Atheists Are Full Of Doubt and Arrogance?
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- Опубликовано: 24 фев 2023
- This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 27.07 for February 19, 2023 with Kenneth and JMike!
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I love when a theist projects their own insecurities and arrogance onto me.
ikr! The truest words ever spoken on this show from a host were: "You don't actually believe what you're saying and you're too arrogant to admit it."
I don't. 👍🏼
"atheists are full of doubt an ignorance."- a theist.
well that is psychological-projection at its best, let me translate it for you:
"i am arrogant and full of doubt, just like everyone else must be. no, you!" - a theist.
This is of course the mindset of a 4 year old or abused child, that demonstrates a complete lack of empathy (intentionally or not).
Def the sign of a narcissist; that type of person usually has some kind of insecure beliefs, but said person CANT afford to be wrong in their mind so they take those traits and place it on others. The guy couldnt even accept that a claim is a claim. He didn’t cite any scientific studies on life, on probabilities to god, he got so many facts wrong about the hosts.
It’s like he needed a boogeyman, a scapegoat, to make him look less stupid and arrogant.
And they can't even see it...
Imagine being called arrogant simply because you don’t believe the most perfect being in the universe wanted a personal relationship with you?
The arrogance of these callers blows my mind.
Also, how "perfect" is the being in question when 😏 "his design" allows for children who go hungry, get murdered, heck even the barrage of natural disasters we deal with constantly. What kind of sadist thought 🌋, 🌀 and random flooding was a "good" idea?!🤨 If he was all knowing then he knew all of this would happen, and went yep that's what I want. And oh, if you have the gall not to bow to me and my will then off to h*ll with you for eternity. Sounds like a monster to me.
He doesn't accept that someone else is honest unless they agree with his view of things.
@@cade377
Exactly.
The whole “the only honest atheists are those that agree with me” schtick is nonsensical.
And that relationship that perfect being wants with you is worshiping him
Zachs brain is proof that we are not designed perfectly.
Great Comment!!
😂😂😂
The massive weight of his blind, baseless arrogance and resulting wilful ignorance, was astounding. It wouldn't even allow him to hear, never mind acknowledge or address the substance of anything anyone said to him.
"I don't have a problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, intentional and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept."
- anyone who actually cares about verifiable reality
Hi Kenneth! Army guy here. Same experience. Went to Iraq. Met Muslims. Came home and went to college and took a deep academic dive into Islam. That turned into a study of ancient Christianity and religion as a whole. Basically, war lead to my deconversion from 25 years as a Christian. It’s like the opposite of the “no atheists on foxholes” idea.
"In foxholes".....its more effective!
Noah Lugeons made a good comment to the contrary, "There are only atheists in foxholes". Everyone uses the best tech and safety training to defend themselves, noone running into gunshots screaming "TAKE ME JESUS!!"
You did no research on dying rising gods, creation stories or the first monotheistic religion.
@@alanevery215don’t troll easy typos
@@thomasjames7568 I thought it was amusingly funny, so sorry, I apologise.
Zach's main question seems to be, "Why won't you let me insult you for not believing the same way I do?"
No, you don't really believe that. Deep down you believe the opposite you're just arrogant and won't admit it. And I know that because earlier in my life I had a conversation where I suspected that was the case with some other random atheist and since I'm stupid I just assumed the same thing about you.
Exactly right, and this is why I feel calls like these are exercises in reinforcing his beliefs, rather than honest attempts to proselytize or even debate. He knows that he can't insult someone into changing their mind but insulting them proves that he's right ... or something.
Every word Zach said i physicaly felt my brain cells dying. Omg
Indeed I felt it. It felt like he was more judgmental towards atheists so he could make them suffer and pretty much he is superior to atheists.
Listening to him fail to process the most basic of logical analogies was extremely painful. I could practically hear his neurons trying and failing to form new pathways. Elohim turns people's brains into mashed potatoes.
@@Byrvurra like in the game ancestors a humankind legacy 🤣
Honestly he was better than a lot of other callers
It was genuinely painful, especially the whole "one god" thing. Like that argument makes literally zero sense.
"You must agree with me or you are being arrogant" ... is the best argument ever!!!!
Utterly demolished with FACTS and LOGIC
I love how you flipped the script on him at the end and he IMMEDIATELY got offended 😆
I think the Uno Reverse/No-U is now my favorite strategy to employ on arrogant theists that make untrue assertions of what I know in my own mind.
It's because he's too stupid to realize his own bullshit tactics were being used against him lol.
That was ALL-STAR 💥
The saddest and funniest part of the reverse trap is that Zach was so completely arrogant that he didn't even understand what they were doing. He immediately fell into his own logical fallacy. It was like seeing Mohammad Ali rope-a-dope someone off the street. Zach blocked every shot with his face and didn't even know it 😂.
