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I don’t use them ether. Only when a job specifically says to use a hand shackle. Handling dish network rack mount modulator devices for college dorms is the only customer that has ever specifically told me to wear one because it was a $60,000.00 device.
Somebody was telling me it might have something to do with the humidity depending on where you are it's not a deal and in other places it is. Maybe! Thank you for watching Jan!
Sorry to chirp in but firstly can I say... that was the best fun I’ve had in years watching ‘over the shoulder’ of two dudes challenging each other at pac-man..... absolute great laugh ❤️❤️❤️ Secondly AN ESD STRAP DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY PROTECT EVERYTHING FROM A SHOCK!!!!! I wish people would stop banging on about it like it is a “fix all” ITS NOT !!! Depending on your clothing, humidity, floor coverings, how much you move about, age of components and on and on and on!!!!! The biggest problem is trying to keep everything around you AT AN EQUAL ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL so that no one thing builds up a massive charge that you help to jump around and causing any damage to components. I also have built many many pc’s, soldered and repaired boards, worked with rom chips etc etc AND IVE NEVER owned an ESD strap. Such bullshit!! Anyway....... love your videos as always here in the Emerald Isle. I must confess I purchased hard-drives and bits yesterday...... for once forgot to click on your link, apologies 🖖🖖🖖 Stay well and live long an prosper to y’all ❤️👍
I think a lot of it might be the humidity like you mention, where i'm at, I honestly haven't been shocked by static that was at least noticeable in many years, I know that's different depending on where you live. If I was shocking things when I touch metal yeah I wouldn't touch any boards, lol Thank you for doing what you can Matthew, we appreciate it man :)
There was this time I was building my PC and I don't know how it happened, but I slipped and touched the motherboard big time with the palm of my hand... I thought it was gone but everything went perfectly with the build. From that day I didn't give a f... to ESD anymore 😂 but as said down below, I live in a humid environment and wear cotton clothing all the time.
Hm one day I knew I was charged and thought I'd discharge myself over that little keylock on the front panel (I'm this old), it's gotta be connected to the chassis, not? Well I zapped it, screen went black and the motherboard was fried. CPU, RAM, HDD and all the cards survived, but the MoBo was toast. On dismantling I could see the lock was just screwed into the plastic front cover and not grounded at all.
My argument isn't that ESD isn't a problem... my argument is, when people post on my videos that I don't know what I'm doing because I'm not using an ESD strap... they have no clue about what's going on with me, and I didn't ask for their opinion on my lack of an ESD strap. I'm in a humid environment, AND i'm working on older logic chips before there was a real ESD problem. After they discovered the ESD problem, more modern chips aren't as susceptible to it either. It's one of those things that's completely overblown, doesn't apply to older things as much, doesn't apply when you're in a humid environment... but yet everybody wants to act like they know what they're talking about, enough to tell you how wrong you are. If I've handled thousands of boards without issue, clearly i'm doing something right or it's not that big of a deal in my situation, maybe they don't need to tell me what a moron I am.
Sorry to chirp in but firstly can I say... that was the best fun I’ve had in years watching ‘over the shoulder’ of two dudes challenging each other at pac-man..... absolute great laugh ❤️❤️❤️ Secondly AN ESD STRAP DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY PROTECT EVERYTHING FROM A SHOCK!!!!! I wish people would stop banging on about it like it is a “fix all” ITS NOT !!! Depending on your clothing, humidity, floor coverings, how much you move about, age of components and on and on and on!!!!! The biggest problem is trying to keep everything around you AT AN EQUAL ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL so that no one thing builds up a massive charge that you help to jump around and causing any damage to components. I also have built many many pc’s, soldered and repaired boards, worked with rom chips etc etc AND IVE NEVER owned an ESD strap. Such bullshit!! Anyway....... love your videos as always here in the Emerald Isle. I must confess I purchased hard-drives and bits yesterday...... for once forgot to click on your link, apologies 🖖🖖🖖 Stay well and live long an prosper to y’all ❤️👍
I'm going to go look it up ... consensus claims it's a .... (looking it up).... apparently nobody agrees. Namco Museum Vol 1 says it's a "Melon"... but that sounds suspect to me, others think it's a Grenade or a Pear or even a grape, LOL I think in Ms. Pac-Man it was a Pear but it looked different...
I'm pretty sure pacman is easier at that speed! Thank you for showing me which direction my career needs to go when I quit IT (or win the frickin lottery lol) :)
ESD is a thing, but some people are a bit crazy over it. Older boards are a lot less sensitive to it than the new boards. I've never had a Pac-man killed by ESD. This one looks really good.
Thank you Brendan, I know you would be a sane voice of reason in this discussion :) I'm not saying it doesn't exist, i'm saying in my situation it's not that big of a concern, than you for watching as always buddy.
In 40 years i have never hurt a board of any kind with ESD. It's second nature to ground myself on an electrical outlet most times, but i fix tvs every day while kneeling on carpet and a tv blanket.
Hahaha on the subject of ESD, I've only had one board ever get zapped on me, and that's cause while we were working someone who didn't know any better put it flat on the carpeted floor. Other than that, over twenty years of repairs and no issues. These days I have a little anti static mat I work on, but honestly it's mostly just to have a work surface that I'm not worried about getting messed up =p Keep up the good work man. You won't hear me complaining!
