i literally didnt look in the comments, watched the video first, and went down to type "Does Garlic Jr count as a transformation or is it a buff-up like Roshi when i saw this first.
@@juannaym8488 hes one of my favorite anime original characters, maybe my personal favorite (yes even over broly). He was such a great bridge characer into Z cause from a power/transformation standpoint he was a Z style character but from backstory and background felt very OG dragonball. Essentially a competent, powerful pilaf with a somewhat mysterious backstory regarding his and his father's relationship with Kami as guardian. Im rather surprised that i dont think any ancillary media has been made to follow up on that. A dragonball story with no saiyan elements might be fun, especially if they tied in to how the original namek split into king picollo and kami. BTW, stupid question: who was the guardian of Namek? Nail? Guru? Guru was referred to as Elder and i dont think nail had a title. Waa Guardian only an earth title that either Kami or pre-split namekian inherited?
@@sethyarbrough5204 it's about as much of a transformation as when the Namekian Elder put his hand on Gohan's Head and yeeted someone of his inner potential out of him.
@@DemonicRemption originally, yes it was just his insane power fully extended. That’s why he didn’t go SSJ, he had no more power hidden inside, but they switched it in Super. Now it is Gohan’s unique transformation (sadly)
@topher nolastname It still isn't a true transformation. It's just not his permanent base form, either. Think of it like Kaioken 2.0 in a sense, except it can't be stacked with his Super Saiyan forms. He can tap into his full power in his base form via the Ultimate state that supersedes all other transformations.
I like how this is less "honorable mentions" and more "we're discussing literally every option that didn't make the list since you all know what number one is anyway".
TBFH, part of it is literally just us trying to tackle the inevitable "BUT WHAT DID YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT (ENTER FORM HERE)!???!" so we could just be all like "HONORABLE MENTIONS VIDEO BITCH"
I'm seven minutes in and it looks like Launch's transformation was missed. I'm very disappointed that the first character to become more powerful with blonde hair was skipped over.
Fun fact: Raging Blast 2 had a TON of unique character interactions in vs. mode and one of them was Perfect Cell calling out Super 13 on being a rip off.
Things I like about metal cooler : - the way his body rebuilds itself -the glare coming from the sun on his body -the shot of an army of him rushing vegeta and goku -the part near the end of the movie when goku and vegeta fight him in the big geti star
Timestamps: 2:16 Monster Carrot's Transformations 3:08 Oolong and Puar 4:07 Buff Roshi 4:48 Super Saiyan Grade 3 (Buff Trunks) 6:34 Man-Wolf 8:46 Giant Namekian 10:25 Zarbon 12:06 Frieza Forms 2 and 3 15:56 Final Form Cooler 22:11 Pseudo Super Saiyan (from Lord Slug) 24:00 Super Android 13 25:17 Cell's Forms 30:18 Metal Cooler 32:15 Bojack's "transformation" is briefly mentioned 32:54 Fusion (Potara mainly) 37:40 Majin Vegeta 45:39 They bring up whether they considered Kid Buu as a transformation or not 49:10 Super Saiyan Blue 51:33 They realize they forgot Ultimate Gohan 55:17 Back to Blue 1:01:05 Golden Frieza 1:05:28 Super Saiyan Rosé 1:10:44 Super Saiyan Rage 1:14:28 Merged Zamasu is mentioned briefly 1:15:33 Ribrianne's Transformation 1:17:33 Top's God of Destruction Form 1:20:06 Super Saiyan Royal Blue 1:22:32 Ultra Instinct is brought up briefly while discussing Royal Blue 1:26:00 Baby's Transformations (they briefly mention Heroes during this) 1:26:47 Super 17 1:28:33 Shadow Dragon Transformations 1:31:36 Broly's Wrath Form 1:33:27 General Rilldo is jokingly mentioned 1:33:48 Moro is briefly talked about (from the Super Manga)
@@joeferri3491 I cant remember which video it was, but SSJ4 actually made the list. They do give their thoughts on it, I just cant remember which placement it got.
Oh fuck me, now I'm imagining the kids trying to teach Vegeta to play Smash. "WHAT?! When you said you wanted to smash(roshi in the background, "HEH HEEEEH"), I thought you meant you wanted a REAL fight! This is Child's pla-wait, why am I-WHAT JUST HAPPENED! HOW DID YOU LITTLE BRATS BEAT ME SO QUICKLY! I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!" Goku: "Aww, don't worry, jeets, you'll do better next time!" "SHUT IT KAKAROT!"