"Don't you ever say that..." the instant reaction. Perfect.
Zach is the worst most dishonest type of caller.
trolls got nothing on this guy.....
I doubt he's the worst. As for dishonest I'm not too sure because I think he lives in a chaotic mental whirlwind and has little grasp of the contradictions he embraces, essentially can't see them. It's a constant thought salad in his mind. Maybe when he is able to relax a bit he could become more contemplative and approachable.
See kids? This is what religion does to some people. (not to say it doesn't harm everyone to some degree)
@@chromolitho he's dishonest to himself and projects that dishonesty and confusion onto others
Maybe the worst, but I don’t think he’s dishonest.
He’s stupid and indoctrinated.
Maybe you’re talking about the fact that he didn’t call with an open mind.
He never claimed to be engaging in good faith.
He had (stupid) points to make, that’s why he called.
I think he was being totally honest. He's honestly this dumb.
As an atheist, I’m way too smart, knowledgeable and great looking to be arrogant.
Don't forget your well known modesty. 😂
Thank you, I needed the laugh!
I’m perfect it’s stupid to think I have flaws
😂😂
lol
A believer isn't in pursuit of truth, they've decided that they know what's true already - they've decided evidence isn't important.
Zach is the Arrogant one in this exchange. I do not accept your claim that an invisible sky father is responsible for creating anything without actually physical evidence. Zach's unsupported assertions without evidence should never be accepted by anyone.
Hard to imagine anything more arrogant than claiming to know someone else's thoughts.
That's something I never understood about atheists. It's not very difficult to realize you must have been premade, but for some reason atheists simply refuse to listen.
For example, why do you visit a doctor / hospital when you're sick? It's to help prevent the thousands of life supporting organs / genes you have from shutting off on you. You already realize you must have popped into existence premade, but immediately deny all of that once religion enters the chat.
I wasn't joking about this being an issue atheists refuse to accept either because science has already confirmed humans have 3,230 genes that can't be messed with in the slightest way because we'd die if they were messed with. The total number of life supporting genes is likely far higher as well because that study didn't include the life supporting genes that could slightly mutate.
There's also around 2,000 miscarriages and Sid's ( infants that die shortly after birth ) that happen every single day worldwide and most of them happen due to the Infant missing a life supporting part of their genome.
We absolutely had to have popped into existence premade, which is something even you agree with because you wouldn't worry about visiting a doctor otherwise, yet you can't seem to admit what you already agree with for some unknown reason
For the Bible tells me so. No evidence of a turd from God. But he is full of sht.
I do not accept you claim that this world was not created and just happened by accident. You have no proof of your claims at all. You don't have a shred of evidence to back any of your doubt up. Do you see how this works? You people are genuinely useless to humanity. Smug, arrogant, idiots.
@@Krikenemp18We all do just that all the time and not only in regard to theism/atheism. Sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong and, as is the case with all skill sets, some are on balance better at correctly discerning the thoughts of others than average and some are worse.
Attempting to fathom the thoughts and feelings of others is where the art of communication comes in, no?
"Why won't you take a leap of faith?" translates to: "Why won't you accept these claims on bad evidence?"
"Why won't you buy my invisible car?"
Not bad evidence but no evidence whatsoever.
exactly. They're mad that we recognize 'faith' as an admonition to believe what the intellect would normally reject.
Why would anyone accept any claim on faith? People accept religious beliefs on faith. There are multiple religions. Many of the claims of these religions are contradictory, which means at least some of them are wrong. That implies people accept false claims based on faith, so faith is not a reliable guide to truth. If you care about what's true, you must reject faith as a justification for belief.
Theist: “Why won’t you take a leap of faith?”
Atheist: “You are right! I am now have faith in Hinduism!”
Theist: “Not that faith, that isn’t what I meant!”
Atheist: “Oh, sorry, I am now Jewish Orthodox!”
Theist: “No!! I mean take a leap of faith on what I say only!”
Mike's anger is really justified. The caller doesn't know he doesn't know, and that is a dangerous volatile place.
Worse, he will NOT admit to not knowing, meare ignorance is fixable, wilful ignorance is a defence.
@@bodricthered Exactly, no cure for that
@@samuelbanti6614 yes there is - it is called a 9mm bullet. TIME TO CULL HUMANITY.
@@samuelbanti6614 Hi. I'm at least one of the many that got 'turned around'‼️😬
But y'know, this thing is like cancer.... Sometimes there's a cure as much as that can be had AND other times it's managed the best we can and others, well........not so lucky.
SO, no, I wouldn't give up on ANYONE‼️😬
@@rianmacdonald9454 Hi. Now now, had to go bringing guns into this❓🤔
Well, whoever you're shooting at has got access to guns too.
