I had a dodgy landlord refuse to pay me for a ECR in a dirty flat because I failed it & he wanted a pass/satisfactory certificate to show the local council the next day, I stopped the ECR test & inspection when I found new cables joined to the old rubber cables, told him it needed a rewire & he said I cost him rental money by not giving him a pass/satisfactory certificate! After many requests for my 2 hours payment & him refusing, I told the council the flats were dangerous & they shut the lot down & fined him thousands of pounds!
Good for you and all the hard working tradesmen and ladies out there. We have to do the right job and look out for the tenants and buyers. I tell these investors to stop cutting corners and hold on to good professionals that are looking out for everyone involved. Take care.
Had a takeaway wanting new lighting throughout the store, priced it, was all good. Did the job, was offered food every day throughout the works, was offered drinks etc. Come to pay time and they 'had cash flow issues'... we said okay, we'll give you 21 days to pay up. Didnt happen, theres a fair where I live once a year, the opening Friday is their highest paying night of the year as they're busy. Walked in at 9pm and pulled the main fuse, cash turned up within 15 minutes.
That's why I had a mobile pin machine one me. Small jobs (heating engineer) they get to pay straight away. I've learned that people will pay straight away. If you give them a chance to use email, they turn in to internet trolls. First year working for my self spend 100 hours calling and mailing after invoices. After I got the pin machine, that was done. People don't dare to say stuff like that in your face. Well done. Great reaction. I was never that kind🤣
A few questions I always ask b4 Anything. 1. Is there parking ? 2. Are you the person responsible for paying the invoice 3. We charge x as a callout which inc x amount of time.. 4... if you agree to all of the above Text your Address to this phone number agreeing to the above terms.. the ones that don’t txt me good bye.. the ones that do I respect and Never give me Grief. 34 years of Vibes matey. Never fails me. My first EVER job done the cheque bounced ! I vowed Never to have the piss taken out of me. And remember it’s not how long it takes... it’s what you know. And sometimes who you know ! Good on you.
I remember when I was an apprentice I was sitting at a Hooters looking at the conduit coming from the service thinking, "That's sloppy as F*k!" then I realized I was sitting in a Hooters looking at conduit. Sh*t show? Try working on a mobile home. I had one that I chased my tail on for hours and finally found a non GFCI outlet mounted face down, outside, underneath, covered with fiberglass insulation, under the floor where a hot water heater had busted a year earlier. Nothing but pieces of charred crap in a wet indoor plastic box. Factory install. It was screwing up the outlets on one whole side of the 60 foot trailer. Since the outlets in a mobile home are junk when brand new I just replaced every one that I opened with new standard ones. I must have replaced about 10. The things you do for friends... When someone screws you like that the first time it saves you from ever having to work for that prick ever again. You're money ahead. Trust me.
Good vid, very reasonable way you behaved. I'm retired from it now, but I wasn't a spark, I was a valeter. A local pub landlord asked me to do three really shitted up cars, I turned up as agreed, at 0700, worked til 2100, the mid afternoon temperature reached 33'C that day, I got a cheque, then nearly a week later, I discovered it'd been cancelled. I remonstrated calmly, the bloke said I hadn't done the rear window on the triumph spitfire properly. I HAD, and tried to explain that it was plastic, VERY scratched and worn and would never come up like he seemed to think it might, he said he didn't care and the "whole rear window thing had soured his valeting experience!" A month later, after several very heavy duty valets, including shampooing farm-animal diarrhoea off the seats of a Defender, driving home after a night valet at 0430, the spitfire is outside the pub, near the main road, so, I emptied the contents of my numatic George all over it! Bonnet, boot and vinyl roof! ... contents which included the sheep shit, cooking fat, pet hair, soot, OAP piss, sticky sweets, old coffee, tons of dust, grit and cola. About 8 ltrs of gloop all told. Naughty... but incredibly satisfying...! 😆😆😆
I'm now retired after 35yrs contracting. There will be many occasions a client won't pay or want to renegotiate after completion, but, as you say, with experience you start to get a warning sense for it from the moment you arrive, sometimes even on taking the booking. I reckon any job that another electrician has recently worked on (let alone 2 electricians) carries a very high risk of non payment, a "difficult" customer, or hidden issues that are going to be time consuming and costly to correct. It's just not worth the risk. There's only one thing worse than having no work, and that's working in a shit hole and not getting paid. As You are dead right to walk away and refuse more work from this client.
You should always state up front when a customer is requesting service that there is a charge just to show up on site and a second charge per hour on-site charged in quarter hour increments. The real problem that you faced was not going on-site to assess the situation beforehand to give the customer an estimate. You could charge an estimate fee that is refundable if the customer agrees to have you perform the work.
Have had customers in the past come in to the shop, I spend say 40 -60 minutes diagnostics and fixing the software issues. At the end they ask do I owe you anything? No mate I survive on fresh air. lol
take them to small claims court if you are not going to do any work for them again, you can't loose with the evidence you have, also contact the local council and let them know, just what kind of death traps this agent is renting out.
Tom, I have had the same experiences many times with clients who did not want to pay my hourly rates (as a professional forester) to work on their property! I always said to them, you are willing to pay up to $80 an hour for a plumber to put in a new toilet (NO DIS to plumbers, I love you guys/gals!) but don't want to pay me $50 an hour to devise a harvest plan for your wooded property? What I decide to do can determine what happens up to 50 or 100 years from now?? I went to school for 6+ years to learn what I have in my head and you don't want to pay for it?? WTF?? Keep up the good fight for all us trades people Tom! Love ya:) ☮🙃🐱
Really appreciate this video Tom. Being declined payment is the worst thing to go through as it's a sense of theft really I hate it when you fit over £1000 worth of downlights and not get paid hence why I don't work work for builders anymore and any work I do so is either confirmed via email with the quote or a signed contract. Thankyou for this video as it helps new comers to this industry 😊
Firstly I would have secured the power off before leaving due to the risk level on such a dangerous installation & I would be notifying the DNO & local building control of the situation. Secondly, I would have written into the invoice what I had done - e.g. "Requested installation works aborted due to hazardous installation - supply isolated & DNO/LABC notified." Thirdly I would not have accepted their refusal to pay - I would have re-iterated what work/investigating I had done & an outline of the major issues discovered with photographs where appropriate. If they continued to refuse I would then go down the small claims route - okay so in reality you only list a few hours on a Saturday, but for me it's the principle of the matter.
Agreed ! You do the work, you get paid! Just curious have you ever made a small court claim before how does that work? Also how often do people breach a contract when you carry out work. Can’t signatures just be forged or the customer can say they didn’t sign it eg
@@jumullyett1258 yes we have gone to small claims court with a larger construction company that refused to pay for agreed extras. Judge laughed at him, and he had to pay the invoice, the interest and the court fees. Don't be worried about using this option its very inexpensive and as long as you done everything by the books you will win.
Ive been there Tom. You're 100% in the right. As Kenny Rodgers once sang you gotta know when to holdem foldem know when to walk away. Know when to run.
On my quotes, I always put a note at the bottom to say if additional works are required to complete the works you have requested, then additional charges will be applied (obviously outlining these charges before commencing with the work), I also state that if the requested work can not be carried out due to a saftey concern, a standard callout charge will be applied.
My apprentice accidentally knocked over 5L can of diesel into the underfloor heating screed of a job where they wouldn't pay for agreed extras like 2 extra bathrooms and fancy radiators. Stank to high heaven with the heating on. Shame that.