Also Goku would totally pick Ken. And argue that Ken was a super saiyan. "But vegeeeeta, he's TOTALLY me! He's got the same orange gi, he can do the kamehameha, he's got the super saiyan blonde hair-" "YOU IDIOT! Do you seriously think everyone with blonde hair is a super saiyan?! DO YOU THINK BULMA'S MOTHER IS A SUPER SAIYAN!?" "Wait, Bulma's mom is a super saiyan?" "GYAAAAAAH"
I think Frieza absolutely had to be Goku’s fight honestly Vegeta was considered beyond redemption at that point; him leaving the one person he hates most in the universe to the only living member of his species Is more narratively appropriate than handling it himself, and Goku himself WANTS to fight Frieza because, at the time, he was the strongest fighter the universe had ever seen. In both that, and Goku accepting his Saiyan heritage and the responsibility to end frieza that came with it, it was an appropriate capstone to his arc Resurrection F SHOULD have been Vegeta’s kill though; man was robbed
100% agree. Goku gets to beat frieza first time, cause he's the main character and first super saiyan yadda yadda. But resurrection F... nah that was just a dirty little kill steal that should never have happened. Vegeta deserved to finally get his revenge
@ BLUE... Ok picture this, resurrection f plays out the same, except goku uses super sayian god and is not doing as good or having a harder time keeping up but ultimately still leading to freeza getting dude to shoot goku, HOWEVER, vegeta going blue plays out exactly the same. I know we still wouldn't see the full gaining of the form, but since vegeta was working on it long before goku it would make more sense, also some huge fan service for good old geetz!
On that talk about Frieza’s second form, that moment where he gored Krillin was just as horrifying in the Toonami english dub. That moment haunted me for a long time.
Honestly thick zarbon is an important one it introduces the idea of transformations that aren’t the great ape. The purely power or combat transformations. Prior I don’t believe the great AoE was ever stated to actually make you stronger just more difficult to deal with and behind that it’s only the second real one unless you count giant Namekian but that does the same thing that great ape does prior to the power boost addition.
List idea-Top 12 Items/machines in Dragon ball (Senzu beans, scouters, power pole, time machine, flying nimbus, "androids" with unlimited energy, capsules, room of spirit and time, the dragon balls etc.)
I know many people celebrate Christmas today with family moreso than tomorrow, so Merry Christmas everyone! Hopefully 2021 is a better year for us all.
Southern Transformation Kindergarten "A prestigious academy at which children learn how to shapeshift. Oolong and Puar both attended the academy, but Oolong was kicked out for stealing his teacher's panties". SHAPESHIFTING ACADEMY Z-ENCYCLOPEDIA SUMMARY IN DRAGON BALL Z: KAKAROT
Is nobody gonna talk about baseball yamcha as a transformation since he puts on the uniform and it temporarily transforms him into a useful character in super if only for a short time XD
As mentioned in their Tenkaichi 3, (if) they do Buu Saga, Lani will push for Majin Vegita to have an existential crisis. "I went to a barbecue with Krillan, AND I LIKED IT"
yeah after Buu killed him he became all goofy, i like to think that's a mental break from being The Demon King yet got rekt by a plump pink powerhouse.
I think a good list for next year would be: Top 12 Anime Music Pieces, since as you've mentioned in this list and last years, or the year before, that music can often make a scene, a-la Gohan's transformation to SSJ2 and the Goku-Jakie Chun fight
"Goku narratively has no reason to fight Frieza/it'd be better without Goku" still makes zero sense. Frieza impaled Krillin, nearly crushed Gohan's skull and then point blank tried to atomize him, tortured the hell out of Piccolo and would have invalidated *everything* they fought for if he had succeeded, and *did* torture Vegeta to death. I don't see why Goku not being destined to fight Frieza doesn't change how important it is *to* fight Frieza. You'd think "he's trying to murder my son and friends, and plans to fuck up my home since we just had to stop his plan to fix our stuff" is enough reason for someone to have a need to battle.