I'm glad a few people get the spirit of it, lol I already had some people rage unsubscribe, LOL By the way, I call videos like this 'mowing the lawn', it wasn't just about Lawnmower Man :)
@@LyonsArcade There are a lot of rumors about why the game was so reviled. For instance, the blue background and orange maze? One rumor says that Atari had a guideline that only space games should have a black background, to prevent "burn-in". Another rumor says the same thing, but claims that the reason was "because color TVs were only beginning to become mainstream around that time, and they wanted to hype up the fact that the VCS could produce color". But the numbers prove that one wrong; by the time Atari Pac-Man came out, about 80% of all homes had color TVs, which in my opinion doesn't count as "just beginning to become mainstream". The most plausible reason I've heard is that it made the flickering of the ghosts less obvious. (Speaking of the ghosts flickering... the Atari 2600 only had five hardware sprites, though Atari called them Player Missile Graphics. Two "players", two "missiles", and a "ball". Pac-Man was given one of the player sprites, but the four ghosts had to share the other one. So instead of each ghost being drawn in every frame, each ghost was drawn once every *four* frames, causing the flickering.) There's a rumor that Tod Frye had an impossible schedule of just six weeks to program the entire thing; actually, it was more like six months. Not a lot of time, but not as impossible as the rumor makes it sound, especially for a game that fits on a 4K ROM. Yet another rumor is that Atari refused to let him use a cartridge with more ROM (8k instead of 4k), but even Tod admits that "ROM was not really an issue. RAM was." (The Atari 2600 only had 128 bytes of RAM. The CPU stack and your storage for things like score and the number of lives and the X/Y coordinates of the four ghosts, all had to share that 128 bytes.) What do I think the *real* issue was? Bad management starts at the top. Atari started out headed by guys who knew something about programming. They were able to guide the newbies. But then those guys left, followed by the newbies they had trained, because Atari refused to let the programmers have the recognition they asked for (you weren't allowed to put your name in the credits, for example). What was left? Seems like a lack of locker room leadership, and management that didn't know much about gaming and didn't understand the value of great developers. There should have been failsafes at Atari to make sure the final product was on point and provide Tod with a little guidance. Whether that's in the form of management, marketing, or play testing and focus groups coming back and saying "this game would be a lot better if it was a blue maze on a black screen" and taking the time to make even simple changes before release. Maybe if they treated their programmers better, someone like David Crane or Alan Miller (who both left Atari in 1979 and co-founded Activision, decades before Bobby Kotick ruined it) could have pulled Tod aside and said "Don't listen to them. It's Pac-Man. Make it black. And let me show you a trick to make better dots and ghosts." The fact that the Atari 2600 version of Ms Pac-Man and Pac-Man Jr *are* better, and the fact that there's an 8K homebrew version of Pac-Man that is *far* better, proves that things could've been done differently.
SpearM75503 Sweet mother of god!!!!! That’s possibly the the longest most articulate and intellectual comments I’ve ever read on RUclips!!!!!! And about such a topic that has no real bearing on many peoples lives in the world during Covid19 times too. Did you accidentally stumble onto RUclips from the Mensa website or something?? Hahahahahaha But seriously..... BRAVO and a standing ovation goes out to you (from me anyway) thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your comments ❤️🖖❤️🖖 P.S. you really should stop listening to soooooo many rumours though 😉😉
@@xxDADDYDAYCARExx Thanks for the compliment! I try not to be "negative Nancy" when making comments. With all the chaos going on this year, nobody needs more negativity in their life anyway. As for "listening to rumors"... when it comes to questions like "Why is Atari 2600 Pac-Man so bad?" that's all there really is. You'll notice I debunked most of the rumors right away. Tod Frye has changed parts of his story several times, which makes it even harder to determine the actual truth. (Which may be because he was _stoned_ part of the time when writing Pac-Man. The guy did LSD and marijuana even while he was working at Atari, and they let him do it. That was just part of the Atari culture when he first started working there.)
He beat me, fair and square, LOL I was just playing around with him, by the way Matt is a Ninja. If it ever came down to a real fight, Matt knows all that Karate Wu Tang Clan stuff.
I have nothing negative to say about your dealings with ESD and am satisfied with this video. If there is very VERY low relative humidity, ESD is real. Based on where you are located, ultra low chance. I have worked in data centers where I could throw force lightning because humidity was like 10%. Always handle chips in a swamp.
Or, in my case, northeast Texas. Where I live, we get about 4 feet (1.22 meters) of rain a year. From May through September, the average humidity is somewhere between "muggy" and "miserable" (as I type this, it's 78% humidity). Houston is even worse. I've never destroyed a chip with ESD, even though I almost never use a wrist strap. (Touching something that's grounded serves the same purpose as the strap. Apparently they don't teach that in college. Apparently they teach that wearing an ESD strap is the *only* correct way to do things.)
I'm not suggesting it's not real.... i'm suggesting when people watch my videos they don't need to tell me i'm doing it wrong because i'm not wearing a strap (or the 1000 other things people tell me i'm doing wrong) I'm just trying to have a good time and have fun filming some videos, the absolute, #1 hardest, biggest pain in the ass about making the videos is a small percentage of the viewers. Gary you are not only that list, you're one of our best viewers, thanks for watching like usual :) We'll see you on the next one!
Oh, Two-Bit Score! A name I recognize - I'm mostly familiar with them because of Vs. Skate Kid Bros., a really bizarre upgrade kit for Vs. Super Mario Bros. they made.
in the 80's this was as good as it got for fun for a kid unless you liked pong and so much better than oregon trail on the schools apple 2 computers. we were'nt suppose to play games on school computers but i was one of the computer lab "student helper monitors" and wore a nerdy badge with my name on it -_- i wrote the dos software for our schools wood/metal shop cnc lathe/mill classes so they let me toy around. there was a arcade in the local shopping mall people of all ages stood in lines to play mrs pac-man because the pac-man one was always broke down sooooooooooooo hot in that arcade place would get soaked in sweat & never had enough quarters some games they had you buy gold tokens to play
I used to go to the arcades at the beach and they were like that, they'd get super hot in there and they just had huge fans set up, everybody was walking around in swimming trunks and things anyways though, but yeah the games got DESTROYED
@@LyonsArcade Yup me too, massive waist tall fans with blades that seemed they belonged on planes haha the floor in those places was always super beat up worn out wood from all the salt water and sand on peoples flip flops. The cabs closest to the front garage like doors were always in the worst condition, the games buried in the dark back never got played lol
Usually that is the horizontal sync on the monitor itself. Adjust the horizontal sync or horizontal frequency on the monitor until it lines up for you, if it won't line up usually the monitor needs the capacitors replaced...
