I was doing my own stuff here at home for years and I am still very thankful when anyone can sit down and show you stuff and you are paying nothing for it ,do people really understand how important and helpful the RUclipsrs that teach us this stuff really are ? any little thing that you guys take the time out of your busy schedule to show us ,is so kind and helpful ,thanks again Sir.
Thank you very much! Ya you need to really like doing this, it's like at part time job except instead of getting paid you get comments. So nice ones like yours are truly appreciated! Thank you.
I youtube everything. It’s like paying yourself. Something breaks or you need to do some sort of construction around the house! I mean who can afford to pay out extras in this economy
Do not underestimate the importance of narration in your flight videos, that is what makes yours stand out. It does not matter what you talk about as long as you are talking during the flight, if you feel like you don't have anything to talk about during the flight just stick to the basics talk about what you were thinking about during the flight what you were doing how you were going about your strategy, ect. It doesn't really matter what you're saying just talk about the flight. I'm telling you that is the KEY! More uploads and narration and your channel will explode.
Thank you so much for the positive feed back. Lol, I've noticed that people watch the flight videos more at the parts with words. I really think you're right about your suggestion. I just recorded a flywoo explorer video with some spoken narration recorded while flying to go along with it. So my first try at that type is coming soon. To be honest speaking to the camera is a bit of a hurdle for me to overcome. I enjoy socializing and conversation but have always found both a little difficult. I've put off talking to or being on camera for the first 40 video's so probably time to try and step up rather than further procrastination. 😉
You are brave to show soldering on youtube. It really attracts the critics. Your method seems fine to me, and your iron seems to be adequate, though a higher wattage iron would be better. I use an 80W weller soldering station with a chisel tip, and crank it all the way up to 850F when soldering cells. I can tin the negative element in about 4 seconds, and the positive in about 2, so very little heat is transferred into the cell. But your iron and method seems fine. Your method of adding an extra layer of shrink wrap to the cells is probably fine, but I like to use 1mm thick double sided servo tape between the cells. Over time, vibration can cause abrasion and that can be VERY bad. The padded tape totally prevents any chance of that.
Will do! Working on the diy helical antenna video next. There are several other video's on youtube about making them but I'm going to try and get it simplified and as easy as possible.
Thank you so much for these recent build and setup videos. You are my long range FPV go to on RUclips. Look forward to more videos in the future and have fun out there flying.
Thank you very much! I ordered my VTC6 cells already last April after I saw your video and finally grew the balls to build my 4S pack today. Thank you very much for the great video!
Love the Aphex Twinish background music!! Goes perferct with your calm and humble persona! Really cool content and like other people says the best about you is your talking sharing your thoughs and experiences. A big hug and appreciation from another ramdon guy from the internet!!
Good tip about the little solder drops that splatter. Ive started using masking tape on my mosfets and components just to make me worry less about cleanup. Its just tape so its not heavy duty but it makes stray droplets easy to see.
One more thing that I can add is putting some more insulation between cells to prevent any possible shorting. I used double sided tape to keep them away in case of any damage on the plastic cover on the batteries.
They are already double wrapped in cell covers and with a bit of glue holding them together there is no rubbing between cells to wear away the wrapper. They are never crashed. If I crashed more I would use much more padding.
The wisdom being shared here and the meticulousness is astounding. Thank you for sharing this. I cannot wait to get started on my first drone thanks to the help of people like you. (although I probably stick to lipos at first)
Great tutorial, thanks for creating this! Something I do that may help keep the cells cooler is wrap them in a damp/wet cloth with rubber bands holding it in place. I use a second damp cloth to cool the top of the cell(s) as soon as the solder has solidified.
Your video has inspired me to do some research on battery welding machines. I was very surprised to find out they can be bought for as little at $25 US and really good ones around $50. I thought they were going to be Thousands. Thank you for the great detailed video and all the great long range action.
@@FalconRadFPV exactly. There are a couple for $25 where you provide your own battery or the ones that have their own battery start around $50. There are a bunch of reviews of all the different cheap ones and they all do insanely good on .1 - .15 material . In fact they are so strong that most of them are way to powerful on the strongest setting!! I totally thought it had to be one of those larger welders that are much more expensive. It's crazy how small they are . It looks like they are doing it by means of a really high c rating battery so it can dump a huge amount of current but they battery itself can be really small.
Oh, it’s foooaaammm.... when you were going through your setup, I thought you had a big pile of joints sitting on your desk. I was thinking, wow... this guy is thorough about his method! 😗💨
I use 14g for all the connections. At the amps being used for efficient long range flights 14g is plenty. I have never noticed hot battery leads on any of my packs. I've also never had one fail and I've made 20+ over the last three years.
Maybe I'll soon build up my gear and experience to do some of what you're doing with your long-range flights (i'm a newbie with a tiny whoop), love both the imposing and serene scenes of your films. Thanks.
Thanks, your video inspired me to build a 4-cell pack with the Molicel P42A 21700 4200mAh 45A batteries. Was going to try it on a 5 in freestyle frame that's been cruising at about 13 amps. Been flying with a 4 cell CHNL 2000 mah lipo that weighs 232 grams and getting about 8 1/2 minutes flight time. For a few ounces more in weight the molicel batteries will have double the capacity. In your video you like to use a Dremel tool to prep the cells for soldering. I was watching one of Pawel Spychalski videos. He likes to use an acid-based flux for tinning the batteries then rinses off the acid flux. Says there's no need for sanding. What special flux did you try using that you didn't trust. I ordered some Forney 61460 Acid Petro-Based Flux Paste that I was thinking about using to tin the batteries. Acid based flux is not to be used on electronics so I'm thinking your method might be better.
It's just to scrape off the coating that's put on the cell ends to prevent oxidation. You can use a little bit of sand paper even. I use the dremel (very carefully to only scrape the surface not remove material) since I make a bunch of batteries at the same time so scratching the ends on 50 cells goes faster that way. The acid Pawel talks about does the same thing but chemically rather than physically. With a 4s pack just make sure you watch the amp draw carefully!
Dammmm. I Was setting here in the morning, trying to get awake and ready for study on a zoom Meeting with a big Mug full of Coffee, and our Rc Content combinde With your ASMR voice and this relax music make me feel just fine. Thank you
It's a nice video, good explanation on how to solder the cells. That being said I stopped making packs with soldering a while back when I discovered the super cheap spot welders that work with 3-4S lipos. All that hassle with preparing the cells, heating them, using a proper tip for to keep the heat long enough so that the battery is not cooling it down too quickly is just not worth it. For about $15 + a properly rated 3S lipo (let's say 4Ah at 30C) you get perfect welds. Not to mention the side of the battery is flat, and it takes up a lot less space and is in fact lighter by a few grams.
Wow that cheap for one of those? Sometimes reply's get hard to find, can you do me a favor and leave another message recommending a 3 or 4s spot welder that worked well for you?
@@FalconRadFPV Sure! Here's the one I have pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001859927949.html You obviously need to be a tiny bit cautious because you're holding the two electrodes separately in your hands. The way I do it is I take the one electrode with my left hand (I'm right-handed), I hold the nickel with that electrode and then find a spot for the second electrode and once I press it firmly to the nickel it welds for 2-3 times and that's it. Then I repeat the process to get like 2-3 sets of welds (6 joint points in total per one side of the cell) and that's it.
Welding a 4 cell lion pack that I use mostly for my long range flights with wing-wing z84 takes me start to finish about 30 minutes with all the welding, soldering wires and everything. As a side note there are shrink wraps that work much better than the electrical tape. The finished product looks like off-the-shelf!
If you're experienced at soldering and careful about it, it's really not that difficult. (if you order cells get one really cheap one and just use it as a $4 (or whatever amount) practice one then dispose of it. After a practice one it should be pretty easy. (as long as you don't short anything out, I still get sloppy and get soldering iron marks on the perimeter every now and again. Which would short the cell if it didn't have the wrap on it, or if the iron was on it long enough to melt it away.)
great stuff, i had to use vinegar, (clear non brewed acetic acid) to stop the aluminium oxidizing and failing to accept solder, a quick wipe with vinegar immediately before soldering and it seems to work ok. also, no beginners should even use a multiboard to charge more than one battery at a time, get to know the batteries first, number them and monitor each cell to make sure its healthy, one bad cell can spoil a whole bunch of batteries when multi charging.
Hey awesome tip at the end there. Yes I've had a bad battery ruin a few other batteries from multi-charging. Now I just use 2 chargers and charge everything one at a time at 1c. I should have mentioned that I use my packs in pairs so I label them and never mix the pairs. The matching pair is always charged and stored at the exact same amps and volts.
43:23 - What is the name of this sticky tape for covering the battery? And on 39:51 - What is this soft material to protect the elements? What kind of solder is best for soldering contacts? 11:32 - What kind of solder is best for soldering contacts?
I prefer to use 63%tin/37%lead solder. I used a firm foam for padding on the ends. I just used foam from packaging for motors and cut it thin. Then I cover the ends and foam with electrical tape to protect and insulate. Then duct tape to finish off wrapping it.
I would rather ruin my li-ion cells and make it home (only ruin battery), instead of having a protected one just shut off mid flight over the river or something (lose quad, battery and gopro).
@@FalconRadFPV itll be a while before i learn all the stuff you know, but thats the goal, learn alot and help people with reliable portable power. i just gotta work my way up until they let me start making drone batteries on the weekend lol. I have no formal education but they hired me based on a good attitude and the drones i taught myself to build with help from guys like you. I dont mean to share my life story here, im just excited!
@@FalconRadFPV it happened! They let me build drone batteries! Underwater drones lastweek! Thats pretty cool but the reaaaaly cool thing the engineers are prototyping is 2x 17,000mah 6s lipos in series, 34,000 mah batteries for a flying drone. Remarkable, its huuuge and kinda scarey. Once testing is complete that what ill be building!
Yes either would be fine. Lipo's put out way more amps, they'll be good on any quad. The Li-ion cells get overheated and damaged when the amp draw is near to or exceeds the rated amp handling of the cell. Generally speaking li-ion batteries are better suited to quads with motors chosen for efficiency rather than power (low kv) and also flown the same way (mostly straight cruising not to hard on the throttle and mindful of constant amp draw) That said I have flown freestyle with Li-ion batteries but it would shorten the lifespan if done regularly.
I saw a Joshua Bardwell video where he explained that 14g was even ok for a freestyle quad. So I use 14g wire for the leads. I used 12g for the jumpers just to be safe since I wouldn't be able to tell if they got too hot or not once the pack is wrapped (and it's only an extra 1g or 2g since the jumpers are so short.
I was told, by a Lion battery dealer, that tin strips are resistive....and to use copper strips instead. That is, f you're soldering the packs. I have some sheets of .025" thick copper sheets that I can cut into 10mm strips. I think those a) will definitely not be resistive and b) make for a clean build, at the ends of the packs. Oh, and c) solder up very easily. Thanks for the tutorial.