Really tho, I, along with many others, have clawed our way out of fanatical, literal interpretation style religion to see a better way forward.
I was a Bible major in a Christian college, raised in a 'Christian home', etc. which if nothing else gave me an inside look at things, useful when pushing back against fanatical, religious, literal interpretation ways of thinking‼️😬
"God did it with magic" is not an answer to any question
False, it is the answer to at least one question.
What never happened?
^^
Evil God believers.
It was funny when Zack got mad at the end when Kenneth turned it on him. He said "don't do that to me". Bro, you did that the entire call.
That was an incredible brainwashed caller. I admire Jmike and Kenneth's patience.
I wish I was that patient...
That is why i find muslims to be so frustrating, they are so deeply indoctrinated that they arent people when they talk this topic, they just spout the same bullshit.
The problem Atheists have is that they are just as ignorant about their beliefs.
EG: explain how life began?
@@rodofdiscipline1887 i personally have no believe about this topic. Based on pure logic it must have begun at some point due to some natural cause but more specifically than that? Nope, no idea.
Science on the other hands seems to have ot pretty much down. At least to what forrest said the last time a theist tried to make that claim.
So is your stance on god: i have no believe in him, but this is the explanation priests give", because if no then we dont have the same standard.
@@heinshaaine8153
Thanks for being honest.
Your fellow atheists will argue endlessly without evidence.
What a waste for a caller not wanting to be an honest Interlocutor.
The value is for those watching who aren’t in the spotlight or on the direct defensive who might think like Zach or even perhaps Zach himself one day watching back. Anyone can find value out of any of these, regardless of how any individual of us might think things went.
@@elecbass100 I meant a waste of time.
Interlocutor is the word you're looking for, I think. Interloper is someone who gets involved in a place where they're not welcome. Interlocutor is someone who takes part in a dialogue or conversation.
Sunday Assembly is an International Atheist founded 501(c)(3) tax exempt *church* . Irrefutable evidence that Atheism is a religion. Sanderson Jones (known as the atheist preacher) and Pippa Evans both self professed atheists founded and still run the organization.
“Interloper” 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Atheism is not arrogance.
It’s more like humility.
It's more like a default position to take unless you've been convinced to accept a bad explanation for things.
If there is a god, as he obviously is not showing up, he wants us to be seekers, scientists and philosophers.
and atheists@@user-vm5yk2js6w
Free thinking and more open minded as well
@@user-vm5yk2js6wI mean he created everything right? 🤷♂️
How to become an atheist:
1. Start thinking.
2. Start reading.
3. Do it with honesty.
Oh shit, we have the internet.
We were all atheist. Then got lied to.
Nope, none of that make U an Atheist
Is a good way to get there but now necessarily makes it the only way
@@andresfelipegaspar2980
Can agree, only if your "necessity" includes the need for truth.
@@2msystems740 men
Just like Christians you are mistaken Atheist with other things
There are flat earth believers who are Atheist
There are evolution negstionist that are atheist
.
Is not atheism related to studies and stuff, it is just not believing in God for whatever reason you have
.
And sure most scientist and smart people are Atheist, but there are as well scientist that have religious belief systems
So your point is useless by now
@@andresfelipegaspar2980wrong……. all of those can and do often lead to atheism
is this the first time JMike has lost it on a caller? I'm here for it.
It was worth waiting for
The sort of arrogance where one assumes to know what you are thinking is infuriating enough to make many people lose their composure. It kinda traps you inside your own mind somewhat, because you can't argue against it, even though you know as a certainty that it is false, and you have all the required evidence to prove that, except your interlocutor will not have a bar of it, preferring instead to believe whatever BS they brought to the table.
I really loved his comments. He was spot on about all of them.
I just discovered this page yesterday and I've gone through so many emotions. Being at the start of my deconstruction process, I'm so thankful people and videos like these exist.
what deconstruction process? from Bible people or something?
@@airplayrule I grew up in the church with people telling me to blindly trust what the Bible says. I've been hurt by many "Christians" and told I am wrong for existing the way I do. I've also been loved by many Christians and I absolutely acknowledge that. But I want to do the research, really examine what is being taught. Right now, I see more negative impacts on the world than positive in regards to the Bible and how it is weaponized.
@@danielleoelschlager6023 Yea, i had those arguments where people say follow Bible, but when asked for evidence, they cite the Bible (circular reasoning fallacy). this doesn't disprove Bible but it doesn't bode well for most people, like me.
I dunno what to say about them saying you're wrong for existing the way u do because i don't have enough info to judge. perhaps they're quoting God that you're doing something wrong, which isn't bad if they mean well because loving people means warning them of bad, but most people don't wana hear it, so i understand your reaction to it.
