@firstchain_prominence Jordan has been retired for 21 years and still has the top selling shoe or 1 of the top selling shoes. And his brand has expanded into golf and the NFL. If that's not worldwide, I don't know what is.
Listen he already won 2 back to back with Miami. Got scared to try to do a 3 peat and left and just because you scored 40000 points ain't moving the needle. The fact is your job was to score and accomplish as much as the real 23 did and the little amount of time he did or less and you couldn't. He thinks if keeps passing records that he going to force us and other basketball fans that he's the real goat. Nope. That's why we have an eye test. Eyes don't lie.
@@ZulunationFamily kobe wasn’t on a superteam tho and had nothing to prove and just went to 3 straight finals it’s not who all the mavs beat in the 2011 playoffs do bringing up other teams and players is irrelevant it’s about an old 2011 mavs team beating and dominating the best player in the league on his superteam he orchestrated stop deflecting 😂😂😂😂
He’s nothing like wilt. When did bron score 80-90 points in a game and rebound the ball at an alarming rate. Wilt do,instead statistically in the paint. Bron has not dominated. He’s just played all these years enough games to pass Jabar.
Exactly. He womt be in the goat conversation not for rings but for his longevity and stat line. Plus it helps lebrons case that he is more outspoken on social issues than jordan was. But based off pure winning? He cant win it that way
@@MRkriegsif the goal is winning he should sacrifice his stats and play defense, but you know what Lebron wan'ts the ball all the time to do stats and slacks to almost no defense, that takes a toll on the team. It is easy for people that have brain to know that.
Yeah he guards the weakest player and just rests on defense. Watch him away from the ball in offense too. He never cuts or posts up. He saves all his energy for when he has the ball so he can put up stats.
@@zinjgreen3398 He can't win though. Team just isn't good enough. He could play a bit more defense, but his offense is very very crucial to the lakers, and he does attempt some defense, but his quickness isn't there as much either. I mean they're horrible when he's taking it easy offensively, so even if played defense more that certainly wouldn't work. He wants a championship more than anything. Keep in mind, he's though about all this stuff more than anyone commenting here, his coach and team as well. This is something you should be realizing. Unfortunately for him they don't have it in them as a team, looks very unlikely regardless of what changes are made. I mean you're being unrealistic. I mean stats can help, but even someone like you has to understand that a championship comes first with him. That's how he improves his legacy. He literally has no reason for stats to be more important, which is why your comment lacked intelligence. I mean you're partially right, but you're also being unrealistic and not looking at the situation accurately which is why I educated you. Hope you learned something, legitimately actually for the future.
Some history lesson here, Jordan’s playoff record was atrocious in the late 80s when Isiah Thomas and Larry bird were in their prime: Jordan met Bird twice in the first round and got swept 3-0 3-0 back to back Jordan met Isaiah 4 times in the playoffs and lost 3 series out of 4. After Jordan repeatedly complained to David Stern, the flagrant foul rule was introduced in the 1990-1991 season, the same year Jordan finally won his first ring. The league couldn’t stop him driving to the basket at that point.
@@JamesAngler Brett Favre used to be the all time leader in tds and passing yards by a mile at one point. But did people think he was better than joe Montana? No
@@jaydot4956 One guy in the 20+ years of LeBrons career that didn't even play with him said he does PEDs so thats 100% evidence. Not the other teammates or guys that might be salty after he left their team. "The media is protecting him" RUclips logic.
@@brooklynblack9015 keep crying about it, Lebron was already investigated by the DEA and he was found innocent. You can say he’s on peds all you want if it makes you happy.
Jordan was electrifying to watch. Jordan did moves that was god like. That’s why he’s my goat. The rings was just the icing on the cake. I never watched a Lebron game and said wow what a play or did you see that move. Jordan would go up for a jump shot and the blocker jump late and Jordan would freeze time and still be in the air as the block came back to the ground. Jordan was called Black Jesus because Jordan could bend gravity. If it wasn’t for video you wouldn’t believe the stories about Jordan.
@@MrJonnyl123 it would be 4 but yeah... even still he's just not the player kobe or magic or larry was in my opinion although there is at least an argument in those cases with jordan it's silly
So why did he get a trophy for getting to 30,000 pts 😂😂🤦🏾♂️ every argument y'all make get shot down. Jordan was a SCORER of course he wanted the record he just wasn't durable enough
@@chuckEdopemoves and lbj for all his durability is 4 n 6. No matter how long he plays or points he scores WINNING will always matter. This was never a argument don't fool yourself
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 wasn't durable enough to get Kareem record is what I'm saying. If he had to retire after each three peat imagine the durability of LeBron who been to 8 straight finals . So basically u made my point
@@valjohnson7112the triple double is the most hideously overrated stat in the history of sports . When dumb people say " he lost but he had a triple double tho" that ish drives me crazy SMH
@@dadillonful That's a stupid uninformed comment. Jordan was going up against some of the greatest teams of all time before he had a decent team around him. Plus even when pippen came he didn't do much of anything to help the bulls win in the playoffs his first couple of years
@@johnsepulvedacruz6428throw in Barkley, Ewing, David Robinson, Wilt, Russell, Oscar, .........! They all had many ways to beat you. They just had to go up against MJ.
No. And no other player will ever give a damn about pursuing that record. Ask any player would they rather have 6 rings, 6 Finals MVP’s, 5 regular season MVP’s and 32K points vs Lebron’s 40K and sparsely spread out championships and MVP’s(none since age 28). I would think they’d take Jordan’s resume. But these new guys be weird and have different priorities so you never know.
Honestly i think they care more about the money. Gilbert arenas made it clear he would take the carmelo anthony route and get the big payday from a team with no chance at winning
@@je5406 what a cliché. google this ---> 10 NBA Players With The Most Trophies And Awards Of All Time lebron could play for another 21 yrs, scores 50k points, he is not going to surpass, let alone touch, MJ's solid NBA accolades/accomplishments. MJ even retired twice in his prime..... let that sink in kid...
That's because that's the metric u wanna use to keep lebron from bein the goat...alot of yall Jordan fans are phony and disingenuous because yall never factor in that Jordan got suspended for gambling on NBA games 🏀 but u turn a blind eye to that smh 👎👎👎
Well the allegations were obviously always coming. The way the world is today you can't get around that. If MJ played today he would get the same allegations because of his insane ability,.
