The Truth about EV vs ICE Fire Risks. Apparently.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2025
- In this video we're diving into a Guardian article which is the first in a series of 'Mythbusting' articles that aim to establish the TRUE TRUTH about EVs. So I guess this is the first in a new series of Geoff videos!
First up we're looking at the M6 lorry fire from this morning (which turned out to be a Mercedes Sprinter van but we still have some hilarious comments to digest) before we get into the meat of the article.
We'll be looking at what the Guardian are saying, and then looking briefly at the organisations behind the organisations they are quoting... You won't be surprised to find some familiar names here!
After that we're getting into the official advice on dealing with EV and ICE car fires, and this is absolutely a serious video throughout.
May contain electric eels, fish and chips and quite a lot of laughing.
#EV #News #ULEZ
Read other articles saying basically the same. However, when you go to their sources (Fire service reports)...
1) they tend to use 2019 data. Not sure why.
2) They refer to the vehicles they were called to - and ICE fires are ANY ICE, not just cars. So that car transporter you showed? That's probably an ICE, so that's what they got called to. Doesn't matter the cause, it's the main vehicle they report.
3) 65% of ICE vehicle fires are arson. Kind of important when they refer to the number of ICE fires and compare them to EV fires.
4) They don't report the age of the vehicle, or if it was a manufacturing defect. Affects EV fires, too, but we don't have that many old EV's (yet) and they're not being subjected to after marked modifications that might not be particularly safe.
Over all, it's an apples to avocardo comparison. Instead, they should compare car only fires, within the first 5 years. That would give a much better comparison between EV's and ICE's. But they won't because they've got big scary numbers to say 'ICE = BAD, EV = Good!'
Frickin love this comment so I am pinning it! Anyone reading this, hit a LIKE on the comment above and gimme a subscribe 👍👍
The fire report is useless anyway as fire chief andrew hopkinson was leaned on by the higher ups to lie in his report,The "hybrid" range rover is been covered up.
1) 2022 data. The US averages 170,000 car fires every year. EVs made up 0.7% of cars on the road in the US last year. If EVs caught on fire as often as ICEVs, one would expect 1200 EV fires. US Insurance companies reported 23.
3) without data on how many EV fires are arson, that bit of data isn’t usable. Apples to apples and all of that.
4) age is a factor in about 3/4 of car fires. So still not enough to explain the widely accepted 30x difference in fire rates.
Yes, but something that hardly anyone comments on. EV's are all quite new. When comparing 'fires' we should ONLY count ICE cars that are a few years old. That will give a true view of the propensity of EV's to self combust. Also, as per my above remark. Once an EV has had a 'knock' it is written off!! Whereas ICE gets repaired and carries on. (for years)
5 years, LOL, as soon as you Steve makes the rules it sways the results in your favour. Plenty of brainwashing here.
When I had an engine fire in a petrol car towing a caravan, caused by an oil leak dripping on the manifold. I drove over a mile trailing smoke, to get the car off the A30 and into a layby..... then extinguished the fire with a bottle of Coke!
Legend.👍
A Bottle of coke ? didn't know that they made 100,000 ltrs sizes / or is that for EV owners ?
@@YllaStar95970- 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍
Most excellent 😂
@@zeroone5097 - great idea, a 50000L Full submersion drop-in tank in every layby for automated Vehicular fire control.. Sponsored by CocaCola.
As a retired Firefighter I had the pleasure to be on the ALP above a scrapyard fire which burnt for weeks. I was looking down and trying to shot water on to it. I was looking down and watching metal burning white hot at over 2,000 degrees. If you look at a lithium fire then there is not much difference, its white hot and 2,000 degrees. This is the truth and no matter how Politicians try and change this, they can't. In the end they must justify their job and go with EU Regulations but always Follow the Money because it always follows truth. Why are insurance companies tripling EV insurance! Because its costing them a fortune and next year no one will insure EVs. fwiw
I do not have enough likes to agree with you! That's right! Follow the money!
You are right. Even though we are no longer in the EU (though you wouldn’t believe it!) those spineless politicians are still under their thrall. Britain could steal an advantage for our few remaining car makers by letting them carry on with petrol cars.
They blather on about the myth of climate change ignoring the fact that Britain is a tiny country and ranks 56 in the table of carbon producing countries.
The metal likely to burn are the magnesium n aluminium alloy rims , also the aluminium alloy engine blocks and pistons . I'm thinking if enough large mass of steel gets up to critical temperature, then it's on baby . For My fire when I lost all my old Japanese motorbikes, the fire investigators said Japanese alloys burn well but not so the British alloys .
Yeah, but don’t for a minute think that insurance price increases won’t be passed onto the rest of us.
It will be a 'chicken or go' game because every company wants to make money and if a company can refuse to directly insure EVs, they'll be able to offer lower premiums. EV insurance refusals is already the policy of some UK companies evidently. Trouble is, we WILL all pay in the end.......@@martinlang9615
Never been a burning ambition of mine to own a EV.
Electric scooters are very disposable
Ba Da Boom
😂🤣
👏👏👏
boooooooooo
😂😂
LMFHO brilliant comment 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I can't recall insurance companies ever blanket refusing to insure ICE cars, or ICE car manufacturers advising not to keep the car in an integral (to your house) garage!
Ford Sierra Cosworth in 1990s - you can apologise later.
@@derekr1113 That's not a blanket coverage... and besides all cosworths were sold and most of them were on the road... you can apologise later
@@derekr1113 , those types of bans were usually driver, postcode or Low risk insurance company issues - mostlyvdriver demographic...
not true @@derekr1113
Range rovers in london😂😂😂
Me again. My friend worked until recently as a trainer for a lithium battery company - he was training fire brigade personnel. The advice they give to first responders attending an EV collision is to keep clear of the body of the car for up to 15 minutes because of the risk of serious shocks. That means not using the jaws of life to cut open a vehicle for 15 minutes.
Jesus, people won't die in 15 minutes?? ...🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
O M G ! SERIOUSLY!! Holy moly - and God help any Good Samaritan who instinctively tries to help!
Why would you get shocked? You would have to be earthed or touching the 0 volts side of the battery.. I think your telling porkies. Firemen are told where the main fuse disconnect is located and where the you can cut without chopping cables.