The problem is without any God given objective morals, everything is just the laws of physics, including weaponizing a book. there's nothing that's objectively immoral, negative, unethical, bad, etc. because people will define things like that differently, or agree but say they're not obligated to follow anything because if they're able to violate any of those terms (or other terms like do no harm etc. that people sneak in as part of circular reasoning etc) n don't care n get away with it while maximizing their resources n reproduction, then they say too bad for u n other victims who disagree.
I've spent many years researching all this stuff, n more, like non Abrahamic teachings like Buddhism n Vedic Dharma. I realized there was so much I didn't know or misunderstand, thanks to faulty main stream understandings people have n spread.
how about u? n are u interested in learning?
@@airplayrule I'm slowly learning new things, but it takes time. Right now my focus is doing so internally and doing my best to live my best life while respecting others. I'm not at a place where I can say "there's nothing in the world on a higher spiritual plain" but right now, it's about breaking down what has been forced on me since childhood. And in terms of who I am that I referenced before, it's about a range of human rights beliefs, LGBTQIA+ community, and so on that "Christians" like to use the Bible as evidence against our rights. And have historically (and continue to) severely damage communities of people for just existing.
@@danielleoelschlager6023 Slowly learning can be great.
If there's no God given objective morality, then terms like respect, rights, damage etc. can also be disagreed upon regarding how u define them, or why people should be morally obligated to follow them if they're able n willing to not (my last comment explained it better). Russia is pretty secular n is able n willing to crush gays for existing, n without God given morality, there's no objective moral source beyond your feelings n words vs. theirs.
By the way, somehow I knew it was an LGBT issue, n the "sneaking" terms as objectively wrong (no offense, i just used that word previously n dunno what other words to use) would happen, but I didin't wana assume.
I don't believe any of the major religions punishes people for just existing. I believe people are usually, probably mostly born gay. the major religions do warn people of all orientations to control their actions though, n that ideally no 1 has intercourse except for reproduction within marriage, but hell is not eternal, n Buddhism n Vedas explain why people are born gay. there's a channel working on vids to upload about all we talked about, n more, later.
The whole reason I've been an atheist since childhood is because I'm incapable of believing things simply by choice, I need facts, evidence or at a very minimum something to at least to make sense and be logical. So for me atheism isn't a choice, I'm unable to just make myself believe something. Its mind blowing to me the amount of people who can adopt beliefs with no basis and that don't even make sense, I can't count the number of people, mostly Christians, that have said to me "you just don't want to believe, you just want to disobey god". I really think people are just wired differently.
Actually, I think that it has more to do with indoctrination and how early in your life it begins. Accepting as true things that cannot be proven or shown with evidence to even be possible, much less likely, is the first step in changing how the brain functions. When we tell our children about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, god, etc. and tell them they are all real, we are teaching their brain to accept untrue things as true. Once the brain has learned to accept false things as true, it becomes easier for the brain to accept the next falsity as true. Yes, we all react to this slightly differently, but there are numerous studies that show this to be true overall. Those of us that were lucky enough to not be intensely indoctrinated to this at a young age have a distinct advantage over others. It is essentially the tactic that cults use to brainwash their followers.
Caller says,
"God's creation is perfect" and then later says, "yes, this world isn't perfection, that's for the next world." Uh, I need a doctor to fix my neck. It just spun 180 and I am not an owl. Help.
Zach is so brainwashed he thinks he has a reason to be arrogant AND ignorant. Very important call, so people can see how religion makes you not think about things.
@@jonc3214 I smell brain wash on your end as well. Good luck to you.
@@jonc3214 Zach is a muslim lol. So on the off chance that you were being serious, you're still stupid lol.
It's rich, a theist calling an atheist intellectually dishonest, I'd say it's more likely that theists are the ones intellectually dishonest, and not atheists.
He misses that Theists who become intellectually honest and find solid logical conclusions become Atheists.
well ... they Think they aren't ... and apparently it's just fine to do this to your children , all around the world
The religious dimension cannot be proved or disproved by intellectual arguments, unless those arguments accept that there may be a further dimension to their "reality." The relative speed of light should be constant, according to our experience. Einstein queried that, and he was right.
He got indignant when you suggested he "really knew it was not true" yet felt comfortable doing that to you.
"Intellectual dishonesty" could be a perfect definition of the whole Abrahamic tradition. It's a tool for steering people like Zach.
The key to LEARNING is LISTENING. The key to conversation is responding to what actually said.
Zach didn't want a conversation
@joshsheridan9511 thank you, Capt. Obvious.
Sunday Assembly is an International Atheist founded 501(c)(3) tax exempt *church* . Irrefutable evidence that Atheism is a religion. Sanderson Jones (known as the atheist preacher) and Pippa Evans both self professed atheists founded and still run the organization.
@electricspark5271 Catholic priests molested young boys. Irrefutable evidence all Christians are pedophiles. Are you stupid or pretending to be stupid?
