I had an issue with a brand new low rider ST. Had the same aftermarket service plan that kevin is talking about.. from day 1. 3 days after having my bike, i installed a stage 1 with a powervision tune. About a week later when i really started riding it, the bike had really bad excessive blowby. Like I lost a qt of oil in 2 days. Dealership was not educated in how this warranty "voiding" thing actually works (like doc just explained here in the video) and had told me my warranty was void. Rather than fight with the dealership and harley on it, i had submitted the claim thru the aftermarket service plan, i was able to take it to my mechanic (non-dealer) and get the issue fixed (loose piston oilers), along with a big bored kit and many other upgrades installed. Now bike runs great, still has less than 1500 miles on it and is fully covered (including aftermarket upgraded parts) regarding warranty until 2026. However, had I not purchased the Aftermarket ESP, This would have escalated with Harley. Piston oilers not being torqued down properly from the factory was proof that the failure had absolutely nothing to do with the tuner. The education from this video needs to be spread to other dealerships because that is where the incorrect information comes from regarding voiding warranties.
I love my FLSTCI 2004, but I will never understand how a company like HD can build a V Twin motor, basically the same as it was 100+ years ago, and still not get it right! Cam chain tensioners getting chewed... I think Kevin would justify a position on the board of HD!
The reason for the class action lawsuit was bc some dealerships were denying claims for frivolous reasons. Examples of slip ons, oil changes… HD was known for being ridiculous, especially compared to other manufacturers. The warranty/paperwork hasn’t changed, it forced HD to abide by the law.
Let’s talk about the motor oil. Harley’s syn3 motor oil does not show any oil rating that it meets. There is no JASO class rating on their oils. A JASO rating is not a trade secret it is a classification set forth by the industry. There is no way I would an oil that does not show a rating on it.
Well I watched a video by Kevin on oils, synthetic vs conventional. He takes a similar stance and said he doesn’t trust or use an oil that doesn’t show its ratings/classification. If I recall correctly he said he does not use the (H-D) manufacturers oil for that reason. It appeared (he did not mention it by name) that he uses Amsoil. Disappointed he didn’t say in this video what he said in the other regarding H-D engine oil.
All this depended on the dealer you deal with. I've ran Mobil 1 15w-50 Syn in my 95 Heritage (in the motor) since 20,000 miles. Change oil every 2500 miles. Got 97,500 miles now. Never been into the motor.
bought my bike new in 05. I bought a 7yr warranty. the harely shop said I should do this this and this. tuner, true duals, big bore kit, port the heads. I wanted geared cams. dealer says we will void your warranty if go geared cams. my motor went south, they threw a bunch junk into my motor. wouldn't deal help me any longer. I paid another 9k out pocket have my motor rebuilt. I would not trust anything a harley dealership ever says. you can call my attitude anything you want. Harley dealerships are the lowest.
Most dealerships are out for profit period. Some squeeze every damn nickel even when it's obviously larceny. I do most of my own maintenance and use a locally owned shop for anything else. I have had to go for digital tech updates but they are free or 30 bucks and no one is touching the motor.
I absolutely love and trust Doc and have been lucky enough to talk to him in person for a few short minutes between races, I’ve watched a couple of your joint videos and really like the fact that instead of putting on the gloves and duking it out you guys work together for a common cause !
The big issue here is that H-D has hopped into bed with the EPA, and is betraying their customers. If you buy a new H-D, it is going to sound like shit, plain and simple. And H-D DOES NOT make any exhaust that will make it sound like a Harley is supposed to sound like. So you have no choice but to get an aftermarket exhaust to make your H-D motorcycle sound like a Harley. I mean, that sound is a huge part of why someone buys a Harley to begin with. Remember when H-D actually tried to trademark the sound of their bikes? The problem is, H-D motorcycles are already set too lean from the factory, which is why they run way too hot even completely stock. When you install an aftermarket exhaust that makes you bike sound like it should, you have no choice but to retune it for that exhaust. And H-D does not make anything that will get the air/fuel mixture rich enough, because of their illicit affair with the EPA. So to avoid destroying their engine, the owner/rider has no choice but to go with an aftermarket tuner, and aftermarket O2 sensors to get their air/fuel mixture to the point where it won't destroy their engine, and doing so will likely void their warranty. Fortunately this does not affect me, as I only own and ride older carbureted EVO engine Harleys. I have owned seven Harleys during the past 20 years, after getting my first one, a 1989 FXRS Low Rider in 2003. I still have that one, and will never get rid of it. I also currently own two Sportsters. All three of my Harleys have aftermarket exhausts and modified carburetors, the '89 Low Rider has an S&S carburetor. H-D has basically done away with the reason to buy a new H-D bike. Most people including myself buy and ride H-D motorcycles because of the feel and sound. H-D got rid of the sound a long time ago, and has now made it impossible for someone buying a new H-D to get that sound back without voiding the warranty. And they got rid of the feel with the horrible M8 engine. One H-D mechanic told me the balancers could be removed from the M8 to get the feel back, another told me that they could not, that the engine was not designed to run without the balancers and would destroy itself if they were removed. So new H-D bikes no longer have the Harley sound or feel. And attempting to get it back will void your warranty and possibly destroy the bike. So now what is the reason to buy a new H-D bike for way more $$$ than some other brand, if they no longer have the characteristics that made people want them to begin with? By bowing to the EPA and not supporting their customers, H-D has put the noose around their neck. This VIN block thing was the result of a between the sheets agreement between H-D and the EPA. And hopefully H-D pays dearly for it.
All of us that grew up riding these bikes have watched it go down just as you stated. Without a cam, air filter, slip ons and a tune there is no Harley sound or feel reminiscent of the eighties, nineties and even early two thousands. You speak for many of us. Well done sir!!
Really to the average consumer the warranty is crap. Two years unlimited mileage. Well in nw ohio where you got winter and in summer you work your ass off you don't put alot of miles on your bike . So in two short little seasons you got no warranty anyways ..so why even talk warrantys
Really good series. Been watching you guys independently for a lot of years. I have been riding many many years but in 2022 I bought a new streetglide special. I have to put in 5000 miles on this bike. The catalytic converter is just too hot so I put a full sack MX header with kromewerks and a stage two using power vision tuner. I’m very interested to know what I still retain in my warranty and what I will be responsible with mechanical issues down the road and you answered a lot of my questions both of you have, and thank you again.
Oil is a big deal. If the oil is made to a specific standard or meets an advertised specification it should not void the warranty. I would argue that HD is a "cost conscious" manufacturer which means they too buy from "cheapest" supplier that can supply an oil to a specification or standard. So oil like Mobil synthetic for Motorcycles should not even be in question.