I never said I was Joe, I said "Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Joe's Classic Video Games Back With Another GREAT Arcade Game Video For You This Eveeeeening!" The name of our shop is Joe's Classic Video Games :)
ESD is more of a problem in CMOS chips, on 74LS and other non-CMOS logic chips you are OK to handle them without 'protection'. Refrain from cat stroking and shuffling on vintage arcade carpets, touch something earthed before you touch the board and you'll be fine. However, beware the CMOS! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7400-series_integrated_circuits#CMOS
What does it take to speed up a Pac-Man game? I remember playing Ms. Pacman and it was fast AF. That's how I wanted it. Just curious. Hey, Joe. You rule the arcades! Love this channel. #80skid
The way you speed it up is you change Rom #6F with a 'speed chip' rom... so they go into the code, and change 1 number in the code to make the character move faster.... it's the same rom but with 1 little bit changed to make it fast. You can buy them at www.Hobby Roms.com might be the easiest way to do it, then just take the old rom out of the socket and put the fast one in.
@@LyonsArcade hey I appreciate you Joe. Might be the most knowledgeable dude when it comes to these things. Probably why I like the channel so much. Keep doing your thing bro!
Yes they had some that when you hold the button down EVERYTHING speeds up, they also had one if you hold the button down you can go right through the ghosts! There were hundreds of hacks for this thing, there's a multigame out there with 96 different versions of the game even!
What’s the deal with the cutscenes being a bit messed up? I can understand Pac-Man moving too fast thanks to the speed up hack, but why did Blinky jump down the screen when he tore his sheet? Is that also a side effect of the speed up or are there still some problems with the board?
It's the speed up chip, they cause these strange little issues like that in the cutscenes and the attract mode.... Galaga does the same thing if you put the rapid fire chip in, it makes the ship kill things on the screen faster in attract mode, so when the Galaga tries to lift the ship up in the air, the timing is all screwed up and the ship doesn't line up.
Hola, tengo un ms pacman que solo se mueve a la derecha, como se puede solucionar? Y tengo un lethal enforces 2 que el lado izquierdo de la pantalla no recibe las señales de disparo
😂😂😂Lol!!! Do you know how many pc’s I’ve worked on and that’s never happened?Man 😊everybody kept riding my butt about it and I kept telling them they were nuts…But they day it happened I about 💩 my pants… It was winter and the floor was carpet and it was dry in there and the static build up was in the air and I just called the customer to tell them there computer was done…I walked over reached in the case while the pc was on to move some wires and a static discharge went from my finger right into the motherboard and fried it out … 275.00 dollars later and that money came from my pocket cause everybody seen what happens and heard that snap I had learned a valuable lesson…So maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but it may might be the be day when you least expect it -(Snap) and out goes the board or the chip….Keep your humidity up and your carpet low pile and try not to drag your feet… if you start shocking things or each other your in the danger zone… Ya we didn’t tell the customer what happened that we ran into another problem and we were behind and it would be a week before we could get it back to him…Ya he was pissed 😡
I think a lot of it depends on what area of the world you're in, I'm in SC the humidity is through the roof, one of the most humid places in the country so we never have any static shocks or anything
We (regulars) know you aren't Joe since you always mention Joe in the background. We didn't know you were Ron though, we just thought you were Notjoe Cheese.
Esd shackle, Mask, condom, lysol, hand sanitizer, 6 feet from joystick, ground pan on wall plug, PCB ground strap to wall plug, remove carpet, Put in humidor 😆
And also we need some kind of ESD monitor that sounds a big ass alarm if there's an issue, lol Thanks for watching Vic glad you have a sense of humor, some of these people are so uptight!
ESD damage is accumulative. You MAY damage the chip a 'little' one time, then more the next until the chip finally fails. The modern chips are probably more susceptible than the chips of 'way back when",
I'm not even going to agree with the premise of that. I know you aren't being combative, you're just giving me an out, so don't take this as agressive but it needs to be said out loud. You're telling me I can't see that i'm damaging it, that 40 year old chip i'm working on is going to fail quicker down the road because I touched it.... and you're telling me that because you read that or heard that somewhere. You have never seen proof of that, you just accepted it because someone you respect or admire said it, or wrote it. Think about what you've been told, and just reason it out a little bit. There is no way to confirm that, and there's especially no way to confirm that on a chip that's already 40 years old. In the meanwhile, i'm sitting here with 1000's of experiences and i'm telling you that's not true, at least in my experience, where i'm working, on the stuff i'm working on. BTW, i'm not saying it's NOT a concern... i'm just saying I don't need people constantly telling me I'm doing it wrong when i've been doing it with no issues for a long time, clearly something is overstated or overblown if I haven't ran into it yet. It may just be the weather in SC.... but either way, that's another reason people don't need to butt in and tell me I'm wrong when I'm just having a good time filming a video. It's amazing on the internet to meet an expert on the Electrostatic Condition in my shop in South Carolina and wants to comment on what I have attached to my body. It's actually part of a bigger issue I've noticed, i.e. people see someone say something, and then believe it whether they have any evidence of it or not. Meanwhile I'm actually working on 1000's of boards and have a different experience, but they think they know better enough, to tell me I'm wrong and my experience isn't as valuable as their education. Very strange. Not saying that's you, just talking about it in general, thank you for watching Tin601 we appreciate it!
@@LyonsArcade We had to be trained annually on ESD protocol, and it was in all the literature. And this was on aircraft circuit boards costing tens of thousands of $, so procedures were in place to prevent ANY chance of damage. There is a lot of hoopla over ESD, so take it or leave it. You're been making a living for all these years, so I think you're safe.
@@LyonsArcade I'm not going to take a side one way or the other on whether ESD is an issue for you or not. I will say that Tin601's comment about ESD possibly damaging (but not destroying) a chip is true. Back in the late 80s/early 90s when I studied computer engineering in college I had a professor who not only taught at my college but also worked at a local company making advanced electronics for the military. A great guy that I learned a lot from. He spoke about this exact issue in one of our classes and I never forgot what he said. The traces on a PCB and the lines inside a chip CAN be partially damaged by a voltage spike...it burns away part of the trace but not all of it. This creates a weak link that could eventually fail. He did impress upon us the need for ESD protection while in our lab classes but again, environmental factors and the materials you work with play a big part in how serious an issue it is for your particular situation.
