I’m a fan of the newer system. I find that manually choosing which hero skills to upgrade from level to level allows me to better understand each skill and how to use them aswell as choosing which ones I want to upgrade. This also incentivises me to use more heroes as I upgraded them all to level 10 and learnt what ones I liked instead of sticking with the same one. But I get your point and do think the old game heroes are special
A really concise argument, and you're right that the newer systems do (kind of) incentivize using multiple heroes, although I would counter with the fact that you then have to go from your powerful level 10 hero to using a super weak level 1 hero which isn't immediately strategically beneficial. Thanks a lot for the comment
What if we had the kr1 system but we were also able to choose which abilities to unlock/upgrade each time the hero levels up? I think that would be a great way to do it.
@@SilentSteff That's a really, really interesting idea, Silent... if you could do that without interrupting the gameplay too much, that would be AWESOME!! Such a cool idea!
@@Thee_Holland I would imagine you would either have small icons under the hero portrait to spend your upgrade points, or simply double/triple click the portrait to go to a frontiers style hero room, pausing the game, and spend your points as you get them. Personally the hero room is preferable, alliance has already had special pop up’s you can trigger that pause the game (clicking enemies to show their stats).
@@sunnymaster6968 Those are both really cool ideas, Sunnymaster. I think I'm actually more in favour of a system that doesn't pause the game, because although Alliance did do it already (as you mentioned), it tends to break up the flow of the stage a lot. But I also see the problem with having to click small icons below the hero-portrait, especially for phone-users... A third option would be to have the order of upgrades you would take be a decision you made *before* entering each stage, much in the same way as you upgrade abilities in Frontiers and onwards.
Eh, I don’t really agree with this at all. To talk about the first game, heroes were added later on yes, but due to that, it meant that all the stages were balanced on towers. Not heroes, which meant this, iron hide had to make the leveling system not permanent or else it would make the stages way too easy. Now this is definitely obvious to anyone that played the games before, however, that goes to show the heroes were never really made for the game and were added for more micro to keep the player busy. A small patch, instead of an entire system. Frontiers and beyond kept adding more to them but made permanent leveling happen, however, just like how heroes needed to level up in the level. Heroes now need to level up permanently. Since the main campaign does scale with the heroes’ xp, therefore it assumes that you don’t have a max level hero. Which is the opposite for post game for which the game assumes you have max hero leveling. Like you said before it matches the star leveling progression. The reason why is because they wanted heroes to be more notable to encourage more people to micro and have more hands on interaction. The permanent leveling system was made so that heroes could have more abilities than two. You ever wondered why the heroes in the first game had two abilities? It’s because to make progression feel good and it be unbalanced each ability had to start off weak before getting stronger but due to that it caused multiple levels needing to be dedicated to upgrading the abilities. Meaning that only levels 3, 6, and 9 are now only available for abilities if we wanted to regress. Which means that if iron hide went back to the old system, at most all heroes would have 3 abilities, opposed to the 5 abilities in frontiers and the 4 basic abilities plus 1 hero abilities in origins and beyond. Speaking of abilities, many people enjoy them and it causes the player to micro even more and keep an eye out since they have more abilities to watch out for instead of the “large damage spell” and reinforcements, with the old leveling system it would be odd to implement, if not impossible, therefore losing a very good feature for one that a select few people enjoy more. My final point is this, for the average player a permanent leveling system just feels better. If you look at games like rogue-lites and compare them to rogue-likes, there are many more of the rogue-lites in the modern landscape of gaming than rogue-likes because the feeling of getting more powerful along your entire journey and comparing yourself from where you began makes a player feel empowered and more motivated to get better and stronger until they can no longer get better. Adding more abilities makes it so the feeling of getting more powerful is stronger. If iron hide did go back to the previous leveling system what would happen is that tower would have to take the stages would have to be balanced on towers solely, heroes would have less abilities, and iron hide would lose potentially new players that will buy their game and maybe older players that like the new leveling system. I don’t really know how the old leveling system was better, the way that I see it was that it was made to fit an already finished game, therefore it’s naturally unrefined. I can understand how people might prefer it since you would have to always find a way to level up your hero as fast as possible, but saying it’s better is just not true. Also to address your final point in the video of how maxed level heroes make early stages more boring, perhaps in the early game since max level heroes can solely some waves but that requires a ton of micro which is the opposite of things being boring since you are actively doing something always. Secondly, if you mean that you don’t have to micro your hero to level them up, I have to say this. You aren’t playing heroes correctly if you play them like that. A hero is always meant to be on the move, only stopping at a choke point when needed. Having a hero stay in place at a choke point makes them less effective and at that point, why have a hero in the first place? Also Alric da goat #Alric4life #Frontiers4life
Thank you for the comment, Plagued. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts, even if I would still tend to disagree with your overall argument. Where I DO agree is that heroes in KR1 had way too few abilities! But I wouldn't say that has much (if anything) to do with the *leveling* system of KR1. Here's my solution: bring back the old KR1 leveling system AND give each hero 4 abilities that become stronger (or simply just unlock) throughout a level + a hero spell. Then we would have the best of both worlds! And you're right that rogueLITES are more popular than rogueLIKES, but the star-system already fills the permanent-progression role! Why do we need to dumb down the hero leveling system as well when we already HAVE a roguelite element in each of the games? Anyway, I really enjoyed reading your comment! And thanks a ton for watching the video
The leveling system is actually a reason why heroes have less abilities. If you look at the progression system for heroes in KR, they gain an ability at level 2, and 4. Upgrading the level 2 ability at level 5, and 8, and upgrading the level 4 ability at level 7, and 10. Since each level should be distinct and simple to understand, that means only three other levels have the ability to gain an ability while also being simple, unless the progression of abilities are changed, which would either make the progression either too fast or too slow. Also to “dumb down” the hero leveling system was added because heroes are given a main spot light, meaning that permanent progression for them just naturally makes sense for newer players. Perhaps you have certain ideas on how to make hero leveling be like the first game while having the hero ability and 4 basic abilities be available, but since I would say am less creative than you (I don’t make videos in the first place, I think that’s a clear indication of that) I can’t really say how that type of progression could work, if at all. But nonetheless, it’s quite fun to see each one of your kingdom Rush videos even if I don’t agree with them. (Which is quite odd since the two videos I did comment on were critical but that’s just coincidental at that point, two nickels or whatever) Anyway, waiting upon thy’s next video. Whether it be kingdom rush or a niche indie game.
@@Plaguedwithdeath Hey, I appreciate your comments a lot, man. Truly. I love having someone to disagree with, and it's all in good spirits if you ask me. Thanks a lot!
Another major problem i have with the new leveling system is that it takes so unbearably long to level up all your heroes to level 10 i actually really hate it, it wastes so much of my time. I always like to have all heroes that i own at max level so i can use anyone that i want, with the original kingdom rush i never have to worry about that at all, its a real time saver. Leveling up heroes is very boring and teadious, nobody likes it anymore.
Hey, that's a good point, Thunderxp. If you don't care for grindy gameplay, that's definitely one thing KR1 did better in this regard. Thanks for the comment!
@@thunderxp4456 Fun Fact: You get more XP when you’re on easier difficulties for some reason. I know it’s like that for Frontiers and Origins, though I don’t know if it’s true for Vengeance and Alliance.