Jmike and Kenneth couldn’t stop talking over each other
Poor Zach, thought that he'd hit a homerun, didn't realize that he couldn't even hit the ball off of the tee.
Nice mixed metaphor.
@@stevewhite6861 I got it.
Zach couldn’t even find the field.🙈
I literally came to say the same thing. Lol poor Zach. He couldn't even fully grasp his own concepts .
Off the tee? He was in the swimming pool.
Many of the problems we see today boil down to Zach's problem: Anger that people would willingly make different decisions than he does. The views of Mike and Kenneth have zero impact on his life but he's angry at them because they dared to make a different choice than him. You can apply that across the board to damn near any topic. I want to ban a book because I don't want to read it and you shouldn't have the choice to read it because I don't like that choice...
How people like Zach get through life is beyond me.
7:20 The perfection of the human tooth is my favorite. The way they rot, break and don’t grow back is a wonderful example of the human body’s perfection.
God has investments in the dental industry.
@@kensey007Teeth are good business for any God that enjoys killing its people. For most of human history, losing all your teeth from dental disease was the number one cause of death.
You forgot the wondrous "creation" of a species "created in a god's image" that has WISDOM TEETH... which KILL people with no access to dentistry.
Because Free will and stuff 🤦🏻♂️
.....my perfect teeth couldn't stand up to a man made baseball back in may of '71. been wearing man made prosthetics ever since.
I’m actually scared of Zach, he really couldn’t tell they were applying his logic at the end… that’s actually sad
It would not surprise me in the least if he becomes a religious based terrorist.
It did rather seem to go over his head.
As soon as they started, I was expecting some sort of special pleading as to why he was privy to the inner mental states of others, but atheists couldn't be. Instead, he just got angry. I didn't get the feeling he was aware what they were doing at all.
He was probably just a kid. As he grows older and can remember this conversation he’ll see where he went wrong, even if he remains a Muslim.
I almost gave up on this video because the caller was just too oblivious and my tolerance levels are low, but the actual reductio ad absurdum at the end made the 30mins worth while.
Thank you for that rare treat!🎉
Kenneth and JMike are the ultimate "good cop, bad cop" duo. This was very well done
i fully fell in love with JMike because of this call
Yes, JMike is mirroring my thoughts. This sounds like most conversations I have with theists. Most of them I know personally are peak dunning-Kruger.
If everything is designed, how can you tell since there's nothing undesigned to compare it to?
Word! 👍🏼
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Faaakkk… 🤯 That was so simple, and it goes in my prostlyizer smashing arsenal. I can't think of a counter!
I'm not sure if it was in this call, since I've been watching these back to back, but they did say that to someone and the guy simply did not register the idea. Like literally couldn't understand what they meant logically.
These callers are what's wrong with society.
💯
Thank you, Zach. I never knew what I thought.
Yes, how dare you be wrong about what you actually think. /s
Stamp collectors and their fear of the stamp-less.
You just hate the post office and want to rebel.
You got me, Angel. I HATE the stamp-less.
I wonder when the stamped and stamp less will ever get along?
If we have emails, why do we still have stamps? CHECKMATE ATHEISTS!
But what if he has to mail a letter? OMG!!! The horror of the thought.
When I hear the sentence, "Okay, are you done?" That's usually when I know that the exchange is going nowhere with that person. I usually only continue in the hopes of the exchange challenging someone over hearing the conversation.
Right! To me it means "I'm not listening to anything you say"
Zach is the 20 year old at the mall waiting to see Santa.
Ex Muslim here. Yep this is what I have to deal with on the daily.
But you understand it more because it’s probably ideas and questions you were using yourself
Man, you two were SO nice and patient with this guy.
Imagine if Matt was there...God wouldn't be able to save Zach from the sheer drubbing he would have gotten.
Gotten and deserved.
Matt is god
I'm glad Matt ISN'T here. These new hosts are a pleasure to listen to. The show is watchable again. Finally.
@@Tommyr Matt is not to everyone’s taste. That’s perfectly fine. Everyone has their style and he’s definitely a little more combative than some people like. I for one happen to like your style.
@@chuckeelhart1746 MANY MANY years ago Matt was great. Something happened and he turned into a prick. It's a shame.
I hope he's doing well in any case.
Mike's assessment of the caller towards the end was spot on. He's so confident that he's making sense.
“I’m going to troll you now using your own methods and you tell me how it strikes you”
Zach: reacts as if Kenneth hadn’t given him a head’s up.
