This is how a lot of bosses should react to a mistake, I've had bosses the flew off the handle and said some really horrible things to my self or others, but this guy held together and knew that mistakes happen, it's never on purpose, punishing people for making mistakes doesn't make things better it makes them worse, because then the people who saw what happened when some one made an honest mistake they will try their best to hide a mistake they have made rather than bring it forward.
Thanks. I used this video to learn some new words and make myself understand of English speech a little bit more better. I love such us videos with little moments from the films. It's very useful to people who learn English)
@@leftcoaster67 not just managers but also you need good people above them as well. If a good manager has a ahole manager themselves, they could be pressured to do dumb stuff like fire good people.
As an engineer you gotta always fess up to your mistakes, or your attempt at trying to save face could put lives in danger. That's why normally, at least so far with my limited experience, bosses and co-workers react better when you come to them and are honest about it in engineering.
@@toAdmiller American is never going to the moon, or anywhere, anymore. January 20th 2021 saw the end of the United states in a coup d'etat, and the installation of a chicom Vichy Government. Enjoy your communist slavery.
I worked in nuclear power. When we did a calculation, it was reviewed by another engineer who documented the questions/suggestions/mistakes found in a table which also documented how it was addressed. Then it was presented at a committee of peer engineers and managers who went through it page by page with more questions/suggestions/mistakes that had to be addressed. When these were addressed, the calculation was finally signed off and approved. I’m sure they used a similar process here but it would have been cumbersome to portray.
It's also possible that the redundant policy you speak of or something very similar existed - and what is portrayed in this scene never actually happened. Not everything in these movies and miniseries actually happened.
I went through a similar situation and my end result was I was let go....I tried to be honest and bring the errors I discovered to my supervisors and I was shown the door.
So wasn't there a scene with Tom Kelly in which an employee tells him the access hole in the LEM was round and the backpack oxygen tanks were square? I'm desperately looking for a clip of that scene, if I remember it right.
Thanks - I had thought that was the precursor to this scene. Have you seen a clip of that scene by any chance? I'm looking for it for work to show our engineers for how to bring mistakes up early.
Actually Tom Kelly said that to his engineers after Pete Conrad, and CC Williams (who were supposed to be on the first landing) had told Tom Kelly that at a meeting. (It didn't happen over the phone like mentioned on this show)
There's a scene in "Apollo 13" where they see that they had differently shaped air filters for the LEM and CSM and Kranz says, "Tell me this isn't a government run operation."
That's the difference between the US and USSR space programs. In the USSR if you made a mistake like that, you were disappeared, sent to the gulags, or worse. In the US, if you were conscientious and not just a perpetual screw-up, you got a second chance. Kelly knew that kid, if he was any kind of engineer, wasn't going to make that mistake, or one like it, again. He knew he'd just fostered a very meticulous engineer. Improving the art in engineering isn't always just about better technology.
While the general culture of the USSR government/military programs was...worse, this simply wasn't the case, at least so far as we know, with their space program. Granted, the Soviets were a lot less open about their space program (as evidenced by the fact that their entire large moon-mission rocket was kept completely secret until the 90s, and the Buran was not nearly as publicized as the Space Shuttle), but it really wasn't a toxic working culture. The Soviet space program was very successful up until it tried to reach for a manned mission to the moon, and it was probably the height of the Soviet Union's prestige and achievement.
"That's the difference between the US and USSR space programs." Tell that to Roger Boisjoly. He likened the way the Marshal Space Flight Center was run to a Gespato prison camp. The center director had NASA employees and even contractors horrified to speak up about defects or problems with the flight hardware over fear of losing their jobs and being permanently blacklisted from the engineering industry. When Morton Thiokol telephoned NASA that it was too cold to launch the Challenger, Boisjoly and his fellow engineers where essential told to sit down and shut up while their managers were pressured to change their minds to approve the launch. After blowing the whistle, Boisjoly and co were treated as traitors.
Not the same as being sent to the Gulags or having a 9 mm Makarov round inserted into the back of your head at 1030 fps. I'm well aware of Roger's story. I was there.