Oil... Oil is always one of the biggest discussions on the internet. I hear so many people put down Syn3, saying, Harley Davidson doesn't make their own oil. Of course they don't. Harley Davidson is a motorcycle manufacturer, not an oil company. The OIL company that supplies the Harley Davidson branded oils, makes it to Harley Davidsons specifications. Harley Davidson isn't going to source the cheapest oil available either. Why would a manufacture, who offers and backs a warranty on their motorcycles want cheap oil poured into the very engines, transmissions and primary drives that they warranty? That would be like shooting yourself in the foot. Then there are the people that say synthetic oil thins out when it gets hot and that is why you should use "Dino" oil. Well, the base of most synthetic oil is "Dino" oil. Multi-viscosity Dino oil has additives added to it to make it act like synthetic oil without those same additives. The additives in Dino oil is what helps make it a multi-viscosity oil, helping it to flow better at lower temperatures and making it thicker at higher temperatures. Over time, the additives in Dino oil will break down and vaporize, returning the oil to it's original state. Remember, full synthetic doesn't have those particular additives and should not have a change in it's viscosit; although, they can become thicker with the amount of contaminates present in the oil. Then there are the guys who swear by a brand of oil that drains out as clean as when they put it in. That right there should tell you, the oil is NOT doing its job. The 3 main functions of oil is, lubrication, cooling and trapping and suspending contaminates in your engine, caused from combustion byproducts. This is what keeps the inside of your engine clean and sludge free. Oil also prevents corrosion and oxidation within the engine. I have heard people go as far as saying Syn3 and HD 360 is junk oil because it doesn't have the API Service Doughnut. Well, Harley Davidson oil is made for Harley Davidson's, not Hondas, Kawasaki's or any other manufacture's motorcycles. That is why there is no need for the API Service Doughnut. I'm glad Kevin brought up using oil made for diesel engines if you are in a bind and need oil. That is right in your owner's manual. A service rating that starts with a 'C" means compression ignition engine, as in a diesel engine. Anything with a service rating that starts with an 'S' means spark ignition engine, gasoline engine. Some oils will be rated for both C & S applications. What you need to pay attention to is, the letters and numbers that come after the 'C', again, check your owner's manual. If you really want to know how well your oil of choice is performing in your motorcycle, send a sample to an independent lab for analysis. I use Blackstone-labs. They will give you a breakdown of all the wear metals in your oil and compare it with average wear metals in similar engines with the same miles on them. They will check for coolants and water, like if you have a twin cooled Harley Davidson. They will let you know how well your oil filter and air filter are performing. They will tell you if the oil viscosity is what it should be. The analysis will tell you if you have fuel in your oil. They will give you a breakdown of every element in your oil. Let's say you have a high chromium and iron levels showing up in your oil. Well, that should tell you that your piston rings and cylinders are wearing more than they should be. An oil analysis is like getting a checkup for your engine.
Kevin, I was surprised to see you doing these videos with Doc Harley! I bought all my parts from you on my TC build & I met Mike at Low Country when I rode down there. Two very different views coming together. Love it! Thanks for the great content. 👍
This info may not be new, or a change to the warranty, but it must come as news to some HD dealers otherwise the FTC never would have had cause to rule. Somebody, or many somebody's must have been getting told, either at the dealerships or in print from the motor company, that the aftermarket parts would void the warranty. Plus, certain companies wanting to market to HD customers had a vested interest in dispelling this common misconception, no matter how it originated.
Years ago an independent laboratory did a test on all major oils. Harley Davidson oil was at the bottom end of the list. I like Red Line but my dealer only has Harley products.
Great video guys...I watch Doc each week.....BUT.....Harley Davidson is at the top of the ladder in motorcycles,YET it is at the bottom when it comes to WARRANTY....Honda,Yamaha,Kawasaki offer at least 3 year some more of warranty.....OIL Harley don't make any oil,they speck it from whomever is the cheapest!!!!lowest bidder if u will...Lastly Harley's front office has NO MOTORCYCLE people in it!!!! If Harley wants to lead then lead it must in all catagories!!!!
Harley-Davidson does not own the refinery where the lubrication oil is made. The MoCo works with these refineries and the engineers to develop specific additive packages to meet the needs of there purpose. This is the reason there is no specific API classification on there products. It is only specified for use in Harley Davidson products. There is also products from major oil companies that can meet the needs of Harley. I have used these in the products in the past and will continue to use them in the future. Thanks to Doc' & Kevin for there comments and help in educating us.
The more likely reason for not having an API classification is to obfuscate the actual properties of the oil so people will be induced to use HD oil out of ignorance and fear. If the oil can meet API and JASO certification requirements then it should be on the label. While both processes take a bit of time and money, last I heard HD has plenty of both.
What about dealers not selling parts after 1995 ?! for their marketing being in their roots, Taiwan 🇹🇼 Ted V Twin MFG seems like it cares for the brand a lot more than the ghost 👻 ship of the brand that they say exists.
Back in my Evo days we changed it every thousand miles with the cheapest 20w50 and a Toyota 4cyl pick up truck filter, it was slightly longer but it worked. You comment flooded a bunch of memories.
Harley warranty is useless. I will never buy a bike or a warranty from them again. It’s the worst motor company I have ever dealt with. I will be looking into men like Kevin’s shop to build my bike next time.
Great job Gentlemen I love what you guys are doing,My question is I have a 21 flhxs each time I service my primary oil the chain is tight like a quitar string I have a hd 5 year extended warrantee I would love to install the baker manual tensioner.But if I have a compensator problem or a main bearing clutch hub bearing ETC... problem I'm concerned they will void these parts cause of the tensioner. I like 5/8 to 7/8 tension not a quitar string.
Hi Doc , im in Japan, The Tuners are not leagle here , I have changed the SE exhaust and air cleaner SE Extreem , these guys here don't have any knowledge in the harley , is the bike okay without tuning , since it is very EPA compliment no one does the tuning and it is as expensive as 1200usd to just tune the bike out side and we will loose warranty ?its a dam picklle , what should I do?
I love both of you when you say that HD builds great motorcycles I don't agree totally as they have now put in the m8 motor plastic intakes and lifter cuffs. I'm no expert but that seems like a very cheap move by them considering what these bikes cost. It's not correct that after we buy such an expensive new bike we need to upgrade to S&S or other high quality non plastic parts because truth is these intake manifolds and lifter cuffs will warp or melt in the long run. It's frigging plastic . Can you give a reasonable explanation why the Moco cheaped out on such important and crucial pieces? Thank you both🙏
Who makes Harley Davidson oil I don't know but I'll tell you Lucas oil is 10 times better than any Harley Davidson or Oliver maid and they still don't know and Lucas was cheaper than Harley Davidson oil weight cheaper
Why didn't HD recall the really oil pump in the 2017-2019 M-8 engines? They did upgrade them in newer models but never admitted it. But thanks, because I decided to upgrade the pump and since you have it open might as well upgrade the cam and cam plate, lifters and a few more things. And boy o boy did it wake it up and will last a lot longer. Was worth it, glad I could afford it. Most can't after the cost of the bike itself!$$
Iv riden harleys for 30+ years and still do. I live In England across the pond. I wish there was goog people like your selfs over hear. Not a harley but I also one 2022 a triumph rocket 3gt the main dealer for triumph didn't know how to service the bike. It came back to me with 1.8l of oil under the min mark.and the rong grade of oil. Just 🤡🤯 saying. Keep up the good work Kevin 👏 👍
The warranty Kevin spoke of is a new product administered by Autrella, it is superior to anything out there. There are some levels like any other but you can truly have a heavily modified bike with a tuner of your choice covered in full and the list of approved places to work on the bike is impressive. Once word begins to get out it will really take off.
