Worth noting: Advanced SL 0 retail price in Australia is $13799 AUD ($8994 USD). Same bike in USA is $12500 USD. I can't explain that price difference... Those not from Australia may not be as stoked with the value as we are here.
This constantly happens in the clothing retail world between USA and Canada too. The canadian suggested retail prices are always too cheap compared to the US/CAD exchange rate
Similar is the case with motorcycles, Honda adv 160 is $3000 in Philippines with a better spec(rear wheel disc instead of drum), worse spec adv 160 is $4500 in the US.
I work in a bike shop and while I can’t specifically speak on the TCR (we are a specialized dealer), I can tell you that in our shop the aethos outsells the tarmac 5 to 1. The reality is the vast majority of road riders do NOT race. They want a light, snappy, comfortable road bike that feels good to ride. 9 times out of 10 they want to adjust the fit, having a separate bar/stem makes that cheaper and easier
In Indonesia, Helios, TCR, supersix, and emonda still the most popular type. But with resurgence of ultra cycling/randonneur, Domane, Caledonia, Aspero, Defy start to outsell them.
@@bernardo9202the defy isn’t as cool as the S-works name. The fact that you would even consider the defy, tells me that you don’t understand modern day average user lol. Modern day cycling is about having a cool bike as a cool toy to show off on rides; your fitness or rides you do is a secondary consideration that you might brag about, but no one really cares about. If your local scene is however made up of the opposite, then it’s highly likely that your country just isn’t a market that the bicycle companies care much for. More than willing to bet that getting parts during Covid like 12spd di2 etc was a headache there, compared to some other countries where it was on the shelf for the picking.
@@mrcha0s yea buddy. Not hating just giving constructive criticism. I watched this channel for about a year and just got bored of all the hating THEY DO. Like they’re the character people are referring to when people say cyclist are a bunch of elitist snobs.
To me, the TCR doesn't make sense as a second race bike. The Propel seems, on paper, to do it all. But, I have a TCR and I absolutely love it. I know that it's not the fastest bike, but it looks awesome and feels amazing to ride. Given it's history, it's developed a cult following, and was so cutting edge in the beginning. I applaud Giant for continuing to make a bike that doesn't necessarily make sense, but people still love.
I'm going again this week (sorry)... You've gotta talk about Jasper's haute route vlog series... The best videos going round at the moment. So good what he's bringing us
You hear pro-teams talk about picking a bike for when the race is going to be decisive. So a GC rider might pick the TCR because he's going to spend all day in the wheels, then when the race actually kicks off it's on a 9% climb and the weight savings matter more than the Propel's aero advantage. You could also claim that the TCR would be more comfortable for that rider over a long tour, and that might keep him a bit fresher.
My best friend had the old propel and swapped to a 2021 TCR, other than being much lighter most of the reason he loved it was the way it rides. There’s something about the way a bike rides that can’t be captured by the type of data that marketing and testing love so much, and I think for most of us ride feel is a metric that we value over outright speed.
I think most racers won’t be able to appreciate or care about it. It’s the same reason why I bought the aethos. Yes, it’s light, but that isn’t the main reason why one should buy one.
Cade Media conveniently don't tick the box that says "Paid promotion" on their sponsored videos. They'll probably say they forgot, in reality it is for the algorithm.
@@eto2352 That's a bit unfair. The Wild Ones podcast is a lot of fun. They have Mechanic Nick on quite a bit and he doesn't push product. Neither does Bikefit James. Besides, GCN do a pretty good job as a cycling magazine channel. They're entertaining and fairly informative. And it's all free!
Random points as a TCR fanboyz: - the new version, like the previous one, just looks fantastic to me. Good enough selling point. - On release day, Giant must be delighted that Luke Plapp just rode his way to the GC lead of Paris-Nice against a stacked field. - Hookless wheels are probably the dark spot om this bike. Funny that on the own photo of the Cadex wheels release, the new Cadex Tyre list 95 psi as max pressure (probably true on hooked wheels), but poor Joe bloke not aware of what hookless is might be in for a nasty surprise if he goes 90+ psi...
The cold cutting technique is so a laser doesn’t cure the pre preg carbon cloth edges. I agree the stiffness to weight ratio as well as value is Giant’s calling card.
I think you guys nailed it as far as doing a paid promotion goes 👍. Short, to the point, no over the top claims or hype, done in such a calm manner that I actually listened/watched rather than instantly skipping.
Over here in Europe, highest an Ultimate CFR bike with Shimano goes for is 10k EUR. Giant TCR is 12.3k EUR based on specs, and assuming it will end up in a similar price range.
I think the place for the TCR is really just that they've updated it for people who really want a TCR. Which is cool. TCRs are rad. It doesn't have to be a faster bike than the propel, or really lighter. Honestly like the market for most "lightweight" bikes these days when aero bikes are quite light too often. You've just got to want one cause you like how it feels or you think it's cool or it makes you feel awesome riding it.
Tadej just soloed a victory from 80km out riding in an upright position compared to most. Brands are moving away from aero bikes and the rims are 30-45 deep - proven that over 40 shaves a few watts and is not worth it. Get with the times!
TCR is probably the best all arounder race bike on the planet for last 15 years. They improved it with small changes. Don't mess with a winning formula unlike Specialized adding a hideous wart to the head tube and calling it a new model. TCR has been the best cost/benefit road bike for all time and good news will be in 2024. PS. TCR not aero as you assert? Better watch Dave Arthur's personal TCR comparison in the wind tunnel compared to Trek's flagship aero Madone. There was nothing between them and this new bike has more truncated tube shapes. The dummy in the wind tunnel testing the new TCR wouldn't speak about testing with an integrated bar and stem. All the dummy would say is integated bars and stems are a bike maker money grab and for dummies.
okay, so I see a lot of bike published data with watts saved at x km/h. As an amateur rider for a 50km-ish ride at best I'll average 30km/h on undulating terrain, I'll be riding between 20-40km/h pending gradient but really sitting about low 30's on the flat. I'd love to know if aero watt savings matter to any real difference at these speeds. I'm still leaning towards lightness over aero focus, hence why I'm guessing a TCR is a more sellable bike than a propel? Just a thought, I'm no expert. Would manufacturers have anything to market between aero bikes and 'road bikes' if they published watt comparison's at 30km/h
Honest question regarding the S5: why do you say a shorter wheelbase makes it better for accelerating. I only have first year physics but afaik shorter wheelbase makes steering twitchier and allows you to fit into tighter spaces in a crowded peloton but does not affect how fast you ride or accelerate. Is it possible it's all in your head or am I missing something?