Allen took DMV test and scored perfect 100 pts to get his license. Bob took his first DMV test and scored only 65. He worked hard on it next time to score 85 for his license and a total of 65 + 85 = 150 pts. So Bob began talking, "Look, Allen might be a perfect driver but I'm the all time DMV scoring champ."
Kareem, Erving, Magic, Bird, and finally MJ. These are the men who built the modern NBA. LeBron is enjoying the fruits of that labour. He has not expanded the NBA at all. The players mentioned before did just that. Those are the GOATS
@@James-bt8rj Wrong. Jordan has the edge over LeBron in the following individual accolades: FMVPs MVPs PER Scoring Titles DPoY Steals titles All Defensive first team selections career PPG Playoff PPG There's more I'm just tired of typing
@@MindoftheNorthStarJordan defense is so overrated there’s not that many guards from his era for him to guard Scottie guarded the best offensive player
I had LBJ #2 all time. But the more I examine his case the more he drops. I put Kareem, Kobe, Bird ahead of him. Not from a stat stuffing perspective but from an impact on winning.
No.... LeGM has played over 400+ more games. If MJ choose to not retire & played even within 100 games of Lebron he'd have over 42k points. Lebron's 40k point achievement just strengthens his longevity, but he already has the greatest longevity career ever. He's also benefited from the era, lack of defense, rules that protect stars, better training/nutrition, rarely playing back to back games & the elephant in the room = a decade + of PED use. LeGm is so desperate that it tells you even he knows he hasn't surpassed MJ's legacy. His need to continually bring it up shows how insecure he is about it. MJ never says a word because he doesn't care & he knows his legacy/is perfectly satisfied with that legacy. Period, end of story. What is that clown at 14:30 talking about?? Lebron has 29,041 FGA's All-Time (w/ the most misses ever) Jordan only had 24,537 FGA's All-Time. Lebron passed Jordan in total FGA's in the 19'-20' season (5 years ago) & that includes shooting 3,800 more 3's!!! The guy has NO CLUE what he's talking about. 🙄
@@greggibson33That’s lies. I think if he tied him in rings ppl would seriously consider it. The thing is sir… HE HASN’T! You’re talking about a hypothetical that’s NEVER gonna happen. The point is he hasn’t sir. MJ is the GOAT. Lebron has played longer than MJ & has still accomplished less than MJ🤣. It’s not a conversation. Get out ya feelings.
Nah. Once he was no longer in his prime imo that doesnt matter anymore. I'd say his last prime year was the championship year before injuries and age turned him into a still great player but no longer prime lebron. Just like I don't and no one should hold the fact mj didn't win rings on the wizards against him or shaq didn't win on the cavs or whoever you wanna pick. Anyone expecting lebron to win championships still and thinks anything less is a failure just is hating he of course wants to win but he's not at a point anymore where if he's not winning championships he's coming up short. Him just being a spectacular individual player is more then you could ask for from anyone his age and his amount of time in the league. The fact that some people still think that they have the ability to win and make a playoff run is just icing on the cake at his age.
hell never be the goat., this debate ends in 2011 when a 2x mvp, a player on his prime teaming up with a top 75 player and an all star but couldnt win. how can you get outscored by a 33 years old bench player lol
That callers argument was a great one!! Don’t laugh it off like you don’t recognize HAHA. He took the same amount of shot attempts in SIX more years. Not saying he’s better but that is impressive
If the fact his longevity has made him the all time turnover leader, on the verge of most missed shots in nba history, most playoff losses, most finals losses…don’t count in the goat debate then his positive longevity stats don’t either.
If being an all time leader in major categories makes your the goat regardless of epic playoff meltdowns, then John Stockton is the best point guard of all time and Karl Malone is the third best player of all time.
40k is a great achievement but come on, Jordan played like 15 years and played in a tougher era. LeBron cannot catch up to Jordan, Magic, Kobe or Duncan. I cannot stand this new play in tournament and I think Adam Silver James has been trying to help the Lakers but they’re still in 9th place. Jordan played in an era where the playoffs had 1st-8th seed only.
It was tougher because of Hard fouls and hand checking was legal. Lebron would have a Lot harder time driving to the hoop when Dennis Rodman is pushing him with one hand the whole way. Also there were a lot less 3s so the court was less spread. Easier help defense.
@@mvpfocus regardless it took him 21 years to make that. Bron broke the scoring record in 20. And when he break that field goal record I'm sure you'll find something else more interesting than that too
@@mvpfocus yall change up whats a meaningful stat and what isn’t based on ehat suits jordan best at the particular moment. Chris and rob just got done trying to credit jordan with college chip wnd Fiba wins. Wtf…
@@mvpfocus also again Bron played over 30+ HOF during the finals while Jordan only faced 10. Not to mention many of the teams bron played had 2,3 or even FOUR hof at one time. Jordan never faced more than 2 at a time.
Ironically, LeBron and his fans constantly pushing this GOAT argument only causes people to not appreciate these kinds of milestones and achievements. We would root for him more if he wasn't unrealistic with his expectations-what's wrong with being a universal top 3/5 player? You didn't peak as hard as MJ did, no one has except for him. He earned the GOAT label.
There is absolutely nothing that he can do to eclipse Jordan. He can play until 50 and score 50,000 points, and it won't matter to the majority. As a matter of fact, each year that passes, hurts his case.
This is the biggest achievement of Lebron because this record is going to be his for a long long long long time but for the GOAT debate doesn't do anything a new ring would maybe mean something
Finals loses.... LeBron has lost 6 championship series of 9. (No bubbles) jordan has twice as many championship series wins and zero championship loses of 6. No debate.
As they mention all the time, what really matters is peak performance. When we talk about the GOAT we are talking about who reached the highest level of play, no matter what the sport is. For an extreme example, if you had a guy go in 100 meter sprint for 9 second once and some other dude average 9.3 for 40 times. What would people care about more? Obviously the faster dude
Good luck accurately measuring a peak in a team sport....too many people don't recognize this is why there can never be a debate. MJ did not win those chips alone and Lebron didnt score 40k alone on the court. It's a team game...smh
@@hooplah.hoops.hoodooyou definitely can measure that. How the hell do they give an MVP award in a team sport? They take all that in to consideration, don't type nonsense.
