Just look at Google, Facebook and Amazon if you want to see how much fair playing field for foreign companies will have in general...Give Tesla credit for being able to negotiate with China to keep ownership...
And watch the Chinese government steal him blind of his IP/know-how and then kick him out. It's happened numerous times with other companies and industries. Musk will be another sucker who falls for the ruse.
When the China factory is up and producing (not too far from now) the Tesla Shorts are going to be losing Billions. He said, Tesla has a great product and the Chinese love Tesla's - especially without the tariff Telsa's now have
It will be much harder to steal Tesla's IP, since they were not forced to form a joint venture.... and Tesla is a prestige brand in China so they leveraged that fact... so China will tolerate their independence for now.... But its amusing how cult drones want to make this about Tesla's financials...So don't get me started on all the bone head, money losing moves by the CEO that made shorting, the stock pretty profitable this year...It's just getting the deal with China wasn't one of them...
@@nc3826 Who do you think he will employee in China? You think the government won't have strategic plants in his enterprise there? Corporate espionage happens often, and the Chinese government are pros at it.
Its not primarily about technology and cars, its about warfare. When the USA cannot generate excuses to actually go to war(as they are doing with other countries) they do the next thing available - they generate a cold war. And the sense of entitlement by the US is huge. But I think we have reached the stage where China does not actually need America for anything. Because the Chinese have learned about America's mindset in addition to everything else they need to know. Mark my words.
At 4:25 I like how he smiles when he lies. Tesla makes a higher profit margin on EVs than Ford does on its ICE cars. evannex.com/blogs/news/tesla-model-3-profit-target-is-5x-higher-than-the-average-vehicle-from-ford
An important data: China's exports in 2018 totaled 2.48 trillion dollars, an increase of 9.9%; of which China's exports to US were 478.4 billion dollars, an increase of 11.3%. China’s exports to US account for only 19% of China’s total exports.
I was planing to buy an imported American Cadillac, now I changed it to Audi. And there are also friends around me in China who were thinking about buying Lincoln, but they finally bought European High-end cars. This situation also occurs in female friends...the girls already abandoned Estee Lauder, Tiffany&Co, Coach, Michael Kors, Tory Burch... Yeah, Cartier, Bvlgari, Lancome, SK-II and many more are better choices?????????
Ironic that we have a president with a 3rd grade understanding of economics and trade during such an important period in history. Abandoning the TPP will prove to be one of the biggest blunders in history, and he was just getting started
Throughout his life, Trump proved he is only very good at one thing - bankruptcy. Now he is transferring that skill onto the entire USA. In the rest of the world, MAGA means "Making America Go Away". Well done USA... You cooked your goose - now eat it.
"Funny" how he/they didn't mention the most important part in fact, about copyright, patent, trademark infringement and proprietary tech being stolen and replicated in China, all promoted by the imperialist, mass murderous, exterminatory and genocidal Communist apparatchik. You have your company in the Western world and would like to make some money there perhaps but are afraid that your tech is gonna be stolen, plagiarized, copied or reverse engineered either by a private company/individual or the government itself. And then he calls upon American companies to put MORE eggs in their basket. The chutzpah!
We think we are number one.🙈 We bash on the only car company trying to keep us alive. We always buy the cheapest product no matter where it’s made. Because we are so smart. 🤪. Maybe we could figure out how to make the car run on coal again. That would get government funding for sure. We are number 1 we are number ☝🏻.
The core of Chinese culture is that What you do not want done to yourself，do not do to others.《Confucian Analects》. Persevere in doing your own thing, not in the intervention of others, and arrogant.
Wow, you would think after hearing that, all the Tesla shorts would want to rally for the only viable electric American car company. But no. Their pride is destroying Tesla and is hurting America.