In most American states, contractors can file liens against real estate on work has been done (without a court case). It's called a "mechanic's lien." These liens are powerful and usually force payment.
On point mate. I would like to add though, that you should make the name of the estate agent public in the interest of saving the rest of us in the future. He will likely try the same shit on again in the future if he's felt he's gotten away with it this time round. The more sparks warned, the better. Knobead will quickly learn not to be a prick, and to pay where payment is due. He will shit when he realises that nobody will touch him with a 10 foot barge pole. Carry on the good work!
Richard Ashworth - That’s true, he should mention the estate agent so we don’t get conned. I think for legal reasons his not allowed coz there was no contract made prior to the work started.
No, it's their utter destiny. Tom is in the UK, so are this bunch of *#*(*()$)#()$(). He is free to wipe any part he wants with them. They owe him 2 hrs. end of
I had a similar incident with a builder I have done work for, called me out at 6pm one evening due to not being able to get power on to a property that the plasteres were coming the following day to apply skim to all rooms. On arrival I found the problem to be the hot tub causing an earth fault and not allowing the main rcd to be reset. I quickly found this and disconnected it to allow rcd to be reset. When I invoiced him the following day on his request I may add. He refused to pay my invoice which was a £40 call out fee and an hour of labour at £30. My standard rate for any of my clients. His reply was you were only in the property 10 mins. So I returned on receipt of his email informing me of refusal to pay and removed the main fuse from the carrier. Replaced the carried and taped it up with danger tape. And ignored all calls and emails from him I recieved a bank transfer an hour later. Which I returned to him and informed him never to contact me again.
@@JasperJanssen He didn't say he removed the main fuse from the site only from the carrier. In some jurisdictions, a trade-worker may be required to effectively disconnect the respective service if that service can't be made safe as well as prevent the re-connection prior to repair. How this is accomplished will vary depending on the specific service. For example, where I live in the US, if the combustion chamber of your furnace is cracked or leaking CO, then the HVAC tech will disable the unit from being able to operate at all. The user/homeowner will still be charged for the service call based on either a pre-agreed rate/service contract or a standard rate schedule.
Hi Tom. Don't fully agree with your thought process on this one, unusually. The visit you did here (from what I can tell) ended up being an extra long survey with the new purpose being pricing up a correctly installed consumer unit and general kitchen electrical remedial work. I'd have worked this survey cost into the remedial works quotation. If you're going to advise the customer to refer back to another electrician (after viewing poor workmanship and questionable EICR) and not take the work on yourself, not sure I'd spend two hours of my time with them.
If I were asked to just install a cooker, that's all I'd do. How could I justify 2 hours on something I was never asked to do. It's like a garage charging me for plugging his OBD2 into my car to diagnose a service light and charging me. Something I didn't ask for.
The shiny kitchen is what draws in buyers. All of the underlying mechanical stuff, which is usually the more expensive part, gets shoved aside since it can be cobbled together and won't fall apart until after the sale is finalized.
Dear contracter. If you read this. Please pay Thomas. Be glad that i didn’t name your company. He did work for you in huis weekend. And next time call Thomas for electricity work. Italian people are good for tiles. @ Thomas good vid Greetings from holland
Hey, it's not a shame you've lost an estate agent, it's their loss. Many sparks think there should be a 'rate my customer' website, tho that's a legal minefield!
Yes!!! Need a blacklist of nightmare customers so other traders can be warned. Sparx lose out.. You wouldn't get this nonsense with gas fitters.. Then electricity is not as dangerous as gas *facepalm*
Thomas I feel how you handled this issue was brilliant, very professional and also gives me and I hope other contractors the confidence in their ability and knowledge enough to know when to walk away completely. Absolutely brilliant mate I applaud you !
IMO I would have just called in the morning and spoke to them explaining why you've invoiced. You may have gotten paid for your time. Still could have walked away but on "decent" mutual terms. Top video as always 👍
The lesson really is to issue a written quote for each job setting out your fees and insist on a numbered purchase order signed by a responsible person before arranging to attend. Then it's easy to invoice quoting that number and the contract is enforceable.
I once went to a lady who wanted some flat pack putting together, but couldn't find a carpenter, I think back then I charged her £10 per hour. Arrived at the house, brand new kitchen, beautifully done, new staircase fitted, top quality work. Dingaling went my bell. She has had some top carpenters in her house recently but couldn't find a carpenter. It took me and hour and 45 minutes so I charged her £20, she said she wouldn't pay that much and said I had only done £17.50 worth of work!! Even back then the house was worth over half a million. I stood my ground and said, No, it is £20. She agreed to pay me but said I would never get anymore work from her. I told her that was fine as I would never ever work for her again no matter how much she offered!
Yep sounds like one of my former landladies, she had been ripping off every contractor who worked for her for years and thus could never get any work done on the house we were renting from her. Very glad to not be living there anymore!
Oh, also Tom, I've not seen anyone else mention this, but I'm pretty sure in filing you taxes you can claim on written off invoices (disregarded invoices), check with your accountant though!
Hi Thomas, I've learned to email my estimates, and wait for them to be accepted. No work will be carried out until that happens. Sorry about you having that experience. You did the right thing after all. Greetings from Spain!
Interesting. I ran this past my brother who I knew would have an oppinion. He said. No, I would not expect to be paid. The contract was to install a hob, which was not fulfilled. He was not there to perform an assessment of the electrical system, which is what he has invoiced the client for. Is this what the judge would say if you went to court. But I think I would have walked away as well. But I only do this as a hobby.
I have a mobile car detailing(valet) business and people are quite happy for me to spend extra time to do small jobs above and beyond and it is expected that i don't charge.....and yet they have no quarm paying an extra $1 for cheese on their Whopper..Theres a mindset out there
Property management companies are the worst non payers in London, I work at a plumbing firm dealing with debt recovery and I can nearly guarantee I have dealt with the same people at some point. One thing I will say is you give up to easily, I would chase them for that invoice and if they don't pay put it through the money claims centre online, for that amount of money owed it would only cost you £25, they will soon pay up.
Have to admit that was a brilliantly professional reply, it's hard to stay polite and professional when you have someone trying to screw you over for money I've been bitten unfortunately and ironically it was also an estate agents
Penalised for being a responsible contractor. Think you did the right thing, let the agent now find a sparks who is willing to tackle that job and do all the remedial work before the hob installation. I think this video proves that you are not a cowboy and not just in it for the money. Respect
I've been a freelance QS for many years and I learned to trust my gut. I've walked away from a few potential customers because I knew they just weren't worth the hassle. I've been bitten a few times by non-paying customers. I told one that the only way I would ever work for him again was if he paid me double my rate in advance. He declined - no big loss there!
Although, I usually like your content, but I have to disagree with you now. Even if the customer's response is not proper, you didn't tell her in advance that you are going to charge her for the assessment. I would have been pissed if somebody didn't tell me on the spot that this is going to cost me and got an invoice later (I'm not talking about the style). I think telling the hour rate or something similar - like you mentioned - is a good approach. Is it a common thing in England or in London that people didn't discuss costs at the spot but send invoices later? Where I live the common question is: "How much do I owe you?". Another question; are you worried that in a "reference based society" they are going to tell smack about you because of cancelling the next job?