@@nivbitan1 Are you saying since they give out an MVP award it means they accurately identify the Most Valuable Player each year correctly? Dont make me laugh....talk about typing nonsense. MVP is a media storyline more than anything - dont get it twisted
I'm sorry Lebron is not the GOAT, I half to agree the last dance did open the younger generation's eyes, I never watched Michael Jordan play with the bulls, but I sure as hell got some insight to what a champion he was.
At the rate players are scoring today with the 3 point shot, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else surpasses 40,000 points in the next 5 to 10 years. But no, Michael Jordan is the G.O.A.T hands-down. Lebron is a top 5.
MJ is the Goat....you right the way today are scoring Luka could get aleast 30,000 and I would say Anthony Edwards could get 35,000 the way he been scoring and it's only his 4th season averaging almost 30
Kareem won three straight high school championships, he won three college championships at UCLA and he won six NBA titles that’s 12 right there. I didn’t look up any Olympic or international games.
Kareem didn't have any Olympic or International games that I'm aware of. But here's a breakdown of his championship wins/losses along with MJ and LBJ since they are mentioned. MICHAEL JORDAN's record: 12-0 (100% success rate) --won 1 NCAA championship --won 6 NBA Finals --won 2 Olympic gold medals --won 2 FIBA gold medals --won 1 International championship KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR’s (Lew Alcindor) record: 12-4 (75% success rate) --won 3 High school championships --won 3 NCAA championships --won 6 NBA Finals --lost 4 NBA Finals LEBRON JAMES's record: 10-9 (53% success rate) --won 3 High school championships --won 4 NBA Finals --won 2 Olympic gold medals --won 1 FIBA gold medal --lost 1 High school championship --lost 6 NBA Finals --lost 1 Olympics --lost 1 International championship
He can get 50k points, doesn't really matter. Stockton's got like 5,000 more assists than Magic, that does not make him the GOAT PG or the GOAT assists guy.
The part they’re missing is he played at this level and above for the longevity. It’s not just years. Also being one of one in several stat categories instead of team and coaching.
people forgotten that Michael Jordan did play basketball in college and won championship. He also was the last college player that won an Olympic gold. Lebron will ever never got a snip of what it's like as an NCAA champion. All the points and accolades that MJ achieved in college does not count for his NBA career. Emmit Smith hold the all time rushing yards. Is he the great RB of all time?
No. Lebum keeps beaking recorda that no one cares about while his team still loses. 😂😂😂😂 MJ is the GOAT now and forever. Lebum could play for 10 more years and he still won't catch MJ!
LeBron's over 700 FGM behind Kareem, therefore LeBron is still not the NBA's leading scorer. He is the "King" of Turnovers however. Owning the All-time record for most Turnovers with 6258. Meanwhile Kareem has 3 NCAA titles, 3 NCAA Naismith awards., 6 NBA titles and a record 6 NBA MVP's. LeBron is still well behind Jabbar in the GOAT debate for anyone who can count.
This is a prime example of people will say any and everything to discredit LBJ. The man has the most POINTS in NBA history. Points are not FGM. By your logic, he took less shots but still scored more points. Points bro, points.
@@ValiantVisions314Points are not what we go by because the old school players did not receive 3 points for a jump shot like the modern players do. We compare FGM to determine who scored the most buckets. I'm not just "Saying Anything" to discredit LeBron, his turnovers and lack of NCAA stats are facts that cannot be denied or overlooked. (HARD FACTS BRUH)
It has to matter some or else stats just don’t matter lol. Like if two players have very similar resumes but one player played much longer and he holds records no one else does then that has to be factor in to some degree or why else bother keeping stats.
The problem is we never expand the conversation. What actually makes someone the goat? It’s no real criteria other than people’s opinions. We can’t just make MJ’s career the criteria.
@@Avarice-Zero He’s flawed like every other player. Let’s not only highlight his achievements when there are multiple players that have achievements that are just as impressive if we’re looking objectively.
@vonc5 True. But the reason his career has been looked at as the criteria is due to the flaws, the failures, achievements, accolades, losses, and wins. He has stats and trophies to go along with the storybook grind from the bottom to the top. He didn't take shortcuts to victories. There is a reason you didn't see Bron and KD crying after winning their first champship because the feeling of accomplishment wasn't earned. 2016 was earned, and that why you got raw emotion out of Bron. You'll get the same reaction from KD if he wins again without the Warriors. Jordan had all the ups and downs, all the losses and wins, all the stats and trophies.
@@vonc5 Nope now you are trying to change the criteria to fit whomever your guy is. it doesnt work that way. Goat criteria isn't MJ career, but MJ is the standard because he checks ALL the boxes! offense, defense, accolades, closing mentality, Highest player efficiency in NBA History,
Lebron might have the most points of all time….but he also has the most turnovers of all time BY A LONG WAY, and is real close to having the record for most missed shots of all time (if he doesn’t have the record already, he will within 10-15 more games…depending on stat source)…he’s lost the most playoff games in nba history…and despite the number of seasons he’s played, he’s only played in 80+ games in a season 3 times; MJ played in 80+ games 11 times.
No stat Bron attains will move the needle. He's never had a shot at the GOAT throne. His poor fundamentals, weak mentality...along with bad footwork, no post game....& his refusal to play defense. His game has too many holes to be considered the GOAT.
The fact that Jordan was so wildly popular worldwide with only newspaper/cable tv is crazy. Its hard for the younger kids today to understand how big MJ’s impact was. The Last Dance showed a glimpse of it and his still ridiculously popular Jordan brand does as well.
MJ is clearly the GOAT. But the greatest compliment to LeBron is that he’s the last player who is even in the discussion with Jordan. There will never be anyone else great enough to be in the GOAT debate.
Great achievement for playing 20+ seasons. One thing that has never changed is for any professional sports league, we play the game to win the ultimate prize, the championship!
Rob talking to the Titan fan and wishing him good luck (genuinely) made me LAUGH OUT LOUD I am not always a Rob fan but to hear him talk to the fan like a normal casual talk and still give his opinion but still be respectful to the guy and his team. Definitely a point in my book for Rob I would approach him and say hello now haha! Be more respectful to my man Chris come on! 😅
Let's not forget, Jordan played in an Era with actual defense. The current NBA commissioner has even stated publicly that rules were changed to increase scoring.
Let’s not forget that when Jordan was scoring the floor was much smaller since most of the points came from the paint and mid range. LeBron has had the luxury of spacing for most of his career making scoring much easier. Not many people talk about that.
