How do you record drums? 1, 2, 3, 4, 10 mics? In this excerpt video from the Limusic MasterClass: promixacademy.com/course/warren-huart-production-masterclass/ we show how we got a very dry, dead drum sound using an interesting array of mics, only recording a kick and a snare. Heavily baffled around the drum kit, the idea was to get fat, dry full tones with little to no ambience in them top balance the over the top ambient toms and programmed, electronic elements in the song.
Anything from 4 - 16 depends what im going for. Would be great with an episode on artificial room reverb when recording drums. I got a ”dead” studio and trying out diffrent things.
I’m new to drum recording but I’m using 10 mics: kick in/out, snare top/bottom, spaced pair overheads, mono overhead, rack tom, floor tom. Sontronics DM-1B, JZ V47, Sontronics DM-1S/DM-1T, Warm Audio WA-67 x2, JZ V67, DM-1T x2. I’m still getting to grips with some basics like tuning out sympathetic buzz and getting my panning right. My mono overhead doesn’t really add much but I figure I might compress it like crazy and blend that in.
Yes! Depends on what we are going for in the final product!@@hipskind In the Shout video we did a couple of weeks ago I loved using the 441 on the snare! Horses for courses!
Thank you so much for holding the mixing contests! I always learn so much from doing them. I know it must be a lot of work to put together, so I just wanted to acknowledge it :)
For snares, I’ve always found they open up with a slightly lower tuning on top and tight underneath. Snares become responsive, as a drummer can control ghost notes and grace notes really well and not so bright up top m, but can still get crack by hitting harder / rim shots if need be. Then mute the top as required. Spruce wood snares are really unique for this too. Plenty of body like a steel snare but not as bright.
Great registration of this masterclass. All of the videos in this serie represent accurately what we witnessed that week. Martin, the drummer, was really what a drummer needs to be: supportive to the song, great pulse and timing and humble as can be. Having the chance to help with his setup and recordings was a heartfelt great opportunity to collaborate in a high professional setting.The atmosphere in that place, all people connecting to the music and work flow made it an invaluable lesson in capturing a promising young band. And what also helps: Limusic Studio is a wonderful place to record and spend a relaxed after-work time! Musical regards, Patrick Peeters
I think the assymetry of the audio file on the periscope is due to the DC offset. Which occurs when the mean or average amplitude of the waveform is not zero or vice versa.
how cool! i love the attention u stressed on creating the best possible sound at source! the least amount of processing the better imo. bravo to the drummer as well
The SM57 is still my go-to snare mic. It seems to capture the most essential elements of a snare drum, both top and bottom. I also like the darker, less open Beyer M201, especially with cymbals/hat bleed issues as it has superior rear and side rejection. Plus a 100Hz bump which accentuates with proximity.
Nice to see this kind of process underway. I'm actually just about to start tracking drums for my new album. I loved how the Periscope mic just need a nudge to fatten up the snare fatness-wise, just goes to show! Thanks Warren and everyone!
Hey. Could you do a video on mixing with drum software like EZDrummer? Not all of us can have access to a real drummer and software is our only option. I'm not sure if we need to EQ/compress etc. Thanks and keep up the great work 🙂
Awesome techniques. I am a believer in mic placement before touching the console. Please let us know who this song is by and the name of it and how we can find it to hear the final mix. After all, the fun of being a producer or engineer is the final result, as well as the process.
Yea, the 441 is usually my go-to for bottom snare, but it definitely doesn't work all the time. Sometimes it gets really ratty like Warren experienced here.