I think they meant that Vegeta had more reason to kill Freeza on a narrative level. He lost everything because of him and has been his slave for a large part of his life. The prince killing Freeza would arguably have been more satisfying, but I very much disagree that Goku vs Freeza has no weight behind it. It's a clash of ideologies, where Goku believes he can always be stronger, while Freeza believes none can be stronger than himself. Goku is kindhearted and forgiving, while Freeza is cruel and ruthless. Their complete contrast exentuates these traits and pushes them both to the limit. It's awesome! I just wish Vegeta could AT LEAST kill Freeza in the movie.
Lani mentioning Ultimate Gohan right before they discussed Majin Vegeta and then them forgetting to address it later made me sad, but was really emblematic of Ultimate Gohan's treatment within the series as a whole.
Majin Vegeta was such an important transformation, because it put right in our face the contrast in character of where Vegeta started, and where he was now.
@@RetroIsaac Not every arc's quality depends on the villian and/or antagonist. For example, the Tournament of Power. Most people I know really enjoyed the arc. But as we all know, Jiren is a garage character with a Dollar Store version of Sasuke's Backstory and with little to no personality.
@@stephenolsantos2981 All I'm saiyan is that if they do that list, it'll most likely line up with the villains list. Hell most of the arcs are named after the villains. Saiyan saga, Android saga, Cell Saga, Buu saga. Also, tournament of power sucked.
Was trying to think of western shows that had transformations and then I immediately felt stupid for not instantly thinking of frikin transformers. Like my mind actually went to Mumm-Ra from thundercats before it thought of transformers.
Megatron in Beast Wars feels the most like full-on transformation, like Cell. He went from a T-rex, to a robotic T-rex, to a dragon over the course of the show.
@blisswonder Transformers aside, there's Mumm-Ra, He-man and She-Ra, a part of me wants to count The Hulk since he had a cartoon in the 60s and another in the 90s. EDIT:Oh yeah and the Ninja Turtles has transformations in like season 7 or so of the 87 cartoon. I'm not sure what caused it, but after arriving on an alien planet, the TMNT would take on transform temporarily into these bulky spiky shelled forms.
@@anueutsuho7425 If I recall correctly Megatron's initial "transmetal"(yes this is what it was called) transformation was caused by the explosion of Unicron's corpse and the second one was the result of him taking a lava bath are a reaction caused by coming in contact with his ancestor's spark. That said, I can see why you'd compare his transformation to Cell's. :p
TFS TY for posting this. I'm feeling really damn down rn and while this didnt fix it. It made one hour more bearable. Seriously THANK YOU! Not just for this but for all the content over the years. It really means a ton
@@doggosho3044 I'm not complaining as the Talkcast Podshow is usually what I listen to while working early morning shifts. But the energy feels less of a DBCember list and more in line with their podcast.
Schemmel has said it himself about Zeno Goku Black. All he was told was that it was evil Goku. Then when they got more info on Black, Schemmel was able to tweak the voice a little to have it more fit the character.
Regarding Ultimate Gohan: I like the idea. I like that, after the series became all about transformations and additions, Gohan gets the ability to use his full power without transforming. I like the fact that his Super Saiyan power has been incorporated into his base form is signposted by Ultimate Gohan's appearance (his eyes are sharper and fully outlined like a Super Saiyan, but he still has black hair and black eyes). However, the power-up is unearned, it's wasted by the narrative, and I *really* don't like that modern Dragon Ball treats it like a transformation that Gohan can power up to and down from. So overall, it's mid. Super Saiyan Blue? Kinda neat concept, boring-ass design, completely wasted by the narrative. If I said it once, I've said it a thousand times: Super Saiyan God should've just been *THE* form for Dragon Ball Super. If Blue had to exist, Goku And Vegeta shouldn't have gotten it until the Tournament of Power, after we the audience have had time to get used to God.
Agreed on Ultimate Gohan and SSB. The original Super Saiyan God is better in almost every concievable way possible, no idea why they even bothered creating Blue. Red is so much more striking and really sells the power of god ki. SSB *sometimes* looks great. It doesn't look powerful or striking, because blue is a subdued and calming color. I also hate how its aura often makes their skin look so *yellow.* It rarely looks great or visually impactful. It's not a unique form in almost any meaningful way. They should have just used original SSG. Now, if Blue had at least looked like Vegeta's Blue Evolution from the start, then I'd actually give it a pass based on visuals alone, cuz damn Blue Evolution looks great. It actually looks like a continuation of SSG! SSB is ultimately just...so superfluous.
