A brief history of live sound reinforcement
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2015
- A presentation that I put together recently for a group of university students in Singapore. We normally don't go into this type of detail when training new sound engineers but I made an exception for this class :)
The structure of this presentation is based largely on a pair of excellent articles written by Andy Coules for prosoundweb.com - links to these articles can be found below.
Hope you enjoy this little look into where our industry came from. Voice over recorded with a Shure SM86.
Support GLB Productions: www.patreon.com/glbproduction...
References:
Ball, P., 2007. Why the Greeks could hear plays from the back row. [Online]
Available at: www.nature.com/news/2007/07031...
[Accessed 5th Sept 2015].
Coules, A., 2014. The History Of PA part 1. [Online]
Available at: www.prosoundweb.com/the-histo...
[Accessed 5th Sept 2015].
Coules, A., 2015. Modern Pioneers: The History Of PA, Part 2. [Online]
Available at: www.prosoundweb.com/modern-pi...
[Accessed 6th Sept 2015].
Feel free to get in touch with questions or comments!
Website: www.glbproductions.com/
Facebook: / glbproductions
07: 32 Swedish Champion sound system (from a translation):
Champion Presenter A2
Portable Speech Reinforcement System
A2 includes the following pieces:
10 Watt High Fidelity Amplifier, Type G17
12” Permanent Dynamic Speaker
High Quality Dynamic Microphone
Chrome adjustable microphone stand
Elegant Blue bag with folding speaker cover
In addition to this amplifier, Champion has a history of the absolute highest quality at competitive prices.
Mains connection approved.
S marked.
1 year warranty.
PRICE ONLY 475 kr Retail (approx. $60 USD)
Ah very good, many thanks for the translation!
Great video, Thank you!
RetroElectroville I
my pa speaker is a dual 18 inch subwoofer ngl that 6400 peak watts power and that's 1600 Watts RMS
You forgot the part about bikinis being included 😂
Those turbo sound point source speakers still sound great to this day when set up correctly
I remember seeing my first rock concert in a small hockey arena in Ontario, Canada. It was KISS on their 'Love Gun' Canada Tour. That show utilized the 70s style 'stacked' P.A. with the bass, midrange and treble cabinets piled-up on either side of the stage. The sound was deafening (my hearing after felt like a jet airplane taking-off in my head) for three days later. The actual musical performances of Cheap Trick as the opener and KISS as the headliner sounded like their songs had been put through a grinder. I loved every minute of it, and it gave me the belief every rock band of that day played at a volume you could feel. As most of the speaker cabinets were 'air-suspension' type, I noticed when the KISS members stepped in-front of the PA it blew their hair like a high-speed fan.
Thanks for sharing, John :)
another excellent and enlightening half-an-our, courtesy of RUclips and its fantastic contributors!!
WHERE HAS THIS CHANNEL BEEN ALL MY LIFE?! This is great information on this channel, SUBSCRIBED.
+Jevanni Ellis Welcome! Glad to have you on board :)
This is such a great idea as a Netflix show
Big fan of your channel. I have learned so much in less of two hours of your videos.
I have bought a sound system and unable to wire them correctly until today.
thanks for what you do for us bringing so needed help.
+bruce cedeno Very glad to hear that - knowledge is power! If you would like to support the channel please consider signing up to become a patron at www.patreon.com/glbproductions?ty=h Every little bit helps!
My home system was a pair of Altec A-7 speakers with the crown amp and a bogen table.
This video is a delight to watch. I would like to say that since their advent in the mid 60's, the Sure SM57 and 58 remain the industry standard for amplifying and recording instrument amplifiers.
Thanks for watching Sam.
This was the coolest little doc I’ve seen in a long time… great job!!!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Thanks for watching Brandon!
Very nice. Thanks so much for sharing. Anyone who is into sound should watch, learn & appreciate this awesome video. Thanks again.
+Tony Draper Thanks for watching!
I've been looking for a video like this for awhile, thank You for that. I hope in near future there will be a documentary about this topic, with old footage and interviews with the technicians from that time.
+Will Isleshill I seem to recall that there have been attempts at this before - for example examining the wall of sound that the grateful dead used. But yes it would be great to have one covering the same period that this video does, with more detail. I suspect it would be about two hours long though ;)
Bill Hanley was said to have built a line array at Madison Square Garden, I believe it was '68 for The Stones.
Excellent presentation about the sound system, thanks
+Prabin Pradhan You're welcome, thanks for watching.
Fantastic work!
You have done what is mostly not even considered being done for the next generation of audio/sound engineers...Thanks!