22:50. When McElroy talks about consolidation of the car companies, he seems to forget that all the car producing countries, in the past, had many makers. Since the market has been dominated by a few giant corporations, monopoly practices have stifled innovation and made it very difficult for new technologies to get a foothold in the market. Maybe the Chinese understand that new ideas and thinking out of the box is risky and not so efficient, but it can benefit a greater number of people, and society in general, than the current version of corporate hegemony, which allows more and more of the increasing profits to go to a smaller and smaller number of established players. Of course, in the US this is seen as one of the greatest perils of communism and is to be resisted at all costs. This demonising of an alternative social order leads to the propaganda war currently being fought by the White House. By blaming the Chinese, attention is deflected from the very real problems facing the US and the Trump administration's legal embarrassments.
Curmudgeon Yes, Islam and Communism aren't bigoted, intolerant, hateful, imperialist, mass murderous, exterminatory and genocidal ideologies at all. They're peaceful religions of peace that didn't, don't and will never du nuffin'. The master races! Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Chavez, Maduro, Castro, Mao, Mugabe, Amin, Ortega, Lukashenka, Honecker, Ceausescu, Pol Pot and Pedohammed AKBAR! 👌🏻 Tras de genocidas, bufones.
30 years ago? there is no even a road in 99% of China. the road they called is just a dirt path that is created by 1.4 billion people walking over it or riding their bicycle.
Uber is loosing almost $ 1 billion a Q. And in US we have lot's of Uber type companies and lot's of wasted capital too. The difference is, that in China you can built a whole car factory with 200K output for much less than in Western World. And this is a real advantage. Unless US and EU change their permitting & environmental processes we are second or even less. One example, to get permit for a Tesla Gigafactory in CA it would take 2 years, if all would go smoothly.
@grandpa5x Pulliam Well, you've got a shock coming in about 8-12 months, when the 15 minute charge is reality. What you don't get is that charge speed is enabled by batteries that don't actually need charging as often because they're more energy dense and cheaper. The vast majority won't even charge once each week by necessity, they'll "graze" as they go about daily life.
15:07 Tesla basically China Govt guaranteed to succeed, with a luxury market size of 2M units. This fucks up the US Fudsters narrative doesn’t it. Haha. Hi NC
and Tesla will simply move export operations to the rest of the world from USA to China, build on the test of the site (did you notice there's 4 times the area available?) And carry on with investment from outside the US.
Ha, Chinese people buy Tesla cars made in America, but they are not buying Bolts made in America, they are not buying Leafs made in America - But they are buying Teslas. Restricting Chinese is not going to help America, getting GOOD designs made in America is what the USA needs.
Some times I think that you are the Fox news of the automotive industry. Be carful of showing a bias towards old guard automotive companies. I love it when you embrace change.
JF F You misunderstand what I am saying. At times the site gives a very colored perspective on vehicles that are not traditional ICE based vehicles. I was raised in a car family. My dad worked in dealerships and I support the automotive industry. However, they need to focus on building vehicles with various means to drive them.
Change for change's sake is stupid to put it bluntly Phil. China won't do anything differently than the old guard. They'll just pollute more, dump more products into foreign markets, and steal intellectual property like they have for the past 30 years. IP theft, slave labor and playing Western multinational suckers is how they've built their modern economy. But hey, "change".
Phil Foster Change, like supporting an imperialist, mass murderous, exterminatory and genocidal regime like China's. Nothing that hasn't been done since Nixon, you know, for a change 👌🏻 Tras de ladrón, bufón.
Better spending cash money on building "cars" than plastic bottles and toys. If you have to artificially stimulate an economy why not? I think the 30 million empty dwellings thing is getting a bit stale now. Move on, make 300,000,000 useless cars too.
If that bit of information doesn't raise Tesla stock nothing will but I'm still praying that Tesla goes private but that's a whole other conversation. The ship sailed but still could dock later.
John is always concerned about anyone making money on EV. If you look at this technology as national security, would you ask if the government makes any money with defense acquisition, knowing it is the biggest waste elephant. This is about vision and leading that we are playing catch up. Sad!