It feels faster. There's zero basis in physics for it. It just feels faster. Which if you're not racing, it may matter more how fast it feels vs how fast it is.
It's funny how the once "revolutionary" TCR now has a timeless look and appeal. Mr Arthur pretty much said he liked the feel of the TCR and that he preferred the ride to the propel. Shame I bought a Revolt last week.
I never seen you guys dive so deep into data and analytics, must really like the giant, but when the specialized launched you focused more on the marketing….someone has a favorite brand 😂
I’m in the market for a new bike (keen on Ultegra Di2 and something a bit stiffer and lighter than my current bike). Narrowed it down to: Giant TCR Pro 0 / Canondale SuperSix Evo4 / Specialized Tarmac SP7 Expert / Canyon Ultimate SL8 CF My bike mechanic said to stay away from Canyon - he believes quality is hit and miss. Specialized is $1.5k more, with worse wheels, alloy handlebars, and no powermeter. The Supersix Evo looks great (albeit more expensive), but they don’t offer demo rides, and I’m anxious dropping $9k on a bike I can’t test. That leaves me with Giant (either Propel or TCR). Most people seem to think the TCR suits my riding type - hills, 40-80km rides, occasional group rides. I don’t get all the hate for Giant. It seems like great value for money, a quality bike, and they manufacture frames for most of the other manufacturers. It’s the Corolla of bikes - value for money, reliable, quality build.
Totally off topic guys but just fyi, your show is the only show in you tube I can play RUclips Picture in Picture on my iPhone. Very handy feature, I don’t have a premium RUclips account so surprising. Doesn’t work on any other videos.
You guys in Australia are getting a bargain with the top spec SL at AU$13,800. That bike is C$15,500 in Canada even though the AU$ is at an 11% discount to the C$. Your AU$13,800 is roughly US$9,100 at the current exchange rate. Americans could travel to Australia, buy the TCR and fund a good portion of their vacation with the money they save on the bike. I saw the same thing with the Revolt Advanced Pro 0 in 2022. I asked someone at Giant Canada what was going on and they said that Giant lets each country set it's own price. I found that hard to believe, but it seems to hold here.
I’ve had two and just bought another (SL1)use it for everything, 3 peaks, commuting, bike paths, Sunday morning etc. There are also discounts that makes the price very competitive.
Just a thought. If you can fold yourself in half and train to be tiny, then what is under you makes less of a difference, in that case, get a fun, twitchy/snappy TCR. If you are a sit upright sail, then any gain you can get into the wind pushes you to the aero bike.
I’d love to see some more testing. If it rides well and it’s lightweight I think there’s a real niche for it. Greater range surely means better consumer choice.
I like it. I'm a 60kg rider and aero doesn't matter on race day when I'm riding behind someone else. I can hold wheels all day, and use the lighter bike when the climbs come. I won't be winning any flat races either way. I like the aeroad a lot, simply because of the looks. I was waiting for the new TCR to finally choose what I would buy, but the fact it comes with a hookless wheelset is a dealbreaker. The tyres are also shit. I will still try to negociate with the bike store to see if they change the wheels, but I doubt it will happen
Well I'm looking at the entry level TCR, and it seems a great deal if you go with some TPU inner tubes, GP 5000 and some elite 40 wheel set, you can take almost a 1kg to the stock option. From 8.3kg, stated by the japanese Giant Website, to around 7,5kg for 3.5k€ There aren't many bikes that can compete. And with so much options on integrated handlebars from China, like the EXS, Avian, Farsports, you can cut even more weight and make it even more aero. All out 4k€. Only beaten by those new Van rysel, Cube and Canyon options
The new cannondale, is one of my favorites, but, the colour on that one is just ugly imo. Hope more brands go the Ridley or orbea way, and let you choose your own paintscheme @@Gianniz27
Giant needs to explain themselves regarding those press images of the one piece bar and stem. The bike is 4 watts faster than the old model and all they did (which I like) was internally route the cables. The Specialized Roval one piece is 6 watts faster than the 2 piece bar and stem combo. I don't believe Giant did their testing with the 2 piece bar and stem.
Agreed for the trek emonda the one piece bar is the majority of the aero gains from the previous model, so I’d be interested to see what it is without that bar.
@@Gianniz27 could you link the test I hadn’t realized they already tested the new tcr id be shocked if they got 6 watts off that bike just saw one in person next to a old one and they basically are the same
I have to say I'm excited by the TCR and I've never ridden a Giant bike in the past. I don't need all out aero. I have a separate race bike for crits and road races. I just want a lightweight, fun bike to ride for my everyday rides. I want a bike that excites me to ride and just gives me an enjoyable ride. And I'm also excited about the price. A similar weighted Aethos (strikes for exposed cables) or SL8 (speed sniffer eww) is $1700 USD more expensive. Pair this with the new Cadex integrated cockpit and my carbon spoked wheels with 30s, and you got a sub-6.8kg fun bike to ride.
I bought the 2021 TCR as my second bike because of the price, the external cable routing is nice for maintenance and I like having a separate bar and stem. The only thing I don't like is the hookless rims.
Just as people like the TCR for its responsiveness "when I go, it goes"... so too I love the Canyon Ultimate (2016); just a super responsive and *rewarding* ride that rewards your slight surge with "come on, let's go!"
For me the differentiating factor bewtween tcr and propel is in the mid to low tear specced bikes. Where the weight difference is around half a kilo which can be significant depending on your riding. Whereas for pros..yeah its always the propel.
I abandoned the race geometry a couple of years ago. I had a 2014 Giant TCR aluminum frame back in the day. I liked it, but it was too twitchy for the type of riding I do. I'm much happier with my Felt Breed "adventure" bike with road tires.
When comparing to Canyon´s Ultimate: In Germany, the Canyon is cheaper than the TCR. And the Ultimate has the adjustable cockpit which allows the normal consumer to slam the stem and adjust the width at home without going to a bike shop.
Love the Show; My Canyon Aeroad (2017, Rim) is 6.6kg (race mode), performance uphill is amazing: eg. i did the Hill Chop with you guys before x-mas, it was up the hill i felt the best and wasn’t going to be dropped there; when aero bikes go sub 6.8 i will buy one
One point I I feel was missed is that with all the layup and factory tour focus, the TCR almost wasn't launched at just riders but also launched at other bike companies as an advertisement to build their bikes at the Giant factory.
In Europe, the top range Ultimate, the CFR Di2, is 9.999 Euros. Meaning 2.300 euros (3.800 AUD!!!!!) cheaper than the 12.299 euros top range Giant TCR SL0.