Back in my days as a consultant for IT, I had a server that I would take to places to make it easier to set everything up. I was working at this place for a week or 3 and had them stop looking for me to do work, and stopped paying me. When I mentioned the server they told me they'd get it back to me when they could get around to it. Ended up taking 2 months to get it back, and threats to have agents turn up to obtain my property on my behalf. The server came back formatted clean (Removing all my setup that I had for tools and things I used in my setups) and they mysteriously had no explanation for their taking of so much time. Turned out the bosses son had taken over the IT section, using my gear to do the job. The best thing was a few years later that son called me up to try and get me to work in his workshop because he was stuck for a tech... I let him know why I wouldn't work for him, and wished him well with his tech shortage, for his company that he'd bought on the thought that he could actually be a tech.
My dads building company folded after two companies folded in the same week owing my dads company £60k each (1989 prices). but then the recession was biting hard. He went through the legal channels to recoup the costs but back then these other owners could sign everything over to the wife's name and thus be untouchable. he never got the money
BillyNoMates1974 1989-91 was a tough period. I left school during the recession and tried my hardest to get an electrical apprenticeship, but companies couldn't afford to invest in apprentices at the times so I diversified into motor vehicle engineering instead. £60k in 1989 was a big sum and unsurprising that his company folded as a direct result. It must have been extremely upsetting for him to see all he built up swept away due to huge unpaid debt.
Me as diesel field technician was couples times when invoices not paid, but best part is when them call again and we say not we don't help you , them get angry. But best part is when you are like 4 hours in job but write in invoice 3 hours them complain (wtf you give them discount but still ). Or when I connect laptop to check faults ( manufacturer say that can be invoice for 30 min) .They forget that software only given out by manufacturer and you pay a lot for that.
I work in finance and my advice would be never to agree to an unpaid invoice if possible. Sell the account receivable to a company that specialises in collection even of its for cents on the dollar. They are specialists at getting blood from stones. Non-payment should never be an option.
I used to do computer installations and many times ran into that same thing where the customer only feels they should pay for time on site, not for my knowledge or preparation. I walked away from a few jobs over that but looked at it as cutting my losses.
I'm a landlord so the boot is on the other foot. When I find a good tradesman, I always pay well and pay quickly, sometimes even an unrequested bonus. You may need their services again and a short notice, time is money. If however there are problems with the job I'll only part pay the invoice until the issue is fixed, though I do try to be reasonable.
Thomas, It’s really reassuring and nice to see a fellow contractor, who has some decency and enough self respect and confidence in their own work ethic to walk away from something like that!!!!! I deal with commercial and industrial electrical work, and to have gad to walk away from jobs, where you instantly get the vibe!!!!! Good on you sir!!!!!!
You should include in your terms of service that invoices may include a call out / inspection fee which would have basically covered you for the time you were there.
Yeah, so many people really just don't understand what an hourly rate / billed hourly means. I've had a similar case in my tech job where a client decided to not pay, and their reasoning was "I didn't see you at the office" and "the stats on the project show you didn't write enough lines of code" (the electrician equivalent for that would be "you didn't run enough wiring" - which on some jobs you don't need to do) For the hours worked, I had various other employees at the company who'd seen me at the office & had GPS and time tracking showing I'd be at the office. The manager just hadn't seen me at the office enough because he'd been out of the office. A lot of people treat hiring a contractor like buying a product. Sure, there's work you expect to be done, but there's also all the other work that takes place. Unfortunately clients not paying is just a thing contractors have to deal with, regardless of industry or trade, and it always sucks. In my case I was hired to that company through a recruiter/agency, and had their full legal power to get the client to pay, in the end, we settled for 75% of the invoice, rather than go to court for 100% of the invoice. The best part of the story is that in the same email the client told me he wasn't going to pay my invoice, he actually also offered me a permanent job at the company 🤯 Surely it's logical that you'd do that after you've paid, because who the hell wants to work with someone that doesn't treat invoices seriously? If you won't pay my invoice, then why would I think you'd pay my salary.
my work is a commercial "snagger" , i go to very prestigious buildings and offices and snag the works of their contractor and present a list and most times i organised labor to complete these works ( the big contractors seem to not bother coming back to rectify their mistakes for some reason , i have been involved with some very shoddy works costing a LOT of money , such as north Korean water meters with an inbuilt faulty body that had a 2mm hole pissing water out , lighting that switches on and off when you lift a ceiling tile !! and reverse wired underfloor track power a friend of mine had a "builder" fit a new kitchen , the "Builder" was recommended by the kitchen supplier , let me tell you a couple of the faults 1 - the sink waste didnt fit the sink ..the waste hole in the sink was 3mm bigger then any type on the market , the mixer tap leaked (it was 5 mm smaller then any hole and only that tap would fit it ) the waste from the sink ran UP HILL through the wall !! the sockets were not earthed to the box despite being shinny chrome ones (and several had appeared along side the two twins that were there before ) all at different heights and only 80mm off the deck , they were wired in flex and behind the cooker they were just dangling with no mechanical protection , the light wasn't fixed to the ceiling and had been wired incorrectly i asked to see certification for the works ..the builder said he didnt have to provide any , i pointed out he had altered the circuits added to the circuits and had not completed to the works to not only the clients standard but most any governing bodies standard when he asked what the clients standard was i replied , what ever mine and the laws standard is you can take as his standard !! i had a coupe,m of my contractors come and put everything right including a new sink and tap and waste , for under a grand as a favor on the understanding my pal would pursue the contractor through the courts and report him to all the relevant bodies , which he did and that contractor was fiend and went bust and the show room shut down .so report them for the works to the local authority and get them busted regardless of your money its an ethical dilemma do you allow these people to do this to others and more then likely move some poor sap in and have his life in danger and that of his possible children ?? you have to live with that at the end of the day
as a pro gardener, It even worse, we always go out quoting, sometimes spending hours measuring up and sourcing materials, only to not get the job. happens several times a year
Its simple, when people call you for a job you give them an idea of price. When you get there and they start adding things, walk away. Also never drive further than you are prepared to drive for free to quote a job.
As a mobile mechanic , get similar issues. I cant spend an hour diagnosing the fault for free , then the customer knowing the fault decide to repair it themselves .
But when you're called to change a tire, do you show up, spend 2 hours complaining about the check engine light (or any number of other "not safe to drive" issues), and leave without changing the tire? When you're called out to diagnose a problem, I bet you're up front about the cost of said call-out and diagnostics, even if you don't fix the problem.
Not a sparky, but love your channel. Im an IT engineer with 24yrs in the business, and I get this too on private jobs. I had one where I spent 11yrs at a Solicitors sorting out the horrific mess that was their network and server systems. I did an invoice of itemised works and they didn't pay me. Because a lady in the office said I just sat there tapping away at a keyboard. Well yeh !!. Maybe I didn't physically install new equipment but I was still working flat out, non-stop for 11hrs. Didn't even have lunch. Never again... And you know what, I got that gut feeling on that one too when I first spoke to the owner.
I had a similar discussion at work today (I am also an IT Guy), I will not do any private work as once you touch their equipment all their problems become yours, and are expected to fix for free after that, I would rather do things for free in the first place or just advise them I am not interested, than be committed.
After one too many of these experiences, I found that establishing if the potential client used pirated software, they were more than likely unwilling to pay for time if they thought they could avoid it. Many of these 5h1t clients went away. Cheers, David.