I have my Sportster going on 23 years now and I have 400,000 miles on the original engine. It has been a phenomenally reliable motorcycle more than I ever could dream. That's probably why Harley canceled the evolution Sportster because it was too good.
Who is this company you work with for you aftermarket warranty deal? Or is it only through you? I’ve been shopping around for when my extended Harley warranty runs out. Both for normal stuff and also aftermarket goodies
Been subscribed to both ya guys for a long time. Gotta say love watching both of y’alls content. Look forward to possible Collabs in the future. Very educational for the end consumer. 👍
My dealership on a new motorcycle would cover any aftermarket parts that they installed. As far as oil as long as you used the oil that Harley recommended as an alternative when you couldn’t get Harley oil they would cover it, or if the oil said for use in Harley Davidson motorcycles. No problem. But some dealerships suck and use it as a weapon to bend you over! They deserve what happened! This may clear it up for the Bad dealers? Maybe or maybe not, the courts will now be able to sort it out!
Uneducated salesman and service writers are partly to blame for voiding warranties. I went to MMI to become a Harley Tech. Been doing this for 16yrs now and I have heard it all from customers telling me the salesmen or the service writer told me their warranties are void because they didn't use our products which isn't always the case. Get with your service manager or a technician to find the right answer.
I feel like doc wants to explode with all his knowledge and aftermarket know how but he's restricted by the factory ,,,,every time he says something that's inappropriate to them that they don't like He gets a hand slap and that's his livelihood
I have to disagree with the amount of testing the motor co does. Not possible to not know about the oil transfer issue with the M8. Not possible to not know that some piston jets were loose. Not knowing about cam chain tensioners failing on first gen twin cams. Not knowing about the studs pulling out of the case on early evo’s. I could go on.How many miles/hours could they be putting on a new engine design before it’s release? They either didn’t extensively test or they rolled the dice that the issue would not be a big enough issue. I believe that they use the customer as a Beta tester. I also believe that they know that many who buy their product, will not put enough miles on their bikes to have longevity concerns. That being said, I’ve loved riding and maintaining all of my Harley Davidsons. From my 1976 Sporty to my 2019 Ultra Limited. I just believe that their customers care more about the Motor Co than the Motor Co cares about us.
Have a look at HD new oil analysis. It's average at best, nothing special, doesn't make it bad. It's completely overpriced for what you get compared to the aftermarket. Prepare Accordingly.
Harley's going to have to do some serious thinking after Kevin talking about aftermarket warranties Or their prices are going to have to come way down for their stock week new products because everyone has to spend a fortune to make it right
Hi guys, when we take apart the engine and replace some parts. When we reassemble the engine we are basically using used parts. I am not sure why no one is talking muck about dye penetrant testing. I would never reassemble with out testing thing like, heads, cases, covers, manifolds and of course, the new parts. I am sure you both have come across cracked parts new and used. I value the videos and information you both share. Thank you!
Hi Tim. We have come across cracked parts but not very often and the signs are pretty obvious. Also, when a crack is observed, it becomes a known common problem typically. A couple of examples...valve guide bores, crack at valve seat. both will exhibit leeching oil and during disassembly, it's easily seen. You can also tell when pressing parts out. if they come out too easily, then there is a reason. Great observation!
Based on the guidelines as Doc read straight from HD...what you were told would be incorrect. Your dealer does not have to do the work for your warranty to remain intact....this would depend on the work you are having done of course. As Doc stated it, has also been my understanding of the ruling.
@@KevinBaxter After my 1000 mile check, I went straight to Amsoil using their special blends for primary, tranny and engine. My dealer did tell me when I bought the bike I should keep the HD oil in the bike at least until the warrantee ran out. Well, I new he was full of it as I too have read the fed law. I have used Amsoil for the past 20 years and will continue to do so. Thanks for the response to my post. Jerry from SC
Dealerships used to be able to cover their customers before Harley was busted by the EPA. The restructure made digital tech contact corporate if the tune was anything but Harley. The red screen he spoke of is really what happens. The dealership is at a disadvantage when a warranty claim is filed on a red screened bike. I should add using Harley tuners will not cause a red screen, as everyone knows the parameters of Harley tuners are within the good graces of the EPA making them marginal at best compared to the aftermarket.
I've always enjoyed both your videos, very informative and easy to understand. Each of you have a area where we as consumers gain insight, be dealer or independent, and I appreciate that you two give of your time and knowledge.
One of …I think the major differences in reference to Harley oem parts and aftermarket parts is machinists tools and knowledge with such. Many of the major aftermarket harley parts if examined and inspected With machinist tools have decent to poor tolerances…cylinder to piston clearance as examples…harley will stand behind their parts whereas an aftermarket company typically won’t, so the independent dealer needs to inorder to compete with Harley. The independent dealer is going to have the machinists approach to his builds where as Harley dealers for most part use what’s sent and in the box, if parts are out of specs, harley mech falls back on company…. Independent dealer narrows this margin of error by being sure all parts being used are in proper tolerances, he don’t have a company to fall back on, for most part let’s say, but his reputation. S&S, Jim’s, Woods, Fueling, andrews, etc…all have something to advance Harley or at least should be able to but yet these companies have faults too…bottom line is this… the man building the bike or doing the work…if he is measuring all parts, putting together correctly in tolerances, the product will be good because he fishes out potential problems as he is placing parts together…attention to entire detail is key! A true balanced and blueprinted motor takes a good brain not so much as brand, good brains determine the brand! Now to spend 35,000.00 on a Harley-Davidson and then spend another 10,000.00 on motor mods at independent dealer to me seems very foolish…take the 45,000.00 and have a bike built to your desire: yet this is a popular move with HD owners today, which money is never ever made back when sold, big loss of cash! But to each his own… I’ve often wondered how that move happens?
This is for Doc!! You said! "Harley Stand by Their Product" I live in the UK! I Bought a 2016 FXDLS 110cu recently, I'm the 3rd owner 7100miles (I did buy it privately) it had a transferable warranty! It was suffering a lot of oil dripping from the air filter?!! To cut a long story short On inspection (a tear down) it was found that the rear cylinder had not had the oil drain holes drilled, from manufacture!!!! The Warranty people say it's not their problem it's a manufacturing problem. Harley UK says it's between me and the dealership! I didn't buy it from a dealership?! So, at the moment I have a big bill to put right what Harley got wrong at manufacture!! This fault in manufacture would certainly cause injury and possibly a death due to oil spewing onto the rear tire also the rear brake rotor!! Do you have any advice as to how I can contact Harley Davidson directly to have them reimburse me the money to rectify their manufacturing issue. I Know that Legally if a manufacturing issue that may cause "Injury or Death!" That, the Manufacturing Company could be forced to do a product recall!! I'm certain they would rather reimburse me the relatively small cost of putting my manufacturing problem right than the massive expense of a recall how many 2016-2017 FXDLS 110ci are there in the world? you can message me ronnie@llanycefnforge.eclipse.co.uk That includes Harley Davison worldwide if they read this!
When I was working at an HD dealer in Colorado Springs, we received a case of HD oil. The case was marked HD, had bar and shield logos all over it. When we opened the case all the quarts of oil were Kendal in their factory bottles. HD has always screwed their customers by putting a bar and shield on a product and selling it for 40% more. Can HD even put a "Made in America" sticker on the bikes anymore? Hell over half the product content is made offshore, even motors made in India.