I really enjoyed your TCR conversation and I agree with Chris that Giant is missing the promo boat by failing to give Jesse a new one, no strings attached, for his Giant patronage and promotion. And for me, no hookless is a new must, way too much bother with corporate tire rules and regulations and if they can derail for pros with a truckload of bikes and mechanics, we don't stand a chance at high speeds by our lonesome on some backroad, no matter the press releases and happy dances. And doesn't the popularity of this bike perhaps rest on brand loyalty? Giant is a great brand, in league with the other handful of giants, and it would seem that a new TCR would simply prompt Giant loyalists to make something good happen for themselves and their favorite bike brand.
After watching the episode i checked prices of the new TCR Advances SL and something went wrong in EU. In Australia Price for TCR is 13800 AUD and In Germany 12300 EUR and EUR/AUD=1.65 as of today. It basically means that TCR across Europe is 50% more expensive than in Australia ... Maybe it is time to make a private import :P
I have no idea where you get your prices and how you chose to compare but in US the Canyon Ultimate CFR Dura Ace is $9999 and the Giant TCR SL Dura Ace is $12500, Ultimate SLX Di2 Ultegra is $5799 and the Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 with di2 Ultegra is $6500, you have it all backwards when comes to value for money, nothing against Giant but their bikes are not cheaper than Canyon, any trims , welcome your comments
About integrated seat posts- so you dial in your position, seems convenient for now. But what happens in a few years, when you have to get new shoes, and oh no, they don’t make the exact same shoes anymore. So your fit changes because the shoes are different, and now you’re not as dialed in. Maybe shoes aren’t a great example, but what if you run expensive power meter pedals now, and they need to be replaced in a few years. What if you want to switch brands of pedals? What if you decide to get narrower bars, which changes your seat position a bit that you want a different saddle? I might be bringing up little things, but marginal gains are what integrated seat posts are all about. I don’t think single use/single purpose marginal gains are worth sacrificing versatility for the majority of riders.
I don’t think you even need to go that far. Over time, depending on your fitness and flexibility at the time, your position changes. I had an ISP on a Wilier a number of years ago. It was a pain. It is also more painful for travel, but I think the arrival of internal wiring, integrated stems and disc brakes has made travelling with your bike a very tough option these days. I keep an old Ti travel bike with S&S couplers, rim brakes, traditional bar and stem, external brake splitters …. the Giant Propel stays at home.
@@Richard-qe7st I’ve also experienced this, which just makes me question the whole integrated one piece stem/bar for most riders. I had a parasite infection which set my training back several months, if not close to a year. Before treatment my hips, knees and back were so stiff I felt like I needed to switch to a smaller frame. After treatment, I was back to normal, but ended up changing stem lengths and bar widths because I had gotten better physical therapy and found a better saddle. I’m still looking for a better saddle, which may require yet more changes, who knows.
You guys r freakin amazing ! You know what you're talkin about , honest and credible ! You guys definitely have a future in this genre ! ( I have a 2017 TCR - alot of bang foe my buck )
With the Propel being faster and the Defy now much racier than before it does make you wonder why the TCR exists. That said it’s an iconic bike and it would be a huge risk for Giant to just ditch it.
The TCR was so squeezed by the direction the Propel went (Aero/weight SL7/8 type) and then the Defy. I have a previous generation TCR, which I got on sale via a bike to work scheme because it can fit a 32 tyre and our team often do the Roubaix sportive. So wider tyres in a race geometry bike & weight reduction seemed the only position for it. Thought tyre width space may be a little bigger ' though not sure at what point making space for ever wider tyres will effect chainring size. I guess it will be interesting if they run the TCR at Roubaix with 32's or the Propel with 30's given the flat course average speeds and small groups favour aero but the cobbled sectors favour the wide tyres. Given the Propel has won mountain stages and chucking in lighter wheels & the New 1 piece bar/stem will get it close to the UCI limit in the Yates bike sizes the TCR may see little world tour action. So will it remain as the race bike for masses or is that now the Propel or Van Rysel?
A great episode lads, it was quite enjoyable. I've had a TCR in the past, so I know just how well it performs going up hill and the sharp handling and cornering ability it has in fast descents. At the current price point, I would have expected the one piece bar set up being the standard for the Advanced SL0. As an industry leader in manufacturing, it is disappointing to see that Giant have chosen to go with hookless rimed wheels...and of course removed the rim brake option. About the only positive thing about the 'new model' is the ISP and tidying up the cables. Everything else is just hocus pocus, smoke and mirrors for the average punter.
Here are my thoughts on the new TCR. It's gotten a marginal gains update - this just proves that the now "old" model was an already very optimized platform. Which means the value proposition was probably better than we all talked about already... I also prefer the look of the old model - it was much more organic in its curvature. New model reminds me of a lower tier Scott bike.
As someone who rides the TCR everyday… I had my fingers crossed for Giant to not give it the “aero” makeover and I am glad they didn’t! Aero is so overrated on a road bike and as someone who likes riding bikes for fun, a nimble light bike is ANYDAY better to ride than a heavier “aero” wind-tunnel optimized bike.
Re the comments on the TCR and the pros feedback around “snappy” being more desirable . As a couch warrior my view is that super aero is important if you’re solo, not if you’re in the bunch?
Miller are you going to do a Jasper verkuijl style race blog at Peaks?, a bit of a hassle but worth it for the show I reckon. If you want to have an enjoyable day at Peaks stick with the 9 hour crew, of course if you want a pb, get on the wheel of slane - he's a weapon. Look for Lee Turner he's really Mr Peaks. Weather is looking warm for weekend, its go time!
Cut my teeth on RUclips making fondo vlogs, keen to do one for peaks. Well aware of Mr Lane’s w/kg strength, I have the unfortunate pleasure of sharing the same masters category as him, absolute weapon. Looking forward to it, it’s given me a good excuse to start training for Brisbane and Grafton.
@@ChrisMillerCycling good one, so your plan is hang on to lane group if it turns to crap ... guys just need to get some footage, waiting for 9 hour riders😀😀 if I see you on the descent (aim is 10) I'll crank the hookless wheels over a bit more for jc.
What about a Giant TCX vs TCR and or a Specialized Crux? Both the TCX and Crux could be setup for club rides, weekend warriors, Gran Fondo rides and 2nd wheelset and it could do more.
Trying to wrap my head around what I think of the new TCR, I've got to ask, where does an aero matter on a frame. For a road cyclist, this would be for time trials (in which case, get a time trial bike) and for sprint finishes. Most road cyclists spend their time in groups, sheltered for the wind. In a race or drop ride, the split is usually made when the road gets hard, i.e. a steep climb. At this point, it is weight that matters most. So I think the TCR is Giant's GC bike and the Propel is their breakaway/sprint bike. I think back to the Aussie nationals that Plap won. He with shallow wheels, losing the aero benifit for the weight benefit and got away on the hill to win. That makes the case for the TCR. Also, as Norcal has shown, 32mm tyres are faster than 30mms. That possibly negates the aero benefit of the Propel? Final note, the Propel gets notably heavier as you drop down to the lower tiers.