Let me ask you a question. It's a 3 inch cine hoop. In the video, there are videos of making a pack with 4 lithium-ion 18650 batteries and flying it with an FPV long range. With excitement, I ordered batteries and made a pack. LGDBHG21865 3000mA. The problem is... When I hovered, the yaw tick symptom reappeared after it came up, and, after a few seconds, the low-voltage buzzer sounded and the aircraft sank. If I open it again, it opens again,,,,, repeat... So, I changed the low voltage warning in Beta Flight to 2.7V, and when I turned it on, there was no sound. If I take a break for a while, it will float again. But it sinks again... The battery is hot, and the voltage is 3.8V... TT I bought 40 tablets... but I can't use them all? How do people use? Batteries were also made by buying anything. Is my FC the problem? Or is there a special setting for Li-ion? FC is IFlight SucceX Mini F4 V3 Stack, and the manual says 2~6 Lipol. Do I have to use only Lipol? Can I change FC? Why is this happening? It's a waste of money/work time. I'm serious~~ Please advise.~~ TT
I try to mention in all of my li-ion videos that it is not for any build. A long range quad can use li-ion because it is designed for range not speed or agility. Because of this it uses low kv motors to save on battery, this means that as its fly's it only pulls about 15 amps. A good rule that I stick to is for your battery to be rated twice as high as your amp draw during regular forward flight. I can cruise at 60kph at 14 to 16 amps so I need a 30 amp rated battery to do so reliably. A cinewhoop is the opposite of a long range build. It is very inefficient and hard on batteries due to a high amp draw. To use those LG cells your cinewhoop would have to fly at about 10 amps, on 4s I'm guessing that it pulls double or triple that amount. The 4s packs I made in the video are to be used two at a time together for double the amp handling capacity. It was for 2507 1750kv on 4s, so a low kv setup even for my 7" Also high capacity (like 3000mah or more) li-ion cells do not handle amps nearly as well as ones with lower capacity. I have used 2600mah li-ion cells rated at 35 amps. I have never tried any 3000mah rated cells because they can not handle what I want to use them for. You need to take the time to get your current meter calibrated properly so you know how many amps your setup is pulling (while using a lipo). Then when you know how many amps it uses you can try to find a battery that will be able to manage that amount of amp draw. My guess is that a cinewhoop should only be run on lipo batteries because the amp draw will be too high.
I have sort of a similar setup to you. BH 1300kv motors on 7", but a lighter AUW. Right now I have it on a 6S 21700 with the same cells you used for you pack (Samsung 40T). I want a little more flight time but don't want to go crazy with the weight. Have you flown those motors on 5S? I'm thinking of doing a 5S2P pack with the 3000mah Sony 18650s for 6000mah total. It would be about 25 more watt hours than the 6S Samsung pack without being too much heavier. What do you think?
0:45 I'm looking for good batteries for this. Do I sum up the discharge current of each battery to get the total discharge current, or does a single battery need to have high enough rating?
A single cell needs to have a high enough rating. (unless you are going to run 2 packs in parallel, then the load will be shared over the 2 packs so you would add the amp handling (30A for example) together. 2 packs would handle 60A constant without burning up.) My 6s quad pulls an avg of 15 amps constant at a 60kph flat cruise, and same speed but going up a mountain is 20 to 30 amps constant. I use 2 packs each rated 35amps in parallel. So between the 2 packs I sometimes pull 30amps for 20 or 30 seconds or more and can hold it at 45amps for short punchouts. I know they can handle more than that but heat shortens the life and under these conditions they come down only a little warm. I can do close to the same with just 1 pack on my quad (I've tried it for some moderate freestyle flying before) but with just one pack on the pack is quite noticably warmer, not crazy hot, it could handle it but it's mah capacity would go down over time more quickly then the ones that get run only a little warm. There are 18650's and 21700's. I wouldn't trust buying any cells that you can't find a legit looking manufacturer data sheet for. It takes a little bit to understand how to compare the cells properly. It's worth the time though. 18650batterystore.com has data sheet links for all the big name brand cells.
@@FalconRadFPV thank you so much for the detailed answer! My 6s pulls around 10A at 60kph flat and around 15A while climbing mountains. GPS Rescue pulls 30A worst case while climbing (configurable I guess with the max throttle setting). 30A or 35A rating is probably minimum for me? It's really hard to find anything above 15A rating here in Iceland so I'll have to keep looking.
@@KristjanBroderLund You might be able to run a 20 amp rated cell and get a bit less power and it'll probably last 2 years instead of 3. But ya sounds like 30 would be best and then you should be all good running only one pack with your amps. I'm not sure if you can accept li-ion cells in your mail, restrictions vary be country, but if cells are hard to find or expensive it might be worth the shipping from 18650batterystore.com (if they'll ship to Iceland) since the cells are the lowest prices I've seen. The cells I use, the 35 amp molicel p26a 18650's go on daily deal sales every now and again for $3.99 US per cell. They were half the price of the best deal I found in Canada.
It's supposed to damage the chemistry. A spot welder is the recommended way to work with the cells. Dispite soldering I still get the rated capacity out of my cells, maybe they'll last a few cycles less, so 300 instead of 350 charges maybe. I won't notice the difference.
you build your packs the same way i do mine bro and ive never had a problem with any of mine ive been planing my next long range flight it was going to be yesturday but the wether closed in so i didnt go to far uk winters suck love your vids bro happy and safe flying
Great tutorial! I will start doing my own liion too but I will use a spot welder and clear heat shrink tube. It's funny because I have not much idea what I'm doing yet but I got the same Samsung 40T and Molicel batteries. I was also thinking about making a 3d printed tpu mount to protect and keep the batteries from touching each others.
I eventually converted the six 4s packs into four 6s packs. I tried 4s for a while because I think it should be more efficient then 6s. But I believe the reduction of amps with moving up to 6s improves the longevity of the li-ion cells more than 4s improves efficiency over 6s. This is all with a heavy battery and full size GoPro. It would be different with a very light quad since less weight = less amps in flight. So a very light weight quad could make use of 4s efficiency while getting nearly full capacity out of it's li-ion battery. I did get 1 or 2 km more range with the 4s 2507 1750kv setup but it could have also been the smaller motor size (I usually use 2806.5 1300kv 6s).
I’ll take a few 4s packs please! Great video! Under the battery wrapper has always been a mystery to me. I feel like I finally have an idea what’s going on! Looking forward to seeing flight time on those.
Thank you! Hopefully the weather gets better and I'll get a chance to get some flights in. It might be a month or two before I can get out in the mountains again, but there's a local place that I can do flight time and moderate range testing at. although I still have a couple of good mountain flights from a couple of months ago left to edit but those are of course with my 6s setup.
@@FalconRadFPV weather has me trapped inside too. I’ll take some 6s mountain videos when ever your ready! Whooping around my house only scratches the itch so much... Some of your LR mountain videos makes up the rest! Fingers crossed weather improves enough.
I'm not sure, I make sure both ends are a solid connection. I never pull enough current from them to get anywhere near desoldering the connections. My packs are just a little warm after a flight.
@FalconRad , did you already compared the Molice 18650 Vs. 21700 ? I'm currently using Molicel 18650 , 6S 2P , approx. weight is 580 Grams. I'm thinking to test the Molicel 21700 4S 2P , what do you think about ? weight difference should be around 50 Grams.
Yes I tried and found there was not much difference between them. About the same flight time and range. Maybe a 1or 1.5 km more with the 21700 4s2p over the 18650 6s2p. With 6s2p 21700 it flies longer for sure but it's really heavy.
@@FalconRadFPV Thank you , I had a big "Dilemma" about so ! I think I will still proceed with the 6S2P - 18650 Molicel P26A. In fact they have come out now with the P28A with 2800 mah maybe will be the best compromise !
No I never tried 4s3p. I flew the 4s2p for a while but ended up making them into 6s packs eventually. I think I needed more kv than the 1700kv motors that I was using, but my 6s setup just felt more responsive. It was probably the motor kv.
I use the battery packs with an fpv drone. The drone has electronics and firmware to fairly accurately track and display the current used by the motors. I just look at the OSD in my FPV goggles for the number of amps that are being drawn from the battery.
Sorry just noticing I may have misunderstood the question a little. I'm building a new quad (this week I think) and will be doing videos about the build as well as getting it setup for long range flights. Part of that will be a video about getting to know your batteries. I'll talk about getting the quad's current meter calibrated well so that we get accurate readings for amps drawn and mah consumed during flights. That will be several video's down the line though.
Hi Falcon ! What’s your target recharge voltage ? I read controversial opinions between 4.15v and 4.20v . I have home made liion pack and ready to fly liion packs . Sony VTC6 and Samsung 18650 specs usually are on the 4.2v side and you ?
Iusually charge up to 4.20v to get every mah I can. I think they will last longer if you only charge up to 4.1 or 4.15. There really isn't a big difference between 4.2 and 4.15 as far as mah count goes. On my 2600 mah 6s 18650 packs I charge them to 4.15 the night before then top them off to 4.2 an hour or two before using them. It only adds another 100 to 120 mah going from 4.15 to 4.2.
li-ion cells will be rated by amps that the cell can manage. Good li-ion cells are about 10c. The fewer cells used, genrally the higher the amp load. To run a quad on 3s li-ion you will need your quad to not be too heavy or the amp draw will be too high. If you are planning a 6 or 7 inch quad then it should be 21700 cells. If its for a 5.5 inch or smaller props you could probably use 18650 cells or 21700. Make sure reaserch the cells and look up reviews. Only the best li-ion cells are worth using for fpv quads.
So i don't have to use a bms kind of board inside that gets the power from a balancing charger ? I have seen there should be a pcb in some prebuild ones
I would skip the PCB and just charge them the same as a lipo. The BMS is used on li-ion batteries that are very low amp uses. It will interfere with amp draw on something like a drone. Same as how lipo batteries for drones do not have a BMS.
@@FalconRadFPV thanks for the answer, in that case it is easier to do and i don't have to wrap my mind for searching a suitable bms board as a balancing charger with li ion function will do. After more research, my awareness of how dangerous these cells can be has raised and i am more reserved to the idea of building such pack. Even if i will be using 12 cells for an 6s2p pack, just one failing is necessary to catch on fire and burn my whole drone to ground.. I was thinking to implement a small gauge wire as the connector between serial cells to act as a fuse as i have seen others do. There will be 6 pairs in series, each of 2 parallel cells connected together (a normal 6s2p setup) in this situation the balancing leads will be places at each series node as usual but now there will be 2 cells in parallel receiving that balanced charge and even if the groups of the pack will be balanced one against other, inside a parallel group how can i make sure the cells are behaving the same? i know i am supposed to use identical cells with save discharge rate and internal resistance but will they sustain in time and not charge/discharge one to the other? or i guess i am just sceptical, since so many have build huge packs wich consist of tens of cells connected in parallel and they are working
One of the drones I use them on (my RAD Li-ion) doesn't have a big enough top plate to carry a big 6s2p battery. I mount one on top and the other underneath. This keeps the overall length of the drone shorter which improves aerodynamic drag (for longer flight times) and keeps the battery weight more centralized.
I have some 6s P42A packs. I usually use them two at a time for extra long flights, but I have also used them one pack at a time. You just need to be thoughtful of your amp draw and make sure not to over do it, but they should work well.
@@FalconRadFPV Thanks man, love your videos, I just build an Aos 7 for Long Range but don’t like to pushed to hard, I fly just 10 minutes and land at 3,4v, I wanted to keep extra juice for a GPS rescue, very conservative I would say. Please keep coming more videos, regards from Bogota, this is my Aos 7 maiden video. ruclips.net/video/20ZS2uJkWDw/видео.html
I thought that going with the 21700 is the way to go as a good start and now I noticed that some are favoring the 18650 alongside the performance of the 21700 ! So what are your results and what you recommend for me ?