Yea, Blue was a huge letdown. Didn't deserve a place on the list, glad it didn't. Based on how it was initially presented, I had assumed it to be a refinement on Goku using Super Saiyan with God power from Battle of Gods, with God ultimately being the stronger form...but no...we got something way worse...
Honestly? Blue was a great concept: After assimilate the power of the Super Saiyan God in his body, they could channel it into a Super Saiyan Form and give born to Blue, but yeah... The way they obtained (or didn't obtained) was pretty lackluster... But I have to say is my favorite transformation so far thanks to what the manga did with it. It is strong, fast and powerful but it loses energy very quickly, making it an ace in the hole when need it (unlike the anime). That weak point made the battles with the God Forms so much interesting with things like transformation switching, going from Super Saiyan God to Blue for an attack, or the way Goku and Vegeta perfected the transformation by not letting it lose the energy and store it inside their bodies. And even then, the amount of power that the form generates damage their bodies. It's like the Kaio-Ken in the regard that is a huge big risk, big reward ability!
One of the coolest things about Super Saiyan Rosé to me is the fact that Black's ki blades are made from his compressed Super Saiyan Rosé aura. That concept is just really awesome and makes me wonder what ki blades forged out of other forms' auras would look like.
Honestly hearing them talk about stuff that happens in the BU arc just makes me miss DBZA I know they’re done but a part of me still wants to see what a DBZA Bu saga would look like
When it comes to Super Saiyan Royal Blue, I always understood it as Vegeta finding new depths of power for the first time out of Selflessness and his Pride instead of just rage. When he's transforming, you see him flashing back to the promises he's made. I thought it was great motivation for a transformation, and a good character moment, even if it doesn't look the best.
1:09:40 - What I like about super saiyan rose is that it plays with the whole god ki thing a little bit. Up until that point we'd been told "oh Goku has god ki now" but it doesn't really mean very much other than it's more powerful ki. But with rose it introduces this idea that even though Goku has reached some sort of godhood, there is still an inherent difference between Goku who achieved godhood and creatures who are naturally gods. And I like that little bit of complexity and nuance added to it. I just wish they would have expanded on that, because I love lore.
Funnily enough, when they described Ultimate Gohan's look, it made me realize that it resembles Ultra Instinct somewhat (minus the aura and eyes). Basically the general theme of the change in appearance being minor, and more of a focus on "unlocked ability".
I think the best way to explain Gohan losing his "Ultimate" form is that he grew so lax and unused to fighting that he basically forgot how to draw it out - that or his body couldn't handle it. It's also why they made a point in the anime that he struggled to go Super Saiyan against Ginyu-Toma. It's also possible it was a mental/psychological thing where he believed he no longer had it in him to naturally raise his power high enough to surpass Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2, so he went with those instead initially because he lost that confidence in his own potential. It's why Piccolo was able to coax it out of Gohan because he pushed Gohan to remember what kind of potential he really has. IIRC Gohan was partially scared of tapping fully into it because he knew his pride/ego when getting super powerful ended up ruining his initial chance to kill Cell and then later Super Buu, and he was afraid that would happen again if he tapped into his full potential once more. That's the best way to explain it at least. As for Blue, I assume they learned the fundamentals of it when they were in Whis's pocket dimension. In there, they learned that the trick to controlling their god ki was to not let any ki leak out of them. From that they could then transform into Super Saiyan while utilizing their god ki which is what Super Saiyan Blue essentially is - and it's because of this perfected ki control that Goku was able to use Kaioken with it in the anime. So one could argue they never were shown unlocking it because it wasn't a new form per se, they just had to learn how to attain perfect ki control when using the god ki they inherently absorbed/retained from achieving Super Saiyan God. After that, all they had to do was then go Super Saiyan. It's also why they can't go Super Saiyan 2+ in it (yet) because those forms revolved around maximizing one's power at the cost of leaking ki. So once they figured out that key component to utilizing god ki, they were able to apply it to boosting Super Saiyan with their god ki. And Blue eats up significantly more stamina due to needing to maintain that constant ki control so that's why they still use their regular Super Saiyan forms when they feel like they don't need to go all out.