@@crumbschief5628 what are you debating here? does it or does it not any return path of the high voltage comes at any point or POSE any risk to BECOME LIVE through you body, in case of an (serious) accident? What do you think? There is no risk by being near 500 VDC and getting electrocuted being near some LIVE PARTS OF AN ELECTRIC CAR../ but NO, in contrary (according to you) it is perfectly safe...!!
probably a perspective of a keyboard_warrior..
@@MrFryfish I never said it was safe, but 0v is via cable (not car body) so if you are isolated it will not arc to you. The human body does have some capacitance so to be safe, insulated gloves and make the car safe by pulling the main fuse, the fire brigade are provided with this data but there is a demand for a central database and standardisation of where the fuse and cut points are.
If you substitute the word “propaganda” for the word “think tank” then much of this guff makes sense.
Brilliant use of the word "guff" mate 👌
Would an EV immersed in a think tank stop burning?
And if it has 'intelligence' in its title you can be sure it has none. A bit like allthose 'democratic' republics.
I want to be a think tanker .
What are the qualifications needed ? .
Notice WEF lot don't use EVs.
Where is this Climate Crisis? Not seen it yet. Anyone would think we were being lied to…..
Not in the UK, we had a shite summer , must have been 5 degrees down on average from last year's scorcher.
All a load of bollocks, control grab BS
@@topfuelteddyyeah but it's no longer about warming, they now claim any weather is a climate emergency
Tim, no logical questions allowed, my friend. Only brain washing wanted.
Respect!
@@zmirc - thank you. I constantly challenge the Climate Crisis Clowns on Social Media, to provide me with JUST ONE visible manifestation of this Climate Crisis. Nothing. Not a word. No answer.
I have witnessed an electric bus burst into flames while it was full of people and stationary at a stop. I have NEVER witnessed an ICE vehicle spontaneously combust like that thing did.
There are a lot of EVs in our area. Colorado, where I live, has a 17% EV adoption rate. I've never seen an EV fire. But about a week ago, I did see a gas/petrol car burned to a crisp on a road about 3 miles from my home.
I couldn’t count how many bus fires i have seen.
@@777Outrigger , yes I see burned out ICE cars all the time, nearly 100% are joyriden "musclecars" stolen by Yobs, ie. youth criminal arson or insurance fraud. (Rich Rebuilds has intimated recently that some/many/the occasional- older EVs are potentially being (frau- cough- dulently) insurance claimed via minor -nonhuman injuring-, low velocity accidents, in order to avoid big losses in ressle or battery faults... No stats as to "real cause" is available... Highly sinistra, must be all the lefties...
The spontaneous, non operating, combustion (esp. during storage or transport- EVs traction battery should be "fireloop isolated" during transport) needs to be filtered out of "other causes" of non sinistra extra-motive combustion.
Garbage trucks and other older, heavily utilised, poorly maintained complex trucks also burn out periodically (secondary to hydraulic faults- or secondary fuelling issues onto hot DPFs, exhaust pipes or similar maintenance issues ..)
I have seen it several times and had it happen to me in a 2 week old car. ICE cars catch fire a LOT. In the UK @ every thirty minutes one goes up.
As long as we're doing our little anecdotes about car fires, I tell you this one.... 25 yrs ago, I pulled a teenage girl out of a burning Toyota. I happened on the scene before the first responders. .. Her sister was in the car, and I couldn't get her out. The car finally did a small explosion and literally burned to a crisp. I was devastated. The first responders told me I couldn't have gotten her out. .... So let's stop with the EV fire baloney. They catch fire at 1/10th the rate of gas cars.
Hi Geoff! Norway talking. Yes, we are quite wealthy according to world statistics. BUT we would not have had so many EVs if it wasn't for them being heavily subsidised. If they were to have the same taxes we wouldn't be mentioned...at all.
That being said I seriously posted this comment to point out that the gasses from a burning EV battery are dangerously lethal. I will search and come back with the swedish report I have read a couple of years ago!
Agreed the toxic fumes are terrifying
NO vehicle should be subsidised. The only reason they have sold at all. Take away subsidies, charge them the same road user taxes and charge them the same amount for registration as a big car or SUV and they will all go away very quickly.
Subsidies are imposed solely as part of nudge unit thinking
Yes I’m sure it’ll be the insurance companies that finally put the boot into EVs
Australian insurance companies are fighting for ev business. TV adverts everyday.
@@MikeJones-mz5ig They may rue the day. If they try to put up everyone else's premiums to cover this shit, we will just move to insurers that refuse to insure EVs. You can be pretty sure they are not all dickheads.
I personally think that it will be a fire on something like a ferry ship in the middle of a sea somewhere and it turning into a catastrophe... then that will be the beginning of the end...
There’s very little claim history to support your view. The next time you fly anywhere the cabin will be full of people using their lithium powered devices. Also the emergency power backup on board the plane will in all,probability be from lithium batteries.
@@AlanWilliams-su4bs Probability? Well they either are or aren't, if you are going to diss someone's post at least have the facts.
There's a new EV Hearse dual purpose, out for sale today.
I spokesman for the funeral industry said it a big step for the funeral industry.
Its a Hearse and crematorium in one.
Just imagine if it were to catch fire, oh the memes.....😂
100% pure propaganda by the Guardian, what else would you expect?
do you think that have any choice?? Look at CV19.. The Dot Com bust, the '08 GFC - it's always the same. Lies, lies and damned lies
The Guardian is the lefty woke propaganda machine that should not be taken seriously. Better to get your news from the Beano than that joke
Heat pump costs, heat pump noise, EV fires, EV costs etc etc are all the go to Guardian slow news day headlines
Never known the Grauniad to get anything right, not even progapanda.
It amazes me that people still read or believe the Guardian or Telegraph.
I'm assuming The Guardian are as good at reading fire statistics as they are crime statistics
They can read??
Only straight white men commit crimes. They have simply changed the definition of ‘crime’
See how they do that?
You can download and examine the UK government Vehicle Fire Dataset from 2021. In this it states that the majority of ICE fires are arson, often to try and destroy forensic evidence. It does not say much beyond the numbers with regards to economic cost to the country or the environmental costs. The best source of economic costs is probably the insurers who are having to stump up the cost of repair and people's lost earnings. An indication of the economic cost is the insurance rates that are specific to EVs. It does confirm that there are more ICE fires per 100000 vehicles than there are in EVs but states that the fires are often due to the age of the vehicle and poor maintenance, rubber hoses, seals or gaskets perishing for example. Maybe a mandatory replacement of a few critical perishable parts when an ICE reaches something like 10 years old would cut this figure right down.