Great exp and knowledge of recording and studio workings and oversight from one who has more skill than I will ever catch up with. I think this is geared to understanding drum kit microphone and array configurations but it is way easier in the studio and live than this. I will say that in 50 yrs playing drum-kit and other instruments in my home studio I feel the drum-kit is better served tracked with a top end Roland or similar high end electronic kit. The drummer will like it much more bc after his or her take(s) they can sit in the control room and discuss the manipulation of the performance and the synth sounds. And not have to $pend countless hours and studio time in setting up a kit. I think Warren needs to get us more focused on information (and his amazing knowledge and experience ) in the actual microphones and placements for vocals, guitar cabinets and room presence techniques. Most drummers want/need to play the session in the moment and in the pocket. His skills and knowledge is 'sorta' not needed with 8 microphones on a snare drum and kik drum. He has massive skills and needs to focus us on a different instrument and studio workings. I know much less then he but can get a cleaner sound, faster with an electronic kit... nick fr Navarre Fl...
@@scope_labs no? Why the positive and the negative side of the wave is so different? You can have tons of compression on a signal but “ideally” both the + and the - side of the wave must be equal. Usually that doesn’t affect the sound and it is just visual (well, in fact you have less headroom) but definitely some phase rotation is going on.
@@scope_labswould you mind to explain a little bit more please? I clearly see a DC offset graph; the positive part of the wave is nearly flat and the negative has plenty of spkies. Either way, I LOVE that mic and how it sounds ❤️🙌🏼
the poor guy needs some padding for his thighs!! 😁😁 very interesting look at getting a stripped down drum beat onto "tape" thank you for a great vid, as always
So, i saw the previous studio tour, and forgot this was for a class. So when i saw all the people in the room, i was like "Wow! Warren is REALLY famous in the music industry! Look at all these people that came to watch how he mic's up a drum kit!" Hahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Recently I was made aware of the fact that engaging the pad on the mic increases the noise floor in comparison to engaging a pad or backing off the gain on your interface or preamp. In addition, utilizing the pad on the mic influences the sound quite a bit (often negatively), as more signal is being pushed through the onboard preamp of the mic, which may overload the circuitry in a negative way. My home experiments with my condensers, particularly with overhead mics, have verified this. I get better results by not engaging the pads on my ATM450's, and instead backing the gain off on my interface preamps, in this case an Antelope Discrete 8 Synergy Core. Just food for thought…
Thanks for the comment, who told you that? I can't anything to support that notion, for instance here is the number one article on the subject from a very reputable source 'As the mic's basic noise floor always stays the same, regardless of whether you use the pad or not, engaging the switch decreases the s/n of the mic by 10dB. In other words, the mic's amp has 10dB less signal to work with, but it will still produce the same background hiss/noise.'
Plus of course the PAD is Passive, hence passive attenuation device, before the mics own pre amp so it is the best place to stop audio distortion. If the SPL is to high and distorts that there's nothing you can do at your interface to clean that up. Shelly Yakus (and most of the big New York Engineers) is a big proponent of using PADs on Mics.
The more I read your message I believe I understand your misconception, PADs are there to stop the mic's own pre amp from distorting, that's why the PAD (before it) is engaged. If of course your interfaces mic pres can't handle the amplitude coming into them, then of course you'll have to use their PAD. However, the PAD on the mic serves a different purpose than the one you're describing, it's to stop distortion coming to your mic pre, not stopping your interfaces mic press from distorting.
If was micing this set of drums I would have done like the late Al Schmitt did on snare. AKG C 452EB on the Top and Shure SM57 on bottom out of phase. Along with AKG D12 on the kick. with No EQ. Audio-Techina AE 2500 on the Kick and a AE2300 on Snare or ATM350D on the Snare.
Slightly concerned by your input (digital) printing levels. They are peaking pretty high, and you are well over the -18dbFS average recommended level here. Were you aware of this at the time and if so any reason why you are printing so hot and risk clipping?
With all due respect, I never really understood the obsession with the very arbitrary "rule" about recording levels at -18dbFS. As long as it is not clipping, it does not matter if its -6, 12 or 18. All those levels can be clip gained up or down after the fact. One instrument recorded at -18 might not sound at all balanced with a different one, tracked at what looks like the same volume. So, since this initial level is moot w/r/t different instruments, we still have to "gain stage" after tracking, during mixing, and every single time we add eq, compression or anything else. Which means, its not one discrete process. The whole gain staging thing is totally overdone and is a more of a solution looking for a problem.