Man, i've never disagreed with someone more than here. I *HATE* the KR1 lvling system. I realy, realy don't want to have my hero being useless for 80% of the level, just for them to upgrade and shine in the last few waves. It's silly! I don't even want to imagine Asra being a pea-shooter for magority of the game, of having Prince Dennas (KRO) summoning 1 knight instead of 5, till he reaches his final level. I want to see my heroes rip and tear. That's why they are heroes. That's why i like placing Raelyn and Toress on one lane, while building towers in the other - cause it's fun, and it gives me more choices on what to do. If Toress didn't spawn his men, or Dante's ghost dealt almost no damage when they are at level 1 - they won't even FEEL like heroes. They are just... flippin lvl3 barrack units! And the worst part - is them resetting. It's like getting a feel of a good life, and then being brought back to suburbs. "Wow! Look and how cool and powerful my hero looks, aaaaand he has mo abilites now... again." What was the point? I don't feel like i'm progressing. Because i don't And while, yes, everybody has their own taste - i don't underdtand why you would like it.
Hey man, thanks a lot for the comment. Truly, I love when people disagree with my views, because it's fun to hear different perspectives. I think, in some ways, you could say the same thing about the towers in each level: "why do they disappear at the start of every level - I just built them?! Ugh, that's so annoying!!" To me, that isn't too different from your hero going back to level 1. There's something to be said about feeling powerful. But to me, Kingdom Rush is more about feeling like you've accomplished a strategically or tactically impressive feat. And having heroes cover an entire lane by themselves just doesn't do that for me, because that's more about a power trip than strategy. Besides, I wouldn't call heroes in the early game useless, I would just say they aren't broken. As you said, they're more like strong barracks units until they reach the late game - but again, in the early game, you usually won't *have* strong barracks units, so heroes still feel like heroes! - to me, at least. But thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, and I'm sure some people agree a lot more with your view than with mine!
I personally like the newer leveling system. It gives the notion that as you move through the campaign your heroes grow stronger with each stage and hopefully, by the end, they've reached the max level. I totally understand the slough of leveling each hero to level 10 after completeing the campaign, but I prefer it over the system of KR1.
Just fuse both Experience system for their skills and some passive stats for late game But inside the map heroes need to level up(or warm up) to use their skills and upgrade their stats Having their base stats at level 1 with the level 1 skills and level 10 being x2 the base stats and having all their abilities (maybe use the stars as points instead of every heroe having his own to make things less repetitive?)
When you had to ask your dad to know that that Original Kingdom Rush had no Heroes initially. I though it was common knowledge. It was even called the "Premium" version because it was also paid.
My main problem is that you have to grind HOURS if you want heroes to be effective. I think people assumed that Dianyun is balanced because they just didn't want to waste half of their life on leveling him up, and when Ironhide fixed that they started to realise that he is op. Also in later games lvl 10 heroes are destroying early game challenges because enemies are just too weak, especially in Alliance, where early and mid game is already easy. So yeah, i think old levelling system is way better.
Glad someone else agrees. The star system makes me not want to try out new heroes because they take too long to reach their full potential. I like having to keep my hero alive so they can get xp instead of just waiting for them to hit level 10 permanently and sending them off to die blocking something.
Y’know, I heard Broduke mention how many looked fondly upon the first games hero leveling system for being the most balanced in one or two of his videos and I was able to understand the baseline of that concept just from a minute of thinking about it. Heroes can get pretty powerful after all, and having to level up your heroes each level makes them more balanced. Also worth noting that heroes became more and more powerful as time went on. They got a new leveling system and more abilities in frontiers, spells in origins, and a whole star/souls path dedicated to them in vengeance. But now that I see your video, there is also the issue of heroes being maxed out, and then you won’t have to worry about leveling them up anymore. My feelings for this are mixed. First off, and this is a suggestion Voduke already made, but let us be able to change the levels of heroes WITHOUT going into the app data in notepad. This allows us to challenge ourself and gives us more freedom of choice on how we play the game. It wouldn’t solve your issue of permanent leveling style you detailed in the video, but it’s something I would prefer. Remember, you can edit the star/soul system however and whenever you want and I think it would be beneficial if hero levels could be the same way in that regard. Plus we can take things a step further and limit the upgrades and hero levels in heroic and iron challenges to make them more special and challenging. Second, it took me a while to think about this, but I think what makes the hero system in kr1 cool was you would have to pay extra attention to your hero in the early game, which can be a particularly difficult and challenging time, ESPECIALLY in the elite stages. Also the fast regeneration is nice to :) Third… I… actually don’t want the first hero system to return. I know this may sound ridiculous but I’ve really grown to enjoy the hero system krf and onwards. Like, upgrading captain blackthorne in krf felt really special, and getting doom tank to level ten in vengeance was fun too! Granted, in origins impossible mode leveling heroes felt like it took a God damn eternity to level heroes, but balancing regular skills with the powerful spells were a neat addition to the strategy. I’ve grown to love the new system so much that while I still love the first game hero system, I love the extra abilities and spells of the other games even more. If we were to return to the classic hero system then I would want more abilities as the heroes in Kr1 only had two. I guess that makes them more balanced though. This comment was way longer than intended. And don’t question me on my interest! It’s *MY* neurodivergence and *I* get to choose the special interest! Edit: forgot to mention, but I’ve found myself to be a big fan of the two hero system. Although that might just be because of Torres.
Hi Mark, Thanks a ton for the comment! I had no idea Voduke had talked about this issue already, haha. Something I wanted to mention in the video but couldn't find the right place to fit in was the fact that, as you mentioned, Hero Spells as well as heroes having more than two abilities each, IS something I like more about the newer systems. They should definitely bring those features back in KR6! Thanks again for the comment, always lovely to read your thoughts. And praise be us Neurodivergent folks!
No way I find you here as well, cheers mate! I agree with the sentiment regarding heroes leveling up too. It would best if they kept the system of KR1 with the information tab of the games after it, but now that IronHide have kept using the new xp system going back would alienate too many people.
I disagree, I completely didn’t care to use or bother with the heroes in KD1 since it felt like the towers did always more damage than any of the heroes, but that is just my opinion
I can see your point but I prefer the new system having the heroes to level 10 and not worry about grinding exp is really great for me over having to level them up every single level over and over again
That's fair, Marko. In some ways it comes down to how much micro-management you feel like doing throughout the level, so I can relate to what you're saying. Thanks for the comment!
This should be interesting. Edit: Ok you know what yeah. I agreed. I always like the first KR hero system. Was it more difficult to keep you hero alive and micro to avoid getting hit? Maybe sure. And are waves are freaking difficult and high level hero helps a lot? Absolutely. Is it good for casual players or "just for fun" players who didn't grind goddam 100 hours getting every stars achievement and memorized almost every single levels' wave patterns. Don't know honestly. KR Frontier was my favorite and it still is. But not because of the changes of hero system, tbh I pretty sure I don't even pay that much attention to the hero system. I just accepted it is what it is. All and All it will be really cool to return the KR 1 . 1 to 10 in single game. No more needless grinding because the hero you wanted to play with is not a max level yet.
Preach, while it's my least favourite general game of the whole series, I do really miss the aspect of trying to build your hero up as much as possible, and it's not like the lack of abilities would be a problem now with spells and other mechanics.
Wow, I love how original your take is, Grateful. Most people (I think) usually shill the first game, so it's cool to hear someone with a different perspective. And yeah, I think you're totally right!