Here's some fire statistics from an insurance company. Hybrids suck, ice not as much, but ev's seems good. Enjoy
has anyone tried lighting up diesel ? it doesn't want to burn even when you try with a lit match
I remember my tractor maintenance teacher throwing a fag in a pool of diesel and leaping to one side as absolutely nothing happened 😂
Try lighting up any car, it's full of burny stuff.
Next you will be saying all diesel cars are fireproof.
Yes all cars will burn but a EV burns alot alot worse @@grouchthatbarx
Well said. My old A3 burst into flames when parked. Fire service thought it was electrical fault in heater fan. As you say the interior went up very quickly.@@grouchthatbarx
I have diesel in a primus stove and the preheating takes 2 minute with a meths spirits fire
When it comes to fire risk I'd rather sit in a Diesel car than in an EV or petrol.
ONCE diesel gets alight it burns hotter and filthier than petrol. BUT is a lot harder to light.
@@ldnwholesale8552...bullshit!
@@ldnwholesale8552 Self cleaning DPF systems have entered the chat...
No difference in an impact accident. Petrol or diesel combined with a hot engine will ignite and diesel will burn longer.
@@garywebster6453 ...bullshit. thousands of accidents happen every day, without ice vehicles bursting into flame!!
When Jasper carrot used to read out car insurance claims it was so funny but true.He could have a field day with these Ev.
Remember he used too say the ultimate goal for a reliant robin three wheeler owner was too gets speeding ticket 😂
The bus was 5 minutes early!
I drove into my driveway and hit a tree I haven't got.
@@thesheepman220 I’ve nothing against women drivers they are just like any normal psychopath 😂.I don’t think he would be able to say it now.
For a “detailed” ,almost comic book look at how to treat a burning EV, I think they missed out a crucial point. They burn so much hotter than a regular car fire that they can compromise reinforced concrete….but that’s of little consequence 😂
Ice cars don’t melt concrete beams
No, they really can’t. The “hotter” fire is because the individual cells do burn hotter. But it is like a flare that burns very hot but in a localized area. The total energy of the fire is basically the same ICEV or BEV.
And as we saw in Luton, regular gas and diesel cars burn hot enough to compromise reinforced concrete.
@@Theweouthereforrealclub-they did in Luton.
@@williammeek4078 Typical temperatures reached in vehicle fires. BEV 2760 degrees Celsius. Petrol 815 degrees Celsius.
@@williammeek4078 , this is actually true, it is possible for bulk leaking liquid fuel to flow, pool and do a lot of -hot torch like- damage, the incidents are exceedingly rare (where bulk fuel is stored, bunding to prevent structural damage should be installed). The fire initiation event/ condition is obviously of concern... (Very rare for a newish, well maintained, parked, unattended ICE- only car/ vehicle to incinerate itself or anything else.). It is ok I get it, we are all somewhat invested in our individual lifestyles(some moreso in opinions and ideology). I have LiFePO4 batteries and LiMnCo starter packs in my vehicle most of the time, the for me risk is adequately low, the consequences of FU are not.
so here's the thing: during transport, a new ICE vehicle's battery is disconnected and the fuel tank is empty, as is the oil pan. The chances of it combusting while on the transporter platform are pretty minimal. An EV on the other hand, is moved at the very least with a fully charged lithium battery installed. That is a two to three ton BOMB.
That's the thing, it doesn't actually matter if it's charged or not - the chemical reaction that causes the fire can happen anyway. It's *more* likely to happen when charged, but it's not zero when fully discharged.
When a liquid fuelled car is “empty” a small amount of fuel will still remain within the system.
When an EV battery is “empty” this is just a function of the battery management system, and at least 8 to 10% of usable power typically remains, and considerably more than this if dropping below the voltage where permanent cell damage (preventing full capacity recharging) occurs. If the battery does catch fire, for whatever reason - internal short, BMS failure, external source, etc, the physical battery itself (irrespective of any charge it may or may not hold) becomes the fuel that continues to burn at far higher temperatures compared with liquid fuelled vehicles.
Once a burning liquid fuelled vehicle has been extinguished and allowed to cool, it is very unlikely to reignite itself hours/days/weeks later.
I’ve only once had a vehicle fire, ironically it was an electrical fire on a (1987) Ford Fiesta when the Alternator plug failed - I put it out with a bottle of screen wash I had in the boot on the side of the A12. I nice man from Green Flag managed to crimp on new spade terminals that allowed me to drive home with him following me, and the Ford garage were able to supply a proper replacement for around a fiver (in the mid 90’s).
Partly incorrect I'm afraid. Cars are driven onto and off Hgv transporters (minimal fuel, battery connected). I can't comment on rail transportation, I've no idea what happens there.
Yet those fires still happen in car and ocean transports. And still at a higher rate than EV fires.
@@EvilGavYet no one can actually seem to supply any data showing a higher fire risk for EVs.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair...
Exactly.
I wouldn't want an EV in my back yard given the LPG tank is about 20 feet away
The lpg tank might set off the ultra safe ev lol😅
If you haveto choose between an ICEV and BEV, the BEV will be the lower risk.
@@daverussell6399that is more likely than the other way around.
@@williammeek4078 tell me you own a milkfloat without tellng me you own a higher firerisk
@@vandamonium1731 the sad part is, not only is my milkfloat a MUCH lower fire risk, it has better performance.
Follow the money, insurance companies do all the risk assessments and they don't like losing money.
Can't say I have ever come across an ICE engine that has overheated and caught fire.
I thought that also. engine would most likely seize up before setting fire to anything.
The town hall in St. Gallen Switzerland had to be torn down and rebuilt because of a ICE fire. A diesel had tanked petrol and spontaneously startet burning in the car park underneath the town hall. No sprinklers becouse some exemption for buildings belonging to the City. The smoke damage was so severe that it justified scrapping the building.
@@jensbomholt4529 What does this mean?
"A diesel had tanked petrol"
@@musicbruvYes exactly. ICE fires are usually caused by damaged wiring or neglected fuel pipes leaking or coming adrift causing spilling onto the hot exhaust manifold. At least you have the choice in looking after your car, unlike EV's which can catch fire when your back is turned.