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It didn’t move for me when he passed 38,387 and it’s not moving at 40,000.
It wouldn't move at 50,000 for u either
Yeah who cares about total points? Was Kareem the goat until lebron passed him? No. Was Karl Malone the 3rd best player ever? Of course not.
😂😂
@@valjohnson7112it’s more than just points his body of work and yes Kareem was goat
Exactly @@MRkriegs
It's never been about total stats. It's about impact on the game and impact on the world. Jordan can't be matched
well ppl will tell u Jordan ain’t have no impact on the world
@@firstchain_prominenceYou might be wearing one.
💯
@@firstchain_prominence you cant be serious
@firstchain_prominence Jordan has been retired for 21 years and still has the top selling shoe or 1 of the top selling shoes. And his brand has expanded into golf and the NFL. If that's not worldwide, I don't know what is.
Lebrom lost the GOAT debate back in 2011 when he lost to Jason Terry
Jason Terry and Dirk 😂
Same teach beat Kobe who was the defending champion
And JJ barea!!
Listen he already won 2 back to back with Miami. Got scared to try to do a 3 peat and left and just because you scored 40000 points ain't moving the needle. The fact is your job was to score and accomplish as much as the real 23 did and the little amount of time he did or less and you couldn't. He thinks if keeps passing records that he going to force us and other basketball fans that he's the real goat. Nope. That's why we have an eye test. Eyes don't lie.
@@ZulunationFamily kobe wasn’t on a superteam tho and had nothing to prove and just went to 3 straight finals it’s not who all the mavs beat in the 2011 playoffs do bringing up other teams and players is irrelevant it’s about an old 2011 mavs team beating and dominating the best player in the league on his superteam he orchestrated stop deflecting 😂😂😂😂
This debate should be done with already😂
It is over, But like all kids they think if they just keep talking more intelligent people will listen to their nonsense.
No. The only thing that will move the needle is winning. He’s slowly turning into Wilt Chamberlain with all these records but not winning enough
He can only dream being like Wilt because they use to change rules to stop Wilt while for Lebron rules were changed or ignored so he could keep going
He’s has the 2nd most finals mvp ever and the historic finals against golden state. He’s done way more winning than wilt.
4 ring isn’t enough?! then 6 shouldn’t be nothing compared to 11 goofy
He’s nothing like wilt. When did bron score 80-90 points in a game and rebound the ball at an alarming rate. Wilt do,instead statistically in the paint. Bron has not dominated. He’s just played all these years enough games to pass Jabar.
To compare this statpadding bum to Wilt is beyond ludicrous. Laughable.
One of the callers there hit it right on the head, LBJ realizes he cannot match MJ's rings so all he tries to do is stat padding.
Exactly. He womt be in the goat conversation not for rings but for his longevity and stat line. Plus it helps lebrons case that he is more outspoken on social issues than jordan was. But based off pure winning? He cant win it that way
Simply playing in the NBA is stat padding? 😂😂😂 🤡🤡🤡
@@MRkriegsif the goal is winning he should sacrifice his stats and play defense, but you know what Lebron wan'ts the ball all the time to do stats and slacks to almost no defense, that takes a toll on the team. It is easy for people that have brain to know that.
Yeah he guards the weakest player and just rests on defense. Watch him away from the ball in offense too. He never cuts or posts up. He saves all his energy for when he has the ball so he can put up stats.
@@zinjgreen3398 He can't win though. Team just isn't good enough. He could play a bit more defense, but his offense is very very crucial to the lakers, and he does attempt some defense, but his quickness isn't there as much either. I mean they're horrible when he's taking it easy offensively, so even if played defense more that certainly wouldn't work. He wants a championship more than anything. Keep in mind, he's though about all this stuff more than anyone commenting here, his coach and team as well. This is something you should be realizing. Unfortunately for him they don't have it in them as a team, looks very unlikely regardless of what changes are made. I mean you're being unrealistic. I mean stats can help, but even someone like you has to understand that a championship comes first with him. That's how he improves his legacy. He literally has no reason for stats to be more important, which is why your comment lacked intelligence. I mean you're partially right, but you're also being unrealistic and not looking at the situation accurately which is why I educated you. Hope you learned something, legitimately actually for the future.
He never lost a finals series.....Never!!!!!!!!....Never!!!!....MJ all day long case close....
Pippen also
@@dparks2856that's why Pippen is the greatest #2 in the history of basketball.
left for 2yrs would he have beaten the rockets?
He also got swept a lot in the playoffs
Some history lesson here, Jordan’s playoff record was atrocious in the late 80s when Isiah Thomas and Larry bird were in their prime:
Jordan met Bird twice in the first round and got swept 3-0 3-0 back to back
Jordan met Isaiah 4 times in the playoffs and lost 3 series out of 4.
After Jordan repeatedly complained to David Stern, the flagrant foul rule was introduced in the 1990-1991 season, the same year Jordan finally won his first ring. The league couldn’t stop him driving to the basket at that point.
6 fmvps > 40k regular season points
How ?? Ain’t no way
@@JamesAnglerLebronze is the Buffalo Bills of basketball.
@@JamesAngler Brett Favre used to be the all time leader in tds and passing yards by a mile at one point. But did people think he was better than joe Montana? No
@@MrJonnyl123 Brett farce also. Stole from poor people in Mississippi we using him
6 finals mvps, 10 scoring titles, defensive player of the Year award, NCAA championship, Olympic medals, Jordan is the greatest
LeBALCO… is on that new juice EPO…
Bro let it go.
@@jaydot4956 One guy in the 20+ years of LeBrons career that didn't even play with him said he does PEDs so thats 100% evidence. Not the other teammates or guys that might be salty after he left their team. "The media is protecting him" RUclips logic.
@@jaydot4956no we not we all know he’s juicing 💉
@@jaydot4956 Bro bury the truth.
@@brooklynblack9015 keep crying about it, Lebron was already investigated by the DEA and he was found innocent. You can say he’s on peds all you want if it makes you happy.
If he won a couple of rings before he bolted to Miami, than we could talk...........
Lebron had scrubs as teammates , mj had a stacked team in an era full of plumbers who almost made the finals without him
@bobbyjordan21 Miami was way overrated. They had a big 3 with Wade having bad knees and Bosh looking real soft and no bench.