You're welcome Teddy.
Fantastic as you truly are. An absolute education for the average guy like me. Thank you Bruno!
+Jonny Rocker You're most welcome, I always love to hear when one of my videos has added to somebody else's knowledge of music :)
Great video! I especially enjoyed the excellent pictures of early audio gear and systems. I want to let you know I did not see a thumbnail popping up in my feed. I have noticed this happening to many older videos lately. I hope you can update that when you get a chance.
In fact, the "Line Array" came about when us old guys got tired of hauling all of these huge boxes around. Going to smaller boxes was a huge mistake. Line Array sucks almost all of the time. You can typically hear better sound at home vs a concert. It didn't use to be that way.
Well I don't blame you! Times are a changin' though! Have you heard the big Danley boxes? They have the line array lads quaking in their boots....
They're just used everywhere nowadays. Is there a reason so many indoor venues install line arrays? It always seemed like a weird choice to me since you don't have to worry about moving them around so much, so I would think enclosure size wouldn't be as much of an issue. I never really was super satisfied with the sound of any line array systems I've heard when attending concerts as a spectator. I only really work audio in smaller venues with point source systems, so maybe I just need to adjust my expectations?
You're right about being able to get better sound at home. I've never heard a line array system that was able to make pre recorded music sound as good as my mid range, cobbled together home audio setup. The one time I was allowed to sit in the driver seat of a line array, I tired to get my bearings by playing back Genesis' Behind the Lines and Tom Sawyer by Rush, I was pretty unimpressed with the capabilities of the system.
brad !!! ❤😂😂❤ these new line arrayes are dogshit!!lame weak db level 100db weak, the old days were 145db front row 130 row 10 . 120db row 50...line arrays aare also never installed correctly because a forklift is required to tilt the bottom array downward at the front row, NEVER EVER EVER HAPPENS!!!! pathetic!!! and jbl who does have good speakers doesnt explain the tilt requirement in line arrays!! dogshit everywherre, i complain at concerts, they will scrounge up some big full range refridgerators in the row 1 sides, to at least provide some loud mids and highs!
That was only one benefit. Cardioid bass, predictability, beam steering, efficiency there's loads of reasons we use line arrays
@@zambotv8150 Agreed, although it must be said that all of the above can be achieved with non line-array systems. I think this argument is a wash today - what matters most is good sound, not how one achieves it.
Our Band in 1968 was nothing like this but the PA worked at our gigs . You go to the local high school dances in the gym. all the bands had all their instruments played through the individual amplifiers and they played them loud. What was used for vocals was really simple, we had three mic 🎤 one lead and two for harmonies.All the bands had some kind of power amp ( I had a Bogen 50 watt ) and the vocals went out through horns . Atlas Sound was what everyone used like you see at sport stadiums. They came shaped in a rectangular or round 16 inch,all were mounted on horn stands really bigger mic stands with a X base to keep them steady. I hooked out a Realisic mike mixer so it would hold up to 8 mikes. And that was what the local ( even the best local bands) used for a PA system and they worked and sounded better than trying to use an Extra channel out of someone’s guitar amp. I didn’t see the big box cabinets till the next year and only by professional bands. The bands I talked about didn’t have a big truck to transport and it was not on a budget, when we getting 35 to 70 dollar payouts to divide between 4-5 members But that was pretty good money for a teenage hobby. People turn their nose up when I’d explain this but I heard many bands using this type of sound system. I recently found a picture of Moby grape with the horns like these for vocals.
Thanks for the contribution! It really doesn't matter how old your sound system is as long as it sounds good and goes loud enough for your needs.
Thanks GLB ,many have expressed “ you had no bass bins it must have sounded tinny “ , all in all my PA setup sounded good and none of the people that saw us ever complained.I’m only telling this because there is nothing really anywhere that I can find about using this type system to explain this was sound reinforcement that bands used.If anyone ever finds something about this please let me know !
Nice to see you back, Bruno. Meaningful video as always. Is it possible for you to do a video for phase cancellation, comb filtering and subwoofer placement. I read some articles online but didn't quite get them. Thanks.
+Apache Cai Thanks for watching! Those are relatively technical topics but I will definitely add them to the list!
I love the historical portion. I know many people who saw the Beatles in Shea Stadium, I don't know anyone who heard anything.
That really sums it up, doesn't it?
bro. thanks for this. always doing great work. keep it up
+zerodaysoon You're welcome, thanks very much for watching.
Thank you Bruno 👍🏼 Great job
Glad you liked it!
Great and informative video ! Thanks
You're welcome Greg!
