Nintendo’s Lawyers Got What They Wanted
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- The Yuzu team have issued their response, mere days after Nintendo's first move.
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Considering that companies don't want us to own our games. I do not think piracy will go away. It's our only form of combating today's BS.
Or better, keep your old games/consoles, stop buying remakes/remasters of retro triple AAA games (including the Nintendo ones) and instead, start buying indie games and AA games.
@@keeganmcfarland7507you do know hardware dies right 😅
@@trippyvick059 God, I hope not.
@@keeganmcfarland7507 Hardware breaks down over time. My ps3 is long dead. My super nintendo games dont save anymore. n64 dead, etc.
Unless they price it at 18 euros, dollars or whatever. That is what a viewing costs, so renting / viewing a game that I do not own should cost about the same. It is, after all, a work of art..., how is it that I pay full price? Let's go by movie standards...
This is the reason why I have all versions of every emulator backed up. Whether it's for android or PC, Its always good to preserve them.
Other than that, keep your old games/consoles, stop buying remakes/remasters of retro triple AAA games (including the Nintendo ones) and instead, start buying indie games and AA games.
Also, should gamers (especially Japanese/Taiwanese/South Korean gamers) make/manufacturer their own pc gaming machine so that the small tech companies can beat the shit out of the big tech companies?
@@keeganmcfarland7507 consoles will burn out and become useless with time. emulate and diversify your storage options between physical hard drives and online back ups, best you can do.
@@keeganmcfarland7507 I have a strong suspicion that anyone saying "AA games" is going to break a PC if it tries to build one.
@KonglomeratYT AA games means games made by medium-sized studios.
Link
Nintendo killed a company - they didn't kill emulation let alone piracy.
well yer thats a give arresting one person isnt going to stop crime
What a strawman argument lmao
@@fargonthebraveNobody got arrested/punished for anything illegal. Nintendo just used their big bucks to bully a company out of existence.
@@fargonthebravethis settlement does nothing to challenge the existing precedent, and in fact only means that what we did know about the company's internal communications was likely the tip of the liability iceberg.
This also doesn't set any new legal precedent either, so any claims made in Nintendo's complaint are just words on paper, just as untested in court as they were before all this happened.
@@rundown132 You can't kill emulation or piracy. But good luck convincing others. Because this isn't the first time we've seen this shit happen thanks to greedy companies like Nintendo. Lmao.
This may be one of the most obvious examples of a letter being written under duress.
"i'm a filthy pirate arrrrrrr" said the yuzu developer totally without a nintendo zapper pointed to their head, of course.
@@someguy9175 ...They were though. They facilitated piracy and locked content behind their own Paywall. Hate Nintendo, but this is one of those situations where they were in the right.
@@Vaniity_Velvetit was sarcasm.
@@Vaniity_Velvetmmmm, boot leather yummy, amirite?
@@Vaniity_Velvet Holy, you trying to go for the world record for how deep someone can get a boot down their throat?
Neither side wants a trial. Nintendo shut down Yuzu for actively promoting pirated software before the game came out and even having a paywall.
Citra is where most people think Nintendo is overstepping their bounds, but that's explained easily by the knowledge that the Citra devs were also the Yuzu devs. The Yuzu devs were told they could not develop emulators anymore or distribute them.
Ryujinx still exists and was not targeted. The situation is more nuanced than people are making it out to be.
This. Both sides would end up taking a legal beating at trial. Nintendo would be forced to admit that emulation and modding is NOT illegal, and Yuzu would be forced to admit under penalty of perjury that they not only broke their previous agreement, but facilitated theft and piracy.
True, still don't like the results of this , but emulations shouldn't be behind paywalls. Reminds me of the Pokemon mod situation for Palworld now...
Correct.
i want that.
for 30+ years i've wanted that.
if nintendo ever does lose one lawsuit it will force not just them BUT ALL game company's to realize modding and emulation isn't illegal.
which will change the gaming market forever.
so far nintendo has been lucky nobody has had the time and money to fight them, but its only a matter of time until they slip up with how lawsuit happy they are.
its risky because if the emulator dev loses then it will change emulation forever.
but honestly im down for it, its time to fight this battle, they are at their weakest now with how badly sales are going, and winning while they are down means we never have to deal with this bs again.
@@sodasaintcommentaries4054
they've taken so many emulators from us im ready to Square up, and tango.
Tbf Yuzu fucked up, putting patches and fixes of then unreleased games behind patreon paywall, that's where Nintendo really got them.
They did not, early versions of Yuzu were behind a paywall but there was no version which prioritized or advertised itself as 'better' for TOTK, that was specifically mods and outside patches people made for the emulator.
Imho they never should have put anything even like that behind a paywall when the existence of yuzu was questionable to begin with. Just put everything on github like a normal person.
@@powerfist1340 the fact that they were profiting off of Nintendo's intellectual property AT ALL is a problem
@@dragonriderabens9761 so.. people that make content for dungeons and dragons deserve to be hit with a lawsuit from hasbro? someone tell critikal role
@@jishani1 thats not the same wizard of the coast let people use their ip however they want
I’m more upset about killing off Citra. Kid Icarus Uprising has many fingerprints all over the two most recent Smash Bros games and Nintendo has admitted that it’s too difficult to remake. Fire Emblem Awakening saved the franchise. Those are just two games people aren’t going to be able to emulate for the time being.
That's absurd and terrifying!🥶
Other than that, keep your old games/consoles, stop buying remakes/remasters of retro triple AAA games (including the Nintendo ones) and instead, start buying indie games and AA games.
Citra MMJ's repo is still up with downloadable APKs, it is a fork of Citra and is the better version anyways.
You can just find a 2103 build and download it from other sources. Once done, create copy back ups of it. Works just fine this way
@@keeganmcfarland7507 I will not stop buying remakes/remasters.