Even in group rides, every time you hit the front your burning more watts than someone on an aero bike if your not. Assuming your riding in a 35+kph ave bunch. Probably means you swing off earlier 🤷♂️
Cadex wheels require service that not all Giant locations can or are allowed to perform requiring postage which is an out of pocket expense unless you physically live in the city that handles them. Furthermore the spokes are carbon and if you’re travelling to a race you’ll want to purchase spares as it’s unlikely those will be in stock. How safe carbon spokes are when they break (pothole etc) is unknown and I’d focus on those as just important drawback as hookless is
The pro thing hits the nail on the head. Im not a pro, never will be, and ill never put out pro power. I love the tcr, have one of the previous gen to this and its a sweet bike. But we are also influenced by pro riders like it or not, and the fact that the jayco riders choose he propel over tcr even for hilly stages tells me everyrhing i need to know and when i think about racing local crits and road races i cant help but think about that
They should’ve just renamed the Propel to the TCR on the latest release and been done with it. I have a TCR I love, but there is zero reason to buy one instead of the propel.
If you were choosing which bike for pros in a race: If the stage finishes in a climb and your riders are staying in the bunch you choose lightweight every day. If any of your riders are going on the front THEY ONLY use the aero frame If it finishes in a sprint or you’re planning on putting the team on the front they ride aero bikes Argue if you like but if you do you give away your lack of aero training
What’s the speculation on Treks announcement of reducing their range by 40% will that include the top end road bikes? Or be more focussed on lower end?
Isn’t you guys that wants the brand to keep the Aero and the climbing bike as a separate product? Since the sprinters would definitely choose the aero and the GC on the long mountain stage would definitely choose the TCR? . Maybe in 2 years, after my SL7 run out of it’s breath, I’ll be back to TCR..witha 30% discount . Direct competitor: Cervelo R5..and since you got one, a comparison review would be great
I’m wondering if Giant and Orbea (new Orca) are embracing a similar design philosophy. Are they ahead of the game? Light with enough Aero to make a difference?
Worth noting: Advanced SL 0 retail price in Australia is $13799 AUD ($8994 USD). Same bike in USA is $12500 USD. I can't explain that price difference... Those not from Australia may not be as stoked with the value as we are here.
Wait so it is cheaper fly from the US to AUS, buy the bike, and fly back for less than it costs in the US.
This constantly happens in the clothing retail world between USA and Canada too. The canadian suggested retail prices are always too cheap compared to the US/CAD exchange rate
Similar is the case with motorcycles, Honda adv 160 is $3000 in Philippines with a better spec(rear wheel disc instead of drum), worse spec adv 160 is $4500 in the US.
In Germany, the top-end TCR is >20% more expensive than the top-end Canyon Ultimate!
Giant is even cheaper in China
I work in a bike shop and while I can’t specifically speak on the TCR (we are a specialized dealer), I can tell you that in our shop the aethos outsells the tarmac 5 to 1.
The reality is the vast majority of road riders do NOT race. They want a light, snappy, comfortable road bike that feels good to ride. 9 times out of 10 they want to adjust the fit, having a separate bar/stem makes that cheaper and easier
Bingo.
Well they have a better option out there in the form of the DEFY
It seems that the domane, ultimate or the crux should be the bike of selection. Super wide capacities and made for the average users
In Indonesia, Helios, TCR, supersix, and emonda still the most popular type. But with resurgence of ultra cycling/randonneur, Domane, Caledonia, Aspero, Defy start to outsell them.
@@bernardo9202the defy isn’t as cool as the S-works name.
The fact that you would even consider the defy, tells me that you don’t understand modern day average user lol. Modern day cycling is about having a cool bike as a cool toy to show off on rides; your fitness or rides you do is a secondary consideration that you might brag about, but no one really cares about.
If your local scene is however made up of the opposite, then it’s highly likely that your country just isn’t a market that the bicycle companies care much for. More than willing to bet that getting parts during Covid like 12spd di2 etc was a headache there, compared to some other countries where it was on the shelf for the picking.
I love that this channel has become the bike reviewers review channel
This channel is 90% “it’s just froth” and the other 10% is hating on absolutely everything unless it’s top of the line or best of the best
„it is the same bike, it us just lighter, stiffer an a bit more aero“
wtf should they do jessie? putting wings on it
yet u ppl keep coming back lol
@@brandonvillegas9249and this is why we come back. Because we love to hate.
@@mrcha0s yea buddy. Not hating just giving constructive criticism. I watched this channel for about a year and just got bored of all the hating THEY DO. Like they’re the character people are referring to when people say cyclist are a bunch of elitist snobs.
Luke Plapp was riding a TCR today at Paris Nice....
Plapp
To me, the TCR doesn't make sense as a second race bike. The Propel seems, on paper, to do it all.
But, I have a TCR and I absolutely love it. I know that it's not the fastest bike, but it looks awesome and feels amazing to ride.
Given it's history, it's developed a cult following, and was so cutting edge in the beginning.
I applaud Giant for continuing to make a bike that doesn't necessarily make sense, but people still love.
I'm going again this week (sorry)... You've gotta talk about Jasper's haute route vlog series... The best videos going round at the moment. So good what he's bringing us
Gotta get jasper on the show
absolutely !
You hear pro-teams talk about picking a bike for when the race is going to be decisive. So a GC rider might pick the TCR because he's going to spend all day in the wheels, then when the race actually kicks off it's on a 9% climb and the weight savings matter more than the Propel's aero advantage. You could also claim that the TCR would be more comfortable for that rider over a long tour, and that might keep him a bit fresher.
Yep I’ll be sticking with my 23 tcr pro.
My best friend had the old propel and swapped to a 2021 TCR, other than being much lighter most of the reason he loved it was the way it rides.
There’s something about the way a bike rides that can’t be captured by the type of data that marketing and testing love so much, and I think for most of us ride feel is a metric that we value over outright speed.
I think most racers won’t be able to appreciate or care about it. It’s the same reason why I bought the aethos. Yes, it’s light, but that isn’t the main reason why one should buy one.
Luke just took yellow at stage 4 of Paris-nice on the the new TCR.
Super pleased to see the new TCR makes me want to keep my 2023 TCR...