Second time I'm watching this video, and I totally agree with Tom. However this reminded me of a situation a couple of years back where I contacted a contractor to lay a concrete slab, I emailed him and spoke to him, and arranged a date he would come and assess the site, he proceeded to postpone the date, and as we had builders on site replacing the roof, I asked them to do it, as I didn't want to go through the hassle of having another contractor. When I broke the news to him that I was no longer interested in him laying the slab, he asked for £60 fees, for emailing and talking to me on the phone (which added up to less that 30 minutes worth) saying he had to spend hours researching power floats and concrete prices. Now I think this is a hit un professional as you wouldn't start doing that until you know what your working with and if you had the job. I never paid him as I just thought that was life, your never guaranteed a job, and he seemed to think that because I asked him if he'd price it up he had got the job, I mean most contractors will offer free quotes for work, it's good business.
I think most of us Self employed have taken knocks, Im an Essex based Spark with a few stories and some lessons learnt. Any firm that wants to do 28 days etc from invoice, forget that, basically means you can start chasing it in 28 days and likely wait another month before you actually get it. I've found that people that knock an invoice arent always who you'd expect neither, my best clients are the every day folk like us !
Should have waited till Monday morning, and went to the estate agent with the keys to the other job and say you wont be doing it, leave therm short notice to find someone else.
Skill Builder are doing excellent podcast's with which they mention 'Managing Expectations' and I feel this is very relevant here. At least you didn't lose any money on materials. Keep up the good work Nagy!
Name the agent mate, pay the £10 and submit the claim in court. It's a great feeling to know you don't need there money (takes time to get to that stage)
Been in the same position buddy. I now charge from the moment I leave my house of which I call ‘unproductive labour time’ I’m honest and upfront with this info and 99% of people are ok with this. They can always say no!! Been in the trade since I was 18 back in 88 and have heard all the excuses!! Take care!
Take your van into the garage with a warning light on the dash. They plug it in, tell you whats wrong with it and then bill you. No work has been done. You pay for there knowledge and test equipment. You may have saved a future fire by standing your ground but a suit wouldn't think like that. Imagine a DIY'er at a future date, switches of the hob at the board and then goes to change the hob.
Actually, "work" was done -- "diagnostic services". Unless they're up front about the cost of said diagnostics, I'd question the bill. He wasted his own time being there _2 hours._ (it didn't take 2hr to determine this place was a non-code fire waiting to happen) He refused to do the work he was called in to do, and still bills you? I'd have a conversation about that bill, too. There are jobs you know immediately should be avoided, and you walk away.
As a photographer I have dealt with all kinds of clients in the last 15 years. I’ve had clients owing many thousands and “going silent”, ones where my expectations have been vastly different to those of the client. Even had a litigation company who hired me for corporate headshots refuse to pay. (Speaking with their employees, their own client cases were between 1 and 10 billion dollar cases. So yeh - little me - what hope?) Gladly to this day, never a non-paying client. (Even the litigation firm paid after a lot of gentle negotiation and “seeing it from their side”.) But in your industry and mine, people take the piss, claim you haven’t done what you should have done, etc. But the thing is, this guy‘s email was passive. Yours was passive aggressive. I guarantee that you could have got this guy to pay up - without resorting to the small claims court - if you had worked your communications more effectively. All business is a negotiation, and to throw your hands up in a fit like that - you aren’t teaching that guy a lesson. You are just making yourself feel better and end up burning bridges and 130 quid down. Problem is, whilst it may make yourself feel better in a kind of “licking my wounds” way, you aren’t moving your business forward, engaging new types of customer through this new agent, etc... you are taking a step back. It’s how you deal with the shitty clients that makes you improve and progress your business. If you take a small minded attitude, you’ll always get the same types of work. You don’t know me from Adam, this is just my two pence worth. But if you want to run a successful business, you have to think like a successful businessman and not get emotional about this stuff. I have struggled over the years with difficult customers but you must never give up.
Could you not get them to sign a piece of paper to pay the full amount before you do the job that way if they refuse to pay you can take them to court with evidence
You wrote a very polite and pertinent letter and I applaud you for not including the odd profanity but as suggested below put a case together under the small claims court if only to prove that your not to be messed with again.
been a plumber in canada for 32 years. the few times i had a customer refuse to pay it always bit them in the end. is especially funny when they call a few months later with an emergency and i tell them i don't care about their problems.
If you think the work in that property was bad, you should see what we found when renovating my downstairs. (As in we knocked through 2 walls and split the kitchen and living room up to give us a dining room) The cost of the electrician was more than we spent on decorating...
I had a dodgy landlord refuse to pay me for a ECR in a dirty flat because I failed it & he wanted a pass/satisfactory certificate to show the local council the next day, I stopped the ECR test & inspection when I found new cables joined to the old rubber cables, told him it needed a rewire & he said I cost him rental money by not giving him a pass/satisfactory certificate!
After many requests for my 2 hours payment & him refusing, I told the council the flats were dangerous & they shut the lot down & fined him thousands of pounds!
Good lad
Nice!
Rock f***ing on!!!!! Yesss mate! Yes Bl**dy yesss!
@@jetcleans2473 ah British spirit I see
Good for you and all the hard working tradesmen and ladies out there. We have to do the right job and look out for the tenants and buyers. I tell these investors to stop cutting corners and hold on to good professionals that are looking out for everyone involved. Take care.
Had a takeaway wanting new lighting throughout the store, priced it, was all good. Did the job, was offered food every day throughout the works, was offered drinks etc. Come to pay time and they 'had cash flow issues'... we said okay, we'll give you 21 days to pay up. Didnt happen, theres a fair where I live once a year, the opening Friday is their highest paying night of the year as they're busy. Walked in at 9pm and pulled the main fuse, cash turned up within 15 minutes.
pulling the fuse made the cash "flow" then!
That wasn't Italian electricians!!! It was the non payer that installed it!!! Seen it so many times!!!
having a hammer £5...knowing where to use hammer....£500
Using said hammer on estate agent, life behind bars...but only if you get caught
BigD - Well said !!!!!!
don't you advertise a call out fee?
if you want your money just say the name of the company, nothing wrong with the truth.
Using the hammer right .. priceless !
It's a pain but an educated e-mail is more civilised than a mini digger in the foyer 😂
Yeah but the mini digger in the foyer is infinitely more satisfying.
Have contemplated it before, don't worry!
You must be referring to: ruclips.net/video/kCBX778YHqA/видео.html
Didn't the digger driver get 4yrs
You may be £130 out of pocket but you have learned a good lesson from this. Onwards and upwards lad.
That's why I had a mobile pin machine one me. Small jobs (heating engineer) they get to pay straight away. I've learned that people will pay straight away. If you give them a chance to use email, they turn in to internet trolls. First year working for my self spend 100 hours calling and mailing after invoices. After I got the pin machine, that was done. People don't dare to say stuff like that in your face. Well done. Great reaction. I was never that kind🤣
He has one, IIRC. It's likely the tenant wasn't the customer though, so the agent got the invoice and was the dick about it.
The customer was the estate agent not the person living there. Did you listen to what he said ? 133 idiots not listening either !
Just curious because this is a great idea!
How much does it cost for one of them? If the job cost me £100 how much would I lose from using the machine
Cash is king pin machines are trackers of your hard work
Sometimes you have to fire customers. Good on ya.
That "vibe" you get is called INTUITION. If it's telling you something, listen to it. It's the most underrated ability.