@@a1pha_star some people just never learn, and you're part of the problem lol
i love how they go after emulators but they will charge $65ish for supposal something you don't even own, in essence you are renting the game for $65 for life but they have the option to just delete it if they so choose.
After 10 years rental is over anyway, Big N dont want to pay for servers no more. Everyone get out. Thanks for the money though, suckers.
@@imperialcitizen4811 yep
When has this happened? The closest Nintendo came to doing something like this is when they shut down the 3DS and Wii shops but that wasn't them deleting your files, that was them removing a product from shelves. Why is it that the people who are so adamant about their righteousness in fighting le big corpos are always bending facts to better fit their narrative? Once you download a digital game, it becomes a physical copy. Nintendo can not and has not and likely will not go into your SD card and delete your files.
@@GetterRay"At 4pm PDT on April 8, 2024, online play and other functionality that uses online communication will end for Nintendo 3DS* and Wii U software. This also includes online co-operative play, internet rankings, and data distribution." Your digital game that requires online functionality,just became a digital coaster.
And their emulation is worse than the publicly available ones.
Nintendo is so weird. They take down channels that provide Nintendo music for fans, but don't offer any way to listen to it legally. They take down Yuzu, but provide no way to legally mod your games. In so many ways, they are so incredibly out of touch with reality, it's actually insane.
And I don't believe the "million pirated copies of TotK" for a second. I myself downloaded one to play a modded version, but I had already bought and played the legal version beforehand. I'm sure I count as one of those "pirated copies", as do many others who have good reasons or shouldn't count. The only way to get a "legal copy" of your Nintendo games is... to hack your console, which is also illegal and can get you in trouble if it is detected on your console. So dumb.
Hacking your own console is not illegal, but Nintendo will claim it is.
I think you misunderstood. The million copies were downloaded before the games release. The game leaked like 2 weeks early, and was quickly uploaded, and played on Yuzu. That number is entirely believable, for those interested in getting their hands on an major unreleased title. If anything, that number feels conservative.
That number isn't how many didn't buy the game two weeks later when it was released, or how many downloaded it after the release. And that isn't the claim, it was that a million people downloaded the game early and, since they couldn't have bought it yet, easily proves a million people had the game without a license (aka pirated). That is the point they were trying to prove. They don't need to prove that they didn't buy the game afterwards, because legally that is irrelevant.
I don't support Nintendo's actions in general around emulation, but yeah none of that sounds like it is inaccurate.
@@SolidSt8Dj Depends. Hacking a Konsole itself isnt Illegal, if you plan to use it for pirated software afterwards it is. As ruled by the European Court of Law.
@TheRozenKnight Other than that, keep your old games/consoles, stop buying remakes/remasters of retro triple AAA games (including the Nintendo ones) and instead, start buying indie games and AA games.
You are also failing to take into account that Nintendo is Japanese company, with different ideas of how IP works.
I'm hoping we can torrent these emulation programs until new emulators take their place.
Yuzu always had competitors
FitGirl has games + Yuzu
@@doommaker4000Ryujinx
Ryukinx still exists and wasn't shut down.
Ryujinx for switch and DeSmuMe and others exist for 3ds. Citra was sadly the best option though with how well you cab resize the top and bottom windows.
A tale of pirates getting too greedy. They obviously went far beyond the "'morally justified" emulator reasoning.
to be fair what got them was pay walling access to a tears of the kingdom support when the only version of the game was the leak. so while yes nintendo bad yuzu fucked around and found out, this is the most predictable case of nintendo being lawsuit happy ive seen yet.
Piracy is always necessary, so whatever. XD
Says someone who's never contributed to anything and just wants to leech off the world
@@IncognitoActivadojust don’t paywall it. Yuzu got greedy.
Access to early/unstable builds with Patreon is a common practice. They didn't actually paywall a new Nintendo game. If you would want to play it, you could use the Switch. Or you could wait for a new *stable* release of the emulator and play it on your personal beef system of choice. Emulator devs didn't paywall you from playing it, only from using an unstable version of their software.
Typically, you would prefer to use a stable build of any software you're using to avoid encountering issues, except for possibly builds that are nearing the stable release and the new features are important enough to require the newest version.
@@Evil_Pasta you couldn't use a switch though. it wasn't available on the Switch when Yuzu started making money off of it
that's the whole point
I feel like yuzu might have had a better chance to fight the lawsuit if they had a blacklist for titles not yet released. The most "legit" way to do emulation is to buy the console, buy the game, and dump it all yourself. TotK was leaked over a week before release, and the vast majority of videos, tweets, posts of people playing it were on yuzu... you can't have dumped it yourself when the game isn't released yet, so these are _almost_ guaranteed to be instances of piracy.
Legally speaking, the *ONLY* "legit" way to do emulation is dump everything yourself. As soon as you download a copy of a ROM or things like the decryption keys, you have fallen outside the bounds of legality. Making a copy of a piece of software is only allowed when *you* make an archival copy for *your own* purposes. As soon as you start distributing that copy, it is no longer an archival copy. The decryption keys themselves might not even fall under the same legal standings, as they could conceivably be completely within the "circumventing protection measures" clauses.
there biggest problem was probably because they were making money from patreon there lots of emulators out there but most dont get shut down there is also always more to a story then we know its really hard to say end of the day it could of been Nintendo doing what do or yuzu really could of done something that did brake the law i spos we will never know.
@@AeriFyrein stfu...downloading any file isn't illegal which is why they went after the emulator
@@cavemantero Right. Tell that to dozens of lawsuit precedence on file sharing by the music/movie industry.