I prefer 2x 6s 18650 packs for long range. I'll use 2 x 6s 21700 packs for extra range. I don't fly much with just a single pack, not great if you get stuck fighting some wind. 2 packs gives better amp handling ability. 2x 18650s is 640g, 2x 21700 is about 940g
Nice video bro. I am very familiar with 5" freestyle but but i am quite new in the long range fpv. I know it is an old question and hope you don't mind. What is the differences between using the 18650/21700, and the normal Lipos with higher C numbers？ Thanks!
Higher C lipo's will usually be heavier. Although there aren't many lower C choices. When you get up to a 4000mah lipo 100c is more than you need for general long range flying. the 18650's are about 47g each and the 27100's are about 68g each. The the 21700 have higher capacities and some have higher amp ratings than the 18650's do. It's going to be about sorting out what amp draw you will be needing for your props, motors, flying style and weather you need extra power available to escape a strong wind that caches you off guard (it's a top of a mountain thing, not a worry anywhere else) My current quad uses about 15 + amps constant to fly out and back at 60kph. I sometimes need up to 70+ amps for pulling out of dives or fighting a strong wind. I like the li-ion rating to be close to double my needs. I use a 6s2p pack so shares the amperage between the 2p (basically 2 batteries combined together) The individual cells are rated at 35 amps constant and there two of them sharing the load. So at 70 amps I should be able top hold it for a while. I can pull more than 70 out of them though. I've hit over 100amps draw from my 6s2p li-ion pack with higher kv motors. You don't want them to be too hot when you land. It can be nicely warm but nowhere near uncomfortable to bare skin. A lipo takes the heat a bit better than a li-ion cell (generally speaking)
@@FalconRadFPV Ah that really helps a lot bro. your channel is what I have learned the most about LR FPV in the best way. And I got another question which you might be asked most about, is there any particular reason why you choose analog vtx instead of Digital? I am not sure if you tested DJI for your LR. Thanks bro!!
I have no experience with any EVE li-ion cells. But I have used the molicel brand a lot. They make a p26a and p28a that are 2600mah and 2800mah both are rated for 35 amps. My guess is that maybe the EVE cell might have a longer life span? just guessing, but anyway the molicel will last plenty long enough. I have two packs from 2 1/2 years ago and they still work fairly well. I just checked, they hold the mah count well even at 20 amp output but the cycle life is not that great, 60% after 300 cycles. Also they are not very good performers in the cold weather, only 80% capacity at 0 c. They are cheap though, $2 on sale right now but I still say you are better off spending $5 a cell on P28A's. It's $30 instead of $12 for one 6s pack but it's worth the extra money I think, you will get a noticeably shorter flight time with that EVE cell, my GUESS is about 25 to 30% less.
Hi! I think your video was very useful and informative and I would like to ask you a question. Do you recommend applying a BMS (Battery Management System) circuit board to my 6s 3400 mAh 18650 LiIon battery pack? Because i bought 6 pieces of 3400 mAh 18650 lion cells and wanted the workshop mechanist to weld them together for my drone and he said that he won't do it until i bring him a BMS circuit board. What do you recommend? Will it affect my flight? Anyway it's very cheap, about 3 bucks for one BMS board.
Unfortunately you can't use a BMS on a flight battery. At least not that I know of. Maybe there is one that only works for overcharge protection? But usually they come with over current protection (your quad will turn off when you go full throttle) and with low voltage protection (your quad will fall out of the sky if you get too low in the pack). For flight batteries the BMS is basically your charger. It knows not to over charge them because you set it yourself to 4.1v or 4.2v etc... but having overcurrent or low voltage protection will not work out well for a flight battery. Also it would be hard to find a BMS with a 20 or 30 amp over current limit. Maybe you could explain that you are going to use a charger that checks the balance of each cell (you need a balance lead on the pack of course!) so it would be safe. If you draw too much current or let the voltage get too low it will just sag and or be ruined, but very little chance of any danger.
3400 mah 18650 cells? How many amps are they rated for? How many amps does you quad pull in forward flight and in a short full throttle burst? Generally 18650 cells with over 3000 mah capacity will have a VERY LOW ability to handler current, maybe 5 or 10 amps max unless they are some kind of amazing new li-ion cell. I use 2600mah or 2800 mah 18650 cells rated for 25 or 35 amps constant.
@@FalconRadFPV Thank you very much for the explanation! You saved my quad and money. It was a big help. I'll do further more research on my drone to see how much amps it drains and how much my cells can put out. Thank you again! Subbed!
I just want to know that the li-on 18650 batteries are much cheaper than lipos but still most of the fpv racers uses lipo for fpv flying . So is there any difference between the two in terms of performance ?? Please let me know
Lipo batteries can put out way more amps more consistantly. Racing requires a lot of throttle work and is very hard on batteries. Roughly a lipo can handle about double the amp compared to a good li-ion cell. Compared to a mediocre li-ion cell a lipo can put out 10X or more amps. Racing and freestyle require lipo batteries, Li-ion is really only for long range or a long cruse at a reasonable pace.
Check my answer to your comment in the long range parts discussion video. No I'm not sure about where to buy them. I make all my own packs with cells bought from 18650batterystore.com is the US.
This morning im flying my 7inch with vtc5a 6s liion.. with my 5inch quad, i can fly it until 3v and always keeps the amp never above 15a, and i can land with cool battery. But with my 7inch, and yes the amp draw already calibrated, im testing the fligtime by flying around with low cruising amp.. around 7-13amp.. but why everytime i land at below 3.3v the battery gets hot.. not super hot.but more than warm. If i fly and land at 3,5-3,4 i can land with cool battery.. whats your experience with 1p liion pack? I dont want to build 2p.
flying my 7" with 6s1p 18650 the battery will get hotter than I like if I do freestyle type flying. If I just fly around gently at 50kph then the battery will be only a bit warm. But I use molicel cells which are rated a bit higher for amp draw.
@@FalconRadFPV if im now wrong vtc5a rated at 30-35a. i dont fly freestyle with my 7 inch, only cruise. but why if i land at 3.4 the liion pack still cold, but if i keep flying until 3-3.3v the pack will land warm. but if the pack keeps rising its temp become hot almost like my lipo if i do hard freestyle. but this didnt happen if i fly the liion pack with my 5 inch quad.
Hi seeing in the past you have used 2 4s lipos at ones, How many amps can you use on a 1500 mah 14.8 v lipo in series meaning using two 4s lipos at once. Is there a idot guide for this atall thanks if you can help me Pete.
Two 4s lipo's in series will make an 8s battery. It will handle the same amp rating as the batteries say on the wrapper and be 4.2v x 8. If two 4s packs are connected in parallel it makes a 4s battery that can handle twice the amp load that's written on the battery wrapper and has twice the mah capacity.
Sorry I haven't used any of those except the vtc6 which I wasn't impressed by. The only way to tell would be to compare equivalent data between the data sheets for each type. Some stores (like 18650batterystore.com) link to the manufacturer data sheet in the product description. You could also probably find them with a google search. You'll have to do it yourself though. It's probably 45 minutes of work. You want to look for how they perform under load. there should be a couple of graphs or charts showing performance under certain loads (amps) and sometimes temperatures. Just make sure you compare the same things together, like voltage performance between cells just make sure both were tested under the same load. It usually shows it for 1, 5, 10, 15 amps or something like that all on one chart. Good luck!
Thank you so much for all this insights! I am building one myself this week out of 18650s too. Do you reckon it's better to build an 4S or 5S to pair with 1800KV? It's going for an 7" build.
@@FalconRadFPV @Grim FPV my train of thought was that with a 5S landing voltage would be better landing as 3V P/Cell and current draw would be a bit less too during the flight making the cells happier. On the motors being 2507 1800KV maybe throttle limiting them would do the trick? Is that plausible?
@@Brunmed If you already have the motors then ya just throttle limit to suit you amp needs and use 5s if you like, could also allow for that little extra punch when you need it at the end of a dive or something. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with this but I think having the correct kv is better than throttle limiting. (again if you have the motors already just use them with a limit) as far as 3v/cell landing voltage, If going far out you don't need good thrust to just cruise back home. Out of interest I tried my 1300 kv motors with my new 4s battery. Even at 1kg all up with one 4s pack and a gopro the 1300kv motors with tri blade props were plenty of thrust for flying around moderately, couldn't do anything to aggressive or catch a dive with it but fly home and land no worries. I'm pretty sure 4s would be the way to go for getting better range and should be powerful enough for dives and heavy wind. Now all that said if you are using only one li-ion pack then maybe 5s and a throttle limit would make a more sense to get the amps a bit lower. You would want it to be 21700 cells (45 amp) then probably. If you were using dual packs in parallel then I wouldn't worry too much about 4s vs 5s amp draw. There are really a bunch of factors at play together in making the decision. Also the lighter the quad the lower the amp draw will be. If a quad were light enough 3s would even work with probably 1900kv and 7".
@@FalconRadFPV I guess I'll experiment first! I need to use a LiPo and study what amp draw it's using so that I'll build a Li-Ion pack with a good safe margin. Again thanks for your insights. I guess I'll use the 5S balance leads a still build a 4S. It has good punch on 4S and motors run cold all the time :)
Hi my friend. I think you're keeping iron too much on the battery surface when soldering. I counted 10 seconds! I've managed to solder it in 3 seconds maximum and quickly cool it down with alcohol-soaked fabric to keep everything as cold as possible.
Thanks for the tip. Yes my soldering iron is not very good, it always leaves me struggling with big jobs like this. I will be getting a new one at some point but, it's a pretty expensive hobby.
I use 6s2p 18650 with them at the moment. 6s1p would work with 21700 but you probably would want to use a throttle limit to go a bit easier on the amp draw. You would also need max amp handling in the 21700 cells. Something l9ike 35 to 45 constant amp rating. Most are 15 to 25 amp constant, but a few are rated higher. Go over manufacturer data sheets carefully to choose cells.
@@FalconRadFPV Thanks for your reply. I plan to use the Molicells which are rated for for 45A continuous, and according to specs the 1300kv motor will draw 44.4A at max, so I will be just under. I also plan on using these holders so I can swap them out and charge them individually: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310012917.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4c734c4dnc0aLg
18650batterystore.com they are in the state of Georgia. Best prices I have found. Even with the shipping cost, it's like half the price of trying to buy the cells in Canada where I live. $3.99 us vs like $12 CA for the exact same cells.
hi im wondering if there is much difference between hdo2 and orqa fpv. I mean in range there isnt rights, it just matters the antennas and the reciever right?. apart from that is there much difference?