A few questions I always ask b4 Anything. 1. Is there parking ? 2. Are you the person responsible for paying the invoice 3. We charge x as a callout which inc x amount of time.. 4... if you agree to all of the above Text your Address to this phone number agreeing to the above terms.. the ones that don’t txt me good bye.. the ones that do I respect and Never give me Grief. 34 years of Vibes matey. Never fails me. My first EVER job done the cheque bounced ! I vowed Never to have the piss taken out of me. And remember it’s not how long it takes... it’s what you know. And sometimes who you know ! Good on you.
I also "get the vibe" going to jobs, walked away from many.
If I walked away from every job where I got the vibe I would never get out of my truck.
When you know you know just walk away so so true buddy :)
Mate all you need to do is laugh under your breath while saying 'it's okay I know where you live' always paid on time
I remember when I was an apprentice I was sitting at a Hooters looking at the conduit coming from the service thinking, "That's sloppy as F*k!" then I realized I was sitting in a Hooters looking at conduit.
Sh*t show? Try working on a mobile home. I had one that I chased my tail on for hours and finally found a non GFCI outlet mounted face down, outside, underneath, covered with fiberglass insulation, under the floor where a hot water heater had busted a year earlier. Nothing but pieces of charred crap in a wet indoor plastic box. Factory install. It was screwing up the outlets on one whole side of the 60 foot trailer. Since the outlets in a mobile home are junk when brand new I just replaced every one that I opened with new standard ones. I must have replaced about 10. The things you do for friends...
When someone screws you like that the first time it saves you from ever having to work for that prick ever again. You're money ahead. Trust me.
Good vid, very reasonable way you behaved. I'm retired from it now, but I wasn't a spark, I was a valeter. A local pub landlord asked me to do three really shitted up cars, I turned up as agreed, at 0700, worked til 2100, the mid afternoon temperature reached 33'C that day, I got a cheque, then nearly a week later, I discovered it'd been cancelled. I remonstrated calmly, the bloke said I hadn't done the rear window on the triumph spitfire properly. I HAD, and tried to explain that it was plastic, VERY scratched and worn and would never come up like he seemed to think it might, he said he didn't care and the "whole rear window thing had soured his valeting experience!" A month later, after several very heavy duty valets, including shampooing farm-animal diarrhoea off the seats of a Defender, driving home after a night valet at 0430, the spitfire is outside the pub, near the main road, so, I emptied the contents of my numatic George all over it! Bonnet, boot and vinyl roof! ... contents which included the sheep shit, cooking fat, pet hair, soot, OAP piss, sticky sweets, old coffee, tons of dust, grit and cola. About 8 ltrs of gloop all told. Naughty... but incredibly satisfying...! 😆😆😆
I'm now retired after 35yrs contracting. There will be many occasions a client won't pay or want to renegotiate after completion, but, as you say, with experience you start to get a warning sense for it from the moment you arrive, sometimes even on taking the booking. I reckon any job that another electrician has recently worked on (let alone 2 electricians) carries a very high risk of non payment, a "difficult" customer, or hidden issues that are going to be time consuming and costly to correct. It's just not worth the risk. There's only one thing worse than having no work, and that's working in a shit hole and not getting paid. As You are dead right to walk away and refuse more work from this client.
You should always state up front when a customer is requesting service that there is a charge just to show up on site and a second charge per hour on-site charged in quarter hour increments. The real problem that you faced was not going on-site to assess the situation beforehand to give the customer an estimate. You could charge an estimate fee that is refundable if the customer agrees to have you perform the work.
Yes in computers I’ve walked away from several customers. Sadly people don’t understand paying for someone’s knowledge.
Have had customers in the past come in to the shop, I spend say 40 -60 minutes diagnostics and fixing the software issues. At the end they ask do I owe you anything? No mate I survive on fresh air. lol
take them to small claims court if you are not going to do any work for them again, you can't loose with the evidence you have, also contact the local council and let them know, just what kind of death traps this agent is renting out.
Can't now. He's asked them to disregard the invoice.
Its not worth his time, its only 130...
Tom, I have had the same experiences many times with clients who did not want to pay my hourly rates (as a professional forester) to work on their property! I always said to them, you are willing to pay up to $80 an hour for a plumber to put in a new toilet (NO DIS to plumbers, I love you guys/gals!) but don't want to pay me $50 an hour to devise a harvest plan for your wooded property? What I decide to do can determine what happens up to 50 or 100 years from now?? I went to school for 6+ years to learn what I have in my head and you don't want to pay for it?? WTF?? Keep up the good fight for all us trades people Tom! Love ya:) ☮🙃🐱
Really appreciate this video Tom. Being declined payment is the worst thing to go through as it's a sense of theft really I hate it when you fit over £1000 worth of downlights and not get paid hence why I don't work work for builders anymore and any work I do so is either confirmed via email with the quote or a signed contract. Thankyou for this video as it helps new comers to this industry 😊
Firstly I would have secured the power off before leaving due to the risk level on such a dangerous installation & I would be notifying the DNO & local building control of the situation.
Secondly, I would have written into the invoice what I had done - e.g. "Requested installation works aborted due to hazardous installation - supply isolated & DNO/LABC notified."
Thirdly I would not have accepted their refusal to pay - I would have re-iterated what work/investigating I had done & an outline of the major issues discovered with photographs where appropriate. If they continued to refuse I would then go down the small claims route - okay so in reality you only list a few hours on a Saturday, but for me it's the principle of the matter.
Agreed ! You do the work, you get paid!
Just curious have you ever made a small court claim before how does that work?
Also how often do people breach a contract when you carry out work. Can’t signatures just be forged or the customer can say they didn’t sign it eg
@@jumullyett1258 yes we have gone to small claims court with a larger construction company that refused to pay for agreed extras. Judge laughed at him, and he had to pay the invoice, the interest and the court fees.
Don't be worried about using this option its very inexpensive and as long as you done everything by the books you will win.
LOL ... started out thinking this was an uber driver!
Come on mate. You can openly racist on the Internet it's OK... Guwan, say the P word. U know u meant it.
@@hassasinali7979 fuck off race baiting
Ive been there Tom. You're 100% in the right. As Kenny Rodgers once sang you gotta know when to holdem foldem know when to walk away. Know when to run.
On my quotes, I always put a note at the bottom to say if additional works are required to complete the works you have requested, then additional charges will be applied (obviously outlining these charges before commencing with the work), I also state that if the requested work can not be carried out due to a saftey concern, a standard callout charge will be applied.
My apprentice accidentally knocked over 5L can of diesel into the underfloor heating screed of a job where they wouldn't pay for agreed extras like 2 extra bathrooms and fancy radiators. Stank to high heaven with the heating on. Shame that.
"accidentally"
In most American states, contractors can file liens against real estate on work has been done (without a court case). It's called a "mechanic's lien." These liens are powerful and usually force payment.
On point mate. I would like to add though, that you should make the name of the estate agent public in the interest of saving the rest of us in the future. He will likely try the same shit on again in the future if he's felt he's gotten away with it this time round. The more sparks warned, the better. Knobead will quickly learn not to be a prick, and to pay where payment is due. He will shit when he realises that nobody will touch him with a 10 foot barge pole.
Carry on the good work!
I would not recommend it. Depending on the geographic region, you could face libel suits.
Richard Ashworth - That’s true, he should mention the estate agent so we don’t get conned. I think for legal reasons his not allowed coz there was no contract made prior to the work started.
Richard Ashworth to right mate
Agreed!