Kingdom Rush wasn't intended to be played with heroes. On the flash version, heroes would be available for 15stars and work as some sort of "bonus extra mode" just for the fun of it. You mostly got much fun out of it when getting the premium anyway, alongside the reinforcement costumes and the lightning spell
@@Thee_Holland basically you either had to sacrifice a few of your upgrades for a hero or play the game without them. Unless of course you got a premium file that gave you access to all heroes, 15 extra stars so you can use them whenever, a 3rd spell that was a lightning and served as a single target high damage spell, a third reinforcement and a bunch of costumes for your reinforcements. I used the star wars ones all the time but there was also a mortal kombat one and another one if I remember correctly.
One thing that kinda ties into this: it's stupid that early stages don't have preset abilities unlocked like in KR1. If you want to challenge yourself you have to intentionally get rid of upgrades just to have any semblance of fun. They're challenging if you do them right after you unlock them, but then your heroes are gonna level up faster than normal so the campaign levels going forward will become easier and easier because of broken hero abilities. You just can't win, you always need to self-impose rules if you want the early and mid-game to be challenging. Not to mention Impossible mode in Alliance, up until the 3rd world it's a snooze fest.
I think I understand what you're saying, and if so, I agree. *No doubt* you're right about Alliance-impossible mode being a snooze fest - calling it "impossible" is almost an insult!
Hi KongKvist, Yes, the Hero Spell could be counted too, and I thought of it as well when making the video but couldn't find the proper space to fit it in. But yeah, I should've definitely included it as a third change. You're right. Thanks for the comment!
We have players here complaining about grinding, not wanting to level up their heroes and wants to instantly level up to level 10 whoever hero they choose. THERE IS A GOOD NEWS IF YOU WANT TO LEVEL UP YOUR HERO FAST! Keep playing the game until you get far! Every game does this, the farther you go the more difficult the enemies become! Just level up your heroes at farther stages specially in stages that is a boss stage! In a boss stage if this is where you want to keep replayng the level until your hero reaches level 10 fight the 3rd boss up to the the last boss, if you do not want to fight bossess just choose a far away level a difficult level that you can comfortably finish getting 3 stars. NOW KEEP RINSING AND REPEATING FOR EVERY HERO UNTIL ALL HEROES REACH LEVEL 10! DO NOT BE LAZY as it will dumb down your interest in the game! You will get bored if you complain! THE FIRST KINGDOM RUSH IS THE BEST IN THE WHOLE SERIES! Yo, IronHide, Release immediately Kingdom Rush 6 in 2026 December!
@@Thee_Holland Why would I be upset? The leveling up mechanic is perfectly fine to me whether it is permanent or you need to level up in every level because it resets back to Level 1.
Yay new video :DD Also some ideas: Frontiers, Origins and Kr 1 review Favorite Kingdom Rush levels Favorite Kingdom Rush Heroes Favorite Tower synergy? Fav Alliance hero synergy? Tierlist?
Hi Fox, Thanks for watching, and those are all great ideas! I'm of course still considering the Frontiers video, although I'm missing an "angle of entry" to talk about it. I want to have something interesting to say about Frontiers before I make that video. I also thought about making a tierlist just this morning! But we'll see what I get up to next... Appreciate the comment!
I remember playing the flash version a lot and after a while i bought the premium version, this had a 3rd Reinforcement, Skins (i loved the Star Wars ones), and a Lightning Bolt Spell. I think it might have been my first bought micro transaction even. I do not often buy micro transactions still, but i liked the things and loved the game. I played before heroes where a thing. I later came across the frontiers flash version, but it did not play/work very well on the computer so i never got into that one or other Kingdom Rush games.
So interesting that thing with the Star Wars skins, I wonder how they were allowed to do that... probably didn't say "Star Wars" outright, but still. Thanks for the comment!
@@Thee_Holland @Thee_Holland Oh i just found a wiki about it (just look for "kingdom Rush flash premium" and it will pop up somehwere, can't post the link because RUclips keeps removing the comment 😅) There was also Street Fighter and Mortal Kombats, and you could choose a skin option. I don't know about the licensing IP or if they just used it
@@Thee_Holland I just found that there is a wiki page about what the premium content was, it did also contain mortal kombat and street fighter skins, you could pick a skin option I don't know how they did it with the IP, or if they just use the stuff
In a point where you will reason that you should keep doing micro management to be more alert, busy and to level up your hero up to level 10 this is a good reason if you like the game to have ONE ROGUE LIKE ELEMENT! Rogue-Likes have this mechanic when you go to the next stage or replay again a stage to get a higher score or better performance every bonus, power-up or weapons or anything that you go will disappear and reset back to being weak. TO ME THIS IS AN OUT DATED GAME DESIGN FOR A TOWER DEFENSE IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A ROLE PLAYING GAME MECHANIC! It is more tedious to keep leveling up your hero in every stage. You want to be busy, play harder stages where there are swarms of enemies! Kingdom Rush starting in 2019 was updated by IronHide and it became harder. When selecting a difficulty they changed Hard to Veteran and this was the newest version and even the travel area on the map where you can place your hero changed a bit what I mean is its detection when clicking on the screen and the circle Icon of the rain of fire changed from a red cool looking crest to a broken lines of orange circle AHHHHGGGGH A BAD DESIGN DESICION! So No More hard only Casual, Normal and Veteran. All the previous strategies that I do is ineffective because of more enemies coming out. This way, your hero will always get busy. Not all heroes will reach level 10 in every stage you play YOU KNOW THIS! YOU REALLY LIKE THIS OUT DATED LEVELING MECHANIC? WHAT I WANT TO TELL IRONHIDE IS TO UPDATE KINGDOM RUSH BECAUSE THIS IS THEIR BEST GAME IN THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE TO UPDATE IT AND MAKE LEVELING PERMANENT BUT THIS TIME UP TO LEVEL 20 TO 30 AND GIVE THE GAME A NIGHTMARE MODE FOR HEROES THAT WILL REACH LEVEL 30! Heroes with their own skills, 2 more heroes, new expansions so yes MORE STAGES FOR US TO COLLECT UP TO 200 STARS THIS TIME AND 2 MORE ADDITIONAL TOWERS! 1 tower that shoots longer range than archer and mage and 1 more barracks that will house spear men and the extra militia that you land on the map from 2 make 3 three because originally this was 3 and add that lightning spell in the Flash Version! Next is also to give new updates and expansions to Frontiers and Origins! I want the leveling up TO BE PERMANENT, WELL SAID FROM MY SIDE! Grinding is necessary for leveling up if you y RPGs and Ironhide put 1 RPG mechanic in their game. In some stages, having a hero at level 10 makes it a lot easier but in farther and harder stages, the difficulty of the stage will still defeat your hero at level 10 if you do not micro and use a wrong strategy. For me your argument that Ironhide changed this in Frontiers that this is a bad game design is not a reasonable statement. Only a few here agreed with you because they do not like grinding! I will give one tip on how to level up faster on a separate comment! Kingdom Rush: Frontiers was awarded Best Game by Armor Games. To all the people here who reviewed Kingdom Rush, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO COMPLAINED ABOUT ITS LEVELING SYSTEM! Nothing more to talk about this short video!