Downloading stuff can *absolutely* be illegal. These companies just know they aren't going to get anything out of trying to sue every Tom, Dick, and Harry that downloads a ROM.
Maybe try *not* to show your ignorance before you reply to RUclips comments.
@@cavemantero There are a lot of files that if you download them and the feds find out, you're ass is looking at least 5-10 years in prison and name put on a registry. So, I'd use your words more carefully.
Takeaway is:
Don't paywall your shit!
Don't allow people to play games before release date!
They were asking for it and got it.
@jamespasqualone-mcmullen8226I love how people are all about "oh yes I'm they are killing game preservation, fuck company" and then go "hehe I just pirate the shit and play it before it even release and write on twitter about it"
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
@jamespasqualone-mcmullen8226the citra devs are also the yuzu devs who had already gotten slapped in court and told they can’t make emulators. Citra, even without Nintendo getting involved, we’re breaking the law
@@SilverRingss Emulation is not illegal but decrypting the software with the decryption keys is a violation of copyright laws. My understanding with Citra is Citra doesn't use decryption keys and requires you to decrypt the games with something else before you can put it into Citra. So technically speaking, Citra wasn't violating any laws and got struck down because the Yuzu devs also make Citra.
Side note to consider as well: Nintendo shut down the 3DS e-shop and afaik, most of the games from said 3DS e-shop were not ported over to the Switch or made accessible on the Switch. Nintendo doesn't produce new copies of said 3DS games either.
That falls under the term of "abandonware" and abandonware is considered "up for grabs" (no one's tried to test that out legally in full with video games but I don't think Nintendo wants to force that issue into court or else they might run into some significant problems there too). Piracy isn't right but I'm a lot less hostile towards "piracy" of abandonware than I am of games that are in active circulation right now (i.e. pirating Switch games is bad outright but I personally wouldn't yell at someone for "pirating" a Gameboy game if it's not accessible on the Switch).
Indeed!
1. It wasn't paywalled, that is a bald-faced lie and you know it.
2. How, pray tell, could Yuzu have prevented people from using the emulator to play a leaked game?
Boot leather yummy, amirite?
Citra is the real sad loss here because it easily the best 3DS Emulator. I've always had better luck with Ryujinx on most games with few exceptions and ryujinx handles game mods better. Fuck Nintendo and I sure hope someone picks up where Yuzu left off and forks the project unofficially.
It's already mirrored and forked on thousands of public repositories. It won't die.
The sad part is that Citra did nothing wrong and only got taken down because it's legally tied to Yuzu as a company. Blame the Yuzu team for their lack of foresight.
Nintendo's argument is patently insane, and if they actually won in court regarding Yuzu being used for piracy, this means that any piece of tech whatsoever could be liable if SOMEONE out there is capable of using it in order to commit piracy. Perhaps it's a small mercy that Yuzu actually folded instead of being taken to court, because if they somehow lost (which is possible, most court cases are a question of money, not legality), it could have spelled the demise of any manner of ownership we have over our own products.
I'm never buying a Nintendo product again.
They paywalled the build to play TOTK, so good riddance.
Piracy is a good thing but people shouldn't be emulating current hardware. I 100% don't blame Nintendo for not wanting people to pirate their new games and I agree. HOWEVER What angers me is they also shut down the 3ds emulator. If you cannot buy the game, you should be able to pirate them. Preservation is important and I don't trust anyone except the pirates with that.
people have no problem supporting devs.
what we have a problem with is that we can't play our favorite old games and that companies refuse to keep selling them.
the only way to play games like db fusions, bravely default, dissidia 012 and any other game now is with piracy.
because the company's refuse to sell them.
you'd still have pirates even if you did sell them, for sure BUT you'd have alot less if you preserved your games.
That's the problem with copyright. It gives the owner the ability to leave it in a shed and rust away. A pity yes, but bear in mind that's how the law is. (Before you say anything, it was Hollywood and other companies that screwed it up. WB, Paramount and the like are just as guilty as Disney)
There is a difference between emulating old games and releasing emulated copies of a game before its release date.
Piracy is one thing. Emulation of unacquireable games is one thing.
But downloading a game before it even released? Just because Nintendo is a billion dollar company doesn't make it right. This only happened because emulators and its user base stopped being ethical. You can't cite "game archival" when you're downloading a game BEFORE IT RELEASED.
There are no good guys in this story.
An entertainment corporation will never be able to threaten people into giving it money.
I honestly can't remember the last time I bought any nintendo product...
I bought a Nintendo DS when it was on its way out and barely played it. I'm ok missing out on N games these days. They're typically just rehashes of the same IPs they've been milking for decades.
@@jeffcxx hmm...
Probably one of the party games with the family at some point.
30 years playing games, never gave nintendo a cent, but mostly out of their own stupidity, I would buy a bunch of their games and even things like joysticks if they had PC support.
A lot of people are missing the point entirely, Having a Patreon to fund an emulator for a console still on the market was a really bad idea. If you're gonna do this stuff, you do it for free!
Nathaniel bandy himself mentioned that on Twitter when he noticed the situation
Citra was the only causality here and as much as people want to bang the "Fuck Corpos!" Drum, I think it's important to note Yuza absolutely fucked up here big time. Every thing they did was some degree of a bad idea. The fact that the hardware they reversed engineered was still in active development put them in dangerous waters for Facilitation add on everything else they were doing, and like Icarus they flew too close to the Sun. Their Greed and Hubris doomed them.
But, Citra was shut down because it was made by the same company and that company legally can no longer make Emulators. So again, if people want to be upset, be upset at the Yuza team. Not Nintendo. They had every right and are legally obligated (They are a publicly traded company on the Japanese Stock Exchange) to defend their IP from blatant theft.