Hi @NorthernMonkeyMusic as others are saying, I wouldn't;t be concerned about printing hot. Getting the most out of the analog equipment means you get hotter signals which won;t distort anything during the analog to digital conversion process and then are being monitored through an anole console which has no problem handing the levels.
How do you record drums? 1, 2, 3, 4, 10 mics? In this excerpt video from the Limusic MasterClass: promixacademy.com/course/warren-huart-production-masterclass/ we show how we got a very dry, dead drum sound using an interesting array of mics, only recording a kick and a snare. Heavily baffled around the drum kit, the idea was to get fat, dry full tones with little to no ambience in them top balance the over the top ambient toms and programmed, electronic elements in the song.
Anything from 4 - 16 depends what im going for. Would be great with an episode on artificial room reverb when recording drums. I got a ”dead” studio and trying out diffrent things.
I’m new to drum recording but I’m using 10 mics: kick in/out, snare top/bottom, spaced pair overheads, mono overhead, rack tom, floor tom. Sontronics DM-1B, JZ V47, Sontronics DM-1S/DM-1T, Warm Audio WA-67 x2, JZ V67, DM-1T x2.
I’m still getting to grips with some basics like tuning out sympathetic buzz and getting my panning right. My mono overhead doesn’t really add much but I figure I might compress it like crazy and blend that in.
Thanks ever so much for sharing your process@@Kenneth-F
Thanks ever so much for sharing!@@Funkybassuk Wishing you all the best in your drum recordings!
Usually 4 mics. Kick, snare and stereo boundary mics with a jecklin disc.
Precisely the video I needed for a recording later today. Thank you for the useful tips as always, Warren!
Happy to help! Thanks ever so much
The waveforms on that Periscope mic are bananas.
Also, I love the 441 on snare bottom, with the high shelf boost and the high pass filters off.
+1 on the 441. I thought it sounded great, and was a bit surprised when he didn't like it. But the 57 was great too.
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Yes! Depends on what we are going for in the final product!@@hipskind In the Shout video we did a couple of weeks ago I loved using the 441 on the snare! Horses for courses!
Thank you so much for holding the mixing contests! I always learn so much from doing them. I know it must be a lot of work to put together, so I just wanted to acknowledge it :)
Thanks ever so much Justin!
For snares, I’ve always found they open up with a slightly lower tuning on top and tight underneath. Snares become responsive, as a drummer can control ghost notes and grace notes really well and not so bright up top m, but can still get crack by hitting harder / rim shots if need be. Then mute the top as required. Spruce wood snares are really unique for this too. Plenty of body like a steel snare but not as bright.
Marvellous! Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Great registration of this masterclass. All of the videos in this serie represent accurately what we witnessed that week.
Martin, the drummer, was really what a drummer needs to be: supportive to the song, great pulse and timing and humble as can be. Having the chance to help with his setup and recordings was a heartfelt great opportunity to collaborate in a high professional setting.The atmosphere in that place, all people connecting to the music and work flow made it an invaluable lesson in capturing a promising young band.
And what also helps: Limusic Studio is a wonderful place to record and spend a relaxed after-work time!
Musical regards,
Patrick Peeters
Cool! Would have been nice to see the applause after this amazing drum performance! What a talent!
So much groove, technic and precise passion! Wow!
"El" my brutha! Always good seeing you in your element. Like the long locks too.
Haha I cut it all off! Didn’t quite work
Glad you enjoyed the video
Such a wonderful video!
Thanks ever so much
I think the assymetry of the audio file on the periscope is due to the DC offset. Which occurs when the mean or average amplitude of the waveform is not zero or vice versa.
how cool! i love the attention u stressed on creating the best possible sound at source! the least amount of processing the better imo. bravo to the drummer as well
Coolaboola...brilliant!!!!!!!!!!! The song is really catchy. Thanks very much
Thanks ever so much
The SM57 is still my go-to snare mic. It seems to capture the most essential elements of a snare drum, both top and bottom. I also like the darker, less open Beyer M201, especially with cymbals/hat bleed issues as it has superior rear and side rejection. Plus a 100Hz bump which accentuates with proximity.