@@jensbomholt4529A diesel had tanked petrol?
So basically the same media that were telling us a certain medical experiment was "safe and effective" are now trying to tell us that EV shitboxes are "safe". 😂
Electric Nob chariots 🤣
Same vested interests.
The EV's are such a risk that the insurance companies are waking up and in some cases refusing cover. The EV project is a busted flush and will die off.
The insurance companies are wising up to a few life insurance claims and reassessing their risks to certain virus treatments.
Who is refusing to insure? I keep hearing this but I can’t confirm this is true.
AND, Reading between the lines - I think many car companies CEO's are too. Certainly HERTZ got badly burned by their 'forward thinking' policies... BADLEY BURNED $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
PS - I don't think Elon will be on their Xmas card list for sure
I think battery invention was rushed into production .Once the battery problem is solved EV's could be safe and useful .The Victorians had some remarkable EV's we need a step backwards for once.
I always believe the ' strictly impartial, we don't have an agenda' Guardian.
They’re nonces
LoL 😆
I don't believe anything they say...
Even The Guardian published 72% hike in EV insurance costs THEIR OWN CAMP! And the eco-nonces are twitching like epileptics! The mental gymnastics and COPE is a delight to witness!
Aaah 😌
Even The Guardian published 72% hike in EV insurance costs THEIR OWN CAMP! And the eco-nonces are twitching like epileptics! The mental gymnastics and COPE is a delight to witness!
Aaah 😌
The person that owned the 'car' at Luton Airport, parked their car knowingly knowing it was on fire, but was more interested in getting to a business meeting, and didn't report until him/her was boarding their plane... The same person that was subsequently arrested..
What's happening about it . all's gone quiet
I heard that as well I wonder if it is actually true though. It doesn't sound right but anything is possible.
Geoff is on green screen.x
It should be made to pay for ALL the damage and the costs of the rescue services/delays/cancellations etc.
Even if it makes it bankrupt and it's family goes homeless!
It could have killed people! So a lengthy jail term should also be given!
@@pixie706 like the Democrats not prosecuting their own. But orange man in 5 court cases
My son had to watch a fire fighting training video for EV's at work. His own company kept putting it's own warnings over the advice. "Under no circumstances should you do this" 5 times throughout the video. They don't want their staff suing them. 🤪
Where I worked we had a policy that visitors and sub-contractors should never attempt to fight a fire and should exit to the fire assembly point immediately if a fire alarm went off. This was just in case they thought they should attempt it, we wanted there to be no doubt.
Can you name one that has stopped insuring EVs?
Or any that have refused home cover?
@@AlanWilliams-su4bs Yes there is one. I think it was John Lewis.
@@tonydalton6756 thanks but I think JL piggy back on another underwater.
“When the integrity of lithium batteries is compromised, the energy they store is released as heat, known as ‘thermal runaway’, and this can cause fires which are extremely difficult to extinguish while releasing an extraordinary array of deadly toxic gases. Mr McConville also said that the problem was not limited to EVs. “Many homes are installing lithium batteries as part of their solar panel energy systems and BESS are being installed in underground carparks and in apartment blocks,” “BESS fires release an array of deadly toxins including Carbon Monoxide, Hydrogen Cyanide, Hydrogen Fluoride and Cobalt,” “These toxins are especially dangerous to firefighters because they are dermally absorbed through the skin and no personal protective clothing can protect you against it. “Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen Cyanide are known as the terrible twins. They both prevent the body using oxygen and cyanide affects organs that rely on high levels of oxygen such as the heart and the brain. “We’ve already had a situation in Victoria where two firefighters suffered Cobalt poisoning after attending an EV fire, and have now been permanently disabled as a result. if near ev fire get up wind and good distance id say
just got a picture in my head of a parking lot looking like a theater during the false bug, only allowed to use every 3 seat in every second row.
Diesel needs compression to ignite, its classified as an oil so I imagine it's probably the safest in terms of catching fire.
not true look it up
@@kevinashurst634- well I was chucking neat diesel on my bonfire to get it going and still wasn't catching , only did once I added a bit of petrol into the mix, if that counts for anything.
@@salnaturile8653 Diesel wont burn until you get it over 200 degrees then it burns really well.
The media talks about electric bikes and scooters burning but cars shhhhhhhh!
Those are less dangerous than cars... hmm. Wait, let's see what insurance companies are willing to pay when claims will be made...
When I worked for a very big well known plant hire company back in the mid 1980's I was driving down to Nottingham junction 26 on the M1 in a MK 3 Ford escort 1.3 petrol van with about 85,000 miles on the clock bit worn and rattily used a bit of oil. During de-acceleration to leave the motor way down the off slip road I noticed smoke coming through the dashboard air vents and rather a lot of smoke coming out of the back of the van observed through the rear mirrors. The van still seemed to still run ok well I thought it did until the alternator light came on this was the second sign all was not well, as I approached the bottom of the slip road I pulled over in the hard shoulder. I had to wind down the windows and let the smoke out as I could not see inside because of the smoke and the fumes were making my eyes run. I tried to pull the bonnet release lever but realised the heat under the bonnet had melted the pull cable and it would not pop the bonnet. I abandoned the van and noticed a large darkened area in the middle of the bonnet and burnt paint blistering up and the plastic radiator grille all melting with flames coming through the slats. At this point all the slip way was blocked up both lanes with cars backing up onto the motorway which was causing a problem. It was at this point I was approached by many motorists offering their fire extinguishers. I also realised my tools were in the back and needed to get them out so I did this very sharply and closed the back doors up. We tried to extinguish the flames but to no avail as the bonnet was shut tight, so I ran up the embankment and pulled a piece of 3"x2" off a fence and used this to prize the bonnet up. Once this was achieved it only took 1 portable fire extinguisher to douse the flames and put it out. Job was a good'en..next thing the firebragade and police turned up and just cooled things off and got the traffic flowing again, I wonder if I was in an E.V. if the outcome would have been different?
..just another story in terms of difference on fires... among vehicle ICE vs EV.