@@dadillonfulhow is getting knocked out in the Eastern conference second round nearly making the finals? 😂
@@1stnamebr406d wade and lebron were two of the 3 best players in the world the first couple years in Miami in 2012 and 2011.
@@dadillonfullololol, MJ's first 3 peat he had average players at best. It wasn't until his 2nd 3 peat that his team was stacked
Jordan was electrifying to watch. Jordan did moves that was god like. That’s why he’s my goat. The rings was just the icing on the cake. I never watched a Lebron game and said wow what a play or did you see that move. Jordan would go up for a jump shot and the blocker jump late and Jordan would freeze time and still be in the air as the block came back to the ground. Jordan was called Black Jesus because Jordan could bend gravity. If it wasn’t for video you wouldn’t believe the stories about Jordan.
hell yeah
Dirk ended the Goat debate in 2011.
Exactly
That Dallas loss really kills lebron. If he had five he would have a stronger case
Facts
ka BOOM!!!
@@MrJonnyl123 it would be 4 but yeah... even still he's just not the player kobe or magic or larry was in my opinion although there is at least an argument in those cases
with jordan it's silly
Michael Jordan while with the Bulls had said breaking Kareem's scoring record did not drive him, because if it did, he would not have retired.
Simple math!
So why did he get a trophy for getting to 30,000 pts 😂😂🤦🏾♂️ every argument y'all make get shot down. Jordan was a SCORER of course he wanted the record he just wasn't durable enough
@@chuckEdopemoves and lbj for all his durability is 4 n 6. No matter how long he plays or points he scores WINNING will always matter. This was never a argument don't fool yourself
@@chuckEdopemoves😂 durable? The dude retired twice after a three peat each time. He didn’t hobble off the court.
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 wasn't durable enough to get Kareem record is what I'm saying. If he had to retire after each three peat imagine the durability of LeBron who been to 8 straight finals . So basically u made my point
Like my coach once told me..."Statistics are like mini skirts, they look real good until you see what's underneath".
You would think lebron fans would know this about stats. Didn’t they see Westbrook play? And that man averaged a triple double.
@@valjohnson7112 They have NO other argument about how much better Jordan is than everybody let alone especially LeBron.
@@valjohnson7112the triple double is the most hideously overrated stat in the history of sports . When dumb people say " he lost but he had a triple double tho" that ish drives me crazy SMH
I don’t blame people for having #2.
I have him around 4 or 5.
He’s lost too much.
I think Hakeem, Larry bird, MJ, Duncan, Kareem and kobe are better than him. And If we talking abiut impact on winning I got to incluye Magic.
I can’t put Mj number 1 because he was 1-9 in the playoffs without pippen
@@dadillonfulman please shut up…dumbest argument ever
@@dadillonful That's a stupid uninformed comment. Jordan was going up against some of the greatest teams of all time before he had a decent team around him. Plus even when pippen came he didn't do much of anything to help the bulls win in the playoffs his first couple of years
@@johnsepulvedacruz6428throw in Barkley, Ewing, David Robinson, Wilt, Russell, Oscar, .........! They all had many ways to beat you. They just had to go up against MJ.
No. And no other player will ever give a damn about pursuing that record. Ask any player would they rather have 6 rings, 6 Finals MVP’s, 5 regular season MVP’s and 32K points vs Lebron’s 40K and sparsely spread out championships and MVP’s(none since age 28). I would think they’d take Jordan’s resume. But these new guys be weird and have different priorities so you never know.
AAU culture. Filling up the stat sheet is more important than W-L. "Basketball is a team sport" they say.
Honestly i think they care more about the money. Gilbert arenas made it clear he would take the carmelo anthony route and get the big payday from a team with no chance at winning
@@kant5696 100%. Todays players are about the benjamins and care less about winning than any other era.
@greggibson33 Yea true but Jordan got the Benjamin's and the titles. Best of both worlds
@@je5406 what a cliché. google this ---> 10 NBA Players With The Most Trophies And Awards Of All Time
lebron could play for another 21 yrs, scores 50k points, he is not going to surpass, let alone touch, MJ's solid NBA accolades/accomplishments.
MJ even retired twice in his prime..... let that sink in kid...
Juiced up LeBron playing in an era with no defense or traveling doesn’t move him over Jordan.
Jordan playing in the expansion league era should’ve never been the bar of success
Lebron would have 70k points if he played in the plumber infested 90s
That's because that's the metric u wanna use to keep lebron from bein the goat...alot of yall Jordan fans are phony and disingenuous because yall never factor in that Jordan got suspended for gambling on NBA games 🏀 but u turn a blind eye to that smh 👎👎👎
@@dadillonfulbron had more help in this era with more talented players and still couldn’t 3 peat
💯
Lol ain’t no way Bron running up 43k without heavy PED allegations 😂😂😂
Well the allegations were obviously always coming. The way the world is today you can't get around that. If MJ played today he would get the same allegations because of his insane ability,.
Allen took DMV test and scored perfect 100 pts to get his license. Bob took his first DMV test and scored only 65. He worked hard on it next time to score 85 for his license and a total of 65 + 85 = 150 pts. So Bob began talking, "Look, Allen might be a perfect driver but I'm the all time DMV scoring champ."
LePED had the benefit of playing in a league with no defense, rules favoring the offense, 3 point takeover, etc...
Kareem, Erving, Magic, Bird, and finally MJ. These are the men who built the modern NBA. LeBron is enjoying the fruits of that labour. He has not expanded the NBA at all. The players mentioned before did just that. Those are the GOATS
This debate is so tiresome. 10 years after Bron retires, he'll barely crack the Top 10. Right now, he's just fresh on people's minds.
Of course not. Winning matters the most. Plus his resume is not as impressive as Jordan's
stop talking, you sound like a kid saying that 😂😂😂
His individual resume is better Championships are team accomplishments
@@firstchain_prominence I don't sound like a kid. Watch your lip before I start sounding like your future stepdad.
@@James-bt8rj Wrong.
Jordan has the edge over LeBron in the following individual accolades:
FMVPs
MVPs
PER
Scoring Titles
DPoY
Steals titles
All Defensive first team selections
career PPG
Playoff PPG
There's more I'm just tired of typing
@@MindoftheNorthStarJordan defense is so overrated there’s not that many guards from his era for him to guard Scottie guarded the best offensive player
If you're in camp MJ guess what? You're still in camp MJ. If you're on team LeBron guess what? You're still on team LeBron.