I also don't use ESD grounding... but then again I try to not wear polyester underpants.... i think you will find the people who have experienced significant ESD failures have unusual underwear choices. Just sayin'.
hahaha. In all seriousness there are some things you'd need it for, these old school arcade boards aren't that susceptible to it unless you're wearing wool underwear like you said LOL
@@LyonsArcade Hi Roy, did you ever wonder why some ICs just die and some last for years without failure ? Along time ago engineers in the chip industry looked at the mean time before failure of integrated circuits and determined that the MBF of an IC was significantly lowered by not using electrostatic discharge precautions, some IC like the 74 ttl series were designed with anti-static buffering to help prevent early death. Since then a lot of myths have grown out of the Chip fab's insistence on using ESD precaution with there products, Yes it is true that you can handle ICs without ESD strap and it won't cause a problem, that is until maybe ten years later the IC will just give up and die and will have to be replaced. The moral of the story is you can get away not having ESD as a repair engineer but is essential as a manufacturer to cut down on your product returns. Keep up the good videos I am an avid fan also I have been watching you brother Donnie recently for some great entertainment. my only suggestion is that he wares a lavalier mic cause its hard to hear him sometimes.
It is and I’ve always believed this is the source of computer “bit” (an indivisible part of a whole). But everyone believes the obviously retro-created “BInary Digit” origin, which is ridiculous
I was taught that the perils of ESD are not so much in instant-death, but in eventual failure. Even a resistor can get a hole blown in it by static discharge, but all that does is create a hole for eventual contamination by air. Same with ICs, except that they have smaller transistors that can completely fail later. The "institutional knowledge" also claims that you can get damaging ESD without even producing a large enough spark to hear or see it. It is possible to insta-kill a chip though, as demonstrated by Dave Jones. He took the striker out of a lighter and started clicking it near a chip, while it was powered on. After only a few clicks, the chip was permanently stupid.
I've heard, if you work on something in temperatures over 45 degrees , down the road (when you have no way of knowing what the cause is)... that time you soldered on the board when the room temperature was over 45 degrees will make the ram stop working. I mean it may not be true, but just to be safe, turn up the ac for sure!
Hehe, just repeating what my instructors said. Supposedly they learned from engineers who investigated component failures and showed the exact points of damage. But I think the mechanical analogy would instead be letting a few grains of sand get in the oil because you weren't in a clean environment. The engine won't fail right away, maybe the oil filter will catch it, but you still risk abrasion that could continue wearing on moving parts. Back to electronics, it is true that many modern chips have ESD protection designed in though.
esd that you don't notice producing "walking wounded" parts is true. We traced a series of transistor failures to an nonconductive plastic parts drawer; damaging parts when they were poured in out of the shipping packaging. Parts would be fine for a while but some would fail in extended testing- always one of these particular parts. Replace the bad one, some would work fine from then on, some would fail again. Parts were well within SOA.. drove us nuts for the better part of a year. Problems went away after we used an esd safe drawer- eventually a board mod let us switch to a more robust transistor, sighs of relief all around. Parts drawers like you using Joe are an invitation for problems like this (we used them too). We figured transistors are little lumps of silicon what sort of ESD problem could they have... well, some are some aren't. That said, we had dozens of parts on the boards (building hundreds of boards per year), the transistors were the only ones with problems.
pffftttsss ESD isnt something we need because we working on 12v to 5v i dont think that got anything todo with it some board run on 50 to 100v hec yah you going need esd but anything less than 24v isnt nothing to bother it unless board get wet by ur sweating hand yah would zap ya finger not hard just little n feel like ant stink that all
I think what honestly is going on is the older boards which i'm usually working on aren't as susceptible to it, plus the humid climate in South Carolina makes it less of an issue too, if somebody was working on a certain era of chips, and in a dryer climate it might be an issue. I just get tired of people telling me i'm not doing it right when i'm on video doing it, and it works.
Thank you to everyone who has been helping our channel out by clicking our Amazon link before you buy your goodies on Amazon (if you do)... - amzn.to/2VTtdR9 ... when you click that, you don't have to sign up or do anything special, it just tags your purchase as one we promoted and we get a royalty for it! Thank you!
Get that esd band out lol
I don’t use them ether. Only when a job specifically says to use a hand shackle. Handling dish network rack mount modulator devices for college dorms is the only customer that has ever specifically told me to wear one because it was a $60,000.00 device.
"Not playing to be good, just playing. I just like running the maze"
Such a wholesome attitude!
It also sounds kind of poetic out of context 🤔
I have repaired computers and other electronics for over 35 years now and never have had to worry about ESD.
Somebody was telling me it might have something to do with the humidity depending on where you are it's not a deal and in other places it is. Maybe! Thank you for watching Jan!
Two controversial topics and a rubber joke in one video, man you crack me up. Thanks for the entertainment.
I'm glad some people see that i'm trying to lighten up the mood a little bit, lol
I've been on Lawnmowerman's page, and he really is the bible of pacman!
Yeah that's the place to check out, I love that he has all the old school info too like on the bootlegs and things.
Love the pacman cabinet brings back memories playing this game at the corner store
Sorry to chirp in but firstly can I say... that was the best fun I’ve had in years watching ‘over the shoulder’ of two dudes challenging each other at pac-man..... absolute great laugh ❤️❤️❤️
Secondly AN ESD STRAP DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY PROTECT EVERYTHING FROM A SHOCK!!!!!
I wish people would stop banging on about it like it is a “fix all” ITS NOT !!!
Depending on your clothing, humidity, floor coverings, how much you move about, age of components and on and on and on!!!!! The biggest problem is trying to keep everything around you AT AN EQUAL ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL so that no one thing builds up a massive charge that you help to jump around and causing any damage to components.
I also have built many many pc’s, soldered and repaired boards, worked with rom chips etc etc AND IVE NEVER owned an ESD strap. Such bullshit!!
Anyway....... love your videos as always here in the Emerald Isle. I must confess I purchased hard-drives and bits yesterday...... for once forgot to click on your link, apologies 🖖🖖🖖
Stay well and live long an prosper to y’all ❤️👍
I think a lot of it might be the humidity like you mention, where i'm at, I honestly haven't been shocked by static that was at least noticeable in many years, I know that's different depending on where you live. If I was shocking things when I touch metal yeah I wouldn't touch any boards, lol
Thank you for doing what you can Matthew, we appreciate it man :)
MY TURN! Get the hell out' the way! Oh AND scary music. Awesome.
Good times....