In your typical ICE vehicle the engine really only receives a small fraction of the fuel at any given time, and in most cases shutting the engine off will also cut the fuel pump/flow into the engine. Now, of course, the same is true of an EV motor, the motor itself only gets a fraction of the "fuel" (electricity) from the actual "tank" (battery)... However the "fuel tank" (battery) is the most likely point of fire, and as one might imagine even in an ICE a fire consisting of say 10 gallons (or say 35 litres) of petrol burning rapidly - or all the energy contained in an EV battery - can be far worse than maybe a measuring cup of gasoline burning in the engine compartment.
I'm thinking of putting an "EV Free Zone" sign on my property now. Back in my day, as good engineers, we learned about total life cycle of cars. That was the big thing, to plan from mining to recycling of a product. THAT was GREEN. WTF happened here?
I am thinking about avoiding parking my car where ICEVs are parked to avoid those cars catching mine on fire.
GRID GRID GRID of companies..
The art students are running the asylum.
Consumerism happened. "Life cycle" was replaced by manufacturing "somewhere else" and "initial outlay" became more important than repairability. People today want the latest thing, they are not interesting something that could be passed on to their children, and they are are certainly not interested in their parent's crap. EVs are not meant to be maintained past the life of the battery pack, and most of them probably won't last that long. It's all greenwashing, and it's certainly NOT green. The real mystery is why the politicians and greenies haven't figure this all out yet. Car companies don't care, they will make whatever is selling this year.
Comments are like children. Grow up.
14:08 Interesting. As an Australian, and a former ADF member, I can tell you that under the current leadership the ADF is about as woke as a defence force can get. The current Government here is on a "renewables" crusade. A large pinch of salt is needed here.
Just ask insurance companies. They have the data.
Yes, and that's why I've had no problems insuring my EV 😊
@@jeremyradford5103 Good. That is important. The next question is at what price. Is it comparable to a similar ICE car?
@PAVANZYL I haven't made a direct comparison, but 18 years ago, I was paying £1,030 on a 275hp Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 7, and now I pay £1,156 for a 490hp Tesla Model 3, with very similar performance.
It does seem that EV insurance is currently more expensive, but there are numerous factors affecting costs such as higher purchase prices and higher repair costs.
However, as EV adoption increases, the number of independent EV specialists will grow, as will the used parts market. The battery is the most expensive part of an EV, but commonly, a battery can be repaired rather than replaced at high cost, and insurance companies don't like paying out more than they have to.
This is why the insurance has shot up to cover the loss from EVs .
They why has the cost to insure ICEVs gone up just as much?
To subsidize their losses on E.V's of which there are few but very expensive to replace.@@williammeek4078
@@williammeek4078- Because they spread the cost among all their customers obviously! If EV policies were ring-fenced i expect ev insurance would be in 5 figures.
@williammeek4078 insurance companies spread the cost. ICE cars in a minor crash can be repaired mostly . EVs are a bit different and can be dangerous for staff to work on (don't know if the electric terminals are in good order) they have to be stored away from combustibles . Garages may not have the insurance for the space to store them. This costs money. The value is in batteries, so most are written off. A lot of second-hand lease EVs (3 years) are sitting around not selling. Companies are leasing new EVs, so in 3 years more, there will be more and so on.
The majority of the premium is for third party damage, therefore ICE or EV makes little difference to your premium. All insurance costs are going up because modern cars have much more tech and cost more to repair.
Some cars are getting very difficult to insure, particularly Range Rovers and Teslas. Range Rovers due to the very high theft risk and Teslas because they take longer to repair and parts cost more, with parts taking a long time to obtain. The majority of EVs don’t take any longer than ICE to get back on the road.
Think it's obvious why they want us all in 15min cities so they can have many acres of countryside to store all the burnt out EVs. 🤣
spot on - I really wish more ppl would understand what they (WEF) are doing - pricing ppl out of private car ownership.. My local garage has a £9995 allowance against a EV Corsa- but just wait until 2028 - ALL the subsidies, tax breaks will all start to disappear. Then there will be expensive road tax - bc EV's are so much heavier and are 'wearing out our roads faster' = and THEN - There will be a scrappage Environment tax for processing the batteries.. you wait - I am absolutely certain of it..
And house dinghy folk.
They can put them all next to the wind turbine blades, that at the moment are being buried, due to short life span and being unable to recycle all of them 😂
@@CosmicSeeker69The plan is to pass scrappage costs on to ev owners.
Excellent article Geoff
As you know most trucks that catch fire 🔥. The cause is usually from tyre blow outs. Or an air line break to a wheel break pod on the trailer. Which locks up the wheel . Because the driver often can't see or feel the issue until it's to late.
Great content from both you and Lea.
The one thing I just don't get, Geoff, is why people don't undertake a simple exercise. Take your laptop, plug it in to recharge and then use the laptop. Now, while you're doing all that, sit the laptop on your lap (who'd have thought it?) and watch how long it takes you to realize that your thighs are gradually getting barbequed. That's pretty much a potted-version of operating/charging an EV.
As I've said before, I'd love for it all to work out and these EVs become viable and safe. I just don't think they're there yet.
Are there ever ICE fires? Yes, there are, but we all know how to extinguish an ICE fire, don't we? Every fire engine has the requisite extinguishing materials to save the day. That's "not-so-much" when it comes to EVs. From my HAZMAT knowledge (air/ocean/truck) a Li-Ion fire means one outcome - "let it burn". IMHO that means one thing - not safe/not feasible.
Bad news chap. Try holding your face against a petrol engine or the exhaust. At least your brain is 3 ft away in your backside
So true. I was just trying to illustrate what thermal runaway can look like but, of course, that's way at the end of the heat-cycle. Pity you had to revert to the EVangelical insults. You'll never have a positive discussion if you just resort to that.@@derekr1113
@@derekr1113put you face against an electric motor that's been running for hours and you'll have a similar painful experience.
@@derekr1113 that's the engine/motor heating... Take the heat sink off your CPU and hold it against your face after 30 minutes of use - as you said, your brain is 3ft away.
Now for a more accurate equivalent - take a (approved of course) gas can to the petrol station and pump say a gallon (or 4 litres) of fuel into it and hold it against your face. That's the fuel tank in your typical ICE vehicle, no heat generated until the fuel is burned in the engine (or extremely rarely leaks due to damage/accident and gets ignited).