If a "rogue-like" gameplay element to you is one that resets every level... ...then why aren't you complaining that all of your towers disappear at the start of each level? Thanks for the comment anyway!
@@Thee_Holland Dude your understanding of the mechanic of a rogue-like is wrong. YOUR ARGUMENT TO ME IS STUPID! Kingdom Rush is a strategic game. A Tower Defense game that is a sub-genre of RTS. Saying that you need to build again the towers when playing a new level is like saying, I WILL BUILD AGAIN MY BUILDINGS IN A RTS GAME! Dude this is a strategy game so you can do different strategies! Your reasoning is not a game mechanic of rogue-like!
You bring up valid points The old system makes it so that you can't just park your hero in one spot and ignore them for the majority of the level and makes early game interesting Also the Regeneration system in the first game makes for sone dynamic gameplay as you wouldn't need to wait for too long before your hero is ready for combat unlike in the later games where unless you get healing abilities from towers or use a hero that has health Regen it sucks that when your hero is low HP they stay out of combat for a much longer time But i prefer the new system because having a hero that stays at level 10 makes harder levels more easier (i also figured out a way to cheat the grinding so i don't have to waste time getting a hero up to level 10) and already having abilities unlocked is more desirable for me Still you bought up a great point
Do you think the 2 hero system would synergies well with the kr1 leveling system? Also great video, short but nice just trying to get something off your chest, hope Ironhide listens.
Hi Rafael, That's a really superb question. I think this would be my answer: I've found that I don't really like the 2-hero system, because it's too hard for me to control properly on a keyboard. And I think adding KR1 leveling to that soup might be too much. So although I appreciate Ironhide for trying out something new with the 2-hero system, I would encourage them to return to a 1-hero system (with KR1 leveling) in KR6. Thanks a lot for the comment!
@@Thee_Holland i actually kinda like the 2 heroes system for how fun it is, but I hate the fact that it comes at the cost of sacrificing big spells, I get it it’s for balancing issues but it’s pretty much one of the main identities of kingdom rush. In kingdom rush 6 I hope they brought the big spells back,and I’ll be alright if we have to sacrifice the 2 heroes systems for the return,but it would be nice if they found a way to add it with the 2 hero system.
@@Thee_Holland also just a bit of a recommendation, do you think you could make a video about your thoughts about the new tower system (where we went from having four towers with two upgrade paths to five customizable towers)? It’s alright if it’s takes a long time because you want to cover other games,like I said just a recommendation.
@@rafaelsilaen9057 Hey, that's a really neat recommendation, I actually like that a lot as an idea for a video. I might do that at some point! Thanks for the idea
Honestly, the dumbest part about Hero levelling to me in general is that XP gain is reduced in Veteran and Impossible when it should be increased on those difficulties, if anything. That all being said, seeing the old system return with KRA's 2-heroes approach (with heroes having as many skills as they do now) would be quite nice. I would certainly prefer that over having to grind them on Casual difficulty and finding the most efficient levels for XP grinding over and over.
I agree with that one hundred percent, Taurmega. It really makes no sense that you get LESS experience on harder difficulties! (At least as long as EXP is permanent - maybe it would make sense if it wasn't, like in KR1). Thanks for the comment!
That's true, but it's not really my issue with the current system. I don't want to be forced to pick a weaker, level 1 hero, instead of a powerful level 10 hero when I could just do that
I agree honestly. In KR1, the early game always stayed interesting even with the most OP characters like Ignus due to you having to work for that power. It’s also funny that KR1 doesn’t have any dragons bending and snapping the balance in half as well. I love Frontiers more than 1, but they should have definitely kept the old system for sure.
Algo parecido pero no específicamente esa mecánica vieja, a mí nunca me gustó, pero es verdad que en cierto momento al maxear a tu héroe y tropas las mecánicas de upgrade dejan de ser parte del juego
I disagree. Having something to grind for in each level instead of focusing on building up my defenses is not ideal tower defense game design. The exact opposite of what you claimed. Making something grindy does not always mean good game design, newer hero leveling is much better in my opinion. Great video though.
Grindy? Of anything's grindy it's levelling up a backlog of 5+ heroes after you've already beaten most stages, I don't want to wait an hour so I can make good use of my hero, I want to have that hero already able to reach his/her full potential
Honestly, I agree. First kingdom rush is objectively the hardest in terms of defending (Frontiers has busted enemy units). Not only you have to manage gold, but you need to keep your hero active and alive. Hope that the 7th chapter of kingdom rush (yes, I do count legends as well) would have the same hero progression system as KR.
That's true as well, KR1 is definitely one of - if not THE - hardest Kingdom Rush game! And that might be due to the hero system, that's a good point. I hope so too!
That's an interesting idea, although that would probably require that they could level up faster throughout the stage so you could actually get them to a pretty decent level by the end. But neat idea.
Tom Holland done gave up being Spiderman to post KR
You know, I weighed my options and had to conclude this was more worth my time.
spiderman: kingdom to rush
@@chaitanyagupta6668 Into The Kingdom-verse
@@Thee_Holland Based honestly :)
@NIGHTBLOOM1 He went through a character arc after he saw the trailer for that tennis movie with Zendaya
I’m a fan of the newer system. I find that manually choosing which hero skills to upgrade from level to level allows me to better understand each skill and how to use them aswell as choosing which ones I want to upgrade. This also incentivises me to use more heroes as I upgraded them all to level 10 and learnt what ones I liked instead of sticking with the same one. But I get your point and do think the old game heroes are special
A really concise argument, and you're right that the newer systems do (kind of) incentivize using multiple heroes, although I would counter with the fact that you then have to go from your powerful level 10 hero to using a super weak level 1 hero which isn't immediately strategically beneficial.
Thanks a lot for the comment
What if we had the kr1 system but we were also able to choose which abilities to unlock/upgrade each time the hero levels up? I think that would be a great way to do it.
@@SilentSteff That's a really, really interesting idea, Silent... if you could do that without interrupting the gameplay too much, that would be AWESOME!! Such a cool idea!
@@Thee_Holland I would imagine you would either have small icons under the hero portrait to spend your upgrade points, or simply double/triple click the portrait to go to a frontiers style hero room, pausing the game, and spend your points as you get them. Personally the hero room is preferable, alliance has already had special pop up’s you can trigger that pause the game (clicking enemies to show their stats).
@@sunnymaster6968 Those are both really cool ideas, Sunnymaster. I think I'm actually more in favour of a system that doesn't pause the game, because although Alliance did do it already (as you mentioned), it tends to break up the flow of the stage a lot.
But I also see the problem with having to click small icons below the hero-portrait, especially for phone-users...
A third option would be to have the order of upgrades you would take be a decision you made *before* entering each stage, much in the same way as you upgrade abilities in Frontiers and onwards.
I also prefer the KR1 leveling system.
I'm glad to hear it!
Me too, i like the system from the frontiers and the others games, but the level up system from the KR1 is simple and better to me
@@hollowknightbr8844 Agreed!
Eh, I don’t really agree with this at all. To talk about the first game, heroes were added later on yes, but due to that, it meant that all the stages were balanced on towers. Not heroes, which meant this, iron hide had to make the leveling system not permanent or else it would make the stages way too easy. Now this is definitely obvious to anyone that played the games before, however, that goes to show the heroes were never really made for the game and were added for more micro to keep the player busy. A small patch, instead of an entire system.