Cade Media conveniently don't tick the box that says "Paid promotion" on their sponsored videos. They'll probably say they forgot, in reality it is for the algorithm.
Great fan of your work and seeing your comments across cycling RUclips, stay real 👍
Don't even watch Cade Media anymore. It's like the Temu version of GCN now.
@@eto2352💀DAMN hahahahah
They have a paid promotion mentioned in their latest video for decathlon.
@@eto2352 That's a bit unfair. The Wild Ones podcast is a lot of fun. They have Mechanic Nick on quite a bit and he doesn't push product. Neither does Bikefit James.
Besides, GCN do a pretty good job as a cycling magazine channel. They're entertaining and fairly informative. And it's all free!
It exists because we don't just ride bikes on flat surfaces by ourselves. We care about comfort, dancing up hills, and the ability to hammer.
Hmmm regarding TCR in a bunch ride unless you are at the front the 10watt saving would be zero watt difference to TCR 😷 so as explained to you by PT !
Random points as a TCR fanboyz:
- the new version, like the previous one, just looks fantastic to me. Good enough selling point.
- On release day, Giant must be delighted that Luke Plapp just rode his way to the GC lead of Paris-Nice against a stacked field.
- Hookless wheels are probably the dark spot om this bike. Funny that on the own photo of the Cadex wheels release, the new Cadex Tyre list 95 psi as max pressure (probably true on hooked wheels), but poor Joe bloke not aware of what hookless is might be in for a nasty surprise if he goes 90+ psi...
Chris says that LR and Benji aren’t gonna do grand fondos…
They’re both a few weeks from doing the full length Tour of Flanders sportive
The cold cutting technique is so a laser doesn’t cure the pre preg carbon cloth edges.
I agree the stiffness to weight ratio as well as value is Giant’s calling card.
Thank you. Makes sense.
Tour Magazin tested the new TCR at 221 watt. The 2021 version is at 227 watt. Both at 45km/h.
Already tested it in their wind-tunnel?!
Napkin maths checks out 👌
@@SamuelBlackMetalRideryes they did.
221w…. Now I am not sure whether I should get this or not. Shall I go to evo Hi-mod gen4?
@@nomad7719 Choose what makes you happy as a cyclist.
Hot tip, Giant's Japanese website lists the weight of their bikes.
Thank you 👍
かしこまりました！(^_^)
Thanks I just came to rant about exactly this. 5k on a push bike and they don't even tell you the weight. Bonkers the market right now..
I think you guys nailed it as far as doing a paid promotion goes 👍.
Short, to the point, no over the top claims or hype, done in such a calm manner that I actually listened/watched rather than instantly skipping.
The fact giant always specs the bikes with hookless wheels is why i bought my frame separately and my local bike shop build it up with my choices.
Over here in Europe, highest an Ultimate CFR bike with Shimano goes for is 10k EUR. Giant TCR is 12.3k EUR based on specs, and assuming it will end up in a similar price range.
The Giant US website lists the TCR Advanced Pro Frameset for $2100. That’s my jam.
I think the place for the TCR is really just that they've updated it for people who really want a TCR. Which is cool. TCRs are rad. It doesn't have to be a faster bike than the propel, or really lighter. Honestly like the market for most "lightweight" bikes these days when aero bikes are quite light too often. You've just got to want one cause you like how it feels or you think it's cool or it makes you feel awesome riding it.
The difference on frame is 5Watts from Propel to TCR so very very marginal. Most difference is from cockpit and wheelset
Your best video yet with the in depth look at the TCR, obviously I'm a fan of the TCR 😄
Tadej just soloed a victory from 80km out riding in an upright position compared to most. Brands are moving away from aero bikes and the rims are 30-45 deep - proven that over 40 shaves a few watts and is not worth it. Get with the times!
Tadej rode Enve 4.5s.
I'd encourage you to review their rim heights.
Most Remco solo victories were on shallow Roval alpinists.
The TCR having an ISP at top level seems like a one piece bar stem would be a no brainer. An ISP is essentially just a one piece frame and seatpost.
TCR is probably the best all arounder race bike on the planet for last 15 years. They improved it with small changes. Don't mess with a winning formula unlike Specialized adding a hideous wart to the head tube and calling it a new model.
TCR has been the best cost/benefit road bike for all time and good news will be in 2024.
PS. TCR not aero as you assert? Better watch Dave Arthur's personal TCR comparison in the wind tunnel compared to Trek's flagship aero Madone. There was nothing between them and this new bike has more truncated tube shapes. The dummy in the wind tunnel testing the new TCR wouldn't speak about testing with an integrated bar and stem. All the dummy would say is integated bars and stems are a bike maker money grab and for dummies.
R5
okay, so I see a lot of bike published data with watts saved at x km/h. As an amateur rider for a 50km-ish ride at best I'll average 30km/h on undulating terrain, I'll be riding between 20-40km/h pending gradient but really sitting about low 30's on the flat. I'd love to know if aero watt savings matter to any real difference at these speeds. I'm still leaning towards lightness over aero focus, hence why I'm guessing a TCR is a more sellable bike than a propel? Just a thought, I'm no expert.
Would manufacturers have anything to market between aero bikes and 'road bikes' if they published watt comparison's at 30km/h
Honest question regarding the S5: why do you say a shorter wheelbase makes it better for accelerating. I only have first year physics but afaik shorter wheelbase makes steering twitchier and allows you to fit into tighter spaces in a crowded peloton but does not affect how fast you ride or accelerate. Is it possible it's all in your head or am I missing something?
I’m pretty sure it’s because a shorter wheelbase generally means a shorter chain stay length which makes the acceleration feel more “direct”.
It feels faster. There's zero basis in physics for it. It just feels faster. Which if you're not racing, it may matter more how fast it feels vs how fast it is.
FYI speeds like 48km/h are from selecting wind tunnel speeds based on imperial speeds, that is 30 mph. You mention this about Cannondale results.
Day early suits me fine as cade media/gcn tech & this podcast all drop on a Thurs around the same time.
Really enjoyed the nuanced observations you guys had about the new TCR. Top level analysis chaps!
Nero TCR chat a day early, let’s goooooo
New TCR will sell like hot cakes.
It's funny how the once "revolutionary" TCR now has a timeless look and appeal.
Mr Arthur pretty much said he liked the feel of the TCR and that he preferred the ride to the propel.
Shame I bought a Revolt last week.
I never seen you guys dive so deep into data and analytics, must really like the giant, but when the specialized launched you focused more on the marketing….someone has a favorite brand 😂
Specialized gets enough hype but a price many don't want to pay, I liked the indepth look into a bike I'm much more likely to buy.