Someone may have already mentioned it, but the slide with the EAW loudspeakers are actually KF750 and KF755's. KF850's were more on the idea of the previous slide with the Turbosound enclosures. The KF750 represented a very interesting shift in how an array was put together. there is no tilt to any of the enclosures, they are hung vertical. In a way, I beleive this bridged the gap between the "traditional" loudspeaker cluster like the Turbosound or EAW KF850 and the "line array" (curvilinear array) systems that came later. eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Loudspeakers/KF/KF750/KF700_Touring_Usage_Guide.pdf
Thanks for your contribution :)
Love this stuff.
Thanks for watching William!
Good stuff. Thanks.
You're welcome :)
good stuff Bruno... you da man !
Nicely done. Very cool and informative.
Epidaurus Theatre is shaped like a loud speaker, the stage is the cone.
Awesome stuff, I noticed that to.
Amazing. Thanks!
+Marc F Claret You're welcome, thanks for watching!
Very informative! Thank you!
You're welcome Brendan!
i learned a lot from this video... thanks for posting...
+emilio roe serquiña gapit You're most welcome, knowledge is free to share and enriches both the giver and receiver :)
Very interesting and orderly progression of the development of the systems. It was unfortunate that JBL wasn't mentioned, they did exist and participate in this and their equipment remains in use worldwide. The Clair brothers and their seminal contributions likely deserve mention as well.
Thanks for watching Ed!
@@GLBProductions The Grateful Dead are pivotal in the development of the modern P.A. Meyer Line Arrays, JBL speakers,, Macintosh amps.
Clair S4 still the best sounding cabinets I've heard.
JBL?? How about ElectraVoice? I guess the Brits only see what they want to see
Awesome stuff 😎
Thanks Samuel!
Correction- There were mixing consoles in the late 70's that had variable bus sends to for monitors. Yamaha PM1000 came out in '74, and PM2K in '78. By the early 80's it was common. Prefader was called "Foldback" (the term still used in theatre sound design, and by us ancients), and postfader was called "echo". If you were lucky, you'd even get TWO of each and maybe a built in spring reverb! This bit of work is quite well done. Thanks Bruno!
Oh yes I remember those consoles - there were still quite a number of them around when I started in live sound 20 years ago. Thanks for the comment!
@@GLBProductions The sheer tonnage of the PM2K's input transformers was impressive in and of itself!
As usual, the absolute best there is on RUclips or anywhere else!
Thanks for watching, Danny!
The reason for flying line arrays was to cover more of the audience and the biggest advantage was being able to add more seats that would have been taken away by traditional stacks.
One of the most distinguished live sound co's is Ultrasound which is the touring sound division of Meyer Sound.
just a small add, martin audio did some great work on sound reinforcement back in the 70's
Thanks for the contribution!
since i added next to nothing to make a contribution :D, ill just say that at the beggining of the 70's ( 73 i think ) pink Floyd started using some of the new bass bins( 215 mk1 bass bin) designed by dave martin, and later on he started working on a 3 way modular pa system, and he delivered in the 80's with the 115 bass bin and the "philishave" and toured with dire straits, they were on top of it pretty much from the start also great video and thanks for the great content
@@Pookytroll i own a pair of 115s they used 😏😁
@@whytboysam9467 i love them, i and my friends have 4 bins with pd1550 in them and they are great, i like them more then funktion one's f215, that we also have 4 of
Outstanding
Thanks James!
No worries mate. I learned so much from your post. My first sound system was in 1977 OMG! 😮, but I didn’t know that much. Great job.
Very cool
Thanks for watching!
The back part of the stage in Epidaurus is missing. It is presumed that it added up even more to the loudness of voices.
just an idea, but perhaps its to let open air in at the back, which helps carry the sound out?
nexgenhippy it just fell with age and earthquakes. It was needed back then
Thanks for information
You're welcome Mayur.
@@GLBProductions i am live sound engineer, but your knowledge about live sound is great I'm big fan of you sir
God bless you
Hey, Bruno. I wanted to ask you: do you know if the WEM Audiomaster mixer was the first electrical signal mixer used for musical purposes, be it recording or PA systems? I was curious especially about the recording usage of mixers. I was wondering as to when was it that recordings started to make use of multiple microphones for recording an orchestra or a choir, for example. I imagine it would be technically achievable at least after 1925 as electric signals entered audio systems at this date, and I know of the movie Fantasia and the Fantasound sound system used several microphones to capture the orchestra but, as far as I know, the system recorded each signal input to a different record disc and later used each disc separately for different speakers in the reproduction venue. What I was wondering was if it was possible that there had been audio mixers during 1930's onwards, which would have allowed for more than one microphone to be mixed into a single mono signal and recorded into a record despite technically not using multitrack isolation of different microphones during recording. Do you know if this (mixers existing previous to the Audiomaster and having been used in recording situations) has been the case in any point in time? This question has been with me for very long but I cannot find bibliography that would inform me about it.