I love the fact that you two are collaborating. My only peeve, is when you guys say, “I’m not naming names, but…”. I understand you are trying to avoid any slander, but it does no good to any of your listeners NOT to identify particular manufacturers and their defects. You were talking about a certain “big name” oil brand, but wouldn’t identify it. Was it Mobil One? I used that oil exclusively, and if theirs a reason I shouldn’t be using it, I want to know.
...the agreement has clarified... In a nutshell, harley's warranty was worded in a way that could possibly make owners think they can only use Harley parts or the warrant would be voided. FTC said, dont indicate that, and tell owners straight up what the law is.
I’ve just watched part 3 and I appreciate the information and both of you guys taking the time…. My 2019 Ultra Limited only has around 8,800 miles…. I added a HARLEY DAVIDSON detatchable docking hardware kit to be able to remove the tour -pack when not needed…. I installed this myself…. Was easy enough to do…. Was careful and very pleased with the end result…. When waxing the tour pack a few days ago…. I’ve noticed a crack around the hole where the wiring harness at the rubber gromet where the harness comes out of the tour pack ( not near the mounting plate I installed) … the four mounting bolts were carefully torqued and not over tightened…. I’m sure I’d need to take it to a dealership but I haven’t actually installed this tour pack since I removed it and added the docking kit….. I’m guessing since I installed this myself the bottom of my tour pack would not be covered under any warranty 😢…. It still seems to be useable…. But I I guess just the fact of knowing it’s there and this is a 30k motorcycle….. I know this is a very long comment lol but any advice 🤷🏻♂️… 😅 enjoyed your video and thanks again 👍
I would like to commend and Thank You both for all the info that y'all are sharing on this set of videos and all of the ones that you have done in the past on you're own channels. OK here one for you to mull over... I have a 2010 w. over 100K miles and I wouldn't hesitate taking on a cross country trip, it's showing some carbon blow by from the rings in the oil. I'm not one who really cares about building a monster bike but I do want long term reliability and able to have a issue solved at a HD dealer if out 1500 miles away from home.... what's the difference/issue/concern between a HD long block (comes w/a warr) vs a indy rebuild??? TY!!!
I still can't understand how a tmax broke my transmission in a 17 ultra??? Warranty voided and I paid for the baker dd7. Since traded it off, happy w my 20 but went aftermarket warranty now!! Met doc on way back from Florida, very thankful for his customer service even during c19, had to talk outside!! Ride safe
Thanks guys. That was a really good interaction with a HDMC service professional and an independent after market professional. We are fortunate to have your knowledge and experience in the community. The FTC warranty and HDMC was something some dealerships could tell someone who didn’t know any better. It’s sad because warranty work is covered by the company, not the dealership. So, they lost customers trust and the word kinda spread that you would void your warranty.. You are right, HDMC position hasn’t changed it’s just how some dealerships dealt with it…. Now the good stuff, which oil does Kevin use on most of his builds? Doc says to stick with Harley brand, uuumm!, yes his hands are tied…..
Me listening about warranties: hmmm very insightful, very engaging. Also me: *yeets my 25 year old sportster’s exhaust, intake, and carb into the trash in favor of S&S and then takes it off roading*
I got a couple of questions for yall. 19 FLDE. This morning my 45 minute ride to work in 27 degrees was chilly. My oil temp never got above 150. Is it advisable as on my diesel truck to block off the oil coolermtonallow the oil to come to temperature? Also why did the exceptable oil consumption and leak down rates have gone so high from the TC to the M8? I think 1qt per 1000 miles oil consumption as well as 25% leak down rates within the 2 year warranty period to be very excessive
I look forward to more in the future. I learn so much from both of you and have the utmost respect for you both! You can talk about the 2019 and up Tri Glide also...))))))
It's a paper tiger win for us consumers. The motor company will continue to deny warranty claims just like always. Time will certainly tell. You either keep it stock or modify through your selling dealer with their grace or swim upstream.
Kevin and Doc, Thanks so much for giving even more of your time to try and educate. It is much appreciated by many I'm sure. You two can sit down and talk about most anything and I will listen so yeah, if y'all wanna do more content together, then by all means, have at it. I think a lot of folks feel their hands are tied as to what can be done if they own a bike with a warranty. Maybe you could do a segment on maximizing the performance of an H-D engine while staying within the parameters set forth to not void their warranty. If there aren't many options, then that may warrant another whole discussion.
We need 2 use vtwin specific oil in our engines. I prefer 2 change at 2500 miles, its easy 2 do. I like a flo oil filter to makes the bike run 10° cooler...
Good stuff enjoy the vids. I have been subscribed to both channels for a long time. Bought my 1st Harley in 2016. 07 fxdl and learned a lot from u guys.
I've been watching you guys independently for a long time, the collaboration is top-notch and much appreciated.
i've been watching both for years also and couldn't agree more. great job
I had an issue with a brand new low rider ST. Had the same aftermarket service plan that kevin is talking about.. from day 1. 3 days after having my bike, i installed a stage 1 with a powervision tune. About a week later when i really started riding it, the bike had really bad excessive blowby. Like I lost a qt of oil in 2 days. Dealership was not educated in how this warranty "voiding" thing actually works (like doc just explained here in the video) and had told me my warranty was void.
Rather than fight with the dealership and harley on it, i had submitted the claim thru the aftermarket service plan, i was able to take it to my mechanic (non-dealer) and get the issue fixed (loose piston oilers), along with a big bored kit and many other upgrades installed.
Now bike runs great, still has less than 1500 miles on it and is fully covered (including aftermarket upgraded parts) regarding warranty until 2026.
However, had I not purchased the Aftermarket ESP, This would have escalated with Harley. Piston oilers not being torqued down properly from the factory was proof that the failure had absolutely nothing to do with the tuner.
The education from this video needs to be spread to other dealerships because that is where the incorrect information comes from regarding voiding warranties.
I love my FLSTCI 2004, but I will never understand how a company like HD can build a V Twin motor, basically the same as it was 100+ years ago, and still not get it right! Cam chain tensioners getting chewed... I think Kevin would justify a position on the board of HD!
Great video Kevin, Doc
Thank you 👍
The reason for the class action lawsuit was bc some dealerships were denying claims for frivolous reasons. Examples of slip ons, oil changes… HD was known for being ridiculous, especially compared to other manufacturers. The warranty/paperwork hasn’t changed, it forced HD to abide by the law.
I question if they will change their practice at all.
Let’s talk about the motor oil. Harley’s syn3 motor oil does not show any oil rating that it meets. There is no JASO class rating on their oils. A JASO rating is not a trade secret it is a classification set forth by the industry. There is no way I would an oil that does not show a rating on it.
I have to agree with you sir. One has to believe that it is rated and in line with their specs...i guess I just wanna see it.
Lab test show it’s not that great, just pushed by the manufacturer, well the manufacturer that subcontracts out the manufacturing of the oil.
Sunflower oil Is probably fine for these engines, thats why i guess.