LithiumIon batteries will heat during charging AND heat during discharge, and unlike a fuel leak where you will likely see/smell something well in advance of a fire, the batteries can catch fire without any significant symptoms the average driver would notice, and while engine fires do happen in ICE vehicles its rare (barring a physical accident) for the actual fuel tank to catch fire, releasing all the energy if the entire tank of fuel rapidly - which is what is almost guaranteed to happen with an EV battery pack when even one of the thousands of cells inside ignites.
Most fires on trucks during transport are caused by overheating brakes or bearings. Of course, if there is an EV battery that gets ignited, the fire gets much worse very fast. I have seen several trucks on fire on highways and they all started near the rear wheels. Trucks tend to be well maintained, while trailers sit around in caustic environments while the bearings and brake parts corrode.
Counting the number of fires seems irrelevant. How about we count the amount of property damage caused by ICE vs Lithium battery cars? I used to start some of my old carburated cars by spraying WD-40 in and lighting it. Technically, that's a fire, but even if it caught something else, I could put it out with a cup of water or a fire extinguisher. It had no possible way to burn down my house, and the cars next to it, and melt the driveway without the fire department being able to put it out.
WD40 isn't even flammable. It's the propellant.
The Scottish Fire Service has just got a electric fire tender if that catches fire do they have to call out a diesel tender to put the fire out ?
Hi, yes your house is on fire? Right as soon as we get a charge in our truck we will be right there. Be about 45 mins. Won't be able to get too close though as we don't want our truck to catch, eh!
With 4-8000 cells per battery, multiply that by time and battery ageing, considering it takes one bad cell to start a fire, it feels like a matter of time before a significant percentage of EVs catch fire with today’s and yesterday’s battery technology.
Ohho, so much truth are in these worlds. No one should ignore the stress in single cell of a battery.. if that cell bulk and deform is only a matter of time until catches (electric, internal short circuit..) fire.
@oliverpolden It might feel like it, but this is still just speculation. There is no evidence for this yet. Most EV BMS isolate bad cells. Time will tell I guess.
Data from EV FireSafe, which is backed by the Australian Government, indicates that petrol cars are over 80 times more likely to set on fire than EVs. Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency found in 2022 there was an average of 3.8 fires per 100,000 electric and hybrid cars, and 68 fires per 100,000 cars of all fuel types.
When coming up with the numbers of ice car fires do they also take into account the age of the vehicles? if you are comparing an banger that hasn't been looked after then the risk of that unmaintained vehicle catching fire will be higher than a newer car, (I would have thought), but most EV cars are still relevantly new. So are you comparing car fires equally?
Interesting point.
They’ll do anything and everything to skew the numbers to support whatever narrative they are peddling. Been proven time and time again. How anyone still reads the news after the CV fiasco is beyond me
According to US fire data, age is a factor in 3/4 of all car fires. That still leaves ICEVs at 10x more likely to catch fire.
you can only count the number of fires per thousand vehicles ,just quoting meaninless numbers is stupid.
I have to wonder why the post office won’t allow batteries to be posted and many listings for cordless tools etc on eBay are without battery due to the difficulty of posting them.
Catching fire from some old (Li-Ion) batteries in transit...? :-)
Baffling that residuals on EV’s are horrendous 😂
Geoff , Geoff , You actually picked up the Guardian ? No matter how many times you wash your hands you`ll never get them clean . But i realise you did it so we don`t have to . HERO .
Guardian always was a good comic book.
They jumped the shark with the scamdemic story arc though
And is fairly absorbent in an emergency.
Milk floats had lead acid batteries not lithium iron. Presumably zero fire risk.
They should be forced to drive milk floats!
Not zero risk - there is always a fire risk with any form of energy storage - but substantially lower risk than with Lithium Ion batteries as used in most EVs.
Still flamable. And do burn,, just not as hot or as hard ro put out.
Hi Geoff, whilst working one summer at Listers in Dursley I did a stint in engine test. In order to get round waiting for the flexible metal exhaust to cool down the exhaust coupling and exhaust manifold were doused with...... diesel fuel. How many fires did it cause ....zero. The diesel just evaporated when it came into contact with these engines had been running for at least an hour. Diesl does not spontaneously combust in the absence of a naked flame.
Land Rover disagrees.
ahh, yes, Listers - brought by Mitsubishi if I remember correctly - Funny how the factory caught fire on the first Tuesday of the annual two week shut down.... even funnier that there were some senior management in the building 'catching up on important work' - and they managed to save lots of crucial data.. Now it's a housing estate
Yup many decades ago we lit a bonfire using diesel and were amazed how reluctant it was to light ( we expected it to go like petrol)
I saw a security video of four guys in an elevator with an electric scooter. It wasn’t a very long video and it looked about the worst possible way to go I’ve seen. Smoke, pop, flame jets in all directions. Most people who die in fires die of smoke, I wonder how often that is the case with EVs. 😮
Yes I've seen one like that, horrifying. imagine being confined in a small space with a burning and exploding scooter and you can't leave until the lift reaches the next floor
In not sure which direction these videos are taking us in. Tbh if this monster (net zero scam) goes as far as I think it will there'll be plenty of EVs catching fire anyway...... Regardless of safety issues
You had me at "The Guardian" 🤣🤣
They are today what "The Sport" used to be.
I am seeing a pattern here with EV owners and the vaxed. 🤔
i like the way people think the electric switch that they replaced the mechanical door handle with, will let them out in a fire.
I added a comment to your pinned comment...
Uncle Tony's garage has a good video on the fire's risk, plus the Luton Airport with CCTV... from the floor underneath the Diesel HYBRID on full thermal runaway 2500°C
in order to burn through & melt the steel & concrete floor..
Electric Viking called him a MUPPET, but he showed hugely pertinent evidence as well as burnt diesel demo...
I have owned over 10 motorcycles from the age of 14. Now in my 50's. I've kept them in garages, workshops and even kept my Suzuki TS125 in my mums kitchen while moving house years back. Recently bought a £2,000 Ebike. On it's 5th overnight charge it decided it didn't like my garage and burnt it to the ground. The caviat is that even though it was specified on my insurance contract in black and white they decided they won't pay out. The excuse was because the electricity supply was within a non brick and mortar building. Assessors know the score
WOW - I'd LOVE to meet you!