There is a very real reason Emulators and Game Dumpers only target older hardware and games that are years removed from Circulation, because anything else is just theft and no one is going to get sued because you're too cheap to buy a game you claim to hate.
Totally agree well said 🙌
If nintendo realased pc ports for thier games, piracy would drop like a lead balloon.
"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable." - Gabe Newell
shit like this is one of the many reasons I stopped playing Nintendo games
do you have a job?
A company protecting their IP has got you that mad, huh? You're nothing more than another entitled gamer.
@@BenFoster-cx4em what does that have anything to do with anything they just said? even if they have a job the message is still the same of "this is why i don't spend my money on this company"
@@BenFoster-cx4em Cringe.
@@DaiPai1777 because if you had a job, you'd understand why Nintendo stopping a thing that allowed people to download a game, before it even released, is fine.
This is why games need to be protected as art.
They are, it's called "copyright"
Least, that's how copyright is _supposed_ to work.
@@mattwo7 Lmao, yeah nawh.
Copyright is there to protect capitalist profits and it's very anti-consumer.
@@kristoffer3000What part of "that's how copyright is _supposed_ to work" did you not understand?
@@jeffcxx As a side effect, yeah.
@@kristoffer3000cringe. Give your art away for free if you're so against capitalists.
Most modern piracy only appears when a wanted product is artificially scarce, and game preservation is important to a segment of history, two things Big N clearly doesn't understand still.
Yuzu shouldn't have done the paywall thing, but losing the emulator is still a big detriment to preservation.
Also, the big stick isn't scaring the actual pirates, just the citizens who actually like Nintendo and their games...
To quote Gabe Newell of Valve: "Piracy stems from a service issue." If most of the old games I love from the DS era when I was a kid (i.e. the Digimon DS games) were accessible on the Switch or via some other official means, I'd pay for it. Unfortunately, they are not and no company seems to care enough to make them accessible, hence why pirating occurs for older games.
Side note: If Nintendo were to ever go after Dolphin or some other emulator for much older consoles like the Gameboy and said group behind it was willing to take Nintendo to court over it, I'd love for one of the arguments to be presented to a judge be to point out that many older games made by Nintendo are spectacular examples of Nintendo making a video game product and never porting it to a newer console to be accessible.
That might end up bringing in potential IP enforcement issues and a very valuable argument about "abandonware" and whether "pirating" games that are no longer actively being sold/made by the company that produced it is really something that presents a "threat" to said companies.
I doubt Nintendo would really want any of those types of issues brought up in court, especially in a Japanese court on the potential IP enforcement issues but it's certainly something interesting to think about.
@@Doomweapon66True
Me and a buddy where talking about this issue and came up with a really interesting idea. Why doesn't Nintendo release USB PC device that has a slot for Switch games. Sell it for like $150 and it comes with a controller. With this device release a true full Switch emulator including its marketplace and retro game libraries. Then they can appease people that want better hardware for their games, and Nintendo could start selling to PC gamers on their own market.
They could sell it at almost the same price as the full console, and even barely optimize it and they'd make bank on such a product.
Companies have made it clear they have 0 intension of letting us own physical copies and preserving their own games.
Except all major Switch releases get physical copies (in fact its still the main part of their business), and you can go to a store right now and get them?
@@IHeart16Bit What about their old games they don't preserve? Forgot about those, didn't ya?
@@LaZd- Collectors and used game stores are a thing there is NO obligation for a company to make and keep OLD stock of decades old merchandise on the off chance someone wants to buy a copy, u want the stuff from the NES/SNES era's then go find them
10:30 absolutely nintendo themselves use emulators! Super mario 3D Allstars when it first released had a common emulator mistake where it shows the paths that platforms are going to go to with incomplete grey and white textures. This was seen when the game was first launched and jt didn’t disappear until they later patched it in the same patch they added Gamecube controller support for Super Mario Sunshine
Most ports run on emulators. Hell, the Xbox Series carry over emulators for prior gens and PS5 has a PS4 emulator integrated.
@@shis1988 so why pay a premium for an experience you can get for free from fans? These companies have more than enough money to provide a superior experience but choose to deliver mediocrity and then try to charge $60
RIP Citra & Yuzu 😢
I keep backups of the download files for emulators in case well..this
The internet won, dude; chill out. :)
I have backups too. Always keep backups of your files guys.
YO HO! ALL HANDS! HOIST THE COLORS HIGH! HEAVE HO! THIEVES AND BEGGARS NEVER SHALL WE DIE!
Yuzu kinda wanted that to happen by having patreon and patreon yuzu versions, most of the time money is like a neon sign for corpos, also if big N dont want the games to leak they should look at people they give review copies and warhouses that have they games before release. To leak the game someone needs to have it. I use Yuzu and Citra it sad to see them gone, atleast in their current form.
They were profiting from it via patreon, the fuck did they expect?
I'm in favour of paying for games on legal platforms. TOTK was amazing, while yes I do acknowledge the performance issues, it was still worth the 70€ imo.
That being said, I do also think that emulating games and in particular older games is totally fine, even more so if you want to play an older game that's otherwise unavailable.
Ah yes, another good reason why I don't buy Nintendo products.
Well stated sir.
You don't buy Nintendo products because they protect their IP? Nice way of outing yourself as another entitled gamer.
You don’t buy Nintendo because they won’t let you have it for free? This makes no sense. 😂
@@rphntw1n No, because nintindo no longer supports a vast majority of their catalog, and gets pissy when people start messing with what is literally a dead product that Nintendo is making 0 money on. It would be like if Disney quit selling Cinderella and then got pissed that people were selling copies of the dvd to other people. It's f***ing stupid
@@goldenhate6649the switch is still current, I have no problem with them protecting their ip while it's current.