Zach: “Just because you did not see the creation happen…”
So, Zach, did you see the creation happen?😈
I immediately thought about their "counter" to evolution: "How do you know evolution exists? Did you watch it happen?" If you have a flawed argument, I can easily forgive that. It happens, try to do it better. But if you use the same flawed argument for opposite positions...I can't take you serious. Either we don't have to watch things happen to know that they happen or we do. But don't say that you don't have to watch creation happen to know it's there and simultaneously claim that you don't believe in evolution because you didn't see it happen. Be consistent... if you apply the same flawed logic to all your arguments, all your arguments get fixed once the flawed logic is resolved. But if you are gonna be inconsistent throughout, now we need to tackle all arguments because not only don't you understand what a sound argument is, you don't even understand what consistency is....
The funny thing is, that one of the confirmations of the Big Bang is that we can actually "hear" it as the detection of a faint very weakened old "noise" coming from all around everything.
"You atheists are so arrogant. I know that, because I know what's in your mind better than you do. And if you (awful atheists) disagree, I know you are lying."
Yep. Sounds legit.
Edit: Kenneth's ending move was perfect. I don't expect it'll make a difference, but I hope it does.
This caller was projecting so hard, he could have opened his own theater. >_
Credit to Ken and JMike. I would have dropped him a lot earlier because I don't have the patience for that kind of crap anymore.
Gotta love it when guys like Zach stroll up utterly confident that they’re hot tish. You can hear the arrogance in their voice. They’re so certain that they’re going to blow minds with their glue and popsicle arguments 😂
Zach: universe is perfect. The human eye is perfect.
Host: my family member has vision problems.
Zach: look, its not perfect.
Bravo Zach, bravo🤣👏
At least he didn't go with the bs argument of "that's because we live in a fallen world". Which totally ignores the fact that something perfect shouldn't be able to degrade... at all, ever. Because it's "*perfect*"!
I mean to be fair he actually said something more to the effect of "god gives us challenges" or some BS like that. Still a total deflect but yeah
Our retinas are also attached backwards, which causes a whole host of problems.
@galenhuber9364 It's as if God added in defects as he says that it's for our own good. And that it hurts him more than us for him to introduce disease, famine, pestilence, and defects into everything.
@@galenhuber9364 the all knowing god who cannot fail, gives us tests & challenges to see what we will do next🤔????
I got goosebumps from j Mike's speech. Beautifully put. Exactly how I feel and the frustration I feel with everyone else's audacity without even realizing theyre messed up!
It was like Zach took the phone away from his ear every time they spoke and then just started telling them what they think haha I really hope he watches this back and realised how bad his argument is!
Holy crap, he couldn't even realize you were reversing his bullshit on him at the end there. *AMAZING*.
That is because the caller was never arguing from an informed position. They were just repeating talking points, from a script, that convinced them.
That call was CLASSIC Dunning Krueger in action.
Can you help me understand the athiest mindset on why you think everything wasn't created
@@pound4pound380 Another God of the Gaps script attempt.
Prove me wrong.
@@pound4pound380 "Can you help me understand the athiest mindset on why you think everything wasn't created" --
Usually insufficient evidence of your claim. The default position is "I dont know". If YOU claim it was created, then the burden of proof is on YOU to convince ME that your claim is correct.
Zach treats this human-to-human conversation like you can just press a pause button and start talking over people. It’s like Zach spends too much time on a computer and not enough with people, idk.
Can't you help me understand the athiest mindset on why you think everything wasn't created
Zach needs to RUN that script and NOTHING will stop him.
@@pound4pound380 God of the Gaps script detected.
Prove me wrong. ;)
@@pound4pound380 Because we don't project unneeded assumptions. Most of us believe that every observable thing was caused. That doesn't cause us to leap to the conclusion that everything was created. We have a cognitive distinction between the concepts of being created and being caused. We also don't leap from what we think about things that can be observed to things that are fundamentally unobservable, like the beginning of the universe. We also don't leap from the observation that limited phenomena seem to be be caused to extrapolating that the sum total of everything, the universe, must be caused. That would be a fallacy of composition. We are aware that there are constructs of reality, like the idea of a universe with an infinite past, that require no cause. And generally, we don't apply presumptions to establish beliefs about such topics, because we are aware that the state of human knowledge supplies no evidentiary basis for "beliefs" about such things. We are also aware that the insertion of non-explanatory hypotheses like "God" do not solve any epistemological problems.
@@pound4pound380 I don't see any evidence of any indicating that a deity of any sort has been involved in anything ever.
That was absolutely perfect the way you handled that conversation at the end! 👏 👏👏
You guys rock!! JMike, very well said as to why you should actively resist religious BS!! Keep up the great work!!
What really grinds my gears is that according to these people you have to have an answer for how earth and life exists, otherwise god is the default. No, I honestly don't know. But I don't think imaginary sky wizard did it.
We do know how planets are formed and why there is life on this planet though. That is why these theists are making less and less sense as times goes on. Science is finding answers to their silly questions every other day.
It’s pure reasoning to think “the universe has a cause, which we can call the creator”. We don’t need to refute atheists who don’t want to think.