I've had about a dozen bosses over the years, and only a few were as good as this. The rest were there to play politics to climb the ladder, and to cover their own asses they would throw you under the bus without a second thought for their OWN mistake, let alone one you made.
LOL, this is the way things USED to be more or less. Today they would fire you and make you feel like a murderer. Then, replace you with H1B indian or chinese guy that can cover up their shoddy work. LOL.
Not true. Roger Boisjoly TRIED to stop Challenger from launching by presenting FACTS, and they canned him for trying to save 7 lives. It is the Morton Thiokol GM who should've been fired for CHANGING his initial NO-GO recommendation. They should've pushed the Challenger back another week, launching on a Friday. NASA stands for Never About Saving Astronauts
This is an example of the great leadership of Tom Kelly.
This is how a lot of bosses should react to a mistake, I've had bosses the flew off the handle and said some really horrible things to my self or others, but this guy held together and knew that mistakes happen, it's never on purpose, punishing people for making mistakes doesn't make things better it makes them worse, because then the people who saw what happened when some one made an honest mistake they will try their best to hide a mistake they have made rather than bring it forward.
Tom Kelly was this man. You couldn’t find a single person at Grumman who had a negative thing to say about him.
Sounds like North American could have used him, the way they messed up the command module
This is how I have always treated my employees. People make mistakes..we are after all...only human.
Good boss..great scene.
Wow, most every boss I've known has been the hinge scene from _Schindler's_
That's how I work with my guys, It's a learning experience, or as I like to put it, "process improvement".
Every supervisor should take notes notes from Tom Kelly!
Sounds like North American could have used him, the way they messed up the command module
This is how you get to the moon...and how you get to do all the great things.
Luis Soto because they are easy?
Now THAT is leadership and excellent management....sadly forgotten in this country today.... another reason to love Tom Kelly....
It used to be a meritocracy but later became gekkocrats
I wish I had a boss like Tom Kelly instead of the clowns I have had in the past.
This is a representative of your current boss, you’re fired!
I had One Manager that was like how Tom Kelly was portrayed, the rest were more like Walking, Talking, Rectums
I only watched this by accident at first but now I'm so glad I did.
Thanks. I used this video to learn some new words and make myself understand of English speech a little bit more better. I love such us videos with little moments from the films. It's very useful to people who learn English)
a boss like that doesn´t come around very often.
That's the sad part.
@@leftcoaster67 not just managers but also you need good people above them as well. If a good manager has a ahole manager themselves, they could be pressured to do dumb stuff like fire good people.
I would have thought they would have three pairs of eyes on every calculation
I nearly didn't watch this but now I'm so glad I did.
As an engineer you gotta always fess up to your mistakes, or your attempt at trying to save face could put lives in danger. That's why normally, at least so far with my limited experience, bosses and co-workers react better when you come to them and are honest about it in engineering.
I'm lucky that my current supervisor is like this, as well as our unit Director. If there's an issue, we review it and make changes going forward.
I wish we had the likes of Tom Kelly at the White House.
So now, you know how to vote...
@@toAdmiller American is never going to the moon, or anywhere, anymore. January 20th 2021 saw the end of the United states in a coup d'etat, and the installation of a chicom Vichy Government. Enjoy your communist slavery.
@@zackthebongripper7274 Dude...check the expiration date on your milk...
@@zackthebongripper7274 You fascist traitor. Who in the ever loving holy hell do you think you are spouting that right wing bullshit....
Thank goodness we have our current administration
I worked in nuclear power. When we did a calculation, it was reviewed by another engineer who documented the questions/suggestions/mistakes found in a table which also documented how it was addressed. Then it was presented at a committee of peer engineers and managers who went through it page by page with more questions/suggestions/mistakes that had to be addressed. When these were addressed, the calculation was finally signed off and approved. I’m sure they used a similar process here but it would have been cumbersome to portray.
@Kevin Balch; is it possible the process you're talking about hadn't been developed during this time period?
@@alexblake5369 - Good question.