There was this time I was building my PC and I don't know how it happened, but I slipped and touched the motherboard big time with the palm of my hand... I thought it was gone but everything went perfectly with the build. From that day I didn't give a f... to ESD anymore 😂 but as said down below, I live in a humid environment and wear cotton clothing all the time.
Hm one day I knew I was charged and thought I'd discharge myself over that little keylock on the front panel (I'm this old), it's gotta be connected to the chassis, not? Well I zapped it, screen went black and the motherboard was fried. CPU, RAM, HDD and all the cards survived, but the MoBo was toast. On dismantling I could see the lock was just screwed into the plastic front cover and not grounded at all.
My argument isn't that ESD isn't a problem... my argument is, when people post on my videos that I don't know what I'm doing because I'm not using an ESD strap... they have no clue about what's going on with me, and I didn't ask for their opinion on my lack of an ESD strap. I'm in a humid environment, AND i'm working on older logic chips before there was a real ESD problem. After they discovered the ESD problem, more modern chips aren't as susceptible to it either. It's one of those things that's completely overblown, doesn't apply to older things as much, doesn't apply when you're in a humid environment... but yet everybody wants to act like they know what they're talking about, enough to tell you how wrong you are. If I've handled thousands of boards without issue, clearly i'm doing something right or it's not that big of a deal in my situation, maybe they don't need to tell me what a moron I am.
Sorry to chirp in but firstly can I say... that was the best fun I’ve had in years watching ‘over the shoulder’ of two dudes challenging each other at pac-man..... absolute great laugh ❤️❤️❤️
Secondly AN ESD STRAP DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY PROTECT EVERYTHING FROM A SHOCK!!!!!
I wish people would stop banging on about it like it is a “fix all” ITS NOT !!!
Depending on your clothing, humidity, floor coverings, how much you move about, age of components and on and on and on!!!!! The biggest problem is trying to keep everything around you AT AN EQUAL ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL so that no one thing builds up a massive charge that you help to jump around and causing any damage to components.
I also have built many many pc’s, soldered and repaired boards, worked with rom chips etc etc AND IVE NEVER owned an ESD strap. Such bullshit!!
Anyway....... love your videos as always here in the Emerald Isle. I must confess I purchased hard-drives and bits yesterday...... for once forgot to click on your link, apologies 🖖🖖🖖
Stay well and live long an prosper to y’all ❤️👍
wonderful the first successful colorful game. thanks for showing.
Thank you for watching Ricardo!
That "fruit" could be a pear, but it could be a handgranade as well... you never know what those ghosts are up to. :D
I'm going to go look it up ... consensus claims it's a .... (looking it up).... apparently nobody agrees. Namco Museum Vol 1 says it's a "Melon"... but that sounds suspect to me, others think it's a Grenade or a Pear or even a grape, LOL I think in Ms. Pac-Man it was a Pear but it looked different...
@@LyonsArcade Pineapple?
I'm pretty sure pacman is easier at that speed! Thank you for showing me which direction my career needs to go when I quit IT (or win the frickin lottery lol) :)
ESD is a thing, but some people are a bit crazy over it. Older boards are a lot less sensitive to it than the new boards.
I've never had a Pac-man killed by ESD.
This one looks really good.
Thank you Brendan, I know you would be a sane voice of reason in this discussion :) I'm not saying it doesn't exist, i'm saying in my situation it's not that big of a concern, than you for watching as always buddy.
I agree. The tiny surface mount parts used on modern electronics are a lot more susceptible to ESD than the electronics used in the 80s.
In 40 years i have never hurt a board of any kind with ESD. It's second nature to ground myself on an electrical outlet most times, but i fix tvs every day while kneeling on carpet and a tv blanket.
Hahaha on the subject of ESD, I've only had one board ever get zapped on me, and that's cause while we were working someone who didn't know any better put it flat on the carpeted floor. Other than that, over twenty years of repairs and no issues. These days I have a little anti static mat I work on, but honestly it's mostly just to have a work surface that I'm not worried about getting messed up =p
Keep up the good work man. You won't hear me complaining!
I just had to buy a new repair mat, designed for high temps. got a new hot-air rework station for smd, and it gets hot!
This video is the créme de la créme, I absolutely love it !
Thank you!
You guys crack me up playing! Keep up the wonderful work Ron! Love ya!
I'm glad a few people get the spirit of it, lol I already had some people rage unsubscribe, LOL By the way, I call videos like this 'mowing the lawn', it wasn't just about Lawnmower Man :)
I also had the colleco table top pacman game went through so many c size batteries lol
Out of all the games i had for the Atari 2600 pac man was my favorite and i was darn good at it.
Yeah I think it really gets a bad rap, I was playing it yesterday, don't see what the problem is.
@@LyonsArcade There are a lot of rumors about why the game was so reviled. For instance, the blue background and orange maze? One rumor says that Atari had a guideline that only space games should have a black background, to prevent "burn-in". Another rumor says the same thing, but claims that the reason was "because color TVs were only beginning to become mainstream around that time, and they wanted to hype up the fact that the VCS could produce color". But the numbers prove that one wrong; by the time Atari Pac-Man came out, about 80% of all homes had color TVs, which in my opinion doesn't count as "just beginning to become mainstream". The most plausible reason I've heard is that it made the flickering of the ghosts less obvious.
(Speaking of the ghosts flickering... the Atari 2600 only had five hardware sprites, though Atari called them Player Missile Graphics. Two "players", two "missiles", and a "ball". Pac-Man was given one of the player sprites, but the four ghosts had to share the other one. So instead of each ghost being drawn in every frame, each ghost was drawn once every *four* frames, causing the flickering.)
There's a rumor that Tod Frye had an impossible schedule of just six weeks to program the entire thing; actually, it was more like six months. Not a lot of time, but not as impossible as the rumor makes it sound, especially for a game that fits on a 4K ROM. Yet another rumor is that Atari refused to let him use a cartridge with more ROM (8k instead of 4k), but even Tod admits that "ROM was not really an issue. RAM was." (The Atari 2600 only had 128 bytes of RAM. The CPU stack and your storage for things like score and the number of lives and the X/Y coordinates of the four ghosts, all had to share that 128 bytes.)