In the words of Jesse from a month ago: "What's got them so aroused?" ruclips.net/video/xd3wnyFLDHQ/видео.html
They just hate specialized. Still, i like watching those two guys. And bought a sworks sl8. So i am on your side Grand 😉
@@michprent Don't hate Specialized at all, did 10 minutes discussing how good their new helmet and shoes are 2 weeks ago!
@@nerocoaching i am sorry JC. You guys just hate the Tarmac sl7 and sl8. Just because, "its such a good bike" 😂😂
I’m in the market for a new bike (keen on Ultegra Di2 and something a bit stiffer and lighter than my current bike).
Narrowed it down to:
Giant TCR Pro 0 / Canondale SuperSix Evo4 / Specialized Tarmac SP7 Expert / Canyon Ultimate SL8 CF
My bike mechanic said to stay away from Canyon - he believes quality is hit and miss.
Specialized is $1.5k more, with worse wheels, alloy handlebars, and no powermeter.
The Supersix Evo looks great (albeit more expensive), but they don’t offer demo rides, and I’m anxious dropping $9k on a bike I can’t test.
That leaves me with Giant (either Propel or TCR). Most people seem to think the TCR suits my riding type - hills, 40-80km rides, occasional group rides.
I don’t get all the hate for Giant. It seems like great value for money, a quality bike, and they manufacture frames for most of the other manufacturers. It’s the Corolla of bikes - value for money, reliable, quality build.
Totally off topic guys but just fyi, your show is the only show in you tube I can play RUclips Picture in Picture on my iPhone. Very handy feature, I don’t have a premium RUclips account so surprising. Doesn’t work on any other videos.
Me too!! How tf is that possible ?!
Use the browser version of RUclips, many browser offer native picture in picture for media. And then you can play it in background for free !
Same here. Thanks for the tip.
Haha yeah, that’s odd but great!
Sweet. Thx bro
seeing heart rate of Chris doing 300+ watts, #respect
You guys in Australia are getting a bargain with the top spec SL at AU$13,800. That bike is C$15,500 in Canada even though the AU$ is at an 11% discount to the C$. Your AU$13,800 is roughly US$9,100 at the current exchange rate. Americans could travel to Australia, buy the TCR and fund a good portion of their vacation with the money they save on the bike.
I saw the same thing with the Revolt Advanced Pro 0 in 2022. I asked someone at Giant Canada what was going on and they said that Giant lets each country set it's own price. I found that hard to believe, but it seems to hold here.
I’ve had two and just bought another (SL1)use it for everything, 3 peaks, commuting, bike paths, Sunday morning etc. There are also discounts that makes the price very competitive.
Just a thought. If you can fold yourself in half and train to be tiny, then what is under you makes less of a difference, in that case, get a fun, twitchy/snappy TCR. If you are a sit upright sail, then any gain you can get into the wind pushes you to the aero bike.
I’d love to see some more testing. If it rides well and it’s lightweight I think there’s a real niche for it. Greater range surely means better consumer choice.
I like it. I'm a 60kg rider and aero doesn't matter on race day when I'm riding behind someone else.
I can hold wheels all day, and use the lighter bike when the climbs come. I won't be winning any flat races either way.
I like the aeroad a lot, simply because of the looks. I was waiting for the new TCR to finally choose what I would buy, but the fact it comes with a hookless wheelset is a dealbreaker. The tyres are also shit. I will still try to negociate with the bike store to see if they change the wheels, but I doubt it will happen
With so few difference with previous version, why not get an outgoing model that surely will be discounted hard now ?
they definitely will change the wheels, in my country they do.
Aeroad is heavy. SL8 or Supersix EVO 4 are light and aero too.
@Gianniz27 SL8 is too expensive for me, unfortunately. I'm looking at 105 level builds. But it's definitely the best option for a rider like me
@ozgurinsan After this I contacted them, and they said they would swap the wheels. Thank you for your input
Well I'm looking at the entry level TCR, and it seems a great deal if you go with some TPU inner tubes, GP 5000 and some elite 40 wheel set, you can take almost a 1kg to the stock option. From 8.3kg, stated by the japanese Giant Website, to around 7,5kg for 3.5k€ There aren't many bikes that can compete. And with so much options on integrated handlebars from China, like the EXS, Avian, Farsports, you can cut even more weight and make it even more aero. All out 4k€. Only beaten by those new Van rysel, Cube and Canyon options
Cannondale Supersix Evo 4 sells at 2700 EURO in the EU. From 8.5kg to 7.5kg also possible to rebuild.
The new cannondale, is one of my favorites, but, the colour on that one is just ugly imo. Hope more brands go the Ridley or orbea way, and let you choose your own paintscheme @@Gianniz27
Giant needs to explain themselves regarding those press images of the one piece bar and stem.
The bike is 4 watts faster than the old model and all they did (which I like) was internally route the cables.
The Specialized Roval one piece is 6 watts faster than the 2 piece bar and stem combo.
I don't believe Giant did their testing with the 2 piece bar and stem.
Agreed for the trek emonda the one piece bar is the majority of the aero gains from the previous model, so I’d be interested to see what it is without that bar.
Tour Mag tested it at 221 watts with separated bar/stem. Old one did 227 watts.
@@Gianniz27 could you link the test I hadn’t realized they already tested the new tcr id be shocked if they got 6 watts off that bike just saw one in person next to a old one and they basically are the same
I have to say I'm excited by the TCR and I've never ridden a Giant bike in the past. I don't need all out aero. I have a separate race bike for crits and road races. I just want a lightweight, fun bike to ride for my everyday rides. I want a bike that excites me to ride and just gives me an enjoyable ride. And I'm also excited about the price. A similar weighted Aethos (strikes for exposed cables) or SL8 (speed sniffer eww) is $1700 USD more expensive. Pair this with the new Cadex integrated cockpit and my carbon spoked wheels with 30s, and you got a sub-6.8kg fun bike to ride.
I bought the 2021 TCR as my second bike because of the price, the external cable routing is nice for maintenance and I like having a separate bar and stem. The only thing I don't like is the hookless rims.
Regular internal routing*, not external. External is what you see on the Condor Italia RC and Colnago Arabesque.
Tell me what happened with the hookless rims. Mine have been fine.
Just as people like the TCR for its responsiveness "when I go, it goes"... so too I love the Canyon Ultimate (2016); just a super responsive and *rewarding* ride that rewards your slight surge with "come on, let's go!"
In the EU the Ultimate is the TCR.
For me the differentiating factor bewtween tcr and propel is in the mid to low tear specced bikes. Where the weight difference is around half a kilo which can be significant depending on your riding. Whereas for pros..yeah its always the propel.