Will Haggerty if it’s true it’s not libel
Amend the invoice to include your travelling, go for small claims 😁
and administration time for addressing the non-payment.
Its their loss Tom, not yours. I think you handled that admirably, as of yet (touch wood) I've fortunately not been in this situation.
No, it's their utter destiny. Tom is in the UK, so are this bunch of *#*(*()$)#()$(). He is free to wipe any part he wants with them. They owe him 2 hrs. end of
still, Tom lost money.How do you get protected by the state in these cases?
Cri George take them to court
Spot on! Dealt with at a highly respectful manner!
I had a similar incident with a builder I have done work for, called me out at 6pm one evening due to not being able to get power on to a property that the plasteres were coming the following day to apply skim to all rooms. On arrival I found the problem to be the hot tub causing an earth fault and not allowing the main rcd to be reset. I quickly found this and disconnected it to allow rcd to be reset. When I invoiced him the following day on his request I may add. He refused to pay my invoice which was a £40 call out fee and an hour of labour at £30. My standard rate for any of my clients. His reply was you were only in the property 10 mins. So I returned on receipt of his email informing me of refusal to pay and removed the main fuse from the carrier. Replaced the carried and taped it up with danger tape. And ignored all calls and emails from him I recieved a bank transfer an hour later. Which I returned to him and informed him never to contact me again.
So... you stole his main fuse in retaliation?
Graeme Bell brilliant ! Shame you lost what you earned but hope it cost him more !
@@JasperJanssen He didn't say he removed the main fuse from the site only from the carrier. In some jurisdictions, a trade-worker may be required to effectively disconnect the respective service if that service can't be made safe as well as prevent the re-connection prior to repair. How this is accomplished will vary depending on the specific service.
For example, where I live in the US, if the combustion chamber of your furnace is cracked or leaking CO, then the HVAC tech will disable the unit from being able to operate at all. The user/homeowner will still be charged for the service call based on either a pre-agreed rate/service contract or a standard rate schedule.
Lesson for people never to piss off an electrician
Jasper Janssen that’s what you’ve gotta do... don’t pay, we will take away. I would do the same, remove fuse carrier also.
Thank you for telling me to make a cup of tea. I was just thinking I'd love one.
*Update*
I now have tea. You may proceed.
Hi Tom. Don't fully agree with your thought process on this one, unusually. The visit you did here (from what I can tell) ended up being an extra long survey with the new purpose being pricing up a correctly installed consumer unit and general kitchen electrical remedial work. I'd have worked this survey cost into the remedial works quotation. If you're going to advise the customer to refer back to another electrician (after viewing poor workmanship and questionable EICR) and not take the work on yourself, not sure I'd spend two hours of my time with them.
If I were asked to just install a cooker, that's all I'd do. How could I justify 2 hours on something I was never asked to do. It's like a garage charging me for plugging his OBD2 into my car to diagnose a service light and charging me. Something I didn't ask for.
The shiny kitchen is what draws in buyers. All of the underlying mechanical stuff, which is usually the more expensive part, gets shoved aside since it can be cobbled together and won't fall apart until after the sale is finalized.
I'm a gas engineer and I always charge a callout fee in advanced. or I don't work. And take him to court.
as you said in your intro, when you get bad vibes, exit stage left.
You just reminded me why I stopped be a Electrical engineer, and changed jobs.
Dear contracter. If you read this. Please pay Thomas. Be glad that i didn’t name your company. He did work for you in huis weekend. And next time call Thomas for electricity work. Italian people are good for tiles.
@ Thomas good vid
Greetings from holland
Hey, it's not a shame you've lost an estate agent, it's their loss.
Many sparks think there should be a 'rate my customer' website, tho that's a legal minefield!
There are a few
Yes!!! Need a blacklist of nightmare customers so other traders can be warned. Sparx lose out.. You wouldn't get this nonsense with gas fitters.. Then electricity is not as dangerous as gas *facepalm*
Yep call it instinct or intuition. You did the right thing mate. Keep your chin up. Keep setting the standard.
Thomas I feel how you handled this issue was brilliant, very professional and also gives me and I hope other contractors the confidence in their ability and knowledge enough to know when to walk away completely. Absolutely brilliant mate I applaud you !
IMO I would have just called in the morning and spoke to them explaining why you've invoiced. You may have gotten paid for your time. Still could have walked away but on "decent" mutual terms. Top video as always 👍
I think you was spot on to be honest. I bet the guy from the agents was being paid to be there why shouldn't you?
That was my thoughts exactly.
The lesson really is to issue a written quote for each job setting out your fees and insist on a numbered purchase order signed by a responsible person before arranging to attend. Then it's easy to invoice quoting that number and the contract is enforceable.
I once went to a lady who wanted some flat pack putting together, but couldn't find a carpenter, I think back then I charged her £10 per hour.
Arrived at the house, brand new kitchen, beautifully done, new staircase fitted, top quality work. Dingaling went my bell.
She has had some top carpenters in her house recently but couldn't find a carpenter.
It took me and hour and 45 minutes so I charged her £20, she said she wouldn't pay that much and said I had only done £17.50 worth of work!!
Even back then the house was worth over half a million.
I stood my ground and said, No, it is £20. She agreed to pay me but said I would never get anymore work from her.
I told her that was fine as I would never ever work for her again no matter how much she offered!
They are the bastard ones, nice house etc, obviousley scammed every fucker that went there.
Yep sounds like one of my former landladies, she had been ripping off every contractor who worked for her for years and thus could never get any work done on the house we were renting from her. Very glad to not be living there anymore!
Yeah. I know the type mate. Fighting you for £20 for putting some fucking flat pack together.
you would though if she was genuinely going to pay you like £1000 to hang a door
What was you up to for 2 hrs dude if you got no intention of doing the job ?
Oh, also Tom, I've not seen anyone else mention this, but I'm pretty sure in filing you taxes you can claim on written off invoices (disregarded invoices), check with your accountant though!
When did joe lycett become an electrician ??
Hi Thomas,
I've learned to email my estimates, and wait for them to be accepted. No work will be carried out until that happens.
Sorry about you having that experience.
You did the right thing after all.
Greetings from Spain!
Interesting. I ran this past my brother who I knew would have an oppinion. He said. No, I would not expect to be paid. The contract was to install a hob, which was not fulfilled. He was not there to perform an assessment of the electrical system, which is what he has invoiced the client for. Is this what the judge would say if you went to court. But I think I would have walked away as well. But I only do this as a hobby.
Thats what i tell my wife " its a simple job , in and out nice and quick"
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
I have a mobile car detailing(valet) business and people are quite happy for me to spend extra time to do small jobs above and beyond and it is expected that i don't charge.....and yet they have no quarm paying an extra $1 for cheese on their Whopper..Theres a mindset out there
Thomas you've learned a valuable business lesson and your solution to avoid future situations like this sounds spot on and your cost wasn't too great.
Property management companies are the worst non payers in London, I work at a plumbing firm dealing with debt recovery and I can nearly guarantee I have dealt with the same people at some point.
One thing I will say is you give up to easily, I would chase them for that invoice and if they don't pay put it through the money claims centre online, for that amount of money owed it would only cost you £25, they will soon pay up.