It's a big and expensive decision. The short of it is that I think the HDO2 are supposed to look just a tiny bit better but they use the same screens as the orqa's so future firmware updates may be able to get it on par (although I hear it's really close already). The orqas are better as far as options and future proofing. I believe they have much more processing power on board than the hdo2's. The looooong answer is: fatshark said in interviews (before hdo2's or orqa's) that they were not going to make a higher resolution goggle because the cost of better screens was too much of a business investment to be viable. Then orqa announced they had a working prototype of the FPV.One's and then 6 months later fatshark came out with the hdo2's (a few months before orqa made it to market) I believe the attention orqa got for announcing a high res analog goggle made fatshark jealous and see the viability of the better screens. So not a fan of fatshark's business ethic. Also repeated requests from fatshark users (like simply adding a power button) were always ignored by fatshark for claims of not wanting to mess with a good design. Orqa on the other hand did the opposite, they asked what everyone wanted in a pair of fpv goggles and put as much as they could into them. Bardwell said it would be cool to record his voice while flying, a few months later orqa announced that the headphone jack would work for a headset with mic and now dvr could record your voice while flying. Fatshark does nothing like that. Botgrinder makes use of orqa's ability to live stream the goggle video, with his cell phone I think) Joshua Bardwell has done some video's about the VS decision. Lots of good info about orqa's and orqa's vs hod2. Links below: interview with orqa CEO: ruclips.net/video/Iagv45f-Tlo/видео.html orqa vs hdo2: ruclips.net/video/rWcTcIT5Vm4/видео.html best goggle 2021: ruclips.net/video/H7JKUMDe6kc/видео.html If you youtube search "hdo2 vs orqa" you will get some more video's with other perspectives of the same comparison. Good luck with your decision! (either way you'll get a really good pair of goggles)
I made a 7 inches today. Except for the battery and the gopro, it weighs 584g. All add up to 1353g. The motor used is RCINPOWER2806 1350kv. I don’t know the speed. I probably use 40 throttle to fly in the air and use a c6 6s6000mah battery. Flight time Only 17 minutes. What about your battery life and weight?
That is similar to my results. Also similar weights as well, my setup is 1330g all together. I get about 18 min if I fly a mountain and maybe 2 min more if it's flat terrain. I would think you might get a little more flight time though. How low did you go down with your battery voltage by the end? With my flight times that's if I use ALL of the battery. Do you have you current meter calibrated accurately? I always have the mah usage on in my OSD. Did you get 6000 mah or close to it out of your battery? (if you want to ask another question use a new comment, it's much easier to find than a reply)
@@FalconRadFPV I haven't tested it on the mountain yet. I think I can use the approximate throttle to simulate the flight time up the mountain, and finally try the ground flight. I can’t see the throttle display in the osd you are flying. How much throttle will you use when you go up the mountain?
Same way you do your lipos, just check if the li-ions charge to 4.15 or 4.2 volts and adjust your charger to what you need. Lipos and li-ion charge the same but li-ion just charge usually at a lower amperage.
1.3 kg all up including a hero 6, and I get 16 to 18 min but that also includes a 2km altitude gain (I always fly mountains) probably add 5 min without the 2km high mountain. Or about 10 or 11 min of light to medium freestlye type flying. Although it's not well suited for it with the heavy weight.
It's just a sheet of what I thought was just silicone, but it seems to hold a static charge so I'll swap it out for a cutting mat before starting to build a quad soon. I think supposed to be for kitchen use. I just liked how easy it was to clean and get hot glue off of it.
Hi bro.. this battery can make 3s?? I tried do 3s 18650 battery and i want fly with my quad wizard x220.. but, cannot fly.. why cannot fly ?? I should do the 4s battery? Why 3s cannot fly... Please answer my question. Tq
Yes a 4 cell would probably work better. But you would need VERY good 18650 cells to fly an avg 5" 4s quad on 4s 18650. A very good 35 amp constant rated 18650 would probably work. But 21700 cells would do better. Usually if some one were to try li-ion on a regular 5" quad it would be a 6s 1800kv build that they would run on 4s with li-ion for reduced power but longer flight time. Going from 4s to 3s is similar but I think to do that successfully the motor size, kv and amp tolerance of the li-ion cells all need to be just right. I wish I could tell you more. I haven't done any 3s long range testing, I might in the future. Good luck!
The p42a are rated at 35 amps constant I think. This and I've heard the samsung equivalent of this one both put out great amps. You still don't want to run them at 35amps constant, they would degrade much more quickly. Li-ion gets rated per cell, so with a 6s2p battery you could pull more amps. (I've pulled over 100 amps from my 6s2p 18650 battery, you don't want to do that very often though.)
Li-ion is a little bit lighter but a lipo has better current handling. I like li-ion for long range especially for the fire safety. Li-ion cells have to pass various crushing, banging and shaking etc... tests. A lipo on the other hand will burst into flames if it gets poked by a branch in just the right way. Li-ion in good for long range with lower amp use. Lipo's are great for racing, freestyle and mid range cruising.
@@Dreez oh ya, there is a big difference. Common one might be rated at 2 to 5 amps. High discharge ones are more like 15 to 35 amps. The ones I use are rated at 35 amps constant.
Yes but it just needs to be a 6 cell series connection instead of 4 cell. The balance plug is very similar but there would be 2 more wires in the middle for the extra 2 cells. You should be able to google search and find pictures of a 6 cell schematic for a li-ion pack.
Been there @@FalconRadFPV , The reason I asked is because I got the same cut finger. But mine got cut by a pinched pipe angle. 😆 LoL, In hindsight dumb move on my part too. Stay safe brother, love the content.
That really sucks about your antenna. 😟 I would try contacting TrueRC. I've read that the record for an X2-air is 10km with the vtx at 200mw and mine gives me clean video at over 8km distance. I'm sure if you tell them a Realacc patch is out performing your X2-air that they would help you get it sorted out. Sounds like there is something wrong with yours. Every time I've contacted them with antenna questions they have responded quite quickly and been helpful. Ya I would love to get a spot welder but I only have 2 long range quads at the moment both with substandard old parts. Both my q6 lite chargers are broken, and I'm trying to make a frame but can't afford to keep getting test versions cut. So a spot welder is WAY out of my minimal FPV budget but If I ever win the lottery, it's at the top of my list!
@@FalconRadFPV It was on 400mw :/ I will contact them thanks for your tipp :D Yes a spot welder is unfortunately quite expensive :( I wish you all the luck in the world for the lottery ;D
@@FalconRadFPV I contacted them and they responded quick. They said they will send me a new one. They have a great customer service :) I thought I have to make a video where they can see that it is not working correct but they just said after I told them that the Realacc outperform it they send me a new one
@@FalconRadFPV Update to the X2Air :D The new one arrived today and I tested it with a 4s VTC6 pack on the Flywoo Explorer. I flew out 8km and over 1,5km height with usable video on 400mw;D but then I was scared to lose it and turned arround xD when the quad came back the battery was still half full and I criused it arround with the same speed (50-60km/h) as before (on 55% throttle) and it flew insane 25km total before the battery was empty :O Total Flight time was 28 mins ;D That thing is crazy I love it :D
I was doing my own stuff here at home for years and I am still very thankful when anyone can sit down and show you stuff and you are paying nothing for it ,do people really understand how important and helpful the RUclipsrs that teach us this stuff really are ? any little thing that you guys take the time out of your busy schedule to show us ,is so kind and helpful ,thanks again Sir.
Thank you very much! Ya you need to really like doing this, it's like at part time job except instead of getting paid you get comments. So nice ones like yours are truly appreciated! Thank you.
I agree 100% , and l can say this gentleman is extremely intelligent.
@@FalconRadFPV,yup ,you are welcome Sir .
@@jhughes2286,yes he is .
I youtube everything. It’s like paying yourself. Something breaks or you need to do some sort of construction around the house! I mean who can afford to pay out extras in this economy
Do not underestimate the importance of narration in your flight videos, that is what makes yours stand out. It does not matter what you talk about as long as you are talking during the flight, if you feel like you don't have anything to talk about during the flight just stick to the basics talk about what you were thinking about during the flight what you were doing how you were going about your strategy, ect. It doesn't really matter what you're saying just talk about the flight. I'm telling you that is the KEY!
More uploads and narration and your channel will explode.
Thank you so much for the positive feed back. Lol, I've noticed that people watch the flight videos more at the parts with words. I really think you're right about your suggestion. I just recorded a flywoo explorer video with some spoken narration recorded while flying to go along with it. So my first try at that type is coming soon. To be honest speaking to the camera is a bit of a hurdle for me to overcome. I enjoy socializing and conversation but have always found both a little difficult. I've put off talking to or being on camera for the first 40 video's so probably time to try and step up rather than further procrastination. 😉
You are brave to show soldering on youtube. It really attracts the critics. Your method seems fine to me, and your iron seems to be adequate, though a higher wattage iron would be better. I use an 80W weller soldering station with a chisel tip, and crank it all the way up to 850F when soldering cells. I can tin the negative element in about 4 seconds, and the positive in about 2, so very little heat is transferred into the cell. But your iron and method seems fine.
Your method of adding an extra layer of shrink wrap to the cells is probably fine, but I like to use 1mm thick double sided servo tape between the cells. Over time, vibration can cause abrasion and that can be VERY bad. The padded tape totally prevents any chance of that.
Digging that spa music. 😃 Also, please do more of these. I find it both informative and relaxing. You’re like the Bob Ross of FPV.
Haha for real, his voice is soo relaxing.
Will do! Working on the diy helical antenna video next. There are several other video's on youtube about making them but I'm going to try and get it simplified and as easy as possible.
@@FalconRadFPV Can't wait :)
Thank you so much for these recent build and setup videos. You are my long range FPV go to on RUclips. Look forward to more videos in the future and have fun out there flying.
Thanks, will do!
I agree his videos are amazing, no other channel that I have found has Long-range, no cuts, and narrated video.
Great stuff ,Mr.FalconRad FPV , very talented and knowledgeable guy , I totaly enjoyed this learning ,thank you .
Much appreciated!
Beautiful video
Provides me inner peace off mind as an engineer and rc hobbyist ☺️
Thank you, much appreciated!
You are a great help man ... I was wondering if you can one day how to set up and check the operation of the gps
That's a good video idea. I'm building a new quad later this week and I'll do videos about the build and setup (including gps setup and testing)
@@FalconRadFPV Fantastic ...... then let's wait.
Many thanks
Joshua Bardwell has a video on that.
@@aowi7280 who is Joshua?
@@ladronefpv4484 LOL!!!
Thank you very much!
I ordered my VTC6 cells already last April after I saw your video and finally grew the balls to build my 4S pack today. Thank you very much for the great video!
Glad I could help
Dear FalconRad, thanks for the complete explanation, this was the most complete video about li-ion battery. thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Love the Aphex Twinish background music!! Goes perferct with your calm and humble persona! Really cool content and like other people says the best about you is your talking sharing your thoughs and experiences. A big hug and appreciation from another ramdon guy from the internet!!
Thank you very much!
Good tip about the little solder drops that splatter. Ive started using masking tape on my mosfets and components just to make me worry less about cleanup. Its just tape so its not heavy duty but it makes stray droplets easy to see.
That was an great example how to do the Liion batteries! Very detailed and liked every minute of it! Thank you
Thank you very much!
One more thing that I can add is putting some more insulation between cells to prevent any possible shorting. I used double sided tape to keep them away in case of any damage on the plastic cover on the batteries.
They are already double wrapped in cell covers and with a bit of glue holding them together there is no rubbing between cells to wear away the wrapper. They are never crashed. If I crashed more I would use much more padding.
Just a message to say: Keep up with the GREAT work!!!
Very informative vids.
Cheers from New Zealand and Kia Kaha!!
Awesome, thank you!
Probably the best tutorial for making DIY packs! If you make one for helical antennas, will be gold :) !
Coming soon! Halfway through making the helical video.
The wisdom being shared here and the meticulousness is astounding. Thank you for sharing this. I cannot wait to get started on my first drone thanks to the help of people like you. (although I probably stick to lipos at first)
You are so welcome!