@@CosmicSeeker69 Sorry Graham to disappoint but I am happily married
No-one mentions the fact that an awful lot of the Petrol/Diesel vehicles that catch fire will be old and suffering from a lack of regular and proper maintenance. Most EV cars that I have seen actual proof of catching fire are relatively new. There is no way I would ever consider an EV. Our neighbour has recently purchased a plug-in hybrid Volvo which can only do 40 miles or so on its electric motor. It seems to spend most of the time on the charger. What a pain that would be to own. We have an 18 month old Mercedes CLS 300 Diesel and had to go to Reading from the outskirts of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. We filled it up then drove all the way there and back then drove around the doors for a week before needing to refuel - 60+MPG. We normally only do about 3,500 miles a year and have the car properly serviced by Mercedes and shall be hanging onto this car for many years as we absolutely love it. Much better for the environment than having an EV built for us as well.
Rapid unscheduled thermal disassembly 🤣🤣🤣
Yes please! More videos with you and Lee / Macmaster in them.
Never watched the latter before, but you two on car content is great... Almost a Top Gear Duo.
Pair of halfwits. Its an agenda they push, knowing fools watch and gives them an easy income.
Have the Guardian got their own misinformation correspondent?
The Guardian is *pure* mis/disinformation. It is a propaganda tool like every other mainstream "news" platform.
Of course it has
The Guardian itself is misinformation
They work for Gov..
Maybe they use bbc verify lol
Saw the article in The Guardian. I wanted to challenge some of the claims in it but, yet again, another article that didn’t allow anyone to reply and post any comments. Guess they don’t want anyone challenging their narrative. Thank goodness for clips like this.
Ahh the Guardian, don’t even trust the date on the front 😂😂
EVs are 100% safe and effective, where have we heard that before.😂
In the guardian?
@@paul756uk2 everyone.
...and interestingly from the same people that push for population reduction to "save the planet".
@@justifying6455 🤣👍
Who funds the Guardian? Follow the money. .
Gates
there's only 6 ppl that control ALL of the worlds media - ultimately The Guardian doesn't have any choice - same with the murder of Jill Dando......protecting those higher up the 'chain of command' - right to the gates of the palace
Unions, labour party, etc
A quick rummage through fire brigade policies across the UK show that they are concerned about EVs. I quote from Essex County Fire & Rescue Service: “When electric vehicles are involved in fires, over 100 organic chemicals are generated including some toxic gases such as carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide - both of which are extremely flammable and can have serious health effects on people. ” and “a typical car fire would require between 1000 - 2000 litres of water to extinguish, but an electric vehicle fire may require up to 30,000 litres of water.” or “Currently, when the fire service respond to an incident involving an electric vehicle, two fire engines are joined by a Hazardous Materials Tactical Advisor (HMA), a specially trained fire officer. “
Other data? How about Honeywell Safety and Product Solutions data that shows between July 2022 and June 2023, UK fire services recorded 239 fires linked to EVs, 83% more than last year. There are now 20.1 unintended EV fires per month.
Etc…
Geoff, you need to do more videos reading out your favourite & funniest comments. Call it "Geoff's followers best bits"
Glad your not burnt. Thank you for your detailed, with citations, shredding of the Guardan article.
Have you seen the hoards of mouthpieces deployed in all the commentary on EV topics to battle anyone who dares raise a legitimate concern ??? Talk about agenda - very clear and open to see what is going on. I had previously considered a small EV for the wife to get to work and back, I am now thinking to myself I don't want to risk my other cars parking anywhere near it tho. Legit.
We are Hoard. You will be assimilated.
Truly. You know... before the pandemic many of us were seriously concerned about the environment and were all thinking of ways to sort things out and to make a difference.
Then they let the loonies loose and now most of us don't give a damn a anymore
@@jiggsborah7041😂correct
@@jiggsborah7041I still have a genuine concern for the environment, and in the right circumstances (for my wife 2 miles each way work travel) EV makes sense, even a hybrid, but thanks to those loonies and the industry itself in the lies they tell I am perma switched off the idea of parking an EV outside my house or my prized Petrol powered machines !!
Funny you thought about the risk to other cars and not about the risk to your wife😂😮
I can't remember many fires in cars in the past which is why the cheapest insurance, 3rd party fire and theft, was the cheapest available. Last year I noticed that cover had increased dramatically.
Has the driver of the vehicle that started the Luton Airport fire commented on his vehicle and the fire? If not, why not, is someone making sure he doesn’t? (Conspiracy theory?) I know he's been arrested but prior to that he could have commented
paid off....warned off
Yes ,strange no journo has tracked him/her down yet
It was reported that 'an un-name person' had been arrested and charged (charged lol) BUT I'll guarantee that 'un-name person' only exists in those police reports.. Fun Fact - remember the Paris cathederal fire - where one brave minister saved some priceless artefacts? Well what a coincidence - same chap managed to do exactly the same thing when the Vatican had a fire 4 years before...
You’re on 🔥🔥 mate!! Great videos, they keep getting better.
I'm here for my daily dose of common sense ✌️ ♥ 🎸 🍻
The thing is as a car guy myself i know that diesel cars dont burn with white smoke… but black smoke… and petrol cars burn in flames and not smoking heavily… so it is ev’s 100%
I reckon Funeral Directors are missing a trick! They should all buy EV’s and convert them into hearses. Not only could they drive the deceased to their last resting-place….but they could cremate them on the way.
I like it
This is from the BBC Report on the fire on the M6. If you look at the photo it was an old transit plus some older cars on the transporter. But in my mind they were all EVs in plain clothes.
The report said:-
“It spread from the van to four other vehicles stored on a transporter lorry nearby, said the fire service.
Nobody was hurt, and the fire is believed to have started accidentally.”
Staffordshire Fire and Rescue crews stayed at the scene to investigate the cause of the fire.
A burnt-out van and transporter on the M6
Thank you The Guardian, that was hilarious
A friend of mine who runs a scrapyard has recently been told any electrical vehicle. This include PHEV plug-in hybrid, plug-in electrics or anything that has a lithium ion. Battery must be stored separately from normal vehicle. This is not because they are more likely to catch fire, but if there was a fire and they were to catch fire as a result of another fire, they would be hard to put out.
It went on to say was they not concerned so much of the electric vehicle connection fire, but general fires that they could lead to electric vehicle catching fire, which means they can’t put it out
I like the video from a couple of weeks ago, of the EV car that has driven off the boat slip in America somewhere.