3ds should be fair game at this point
i was totally one of the people playing tears of the kingdom on yuzu before it's launch, lol. and honestly, the pirating community will keep the final version of yuzu propagating throughout the internet. i won't really be gone.
Got Citra on my NAS, will seed.
Same goes for Sony. Both Sony and Nintendo makes no effort what so ever to make their classics playable on new consoles.
I have plenty of PS1 games and a large gallery of PS2/PS3 games(on discs) glad my ps3 can play most of the ps1/ps2 titles.
But ps4/ps5 don't have that option.
Think even one sony dev once said why play old games when you have new..
They don't understand that old generation had so many classics that is not playable today...
They insist of porting new games to infinity different versions and remasters of modern games but refuse to let us play our classics.
If they settled for that much, it meant they made at least that much during the lifespan of their patreon.
My family has owned Nintendo systems since the release of the DS but we didn't jailbreak my youngest's 3DS or the family's Wii until Nintendo shutdown their online stores. We haven't done anything with them, but we wanted to keep our options open going forward.
I will never understand why developers of these emulators refuse to learn to distribute their work via peer to peer networks or BT.
How to keep the old property of discontinued Nintendo products? Stop buying their recent stuff until they know that consumers and collectors are the king.
Pirating Nintendo games is always morally correct.
@@IncognitoActivadoNice phrase sheep.
@@Toonrick12 *A fool and his wallet are easily separated.*
😉
yes but people are all talk look at pokemon people hated on sword and shield so much yet most sold pokemon game of all time no different form the new ones people will always talk the talk online but as soon as the game drops they will buy it and this goes for all consoles.
@@fargonthebrave SECOND most sold*. But yes.
I didn't mind the games too much but the series really needs more time to be worked on.
Nintendo is so out of touch with what people want, it's insane. always shooting themselves in the leg.
Strangely, I really don't think so. They continue to sell ridiculously massive amounts of copies, no matter the quality or lack thereof. If people didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it, yet there's preorders to the ceiling and millions upon millions sold every time we get zelda 38 and pokemon 24A and 24B and so on.
Whatever the people want, it's not a big enough or wide enough want for it to be profitable to do.
sadly, in the end, the market is seeming to say pretty clearly: they ARE happy with what they got and would like some more, please. the people who don't want this are in a very small minority.
No, they know exactly what they are doing is wrong and they wanna abuse the shit out of their customers.
Tbh, I can see why a decryption code that specifically targets Nintendo games would be the easiest way for a lawyer to present this as piracy. I had always assumed this was an emulator that just used pirated materials of someone else’s doing. But having a paywall to access the decryption code for specific Nintendo games? Yeah that’s trying to profit off of Nintendo’s IP.
having both a Switch and Steam Deck, the Deck is a much better console hands down, emulation aside, being able to play my games on the go at pretty standard settingd, higher if older, at a good framerate, and being able to mod the console to be whatever I want or need to it to be is such an advantage over being only able to play first party games on a system thst struggles to keep up with its newest releases if their scope is grand, but also has no real personalization that previous portable consoles did, not to mention Valvw specifically made the Deck to be easily fixable by the customer should need arise, or even moddable to an extent, whereas Nintendo would frowns upon anyone who even takes their Joycon apart when they got stick drift and would rather pay $20 to fix it themselves and not a whole $70 for a new controller. Another thing I personally like about the Deck is that it's much bulkier, and feels less likely to break or snap whereas the Switch I feel scared to play it else the Joycon rails might snap off over time.
the performance is purely due to age
@@beanman853 Switch was already running on old chips since release.
30k a month for their Yuzu Patreon.
If you ask me that's the entire reason this even started
Nah, it was more that emulator builds were paywalled.
The TOTK build was added and paywalled around the time the game leaked. This is the one that Nintendo caught.
I don't oppose emulation at all because I've used it and it's how I can revisit games that can never return, so yup. And you should never paywall emulators nor roms. Ever.
This is one of the few times where I feel Nintendo was in the right cause not only was Yuzu's team locking ToTK emulation behind a paywall via Patreon, but also potentially Yuzu was recording people's personal data without their consent or even knowing
And wasn’t ToTK emulation started a WEEK before the game came out anywhere? They were asking for that loss right there.
I think the argument "I wouldn't have bought it and played it on the switch but I would illegaly download and play it on yuzu" is kinda stupid.
It's like saying "I wouldn't have gone to the concert unless I sneaked in".
You are only doing damage and don't provide any benifit to the creator, why would they tolerate it?
In the end even if you personally wouldn't have bought it, you being part of popularising this illegal method will inevitably make them lose a possible customer.
During the early 2000s people at my school were making fun of others who bought their music instead of illegaly download it, that's how damaging illegal downloads can be.
Totally agree, so much vapid praising of piracy as if they are heroes in these comments
Geez it is almost like pirating a current gen console is a bad thing, who would have guessed.
Nintendo has shown everyone that they are a greedy and evil company. I will never buy another Nintendo product again.
You are absolutely going to buy multiple more Nintendo products.
🤦♂️
Cry and morally grandstand some more.... Fact of the matter is, it's easy to get the .prod and .title keys by nefarious" means, and switch games online. Nintendo is doing what is in the interest of the company to the T. You can still use Ryujinx, Emulation will never die, but it always has setbacks, especially when it's emulating commercially available games at the moment.
If this is what makes you stop buying Nintendo, then you don't know your video game history. They were brutal in the 80s and early 90s. If you were gonna stop buying them for ethical reasons, you should have stopped a long time ago.
Nintendo games aren’t that good anyway, you won’t be missing anything.
Hm i considered bying a Switch 2 but thats Off the Charts No.
I'm never giving Nintendo a single cent.
Something tells me you weren't to begin with.
Good for you, unfortunately a lot of delusional Nintendo fanboys do spend their money on Nintendo whether they agree with Nintendo or not.