What do I think the *real* issue was? Bad management starts at the top. Atari started out headed by guys who knew something about programming. They were able to guide the newbies. But then those guys left, followed by the newbies they had trained, because Atari refused to let the programmers have the recognition they asked for (you weren't allowed to put your name in the credits, for example). What was left? Seems like a lack of locker room leadership, and management that didn't know much about gaming and didn't understand the value of great developers.
There should have been failsafes at Atari to make sure the final product was on point and provide Tod with a little guidance. Whether that's in the form of management, marketing, or play testing and focus groups coming back and saying "this game would be a lot better if it was a blue maze on a black screen" and taking the time to make even simple changes before release. Maybe if they treated their programmers better, someone like David Crane or Alan Miller (who both left Atari in 1979 and co-founded Activision, decades before Bobby Kotick ruined it) could have pulled Tod aside and said "Don't listen to them. It's Pac-Man. Make it black. And let me show you a trick to make better dots and ghosts." The fact that the Atari 2600 version of Ms Pac-Man and Pac-Man Jr *are* better, and the fact that there's an 8K homebrew version of Pac-Man that is *far* better, proves that things could've been done differently.
SpearM75503
Sweet mother of god!!!!! That’s possibly the the longest most articulate and intellectual comments I’ve ever read on RUclips!!!!!! And about such a topic that has no real bearing on many peoples lives in the world during Covid19 times too.
Did you accidentally stumble onto RUclips from the Mensa website or something?? Hahahahahaha
But seriously..... BRAVO and a standing ovation goes out to you (from me anyway) thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your comments ❤️🖖❤️🖖
P.S. you really should stop listening to soooooo many rumours though 😉😉
@@xxDADDYDAYCARExx Thanks for the compliment! I try not to be "negative Nancy" when making comments. With all the chaos going on this year, nobody needs more negativity in their life anyway. As for "listening to rumors"... when it comes to questions like "Why is Atari 2600 Pac-Man so bad?" that's all there really is. You'll notice I debunked most of the rumors right away. Tod Frye has changed parts of his story several times, which makes it even harder to determine the actual truth. (Which may be because he was _stoned_ part of the time when writing Pac-Man. The guy did LSD and marijuana even while he was working at Atari, and they let him do it. That was just part of the Atari culture when he first started working there.)
Whip that ass!🤣
Great video brother!
Gotta admit that I thought you were Joe lol! Now I know it's Ron!
He beat me, fair and square, LOL I was just playing around with him, by the way Matt is a Ninja. If it ever came down to a real fight, Matt knows all that Karate Wu Tang Clan stuff.
I have nothing negative to say about your dealings with ESD and am satisfied with this video.
If there is very VERY low relative humidity, ESD is real. Based on where you are located, ultra low chance. I have worked in data centers where I could throw force lightning because humidity was like 10%. Always handle chips in a swamp.
Or, in my case, northeast Texas. Where I live, we get about 4 feet (1.22 meters) of rain a year. From May through September, the average humidity is somewhere between "muggy" and "miserable" (as I type this, it's 78% humidity). Houston is even worse. I've never destroyed a chip with ESD, even though I almost never use a wrist strap. (Touching something that's grounded serves the same purpose as the strap. Apparently they don't teach that in college. Apparently they teach that wearing an ESD strap is the *only* correct way to do things.)
I'm not suggesting it's not real.... i'm suggesting when people watch my videos they don't need to tell me i'm doing it wrong because i'm not wearing a strap (or the 1000 other things people tell me i'm doing wrong) I'm just trying to have a good time and have fun filming some videos, the absolute, #1 hardest, biggest pain in the ass about making the videos is a small percentage of the viewers. Gary you are not only that list, you're one of our best viewers, thanks for watching like usual :) We'll see you on the next one!
I love the fast speed pacman!
It’s pretty fun that way....
Oh, Two-Bit Score! A name I recognize - I'm mostly familiar with them because of Vs. Skate Kid Bros., a really bizarre upgrade kit for Vs. Super Mario Bros. they made.
Esd, never heard of her. Anywho looking forward to watching you service this PCB Ron.
Keep up the good work Ron and Joe 👍💯😁
Another one saved from the dust :)
End of week vid! Cool! 😎😎
It's a pretty long one too :)
in the 80's this was as good as it got for fun for a kid unless you liked pong and so much better than oregon trail on the schools apple 2 computers. we were'nt suppose to play games on school computers but i was one of the computer lab "student helper monitors" and wore a nerdy badge with my name on it -_- i wrote the dos software for our schools wood/metal shop cnc lathe/mill classes so they let me toy around. there was a arcade in the local shopping mall people of all ages stood in lines to play mrs pac-man because the pac-man one was always broke down sooooooooooooo hot in that arcade place would get soaked in sweat & never had enough quarters some games they had you buy gold tokens to play
I used to go to the arcades at the beach and they were like that, they'd get super hot in there and they just had huge fans set up, everybody was walking around in swimming trunks and things anyways though, but yeah the games got DESTROYED
@@LyonsArcade Yup me too, massive waist tall fans with blades that seemed they belonged on planes haha the floor in those places was always super beat up worn out wood from all the salt water and sand on peoples flip flops. The cabs closest to the front garage like doors were always in the worst condition, the games buried in the dark back never got played lol
my board works perfectly - just some slight geometry issues on the far right of the screen
any ideas?
Usually that is the horizontal sync on the monitor itself. Adjust the horizontal sync or horizontal frequency on the monitor until it lines up for you, if it won't line up usually the monitor needs the capacitors replaced...
I've been duped! Here I thought you were Joe this whole time. I feel violated!
I never said I was Joe, I said "Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Joe's Classic Video Games Back With Another GREAT Arcade Game Video For You This Eveeeeening!" The name of our shop is Joe's Classic Video Games :)
gonna attempt to replace the caps ob mine 😔
wish me luck bb
Don't forget to wear your rubber Ron :)
Always!
ESD is more of a problem in CMOS chips, on 74LS and other non-CMOS logic chips you are OK to handle them without 'protection'. Refrain from cat stroking and shuffling on vintage arcade carpets, touch something earthed before you touch the board and you'll be fine.
However, beware the CMOS! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7400-series_integrated_circuits#CMOS
You'd think after eating all those pills, you wouldn't have "droopy joystick" problems.