Simon Shum You seem to ignore those “wasted elephant” defense acquisitions will come in quite handy when we shortly need to be raining bombs all over China over their aggression in the South China Sea!
@@scosprey It was so naive to think raining bomb would soft any problem. You have not been taught the lessons of Korea, Vietnam and Irag, you are so nationalist to think that bomb can solve all problems. Mind you, you can't even touch Jim Chung Uh, you are talking about raining bomb over South China Seas. Let's take some defense budget and build homes for American living on tents at freeway underpass. Get real!
![Global Capitalism: China vs. US - System Rising vs. Falling [September 2022]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/beOSBVFa-9I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Global Capitalism: China vs. US - System Rising vs. Falling [September 2022]](/img/tr.png)
What a terrific show. I can’t believe how much I learned from today’s discussion. Thanks Autoline. Keep it up!
Best show so far.
You sure must love cars.
Michael really knows his subject matter - impressive!
Just look at Google, Facebook and Amazon if you want to see how much fair playing field for foreign companies will have in general...Give Tesla credit for being able to negotiate with China to keep ownership...
And watch the Chinese government steal him blind of his IP/know-how and then kick him out. It's happened numerous times with other companies and industries. Musk will be another sucker who falls for the ruse.
When the China factory is up and producing (not too far from now) the Tesla Shorts are going to be losing Billions. He said, Tesla has a great product and the Chinese love Tesla's - especially without the tariff Telsa's now have
It will be much harder to steal Tesla's IP, since they were not forced to form a joint venture.... and Tesla is a prestige brand in China so they leveraged that fact... so China will tolerate their independence for now....
But its amusing how cult drones want to make this about Tesla's financials...So don't get me started on all the bone head, money losing moves by the CEO that made shorting, the stock pretty profitable this year...It's just getting the deal with China wasn't one of them...
@@hornprof46 I don't bet with or against Tesla, and shorting the stock has nothing to do with my comment.
@@nc3826 Who do you think he will employee in China? You think the government won't have strategic plants in his enterprise there? Corporate espionage happens often, and the Chinese government are pros at it.
Its not primarily about technology and cars, its about warfare. When the USA cannot generate excuses to actually go to war(as they are doing with other countries) they do the next thing available - they generate a cold war. And the sense of entitlement by the US is huge. But I think we have reached the stage where China does not actually need America for anything. Because the Chinese have learned about America's mindset in addition to everything else they need to know. Mark my words.
What a coincidence. The old man that doesn't understand autopilot also doesn't understand that Tesla does make a profit. LOL
At 4:25 I like how he smiles when he lies. Tesla makes a higher profit margin on EVs than Ford does on its ICE cars. evannex.com/blogs/news/tesla-model-3-profit-target-is-5x-higher-than-the-average-vehicle-from-ford
An important data: China's exports in 2018 totaled 2.48 trillion dollars, an increase of 9.9%; of which China's exports to US were 478.4 billion dollars, an increase of 11.3%. China’s exports to US account for only 19% of China’s total exports.
Autoline needs to be on NBC Sunday morning slot. Great info as always.
I was planing to buy an imported American Cadillac, now I changed it to Audi. And there are also friends around me in China who were thinking about buying Lincoln, but they finally bought European High-end cars. This situation also occurs in female friends...the girls already abandoned Estee Lauder, Tiffany&Co, Coach, Michael Kors, Tory Burch... Yeah, Cartier, Bvlgari, Lancome, SK-II and many more are better choices?????????
Ironic that we have a president with a 3rd grade understanding of economics and trade during such an important period in history.
Abandoning the TPP will prove to be one of the biggest blunders in history, and he was just getting started
Throughout his life, Trump proved he is only very good at one thing - bankruptcy. Now he is transferring that skill onto the entire USA. In the rest of the world, MAGA means "Making America Go Away". Well done USA... You cooked your goose - now eat it.