That's a good question - I'm not an expert on this topic, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. PA systems were in use since the nineteen-teens, so there should have been audio mixers available not too long after that.
A Fair summary ..
Thanks for watching Tom.
One thing I use to react to when listening to small outdoor conserts, is that the aimd sunjective (me) heard sound is way way madness loud, sometimes we had to step back over 100 meters to stand the sound volume. I do not understand wy - so loud -
I really liked youre video, really informative so don't get me wrong. I would like to hear moore "High Fi" consert, with moderat volume.
Thanks for good video.
SB. Sweden.
Hello Stig, I completely agree with you on the volume problem - I have stopped mixing these louder gigs just to look after my hearing 😳 There are several possible reasons for this - one is the volume of modern acoustic drumkits (can easily be over 100dB SPL in the front row with the PA turned OFF) which means that the PA then needs to be run louder than that in order to balance the band. Another is that modern PA systems have huge amounts of power available, which makes it very tempting for sound engineers to turn things up way too loud! I would suggest a couple of things:
1. If you have a choice, sit or stand near the mixer position - this is typically where the best sound is, and the most reasonable volume, assuming the sound engineer is responsible.
2. Buy some musician's earplugs - I use those from Etymotic - these provide a moderate amount of protection (around 12dB SPL) without attenuating too much of the high frequencies and thus spoiling your appreciation of the music.
Finally, I have found that there are certain types of music that lend themselves to more finesse when it comes to sound reinforcement: musicals, jazz and funk/soul. These genres tend to attract seasoned and professional musicians who are much more concerned with the overall musical experience than blowing the audience out of the back of the venue with sound!
All the best, and look after your ears 😄
Great video! Can i know where these uni students were from or what course? Interested in pursuing a course in uni, but havent really looked into them.
+Mervin Ling Thanks for watching! They were from SMU - doing the training as part of their CCA, not their university course ;)
+GLB Productions Ah i see i see, hahaha we dont get such training in our Sec School/JC for live sound if any at all, for the most part passed on from seniors to juniors and mostly self-learnt to be more proficient.
+Mervin Ling Yes, unfortunately most schools do not realise the value of having regular and systematic training for their students, but my partners and I are working to slowly change that :)
On the Beatles at Shea Stadium picture, I see mics on guitar cabinets. So how, did they do it if there were no Mixers that time? Each mic is amplified into its own Loudspeaker?
Audio mixers did exist at the time, but they were designed for public address and broadcast use - not stadium rock and roll shows 😆 The mics on the cabinets are apparently for the recording that was made of the concert. Additional information here: www.mixonline.com/issue-type/beatles-shea-stadium-429036
The Shea Stadium speakers were tall column cabinet type and weren't really designed for music; more for as speech or announcement public addressing. It was adequate for that use. I guess they really pushed the limit when they tried to feed every part of the band's sound through that house system. I wasn't born back then, so I have to best guess.
If you want to look at a good history on live sound, check out Bob Heil and Heil Sound (pronouced "High-el"). His first big client in the mid-60s was the Grateful Dead. Bob saved the day for them by loaning out his system with the huge Altec Lansing A4s, after "Bears" Owsley got arrested for drug possession along with the band's sound system and instruments. That put Bob and his company on the map as the go-to for reliable modern sound.
Very interesting Bruno!it reminds me of the Live Sound Engineer course I did 3 years ago...which included most of what you talked about :)
+Cris Valk That's good, glad to hear that my teaching aligns with other curricula around the world :)
You have forgotten the Clair S4, and although I am not a fan the Showco prisim. The S4 was the rig for decades.
By the way 24:50 those are the EAW KF750 not the 850, you may want to change that.
Nice vid! from MTW ....musician... ...LA, CA USA
Thanks for watching!
Great presentation! But links don't work know... Can you upload them, please?
Thanks Lena, I've updated the links and they work now :)
I'm not too sure if you covered the whole mic pointing back at the wall of sound problem.
It wasn't a problem - they used sound-cancelling microphones :)
Wondering how Michael Jackson biggest tours went.. listing it sounds great tho..even the bass
If you look at that,i think roman theatre,what did they call that was it amphitheare,I am not sure. But it looks like what came to modern sound reproduction,modern like 1930s and the use of horns,to amplify realy low power amplifiers,for a much bigger sound! Just a thought?