yknow that thing you were talking about with the "vegeta should harness the attack side and goku harness the defense side" regarding ultra instinct looks like he's doin that, neat
The manga's treatment of Blue is way better than the anime's, I feel, where it has an actual downside of being a huuuuuge stamina drain. And Goku and Vegeta have to eventually push past that. It also allows SS God to stick around a bit longer and be relevant, and even give a reason for Vegeta to make use of it. But overall I don't really like Blue cause of its visuals. The blue color is fine, but I don't like that both their hair and eyes turn blue. I wish their eyes were a different color, like maybe the grey that SS Rose gets.
My problem with the whole Gohan thing in Super: Gohan doesn’t learn from not training in the years leading up to Buu. Gohan is shown still being Great Saiyaman at the end of Z so he in some capacity wants to make use of his powers. I get if he doesn’t train ALL the time, but I feel he would have at least put in enough so that if anything were to happen, Gohan at least isn’t utterly weak. Even after meeting Beerus, Gohan doesn’t really think that maybe he should get his power back up in case things happen, then Resurrection F happens. When the movie happens, Gohan has made this mistake for the THIRD time.
I don’t mind Gohan getting curbstomped in Resurrection F. I actually think Toriyama purposely did so, judging from how he redesigned Gohan to have a lot less muscle mass and simple, non-fighter hair. When I saw Freeza assault Gohan, I thought the scene was meant to emphasize Gohan feeling like he hasn’t lived up to his potential. BUT, TORIYAMA DOES N O T H I N G WITH IT!! He had the PERFECT setup for a character arc for Gohan that starts from the Universe 6 Arc to the Universe Survival Arc, showing Gohan’s comeback story as he tries to be stronger for himself AND his growing family! Have Gohan fight in the Universe 6 tournament!! I would personally make it so Gohan is technically the weakest fighter (his power would be a little behind Piccolo) but make him the SMARTEST fighter!! Let Gohan use that big brain of his!! Do more with Gohan and Trunks in the Goku Black Arc!! Not anything major or fighting-wise, but some more character work between the two! Future Trunks and Gohan have such a unique relationship given the circumstances of their impact on each other’s childhoods and it could have been an amazing stepping stone towards Gohan’s character development!! Do more with Gohan in the Universe Survival Arc!! That arc generally painted Gohan in a good light, but why make him the leader if he’s not going to do anything!! ALSO, let Gohan and Freeza have a rematch before the start of the tournament! It would be an amazing way to show just how far Gohan has come since his humiliating defeat at the hands of Freeza 60 episodes prior!!
also gohan can go super saiyan again cause his potential needs training to stay peaked. it's like work out. if you don't do it, you gotta earn it back again.
Just to make a quick remark re: Goku Black's voice, I've been told that Masako Nozawa based her performance on her Super Saiyan 4 voice, which was level, neutral, and vaguely menacing, without any of Goku's usual cheerful optimism. I also heard that the voice direction for Xenoverse 2 was kind of bad, and the English actors were often told to just imitate the Japanese. So it's entirely possible that Sean Schemmel was told "Just use your SSJ4 voice for Black" - except his interpretation of SSJ4 was guttural and raspy, which works when you're doing "semi-feral monkey man" but less so with "fallen god in Goku's body". Not laying blame or applying critique, just remarking.