You. I see what you did there. It must be Friday :)
What does it take to speed up a Pac-Man game? I remember playing Ms. Pacman and it was fast AF. That's how I wanted it. Just curious. Hey, Joe. You rule the arcades! Love this channel. #80skid
The way you speed it up is you change Rom #6F with a 'speed chip' rom... so they go into the code, and change 1 number in the code to make the character move faster.... it's the same rom but with 1 little bit changed to make it fast. You can buy them at www.Hobby Roms.com might be the easiest way to do it, then just take the old rom out of the socket and put the fast one in.
@@LyonsArcade hey I appreciate you Joe. Might be the most knowledgeable dude when it comes to these things. Probably why I like the channel so much. Keep doing your thing bro!
I don't enjoy telling you that you are wrong, Ron, but the green thing wasn't a water bottle or a whoppie cushion, it was a lime!
I imagine that ESD was more of a problem in the 80s than it is today because of the shag carpet they had covering every surface.
That's a good point, lol
Is there a fast chip that allowed a toggle button like on mame?
Yes they had some that when you hold the button down EVERYTHING speeds up, they also had one if you hold the button down you can go right through the ghosts! There were hundreds of hacks for this thing, there's a multigame out there with 96 different versions of the game even!
I am surprised i am not seeing any bypass caps between vcc/gnd on these logic chips.
They just put it at the end of the row on each side, so two caps do like 12 chips! Old school way of doing it I guess.
Did not know there was a fast version of Pac-Man.
It's really a hack, but yup it was pretty common. Thank you for watching Ronald!
@@LyonsArcade thanks for the reply and info. Your welcome, it's neat seeing the games that I played back in the day.
What’s the deal with the cutscenes being a bit messed up? I can understand Pac-Man moving too fast thanks to the speed up hack, but why did Blinky jump down the screen when he tore his sheet? Is that also a side effect of the speed up or are there still some problems with the board?
It's the speed up chip, they cause these strange little issues like that in the cutscenes and the attract mode.... Galaga does the same thing if you put the rapid fire chip in, it makes the ship kill things on the screen faster in attract mode, so when the Galaga tries to lift the ship up in the air, the timing is all screwed up and the ship doesn't line up.
Hola, tengo un ms pacman que solo se mueve a la derecha, como se puede solucionar? Y tengo un lethal enforces 2 que el lado izquierdo de la pantalla no recibe las señales de disparo
That was ya best joke !
I'm gonna get cancelled
😂😂😂Lol!!! Do you know how many pc’s I’ve worked on and that’s never happened?Man 😊everybody kept riding my butt about it and I kept telling them they were nuts…But they day it happened I about 💩 my pants… It was winter and the floor was carpet and it was dry in there and the static build up was in the air and I just called the customer to tell them there computer was done…I walked over reached in the case while the pc was on to move some wires and a static discharge went from my finger right into the motherboard and fried it out … 275.00 dollars later and that money came from my pocket cause everybody seen what happens and heard that snap I had learned a valuable lesson…So maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but it may might be the be day when you least expect it -(Snap) and out goes the board or the chip….Keep your humidity up and your carpet low pile and try not to drag your feet… if you start shocking things or each other your in the danger zone… Ya we didn’t tell the customer what happened that we ran into another problem and we were behind and it would be a week before we could get it back to him…Ya he was pissed 😡
I think a lot of it depends on what area of the world you're in, I'm in SC the humidity is through the roof, one of the most humid places in the country so we never have any static shocks or anything
I have a wrestlemania and the video doesn't work. I have no idea what's wrong could you help me ??
You aren't Joe? My world is destroyed. It's like finding out Bob Villa wasn't really doing all that work!
Well it'd be like finding out Bob Villa, was really some guy named Steve but still did all the work, lol
Lol. Norm did all the work
I didn't know there was a Joe, i figured the store was named that I've only seen you and donny
We (regulars) know you aren't Joe since you always mention Joe in the background. We didn't know you were Ron though, we just thought you were Notjoe Cheese.
Notjoe Cheese is our 4th brother!
Esd shackle, Mask, condom, lysol, hand sanitizer, 6 feet from joystick, ground pan on wall plug, PCB ground strap to wall plug, remove carpet, Put in humidor 😆
And also we need some kind of ESD monitor that sounds a big ass alarm if there's an issue, lol Thanks for watching Vic glad you have a sense of humor, some of these people are so uptight!
Your ok on ESD as long as your not working in your bedroom slippers..
I'll keep that in mind :) Thanks for watching Keith!
ESD damage is accumulative. You MAY damage the chip a 'little' one time, then more the next until the chip finally fails. The modern chips are probably more susceptible than the chips of 'way back when",
I'm not even going to agree with the premise of that. I know you aren't being combative, you're just giving me an out, so don't take this as agressive but it needs to be said out loud. You're telling me I can't see that i'm damaging it, that 40 year old chip i'm working on is going to fail quicker down the road because I touched it.... and you're telling me that because you read that or heard that somewhere. You have never seen proof of that, you just accepted it because someone you respect or admire said it, or wrote it.
Think about what you've been told, and just reason it out a little bit. There is no way to confirm that, and there's especially no way to confirm that on a chip that's already 40 years old. In the meanwhile, i'm sitting here with 1000's of experiences and i'm telling you that's not true, at least in my experience, where i'm working, on the stuff i'm working on.
BTW, i'm not saying it's NOT a concern... i'm just saying I don't need people constantly telling me I'm doing it wrong when i've been doing it with no issues for a long time, clearly something is overstated or overblown if I haven't ran into it yet. It may just be the weather in SC.... but either way, that's another reason people don't need to butt in and tell me I'm wrong when I'm just having a good time filming a video. It's amazing on the internet to meet an expert on the Electrostatic Condition in my shop in South Carolina and wants to comment on what I have attached to my body.
It's actually part of a bigger issue I've noticed, i.e. people see someone say something, and then believe it whether they have any evidence of it or not. Meanwhile I'm actually working on 1000's of boards and have a different experience, but they think they know better enough, to tell me I'm wrong and my experience isn't as valuable as their education. Very strange.
Not saying that's you, just talking about it in general, thank you for watching Tin601 we appreciate it!