I abandoned the race geometry a couple of years ago. I had a 2014 Giant TCR aluminum frame back in the day. I liked it, but it was too twitchy for the type of riding I do. I'm much happier with my Felt Breed "adventure" bike with road tires.
When comparing to Canyon´s Ultimate: In Germany, the Canyon is cheaper than the TCR. And the Ultimate has the adjustable cockpit which allows the normal consumer to slam the stem and adjust the width at home without going to a bike shop.
Love the Show; My Canyon Aeroad (2017, Rim) is 6.6kg (race mode), performance uphill is amazing: eg. i did the Hill Chop with you guys before x-mas, it was up the hill i felt the best and wasn’t going to be dropped there; when aero bikes go sub 6.8 i will buy one
One point I I feel was missed is that with all the layup and factory tour focus, the TCR almost wasn't launched at just riders but also launched at other bike companies as an advertisement to build their bikes at the Giant factory.
Really highlights the difference between Aus and UK pricing. Top spec TCR SL and top spec sworks SL8 are the same price in the UK!
In Europe, the top range Ultimate, the CFR Di2, is 9.999 Euros. Meaning 2.300 euros (3.800 AUD!!!!!) cheaper than the 12.299 euros top range Giant TCR SL0.
I really enjoyed your TCR conversation and I agree with Chris that Giant is missing the promo boat by failing to give Jesse a new one, no strings attached, for his Giant patronage and promotion. And for me, no hookless is a new must, way too much bother with corporate tire rules and regulations and if they can derail for pros with a truckload of bikes and mechanics, we don't stand a chance at high speeds by our lonesome on some backroad, no matter the press releases and happy dances. And doesn't the popularity of this bike perhaps rest on brand loyalty? Giant is a great brand, in league with the other handful of giants, and it would seem that a new TCR would simply prompt Giant loyalists to make something good happen for themselves and their favorite bike brand.
Does aero matter for the 150 riders in the race that never leave the peloton?
In most GC stages it takes a hill to break up the race
After watching the episode i checked prices of the new TCR Advances SL and something went wrong in EU. In Australia Price for TCR is 13800 AUD and In Germany 12300 EUR and EUR/AUD=1.65 as of today. It basically means that TCR across Europe is 50% more expensive than in Australia ... Maybe it is time to make a private import :P
I have no idea where you get your prices and how you chose to compare but in US the Canyon Ultimate CFR Dura Ace is $9999 and the Giant TCR SL Dura Ace is $12500, Ultimate SLX Di2 Ultegra is $5799 and the Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 with di2 Ultegra is $6500, you have it all backwards when comes to value for money, nothing against Giant but their bikes are not cheaper than Canyon, any trims , welcome your comments
About integrated seat posts- so you dial in your position, seems convenient for now. But what happens in a few years, when you have to get new shoes, and oh no, they don’t make the exact same shoes anymore. So your fit changes because the shoes are different, and now you’re not as dialed in. Maybe shoes aren’t a great example, but what if you run expensive power meter pedals now, and they need to be replaced in a few years. What if you want to switch brands of pedals? What if you decide to get narrower bars, which changes your seat position a bit that you want a different saddle? I might be bringing up little things, but marginal gains are what integrated seat posts are all about. I don’t think single use/single purpose marginal gains are worth sacrificing versatility for the majority of riders.
You do get a few mm adjustment wiggle room with ISPs, but I'm with you. It's kept me from taking a cracking deal on a used TCR before.
Also annoying for travel
I don’t think you even need to go that far. Over time, depending on your fitness and flexibility at the time, your position changes. I had an ISP on a Wilier a number of years ago. It was a pain. It is also more painful for travel, but I think the arrival of internal wiring, integrated stems and disc brakes has made travelling with your bike a very tough option these days. I keep an old Ti travel bike with S&S couplers, rim brakes, traditional bar and stem, external brake splitters …. the Giant Propel stays at home.
@@Richard-qe7st I’ve also experienced this, which just makes me question the whole integrated one piece stem/bar for most riders. I had a parasite infection which set my training back several months, if not close to a year. Before treatment my hips, knees and back were so stiff I felt like I needed to switch to a smaller frame. After treatment, I was back to normal, but ended up changing stem lengths and bar widths because I had gotten better physical therapy and found a better saddle. I’m still looking for a better saddle, which may require yet more changes, who knows.
You get 20-40mm of spacers
Mr Coyle looks very different sans beard. I haven't owned a giant frame/fork bike for years but I might get a TCR down the track.
You guys r freakin amazing ! You know what you're talkin about , honest and credible ! You guys definitely have a future in this genre ! ( I have a 2017 TCR - alot of bang foe my buck )
With the Propel being faster and the Defy now much racier than before it does make you wonder why the TCR exists. That said it’s an iconic bike and it would be a huge risk for Giant to just ditch it.
Just a naming problem, call they propel the TCR and they’d have solved a bunch of problems and saved a lot of money.
The TCR was so squeezed by the direction the Propel went (Aero/weight SL7/8 type) and then the Defy. I have a previous generation TCR, which I got on sale via a bike to work scheme because it can fit a 32 tyre and our team often do the Roubaix sportive. So wider tyres in a race geometry bike & weight reduction seemed the only position for it. Thought tyre width space may be a little bigger ' though not sure at what point making space for ever wider tyres will effect chainring size. I guess it will be interesting if they run the TCR at Roubaix with 32's or the Propel with 30's given the flat course average speeds and small groups favour aero but the cobbled sectors favour the wide tyres. Given the Propel has won mountain stages and chucking in lighter wheels & the New 1 piece bar/stem will get it close to the UCI limit in the Yates bike sizes the TCR may see little world tour action. So will it remain as the race bike for masses or is that now the Propel or Van Rysel?
A great episode lads, it was quite enjoyable.
I've had a TCR in the past, so I know just how well it performs going up hill and the sharp handling and cornering ability it has in fast descents.
At the current price point, I would have expected the one piece bar set up being the standard for the Advanced SL0.
As an industry leader in manufacturing, it is disappointing to see that Giant have chosen to go with hookless rimed wheels...and of course removed the rim brake option.
About the only positive thing about the 'new model' is the ISP and tidying up the cables. Everything else is just hocus pocus, smoke and mirrors for the average punter.
TCR Advanced 2 still comes with rim brakes no?
Great episode, I still own 2 TCRs and Cervelo
I was the Hubbard yelling down Kent St Wednesday. Andy
Why haven’t you guys commented on Pogi’s “out of this world performance” ??? Pidcock was speechless “WTF”
Here are my thoughts on the new TCR. It's gotten a marginal gains update - this just proves that the now "old" model was an already very optimized platform. Which means the value proposition was probably better than we all talked about already...