Whis teaches Vegeta to achieve SSJ God: "Everyone has a tiny spark of the divine inside of themselves, the key is to find it, and draw it out. No amount physical exercise will allow you to get it; you'll have to find calmness, and dig into the deepest recesses of your being." Since Goku just got the power from the ritual, it is Vegeta achieving SSJG like this, that gives him the greater ki control; and as such the prerequisites to achieve SSJB, which requires great ki control, first. Golden Frieza knocks Goku aside, and goes to town on Vegeta; repeating the beat down he give him back on Namek. Holds Vegeta in his tail around his neck, "So here we are again, Vegeta; no matter what hair dye you put in your hair, you're still nothing but a monkey." Vegeta flashes back to Namek, where he gave up, and the time he gave up afterward; just before he achieved SSJ, right after the defeat of Cell and declaring he'd never fight again, letting Babidi take control, blowing himself up against Buu, believing Goku is just plain better than he is against Buu, groveling before Bills, being glad Goku is the one fight; and every single time when his own inner self wouldn't let him stay down and achieve more power than he ever thought possible. Frieza punches, Vegeta grabs Frieza's hand, and almost serenely says, "I am Vegeta, prince of all Saiyans, do you really think this fight was going to be this easy? That I was just going to give up?" Vegeta's red SSJG eyes turn SSJ teal, "The might of the gods themselves is mine, this is only beginning." Frieza jerks in shock at the eyes, above him we see him standing across Trunks, and his thought now overlapping with his thought then, the same thought: "They have the same eyes." Vegeta's eyes grow more blue, blue electric discharges appear in his SSJG aura, his red hair flashes blue for a moment; Freeza starts desperately attacking and trying to break Vegeta's neck; but it doesn't work, apart from a grimace the transformation completes; Divine Super Saiya-jin Vegeta (such a better name than SSGSSJ, or SSJB) is fully formed, and proceeds to defeat Frieza. You could even have Goku ask Vegeta what he did; and him saying I went SSJ, and when Goku tries and fails, asks Vegeta to teach him, and he just says, "Knowing you, you'll figure it out on your own." And after Goku goes, "Come one, that's not fair," the human Z-fighters go, "Hey, we weren't at King Kai's long enough to be taught the Kaio-ken, how about you finish that?" And Piccolo goes, "And that Instant Transmission is pretty useful; teaching us that would only be fair, right?" Goku scratches the back of his head embarrassed; presto, reasons why the humans and Piccolo can catch up to boot.
Why is this so good? Maybe with each punch Frieza lands, it's one of those flashes. Also, I love how Frieza's "They have the same eyes" is also a callback to when he first saw Goku. First he saw the father in the son, now he sees the son in the father.
Really surprised Zarbon wasn't on the list. His transformation had a lot of weight. He not only stopped Vegeta's post-Saiyan arc winning streak, he absolutely demolished Vegeta, then said something (that wasn't in the original dub I saw) that made Vegeta even more scared- Frieza can also transform, and what chance dies he have against the boss if he can't even scratch the minion in his true form. Zarbon was a real yardstick and showed what the Zenkai boost could really do when they have their rematch, in which Vegeta pulverized monster Zarbon and even made him beg for his life before finishing him off. That boost doesn't quite have the same impact when Vegeta got it after Racoome and later Krillen nearly killed him. Zarbon's legacy is still felt today given that in the Super manga Vegeta fought a member of Zarbon's race who turned into an alligator monster as well, but by this point Vegeta had tusseled with gods, so a transforming alligator man was small potatoes and taken out with minimal difficulty.
Listening to you guys talk about blue as I type this, I agree with lani right off. It’s unearned and there’s no explanation to its existence. They didn’t say how it was stronger or what it did differently than 3. I love the entrance of it. That like breaking down blue energy panning up to the hair. I absolutely love that. But they hardly talked about what was different than super saiyan and there was no showing of then actually achieving it or why they went for it.
The inner giddy child in me, takes control when talking about transformations and stuff like that. Everything is cool when it's a transformation, I don't care about story shit or anything else.
THANK YOU. I love this version of Blue. Like, come on, the show doesn't do the best job of explaining it, and if they'd just labled it as SSB2 it'd be far better, but you gotta love the leadin to that form. Like, the man is desperately trying to keep a promise to a friend, something he hadn't done all that much AT ALL up until this point, and yeah it's framed through his pride but that's just Vegeta, everything is filtered through that hubris. And the use of Limit Break x Survivor (Instrumental C) for that sequence is just gorgeous. Kaiser is just a meany poopyhead. (he's not I met him he's a total sweetie I'm sorry Scott differences of opinion happen I love you all the same)
Royal blue was a fucking LEGENDARY moment. Idgaf what anyone thinks. Vegeta is finally getting to move away from being gokus little sidekick. He tried to do ultra instinct and realized it just wasnt his vibe. So he said FUCK that I'm gonna own this shit and do it my way. He fights for a reason and he wants to remember those reasons with every punch he throws, rather than thoughtless fighting. because he draws strength from it. As seen with him SURPASSING SSJ3 GOKU in his ssj form when beerus slapped bulma. Let him just have one fucking thing please. Stop hating on my boi who LITERALLY PUNCHED THROUGH TOPPOS HAKAI. He fought jiren to the end. Respect
Buu Arc Vegeta is best Vegeta, change my mind. He has a showdown with Goku, he overcomes Babidi’s control through his saiyan pride alone, admits that he loves his family, he hugs his son for the first time, he SACRIFICES HIMSELF FOR OTHERS, and he admits that Goku is (at the time at least) his better.