So don’t watch like Jesus 😂
Ur so smart! Did u come up with that all by yourself?
Both are great and I'm glad I was able to watch both
@@kwilliams19582nd behind jordan
I had LBJ #2 all time. But the more I examine his case the more he drops. I put Kareem, Kobe, Bird ahead of him. Not from a stat stuffing perspective but from an impact on winning.
No....
LeGM has played over 400+ more games. If MJ choose to not retire & played even within 100 games of Lebron he'd have over 42k points. Lebron's 40k point achievement just strengthens his longevity, but he already has the greatest longevity career ever. He's also benefited from the era, lack of defense, rules that protect stars, better training/nutrition, rarely playing back to back games & the elephant in the room = a decade + of PED use. LeGm is so desperate that it tells you even he knows he hasn't surpassed MJ's legacy. His need to continually bring it up shows how insecure he is about it. MJ never says a word because he doesn't care & he knows his legacy/is perfectly satisfied with that legacy. Period, end of story.
What is that clown at 14:30 talking about??
Lebron has 29,041 FGA's All-Time (w/ the most misses ever)
Jordan only had 24,537 FGA's All-Time.
Lebron passed Jordan in total FGA's in the 19'-20' season (5 years ago) & that includes shooting 3,800 more 3's!!! The guy has NO CLUE what he's talking about. 🙄
Two guys who dont think lebron is the goat ask each other if Lebron is the goat.
😂😂😭
U thought this comment hold weight? It’s a show dude. 🤣 they’re asking sarcastically. The both know Lebron isn’t the goat.
To work you guys up .
So dumb... even if he tied MJ with rings they still wouldn't pick Bron. Chris is the president of the Jordan Ball Washers Club.
@@greggibson33That’s lies. I think if he tied him in rings ppl would seriously consider it. The thing is sir… HE HASN’T! You’re talking about a hypothetical that’s NEVER gonna happen. The point is he hasn’t sir. MJ is the GOAT. Lebron has played longer than MJ & has still accomplished less than MJ🤣. It’s not a conversation. Get out ya feelings.
The longer LeBron goes without winning another chip the more his longevity will work against him
Wat u said makes no sense
when leBron won his 4th one nobody cared or thought it moved him closer to jordan at all. There’s nothing LeBron can do to pass jordan to jordan fans.
@@cheerioss-9121There’s nothing Lebron can do to pass Jordan to basketball fans, he’s only #2 for people who have only seen his generation play.
Nah. Once he was no longer in his prime imo that doesnt matter anymore. I'd say his last prime year was the championship year before injuries and age turned him into a still great player but no longer prime lebron. Just like I don't and no one should hold the fact mj didn't win rings on the wizards against him or shaq didn't win on the cavs or whoever you wanna pick. Anyone expecting lebron to win championships still and thinks anything less is a failure just is hating he of course wants to win but he's not at a point anymore where if he's not winning championships he's coming up short. Him just being a spectacular individual player is more then you could ask for from anyone his age and his amount of time in the league. The fact that some people still think that they have the ability to win and make a playoff run is just icing on the cake at his age.
So bill Russell is the goat then
When Kareem had the scoring record, did the GOAT debate matter? It’s just an individual accomplishment and a distraction from the facts.
hell never be the goat., this debate ends in 2011 when a 2x mvp, a player on his prime teaming up with a top 75 player and an all star but couldnt win. how can you get outscored by a 33 years old bench player lol
Does KG's Lebalco comments hurt his needle? 😂
Gag order. No major outlets allowed to discuss that one.
Them boys still hurt 🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣 he made them boys retire
KG is Jealous
Just as long as his PED supply doesn't run dry. 😆
5 years down the line we will 'discover' that he was juiced up😅
Playing longer than one does not make you better. Playing better than one does it.
I 💯 agree with you and this is what bron fans don't seem to understand
Wat age was MJ better than Lebron?
Since he played in the nba
@freshprintz7002 what does age have to do with anything?? Stop being stupid this aint about age...
@@fresh_printzmid range to freethrow alone.
It ain't even close between Jordan and Lebron. Lebron might be #3 behind Kareem. Nothing wrong with that.
LeHGH moved a different needle 💉💉💉💉😂
Bron is on that juice !
😂😂😂damn right or unless he a cyborg
LeBalco
There isn't a discussion. Never was honestly
That callers argument was a great one!! Don’t laugh it off like you don’t recognize HAHA. He took the same amount of shot attempts in SIX more years. Not saying he’s better but that is impressive
If the fact his longevity has made him the all time turnover leader, on the verge of most missed shots in nba history, most playoff losses, most finals losses…don’t count in the goat debate then his positive longevity stats don’t either.
If being an all time leader in major categories makes your the goat regardless of epic playoff meltdowns, then John Stockton is the best point guard of all time and Karl Malone is the third best player of all time.
Chris ‘I’m a voter’ Brousaaaaad
The accolades between the two is not even CLOSE!
True ranking is MJ, KAJ and then whoever as it would be a toss up between Magic/LBJ
Same boring conversation lol
Longevity records need more scrutiny after Garnetts comments
40k points is not more impressive than 10 CONSECUTIVE scoring titles
40k is a great achievement but come on, Jordan played like 15 years and played in a tougher era. LeBron cannot catch up to Jordan, Magic, Kobe or Duncan. I cannot stand this new play in tournament and I think Adam Silver James has been trying to help the Lakers but they’re still in 9th place. Jordan played in an era where the playoffs had 1st-8th seed only.
It was tougher because of Hard fouls and hand checking was legal. Lebron would have a Lot harder time driving to the hoop when Dennis Rodman is pushing him with one hand the whole way.
Also there were a lot less 3s so the court was less spread. Easier help defense.
You know it's still 1st vs 8th seed in the playoffs ain't nothing changed right they just added the play in tournament to get more interest
How is 40,000 points a record when he already broke the record we got to use our words carefully they actually mean something
People showing how dumb they are
Every point he score since he broke Kareem record is THE record
@@mvpfocus obviously that's a different record. I'm talking about the all time scoring record
@@mvpfocus 😒🤦🏾♂️ yea sure . Somebody get more points in less buckets & somehow that's more impressive. Laughable
@@mvpfocus regardless it took him 21 years to make that. Bron broke the scoring record in 20. And when he break that field goal record I'm sure you'll find something else more interesting than that too
My thing is why even ask these mj vs bron questions to people like this if there is ALREADY absolutely nothing bron can do in their mind to “pass mj”.