Mobil 1 synthetic 20\50 motorcycle oil
Well I watched a video by Kevin on oils, synthetic vs conventional. He takes a similar stance and said he doesn’t trust or use an oil that doesn’t show its ratings/classification. If I recall correctly he said he does not use the (H-D) manufacturers oil for that reason. It appeared (he did not mention it by name) that he uses Amsoil. Disappointed he didn’t say in this video what he said in the other regarding H-D engine oil.
All this depended on the dealer you deal with. I've ran Mobil 1 15w-50 Syn in my 95 Heritage (in the motor) since 20,000 miles. Change oil every 2500 miles. Got 97,500 miles now. Never been into the motor.
bought my bike new in 05. I bought a 7yr warranty. the harely shop said I should do this this and this. tuner, true duals, big bore kit, port the heads. I wanted geared cams. dealer says we will void your warranty if go geared cams. my motor went south, they threw a bunch junk into my motor. wouldn't deal help me any longer. I paid another 9k out pocket have my motor rebuilt. I would not trust anything a harley dealership ever says. you can call my attitude anything you want. Harley dealerships are the lowest.
Most dealerships are out for profit period. Some squeeze every damn nickel even when it's obviously larceny. I do most of my own maintenance and use a locally owned shop for anything else. I have had to go for digital tech updates but they are free or 30 bucks and no one is touching the motor.
I've leaned 2 avoid stealerships as much as possible...
I absolutely love and trust Doc and have been lucky enough to talk to him in person for a few short minutes between races, I’ve watched a couple of your joint videos and really like the fact that instead of putting on the gloves and duking it out you guys work together for a common cause !
Thanks Doc... Thanks Kevin, much appreciated.
The big issue here is that H-D has hopped into bed with the EPA, and is betraying their customers. If you buy a new H-D, it is going to sound like shit, plain and simple. And H-D DOES NOT make any exhaust that will make it sound like a Harley is supposed to sound like. So you have no choice but to get an aftermarket exhaust to make your H-D motorcycle sound like a Harley. I mean, that sound is a huge part of why someone buys a Harley to begin with. Remember when H-D actually tried to trademark the sound of their bikes? The problem is, H-D motorcycles are already set too lean from the factory, which is why they run way too hot even completely stock. When you install an aftermarket exhaust that makes you bike sound like it should, you have no choice but to retune it for that exhaust. And H-D does not make anything that will get the air/fuel mixture rich enough, because of their illicit affair with the EPA. So to avoid destroying their engine, the owner/rider has no choice but to go with an aftermarket tuner, and aftermarket O2 sensors to get their air/fuel mixture to the point where it won't destroy their engine, and doing so will likely void their warranty.
Fortunately this does not affect me, as I only own and ride older carbureted EVO engine Harleys. I have owned seven Harleys during the past 20 years, after getting my first one, a 1989 FXRS Low Rider in 2003. I still have that one, and will never get rid of it. I also currently own two Sportsters. All three of my Harleys have aftermarket exhausts and modified carburetors, the '89 Low Rider has an S&S carburetor. H-D has basically done away with the reason to buy a new H-D bike. Most people including myself buy and ride H-D motorcycles because of the feel and sound. H-D got rid of the sound a long time ago, and has now made it impossible for someone buying a new H-D to get that sound back without voiding the warranty. And they got rid of the feel with the horrible M8 engine. One H-D mechanic told me the balancers could be removed from the M8 to get the feel back, another told me that they could not, that the engine was not designed to run without the balancers and would destroy itself if they were removed. So new H-D bikes no longer have the Harley sound or feel. And attempting to get it back will void your warranty and possibly destroy the bike. So now what is the reason to buy a new H-D bike for way more $$$ than some other brand, if they no longer have the characteristics that made people want them to begin with? By bowing to the EPA and not supporting their customers, H-D has put the noose around their neck. This VIN block thing was the result of a between the sheets agreement between H-D and the EPA. And hopefully H-D pays dearly for it.
All of us that grew up riding these bikes have watched it go down just as you stated. Without a cam, air filter, slip ons and a tune there is no Harley sound or feel reminiscent of the eighties, nineties and even early two thousands. You speak for many of us. Well done sir!!
Rotella t6 15w-40 is jaso/jaso2 rated oil. I would be more confident running this in all three holes than the harley brand oil.
Really to the average consumer the warranty is crap. Two years unlimited mileage. Well in nw ohio where you got winter and in summer you work your ass off you don't put alot of miles on your bike . So in two short little seasons you got no warranty anyways ..so why even talk warrantys
Love this thanks
The oil I liked to run recommended by Kevin was Amsoil yes I’d order Three different types of Amsoil for my bikes
Right there with you.
Way too many people I know had trashed twin cams because of crappy tentioners that Harley ignored.
Great content and you two are a wealth of knowledge, keep the collaboration coming. I think a live conversation would be great.
Iv always use diesel oil shell Rotella 15x40 no problem change ever 1500 miles I been a Ford linc mechanic for 20 yrs
Usually an aftermarket part is a better one than what Harley offers.
Thanks for doing this series. And I look forward to more in the future. I learn so much from both of you and have the up most respect for you both!
Really good series. Been watching you guys independently for a lot of years. I have been riding many many years but in 2022 I bought a new streetglide special. I have to put in 5000 miles on this bike. The catalytic converter is just too hot so I put a full sack MX header with kromewerks and a stage two using power vision tuner. I’m very interested to know what I still retain in my warranty and what I will be responsible with mechanical issues down the road and you answered a lot of my questions both of you have, and thank you again.
Oil is a big deal. If the oil is made to a specific standard or meets an advertised specification it should not void the warranty. I would argue that HD is a "cost conscious" manufacturer which means they too buy from "cheapest" supplier that can supply an oil to a specification or standard. So oil like Mobil synthetic for Motorcycles should not even be in question.
Love this series with Doc Harley
My two favourite motorcycle people together, fantastic content as always gentlemen, looking forward to more of your collaborations!! Thank you.