All they have is a god of the gaps argument. Science fills the gaps in our knowledge, and their god that lives in those gaps gets a little smaller at a time. Theists are just retreating into the unknown alongside their god.
Well, it makes sense. No atheist can tell me what the best cake recipe is. So obviously that means that God is real. Right? Isn't that their argument?🤔
@@damonkenny3444
No, it's pure SUPPOSITION.
Zach has trouble thinking others wouldn’t think like he does, so he has to project what would cause him not to believe onto others, like an arrogance.
A longtime friend of mine essentially ended our friendship when she tried to tell me what MY atheism beliefs were, because she had definitions of atheism that fit what she wanted it to be. I pretty much told her to f off and how dare she tell me what my thoughts and beliefs are. She didn't even understand that there is a difference between agnostic and atheist, but oh well. 12 years later she just reached out to me last week to reconnect. I doubt it will go anywhere since she has yet to address what ended our friendship initially. We shall see.
To be fair she was indirectly correct about it agnostic thing. There's no such thing as "an agnostic" it hasn't been a noun for thousands of years. Agnostic is an adjective now, you're either a agnostic atheist or a gnostic atheist. You either don't believe in any gods but know it's impossible to know for sure if any exist, or you don't believe in any gods and you assert that you know for a fact that there are no gods. 99% of the time when someone claims to be "an agnostic" what they mean is that they're an agnostic atheist, because they don't hold any beliefs in any gods. Atheist is a label you have, not a label you choose.
You Guys Have FAR More Patience Then I Could Muster!
I’m FILLED with doubt.
Doubt that religion in any form will continue to be important one hundred years from now.
Religion will remain important to some, but it will be relegated to the position flat earth conspiracists find themselves in now. Hopefully.
I mean, they'll probably commit another genocide or two by then, to say nothing of the long term effects of climate change caused by people who believe that the earth is divinely protected that they will be calling with at that point.
Unfortunately I suspect it will always be relevant.
We’re trying to minimize the damage, it can improve but there will always be ignorant superstitious people who believe these stories.
The goal is to keep them in the minority and out of politics.
Way over optimistic. Unfortunately, bar a miracle(!?), religion will be around as long as people are
We can hope🤞
I’m not all that optimistic though.
He's trying to follow a script and leading the discussion and they won't let him so he's not actually able to make any points.
The points he has all boil down to the same thing as they always do which is "I don't know therefore God" and any argument against it, that we DO know, is met with "well you just worship science".
I wish people who didn’t believe in Frankenstein’s monster would just admit they don’t want to believe.
No, you’re just too arrogant to believe in Mothman and need to create false worldviews to hide from him.
thanks J Mike getting on a roll was brilliant thanks guys
THEIST: "I have a book here that says the g0d I believe in is real"
ATHEIST: "I don't believe any of that"
THEIST: "you are an ARROGANT person!"
Atheist: I don’t believe your book because it is written by man
Thiest: I don’t believe evolution because it was written by man
Atheist: No man it’s truth it’s science!!!!
Theist: ok, the earth is 4 billion years old, can you provide us with just one transitional fossil?
Atheist: … dArWiNs fInChEs
@In Defense of the Gospel
Transitional fossil? You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Evolution is a process that takes generations and is ongoing.
What we do have are fossils that are billions of years old that don't just disprove the young earth creation story but make an absolute mockery of it.
@@kairigby9117 ah, so why isn’t there any fossils of one species transitioning into another species? If it has been happening over and over for so long. Also why haven’t we seen any apes turn into humans in the last 6000 years of human recorded history? Or at least begin to evolve into humans?
@@latenitehvac868 I have a feeling that what you think is a transitional fossil and what the experts refer to as transitional fossils are not the same thing. For one thing, humans are still apes. Second, the ancestors that evolved into humans weren't trying to do so; neither are modern, nonhuman apes going to, or trying to. Long story short: look up what a transitional form is; don't merely listen to what apologists say it is. Just like you'd want me to look into what the Gospel actually says, rather than listening to what people who mock religion say about it... Right?
@@dcmbassi how are we apes exactly? We share more of our DNA with a banana 99 percent then an ape, 98 percent. Wouldn’t we be closer related to a banana?
Also it’s interesting that you need “experts” to tell you what to think. How do you know they are right? When you look to experts you are placing faith in people to be honest when you don’t actually know if they are
He’s so insecure about his belief that a person created the universe. Therefore, it makes him feel superior to claim anyone who doesn’t play pretend as he does is arrogant.
Can you help me understand the athiest mindset on why you think everything wasn't created
@@pound4pound380 because *created* implies somebody did it intentionally. That’s why.