Great tutorial, thanks for creating this! Something I do that may help keep the cells cooler is wrap them in a damp/wet cloth with rubber bands holding it in place. I use a second damp cloth to cool the top of the cell(s) as soon as the solder has solidified.
Thanks, oh that's an interesting idea for keeping the cells cooler!
Great tip with the heatshrink on the xt60 wires
Glad it helped
Your video has inspired me to do some research on battery welding machines. I was very surprised to find out they can be bought for as little at $25 US and really good ones around $50. I thought they were going to be Thousands. Thank you for the great detailed video and all the great long range action.
Wow that's cheap, you mean the ones that plug into a lipo?
@@FalconRadFPV exactly. There are a couple for $25 where you provide your own battery or the ones that have their own battery start around $50. There are a bunch of reviews of all the different cheap ones and they all do insanely good on .1 - .15 material . In fact they are so strong that most of them are way to powerful on the strongest setting!! I totally thought it had to be one of those larger welders that are much more expensive. It's crazy how small they are . It looks like they are doing it by means of a really high c rating battery so it can dump a huge amount of current but they battery itself can be really small.
My new favorite channel.....love the content.
Thank you very much! 👍
Oh, it’s foooaaammm.... when you were going through your setup, I thought you had a big pile of joints sitting on your desk. I was thinking, wow... this guy is thorough about his method! 😗💨
Lol, well you weren't far off with your guess buddy. The flow of weed IS plentiful and potent but I try to keep it out of sight.
The best DIY li-ion pack I ever seen till now. BTW are you using 12awg or 14awg for jumpers ? I’m afraid these packs get hot in mountain climbing
I use 14g for all the connections. At the amps being used for efficient long range flights 14g is plenty. I have never noticed hot battery leads on any of my packs. I've also never had one fail and I've made 20+ over the last three years.
@@FalconRadFPV Do you think I still use 14awg jumpers even if I make a 6S2P pack ? Thanks 😊
Maybe I'll soon build up my gear and experience to do some of what you're doing with your long-range flights (i'm a newbie with a tiny whoop), love both the imposing and serene scenes of your films. Thanks.
You're welcome and thank you for great comment!
Thanks, your video inspired me to build a 4-cell pack with the Molicel P42A 21700 4200mAh 45A batteries. Was going to try it on a 5 in freestyle frame that's been cruising at about 13 amps. Been flying with a 4 cell CHNL 2000 mah lipo that weighs 232 grams and getting about 8 1/2 minutes flight time. For a few ounces more in weight the molicel batteries will have double the capacity. In your video you like to use a Dremel tool to prep the cells for soldering. I was watching one of Pawel Spychalski videos. He likes to use an acid-based flux for tinning the batteries then rinses off the acid flux. Says there's no need for sanding. What special flux did you try using that you didn't trust. I ordered some Forney 61460 Acid Petro-Based Flux Paste that I was thinking about using to tin the batteries. Acid based flux is not to be used on electronics so I'm thinking your method might be better.
It's just to scrape off the coating that's put on the cell ends to prevent oxidation. You can use a little bit of sand paper even. I use the dremel (very carefully to only scrape the surface not remove material) since I make a bunch of batteries at the same time so scratching the ends on 50 cells goes faster that way. The acid Pawel talks about does the same thing but chemically rather than physically. With a 4s pack just make sure you watch the amp draw carefully!
@@FalconRadFPV Ok thanks for the reply. Happy flying😀
Nice video bud, keep up the good work and great tips! Really enjoy your flying adventures.
Thank you very much, I really appreciate the comment!
Dammmm. I Was setting here in the morning, trying to get awake and ready for study on a zoom Meeting with a big Mug full of Coffee, and our Rc Content combinde With your ASMR voice and this relax music make me feel just fine.
Thank you
lol, awesome! Thanks for the comment!
It's a nice video, good explanation on how to solder the cells. That being said I stopped making packs with soldering a while back when I discovered the super cheap spot welders that work with 3-4S lipos. All that hassle with preparing the cells, heating them, using a proper tip for to keep the heat long enough so that the battery is not cooling it down too quickly is just not worth it. For about $15 + a properly rated 3S lipo (let's say 4Ah at 30C) you get perfect welds. Not to mention the side of the battery is flat, and it takes up a lot less space and is in fact lighter by a few grams.
Wow that cheap for one of those? Sometimes reply's get hard to find, can you do me a favor and leave another message recommending a 3 or 4s spot welder that worked well for you?
@@FalconRadFPV Sure! Here's the one I have pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001859927949.html
You obviously need to be a tiny bit cautious because you're holding the two electrodes separately in your hands. The way I do it is I take the one electrode with my left hand (I'm right-handed), I hold the nickel with that electrode and then find a spot for the second electrode and once I press it firmly to the nickel it welds for 2-3 times and that's it. Then I repeat the process to get like 2-3 sets of welds (6 joint points in total per one side of the cell) and that's it.
Welding a 4 cell lion pack that I use mostly for my long range flights with wing-wing z84 takes me start to finish about 30 minutes with all the welding, soldering wires and everything. As a side note there are shrink wraps that work much better than the electrical tape. The finished product looks like off-the-shelf!
Thanks for the tutorial made it easy. I'm going to try this for my long range rig🤙🏼
No problem 👍
I have never thought about making my own batteries before but i might give it a try.
If you're experienced at soldering and careful about it, it's really not that difficult. (if you order cells get one really cheap one and just use it as a $4 (or whatever amount) practice one then dispose of it. After a practice one it should be pretty easy. (as long as you don't short anything out, I still get sloppy and get soldering iron marks on the perimeter every now and again. Which would short the cell if it didn't have the wrap on it, or if the iron was on it long enough to melt it away.)
@@FalconRadFPV Ok thanks
Im excited to hear how the 21700 batteries work out for you. Thanks for the video!
Thanks, I'll let everyone know soon. I may have to wait for some good weather after finishing the build. (it rains a lot during Vancouver winters)
great stuff, i had to use vinegar, (clear non brewed acetic acid) to stop the aluminium oxidizing and failing to accept solder, a quick wipe with vinegar immediately before soldering and it seems to work ok. also, no beginners should even use a multiboard to charge more than one battery at a time, get to know the batteries first, number them and monitor each cell to make sure its healthy, one bad cell can spoil a whole bunch of batteries when multi charging.
Hey awesome tip at the end there. Yes I've had a bad battery ruin a few other batteries from multi-charging. Now I just use 2 chargers and charge everything one at a time at 1c. I should have mentioned that I use my packs in pairs so I label them and never mix the pairs. The matching pair is always charged and stored at the exact same amps and volts.
43:23 - What is the name of this sticky tape for covering the battery? And on 39:51 - What is this soft material to protect the elements? What kind of solder is best for soldering contacts? 11:32 - What kind of solder is best for soldering contacts?
I prefer to use 63%tin/37%lead solder. I used a firm foam for padding on the ends. I just used foam from packaging for motors and cut it thin. Then I cover the ends and foam with electrical tape to protect and insulate. Then duct tape to finish off wrapping it.
This is super helpful. Any reason why you'd want to use unprotected vs protected cells?
I would rather ruin my li-ion cells and make it home (only ruin battery), instead of having a protected one just shut off mid flight over the river or something (lose quad, battery and gopro).
@@FalconRadFPV solid logic, and excellent answer, thanks a million!
Awesome! And what a coincidence, i love your long range flights but i found this video looking for work stuff, i just got hired to make battery packs!
Oh nice, that's great. Hey I'll need some advice from you next time then.
@@FalconRadFPV itll be a while before i learn all the stuff you know, but thats the goal, learn alot and help people with reliable portable power. i just gotta work my way up until they let me start making drone batteries on the weekend lol. I have no formal education but they hired me based on a good attitude and the drones i taught myself to build with help from guys like you. I dont mean to share my life story here, im just excited!
@@FalconRadFPV it happened! They let me build drone batteries! Underwater drones lastweek! Thats pretty cool but the reaaaaly cool thing the engineers are prototyping is 2x 17,000mah 6s lipos in series, 34,000 mah batteries for a flying drone. Remarkable, its huuuge and kinda scarey. Once testing is complete that what ill be building!
Could we get a link where you buy your cells from ?
Here you go. 18650batterystore.com (best off with molicel or samsung cells I think)
Thanks
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing! Wouldn’t mind trying this out myself. Maybe when I’ve hit the limit of my lipos 👍🏻
Your welcome!
Pretty cool man , always wanted to try to build a pack , thanks for the video 👍
No problem 👍
If you wanted to. Could you use both lion or Lipo batteries on your build?
Yes either would be fine. Lipo's put out way more amps, they'll be good on any quad. The Li-ion cells get overheated and damaged when the amp draw is near to or exceeds the rated amp handling of the cell. Generally speaking li-ion batteries are better suited to quads with motors chosen for efficiency rather than power (low kv) and also flown the same way (mostly straight cruising not to hard on the throttle and mindful of constant amp draw)
That said I have flown freestyle with Li-ion batteries but it would shorten the lifespan if done regularly.
man i need one of these sooo bad!!!!
@FalconRad FPV what wire size are you using for battery lead and jumper between the battery?
I saw a Joshua Bardwell video where he explained that 14g was even ok for a freestyle quad. So I use 14g wire for the leads. I used 12g for the jumpers just to be safe since I wouldn't be able to tell if they got too hot or not once the pack is wrapped (and it's only an extra 1g or 2g since the jumpers are so short.
I was told, by a Lion battery dealer, that tin strips are resistive....and to use copper strips instead. That is, f you're soldering the packs. I have some sheets of .025" thick copper sheets that I can cut into 10mm strips. I think those a) will definitely not be resistive and b) make for a clean build, at the ends of the packs. Oh, and c) solder up very easily. Thanks for the tutorial.
Ya that would make for a clean build and keep the overall pack size down as well, nice!
Let me ask you a question.
It's a 3 inch cine hoop.
In the video, there are videos of making a pack with 4 lithium-ion 18650 batteries and flying it with an FPV long range.
With excitement, I ordered batteries and made a pack.
LGDBHG21865 3000mA.
The problem is... When I hovered, the yaw tick symptom reappeared after it came up, and, after a few seconds, the low-voltage buzzer sounded and the aircraft sank.
If I open it again, it opens again,,,,, repeat...
So, I changed the low voltage warning in Beta Flight to 2.7V, and when I turned it on, there was no sound.
If I take a break for a while, it will float again. But it sinks again... The battery is hot, and the voltage is 3.8V... TT
I bought 40 tablets... but I can't use them all?
How do people use? Batteries were also made by buying anything.
Is my FC the problem? Or is there a special setting for Li-ion?
FC is IFlight SucceX Mini F4 V3 Stack, and the manual says 2~6 Lipol. Do I have to use only Lipol? Can I change FC?
Why is this happening?
It's a waste of money/work time.
I'm serious~~ Please advise.~~ TT
I try to mention in all of my li-ion videos that it is not for any build. A long range quad can use li-ion because it is designed for range not speed or agility. Because of this it uses low kv motors to save on battery, this means that as its fly's it only pulls about 15 amps. A good rule that I stick to is for your battery to be rated twice as high as your amp draw during regular forward flight. I can cruise at 60kph at 14 to 16 amps so I need a 30 amp rated battery to do so reliably.