Oil... Oil is always one of the biggest discussions on the internet. I hear so many people put down Syn3, saying, Harley Davidson doesn't make their own oil. Of course they don't. Harley Davidson is a motorcycle manufacturer, not an oil company. The OIL company that supplies the Harley Davidson branded oils, makes it to Harley Davidsons specifications. Harley Davidson isn't going to source the cheapest oil available either. Why would a manufacture, who offers and backs a warranty on their motorcycles want cheap oil poured into the very engines, transmissions and primary drives that they warranty? That would be like shooting yourself in the foot. Then there are the people that say synthetic oil thins out when it gets hot and that is why you should use "Dino" oil. Well, the base of most synthetic oil is "Dino" oil. Multi-viscosity Dino oil has additives added to it to make it act like synthetic oil without those same additives. The additives in Dino oil is what helps make it a multi-viscosity oil, helping it to flow better at lower temperatures and making it thicker at higher temperatures. Over time, the additives in Dino oil will break down and vaporize, returning the oil to it's original state. Remember, full synthetic doesn't have those particular additives and should not have a change in it's viscosit; although, they can become thicker with the amount of contaminates present in the oil. Then there are the guys who swear by a brand of oil that drains out as clean as when they put it in. That right there should tell you, the oil is NOT doing its job. The 3 main functions of oil is, lubrication, cooling and trapping and suspending contaminates in your engine, caused from combustion byproducts. This is what keeps the inside of your engine clean and sludge free. Oil also prevents corrosion and oxidation within the engine. I have heard people go as far as saying Syn3 and HD 360 is junk oil because it doesn't have the API Service Doughnut. Well, Harley Davidson oil is made for Harley Davidson's, not Hondas, Kawasaki's or any other manufacture's motorcycles. That is why there is no need for the API Service Doughnut. I'm glad Kevin brought up using oil made for diesel engines if you are in a bind and need oil. That is right in your owner's manual. A service rating that starts with a 'C" means compression ignition engine, as in a diesel engine. Anything with a service rating that starts with an 'S' means spark ignition engine, gasoline engine. Some oils will be rated for both C & S applications. What you need to pay attention to is, the letters and numbers that come after the 'C', again, check your owner's manual. If you really want to know how well your oil of choice is performing in your motorcycle, send a sample to an independent lab for analysis. I use Blackstone-labs. They will give you a breakdown of all the wear metals in your oil and compare it with average wear metals in similar engines with the same miles on them. They will check for coolants and water, like if you have a twin cooled Harley Davidson. They will let you know how well your oil filter and air filter are performing. They will tell you if the oil viscosity is what it should be. The analysis will tell you if you have fuel in your oil. They will give you a breakdown of every element in your oil. Let's say you have a high chromium and iron levels showing up in your oil. Well, that should tell you that your piston rings and cylinders are wearing more than they should be. An oil analysis is like getting a checkup for your engine.
Ams oil can't be beat.
Kevin, I was surprised to see you doing these videos with Doc Harley! I bought all my parts from you on my TC build & I met Mike at Low Country when I rode down there. Two very different views coming together. Love it! Thanks for the great content. 👍
Doc is a great fella. Very like minded. Thanks!
This info may not be new, or a change to the warranty, but it must come as news to some HD dealers otherwise the FTC never would have had cause to rule. Somebody, or many somebody's must have been getting told, either at the dealerships or in print from the motor company, that the aftermarket parts would void the warranty. Plus, certain companies wanting to market to HD customers had a vested interest in dispelling this common misconception, no matter how it originated.
I agree with you completely sir.
Years ago an independent laboratory did a test on all major oils. Harley Davidson oil was at the bottom end of the list. I like Red Line but my dealer only has Harley products.
Great video guys...I watch Doc each week.....BUT.....Harley Davidson is at the top of the ladder in motorcycles,YET it is at the bottom when it comes to WARRANTY....Honda,Yamaha,Kawasaki offer at least 3 year some more of warranty.....OIL Harley don't make any oil,they speck it from whomever is the cheapest!!!!lowest bidder if u will...Lastly Harley's front office has NO MOTORCYCLE people in it!!!! If Harley wants to lead then lead it must in all catagories!!!!
Harley-Davidson does not own the refinery where the lubrication oil is made. The MoCo works with these refineries and the engineers to develop specific additive packages to meet the needs of there purpose. This is the reason there is no specific API classification on there products. It is only specified for use in Harley Davidson products. There is also products from major oil companies that can meet the needs of Harley. I have used these in the products in the past and will continue to use them in the future. Thanks to Doc' & Kevin for there comments and help in educating us.
The more likely reason for not having an API classification is to obfuscate the actual properties of the oil so people will be induced to use HD oil out of ignorance and fear. If the oil can meet API and JASO certification requirements then it should be on the label. While both processes take a bit of time and money, last I heard HD has plenty of both.
Gloria Tramontin Struck is a very unique person. I had the pleasure of meeting her at a show a few years ago. She's 97 years old now.
What about dealers not selling parts after 1995 ?! for their marketing being in their roots, Taiwan 🇹🇼 Ted V Twin MFG seems like it cares for the brand a lot more than the ghost 👻 ship of the brand that they say exists.
Best oil is 20-50 No mater the brand name , No oil your not going far .
Back in my Evo days we changed it every thousand miles with the cheapest 20w50 and a Toyota 4cyl pick up truck filter, it was slightly longer but it worked. You comment flooded a bunch of memories.
Harley warranty is useless. I will never buy a bike or a warranty from them again. It’s the worst motor company I have ever dealt with.
I will be looking into men like Kevin’s shop to build my bike next time.
Great job Gentlemen I love what you guys are doing,My question is I have a 21 flhxs each time I service my primary oil the chain is tight like a quitar string I have a hd 5 year extended warrantee I would love to install the baker manual tensioner.But if I have a compensator problem or a main bearing clutch hub bearing ETC... problem I'm concerned they will void these parts cause of the tensioner. I like 5/8 to 7/8 tension not a quitar string.
Hi Doc , im in Japan, The Tuners are not leagle here , I have changed the SE exhaust and air cleaner SE Extreem , these guys here don't have any knowledge in the harley , is the bike okay without tuning , since it is very EPA compliment no one does the tuning and it is as expensive as 1200usd to just tune the bike out side and we will loose warranty ?its a dam picklle , what should I do?
I love both of you when you say that HD builds great motorcycles I don't agree totally as they have now put in the m8 motor plastic intakes and lifter cuffs. I'm no expert but that seems like a very cheap move by them considering what these bikes cost. It's not correct that after we buy such an expensive new bike we need to upgrade to S&S or other high quality non plastic parts because truth is these intake manifolds and lifter cuffs will warp or melt in the long run. It's frigging plastic . Can you give a reasonable explanation why the Moco cheaped out on such important and crucial pieces? Thank you both🙏
Who makes Harley Davidson oil I don't know but I'll tell you Lucas oil is 10 times better than any Harley Davidson or Oliver maid and they still don't know and Lucas was cheaper than Harley Davidson oil weight cheaper
To be honest you need to admit Harley has screwed a lot of a new bike owners, just think about the 80s shovel heads!
Well said sir!!
Doc says HD does a lot of testing. Ok, how about those TC88 cam tensioners???????? Yea all due respect to Doc but he works for a stealership.
Do you know which oil company Harley Davidson buys its oil from ?
Not sure now, however years ago it was said it was Kendall.
Why didn't HD recall the really oil pump in the 2017-2019 M-8 engines? They did upgrade them in newer models but never admitted it. But thanks, because I decided to upgrade the pump and since you have it open might as well upgrade the cam and cam plate, lifters and a few more things. And boy o boy did it wake it up and will last a lot longer. Was worth it, glad I could afford it. Most can't after the cost of the bike itself!$$
The lowest bidder is awarded the contract in supplying Harley Davidson oil
Will you be asking Doc about endplay measurement being so much more than what it should be?
Iv riden harleys for 30+ years and still do. I live In England across the pond. I wish there was goog people like your selfs over hear. Not a harley but I also one 2022 a triumph rocket 3gt the main dealer for triumph didn't know how to service the bike. It came back to me with 1.8l of oil under the min mark.and the rong grade of oil. Just 🤡🤯 saying. Keep up the good work Kevin 👏 👍
If aftermarket warranties were better than Harley factory warranty what would that do, 🤔😎😬
The warranty Kevin spoke of is a new product administered by Autrella, it is superior to anything out there. There are some levels like any other but you can truly have a heavily modified bike with a tuner of your choice covered in full and the list of approved places to work on the bike is impressive. Once word begins to get out it will really take off.