Just like Toriyama, they forgot Launch
I can’t like that because of how it hits. But you speak the truth so I can’t dislike.
Launch is a super saiyan so it's fine
And Hirudegarn
@@OhCityGround wait what
@@samuelwilliams663 he was on a list
Elephant in the room: Garlic Jr. and henchmen.
i literally didnt look in the comments, watched the video first, and went down to type "Does Garlic Jr count as a transformation or is it a buff-up like Roshi when i saw this first.
What ever happened to Launch?
@@squadalaguydc Toriyama forgot about Launch.
Garlic Jr.'s transformation is genuily cool
He's so big and buff and looks so cooool
@@juannaym8488 hes one of my favorite anime original characters, maybe my personal favorite (yes even over broly).
He was such a great bridge characer into Z cause from a power/transformation standpoint he was a Z style character but from backstory and background felt very OG dragonball.
Essentially a competent, powerful pilaf with a somewhat mysterious backstory regarding his and his father's relationship with Kami as guardian. Im rather surprised that i dont think any ancillary media has been made to follow up on that. A dragonball story with no saiyan elements might be fun, especially if they tied in to how the original namek split into king picollo and kami.
BTW, stupid question: who was the guardian of Namek? Nail? Guru? Guru was referred to as Elder and i dont think nail had a title. Waa Guardian only an earth title that either Kami or pre-split namekian inherited?
Honorable mention: Lani transforming from a down on his luck rugby player to a successful writer and voice actor
That's not an honorable mention. That's #1.
@@tencents6 yea super saiyan aint shit compared to this
@justanotherchannelonyoutube
Wait what...?
Thats really interesting i never knew that till now
Lani an ex rugby player? Does this come up later in the video and if so, link where please or is this a joke thats completely gone over my head?
"We forgot about Ultimate Gohan."
Don't worry, the show did too.
@James W.
That's not a transformation, just all of Gohan's latent potential brought to the surface.
@@DemonicRemption it’s totally a transformation, it’s stronger than SS2 and SS3 and it’s basically the same changes as God just with no Red Hair.
@@sethyarbrough5204 it's about as much of a transformation as when the Namekian Elder put his hand on Gohan's Head and yeeted someone of his inner potential out of him.
@@DemonicRemption originally, yes it was just his insane power fully extended. That’s why he didn’t go SSJ, he had no more power hidden inside, but they switched it in Super. Now it is Gohan’s unique transformation (sadly)
@topher nolastname It still isn't a true transformation. It's just not his permanent base form, either. Think of it like Kaioken 2.0 in a sense, except it can't be stacked with his Super Saiyan forms. He can tap into his full power in his base form via the Ultimate state that supersedes all other transformations.
How dare you not call this video “Honorable Transfor-Mentions”
Because that's terrible
Sorry
@@itsnottimetostop4462 that’s the point
They totally should have said that, it's so genius 😂👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Because clearly they aren't as smart as you.
Piccolo: "Shit, that's actually good."
I like how this is less "honorable mentions" and more "we're discussing literally every option that didn't make the list since you all know what number one is anyway".
TBFH, part of it is literally just us trying to tackle the inevitable "BUT WHAT DID YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT (ENTER FORM HERE)!???!" so we could just be all like "HONORABLE MENTIONS VIDEO BITCH"
@@KaiserNeko BUT WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT LAUNCH, GARLIC.JR, AND THE PICCOLO ABSORPTIONS?! (Joking btw)
@@goldkobold6496 also hirudegarn
number 1 will be vegeta going from tall hair and clean shaven to flat top with mustache in gt
Or from short saiyan to tall tuffle
Moose-taaash
I still want to see the super saiyan 3 Form of this.
Giant blonde flat top and a face that's all mustache from the nose down.
When he was the Fresh Prince of Saiyans?
@@Darilon12 you mean Paul from Tekken with facial hair?