@@SiranoxzActually paying for games makes us fanboys?
Fool, sit down somewhere.
Yah, im so delusional enjoying the hell out of TOTK for the last month and a half. If we all boycotted companies doing crappy things we wouldn’t have anything.
I'm buying two copies next time to make up for this post.
I still think gaming media should have the same rules as some patents; Copywrite expires after a set amount of time. At a certain point, video games get into the same realm as books. They are valuable as historic record. They reprint books all the time, to allow newer generations to read century old books. The same thing should apply to games that are 30-40 years old. We should have access to those games, buy whatever means is available. Now, publishers can re-release updated version (like remasters, as they did with the SNES Final Fantasy series), but the originally coded games, should be "public domain". Heck, the Mickey Mouse character is about to become public domain this year, for this exact reason.
Thanks for the updates!
Ethically you should wait about 3 or 4 years after consoles life cycle before trying to emulate it...
That may have made more sense back in the day of 16-bit consoles, but with anything Xbox 360 and later, you need to understand that you'll likely spend 3 years just trying to get the emulator to get to a game's main menu without crashing. If someone wanted to make a PS5 or Xbox Series emulator, it would actually be wisest to start right now.
@@kaijuultimax9407 Well, on the other hand, consoles from the eighth generation onwards have very few differences in terms of hardware compared to a PC, as building your own CPU/GPU architecture has become an obsolete method. So I don't think we will have as many difficulties as we had with the PS3 and its Cell, for example. Since consoles these days are basically mini-PCs (or ARM tablets in the case of the Switch), it will be less about trying the hardware and more about replicating the OS.
I don't know you. I don't care about your ethics.
Since that's a Zoomer principle, luckily anyone favored by Natural selection can respond this: No.
@@kaijuultimax9407 you can start making 1 now just don't make it public and make it a "rival" to the current gen.
Nintendo the only company that can actively go after its own community.. and still get them to fork over cash for every game and console.
thieves are not nintendo's own community. I swear leftie neets are so detached from reality.
You're not familiar with Bethesda, are you?
@@sonjaR2 referring to space game?
@@Mix_xtspace game, fall out 76, eso, wolfenstain...
You forgot about Sony?
Companies: You have to buy a new console that will be obsolete in 1 year, any game you buy for your current console you will lose all progress for andnot be able to play on the next console, the games for next console will be a considerably worse product that will have triple the price tag, and we can remove the game from your library at any time without giving you a refund.
And they wonder why piracy is so popular nowadays.
Nintendo could start releasing their games on PC as well, then there would be a lot less people wanting to emulate them.
Bingo
Except you forgot one thing... Bowser wants all of your coins...
Doug has no intention to share...
Gee, facilitating profit from stolen software might get you sued, who saw that one coming!?
Emulation and modding is one thing (which no matter what Nintendo claims, it is NOT illegal), but Yuzu didn't just offer ToTK downloads before the official release (which is theft, period), they paywalled it too. They did this to themselves.
I don’t get why this is even news. They had to know that this was going to happen eventually.
because shitting on Nintendo with copyright gets clicks, even if Yuzu was in the wrong here
It's very interesting how legally they can just over power you with money...
Capitalism goes brrrr
As long as the console maker and Devs get their money, i don't care what compromise they could reach to do whatever you want with your game. Piracy isnt about just getting a fre game, skimming money from devs...it directly can hurt the next game from the Dev or cause devs to be laid off.
Hobbies cost money sometimes. Be ready to pay the price or find another hobby. It would be cool to have some set up where you buy the game and you're now allowed to play it anyway you want...on Switch, Steam Deck emulator...whatever.
Exactly, beautifully said, it isn’t some harmlessly protest action of skimming a few bucks from a giant corporation, it’s damaging the developers of the very thing that they obviously want to play because they are pirating it and making future quality game releases from that dev less possible. well said if they are fine with it, be fine with getting a new hobby
Well yeah, Nintendo could always try to offer a competent way for people to run their games on something that is not ancient semi-custom mobile technology, or they can sue. Thus, they will obviously sue every time. Shame, such a shame.
there's plenty of lawyers here Bellular...
Nintendo should just allow their community to mod their games. >_>
Why? None of the other consoles allow it outside of something like Fallout/Skyrim.
Well, its illegal to mod games in Japan in general, so its not ust a Nintendo thing
Yes, that true.
@@IHeart16Bit The Nintendrones. XD
@@isakwolff5491 I don't care about japan. XD
theyre lucky it wasnt more money
Crazy thinking going back to Gaben's statement of how to deal with piracy being delivering a better service, what if Nintendo sold their own Switch Emulator's as well as allowed purchasing games for said switch emulator much like how steam is a thing. Makes you think how much money they could print that way.
Hm I would like to feel bad for this company and agree with the anti-Nintendo/anti-corporate idea, but unfortunately it seems I don't. I disagree that the 1 million downloads of Tears of the Kingdom is harmless - perhaps you're right that some portion of people already bought the game and just also bought it on PC, but don't see how that can possibly be proven/known, it's entirely under the category of "perhaps". Let's say I could speak from personal experience about downloading allegedly a bunch of 3DS games, Fire Emblem Awakening and other Fire Emblem games, and never paying a cent for them nor intended to, and that was dead WRONG. One shouldn't have been able to/it was immoral that it did allegedly happen, and the only thing that enabled it was the existence of emulators like Citra. It definitely meant a lost sale for Nintendo, or at least a lost used game sale. So that definitely exists as a scenario. I don't think it's crazy to think that 50% or more of those 1 million TotK were lost sales, which say 500k x $50ish buck a game = $25million, which is significant especially considering cancerous gacha games like Hoyoverse make that much money daily and so the more they make and the less traditional games companies make, the further our industry goes towards that gacha trend
Unfortunately I think we need to mainly take into account what in actuality/what facts or data show is happening, vs what "perhaps" or theoretically could happen, when it comes to various legal issues. Perhaps/theoretically people could have just used Citra/Yuzu to back up their games and play them in higher framerate, yet in reality/facts of internet download date, actually hundreds of thousands simply used them to pirate the games. Perhaps/theoretically automatic assault rifles could be used only to gun down deer and bears in the wilderness, yet in reality they are used over and over to commit mass shootings in the US. Etc. So out of those two, the reality-based data needs to be prioritized when making a legal decision to allow something.