Frontiers and beyond kept adding more to them but made permanent leveling happen, however, just like how heroes needed to level up in the level. Heroes now need to level up permanently. Since the main campaign does scale with the heroes’ xp, therefore it assumes that you don’t have a max level hero. Which is the opposite for post game for which the game assumes you have max hero leveling. Like you said before it matches the star leveling progression. The reason why is because they wanted heroes to be more notable to encourage more people to micro and have more hands on interaction. The permanent leveling system was made so that heroes could have more abilities than two. You ever wondered why the heroes in the first game had two abilities? It’s because to make progression feel good and it be unbalanced each ability had to start off weak before getting stronger but due to that it caused multiple levels needing to be dedicated to upgrading the abilities. Meaning that only levels 3, 6, and 9 are now only available for abilities if we wanted to regress. Which means that if iron hide went back to the old system, at most all heroes would have 3 abilities, opposed to the 5 abilities in frontiers and the 4 basic abilities plus 1 hero abilities in origins and beyond. Speaking of abilities, many people enjoy them and it causes the player to micro even more and keep an eye out since they have more abilities to watch out for instead of the “large damage spell” and reinforcements, with the old leveling system it would be odd to implement, if not impossible, therefore losing a very good feature for one that a select few people enjoy more.
My final point is this, for the average player a permanent leveling system just feels better. If you look at games like rogue-lites and compare them to rogue-likes, there are many more of the rogue-lites in the modern landscape of gaming than rogue-likes because the feeling of getting more powerful along your entire journey and comparing yourself from where you began makes a player feel empowered and more motivated to get better and stronger until they can no longer get better. Adding more abilities makes it so the feeling of getting more powerful is stronger.
If iron hide did go back to the previous leveling system what would happen is that tower would have to take the stages would have to be balanced on towers solely, heroes would have less abilities, and iron hide would lose potentially new players that will buy their game and maybe older players that like the new leveling system.
I don’t really know how the old leveling system was better, the way that I see it was that it was made to fit an already finished game, therefore it’s naturally unrefined. I can understand how people might prefer it since you would have to always find a way to level up your hero as fast as possible, but saying it’s better is just not true. Also to address your final point in the video of how maxed level heroes make early stages more boring, perhaps in the early game since max level heroes can solely some waves but that requires a ton of micro which is the opposite of things being boring since you are actively doing something always. Secondly, if you mean that you don’t have to micro your hero to level them up, I have to say this. You aren’t playing heroes correctly if you play them like that. A hero is always meant to be on the move, only stopping at a choke point when needed. Having a hero stay in place at a choke point makes them less effective and at that point, why have a hero in the first place?
Also Alric da goat #Alric4life #Frontiers4life
Thank you for the comment, Plagued.
I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts, even if I would still tend to disagree with your overall argument.
Where I DO agree is that heroes in KR1 had way too few abilities! But I wouldn't say that has much (if anything) to do with the *leveling* system of KR1.
Here's my solution: bring back the old KR1 leveling system AND give each hero 4 abilities that become stronger (or simply just unlock) throughout a level + a hero spell. Then we would have the best of both worlds!
And you're right that rogueLITES are more popular than rogueLIKES, but the star-system already fills the permanent-progression role! Why do we need to dumb down the hero leveling system as well when we already HAVE a roguelite element in each of the games?
Anyway, I really enjoyed reading your comment! And thanks a ton for watching the video
The leveling system is actually a reason why heroes have less abilities. If you look at the progression system for heroes in KR, they gain an ability at level 2, and 4. Upgrading the level 2 ability at level 5, and 8, and upgrading the level 4 ability at level 7, and 10. Since each level should be distinct and simple to understand, that means only three other levels have the ability to gain an ability while also being simple, unless the progression of abilities are changed, which would either make the progression either too fast or too slow. Also to “dumb down” the hero leveling system was added because heroes are given a main spot light, meaning that permanent progression for them just naturally makes sense for newer players.
Perhaps you have certain ideas on how to make hero leveling be like the first game while having the hero ability and 4 basic abilities be available, but since I would say am less creative than you (I don’t make videos in the first place, I think that’s a clear indication of that) I can’t really say how that type of progression could work, if at all.
But nonetheless, it’s quite fun to see each one of your kingdom Rush videos even if I don’t agree with them. (Which is quite odd since the two videos I did comment on were critical but that’s just coincidental at that point, two nickels or whatever)
Anyway, waiting upon thy’s next video. Whether it be kingdom rush or a niche indie game.
@@Plaguedwithdeath Hey, I appreciate your comments a lot, man. Truly. I love having someone to disagree with, and it's all in good spirits if you ask me.
Thanks a lot!
Another major problem i have with the new leveling system is that it takes so unbearably long to level up all your heroes to level 10 i actually really hate it, it wastes so much of my time. I always like to have all heroes that i own at max level so i can use anyone that i want, with the original kingdom rush i never have to worry about that at all, its a real time saver.
Leveling up heroes is very boring and teadious, nobody likes it anymore.
Hey, that's a good point, Thunderxp. If you don't care for grindy gameplay, that's definitely one thing KR1 did better in this regard. Thanks for the comment!
@@thunderxp4456 Fun Fact: You get more XP when you’re on easier difficulties for some reason. I know it’s like that for Frontiers and Origins, though I don’t know if it’s true for Vengeance and Alliance.
@@GritterTheBucketheadIt is also true for Vengeance and Alliance.
god they used to cost 15 stars to even use on flash.
good times
What used to cost 15 stars?
@@Thee_Holland heroes. you had to waste 15 stars to use one
@@michadrzymaa2206 That's really interesting!! I never knew :D
I wonder if most players still remember the star wars and mortal kombat reinforcement units you could get😅
@@Jonnell01 Whaat tell me more!!!
back in the flash version of kr1 i remember it costing 15 stars to unlock the hero room
Whaaat no way, that's such a cool detail I'd never heard of! Thanks for sharing that
Yeah but they had barely heroes
But you only had acces to the first 3 heroes anyway .
Man, i've never disagreed with someone more than here.
I *HATE* the KR1 lvling system. I realy, realy don't want to have my hero being useless for 80% of the level, just for them to upgrade and shine in the last few waves. It's silly!
I don't even want to imagine Asra being a pea-shooter for magority of the game, of having Prince Dennas (KRO) summoning 1 knight instead of 5, till he reaches his final level.
I want to see my heroes rip and tear. That's why they are heroes. That's why i like placing Raelyn and Toress on one lane, while building towers in the other - cause it's fun, and it gives me more choices on what to do. If Toress didn't spawn his men, or Dante's ghost dealt almost no damage when they are at level 1 - they won't even FEEL like heroes. They are just... flippin lvl3 barrack units!
And the worst part - is them resetting. It's like getting a feel of a good life, and then being brought back to suburbs. "Wow! Look and how cool and powerful my hero looks, aaaaand he has mo abilites now... again." What was the point?
I don't feel like i'm progressing. Because i don't
And while, yes, everybody has their own taste - i don't underdtand why you would like it.
Hey man, thanks a lot for the comment. Truly, I love when people disagree with my views, because it's fun to hear different perspectives.
I think, in some ways, you could say the same thing about the towers in each level: "why do they disappear at the start of every level - I just built them?! Ugh, that's so annoying!!" To me, that isn't too different from your hero going back to level 1.