The car is actually burning under water, and not just a little fire.
No wonder the fire brigade are having difficulty putting out an EV fire.
Because the battery (solid state one) has a "mind" of it's own.. it does not follow the normal rule of fire.. it is an ELECTRIC FIRE based on thermal runway (not that you never heard that term.. ;-) )
Thank god you are still alive ! You took a big risk sitting in that Dangerous car ! I look forward to your next video .
Luton fire may well have been a diesel, but a Hybrid Diesel, and the Li-Io Battery is what likely caused the fire
No lol it was a 54 plate (just diesel) Range rover. Already been HPI checked all over the internet.
Down vote for intentional disinformation
@@EVMYTgot actual proof, like a photo of the car in question?
no it hasnt, the number plate in the photo is impossible to read, the front video shot is soo fake its a joke.@@EVMYT
What number plate did you check? @@EVMYT
Enjoyed that, snd feel safer to go about my day today. Thankyou
I watched a program about EV's that had normal RTC's. Not massive smashed to pieces crashes. Just the minor wing denting 'knock'. Every one of them was declared a write off. Not one was sold back through salvage (as per ICE cars). So, this shows the HUGE waste of EV's. They can't be repaired! But, IF they are written off. WHERE DO THEY GO! I wouldn't mind betting that they are taken to a selected 'spot' and 'buried' . I bet that spot is in a deep part of the ocean. We will never find out. I have now said that I will never travel on a cross channel ferry, or (heavens forbid) the channel tunnel. So, whereas I once used to go abroad quite frequently. Now, I am stuck in the UK.
There are plants that can recycle batteries, but it is still a huge waste of energy if they have to be recycled prematurely.
A friend has recently pranged her MG5 and there is debate over it being repaired or scrapped. It is surely a case of it being not that badly damaged, but concerns over long term safety.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 Hi, yes but it seems such a waste to 'write off' a car which if it was ICE would be repaired and live to fight another day
Just Googled this incident and it says a van caught fire and spread to a vehicle transporter...?
A scrap yard in otley caught fire because of a "lithium cell"
FYI, in Norway due to the overwhelming use of hydro electric production when there is huge water flow due to rain or snow melt everyone gets an alert that electricity is free, thus giving people the opportunity to charge cars, do washing heating etc at no cost. Could this be why EVs are so popular?
Even if ICE cars were more likely to catch fire... You have to factor in that a hell of a lot of ICE cars on the road are over 30 years old which obviously have not all been well maintained! So the only fair comparison would be fires of cars sold since the introduction of EVs...
Not in the UK. Most cars on the road are less than 20 years old.
Why are we comparing fires that can be put out by a bottle of water to fires that can’t be put out with a fire truck and generate their own oxygen. Seems a bit disingenuous.
@@andrewwaller5913 and how old are EVs on average? Oldest ones must be barely half that age? How many car fires are there for ICE within the age perimeter of EV uptake. That's the important number.
@@themightydash1714 The fact is normal cars don't just catch fire unless there is an electrical issue or fuel or oil leak, and then they are put out in minutes. Electric cars won't last 25 years because the battery will be knackered by then and people will just get rid of them instead of buying a new battery.
The only thermal runaway from a petrol car is me running away from it!
Toxic water going into our rivers and seas too. Pity help our wildlife!
Hi Geoff, We were stopped at that fire on the M6 on Monday at about 10-30. 4 petrol heads heading to the motorcycle show at the NEC. I'll tell you what happened. Yes there was a lot of smoke. We were about a few hundred meters from the fire heading South. We were there for about 45 minutes. Yes lots of jokes about- I bet it's a Tesla. When we got going we saw exactly what happened. A van had crashed in to the back of a car transporter. The rear frame of the transporter had impaled the engine of the van. It was completely burnt out. It obviously had set fire to the transporter. I honestly don't think any EV were involved. They looked mostly older cars. Just slightly fried. The driver ( we presume ) was sitting on the crash barrier with his head in his hands. Not injured. It's the same old story of white van man travelling too close. Goodness knows what he was carrying, but it certainly burned well.
Sales and Insurance tell the truth about EVs. 🤣
During the coldest winter weather when I was a young site engineer on a Petrochemical plant, the construction crew would light a fire each day under the crane's diesel fuel tanks because they froze. No harm came to anyone or any equipment.
I've got a feeling a lot of these EV fires are caused by speed bumps. Evs tend to sit lower due to the extra weight and even my bmw 5 series diesel bumps and scrapes its underside occasionally.
Imagine if these EV batteries get the odd dink and dent crossing speed bumps, eventually they're going to go thermal 🙈 like in airport carparks etc (lots of speedbumps there)
I believe this is a worry for ferry companies. Bc tides change - so do the angles of the loading ramps - bringing a much higher risk of damage - you can work out the rest. FACT Wightlink will be announcing the banning of certain small EV's in the New year.
4:15 Always remember the "fire triangle", Fuel, Oxygen and Heat or ignition.
There is also a huge difference between petrol and diesel, I cant recall the exact numbers but diesel or distillate has a flash point of over 60 degrees and petrol is well below freezing. When they do ignite its usually caused by an electrical short that burns plastics and destroys the vehicle and SOMETIMES it might even ignite the fuel but the fuel is normally a secondary fire, not the primary fire.
Well, there you go, the Guardian has just helped to finish off the EV in the first instalment.
During 32 years as a firefighter and fire investigator I never once went to or heard of a fire related to the cooling system of a vehicle.....water is very hard to set on fire....
EV banger racing is the future entertainment.
its gonna be explosive :D
The irony of a newspaper (yes you guardian) still being afloat only because it sold autotrader for enough to cover it's year on year losses. Saved by the main place to buy old cars. And thus, maintain a lower co2 footprint by keeping old vehicles, that have paid their carbon dues years ago, going. Love it.
Geoff, I'm pretty old, EVs are pretty recent, maybe last dozen years. I've seen maybe 10 vehicle fires in the 40 odd years, normally from bad accidents, my dad's car once caught fire due to a mechanic leaving a rag on the exhaust manifold....2 pints of water put it out ! (48years ago, ford zodiac). If an ev's battery catches fire you kiss goodbye to your car......abit like that Luton fire !! People should be factual - internal combustion engines have been mass produced for well over 100 years, these recent fires are something different 😂