A cinewhoop is the opposite of a long range build. It is very inefficient and hard on batteries due to a high amp draw. To use those LG cells your cinewhoop would have to fly at about 10 amps, on 4s I'm guessing that it pulls double or triple that amount.
The 4s packs I made in the video are to be used two at a time together for double the amp handling capacity. It was for 2507 1750kv on 4s, so a low kv setup even for my 7"
Also high capacity (like 3000mah or more) li-ion cells do not handle amps nearly as well as ones with lower capacity. I have used 2600mah li-ion cells rated at 35 amps. I have never tried any 3000mah rated cells because they can not handle what I want to use them for.
You need to take the time to get your current meter calibrated properly so you know how many amps your setup is pulling (while using a lipo). Then when you know how many amps it uses you can try to find a battery that will be able to manage that amount of amp draw. My guess is that a cinewhoop should only be run on lipo batteries because the amp draw will be too high.
I have sort of a similar setup to you. BH 1300kv motors on 7", but a lighter AUW. Right now I have it on a 6S 21700 with the same cells you used for you pack (Samsung 40T).
I want a little more flight time but don't want to go crazy with the weight. Have you flown those motors on 5S? I'm thinking of doing a 5S2P pack with the 3000mah Sony 18650s for 6000mah total. It would be about 25 more watt hours than the 6S Samsung pack without being too much heavier.
What do you think?
They would probably work for 5s2p. I tried them with 4s2p and they worked but were under powered.
0:45 I'm looking for good batteries for this. Do I sum up the discharge current of each battery to get the total discharge current, or does a single battery need to have high enough rating?
A single cell needs to have a high enough rating. (unless you are going to run 2 packs in parallel, then the load will be shared over the 2 packs so you would add the amp handling (30A for example) together. 2 packs would handle 60A constant without burning up.)
My 6s quad pulls an avg of 15 amps constant at a 60kph flat cruise, and same speed but going up a mountain is 20 to 30 amps constant. I use 2 packs each rated 35amps in parallel. So between the 2 packs I sometimes pull 30amps for 20 or 30 seconds or more and can hold it at 45amps for short punchouts. I know they can handle more than that but heat shortens the life and under these conditions they come down only a little warm. I can do close to the same with just 1 pack on my quad (I've tried it for some moderate freestyle flying before) but with just one pack on the pack is quite noticably warmer, not crazy hot, it could handle it but it's mah capacity would go down over time more quickly then the ones that get run only a little warm.
There are 18650's and 21700's. I wouldn't trust buying any cells that you can't find a legit looking manufacturer data sheet for. It takes a little bit to understand how to compare the cells properly. It's worth the time though. 18650batterystore.com has data sheet links for all the big name brand cells.
@@FalconRadFPV thank you so much for the detailed answer! My 6s pulls around 10A at 60kph flat and around 15A while climbing mountains. GPS Rescue pulls 30A worst case while climbing (configurable I guess with the max throttle setting). 30A or 35A rating is probably minimum for me? It's really hard to find anything above 15A rating here in Iceland so I'll have to keep looking.
@@KristjanBroderLund You might be able to run a 20 amp rated cell and get a bit less power and it'll probably last 2 years instead of 3. But ya sounds like 30 would be best and then you should be all good running only one pack with your amps. I'm not sure if you can accept li-ion cells in your mail, restrictions vary be country, but if cells are hard to find or expensive it might be worth the shipping from 18650batterystore.com (if they'll ship to Iceland) since the cells are the lowest prices I've seen. The cells I use, the 35 amp molicel p26a 18650's go on daily deal sales every now and again for $3.99 US per cell. They were half the price of the best deal I found in Canada.
Does soldering damage the battery ? I always hear welding is the way to connect batteries.
It's supposed to damage the chemistry. A spot welder is the recommended way to work with the cells. Dispite soldering I still get the rated capacity out of my cells, maybe they'll last a few cycles less, so 300 instead of 350 charges maybe. I won't notice the difference.
@@FalconRadFPV thx
you build your packs the same way i do mine bro and ive never had a problem with any of mine ive been planing my next long range flight it was going to be yesturday but the wether closed in so i didnt go to far uk winters suck love your vids bro happy and safe flying
Thank you, hope you get to do your next flight soon. ( I hear ya about the weather, I'm in vancouver and it's been hard to get out flying this winter.
Great tutorial! I will start doing my own liion too but I will use a spot welder and clear heat shrink tube. It's funny because I have not much idea what I'm doing yet but I got the same Samsung 40T and Molicel batteries. I was also thinking about making a 3d printed tpu mount to protect and keep the batteries from touching each others.
Your welcome. Oh that's awesome you'll get to use a proper spot welder, nice. It probably makes it easier and safer. Good job choosing your cells 👍
learned something today, thanks man
Glad to hear it! (just don't tell Bardwell I learned ya something today, I don't want to piss him off, he's my idol!)
Hey are you run the 4s setup with a 6s quad ( motors) or did you change to 4s motors?
Thanks for all the help so far.
I eventually converted the six 4s packs into four 6s packs. I tried 4s for a while because I think it should be more efficient then 6s. But I believe the reduction of amps with moving up to 6s improves the longevity of the li-ion cells more than 4s improves efficiency over 6s. This is all with a heavy battery and full size GoPro. It would be different with a very light quad since less weight = less amps in flight. So a very light weight quad could make use of 4s efficiency while getting nearly full capacity out of it's li-ion battery.
I did get 1 or 2 km more range with the 4s 2507 1750kv setup but it could have also been the smaller motor size (I usually use 2806.5 1300kv 6s).
I’ll take a few 4s packs please! Great video! Under the battery wrapper has always been a mystery to me. I feel like I finally have an idea what’s going on! Looking forward to seeing flight time on those.
Thank you! Hopefully the weather gets better and I'll get a chance to get some flights in. It might be a month or two before I can get out in the mountains again, but there's a local place that I can do flight time and moderate range testing at. although I still have a couple of good mountain flights from a couple of months ago left to edit but those are of course with my 6s setup.
@@FalconRadFPV weather has me trapped inside too. I’ll take some 6s mountain videos when ever your ready! Whooping around my house only scratches the itch so much... Some of your LR mountain videos makes up the rest! Fingers crossed weather improves enough.
Sorry if you said this in the video but I couldn't find out what type of cells are these red ones your using for this new battery?
Oh that's a red wrap on the normally grey molicel p42a 21700 li-ion cells.
correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know negative wire is the one to be afraid of and tends to get hot, desolder etc.
I'm not sure, I make sure both ends are a solid connection. I never pull enough current from them to get anywhere near desoldering the connections. My packs are just a little warm after a flight.
AMAZING information! Thank you so much
You're welcome!
Which background music are you using for the first track of this video?
Sorry I don't remember. I tried listening to it but I don't recognize it off the top of my head.
Thank you for this video. Learnt a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
@FalconRad , did you already compared the Molice 18650 Vs. 21700 ? I'm currently using Molicel 18650 , 6S 2P , approx. weight is 580 Grams. I'm thinking to test the Molicel 21700 4S 2P , what do you think about ? weight difference should be around 50 Grams.
Yes I tried and found there was not much difference between them. About the same flight time and range. Maybe a 1or 1.5 km more with the 21700 4s2p over the 18650 6s2p.
With 6s2p 21700 it flies longer for sure but it's really heavy.
@@FalconRadFPV Thank you , I had a big "Dilemma" about so ! I think I will still proceed with the 6S2P - 18650 Molicel P26A. In fact they have come out now with the P28A with 2800 mah maybe will be the best compromise !
Hey, Have you tested flight time with 3x 4s packs apposed to 2x 6s packs?
No I never tried 4s3p. I flew the 4s2p for a while but ended up making them into 6s packs eventually. I think I needed more kv than the 1700kv motors that I was using, but my 6s setup just felt more responsive. It was probably the motor kv.
what length battery strap do you recommend for 21700 6S1P?
300mm battery strap
Hello can you explain a little bit in a video how do you measure or calculate amp consumption?
I use the battery packs with an fpv drone. The drone has electronics and firmware to fairly accurately track and display the current used by the motors. I just look at the OSD in my FPV goggles for the number of amps that are being drawn from the battery.
@@FalconRadFPV thanks!
Sorry just noticing I may have misunderstood the question a little. I'm building a new quad (this week I think) and will be doing videos about the build as well as getting it setup for long range flights. Part of that will be a video about getting to know your batteries. I'll talk about getting the quad's current meter calibrated well so that we get accurate readings for amps drawn and mah consumed during flights. That will be several video's down the line though.
Hi Falcon ! What’s your target recharge voltage ? I read controversial opinions between 4.15v and 4.20v . I have home made liion pack and ready to fly liion packs . Sony VTC6 and Samsung 18650 specs usually are on the 4.2v side and you ?
Iusually charge up to 4.20v to get every mah I can. I think they will last longer if you only charge up to 4.1 or 4.15. There really isn't a big difference between 4.2 and 4.15 as far as mah count goes. On my 2600 mah 6s 18650 packs I charge them to 4.15 the night before then top them off to 4.2 an hour or two before using them. It only adds another 100 to 120 mah going from 4.15 to 4.2.
@@FalconRadFPV thank you very much 👍👍👍
How can you find out the C rating when doing these? I am wanting to do a 3S and am not sure how to figure out what the C rating will be
li-ion cells will be rated by amps that the cell can manage. Good li-ion cells are about 10c. The fewer cells used, genrally the higher the amp load. To run a quad on 3s li-ion you will need your quad to not be too heavy or the amp draw will be too high. If you are planning a 6 or 7 inch quad then it should be 21700 cells. If its for a 5.5 inch or smaller props you could probably use 18650 cells or 21700. Make sure reaserch the cells and look up reviews. Only the best li-ion cells are worth using for fpv quads.
So i don't have to use a bms kind of board inside that gets the power from a balancing charger ? I have seen there should be a pcb in some prebuild ones
I would skip the PCB and just charge them the same as a lipo. The BMS is used on li-ion batteries that are very low amp uses. It will interfere with amp draw on something like a drone. Same as how lipo batteries for drones do not have a BMS.
@@FalconRadFPV thanks for the answer, in that case it is easier to do and i don't have to wrap my mind for searching a suitable bms board as a balancing charger with li ion function will do. After more research, my awareness of how dangerous these cells can be has raised and i am more reserved to the idea of building such pack. Even if i will be using 12 cells for an 6s2p pack, just one failing is necessary to catch on fire and burn my whole drone to ground.. I was thinking to implement a small gauge wire as the connector between serial cells to act as a fuse as i have seen others do. There will be 6 pairs in series, each of 2 parallel cells connected together (a normal 6s2p setup) in this situation the balancing leads will be places at each series node as usual but now there will be 2 cells in parallel receiving that balanced charge and even if the groups of the pack will be balanced one against other, inside a parallel group how can i make sure the cells are behaving the same? i know i am supposed to use identical cells with save discharge rate and internal resistance but will they sustain in time and not charge/discharge one to the other? or i guess i am just sceptical, since so many have build huge packs wich consist of tens of cells connected in parallel and they are working
hey why are you using 2 seperate packs in parallel instead of 1x 6s2p is there any advantage ?
One of the drones I use them on (my RAD Li-ion) doesn't have a big enough top plate to carry a big 6s2p battery. I mount one on top and the other underneath. This keeps the overall length of the drone shorter which improves aerodynamic drag (for longer flight times) and keeps the battery weight more centralized.