Fantastic content, I'm glad I found your channel.
"Funny" how he/they didn't mention the most important part in fact, about copyright, patent, trademark infringement and proprietary tech being stolen and replicated in China, all promoted by the imperialist, mass murderous, exterminatory and genocidal Communist apparatchik.
You have your company in the Western world and would like to make some money there perhaps but are afraid that your tech is gonna be stolen, plagiarized, copied or reverse engineered either by a private company/individual or the government itself. And then he calls upon American companies to put MORE eggs in their basket. The chutzpah!
Brilliant interview. Have never heard such an insightful appraisal of the Chinese auto market.
Thanks for this interesting discussion. When do you think Tesla China will make a profit?
Great show, great guests. Thanks for putting it together.
U.S. finally throw a punch.
We think we are number one.🙈
We bash on the only car company trying to keep us alive.
We always buy the cheapest product no matter where it’s made.
Because we are so smart. 🤪.
Maybe we could figure out how to make the car run on coal again. That would get government funding for sure.
We are number 1 we are number ☝🏻.
The core of Chinese culture is that What you do not want done to yourself，do not do to others.《Confucian Analects》. Persevere in doing your own thing, not in the intervention of others, and arrogant.
Wow, you would think after hearing that, all the Tesla shorts would want to rally for the only viable electric American car company. But no. Their pride is destroying Tesla and is hurting America.
22:50. When McElroy talks about consolidation of the car companies, he seems to forget that all the car producing countries, in the past, had many makers. Since the market has been dominated by a few giant corporations, monopoly practices have stifled innovation and made it very difficult for new technologies to get a foothold in the market.
Maybe the Chinese understand that new ideas and thinking out of the box is risky and not so efficient, but it can benefit a greater number of people, and society in general, than the current version of corporate hegemony, which allows more and more of the increasing profits to go to a smaller and smaller number of established players.
Of course, in the US this is seen as one of the greatest perils of communism and is to be resisted at all costs. This demonising of an alternative social order leads to the propaganda war currently being fought by the White House.
By blaming the Chinese, attention is deflected from the very real problems facing the US and the Trump administration's legal embarrassments.
Curmudgeon Yes, Islam and Communism aren't bigoted, intolerant, hateful, imperialist, mass murderous, exterminatory and genocidal ideologies at all. They're peaceful religions of peace that didn't, don't and will never du nuffin'. The master races! Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Chavez, Maduro, Castro, Mao, Mugabe, Amin, Ortega, Lukashenka, Honecker, Ceausescu, Pol Pot and Pedohammed AKBAR! 👌🏻
Tras de genocidas, bufones.
@@V0YAG3R . Well, that was a refreshingly reasoned response to my observation.
Great show! Thank You
Fabulous show and info! You nailed it today and every day! Love your shows so informative! Thanks very much
Fascinating insight into China. What a great guest in Mr. Dunne, I'd love to hear more from him.
Interesting discussion. Thanks.
Whoa. WHOA. *WHOA*
Whao?
Sandy Munro was on After Hours and said the same thing
Type of cars ? Little tiny cars make up a great portion of chinese vehicle market.
Great show.
30 years ago? there is no even a road in 99% of China. the road they called is just a dirt path that is created by 1.4 billion people walking over it or riding their bicycle.
well that sounds like a lot of wasted capital in china.
Uber is loosing almost $ 1 billion a Q. And in US we have lot's of Uber type companies and lot's of wasted capital too. The difference is, that in China you can built a whole car factory with 200K output for much less than in Western World. And this is a real advantage. Unless US and EU change their permitting & environmental processes we are second or even less.
One example, to get permit for a Tesla Gigafactory in CA it would take 2 years, if all would go smoothly.
Great show make this guy a regular guest like Bob Lutz
This is the only guest u ever had who relegated Sandy to #2 status.