Have to admit that was a brilliantly professional reply, it's hard to stay polite and professional when you have someone trying to screw you over for money
I've been bitten unfortunately and ironically it was also an estate agents
Penalised for being a responsible contractor. Think you did the right thing, let the agent now find a sparks who is willing to tackle that job and do all the remedial work before the hob installation. I think this video proves that you are not a cowboy and not just in it for the money. Respect
I've been a freelance QS for many years and I learned to trust my gut. I've walked away from a few potential customers because I knew they just weren't worth the hassle. I've been bitten a few times by non-paying customers. I told one that the only way I would ever work for him again was if he paid me double my rate in advance. He declined - no big loss there!
Although, I usually like your content, but I have to disagree with you now. Even if the customer's response is not proper, you didn't tell her in advance that you are going to charge her for the assessment. I would have been pissed if somebody didn't tell me on the spot that this is going to cost me and got an invoice later (I'm not talking about the style). I think telling the hour rate or something similar - like you mentioned - is a good approach.
Is it a common thing in England or in London that people didn't discuss costs at the spot but send invoices later? Where I live the common question is: "How much do I owe you?".
Another question; are you worried that in a "reference based society" they are going to tell smack about you because of cancelling the next job?
Back in my days as a consultant for IT, I had a server that I would take to places to make it easier to set everything up. I was working at this place for a week or 3 and had them stop looking for me to do work, and stopped paying me. When I mentioned the server they told me they'd get it back to me when they could get around to it.
Ended up taking 2 months to get it back, and threats to have agents turn up to obtain my property on my behalf. The server came back formatted clean (Removing all my setup that I had for tools and things I used in my setups) and they mysteriously had no explanation for their taking of so much time.
Turned out the bosses son had taken over the IT section, using my gear to do the job. The best thing was a few years later that son called me up to try and get me to work in his workshop because he was stuck for a tech... I let him know why I wouldn't work for him, and wished him well with his tech shortage, for his company that he'd bought on the thought that he could actually be a tech.
My dads building company folded after two companies folded in the same week owing my dads company £60k each (1989 prices).
but then the recession was biting hard.
He went through the legal channels to recoup the costs but back then these other owners could sign everything over to the wife's name and thus be untouchable.
he never got the money
BillyNoMates1974 bastards
BillyNoMates1974 1989-91 was a tough period. I left school during the recession and tried my hardest to get an electrical apprenticeship, but companies couldn't afford to invest in apprentices at the times so I diversified into motor vehicle engineering instead. £60k in 1989 was a big sum and unsurprising that his company folded as a direct result. It must have been extremely upsetting for him to see all he built up swept away due to huge unpaid debt.
Me as diesel field technician was couples times when invoices not paid, but best part is when them call again and we say not we don't help you , them get angry. But best part is when you are like 4 hours in job but write in invoice 3 hours them complain (wtf you give them discount but still ). Or when I connect laptop to check faults ( manufacturer say that can be invoice for 30 min) .They forget that software only given out by manufacturer and you pay a lot for that.
And you need get qualification from engine manufacturer
As my northern boss once said to me: "did you actually just say bloody norah" LOL
I work in finance and my advice would be never to agree to an unpaid invoice if possible. Sell the account receivable to a company that specialises in collection even of its for cents on the dollar. They are specialists at getting blood from stones. Non-payment should never be an option.
NAME AND SHAME! It is the only way forward
I used to do computer installations and many times ran into that same thing where the customer only feels they should pay for time on site, not for my knowledge or preparation. I walked away from a few jobs over that but looked at it as cutting my losses.
Well done lad, keep away from landlords and estate agents like them,,,,(you know who I’m talking about.)
Well done mate. Very diplomatic and professional. Keep up the great work. From Australia 👍
Inform local Council building control too. This is a fire waiting to happen.
I'm a landlord so the boot is on the other foot. When I find a good tradesman, I always pay well and pay quickly, sometimes even an unrequested bonus. You may need their services again and a short notice, time is money. If however there are problems with the job I'll only part pay the invoice until the issue is fixed, though I do try to be reasonable.
Mate you did the right and proper thing - well done. Also keep the videos up they're so informative! Cheers bud
Thomas, It’s really reassuring and nice to see a fellow contractor, who has some decency and enough self respect and confidence in their own work ethic to walk away from something like that!!!!!
I deal with commercial and industrial electrical work, and to have gad to walk away from jobs, where you instantly get the vibe!!!!! Good on you sir!!!!!!
You should include in your terms of service that invoices may include a call out / inspection fee which would have basically covered you for the time you were there.
Yeah, so many people really just don't understand what an hourly rate / billed hourly means.
I've had a similar case in my tech job where a client decided to not pay, and their reasoning was "I didn't see you at the office" and "the stats on the project show you didn't write enough lines of code" (the electrician equivalent for that would be "you didn't run enough wiring" - which on some jobs you don't need to do)
For the hours worked, I had various other employees at the company who'd seen me at the office & had GPS and time tracking showing I'd be at the office. The manager just hadn't seen me at the office enough because he'd been out of the office.
A lot of people treat hiring a contractor like buying a product. Sure, there's work you expect to be done, but there's also all the other work that takes place. Unfortunately clients not paying is just a thing contractors have to deal with, regardless of industry or trade, and it always sucks.
In my case I was hired to that company through a recruiter/agency, and had their full legal power to get the client to pay, in the end, we settled for 75% of the invoice, rather than go to court for 100% of the invoice.
The best part of the story is that in the same email the client told me he wasn't going to pay my invoice, he actually also offered me a permanent job at the company 🤯
Surely it's logical that you'd do that after you've paid, because who the hell wants to work with someone that doesn't treat invoices seriously? If you won't pay my invoice, then why would I think you'd pay my salary.
I saw that pic of the fuseboard, and laughed
Maniacally
my work is a commercial "snagger" , i go to very prestigious buildings and offices and snag the works of their contractor and present a list and most times i organised labor to complete these works ( the big contractors seem to not bother coming back to rectify their mistakes for some reason , i have been involved with some very shoddy works costing a LOT of money , such as north Korean water meters with an inbuilt faulty body that had a 2mm hole pissing water out , lighting that switches on and off when you lift a ceiling tile !! and reverse wired underfloor track power
a friend of mine had a "builder" fit a new kitchen , the "Builder" was recommended by the kitchen supplier , let me tell you a couple of the faults
1 - the sink waste didnt fit the sink ..the waste hole in the sink was 3mm bigger then any type on the market , the mixer tap leaked (it was 5 mm smaller then any hole and only that tap would fit it ) the waste from the sink ran UP HILL through the wall !!
the sockets were not earthed to the box despite being shinny chrome ones (and several had appeared along side the two twins that were there before ) all at different heights and only 80mm off the deck , they were wired in flex and behind the cooker they were just dangling with no mechanical protection , the light wasn't fixed to the ceiling and had been wired incorrectly
i asked to see certification for the works ..the builder said he didnt have to provide any , i pointed out he had altered the circuits added to the circuits and had not completed to the works to not only the clients standard but most any governing bodies standard when he asked what the clients standard was i replied , what ever mine and the laws standard is you can take as his standard !! i had a coupe,m of my contractors come and put everything right including a new sink and tap and waste , for under a grand as a favor on the understanding my pal would pursue the contractor through the courts and report him to all the relevant bodies , which he did and that contractor was fiend and went bust and the show room shut down .so report them for the works to the local authority and get them busted regardless of your money its an ethical dilemma do you allow these people to do this to others and more then likely move some poor sap in and have his life in danger and that of his possible children ?? you have to live with that at the end of the day
I would name and shame the company in question. Hopefully they don't pull the same stunt on another contractor. Good video!
as a pro gardener, It even worse, we always go out quoting, sometimes spending hours measuring up and sourcing materials, only to not get the job.
happens several times a year
Its simple, when people call you for a job you give them an idea of price. When you get there and they start adding things, walk away. Also never drive further than you are prepared to drive for free to quote a job.