There's something to be said about feeling powerful. But to me, Kingdom Rush is more about feeling like you've accomplished a strategically or tactically impressive feat. And having heroes cover an entire lane by themselves just doesn't do that for me, because that's more about a power trip than strategy.
Besides, I wouldn't call heroes in the early game useless, I would just say they aren't broken. As you said, they're more like strong barracks units until they reach the late game - but again, in the early game, you usually won't *have* strong barracks units, so heroes still feel like heroes! - to me, at least.
But thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, and I'm sure some people agree a lot more with your view than with mine!
I'd be hard pressed to call earlygame Ten Shi or Hacksaw peashooters, and those first 5 levels come instantly if you micro your hero properly.
I personally like the newer leveling system. It gives the notion that as you move through the campaign your heroes grow stronger with each stage and hopefully, by the end, they've reached the max level. I totally understand the slough of leveling each hero to level 10 after completeing the campaign, but I prefer it over the system of KR1.
Very fair opinion, and well said my man
Just fuse both
Experience system for their skills and some passive stats for late game
But inside the map heroes need to level up(or warm up) to use their skills and upgrade their stats
Having their base stats at level 1 with the level 1 skills and level 10 being x2 the base stats and having all their abilities (maybe use the stars as points instead of every heroe having his own to make things less repetitive?)
All very, very great ideas, my friend!!
Thanks for sharing them!
When you had to ask your dad to know that that Original Kingdom Rush had no Heroes initially.
I though it was common knowledge. It was even called the "Premium" version because it was also paid.
I was 8 when the original game came out, so that might've been why I never knew ':D
My main problem is that you have to grind HOURS if you want heroes to be effective. I think people assumed that Dianyun is balanced because they just didn't want to waste half of their life on leveling him up, and when Ironhide fixed that they started to realise that he is op. Also in later games lvl 10 heroes are destroying early game challenges because enemies are just too weak, especially in Alliance, where early and mid game is already easy. So yeah, i think old levelling system is way better.
Those are great points. Nothing much to say except: "well said"
Glad someone else agrees. The star system makes me not want to try out new heroes because they take too long to reach their full potential. I like having to keep my hero alive so they can get xp instead of just waiting for them to hit level 10 permanently and sending them off to die blocking something.
Spot on! Love to hear it, Ofxzh!
Y’know, I heard Broduke mention how many looked fondly upon the first games hero leveling system for being the most balanced in one or two of his videos and I was able to understand the baseline of that concept just from a minute of thinking about it. Heroes can get pretty powerful after all, and having to level up your heroes each level makes them more balanced. Also worth noting that heroes became more and more powerful as time went on. They got a new leveling system and more abilities in frontiers, spells in origins, and a whole star/souls path dedicated to them in vengeance. But now that I see your video, there is also the issue of heroes being maxed out, and then you won’t have to worry about leveling them up anymore. My feelings for this are mixed.
First off, and this is a suggestion Voduke already made, but let us be able to change the levels of heroes WITHOUT going into the app data in notepad. This allows us to challenge ourself and gives us more freedom of choice on how we play the game. It wouldn’t solve your issue of permanent leveling style you detailed in the video, but it’s something I would prefer. Remember, you can edit the star/soul system however and whenever you want and I think it would be beneficial if hero levels could be the same way in that regard. Plus we can take things a step further and limit the upgrades and hero levels in heroic and iron challenges to make them more special and challenging.
Second, it took me a while to think about this, but I think what makes the hero system in kr1 cool was you would have to pay extra attention to your hero in the early game, which can be a particularly difficult and challenging time, ESPECIALLY in the elite stages. Also the fast regeneration is nice to :)
Third… I… actually don’t want the first hero system to return. I know this may sound ridiculous but I’ve really grown to enjoy the hero system krf and onwards. Like, upgrading captain blackthorne in krf felt really special, and getting doom tank to level ten in vengeance was fun too! Granted, in origins impossible mode leveling heroes felt like it took a God damn eternity to level heroes, but balancing regular skills with the powerful spells were a neat addition to the strategy. I’ve grown to love the new system so much that while I still love the first game hero system, I love the extra abilities and spells of the other games even more. If we were to return to the classic hero system then I would want more abilities as the heroes in Kr1 only had two. I guess that makes them more balanced though.
This comment was way longer than intended. And don’t question me on my interest! It’s *MY* neurodivergence and *I* get to choose the special interest!
Edit: forgot to mention, but I’ve found myself to be a big fan of the two hero system. Although that might just be because of Torres.
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the comment! I had no idea Voduke had talked about this issue already, haha.
Something I wanted to mention in the video but couldn't find the right place to fit in was the fact that, as you mentioned, Hero Spells as well as heroes having more than two abilities each, IS something I like more about the newer systems. They should definitely bring those features back in KR6!
Thanks again for the comment, always lovely to read your thoughts. And praise be us Neurodivergent folks!
@@Thee_Holland ha ha ha ha ha! No problem! Nothing I love more than talking about this semi niche tower defense series!
@@MarkTheDevourer I'll raise a glass to that!
No way I find you here as well, cheers mate!
I agree with the sentiment regarding heroes leveling up too.
It would best if they kept the system of KR1 with the information tab of the games after it, but now that IronHide have kept using the new xp system going back would alienate too many people.
@@markopopovic9874 Yeah, going back probably isn't something Ironhide would realistically do, but I remain hopeful despite that
I disagree, I completely didn’t care to use or bother with the heroes in KD1 since it felt like the towers did always more damage than any of the heroes, but that is just my opinion
Well, appreciate the honesty and the take
I can see your point but I prefer the new system having the heroes to level 10 and not worry about grinding exp is really great for me over having to level them up every single level over and over again
That's fair, Marko. In some ways it comes down to how much micro-management you feel like doing throughout the level, so I can relate to what you're saying.
Thanks for the comment!
@@Thee_Holland all good bro everybody has opinions and reasons behind them
This should be interesting.
Edit: Ok you know what yeah. I agreed. I always like the first KR hero system. Was it more difficult to keep you hero alive and micro to avoid getting hit? Maybe sure. And are waves are freaking difficult and high level hero helps a lot? Absolutely. Is it good for casual players or "just for fun" players who didn't grind goddam 100 hours getting every stars achievement and memorized almost every single levels' wave patterns. Don't know honestly.
KR Frontier was my favorite and it still is. But not because of the changes of hero system, tbh I pretty sure I don't even pay that much attention to the hero system. I just accepted it is what it is.
All and All it will be really cool to return the KR 1 . 1 to 10 in single game. No more needless grinding because the hero you wanted to play with is not a max level yet.
Oh boy do I hope that comes true! You gotta report back after you've watched the video ;D
@@Thee_Holland
Done chief.
So many good points, I love to hear all that you're saying. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Preach, while it's my least favourite general game of the whole series, I do really miss the aspect of trying to build your hero up as much as possible, and it's not like the lack of abilities would be a problem now with spells and other mechanics.
Wow, I love how original your take is, Grateful. Most people (I think) usually shill the first game, so it's cool to hear someone with a different perspective.
And yeah, I think you're totally right!
Kingdom Rush wasn't intended to be played with heroes. On the flash version, heroes would be available for 15stars and work as some sort of "bonus extra mode" just for the fun of it. You mostly got much fun out of it when getting the premium anyway, alongside the reinforcement costumes and the lightning spell
It's super interesting that so many of you know about this 15-star-price tag since I'd NEVER heard of it! But cool!