Remember guys. Buy physical media.
You gonna cover Sweet Baby Inc though?
"Nintendo is a scam. DO NOT BUY A SWITCH." - lunathemagikarp "Nemu" 2019
It is an ongoing struggle in the music, movie, TV and games industry between the consumers and the owners.
The consumers want to chose where and when they enjoy the media, many of the media owners don't want this.
Pretty funny, I spend an afternoon getting my Switch info and games and saves to the PC....and I couldn't get Yuzu to work, but Ryujinx did. Wound up sticking with that one. Got Yuzu to work on a Legion Go right when it died... :(
There's even a Raspberry Pi you can buy with games on.
Normally i dont support nintendo. But Yuzu openly bragged about Pirating and offering Leaked games early on their discord. So thats kinda justified.
Can we please stop pretending like Citra are innocent victims? The same devs are the ones from Yuzu. They paywalled things and features with their emulators that were always free previously with others and were willing to sabotage the entire emulator scene for a buck. On top of that those Yuzu devs in Citra were ordered never to make emulation again so they shouldn’t have even been in this situation to begin with because they shouldn’t have been making emulators. Yes, I get it. CoRpO bAd. But at some point you have to accept that these group did it to themselves.
People seem to be misinterpreting this video, i doubt Mike is saying “piracy is awesome, let’s all go burn corpo shit”. he’s observing a more nuanced point that piracy may be a regrettable but predictable consequence of having games limited to a specific platform with outdated hardware when computers and software exist that can run the same games smoother, but without legal permission from the IP holder of course. So this point is not condoning piracy. Bellular is a games company thus probably not in favor of pirating games
Emulation is fine, Yuzu devs just thought they were slick and started to shamelessly profit off it which is the major difference and the reason why they got taken down while no other emulator in the last 30 years got taken down. Done in by their own greed.
5:06 okay the game didn't run incredibly on native hardware, that can't be argued against. But it ran.... well enough? You're also allowed to not buy something if you don't like how it performs and play something else. "I want this thing but better" isn't a justification for pirating their current flagship. Its an excuse. And no, buying the game and emulating it doesn't excuse it either because they make margins on the hardware too.
Im not dumb, i know people like Bellular will own a Switch already making it perfectly fine technically. But my god are we actually pretending thats the case for more than 95% of the people that were playing it on Yuzu? Really? Were this an emulator for a system and games that weren't currently available on store shelves i think everyone would be in the right to be mad about this. But the Switch is their current system. And Yuzu were profiting significantly from piracy of it, very very barely indirectly.
I'd honestly respect people more in comment sections like this if they just admitted they want free shit. I'd even understand the piracy if it was someone who can't really afford to play games any other way. But i also wouldn't expect Nintendo to let it be easy to do so.
And the funny part is .... Nintendo still won't realize they could get more sales of their games if they simply offered them on PC
*(Obviously not a lawyer)* It deserves to be said now and always- piracy is a service problem. Nintendo has no obligation to expressly provide a better service... but as a consequence piracy is far more likely as they're giving poor service to something highly desirable. Unfortunately because Japanese law is an absolute joke when it comes to the defendant and IP law over there does not acknowledge any form of fair use, they're operating without many of those protections we abroad observe existing in mind in the first place, and the conviction rate of the defendant in Japanese court in general I understand to be absurdly high, something like 97%. They filed here though. So ultimately, this is Nintendo doing what their lawyers tell them they can by US law. Ultimately here both sides look quite bad in an actual drawn out court affair so Nintendo's bet was settlement and C&D as always. It's easy to say this precedent can't change anything but any lawyer could tell you- when you cite in order to make precedent you always cite other cases, specific ones. The more these settle, the harder it is for Nintendo to say they actually protected their copyright- they're giving some young buck lawyer in the future more and more ammo to point at over time, so they also have to be quite careful about this. So really what this is doing if anything is forcing their hand in future matters as they have for some time now knowing that neither side could truly be argued in good faith. My two cents, but I've heard multiple copyright law channels over the years back up such sentiments so I'll take it on somewhat decent authority that's how things might actuality work on this.
Hopefully someone separates these points brought up by Nintendo’s lawsuit. If multiple websites are involved in the decryption, guide and distribution then it would be harder to sue? Good luck to someone
Nintendo should sue people on ebay making bank off their products. People are legit selling their games 10 times over market value which is far worse than piracy.
If the "breaking the encryption" part is what got them in the most trouble, could the emulators just use use a non-encrypted format for the files?
Like, you dump the game from the switch, and it dumps a different unencrypted file format that the emulator can use without keys?
Doing this would likely fall under other laws that would make it illegal. Completely bypassing the encryption protection altogether like this would likely violate many of the "circumvention of copyright protection methods" laws. This would throw the emulators into the territory of being something that is *specifically* designed to overcome these types of protections, which isn't legally allowed.
It would also violate the laws that allow the "legal" creation of archival copies of software. Making a completely decrypted copy of the games would absolutely not be an "archival copy" in any sense, which means any of those copies would be strictly illegal. Anyone downloading/using those copies of games would thus 100% be pirating them - there would be no gray area where the user might actually have made an archival copy of their own games to use with an emulator.