I have my Sportster going on 23 years now and I have 400,000 miles on the original engine. It has been a phenomenally reliable motorcycle more than I ever could dream. That's probably why Harley canceled the evolution Sportster because it was too good.
Who is this company you work with for you aftermarket warranty deal? Or is it only through you? I’ve been shopping around for when my extended Harley warranty runs out. Both for normal stuff and also aftermarket goodies
Been subscribed to both ya guys for a long time. Gotta say love watching both of y’alls content. Look forward to possible Collabs in the future. Very educational for the end consumer. 👍
Been watching you two sense you started your discussions ,there great, keep up the good work,always intéresting,an lots of good infoe Thank You
Stop trying to us meter maids are great people, obviously neither of you 2 has ever dealt with an New York City parking enforcement officer.
My dealership on a new motorcycle would cover any aftermarket parts that they installed. As far as oil as long as you used the oil that Harley recommended as an alternative when you couldn’t get Harley oil they would cover it, or if the oil said for use in Harley Davidson motorcycles. No problem. But some dealerships suck and use it as a weapon to bend you over! They deserve what happened! This may clear it up for the Bad dealers? Maybe or maybe not, the courts will now be able to sort it out!
Uneducated salesman and service writers are partly to blame for voiding warranties. I went to MMI to become a Harley Tech. Been doing this for 16yrs now and I have heard it all from customers telling me the salesmen or the service writer told me their warranties are void because they didn't use our products which isn't always the case. Get with your service manager or a technician to find the right answer.
I feel like doc wants to explode with all his knowledge and aftermarket know how but he's restricted by the factory ,,,,every time he says something that's inappropriate to them that they don't like
He gets a hand slap and that's his livelihood
A word about factory train technicians, have you ever been to the zoo boys and girls seeing the train monkeys ,they still throw crap at you
I don’t see anything new here. I still believe Harley can deny warranty by associating cause by a third party part.
So a slip-on muffler air filter and flash tune and boom no powertrain warranty thus new Harleys aren't customizable at all
P.s champion makes Harley spark plugs
Harley-Davidsons oil is actually Citgo oil.
Ok now after looking at engine over haul is Harley oil been the best looking at the scoffing or wear
Both u guys are experts, impressive commentary 👏
Where is the best place to get the shop manual for repair? And best ones please
I have to disagree with the amount of testing the motor co does. Not possible to not know about the oil transfer issue with the M8. Not possible to not know that some piston jets were loose. Not knowing about cam chain tensioners failing on first gen twin cams. Not knowing about the studs pulling out of the case on early evo’s. I could go on.How many miles/hours could they be putting on a new engine design before it’s release? They either didn’t extensively test or they rolled the dice that the issue would not be a big enough issue. I believe that they use the customer as a Beta tester. I also believe that they know that many who buy their product, will not put enough miles on their bikes to have longevity concerns. That being said, I’ve loved riding and maintaining all of my Harley Davidsons. From my 1976 Sporty to my 2019 Ultra Limited. I just believe that their customers care more about the Motor Co than the Motor Co cares about us.
Im sorry, I dont belive the motor company has our best intrest at heart.
Have a look at HD new oil analysis. It's average at best, nothing special, doesn't make it bad. It's completely overpriced for what you get compared to the aftermarket.
Prepare Accordingly.
Yes I've enjoyed this series with you two. You both have a ton of knowledge
more often than not the customer has done something wrong in maintaining and or modifying their ride.
fair is fair. if you fuck up your bike, it's on you.
Harley's going to have to do some serious thinking after Kevin talking about aftermarket warranties
Or their prices are going to have to come way down for their stock week new products because everyone has to spend a fortune to make it right
That warranty is administered by Autrella. It is quite new in the marketplace. Harley cannot compete with it at any price.
Lots of good information! Thanks Doc & Kevin
It's hard not to smile at the end of this video. Enjoyed this series and other guests you have had in the past.
Hi guys, when we take apart the engine and replace some parts. When we reassemble the engine we are basically using used parts. I am not sure why no one is talking muck about dye penetrant testing. I would never reassemble with out testing thing like, heads, cases, covers, manifolds and of course, the new parts. I am sure you both have come across cracked parts new and used.
I value the videos and information you both share. Thank you!
Hi Tim. We have come across cracked parts but not very often and the signs are pretty obvious. Also, when a crack is observed, it becomes a known common problem typically. A couple of examples...valve guide bores, crack at valve seat. both will exhibit leeching oil and during disassembly, it's easily seen. You can also tell when pressing parts out. if they come out too easily, then there is a reason. Great observation!
On my new 2021 Trike I have done some modifications Stage I and my dealer tells me as long as they do the work, They will NOT void my warrantee.
Based on the guidelines as Doc read straight from HD...what you were told would be incorrect. Your dealer does not have to do the work for your warranty to remain intact....this would depend on the work you are having done of course. As Doc stated it, has also been my understanding of the ruling.
@@KevinBaxter After my 1000 mile check, I went straight to Amsoil using their special blends for primary, tranny and engine. My dealer did tell me when I bought the bike I should keep the HD oil in the bike at least until the warrantee ran out. Well, I new he was full of it as I too have read the fed law. I have used Amsoil for the past 20 years and will continue to do so. Thanks for the response to my post. Jerry from SC
Dealerships used to be able to cover their customers before Harley was busted by the EPA. The restructure made digital tech contact corporate if the tune was anything but Harley. The red screen he spoke of is really what happens. The dealership is at a disadvantage when a warranty claim is filed on a red screened bike. I should add using Harley tuners will not cause a red screen, as everyone knows the parameters of Harley tuners are within the good graces of the EPA making them marginal at best compared to the aftermarket.
You guys are awesome 👌
I've always enjoyed both your videos, very informative and easy to understand. Each of you have a area where we as consumers gain insight, be dealer or independent, and I appreciate that you two give of your time and knowledge.
One of …I think the major differences in reference to Harley oem parts and aftermarket parts is machinists tools and knowledge with such.
Many of the major aftermarket harley parts if examined and inspected With machinist tools have decent to poor tolerances…cylinder to piston clearance as examples…harley will stand behind their parts whereas an aftermarket company typically won’t, so the independent dealer needs to inorder to compete with Harley.
The independent dealer is going to have the machinists approach to his builds where as Harley dealers for most part use what’s sent and in the box, if parts are out of specs, harley mech falls back on company…. Independent dealer narrows this margin of error by being sure all parts being used are in proper tolerances, he don’t have a company to fall back on, for most part let’s say, but his reputation.
S&S, Jim’s, Woods, Fueling, andrews, etc…all have something to advance Harley or at least should be able to but yet these companies have faults too…bottom line is this… the man building the bike or doing the work…if he is measuring all parts, putting together correctly in tolerances, the product will be good because he fishes out potential problems as he is placing parts together…attention to entire detail is key! A true balanced and blueprinted motor takes a good brain not so much as brand, good brains determine the brand!