Yes an amphitheater is somewhat horn-shaped for sure.
You really should have included danley in this presentation as the senergy horn is the future.
Yes, for sure - this video was made before I started using Danley loudspeakers.
I miss those huge bass horns nonetheless.
The references to EAW at 24:50 are not technically correct. The Photo is an array of KF750 that did not come out until the later part of the 1990s. The KF850 was introduced in the early 1980s and rapidly became the largest selling touring sound loudspeaker system in the world through the mid-1990s.
Thanks Ken - this video has been up for years and you're the first person to spot that 😄
Really good stuff Bruno. I've learned a lot from this, not least about distribution over CAT 5 networks. Please forgive one criticism - it is a shame to hear your speech popping so much.
+48snapper Haha spoken like a true sound engineer! Thanks for the feedback :)
For the wall of sound, you commented that they used two microphones one in phase and one out of phase in order to stop feedback because they're standing in front of all the speakers. Can you actually make a video of attempting this and explain how it's done in detail please. Thanks
Thanks for the suggestion!
Fantastic.. Very well done and shows my age.. I cut my teeth on the EAW KF-850 still works great in the right situation.. Along with the SB-1000 made a rockin' little rig..
Absolutely - there's nothing wrong with the older gear as long as you know how to drive it. The newer arrays rely very heavily on the use of computer modeling software for correct set up and it's really easy to make them sound bad in a hurry.
Except that the EAW KF 850 was not developed in the "80's" as claimed but in the 70's with Carlo Sound in Nashville in conjunction with their serving the Allman Bros.
Amazingly, the 850 rigs were so prevalent, ... at least here in the US. There was quite an extended period of time whereby the 850 based rigs were spec'd and used everywhere. Heavy things for sure.
i spesifically searched for this
Thanks for watching!
Very Good!
"Live Sound Systems Engineer" ♦
Most Difficult & Most Beautiful Job In The World ♦
.. From Tubes - To Cat 5 -
Music Please...♪
A very good ouverview of PA system history...cascaded systems where used since the 40ties...Stadion concerts for 10 to 20 000 listeners were organized...it`s not always true that for example the Beatles could not hear themselfs...my father heard the Beatles live in 65 in Milano Velodrome, he told me the sound was pretty good, he only missed the most of bass frequencies...
Clearly the Italians had their act together long before the Americans ;)
I am yet to hear a line array system that actually sounds good am sure they are out there but I certainly never heard any.
A lot of it has to do with user error - deploying a line array correctly requires a lot of calculations to determine the correct number of boxes, the flown height of the array and the angle between each box to get the correct coverage to suit the specific venue at hand. None of this is simple and a lot of vendors don't bother resulting in bad sound.
@@GLBProductions Do you think setting up a point source system in large venue presents less technical issues,because I have heard more better sounding point source systems to be frank.
Hard to say because every venue is different 😉 So much depends on the coverage that is needed, the required SPL, type of event, indoors vs outdoors etc. One of the reasons that line arrays became popular is that they require relatively few rigging points compared to traditional arrays so for simple L-R configurations they may actually be simpler - it really depends on the specifics of the show.
@@GLBProductions Keep up the good work. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge,I have learned a lot from you .
Thanks for supporting the channel :)
Excellent presentation
Thanks for watching :)
W.E.M.
Early 'The Pink Floyd' system.
I still own a pair of the 115s they used 😏
At the 25:50 Mark you talk about the EAW KF850 cabinets , But show the EAW KF750 Cabinets in the Picture ..You Know How I know This? The Fly Points are on the Top and Bottom of the EAW KF850's . The Flyware on the EAW KF750 is on the Fronts and back . By the Way , WHERE is all of the KUSTOM and SHURE PA Equipment . Seems you Favor The ENGLISH Companies Pal...LOL.... If you ever need any Cool Pictures I have been at this since 1967 in Northern California ...
please can you give your fb ??
+THOMAS EDISON The link is in the video description :)
Martin f1 ? ....bit of a jump to turbo flown array...makes Andrew's more of a hero than he is
Excuse me but you siad that the inventor of the loudspeaker used it to amplify his telephone. What was producing the sound in his telephone if not a loud speaker? Thanks
He didn't actually invent the loudspeaker, he invented the modern moving coil loudspeaker - there were other loudspeakers around before this, but the moving-coil type is what went on to be used in modern sound reinforcement systems.