@@AeriFyrein Can I just point out the irony in what you're saying with emulation? You're saying emulators not using decryption keys/using non-encrypted files for games is illegal (just for reference, by that logic PCSX2 is illegal because it attempts to get around the issue of MagicGate encryption system for PS2 memory cards by not directly replicating it). Using the decryption keys themselves is illegal. And in order to play most games on most emulators, they either need to be decrypted in some way or the emulator has to use code to read the file somehow.
Not trying to say you're wrong but it really feels like companies like Nintendo want to force emulation into the corner of "It's not illegal to have it but we're gonna make virtually every method to play those games via emulation illegal." Maybe I'm just a "normie" when it comes to emulation but that's what it feels like to me.
@@Doomweapon66 There is a difference between using the decryption keys in a reverse-engineered piece of software in order for it to function like the original system, and to completely remove the decryption so it doesn't even need to be used whatsoever. It's a small technical difference, but it exists, and it's one of the things that separates emulators being legal under the law from the given example in the original comment.
That being said, *obtaining* those decryption keys might very well be - and likely is - illegal in itself. However, one of the previous lawsuits on this topic basically says that the end product of something - in this case, the emulator using the decryption keys - is not inherently illegal simply because one of the steps to make it work is illegal - obtaining those decryption keys.
In many ways, emulation as a whole in littered with those kinds of differences. The emulator itself might be legal, but obtaining the decryption keys isn't. Making a copy of a game you own is legal, but only if *you* are making that copy for "archival" purposes. This basically means any copies of a game you download is going to be illegal, as it is no longer an archival copy. If you dump a copy of a game you own and give that copy to other people, *your* copy then technically becomes illegal, as it would be a distributive copy rather than archival.
It is, realistically, a very silly difference, yet it exists, and most people don't often realize or understand those distinctions.
And yes, companies will do everything in their power to try and make as many of those differences as possible weigh in their favor. To an extent, the current laws actually *require* them to do so, since they have to create reasonable protections for their copyrighted works - sticking with older methods of protection that have been broken in numerous ways would, inevitably, start failing the test of these laws, and so they must continually push the boundaries of what is considered "reasonable protection".
Yuzu definitely caused damages to Nintendo and charged money for it. Nintendo is well within their rights.
Maybe Nintendo just shouldn't exist anymore.
this is why i hate Nintendo ever since. they dont provide service like steam does. barely any sale like steam does....no regional price like steam does.
Nintendo is not steam so stick with steam then...
THEY DONT EVEN SELL 3DS ANYMORE! why cant they let us play our damn games!?
well, for all you know, they are planning to re-release those games, put them on the virtual store, remake them, make money from them in the future in some way that they have the right to retain, and unfortunately you don’t have the right to deprive them of that potential ability to do with their games what they want, because they are their games intellectual property, not yours. even though it would be super convenient for the games to be available right now to play on an emulator
@@NaturalEntertainer85 spoken like a corpo apologist.
@BellularNews Not going to lie, your title nearly gave me a heart attack that Nintendo somehow hit Palworld & PocketPair and forced them to close down.
That was probably his intention, so more would click on it. It's why I did, unfortunately.
They have certainly kept track of the game, but haven't found a path to shut it down.
Nintendo is not the only kid on the block anymore in terms of handhelds. PC handhelds have been around for some time, but not nearly as mainstream as 2023 made them. Most Switch games are cross-platform, there is actually no incentive to buy them on the Switch anymore. That is not an emulation problem, just a fact. If I can buy Shredder's Revenge on Steam vs. Switch, Steam let's me play it on any PC device I own (handheld and pc) with cross saves. So yeah, if Nintendo's plan is solely to rely on their first party titles and blame emulation for everything, I think they are in trouble. Most Nintendo fans, probably aren't truly going to buy every first party title, let alone cross platform ones if they own a PC (of any type).
Basically the Switch is like the WoW for handhelds. It was the incumbent with little competition when it came out 7 years ago. The Switch 2 will be the Wildstar. Great on its own, but coming out into a much more saturated market. Not just competing with Switch 1, but with Rog Ally 1+2, Steam Deck, MSI Claw, rumor has it Microsoft may have one as well as Playstation.
The days of owning virtual content is going out the window. These companies are funneling us to a future where we rent digital content before forcing us to pay by subscription, or time. I’m worried about the future of Valve’s Steam once Gabe Newell is gone.
At this point, I feel like nintendo needs a new console to run those heavier games. OR. Make a device that the player can plug into their PC and can put their legally owned switch game chips into and run those games on PC. Or make a new nintendo platform on PC where players can purchase and play nintendo games on PC. PC market is growing and they haven't tapped into it at all and I feel like they should, as evidenced by the million downloads of Tears of the Kingdom.
imagine running to courts to enforce adoption of your widgets rather than just making a better widget. nintendo is screaming from the rooftops that it is not a company that values quality, community, or fun, but instead want to sit back in their chairs and do nothing but wall off their garden.
It's sadden me that this happen, not only we lost Yuzu but also Citra.
More and more.... I will never buy Nintendo products again. Ever.
Another problem about this is making emulation software for actual console generations, it is extremely risky since playing new games this way can take away sales from currently supported games. They should have make a dedicated hard drive to keep their own roms, keep the development of the emulator in house and when the life cycle of the switch came to an end, now make available the emulator and this way they would have drawn less attention from nintendo. Im in favor of game preservation but this legitimate was hurting both nintendo and developers who work hard for their public.
I wonder what disgusting things the lawyers have in their hard drives they are getting away with.
Good riddance. You can’t claim to be against piracy while also supplying the means to access content before it’s officially released.