Nobody else won 10 Scoring titles and 6 MVPs while averaging 31ppg. 🙏🏾
Its about winning, who you beat to get there, and your total dominance over your peers.
Agreed, Bron has won more games, more conference finals and played way more difficult comp.
@@mvpfocus yall change up whats a meaningful stat and what isn’t based on ehat suits jordan best at the particular moment. Chris and rob just got done trying to credit jordan with college chip wnd Fiba wins. Wtf…
@@mvpfocus also again Bron played over 30+ HOF during the finals while Jordan only faced 10. Not to mention many of the teams bron played had 2,3 or even FOUR hof at one time. Jordan never faced more than 2 at a time.
@@mvpfocus “James in not a HOF” 🤣🤣🤣 on that note i know that you’re trolling. You had me going for a minute.
Jordan played against trash athletes that could not shoot! This era way better
Ironically, LeBron and his fans constantly pushing this GOAT argument only causes people to not appreciate these kinds of milestones and achievements. We would root for him more if he wasn't unrealistic with his expectations-what's wrong with being a universal top 3/5 player? You didn't peak as hard as MJ did, no one has except for him. He earned the GOAT label.
STOOOOOOOOOOOOP IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT with the goat conversation!!!! ure having it every 3 days
There is absolutely nothing that he can do to eclipse Jordan. He can play until 50 and score 50,000 points, and it won't matter to the majority. As a matter of fact, each year that passes, hurts his case.
This is the biggest achievement of Lebron because this record is going to be his for a long long long long time but for the GOAT debate doesn't do anything a new ring would maybe mean something
“maybe” this why you can’t even take jordan fans seriously 😂
@@cheerioss-9121 yes 'maybe'. Because if the Lakers were to win a chip AD would have to be the best player on the team.
Finals loses.... LeBron has lost 6 championship series of 9. (No bubbles) jordan has twice as many championship series wins and zero championship loses of 6. No debate.
As they mention all the time, what really matters is peak performance.
When we talk about the GOAT we are talking about who reached the highest level of play, no matter what the sport is.
For an extreme example, if you had a guy go in 100 meter sprint for 9 second once and some other dude average 9.3 for 40 times.
What would people care about more? Obviously the faster dude
Good luck accurately measuring a peak in a team sport....too many people don't recognize this is why there can never be a debate. MJ did not win those chips alone and Lebron didnt score 40k alone on the court. It's a team game...smh
@@hooplah.hoops.hoodooyou definitely can measure that.
How the hell do they give an MVP award in a team sport? They take all that in to consideration, don't type nonsense.
Yup. Vladimir klitscho won more championship fights than Muhammad Ali or mike Tyson. Does anyone think he’s the goat?
@@nivbitan1 Are you saying since they give out an MVP award it means they accurately identify the Most Valuable Player each year correctly? Dont make me laugh....talk about typing nonsense. MVP is a media storyline more than anything - dont get it twisted
Joe, Montana Peak was better than Tom Brady’s Peak, but y'all gave Brady the GOAT status partly because of his longevity
how about 9 times scoring titles, 9 times defensive titles and 6 rings, in less in 14 seasons, what are we talking about here, GOAT MJ
I'm sorry Lebron is not the GOAT, I half to agree the last dance did open the younger generation's eyes, I never watched Michael Jordan play with the bulls, but I sure as hell got some insight to what a champion he was.
Lebron is NOT the GOAT. At most Lebron is 7th best..... MJ, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Magic, TD, Shaq, then Lebron.......
No way. No How
“Phenomenal basketball” is egregious.
he has the most shoes tied jersey's put on and he averages the most flops and balls dribbled too what a generational talent
At the rate players are scoring today with the 3 point shot, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else surpasses 40,000 points in the next 5 to 10 years. But no, Michael Jordan is the G.O.A.T hands-down. Lebron is a top 5.
MJ is the Goat....you right the way today are scoring Luka could get aleast 30,000 and I would say Anthony Edwards could get 35,000 the way he been scoring and it's only his 4th season averaging almost 30
LBJ will end his career as No 1 all time in missed shots, FGs missed😅 Can’t wait how they argue that with “he beat Kareem’s record so he the Goat” 😂
Kareem won three straight high school championships, he won three college championships at UCLA and he won six NBA titles that’s 12 right there. I didn’t look up any Olympic or international games.
But he lost 4 Finals ...4!!...which makes all the difference.... Jordan none ..None!!!!!.......None!!!
@@vitosmith8195 Kareem played against prime Celtics and Pistons.... Jordan played against prime nobody... None!.... None!!!!
Exactly
@@greggibson33 MJ played against Dream Team I and II members.
Kareem didn't have any Olympic or International games that I'm aware of. But here's a breakdown of his championship wins/losses along with MJ and LBJ since they are mentioned.
MICHAEL JORDAN's record: 12-0 (100% success rate)
--won 1 NCAA championship
--won 6 NBA Finals
--won 2 Olympic gold medals
--won 2 FIBA gold medals
--won 1 International championship
KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR’s (Lew Alcindor) record: 12-4 (75% success rate)
--won 3 High school championships
--won 3 NCAA championships
--won 6 NBA Finals
--lost 4 NBA Finals
LEBRON JAMES's record: 10-9 (53% success rate)
--won 3 High school championships
--won 4 NBA Finals
--won 2 Olympic gold medals
--won 1 FIBA gold medal
--lost 1 High school championship
--lost 6 NBA Finals
--lost 1 Olympics
--lost 1 International championship
Lebron has lost as many finals as Jordan has won. There never was a debate, it's Lemedia propaganda.
10 scoring titles > 40k total points
He can get 50k points, doesn't really matter. Stockton's got like 5,000 more assists than Magic, that does not make him the GOAT PG or the GOAT assists guy.
He's the Wilt of this Era. Steph beat him like 3x for his rings. Lol
He's still more accomplished than Steph. Steph also had a better team.
LBJ - Great Only At Times (GOAT)
MJ - Greatest Of All Time (GOAT)
Both are GOAT 😏
The part they’re missing is he played at this level and above for the longevity. It’s not just years. Also being one of one in several stat categories instead of team and coaching.
people forgotten that Michael Jordan did play basketball in college and won championship. He also was the last college player that won an Olympic gold. Lebron will ever never got a snip of what it's like as an NCAA champion. All the points and accolades that MJ achieved in college does not count for his NBA career. Emmit Smith hold the all time rushing yards. Is he the great RB of all time?