@@Thee_Holland basically you either had to sacrifice a few of your upgrades for a hero or play the game without them.
Unless of course you got a premium file that gave you access to all heroes, 15 extra stars so you can use them whenever, a 3rd spell that was a lightning and served as a single target high damage spell, a third reinforcement and a bunch of costumes for your reinforcements. I used the star wars ones all the time but there was also a mortal kombat one and another one if I remember correctly.
@@Paragon-rq7vl I think I'm gonna look that up, Paragon, that sounds awesome!
One thing that kinda ties into this: it's stupid that early stages don't have preset abilities unlocked like in KR1. If you want to challenge yourself you have to intentionally get rid of upgrades just to have any semblance of fun. They're challenging if you do them right after you unlock them, but then your heroes are gonna level up faster than normal so the campaign levels going forward will become easier and easier because of broken hero abilities. You just can't win, you always need to self-impose rules if you want the early and mid-game to be challenging. Not to mention Impossible mode in Alliance, up until the 3rd world it's a snooze fest.
I think I understand what you're saying, and if so, I agree.
*No doubt* you're right about Alliance-impossible mode being a snooze fest - calling it "impossible" is almost an insult!
Hi. Super nice video. I also love the first system. You say that there have only been two changes to the hero system, but what about the hero spell?
Hi KongKvist,
Yes, the Hero Spell could be counted too, and I thought of it as well when making the video but couldn't find the proper space to fit it in.
But yeah, I should've definitely included it as a third change. You're right.
Thanks for the comment!
2:13 bro is about to experience peak KingdomRush
Loved the First game leveling system more than anything :)
I'm so glad to hear that, brother!
We have players here complaining about grinding, not wanting to level up their heroes and wants to instantly level up to level 10 whoever hero they choose. THERE IS A GOOD NEWS IF YOU WANT TO LEVEL UP YOUR HERO FAST! Keep playing the game until you get far! Every game does this, the farther you go the more difficult the enemies become! Just level up your heroes at farther stages specially in stages that is a boss stage! In a boss stage if this is where you want to keep replayng the level until your hero reaches level 10 fight the 3rd boss up to the the last boss, if you do not want to fight bossess just choose a far away level a difficult level that you can comfortably finish getting 3 stars. NOW KEEP RINSING AND REPEATING FOR EVERY HERO UNTIL ALL HEROES REACH LEVEL 10! DO NOT BE LAZY as it will dumb down your interest in the game! You will get bored if you complain! THE FIRST KINGDOM RUSH IS THE BEST IN THE WHOLE SERIES! Yo, IronHide, Release immediately Kingdom Rush 6 in 2026 December!
@@Thee_Holland
I want to thank you for reminding me, edited the wrong spelling. You know what I mean, FARTHER FURTHER STAGES from Stage 18 and up!
@@awakenedsoul2638 I get it man, just calm down. There's no reason to get this upset
@@Thee_Holland
Why would I be upset? The leveling up mechanic is perfectly fine to me whether it is permanent or you need to level up in every level because it resets back to Level 1.
Yay new video :DD
Also some ideas:
Frontiers, Origins and Kr 1 review
Favorite Kingdom Rush levels
Favorite Kingdom Rush Heroes
Favorite Tower synergy?
Fav Alliance hero synergy?
Tierlist?
Hi Fox,
Thanks for watching, and those are all great ideas! I'm of course still considering the Frontiers video, although I'm missing an "angle of entry" to talk about it. I want to have something interesting to say about Frontiers before I make that video.
I also thought about making a tierlist just this morning! But we'll see what I get up to next...
Appreciate the comment!
I remember playing the flash version a lot and after a while i bought the premium version, this had a 3rd Reinforcement, Skins (i loved the Star Wars ones), and a Lightning Bolt Spell. I think it might have been my first bought micro transaction even. I do not often buy micro transactions still, but i liked the things and loved the game. I played before heroes where a thing.
I later came across the frontiers flash version, but it did not play/work very well on the computer so i never got into that one or other Kingdom Rush games.
So interesting that thing with the Star Wars skins, I wonder how they were allowed to do that... probably didn't say "Star Wars" outright, but still.
Thanks for the comment!
@@Thee_Holland @Thee_Holland Oh i just found a wiki about it (just look for "kingdom Rush flash premium" and it will pop up somehwere, can't post the link because RUclips keeps removing the comment 😅)
There was also Street Fighter and Mortal Kombats, and you could choose a skin option.
I don't know about the licensing IP or if they just used it
@@Thee_Holland I just found that there is a wiki page about what the premium content was, it did also contain mortal kombat and street fighter skins, you could pick a skin option
I don't know how they did it with the IP, or if they just use the stuff
@@CatsLilaSalem Interesting, I should check that wiki page out
@@Thee_Holland I wanted to link it, and even with spaces RUclips removes the comment as a safety measure of course
In a point where you will reason that you should keep doing micro management to be more alert, busy and to level up your hero up to level 10 this is a good reason if you like the game to have ONE ROGUE LIKE ELEMENT! Rogue-Likes have this mechanic when you go to the next stage or replay again a stage to get a higher score or better performance every bonus, power-up or weapons or anything that you go will disappear and reset back to being weak. TO ME THIS IS AN OUT DATED GAME DESIGN FOR A TOWER DEFENSE IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A ROLE PLAYING GAME MECHANIC! It is more tedious to keep leveling up your hero in every stage. You want to be busy, play harder stages where there are swarms of enemies! Kingdom Rush starting in 2019 was updated by IronHide and it became harder. When selecting a difficulty they changed Hard to Veteran and this was the newest version and even the travel area on the map where you can place your hero changed a bit what I mean is its detection when clicking on the screen and the circle Icon of the rain of fire changed from a red cool looking crest to a broken lines of orange circle AHHHHGGGGH A BAD DESIGN DESICION! So No More hard only Casual, Normal and Veteran. All the previous strategies that I do is ineffective because of more enemies coming out. This way, your hero will always get busy. Not all heroes will reach level 10 in every stage you play YOU KNOW THIS! YOU REALLY LIKE THIS OUT DATED LEVELING MECHANIC? WHAT I WANT TO TELL IRONHIDE IS TO UPDATE KINGDOM RUSH BECAUSE THIS IS THEIR BEST GAME IN THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE TO UPDATE IT AND MAKE LEVELING PERMANENT BUT THIS TIME UP TO LEVEL 20 TO 30 AND GIVE THE GAME A NIGHTMARE MODE FOR HEROES THAT WILL REACH LEVEL 30! Heroes with their own skills, 2 more heroes, new expansions so yes MORE STAGES FOR US TO COLLECT UP TO 200 STARS THIS TIME AND 2 MORE ADDITIONAL TOWERS! 1 tower that shoots longer range than archer and mage and 1 more barracks that will house spear men and the extra militia that you land on the map from 2 make 3 three because originally this was 3 and add that lightning spell in the Flash Version! Next is also to give new updates and expansions to Frontiers and Origins! I want the leveling up TO BE PERMANENT, WELL SAID FROM MY SIDE! Grinding is necessary for leveling up if you y RPGs and Ironhide put 1 RPG mechanic in their game. In some stages, having a hero at level 10 makes it a lot easier but in farther and harder stages, the difficulty of the stage will still defeat your hero at level 10 if you do not micro and use a wrong strategy. For me your argument that Ironhide changed this in Frontiers that this is a bad game design is not a reasonable statement. Only a few here agreed with you because they do not like grinding! I will give one tip on how to level up faster on a separate comment! Kingdom Rush: Frontiers was awarded Best Game by Armor Games. To all the people here who reviewed Kingdom Rush, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO COMPLAINED ABOUT ITS LEVELING SYSTEM! Nothing more to talk about this short video!