Now to spend 35,000.00 on a Harley-Davidson and then spend another 10,000.00 on motor mods at independent dealer to me seems very foolish…take the 45,000.00 and have a bike built to your desire: yet this is a popular move with HD owners today, which money is never ever made back when sold, big loss of cash! But to each his own… I’ve often wondered how that move happens?
Oil: I watched some Independent testing done on different oils. I now use AMSOIL full synthetic Oils for my Engine, Primary and Transmission.
This is for Doc!! You said! "Harley Stand by Their Product"
I live in the UK!
I Bought a 2016 FXDLS 110cu recently, I'm the 3rd owner 7100miles (I did buy it privately) it had a transferable warranty!
It was suffering a lot of oil dripping from the air filter?!!
To cut a long story short
On inspection (a tear down) it was found that the rear cylinder had not had the oil drain holes drilled, from manufacture!!!!
The Warranty people say it's not their problem it's a manufacturing problem. Harley UK says it's between me and the dealership!
I didn't buy it from a dealership?! So, at the moment I have a big bill to put right what Harley got wrong at manufacture!!
This fault in manufacture would certainly cause injury and possibly a death due to oil spewing onto the rear tire also the rear brake rotor!!
Do you have any advice as to how I can contact Harley Davidson directly to have them reimburse me the money to rectify their manufacturing issue.
I Know that Legally if a manufacturing issue that may cause "Injury or Death!" That, the Manufacturing Company could be forced to do a product recall!! I'm certain they would rather reimburse me the relatively small cost of putting my manufacturing problem right than the massive expense of a recall how many 2016-2017 FXDLS 110ci are there in the world?
you can message me ronnie@llanycefnforge.eclipse.co.uk That includes Harley Davison worldwide if they read this!
When I was working at an HD dealer in Colorado Springs, we received a case of HD oil. The case was marked HD, had bar and shield logos all over it. When we opened the case all the quarts of oil were Kendal in their factory bottles. HD has always screwed their customers by putting a bar and shield on a product and selling it for 40% more. Can HD even put a "Made in America" sticker on the bikes anymore? Hell over half the product content is made offshore, even motors made in India.
Outstanding series, gents! Thank you for such great educational - and FUN - content! ✌🤘
When I was working at HD dealership...we were told (from m/c) Quaker State Pennzoil furnished the oil.
I love the fact that you two are collaborating. My only peeve, is when you guys say, “I’m not naming names, but…”. I understand you are trying to avoid any slander, but it does no good to any of your listeners NOT to identify particular manufacturers and their defects. You were talking about a certain “big name” oil brand, but wouldn’t identify it. Was it Mobil One? I used that oil exclusively, and if theirs a reason I shouldn’t be using it, I want to know.
Absolutely. The best oils . Are the ones. 7100 motul. Betray. 85 90 . Trans . Drag special prim
I use Bel-ray conventional 20w50 with 6 ozs of zddp. Runs like a Swiss watch...
...the agreement has clarified... In a nutshell, harley's warranty was worded in a way that could possibly make owners think they can only use Harley parts or the warrant would be voided. FTC said, dont indicate that, and tell owners straight up what the law is.
I’ve just watched part 3 and I appreciate the information and both of you guys taking the time…. My 2019 Ultra Limited only has around 8,800 miles…. I added a HARLEY DAVIDSON detatchable docking hardware kit to be able to remove the tour -pack when not needed…. I installed this myself…. Was easy enough to do…. Was careful and very pleased with the end result…. When waxing the tour pack a few days ago…. I’ve noticed a crack around the hole where the wiring harness at the rubber gromet where the harness comes out of the tour pack ( not near the mounting plate I installed) … the four mounting bolts were carefully torqued and not over tightened…. I’m sure I’d need to take it to a dealership but I haven’t actually installed this tour pack since I removed it and added the docking kit….. I’m guessing since I installed this myself the bottom of my tour pack would not be covered under any warranty 😢…. It still seems to be useable…. But I I guess just the fact of knowing it’s there and this is a 30k motorcycle….. I know this is a very long comment lol but any advice 🤷🏻♂️… 😅 enjoyed your video and thanks again 👍
I would like to commend and Thank You both for all the info that y'all are sharing on this set of videos and all of the ones that you have done in the past on you're own channels. OK here one for you to mull over... I have a 2010 w. over 100K miles and I wouldn't hesitate taking on a cross country trip, it's showing some carbon blow by from the rings in the oil. I'm not one who really cares about building a monster bike but I do want long term reliability and able to have a issue solved at a HD dealer if out 1500 miles away from home.... what's the difference/issue/concern between a HD long block (comes w/a warr) vs a indy rebuild??? TY!!!
I still can't understand how a tmax broke my transmission in a 17 ultra??? Warranty voided and I paid for the baker dd7. Since traded it off, happy w my 20 but went aftermarket warranty now!! Met doc on way back from Florida, very thankful for his customer service even during c19, had to talk outside!! Ride safe
Just discovered you Kevin, been following Doc for a while now, great to see you together
Thanks guys. That was a really good interaction with a HDMC service professional and an independent after market professional. We are fortunate to have your knowledge and experience in the community. The FTC warranty and HDMC was something some dealerships could tell someone who didn’t know any better. It’s sad because warranty work is covered by the company, not the dealership. So, they lost customers trust and the word kinda spread that you would void your warranty.. You are right, HDMC position hasn’t changed it’s just how some dealerships dealt with it…. Now the good stuff, which oil does Kevin use on most of his builds? Doc says to stick with Harley brand, uuumm!, yes his hands are tied…..
Me listening about warranties: hmmm very insightful, very engaging.
Also me: *yeets my 25 year old sportster’s exhaust, intake, and carb into the trash in favor of S&S and then takes it off roading*
I got a couple of questions for yall. 19 FLDE. This morning my 45 minute ride to work in 27 degrees was chilly. My oil temp never got above 150. Is it advisable as on my diesel truck to block off the oil coolermtonallow the oil to come to temperature? Also why did the exceptable oil consumption and leak down rates have gone so high from the TC to the M8? I think 1qt per 1000 miles oil consumption as well as 25% leak down rates within the 2 year warranty period to be very excessive
I look forward to more in the future. I learn so much from both of you and have the utmost respect for you both! You can talk about the 2019 and up Tri Glide also...))))))
Thank you both ,this information is very helpful and educational
It's a paper tiger win for us consumers. The motor company will continue to deny warranty claims just like always. Time will certainly tell. You either keep it stock or modify through your selling dealer with their grace or swim upstream.
Kevin and Doc,
Thanks so much for giving even more of your time to try and educate. It is much appreciated by many I'm sure.
You two can sit down and talk about most anything and I will listen so yeah, if y'all wanna do more content together, then by all means, have at it.
I think a lot of folks feel their hands are tied as to what can be done if they own a bike with a warranty.
Maybe you could do a segment on maximizing the performance of an H-D engine while staying within the parameters set forth to not void their warranty. If there aren't many options, then that may warrant another whole discussion.
We need 2 use vtwin specific oil in our engines. I prefer 2 change at 2500 miles, its easy 2 do. I like a flo oil filter to makes the bike run 10° cooler...
Good stuff enjoy the vids. I have been subscribed to both channels for a long time. Bought my 1st Harley in 2016. 07 fxdl and learned a lot from u guys.