Nice to see this kind of process underway. I'm actually just about to start tracking drums for my new album. I loved how the Periscope mic just need a nudge to fatten up the snare fatness-wise, just goes to show! Thanks Warren and everyone!
Thank you for the comment! We also recommend to move the Periscope about a bit to change the tone and transient response!
What a GROOVE that drummer had, even with his brass taken away. Amazing musicianship! 441 is on the to-buy list...
Yes, they were ALL wonderful musicians!!
Wow Doobie Brothers/ Steely Dan mood! I love it! Is the song available on Spotify?
Haha yes! The Doobie Brothers was a huge reference point
I love Intruder. Such an atmospheric track.
Thank you for another interesting video.
Yes, an absolute masterpiece!
Hey. Could you do a video on mixing with drum software like EZDrummer? Not all of us can have access to a real drummer and software is our only option. I'm not sure if we need to EQ/compress etc. Thanks and keep up the great work 🙂
Interesting! I have done that with Addictive drums!
Awesome techniques. I am a believer in mic placement before touching the console.
Please let us know who this song is by and the name of it and how we can find it to hear the final mix.
After all, the fun of being a producer or engineer is the final result, as well as the process.
very good live Performance
Yes, amazing musicians
It's like I was right there. Go Martin!!
Hahaha exactly!
14:51 you certainty got the drummer for the job. This could have easily gone south. Sounds great…👍
Thanks ever so much!
Love this!
Thanks ever so much
The Craviotto snare actually sounded great to my ears. But I can see that Warren has a specific sound in mind.
Agreed! You have great ears! Both wonderful snares
Yea, the 441 is usually my go-to for bottom snare, but it definitely doesn't work all the time. Sometimes it gets really ratty like Warren experienced here.
Thanks ever so much for sharing
What eq-ing did you do on the kick and snare on the way in? Very interesting vid. Cheers Kim Australia
I tend to only EQ the kicks in, removing some low mids around 350hz, boosting 50-60hz on the lows and maybe a little 2.5k for the attack
Great exp and knowledge of recording and studio workings and oversight from one who has more skill than I will ever catch up with. I think this is geared to understanding drum kit microphone and array configurations but it is way easier in the studio and live than this.
I will say that in 50 yrs playing drum-kit and other instruments in my home studio I feel the drum-kit is better served tracked with a top end Roland or similar high end electronic kit.
The drummer will like it much more bc after his or her take(s) they can sit in the control room and discuss the manipulation of the performance and the synth sounds. And not have to $pend countless hours and studio time in setting up a kit.
I think Warren needs to get us more focused on information (and his amazing knowledge and experience ) in the actual microphones and placements for vocals, guitar cabinets and room presence techniques. Most drummers want/need to play the session in the moment and in the pocket.
His skills and knowledge is 'sorta' not needed with 8 microphones on a snare drum and kik drum.
He has massive skills and needs to focus us on a different instrument and studio workings.
I know much less then he but can get a cleaner sound, faster with an electronic kit...
nick fr Navarre Fl...
Thanks ever so much for sharing!! I really appreciate it!
So good.
Thanks ever so much!
Very good drummer!! It’s cool to see the DC offset graphics of the Periscope mic
Hi and thank you for your comment, there is actually no “DC OFFSET” as such on the Periscope, what you see is the actual compression
@@scope_labs no? Why the positive and the negative side of the wave is so different? You can have tons of compression on a signal but “ideally” both the + and the - side of the wave must be equal.
Usually that doesn’t affect the sound and it is just visual (well, in fact you have less headroom) but definitely some phase rotation is going on.