If a "rogue-like" gameplay element to you is one that resets every level...
...then why aren't you complaining that all of your towers disappear at the start of each level?
Thanks for the comment anyway!
@@Thee_Holland
Dude your understanding of the mechanic of a rogue-like is wrong. YOUR ARGUMENT TO ME IS STUPID! Kingdom Rush is a strategic game. A Tower Defense game that is a sub-genre of RTS. Saying that you need to build again the towers when playing a new level is like saying, I WILL BUILD AGAIN MY BUILDINGS IN A RTS GAME! Dude this is a strategy game so you can do different strategies! Your reasoning is not a game mechanic of rogue-like!
@@awakenedsoul2638 Right, different strategies, like choosing a new hero and levelling them up throughout a level. I agree
@@Thee_Holland
YEAH RIGHT YOU UNDERSTAND NOW!
@@awakenedsoul2638 NICE!!
Back in my days in flash games version my reinforcement dresses up as STAR WARS characters
You're the like the fifth person who's pointed this out, and I *never knew* about this!
@@Thee_Holland and you my good sir have earned my subscription
@@Mr.DoTheGamer Oh I do very much appreciate it, Sir!
You bring up valid points
The old system makes it so that you can't just park your hero in one spot and ignore them for the majority of the level and makes early game interesting
Also the Regeneration system in the first game makes for sone dynamic gameplay as you wouldn't need to wait for too long before your hero is ready for combat unlike in the later games where unless you get healing abilities from towers or use a hero that has health Regen it sucks that when your hero is low HP they stay out of combat for a much longer time
But i prefer the new system because having a hero that stays at level 10 makes harder levels more easier (i also figured out a way to cheat the grinding so i don't have to waste time getting a hero up to level 10) and already having abilities unlocked is more desirable for me
Still you bought up a great point
Thanks a lot for engaging with my points even if you disagree in the end! I appreciate your comment a lot
Do you think the 2 hero system would synergies well with the kr1 leveling system?
Also great video, short but nice just trying to get something off your chest, hope Ironhide listens.
Hi Rafael,
That's a really superb question. I think this would be my answer: I've found that I don't really like the 2-hero system, because it's too hard for me to control properly on a keyboard. And I think adding KR1 leveling to that soup might be too much.
So although I appreciate Ironhide for trying out something new with the 2-hero system, I would encourage them to return to a 1-hero system (with KR1 leveling) in KR6.
Thanks a lot for the comment!
@@Thee_Holland i actually kinda like the 2 heroes system for how fun it is, but I hate the fact that it comes at the cost of sacrificing big spells, I get it it’s for balancing issues but it’s pretty much one of the main identities of kingdom rush.
In kingdom rush 6 I hope they brought the big spells back,and I’ll be alright if we have to sacrifice the 2 heroes systems for the return,but it would be nice if they found a way to add it with the 2 hero system.
@@rafaelsilaen9057 Fair points. We can definitely agree that big spells are fun! And that they should bring back more powerful spells in KR6
@@Thee_Holland also just a bit of a recommendation, do you think you could make a video about your thoughts about the new tower system (where we went from having four towers with two upgrade paths to five customizable towers)?
It’s alright if it’s takes a long time because you want to cover other games,like I said just a recommendation.
@@rafaelsilaen9057 Hey, that's a really neat recommendation, I actually like that a lot as an idea for a video. I might do that at some point!
Thanks for the idea
Honestly, the dumbest part about Hero levelling to me in general is that XP gain is reduced in Veteran and Impossible when it should be increased on those difficulties, if anything.
That all being said, seeing the old system return with KRA's 2-heroes approach (with heroes having as many skills as they do now) would be quite nice.
I would certainly prefer that over having to grind them on Casual difficulty and finding the most efficient levels for XP grinding over and over.
I agree with that one hundred percent, Taurmega. It really makes no sense that you get LESS experience on harder difficulties! (At least as long as EXP is permanent - maybe it would make sense if it wasn't, like in KR1).
Thanks for the comment!
It's not that much of a problem cause games have enough heroes to beat all the levels and still half of your heroes not having lvl 10
That's true, but it's not really my issue with the current system. I don't want to be forced to pick a weaker, level 1 hero, instead of a powerful level 10 hero when I could just do that
I agree honestly. In KR1, the early game always stayed interesting even with the most OP characters like Ignus due to you having to work for that power. It’s also funny that KR1 doesn’t have any dragons bending and snapping the balance in half as well. I love Frontiers more than 1, but they should have definitely kept the old system for sure.
Agreed! Not much else to say, you're on-point.
Thanks for the comment!
Algo parecido pero no específicamente esa mecánica vieja, a mí nunca me gustó, pero es verdad que en cierto momento al maxear a tu héroe y tropas las mecánicas de upgrade dejan de ser parte del juego
¡Así es! Gracias por el comentario amigo
I disagree. Having something to grind for in each level instead of focusing on building up my defenses is not ideal tower defense game design. The exact opposite of what you claimed. Making something grindy does not always mean good game design, newer hero leveling is much better in my opinion. Great video though.
Grindy would be the exact would I would use to describe the newer system, but to each their own!
Thanks a lot for the comment and for the kind words
Grindy?
Of anything's grindy it's levelling up a backlog of 5+ heroes after you've already beaten most stages, I don't want to wait an hour so I can make good use of my hero, I want to have that hero already able to reach his/her full potential
@@jraff2735 Good point, jraff!
Honestly, I agree. First kingdom rush is objectively the hardest in terms of defending (Frontiers has busted enemy units). Not only you have to manage gold, but you need to keep your hero active and alive. Hope that the 7th chapter of kingdom rush (yes, I do count legends as well) would have the same hero progression system as KR.
That's true as well, KR1 is definitely one of - if not THE - hardest Kingdom Rush game! And that might be due to the hero system, that's a good point.
I hope so too!
I wish they added a difficulty alongside Iron and Heroic where heroes started at level 1.
That's an interesting idea, although that would probably require that they could level up faster throughout the stage so you could actually get them to a pretty decent level by the end.
But neat idea.
Nice work!
Thanks, Morgan! And thanks a ton for watching my video once again
I LOVE THIS SYSTEM! WAY BETTER.
SO GLAD TO HEAR IT, MAN!
I totally agree with you.
Glad to hear it!
I agree
Glad to hear it, man!
Old is old new is new 😂
Something like that!
always thought that too. The kingdom rush 1 was the best
In terms of the leveling system, I'd have to agree
Niceeee video
Thankssss so much!
Aww yea man first KR was the best in heroes but new mechanic isn't that bad
Agreed! But it *is* still worse in my opinion
@@Thee_Holland +1
@@KuXINsKi I'm too old to know what that means, but I assume +1 is good
@@Thee_Holland ah it's just means im agree or something like that bro
@@KuXINsKi Hey thanks bro, that's good to know