@@LyonsArcade We had to be trained annually on ESD protocol, and it was in all the literature. And this was on aircraft circuit boards costing tens of thousands of $, so procedures were in place to prevent ANY chance of damage. There is a lot of hoopla over ESD, so take it or leave it. You're been making a living for all these years, so I think you're safe.
@@LyonsArcade I'm not going to take a side one way or the other on whether ESD is an issue for you or not. I will say that Tin601's comment about ESD possibly damaging (but not destroying) a chip is true. Back in the late 80s/early 90s when I studied computer engineering in college I had a professor who not only taught at my college but also worked at a local company making advanced electronics for the military. A great guy that I learned a lot from. He spoke about this exact issue in one of our classes and I never forgot what he said. The traces on a PCB and the lines inside a chip CAN be partially damaged by a voltage spike...it burns away part of the trace but not all of it. This creates a weak link that could eventually fail. He did impress upon us the need for ESD protection while in our lab classes but again, environmental factors and the materials you work with play a big part in how serious an issue it is for your particular situation.
Two of the left. Sounds like a very similar problem as that other Pac Man or was it Ms. Pac man you fixed a while ago.
Yeah I think the other one was doing something very similar wasn't it? I can't remember the specifics.
That looks modified. Is that a 3 or 4 game mod ? So it does super pacman, ms pacman, pacman and one other one ?
At the beginning when we're fixing it, that's just a test program that twobits.com sold awhile back....
I also don't use ESD grounding... but then again I try to not wear polyester underpants.... i think you will find the people who have experienced significant ESD failures have unusual underwear choices. Just sayin'.
hahaha. In all seriousness there are some things you'd need it for, these old school arcade boards aren't that susceptible to it unless you're wearing wool underwear like you said LOL
@@LyonsArcade Hi Roy, did you ever wonder why some ICs just die and some last for years without failure ? Along time ago engineers in the chip industry looked at the mean time before failure of integrated circuits and determined that the MBF of an IC was significantly lowered by not using electrostatic discharge precautions, some IC like the 74 ttl series were designed with anti-static buffering to help prevent early death. Since then a lot of myths have grown out of the Chip fab's insistence on using ESD precaution with there products, Yes it is true that you can handle ICs without ESD strap and it won't cause a problem, that is until maybe ten years later the IC will just give up and die and will have to be replaced. The moral of the story is you can get away not having ESD as a repair engineer but is essential as a manufacturer to cut down on your product returns. Keep up the good videos I am an avid fan also I have been watching you brother Donnie recently for some great entertainment. my only suggestion is that he wares a lavalier mic cause its hard to hear him sometimes.
Why didn't the maze changed ? It was always the same maze !
Pac-Man was the same maze over and over again, Ms. Pac-Man the maze changed.
Two bits must refer to two pieces of eight, or one quarter. Pirate speak!
I believe you're right! I always just heard that old song "shave and a haircut, two bits!"
It is and I’ve always believed this is the source of computer “bit” (an indivisible part of a whole). But everyone believes the obviously retro-created “BInary Digit” origin, which is ridiculous
I agree with you now that you’ve explained it!
do you have a email i can send a video of what my ms pac-man display is doing?
Yes lyonsarcade@carolina.rr.com
ESD, isn't that when you can see the future?
I thought it was what they sell viagra for...
Don't remind me about watchdog. I had 2 weeks worth of tearing my hair out about a CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT error on my PC, Damn you Windows 10!
Yeah, they're a beast sometimes :)
Gotta keep the watchdog on a leash eh?
@@LyonsArcade Yep, it was an old build of Windows 10 that was at fault.
I was taught that the perils of ESD are not so much in instant-death, but in eventual failure. Even a resistor can get a hole blown in it by static discharge, but all that does is create a hole for eventual contamination by air. Same with ICs, except that they have smaller transistors that can completely fail later. The "institutional knowledge" also claims that you can get damaging ESD without even producing a large enough spark to hear or see it.
It is possible to insta-kill a chip though, as demonstrated by Dave Jones. He took the striker out of a lighter and started clicking it near a chip, while it was powered on. After only a few clicks, the chip was permanently stupid.
I've heard, if you work on something in temperatures over 45 degrees , down the road (when you have no way of knowing what the cause is)... that time you soldered on the board when the room temperature was over 45 degrees will make the ram stop working.
I mean it may not be true, but just to be safe, turn up the ac for sure!
Hehe, just repeating what my instructors said. Supposedly they learned from engineers who investigated component failures and showed the exact points of damage.
But I think the mechanical analogy would instead be letting a few grains of sand get in the oil because you weren't in a clean environment. The engine won't fail right away, maybe the oil filter will catch it, but you still risk abrasion that could continue wearing on moving parts.
Back to electronics, it is true that many modern chips have ESD protection designed in though.
esd that you don't notice producing "walking wounded" parts is true. We traced a series of transistor failures to an nonconductive plastic parts drawer; damaging parts when they were poured in out of the shipping packaging. Parts would be fine for a while but some would fail in extended testing- always one of these particular parts. Replace the bad one, some would work fine from then on, some would fail again. Parts were well within SOA.. drove us nuts for the better part of a year. Problems went away after we used an esd safe drawer- eventually a board mod let us switch to a more robust transistor, sighs of relief all around.
Parts drawers like you using Joe are an invitation for problems like this (we used them too). We figured transistors are little lumps of silicon what sort of ESD problem could they have... well, some are some aren't. That said, we had dozens of parts on the boards (building hundreds of boards per year), the transistors were the only ones with problems.
Pac-Person
Pac-capable
pffftttsss ESD isnt something we need because we working on 12v to 5v i dont think that got anything todo with it
some board run on 50 to 100v hec yah you going need esd but anything less than 24v isnt nothing to bother it
unless board get wet by ur sweating hand yah would zap ya finger not hard just little n feel like ant stink that all
I think what honestly is going on is the older boards which i'm usually working on aren't as susceptible to it, plus the humid climate in South Carolina makes it less of an issue too, if somebody was working on a certain era of chips, and in a dryer climate it might be an issue. I just get tired of people telling me i'm not doing it right when i'm on video doing it, and it works.
@@LyonsArcade 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 i would just ignore newbies who havent grow up back in 1950 when game where fixerable
30:14
Thank you. Thank you very much.