Thanks for taking this caller to task about 'designed' vs 'undesigned' with no point of comparison. That has to be one of my biggest pet peeves about the argument from design, and I feel like I rarely see it addressed.
Zach is a great example of irony
According to Zach: Everything is designed by god.
So when I come along and come up with a better design on top of some other persons improved design based on some other persons design..., what does that say about this god designer - what it says to me is that this god designer either doesn't exist or at the very least is a terrible designer.
It says we are far more intelligent & competent than gawd. See? There's that atheist arrogance again, LOL
26:00 - This caller is the perfect case study to demonstrate the *Dunning-Kruger effect* 🤔
You two are fantastic hosts!
You lads were awesome on this one. Great call.
My kids are 21 and 25 now, but when they were little, Baby Jesus used to sneak into our house and leave dirty diapers lying around. I assume it was to test our faith or something.
The baby and the diaper was a great analogy for this caller, except he's not wearing a diaper and the shit's coming out of the other end.
Lol 😂
What a painful video to suffer through. Hosts deserve all our gratitude for having to endure the direct interaction. Zach was not going to listen or engage in any critical thinking of any kind.
Smack my head. Again. And again. Thanks for the LOLs JMike and Kenneth.
I love when a person who literally thinks they can read another person's mind calls others arrogant. I truly cannot think of a more arrogant position than the belief that you hold the most important knowledge any person could hold regarding god, and you also know the minds of others who claim not to believe in it on top of it.
I'm new and ngl thought Mike was a bit quiet...till now! Gave Zach the verbal slam he deserves 👏
JMike rant was chef kiss
JMike and Kenneth are awesome. They were very patient but they let Zach have it when he passed his place.
I have to say that if the religious among us were able to look at our world with truly open eyes that they would be amazed and humbled beyond belief at the power and mystery of the universe we live in. It's awe inspiring and they are missing ALL of it.
And I don't think I've ever seen JMIKE get so pissed.
I genuinely believe these people are trying to convince themselves their fallacy is true more than anything.
I agree with you. I've long thought many (maybe most) theists don't "really" believe. If there were actual real-world consequences for theism, many would denounce it because when they allow themselves to, they see the same utter lack of evidence we atheists do.
Mostly I'd say it's fear, not belief.
That makes more sense that anything else about this call!
The problem Atheists have is that they are just as ignorant about their beliefs.
EG: explain how life began?
@@rodofdiscipline1887 Unlike you apparently, I claim no knowledge about how life began.
Others, far more learned than I am in biology, are making headway on understanding the processes.
But not knowing that one thing does nothing to demonstrate the existence of a god. All I need to say is: _your god_ has not made a compelling case for "his" existence, and claiming that a book says otherwise does not make it so.
@@rodofdiscipline1887 "explain how life began?"
Explain how anything could be eternal, like a God.
And BTW - if we're ignorant about something, that's why we say "I don't know".
Easy, right?
True humility is admitting that you don’t have all the answers and true arrogance is thinking that you have all the answers when you don’t
Lol. They way he (Zach) justifies his specific monotheistic believe is hilarious. “It’s too perfect…” He’s presented evidence that it is not perfect and he moves the goal post…
I'm willing to bet that Zach did not hear a single point you guys made. While the hosts were rebutting his point A he just moved on to B and C.
And then repeated A again. And again. And again.
Zach the Earth is not perfect, the human body is not perfect and neither is the universe.
the end is really the cherry on Top.
He KNEW he was gona kill this phone call! He probably had a woody as he dialed. 😂
A creator that created something GREATER than the pen??? What's greater than the PEN???
Ink
It’s mightier than the sword, apparently. But, to be real, swords s are me a lot more..
The penIS mighty!
The four colour pen. I think humankind can't do better at all.
The sword, the gatling gun and nukes
You were both amazing on this call, really. Great job, thank~you!
Zach and many others like him take it so damn personally when people dont share their beliefs. I think its due to an underlying fragility and fear. They need to be reassured that they are right.
Jmike and Kenneth, i was glad that you started out with patience, despite the ridiculous statements and blanketed ad hominum attacks.
It was infuriating to listen to Zach continue this for 30 minutes, but man - did it feel good to listen to you guys correct the record.
The spiciness was completely warranted and even at peak spice levels, it was nice to see you were attempting to meet back at the table to converse, even if Zach wasn't willing to do so inba mature way.
Awesome call
Confidence is the currency of braggarts and charlatans.
Flipping the script on him at the end brought immense joy to my withered, black, atheist heart.
This duo is great! 😊 loved it!
I love it when JMike gets mad, and STILL remains concise. You go JM!
“Too arrogant to worship god…” The most arrogant people I’ve ever met were devout believers, like Zach. 😐
People who spend their entire lives telling others that they are broken, immoral, misguided and are going to hell if they don't subscribe to their unsubstantiated claims are the most humble of all peoples.