, but I sent it to the machine/balance shop. He actually had to drill the flex plate to make it compatible. But now I can run any neutral balanced converter and it be smooth as butter.
If I’m using that BM flexing does that mean I need a neutral converter for my 360?
Correct!
i have a 360 externally balanced and a 727. Can I run a neutrally balanced converter with no weights?
With the correct b and m flex plate 👍🏼
@@JustMoparJoe ok cool so the same flex plate you have here?
@@TheJerseyRejects double check the description of the video. I have links to summit racing there
@@JustMoparJoe ok cool thanks!
How can I contact you?
justmoparjoe@gmail.com
I tried to use that plate on a stock 318 converter and when you turn it around none of the bolt holes on the plate lines up enough to bolt it without modifications to the holes. So I'm just making my own weights for it or by Mopar performance part # p4120241and weld it on my self than mess with the plate that may or may not balance properly
Sell me your plate Gary. Lets make a deal! justmoparjoe@gmail.com
That plate also weighs more than the weight you weld on the torque converter. But I'm going to use the plate the correct way after I weld on the correct weight
@@garyjohnson801 the plate here has the winged piece in place of the weight. I’ve checked it on a balancer with Ed at Ed’s machine. He said it’s spot on correct for a 360 crankshaft. The 440 source weighted flexplate was off quite a bit for a cast crank 440. It’s all really guessing unles you have it respun
I'm going to try using it because I can't find a new torque converter for my 360 and the only place to get the weight doesn't answer the phone or return phone or answer email anymore . So I guess they are no longer in business. So I've made the plate fit and I'm going to try it so I hope you're right and it doesn't beat the bearings out of the bottom end. So thanks for the info
Hi, I'm changing a 273 engine from my 1966 Dodge Coronet to a 360 magnum and I put a BMM 10239 flaxplate for the 904 transmission, but the problem is that the strate touches the flexplate and doesn't let the car start.
Look at how the full ring gear is exposed in the thumbnail. I would guess you have too large of a plate