@@victorgarcia6912 nope that is simply due to the sidechain rectification, no phase rotation or anything like that.
@@scope_labswould you mind to explain a little bit more please? I clearly see a DC offset graph; the positive part of the wave is nearly flat and the negative has plenty of spkies. Either way, I LOVE that mic and how it sounds ❤️🙌🏼
the poor guy needs some padding for his thighs!! 😁😁
very interesting look at getting a stripped down drum beat onto "tape"
thank you for a great vid, as always
Haha thanks for sharing!
So, i saw the previous studio tour, and forgot this was for a class. So when i saw all the people in the room, i was like "Wow! Warren is REALLY famous in the music industry! Look at all these people that came to watch how he mic's up a drum kit!" Hahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Recently I was made aware of the fact that engaging the pad on the mic increases the noise floor in comparison to engaging a pad or backing off the gain on your interface or preamp. In addition, utilizing the pad on the mic influences the sound quite a bit (often negatively), as more signal is being pushed through the onboard preamp of the mic, which may overload the circuitry in a negative way. My home experiments with my condensers, particularly with overhead mics, have verified this. I get better results by not engaging the pads on my ATM450's, and instead backing the gain off on my interface preamps, in this case an Antelope Discrete 8 Synergy Core. Just food for thought…
Thanks for the comment, who told you that? I can't anything to support that notion, for instance here is the number one article on the subject from a very reputable source 'As the mic's basic noise floor always stays the same, regardless of whether you use the pad or not, engaging the switch decreases the s/n of the mic by 10dB. In other words, the mic's amp has 10dB less signal to work with, but it will still produce the same background hiss/noise.'
Plus of course the PAD is Passive, hence passive attenuation device, before the mics own pre amp so it is the best place to stop audio distortion. If the SPL is to high and distorts that there's nothing you can do at your interface to clean that up. Shelly Yakus (and most of the big New York Engineers) is a big proponent of using PADs on Mics.
The more I read your message I believe I understand your misconception, PADs are there to stop the mic's own pre amp from distorting, that's why the PAD (before it) is engaged. If of course your interfaces mic pres can't handle the amplitude coming into them, then of course you'll have to use their PAD. However, the PAD on the mic serves a different purpose than the one you're describing, it's to stop distortion coming to your mic pre, not stopping your interfaces mic press from distorting.
If was micing this set of drums I would have done like the late Al Schmitt did on snare. AKG C 452EB on the Top and Shure SM57 on bottom out of phase. Along with AKG D12 on the kick. with No EQ. Audio-Techina AE 2500 on the Kick and a AE2300 on Snare or ATM350D on the Snare.
houston we have contact
Indeed
❤😊
Thanks ever so much!
Slightly concerned by your input (digital) printing levels. They are peaking pretty high, and you are well over the -18dbFS average recommended level here. Were you aware of this at the time and if so any reason why you are printing so hot and risk clipping?
Maybe it sounded good for him? No rules
He mentioned applying a pad to one of the preamps to avoid clipping since it would affect the separation, so he was definitely keeping an eye on it.
With all due respect, I never really understood the obsession with the very arbitrary "rule" about recording levels at -18dbFS. As long as it is not clipping, it does not matter if its -6, 12 or 18. All those levels can be clip gained up or down after the fact. One instrument recorded at -18 might not sound at all balanced with a different one, tracked at what looks like the same volume. So, since this initial level is moot w/r/t different instruments, we still have to "gain stage" after tracking, during mixing, and every single time we add eq, compression or anything else. Which means, its not one discrete process. The whole gain staging thing is totally overdone and is a more of a solution looking for a problem.
Hi @NorthernMonkeyMusic as others are saying, I wouldn't;t be concerned about printing hot. Getting the most out of the analog equipment means you get hotter signals which won;t distort anything during the analog to digital conversion process and then are being monitored through an anole console which has no problem handing the levels.
In my HO, the snare could be tuned better 😏
When you say better, do you mean higher? Lower? Less even?