I also prefer the look of the old model - it was much more organic in its curvature. New model reminds me of a lower tier Scott bike.
I race but mostly I ride with groups on hills so the tcr just seemed like a better choice for only having one fast road bike
It is time for the UCI to drop the weight restriction on pro bikes. We need a bigger separation between weight and aerodynamics,TCR vs Propel.
You just described the typical beach road punter Chris. Surges up every rise and freewheels the downhill. Explains why the TCR is so popular here.
isn't the TCR a stiffer(better) Aethos?
As someone who rides the TCR everyday… I had my fingers crossed for Giant to not give it the “aero” makeover and I am glad they didn’t! Aero is so overrated on a road bike and as someone who likes riding bikes for fun, a nimble light bike is ANYDAY better to ride than a heavier “aero” wind-tunnel optimized bike.
Re the comments on the TCR and the pros feedback around “snappy” being more desirable . As a couch warrior my view is that super aero is important if you’re solo, not if you’re in the bunch?
Miller are you going to do a Jasper verkuijl style race blog at Peaks?, a bit of a hassle but worth it for the show I reckon. If you want to have an enjoyable day at Peaks stick with the 9 hour crew, of course if you want a pb, get on the wheel of slane - he's a weapon. Look for Lee Turner he's really Mr Peaks. Weather is looking warm for weekend, its go time!
Cut my teeth on RUclips making fondo vlogs, keen to do one for peaks. Well aware of Mr Lane’s w/kg strength, I have the unfortunate pleasure of sharing the same masters category as him, absolute weapon. Looking forward to it, it’s given me a good excuse to start training for Brisbane and Grafton.
@@ChrisMillerCycling good one, so your plan is hang on to lane group if it turns to crap ... guys just need to get some footage, waiting for 9 hour riders😀😀 if I see you on the descent (aim is 10) I'll crank the hookless wheels over a bit more for jc.
What about a Giant TCX vs TCR and or a Specialized Crux? Both the TCX and Crux could be setup for club rides, weekend warriors, Gran Fondo rides and 2nd wheelset and it could do more.
Every time I see my TCR from side on I smile and it makes me want to ride. That is the secret. And bang for buck of course :)
Trying to wrap my head around what I think of the new TCR, I've got to ask, where does an aero matter on a frame. For a road cyclist, this would be for time trials (in which case, get a time trial bike) and for sprint finishes. Most road cyclists spend their time in groups, sheltered for the wind. In a race or drop ride, the split is usually made when the road gets hard, i.e. a steep climb. At this point, it is weight that matters most. So I think the TCR is Giant's GC bike and the Propel is their breakaway/sprint bike.
I think back to the Aussie nationals that Plap won. He with shallow wheels, losing the aero benifit for the weight benefit and got away on the hill to win. That makes the case for the TCR.
Also, as Norcal has shown, 32mm tyres are faster than 30mms. That possibly negates the aero benefit of the Propel?
Final note, the Propel gets notably heavier as you drop down to the lower tiers.
Even in group rides, every time you hit the front your burning more watts than someone on an aero bike if your not. Assuming your riding in a 35+kph ave bunch. Probably means you swing off earlier 🤷♂️
@@B00st672lol Propel and TCR is 5Watts difference on frame. Most difference are wheels and cockpit
29:08 So Jesse, what colorway are you going for? 😅 You know you want this bike!
which year was TCR in rim brake version still available ?
Cadex wheels require service that not all Giant locations can or are allowed to perform requiring postage which is an out of pocket expense unless you physically live in the city that handles them. Furthermore the spokes are carbon and if you’re travelling to a race you’ll want to purchase spares as it’s unlikely those will be in stock. How safe carbon spokes are when they break (pothole etc) is unknown and I’d focus on those as just important drawback as hookless is
Carbon spokes are more robust than steel
Maybe, but when they’re damaged, what do they look like?
When they do fail, what happens?
If they do fail, how do you replace them and who can do it?
Exactly right. Honest questions
The TCR top end bike is comparable price to all the top end bikes in the UK .... £12k 😮
The defy got so close to the TCR territory with the 2024 upgrade, the new TCR will not be a easy sell.
The pro thing hits the nail on the head. Im not a pro, never will be, and ill never put out pro power. I love the tcr, have one of the previous gen to this and its a sweet bike.
But we are also influenced by pro riders like it or not, and the fact that the jayco riders choose he propel over tcr even for hilly stages tells me everyrhing i need to know and when i think about racing local crits and road races i cant help but think about that
Is it possible that Giant holds back on the Propel’s development to be a lighter bike so they can protect the market segment of the TCR?
They should’ve just renamed the Propel to the TCR on the latest release and been done with it.
I have a TCR I love, but there is zero reason to buy one instead of the propel.
@@TheWoogerooPropel frameset are noticeable heavier but only 5 Watts slower at 45km/h
Do you reckon the harsh front end of the s5 is why visma run the soloist for the classics
The "I'm sticking it to you" crowd are riding old Supersix's and CAAD (pick a #)'s, or Winspace. That's crazy $$$.
If you were choosing which bike for pros in a race:
If the stage finishes in a climb and your riders are staying in the bunch you choose lightweight every day. If any of your riders are going on the front THEY ONLY use the aero frame
If it finishes in a sprint or you’re planning on putting the team on the front they ride aero bikes
Argue if you like but if you do you give away your lack of aero training
Are there any cases that can handle that frame, thinking of the seatpost here, if i want to travel by air?
What’s the speculation on Treks announcement of reducing their range by 40% will that include the top end road bikes? Or be more focussed on lower end?
Joy for JC, cheers Nero show!
Isn’t you guys that wants the brand to keep the Aero and the climbing bike as a separate product? Since the sprinters would definitely choose the aero and the GC on the long mountain stage would definitely choose the TCR?
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Maybe in 2 years, after my SL7 run out of it’s breath, I’ll be back to TCR..witha 30% discount
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Direct competitor: Cervelo R5..and since you got one, a comparison review would be great
What do You say about the difference TCR vs SL7 ?
The seat stays are ‘dropped’. It’s because of the steeper dropped top tube they align where they join.
Well, you ignored something too. De Gendts tire comes off, caused by a broken wheel, not because it was a hookless rim.
Guys have you rode both Propel and TCR? Propel feels significantly more boring to ride.
I’m wondering if Giant and Orbea (new Orca) are embracing a similar design philosophy. Are they ahead of the game? Light with enough Aero to make a difference?
Favourite episode yet
The hookless dilemma: I wonder if it is Zipp that has QC issue (and Extralite being hazy on tyre specs)?