It's also possible that the redundant policy you speak of or something very similar existed - and what is portrayed in this scene never actually happened. Not everything in these movies and miniseries actually happened.
I went through a similar situation and my end result was I was let go....I tried to be honest and bring the errors I discovered to my supervisors and I was shown the door.
Good boss. Don't shoot the messenger!
Here from school
So wasn't there a scene with Tom Kelly in which an employee tells him the access hole in the LEM was round and the backpack oxygen tanks were square? I'm desperately looking for a clip of that scene, if I remember it right.
Yes, all he says is "because of the square backpacks we'll have to put in a square hatch"
Thanks - I had thought that was the precursor to this scene. Have you seen a clip of that scene by any chance? I'm looking for it for work to show our engineers for how to bring mistakes up early.
Here you go: ruclips.net/video/spY_Z5RiTic/видео.html
Let me know if you want any other clips posted.
Actually Tom Kelly said that to his engineers after Pete Conrad, and CC Williams (who were supposed to be on the first landing) had told Tom Kelly that at a meeting. (It didn't happen over the phone like mentioned on this show)
There's a scene in "Apollo 13" where they see that they had differently shaped air filters for the LEM and CSM and Kranz says, "Tell me this isn't a government run operation."
That's the difference between the US and USSR space programs. In the USSR if you made a mistake like that, you were disappeared, sent to the gulags, or worse. In the US, if you were conscientious and not just a perpetual screw-up, you got a second chance. Kelly knew that kid, if he was any kind of engineer, wasn't going to make that mistake, or one like it, again. He knew he'd just fostered a very meticulous engineer. Improving the art in engineering isn't always just about better technology.
You have absolutely no fucking idea what are you talking about.
While the general culture of the USSR government/military programs was...worse, this simply wasn't the case, at least so far as we know, with their space program. Granted, the Soviets were a lot less open about their space program (as evidenced by the fact that their entire large moon-mission rocket was kept completely secret until the 90s, and the Buran was not nearly as publicized as the Space Shuttle), but it really wasn't a toxic working culture. The Soviet space program was very successful up until it tried to reach for a manned mission to the moon, and it was probably the height of the Soviet Union's prestige and achievement.
Very well stated.
"That's the difference between the US and USSR space programs."
Tell that to Roger Boisjoly. He likened the way the Marshal Space Flight Center was run to a Gespato prison camp. The center director had NASA employees and even contractors horrified to speak up about defects or problems with the flight hardware over fear of losing their jobs and being permanently blacklisted from the engineering industry. When Morton Thiokol telephoned NASA that it was too cold to launch the Challenger, Boisjoly and his fellow engineers where essential told to sit down and shut up while their managers were pressured to change their minds to approve the launch. After blowing the whistle, Boisjoly and co were treated as traitors.
Not the same as being sent to the Gulags or having a 9 mm Makarov round inserted into the back of your head at 1030 fps. I'm well aware of Roger's story. I was there.
I've had about a dozen bosses over the years, and only a few were as good as this. The rest were there to play politics to climb the ladder, and to cover their own asses they would throw you under the bus without a second thought for their OWN mistake, let alone one you made.
In other words, "I can't fire you or even punish you, even though I would really enjoy kicking your ass right now."
Not at ALL the words.
A true leader. Take note Willy ...
LOL, this is the way things USED to be more or less. Today they would fire you and make you feel like a murderer. Then, replace you with H1B indian or chinese guy that can cover up their shoddy work. LOL.
Not true. Roger Boisjoly TRIED to stop Challenger from launching by presenting FACTS, and they canned him for trying to save 7 lives. It is the Morton Thiokol GM who should've been fired for CHANGING his initial NO-GO recommendation. They should've pushed the Challenger back another week, launching on a Friday. NASA stands for Never About Saving Astronauts
This was back when character and honor actually mattered.
Well you know he is not a Democrat..
Jokes on you, fascist traitor. That's exactly what he was.
@@lancer525 If you project hard enough you'll get your wish eventually. Mind your words
Kennedy was
But not a progressive, and barely a liberal.
Who says?