Thanks my friend for the great information. We have subscribed 😎🇺🇸
Awesome! Thank you!
What's your opinion on a Molicel 21700-P42A? I ant to make a 6S1P for my 7"1300Kv motors. Thanks.
I have some 6s P42A packs. I usually use them two at a time for extra long flights, but I have also used them one pack at a time. You just need to be thoughtful of your amp draw and make sure not to over do it, but they should work well.
@@FalconRadFPV Thanks man, love your videos, I just build an Aos 7 for Long Range but don’t like to pushed to hard, I fly just 10 minutes and land at 3,4v, I wanted to keep extra juice for a GPS rescue, very conservative I would say. Please keep coming more videos, regards from Bogota, this is my Aos 7 maiden video.
ruclips.net/video/20ZS2uJkWDw/видео.html
I thought that going with the 21700 is the way to go as a good start and now I noticed that some are favoring the 18650 alongside the performance of the 21700 !
So what are your results and what you recommend for me ?
I prefer 2x 6s 18650 packs for long range. I'll use 2 x 6s 21700 packs for extra range. I don't fly much with just a single pack, not great if you get stuck fighting some wind. 2 packs gives better amp handling ability. 2x 18650s is 640g, 2x 21700 is about 940g
@FalconRadFPV Thanks man for the response. I think I'll use both packs and measure time vs weight overall performance.
Did you consider to use 18650 Molicel P28A? little more mah
I would like to but they are nearly impossible to source for any reasonable amount of money.
Nice video bro. I am very familiar with 5" freestyle but but i am quite new in the long range fpv. I know it is an old question and hope you don't mind. What is the differences between using the 18650/21700, and the normal Lipos with higher C numbers？ Thanks!
Higher C lipo's will usually be heavier. Although there aren't many lower C choices. When you get up to a 4000mah lipo 100c is more than you need for general long range flying. the 18650's are about 47g each and the 27100's are about 68g each. The the 21700 have higher capacities and some have higher amp ratings than the 18650's do. It's going to be about sorting out what amp draw you will be needing for your props, motors, flying style and weather you need extra power available to escape a strong wind that caches you off guard (it's a top of a mountain thing, not a worry anywhere else) My current quad uses about 15 + amps constant to fly out and back at 60kph. I sometimes need up to 70+ amps for pulling out of dives or fighting a strong wind. I like the li-ion rating to be close to double my needs. I use a 6s2p pack so shares the amperage between the 2p (basically 2 batteries combined together) The individual cells are rated at 35 amps constant and there two of them sharing the load. So at 70 amps I should be able top hold it for a while. I can pull more than 70 out of them though. I've hit over 100amps draw from my 6s2p li-ion pack with higher kv motors. You don't want them to be too hot when you land. It can be nicely warm but nowhere near uncomfortable to bare skin. A lipo takes the heat a bit better than a li-ion cell (generally speaking)
@@FalconRadFPV Ah that really helps a lot bro. your channel is what I have learned the most about LR FPV in the best way. And I got another question which you might be asked most about, is there any particular reason why you choose analog vtx instead of Digital? I am not sure if you tested DJI for your LR. Thanks bro!!
@FalconRad FPV Wondering what you think of EVE 20P 18650 2000mAh 30A Battery. Is this brand any good? Thanks.
I have no experience with any EVE li-ion cells. But I have used the molicel brand a lot. They make a p26a and p28a that are 2600mah and 2800mah both are rated for 35 amps. My guess is that maybe the EVE cell might have a longer life span? just guessing, but anyway the molicel will last plenty long enough. I have two packs from 2 1/2 years ago and they still work fairly well. I just checked, they hold the mah count well even at 20 amp output but the cycle life is not that great, 60% after 300 cycles. Also they are not very good performers in the cold weather, only 80% capacity at 0 c. They are cheap though, $2 on sale right now but I still say you are better off spending $5 a cell on P28A's. It's $30 instead of $12 for one 6s pack but it's worth the extra money I think, you will get a noticeably shorter flight time with that EVE cell, my GUESS is about 25 to 30% less.
@@FalconRadFPV Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate your input. I'll go with the molicel brand then.
Hi! I think your video was very useful and informative and I would like to ask you a question. Do you recommend applying a BMS (Battery Management System) circuit board to my 6s 3400 mAh 18650 LiIon battery pack? Because i bought 6 pieces of 3400 mAh 18650 lion cells and wanted the workshop mechanist to weld them together for my drone and he said that he won't do it until i bring him a BMS circuit board. What do you recommend? Will it affect my flight? Anyway it's very cheap, about 3 bucks for one BMS board.
Unfortunately you can't use a BMS on a flight battery. At least not that I know of. Maybe there is one that only works for overcharge protection? But usually they come with over current protection (your quad will turn off when you go full throttle) and with low voltage protection (your quad will fall out of the sky if you get too low in the pack).
For flight batteries the BMS is basically your charger. It knows not to over charge them because you set it yourself to 4.1v or 4.2v etc... but having overcurrent or low voltage protection will not work out well for a flight battery. Also it would be hard to find a BMS with a 20 or 30 amp over current limit.
Maybe you could explain that you are going to use a charger that checks the balance of each cell (you need a balance lead on the pack of course!) so it would be safe. If you draw too much current or let the voltage get too low it will just sag and or be ruined, but very little chance of any danger.
3400 mah 18650 cells? How many amps are they rated for? How many amps does you quad pull in forward flight and in a short full throttle burst? Generally 18650 cells with over 3000 mah capacity will have a VERY LOW ability to handler current, maybe 5 or 10 amps max unless they are some kind of amazing new li-ion cell. I use 2600mah or 2800 mah 18650 cells rated for 25 or 35 amps constant.
@@FalconRadFPV Thank you very much for the explanation! You saved my quad and money. It was a big help. I'll do further more research on my drone to see how much amps it drains and how much my cells can put out. Thank you again! Subbed!
Thanks for your time
Thanks for watching!
I just want to know that the li-on 18650 batteries are much cheaper than lipos but still most of the fpv racers uses lipo for fpv flying . So is there any difference between the two in terms of performance ?? Please let me know
Lipo batteries can put out way more amps more consistantly. Racing requires a lot of throttle work and is very hard on batteries. Roughly a lipo can handle about double the amp compared to a good li-ion cell. Compared to a mediocre li-ion cell a lipo can put out 10X or more amps. Racing and freestyle require lipo batteries, Li-ion is really only for long range or a long cruse at a reasonable pace.
@@FalconRadFPV Thanks a lot brother . Doubts all cleared now 😊
what about the ions you can buy, are those worse, or do you just not want to pay for them
I can make them for way cheaper and I use cells with a lower capacity but better amp handling.
Hey, do you sell these or do you know anywhere I can get a good 4s pack? I'm in Canada
Check my answer to your comment in the long range parts discussion video. No I'm not sure about where to buy them. I make all my own packs with cells bought from 18650batterystore.com is the US.
This morning im flying my 7inch with vtc5a 6s liion.. with my 5inch quad, i can fly it until 3v and always keeps the amp never above 15a, and i can land with cool battery. But with my 7inch, and yes the amp draw already calibrated, im testing the fligtime by flying around with low cruising amp.. around 7-13amp.. but why everytime i land at below 3.3v the battery gets hot.. not super hot.but more than warm. If i fly and land at 3,5-3,4 i can land with cool battery.. whats your experience with 1p liion pack? I dont want to build 2p.
flying my 7" with 6s1p 18650 the battery will get hotter than I like if I do freestyle type flying. If I just fly around gently at 50kph then the battery will be only a bit warm. But I use molicel cells which are rated a bit higher for amp draw.
@@FalconRadFPV if im now wrong vtc5a rated at 30-35a. i dont fly freestyle with my 7 inch, only cruise. but why if i land at 3.4 the liion pack still cold, but if i keep flying until 3-3.3v the pack will land warm. but if the pack keeps rising its temp become hot almost like my lipo if i do hard freestyle.
but this didnt happen if i fly the liion pack with my 5 inch quad.
Hi seeing in the past you have used 2 4s lipos at ones,
How many amps can you use on a 1500 mah 14.8 v lipo in series
meaning using two 4s lipos at once.
Is there a idot guide for this atall thanks if you can help me Pete.
Two 4s lipo's in series will make an 8s battery. It will handle the same amp rating as the batteries say on the wrapper and be 4.2v x 8.
If two 4s packs are connected in parallel it makes a 4s battery that can handle twice the amp load that's written on the battery wrapper and has twice the mah capacity.
@@FalconRadFPV Thanks for your help. Yes they are parallel sorry not shore on different topics of lipos.So what you said looks good thanks again 🏆🏆👍
Hi Sir..which one should i go for,
1.Sony vtc6 3000mah
2.Lg hg2 3000mah
3.Panasonic Ncr18650 3400mah
All delivers const 20a
Sorry I haven't used any of those except the vtc6 which I wasn't impressed by. The only way to tell would be to compare equivalent data between the data sheets for each type. Some stores (like 18650batterystore.com) link to the manufacturer data sheet in the product description. You could also probably find them with a google search. You'll have to do it yourself though. It's probably 45 minutes of work. You want to look for how they perform under load. there should be a couple of graphs or charts showing performance under certain loads (amps) and sometimes temperatures. Just make sure you compare the same things together, like voltage performance between cells just make sure both were tested under the same load. It usually shows it for 1, 5, 10, 15 amps or something like that all on one chart. Good luck!
@@FalconRadFPV ok sir thank you, i let u know if sorted out right cell for me 🥳
Thank you so much for all this insights! I am building one myself this week out of 18650s too. Do you reckon it's better to build an 4S or 5S to pair with 1800KV?
It's going for an 7" build.
your welcome. For long range, go with 4s.
@@FalconRadFPV @Grim FPV my train of thought was that with a 5S landing voltage would be better landing as 3V P/Cell and current draw would be a bit less too during the flight making the cells happier. On the motors being 2507 1800KV maybe throttle limiting them would do the trick?
Is that plausible?
@@Brunmed If you already have the motors then ya just throttle limit to suit you amp needs and use 5s if you like, could also allow for that little extra punch when you need it at the end of a dive or something. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with this but I think having the correct kv is better than throttle limiting. (again if you have the motors already just use them with a limit) as far as 3v/cell landing voltage, If going far out you don't need good thrust to just cruise back home. Out of interest I tried my 1300 kv motors with my new 4s battery. Even at 1kg all up with one 4s pack and a gopro the 1300kv motors with tri blade props were plenty of thrust for flying around moderately, couldn't do anything to aggressive or catch a dive with it but fly home and land no worries. I'm pretty sure 4s would be the way to go for getting better range and should be powerful enough for dives and heavy wind. Now all that said if you are using only one li-ion pack then maybe 5s and a throttle limit would make a more sense to get the amps a bit lower. You would want it to be 21700 cells (45 amp) then probably. If you were using dual packs in parallel then I wouldn't worry too much about 4s vs 5s amp draw. There are really a bunch of factors at play together in making the decision. Also the lighter the quad the lower the amp draw will be. If a quad were light enough 3s would even work with probably 1900kv and 7".
@@FalconRadFPV I guess I'll experiment first! I need to use a LiPo and study what amp draw it's using so that I'll build a Li-Ion pack with a good safe margin.
Again thanks for your insights.