LoL trump hates electric vehicles
Did you know Trump owns a Tesla roadster?
What DO you mean?
Find knows EVERYTHING about that Electrikery stuff!
@grandpa5x Pulliam
Well, you've got a shock coming in about 8-12 months, when the 15 minute charge is reality.
What you don't get is that charge speed is enabled by batteries that don't actually need charging as often because they're more energy dense and cheaper.
The vast majority won't even charge once each week by necessity, they'll "graze" as they go about daily life.
Great show. Scary what is going to happen to the American car industry. Only Tesla is set to up succeed.
15:07 Tesla basically China Govt guaranteed to succeed, with a luxury market size of 2M units. This fucks up the US Fudsters narrative doesn’t it. Haha. Hi NC
Mainland Chinese own more expensive, very expensive cars than any other countries add up!
China if you're listening please show us Trump's tax returns.
They can't, but would you be interested in every email Hillary Clinton ever sent or received as Secretary of State? They've got that!
What does his tax returns have anything to do with anything? Typical libtard comment, just jizzing out of your mouth.
Chinese culture is doing its own thing, not screaming, even arrogant
So testla go and give Chinese hour. Best teck lol.
Including SPELLCHECKERS!?
Tesla stock...lol
@@rogerstarkey5390 sort!
This model of Car Development in China is not substainable as the car industries owe a lot of money.
USA needs to force an end to JV and restrict Chinese components access to US market.
and Tesla will simply move export operations to the rest of the world from USA to China, build on the test of the site (did you notice there's 4 times the area available?) And carry on with investment from outside the US.
Ha, Chinese people buy Tesla cars made in America, but they are not buying Bolts made in America, they are not buying Leafs made in America - But they are buying Teslas. Restricting Chinese is not going to help America, getting GOOD designs made in America is what the USA needs.
Some times I think that you are the Fox news of the automotive industry. Be carful of showing a bias towards old guard automotive companies. I love it when you embrace change.
What is your definition of change?
JF F You misunderstand what I am saying. At times the site gives a very colored perspective on vehicles that are not traditional ICE based vehicles. I was raised in a car family. My dad worked in dealerships and I support the automotive industry. However, they need to focus on building vehicles with various means to drive them.
Change for change's sake is stupid to put it bluntly Phil. China won't do anything differently than the old guard. They'll just pollute more, dump more products into foreign markets, and steal intellectual property like they have for the past 30 years. IP theft, slave labor and playing Western multinational suckers is how they've built their modern economy. But hey, "change".
@@H0kieJoe I think you're wrong. I think EV's will dominate in China, but everyone is welcome to their opinion.
Phil Foster Change, like supporting an imperialist, mass murderous, exterminatory and genocidal regime like China's. Nothing that hasn't been done since Nixon, you know, for a change 👌🏻
Tras de ladrón, bufón.
Better spending cash money on building "cars" than plastic bottles and toys. If you have to artificially stimulate an economy why not? I think the 30 million empty dwellings thing is getting a bit stale now. Move on, make 300,000,000 useless cars too.
If that bit of information doesn't raise Tesla stock nothing will but I'm still praying that Tesla goes private but that's a whole other conversation. The ship sailed but still could dock later.
John is always concerned about anyone making money on EV. If you look at this technology as national security, would you ask if the government makes any money with defense acquisition, knowing it is the biggest waste elephant. This is about vision and leading that we are playing catch up. Sad!
Simon Shum You seem to ignore those “wasted elephant” defense acquisitions will come in quite handy when we shortly need to be raining bombs all over China over their aggression in the South China Sea!
@@scosprey It was so naive to think raining bomb would soft any problem. You have not been taught the lessons of Korea, Vietnam and Irag, you are so nationalist to think that bomb can solve all problems. Mind you, you can't even touch Jim Chung Uh, you are talking about raining bomb over South China Seas. Let's take some defense budget and build homes for American living on tents at freeway underpass. Get real!