That Rob Parker stat of MJ is 11 out of 11 in every final he was in
Lebron made “longevity” part of the goat debate .
This a different kind of longevity never seen before!!!
And now there killing him because he turned himself into a 3 point shooter , only Steph , Dame , and LEBRON hit logo 3’s
@@DarenVandeyar-r5t I think I've seen Trae Young hit it at the logo too but only Steph and Dame do it consistently.
No. Lebum keeps beaking recorda that no one cares about while his team still loses. 😂😂😂😂 MJ is the GOAT now and forever. Lebum could play for 10 more years and he still won't catch MJ!
nope, jordan is the goat. period. 6 rings in a decade.
@@drinkingpoolwaterbut also no losses
LeBron's over 700 FGM behind Kareem, therefore LeBron is still not the NBA's leading scorer. He is the "King" of Turnovers however. Owning the All-time record for most Turnovers with 6258. Meanwhile Kareem has 3 NCAA titles, 3 NCAA Naismith awards., 6 NBA titles and a record 6 NBA MVP's. LeBron is still well behind Jabbar in the GOAT debate for anyone who can count.
This is a prime example of people will say any and everything to discredit LBJ. The man has the most POINTS in NBA history. Points are not FGM. By your logic, he took less shots but still scored more points. Points bro, points.
@@ValiantVisions314Points are not what we go by because the old school players did not receive 3 points for a jump shot like the modern players do. We compare FGM to determine who scored the most buckets. I'm not just "Saying Anything" to discredit LeBron, his turnovers and lack of NCAA stats are facts that cannot be denied or overlooked. (HARD FACTS BRUH)
NO WAY NO HOW
It has to matter some or else stats just don’t matter lol. Like if two players have very similar resumes but one player played much longer and he holds records no one else does then that has to be factor in to some degree or why else bother keeping stats.
HE CANT WIN!!!
The problem is we never expand the conversation. What actually makes someone the goat? It’s no real criteria other than people’s opinions. We can’t just make MJ’s career the criteria.
Why not?
@@Avarice-Zero He’s flawed like every other player. Let’s not only highlight his achievements when there are multiple players that have achievements that are just as impressive if we’re looking objectively.
@vonc5 True. But the reason his career has been looked at as the criteria is due to the flaws, the failures, achievements, accolades, losses, and wins. He has stats and trophies to go along with the storybook grind from the bottom to the top. He didn't take shortcuts to victories. There is a reason you didn't see Bron and KD crying after winning their first champship because the feeling of accomplishment wasn't earned. 2016 was earned, and that why you got raw emotion out of Bron. You'll get the same reaction from KD if he wins again without the Warriors. Jordan had all the ups and downs, all the losses and wins, all the stats and trophies.
@@vonc5 Nope now you are trying to change the criteria to fit whomever your guy is. it doesnt work that way. Goat criteria isn't MJ career, but MJ is the standard because he checks ALL the boxes! offense, defense, accolades, closing mentality, Highest player efficiency in NBA History,
@@norwoodhammond650 he’s not the only one that checks all those boxes is what I’m saying.
Lebron might have the most points of all time….but he also has the most turnovers of all time BY A LONG WAY, and is real close to having the record for most missed shots of all time (if he doesn’t have the record already, he will within 10-15 more games…depending on stat source)…he’s lost the most playoff games in nba history…and despite the number of seasons he’s played, he’s only played in 80+ games in a season 3 times; MJ played in 80+ games 11 times.
No stat Bron attains will move the needle. He's never had a shot at the GOAT throne. His poor fundamentals, weak mentality...along with bad footwork, no post game....& his refusal to play defense. His game has too many holes to be considered the GOAT.
The fact that Jordan was so wildly popular worldwide with only newspaper/cable tv is crazy. Its hard for the younger kids today to understand how big MJ’s impact was. The Last Dance showed a glimpse of it and his still ridiculously popular Jordan brand does as well.
If you have to keep convincing people that LeBron is the GOAT than obviously he's not the GOAT.
Makes sense… common sense type stuff huh
When it was Mj people just said he was the goat without him saying anything too and didn’t really even have to do stats either just from eye test…
I don’t think lebron had a team that had one goal and plays just to try to stop him like u know who
Lebron is also the all time turnover leader and he keeps raising that bar every game too!
Can y’all bring up PEDS!
Everyone is Afraid!
What do you wanf them to say?
Y’all talk bout this every other week. NEXT
LeBron James fan boys in here really hurt ha ha ha😂
always
He can get to 50K and play 30 seasons if he has 4 rings its make it worse
nonsensical
Exactly
MJ is clearly the GOAT. But the greatest compliment to LeBron is that he’s the last player who is even in the discussion with Jordan. There will never be anyone else great enough to be in the GOAT debate.
Yea MJ is the goat......LeBron is #2 the 40,000 doesn't move the needle at all.....LeBron is the greatest of this generation but not all time
Great achievement for playing 20+ seasons. One thing that has never changed is for any professional sports league, we play the game to win the ultimate prize, the championship!
Rob talking to the Titan fan and wishing him good luck (genuinely) made me LAUGH OUT LOUD I am not always a Rob fan but to hear him talk to the fan like a normal casual talk and still give his opinion but still be respectful to the guy and his team. Definitely a point in my book for Rob I would approach him and say hello now haha! Be more respectful to my man Chris come on! 😅
Michael took 3 more shots per game than Lebron, But Lebron took 5000 more 3s than Jordan. So it’s damn if you do, damn if you don’t…
Does he lead even a single stat per game?
Let's not forget, Jordan played in an Era with actual defense. The current NBA commissioner has even stated publicly that rules were changed to increase scoring.
Which one is better to have?
A Player winning 10 Regular Season MVPs vs a Player winning 6 Championships without losing?
6 championships without losing
This debate is annoying and old now
The real question is why are media folk afraid to just be plain and blut about Lebron.. but choose to soften the ground when criticizing him.
Let’s not forget that when Jordan was scoring the floor was much smaller since most of the points came from the paint and mid range. LeBron has had the luxury of spacing for most of his career making scoring much easier. Not many people talk about that.