I guess I'll use the 5S balance leads a still build a 4S. It has good punch on 4S and motors run cold all the time :)
Hi my friend. I think you're keeping iron too much on the battery surface when soldering. I counted 10 seconds! I've managed to solder it in 3 seconds maximum and quickly cool it down with alcohol-soaked fabric to keep everything as cold as possible.
Thanks for the tip. Yes my soldering iron is not very good, it always leaves me struggling with big jobs like this. I will be getting a new one at some point but, it's a pretty expensive hobby.
Can you power the Brother Hobby Avenger 2806.5 1300kv motors fine with the 6s 21700 setup? Wondering about it because I have the same motors.
I use 6s2p 18650 with them at the moment. 6s1p would work with 21700 but you probably would want to use a throttle limit to go a bit easier on the amp draw. You would also need max amp handling in the 21700 cells. Something l9ike 35 to 45 constant amp rating. Most are 15 to 25 amp constant, but a few are rated higher. Go over manufacturer data sheets carefully to choose cells.
@@FalconRadFPV Thanks for your reply. I plan to use the Molicells which are rated for for 45A continuous, and according to specs the 1300kv motor will draw 44.4A at max, so I will be just under.
I also plan on using these holders so I can swap them out and charge them individually: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310012917.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4c734c4dnc0aLg
Correction for the record. It is 44.4A at max PER MOTOR :). Looks like I should go with 2p to be on the safe side.
Hey, just curious where you buy your cells?
18650batterystore.com they are in the state of Georgia. Best prices I have found. Even with the shipping cost, it's like half the price of trying to buy the cells in Canada where I live. $3.99 us vs like $12 CA for the exact same cells.
@@FalconRadFPV im canadian too thats why i asked lol...thanks a lot man
hi im wondering if there is much difference between hdo2 and orqa fpv. I mean in range there isnt rights, it just matters the antennas and the reciever right?. apart from that is there much difference?
It's a big and expensive decision. The short of it is that I think the HDO2 are supposed to look just a tiny bit better but they use the same screens as the orqa's so future firmware updates may be able to get it on par (although I hear it's really close already). The orqas are better as far as options and future proofing. I believe they have much more processing power on board than the hdo2's.
The looooong answer is: fatshark said in interviews (before hdo2's or orqa's) that they were not going to make a higher resolution goggle because the cost of better screens was too much of a business investment to be viable. Then orqa announced they had a working prototype of the FPV.One's and then 6 months later fatshark came out with the hdo2's (a few months before orqa made it to market) I believe the attention orqa got for announcing a high res analog goggle made fatshark jealous and see the viability of the better screens. So not a fan of fatshark's business ethic. Also repeated requests from fatshark users (like simply adding a power button) were always ignored by fatshark for claims of not wanting to mess with a good design. Orqa on the other hand did the opposite, they asked what everyone wanted in a pair of fpv goggles and put as much as they could into them. Bardwell said it would be cool to record his voice while flying, a few months later orqa announced that the headphone jack would work for a headset with mic and now dvr could record your voice while flying. Fatshark does nothing like that. Botgrinder makes use of orqa's ability to live stream the goggle video, with his cell phone I think) Joshua Bardwell has done some video's about the VS decision. Lots of good info about orqa's and orqa's vs hod2. Links below:
interview with orqa CEO: ruclips.net/video/Iagv45f-Tlo/видео.html
orqa vs hdo2: ruclips.net/video/rWcTcIT5Vm4/видео.html
best goggle 2021: ruclips.net/video/H7JKUMDe6kc/видео.html
If you youtube search "hdo2 vs orqa" you will get some more video's with other perspectives of the same comparison. Good luck with your decision! (either way you'll get a really good pair of goggles)
Yes range is all about the receiver and antennas, that's correct as far as I know.
I made a 7 inches today. Except for the battery and the gopro, it weighs 584g. All add up to 1353g. The motor used is RCINPOWER2806 1350kv. I don’t know the speed. I probably use 40 throttle to fly in the air and use a c6 6s6000mah battery. Flight time Only 17 minutes. What about your battery life and weight?
That is similar to my results. Also similar weights as well, my setup is 1330g all together. I get about 18 min if I fly a mountain and maybe 2 min more if it's flat terrain. I would think you might get a little more flight time though. How low did you go down with your battery voltage by the end? With my flight times that's if I use ALL of the battery. Do you have you current meter calibrated accurately? I always have the mah usage on in my OSD. Did you get 6000 mah or close to it out of your battery? (if you want to ask another question use a new comment, it's much easier to find than a reply)
@@FalconRadFPV I finally put it to 2.8v, and the consumption of milliamperes is almost the same as the actual number. I will try again today.
@@FalconRadFPV I haven't tested it on the mountain yet. I think I can use the approximate throttle to simulate the flight time up the mountain, and finally try the ground flight. I can’t see the throttle display in the osd you are flying. How much throttle will you use when you go up the mountain?
Great build Video. It will help me a lot👍🏻 How will I charge these Li-ion Batteries?
Glad to hear it!
Same way you do your lipos, just check if the li-ions charge to 4.15 or 4.2 volts and adjust your charger to what you need. Lipos and li-ion charge the same but li-ion just charge usually at a lower amperage.
At the end of the video there is a note about charging, but Garrets answer says basically the same thing.
@@FalconRadFPV ok thanks
Sorry if I missed this, what’s the flight time of your packs?
1.3 kg all up including a hero 6, and I get 16 to 18 min but that also includes a 2km altitude gain (I always fly mountains) probably add 5 min without the 2km high mountain. Or about 10 or 11 min of light to medium freestlye type flying. Although it's not well suited for it with the heavy weight.
What is the red table mat called?
It's just a sheet of what I thought was just silicone, but it seems to hold a static charge so I'll swap it out for a cutting mat before starting to build a quad soon. I think supposed to be for kitchen use. I just liked how easy it was to clean and get hot glue off of it.
Hi bro.. this battery can make 3s?? I tried do 3s 18650 battery and i want fly with my quad wizard x220.. but, cannot fly.. why cannot fly ?? I should do the 4s battery? Why 3s cannot fly... Please answer my question. Tq
Yes a 4 cell would probably work better. But you would need VERY good 18650 cells to fly an avg 5" 4s quad on 4s 18650. A very good 35 amp constant rated 18650 would probably work. But 21700 cells would do better. Usually if some one were to try li-ion on a regular 5" quad it would be a 6s 1800kv build that they would run on 4s with li-ion for reduced power but longer flight time. Going from 4s to 3s is similar but I think to do that successfully the motor size, kv and amp tolerance of the li-ion cells all need to be just right. I wish I could tell you more. I haven't done any 3s long range testing, I might in the future. Good luck!
@@FalconRadFPV thanks for your reply sir..okay..i will make 4s battery use 18650..mybe my quad want 4s battery.. haha😅..thanks sir.
I forgot to ask. With lipo battery, I think we can go as low as 3.5v per cell. With lithium ion, how low can we go?
With a lipo 3.1v is the lower limit. With li-ion 2.5v is the lower limit.
@@FalconRadFPV Ah, thank you!
Curious to why he said to discharge the battery first?
The higher the voltage the bigger the fire if you make a mistake. Lower voltage = safer
@@FalconRadFPV That makes so much sense! Thanks a lot. What do you think is the safest voltage in your opinion?
What is the C rate for those batteries
The p42a are rated at 35 amps constant I think. This and I've heard the samsung equivalent of this one both put out great amps. You still don't want to run them at 35amps constant, they would degrade much more quickly. Li-ion gets rated per cell, so with a 6s2p battery you could pull more amps. (I've pulled over 100 amps from my 6s2p 18650 battery, you don't want to do that very often though.)
Hey bro, what is better lion or Lipo battery !?
Li-ion is a little bit lighter but a lipo has better current handling. I like li-ion for long range especially for the fire safety. Li-ion cells have to pass various crushing, banging and shaking etc... tests. A lipo on the other hand will burst into flames if it gets poked by a branch in just the right way. Li-ion in good for long range with lower amp use. Lipo's are great for racing, freestyle and mid range cruising.
do you use specific 18650's or just ordinary ones.. for example laptop batteries?! Interested in making my own and increasing my flight time
I've mostly use molicel brand li-ion cells.
@@FalconRadFPV Are they much different compared to default 18650's which are found in regular household?
@@Dreez sure... The discharge rate. To fly u better get new +30A cells
@@Dreez oh ya, there is a big difference. Common one might be rated at 2 to 5 amps. High discharge ones are more like 15 to 35 amps. The ones I use are rated at 35 amps constant.
@@FalconRadFPV u saved me from spending 3 hours soldering and then being disappointed in myself 😂 thx
Very cool I just subscribed!
Thanks for the sub! Much appreciated!
You should try with Samsung 50S (5000mAh/35A) +25% range than on 40T :)
just looked it up. Had not seen those before. Might be worth a try if I can find a good place to get some from.
@@FalconRadFPV i have them. Could send you :)
Thanks for this!
Your welcome!
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
can you make a 6s this way as well?
Yes but it just needs to be a 6 cell series connection instead of 4 cell. The balance plug is very similar but there would be 2 more wires in the middle for the extra 2 cells. You should be able to google search and find pictures of a 6 cell schematic for a li-ion pack.
@@FalconRadFPV I found this at the moment I wrote that msg to you:
ruclips.net/video/u8EkRS_c3MM/видео.html&t
Thank! ¶ :-)--~
*Just a nosey question*
What happened to your middle finger? 🧐
Lost a fight with a power saw! It's all good now, just a numb spot on the side. 😉
Been there @@FalconRadFPV ,
The reason I asked is because I got the same cut finger. But mine got cut by a pinched pipe angle. 😆 LoL,
In hindsight dumb move on my part too.
Stay safe brother, love the content.
Great video
That really sucks about your antenna. 😟 I would try contacting TrueRC. I've read that the record for an X2-air is 10km with the vtx at 200mw and mine gives me clean video at over 8km distance. I'm sure if you tell them a Realacc patch is out performing your X2-air that they would help you get it sorted out. Sounds like there is something wrong with yours. Every time I've contacted them with antenna questions they have responded quite quickly and been helpful.
Ya I would love to get a spot welder but I only have 2 long range quads at the moment both with substandard old parts. Both my q6 lite chargers are broken, and I'm trying to make a frame but can't afford to keep getting test versions cut. So a spot welder is WAY out of my minimal FPV budget but If I ever win the lottery, it's at the top of my list!
@@FalconRadFPV It was on 400mw :/ I will contact them thanks for your tipp :D
Yes a spot welder is unfortunately quite expensive :( I wish you all the luck in the world for the lottery ;D
@@FalconRadFPV I contacted them and they responded quick. They said they will send me a new one. They have a great customer service :) I thought I have to make a video where they can see that it is not working correct but they just said after I told them that the Realacc outperform it they send me a new one
@@RealKushrage That's great to hear. Thanks for letting me know, I was really hoping that would get sorted out for you.
@@FalconRadFPV Update to the X2Air :D
The new one arrived today and I tested it with a 4s VTC6 pack on the Flywoo Explorer.
I flew out 8km and over 1,5km height with usable video on 400mw;D but then I was scared to lose it and turned arround xD when the quad came back the battery was still half full and I criused it arround with the same speed (50-60km/h) as before (on 55% throttle) and it flew insane 25km total before the battery was empty :O Total Flight time was 28 mins ;D
That thing is crazy I love it :D