Tom Bobtail yep, agree. Basic business manners.
Well done Sir! Exactly the right response. We also have our dignity.
'Make a cup of tea.' 'Bloody Nora.' - The lesser spotted English gent.
It is very rare to find a work man who is interested in his job not just making money, you are one of them👍
As a mobile mechanic , get similar issues. I cant spend an hour diagnosing the fault for free , then the customer knowing the fault decide to repair it themselves .
But when you're called to change a tire, do you show up, spend 2 hours complaining about the check engine light (or any number of other "not safe to drive" issues), and leave without changing the tire? When you're called out to diagnose a problem, I bet you're up front about the cost of said call-out and diagnostics, even if you don't fix the problem.
As a fellow mechanic I agree mad how many people think that lad
@@jfbeam when the tire is held on by two of five studs, and the remaining lugs are stripped. Yea...
Yep....the “turn around and walk away” vibe.
But we don’t....we go in. 😂🤦🏻♂️
Every time.
Thanks for the cup of tea warning ⚠️ i was glad to have it ;)
Not a sparky, but love your channel. Im an IT engineer with 24yrs in the business, and I get this too on private jobs. I had one where I spent 11yrs at a Solicitors sorting out the horrific mess that was their network and server systems. I did an invoice of itemised works and they didn't pay me. Because a lady in the office said I just sat there tapping away at a keyboard. Well yeh !!. Maybe I didn't physically install new equipment but I was still working flat out, non-stop for 11hrs. Didn't even have lunch. Never again... And you know what, I got that gut feeling on that one too when I first spoke to the owner.
i had to read that twice, wondered why you didn't bill as you went along on an 11YEAR job lol
damn typos
Not very good if it took you 11yrs. ;-)
I had a similar discussion at work today (I am also an IT Guy), I will not do any private work as once you touch their equipment all their problems become yours, and are expected to fix for free after that, I would rather do things for free in the first place or just advise them I am not interested, than be committed.
After one too many of these experiences, I found that establishing if the potential client used pirated software, they were more than likely unwilling to pay for time if they thought they could avoid it. Many of these 5h1t clients went away. Cheers, David.
I think you have answered your own question?. People don't get that they are paying for knowledge....
Second time I'm watching this video, and I totally agree with Tom. However this reminded me of a situation a couple of years back where I contacted a contractor to lay a concrete slab, I emailed him and spoke to him, and arranged a date he would come and assess the site, he proceeded to postpone the date, and as we had builders on site replacing the roof, I asked them to do it, as I didn't want to go through the hassle of having another contractor. When I broke the news to him that I was no longer interested in him laying the slab, he asked for £60 fees, for emailing and talking to me on the phone (which added up to less that 30 minutes worth) saying he had to spend hours researching power floats and concrete prices. Now I think this is a hit un professional as you wouldn't start doing that until you know what your working with and if you had the job. I never paid him as I just thought that was life, your never guaranteed a job, and he seemed to think that because I asked him if he'd price it up he had got the job, I mean most contractors will offer free quotes for work, it's good business.
Better off without them mate. Saved you bother in future
I think most of us Self employed have taken knocks, Im an Essex based Spark with a few stories and some lessons learnt.
Any firm that wants to do 28 days etc from invoice, forget that, basically means you can start chasing it in 28 days and likely wait another month before you actually get it.
I've found that people that knock an invoice arent always who you'd expect neither, my best clients are the every day folk like us !
I'd have told them to come and collect the keys themselves...
True, waste their time back. And file a few teeth on the keys down a bit ;)
Even as a biker Tom you get this gut feeling ... always listen to it what ever it may apply too ..
Thanks for the insight buddy 👍
Should have waited till Monday morning, and went to the estate agent with the keys to the other job and say you wont be doing it, leave therm short notice to find someone else.
Skill Builder are doing excellent podcast's with which they mention 'Managing Expectations' and I feel this is very relevant here. At least you didn't lose any money on materials. Keep up the good work Nagy!
Name the agent mate, pay the £10 and submit the claim in court.
It's a great feeling to know you don't need there money (takes time to get to that stage)
Been in the same position buddy. I now charge from the moment I leave my house of which I call ‘unproductive labour time’
I’m honest and upfront with this info and 99% of people are ok with this. They can always say no!! Been in the trade since I was 18 back in 88 and have heard all the excuses!! Take care!
Take your van into the garage with a warning light on the dash. They plug it in, tell you whats wrong with it and then bill you.
No work has been done. You pay for there knowledge and test equipment.
You may have saved a future fire by standing your ground but a suit wouldn't think like that.
Imagine a DIY'er at a future date, switches of the hob at the board and then goes to change the hob.
Actually, "work" was done -- "diagnostic services". Unless they're up front about the cost of said diagnostics, I'd question the bill. He wasted his own time being there _2 hours._ (it didn't take 2hr to determine this place was a non-code fire waiting to happen) He refused to do the work he was called in to do, and still bills you? I'd have a conversation about that bill, too. There are jobs you know immediately should be avoided, and you walk away.
Always test it with your tongue first ;)
As a photographer I have dealt with all kinds of clients in the last 15 years. I’ve had clients owing many thousands and “going silent”, ones where my expectations have been vastly different to those of the client. Even had a litigation company who hired me for corporate headshots refuse to pay. (Speaking with their employees, their own client cases were between 1 and 10 billion dollar cases. So yeh - little me - what hope?)
Gladly to this day, never a non-paying client. (Even the litigation firm paid after a lot of gentle negotiation and “seeing it from their side”.) But in your industry and mine, people take the piss, claim you haven’t done what you should have done, etc.
But the thing is, this guy‘s email was passive. Yours was passive aggressive.
I guarantee that you could have got this guy to pay up - without resorting to the small claims court - if you had worked your communications more effectively.
All business is a negotiation, and to throw your hands up in a fit like that - you aren’t teaching that guy a lesson. You are just making yourself feel better and end up burning bridges and 130 quid down.
Problem is, whilst it may make yourself feel better in a kind of “licking my wounds” way, you aren’t moving your business forward, engaging new types of customer through this new agent, etc... you are taking a step back.
It’s how you deal with the shitty clients that makes you improve and progress your business. If you take a small minded attitude, you’ll always get the same types of work.
You don’t know me from Adam, this is just my two pence worth. But if you want to run a successful business, you have to think like a successful businessman and not get emotional about this stuff. I have struggled over the years with difficult customers but you must never give up.
Interesting! So how would you have got him to pay
@@jumullyett1258 Shank to the gullet I'd presume.
Could you not get them to sign a piece of paper to pay the full amount before you do the job that way if they refuse to pay you can take them to court with evidence
You wrote a very polite and pertinent letter and I applaud you for not including the odd profanity but as suggested below put a case together under the small claims court if only to prove that your not to be messed with again.
been a plumber in canada for 32 years. the few times i had a customer refuse to pay it always bit them in the end.
is especially funny when they call a few months later with an emergency and i tell them i don't care about their problems.
If you think the work in that property was bad, you should see what we found when renovating my downstairs. (As in we knocked through 2 walls and split the kitchen and living room up to give us a dining room) The cost of the electrician was more than we spent on decorating...