I'm seven minutes in and it looks like Launch's transformation was missed. I'm very disappointed that the first character to become more powerful with blonde hair was skipped over.
Their hair goes from dark to blonde.
Their rage strengthens them exponentially.
They are Launch.
Lunch was the first Super Saiyan in the entire series OAO
@@GunlessSnake and that's why Super Saiyans are number 1
JUSTICE FOR LAUNCH!!!
(Takes off glasses)
...mother of god.
@@bigpappasmoggie she's still alive
Honorable mentions
LONGER THAN THE ENTIRE LIST PUT TOGETHER
That's what happens when it's three friends shooting the shit and not reading a script.
And just shows how many transformations there were to consider
Janemba: *Pulls out a demon sword*
Tfs: "OH MY GOD HE'S SO GOD DAMN COOL!"
"But he so stupid"
“But he’s so! Goddamn dumb!”
@Inductive Grunt9
That was also my reaction to Janemba doing that.
The color scheme on that sword is pretty fricken cool.
Well, they're not wrong.
I loved the Ribrianne transformation for one reason: 17 interrupts it and then everyone tells him off.
Fun fact: Raging Blast 2 had a TON of unique character interactions in vs. mode and one of them was Perfect Cell calling out Super 13 on being a rip off.
Raging Blast was great imo.
@Robert O'Hara
Really? I'mma have to see that Cell vs. 13 interaction.
well i mean last i checked cell is a ripoff of like piccolo frieza king cold goku vegeta and probably nappa
@@themagicalonionfairy7455 ? In what way do you compare Nappa to Cell?
Funny how 13 is older than cell so therefore, 13 is a cell prototype and cell a ripoff/perfection
Things I like about metal cooler :
- the way his body rebuilds itself
-the glare coming from the sun on his body
-the shot of an army of him rushing vegeta and goku
-the part near the end of the movie when goku and vegeta fight him in the big geti star
-The part where he kicks Vegeta in the dick
@@Matrim42 solid
@@Matrim42 “Wow. I can’t believe every one of them kicked you in the sick.”
Don't you mean...
THE SPAGHETTI STA-
Ah yes, the baked Spaghetti star. Let us never forget that fight
I do hope they eventually make that bulma list. I am terribly curious.
Genie costume is my #1.
@@DoctorLazers Bunny Waitress is my #1
Afro bulma is #1
Maybe a larger list of best outfit designs instead of just Bulma, though of course Bulma would feature prominently.
I must confess I dont like Afro Bulma. The dress is cool but I dont like afros
Timestamps:
2:16 Monster Carrot's Transformations
3:08 Oolong and Puar
4:07 Buff Roshi
4:48 Super Saiyan Grade 3 (Buff Trunks)
6:34 Man-Wolf
8:46 Giant Namekian
10:25 Zarbon
12:06 Frieza Forms 2 and 3
15:56 Final Form Cooler
22:11 Pseudo Super Saiyan (from Lord Slug)
24:00 Super Android 13
25:17 Cell's Forms
30:18 Metal Cooler
32:15 Bojack's "transformation" is briefly mentioned
32:54 Fusion (Potara mainly)
37:40 Majin Vegeta
45:39 They bring up whether they considered Kid Buu as a transformation or not
49:10 Super Saiyan Blue
51:33 They realize they forgot Ultimate Gohan
55:17 Back to Blue
1:01:05 Golden Frieza
1:05:28 Super Saiyan Rosé
1:10:44 Super Saiyan Rage
1:14:28 Merged Zamasu is mentioned briefly
1:15:33 Ribrianne's Transformation
1:17:33 Top's God of Destruction Form
1:20:06 Super Saiyan Royal Blue
1:22:32 Ultra Instinct is brought up briefly while discussing Royal Blue
1:26:00 Baby's Transformations (they briefly mention Heroes during this)
1:26:47 Super 17
1:28:33 Shadow Dragon Transformations
1:31:36 Broly's Wrath Form
1:33:27 General Rilldo is jokingly mentioned
1:33:48 Moro is briefly talked about (from the Super Manga)
Thank you for making this you are the best
Much respect for making this list!
thank you
Also do they ever talk about Super Saiyan 4 and does Lani and Kaiser give their opinions on Super Saiyan 4
@@joeferri3491 I cant remember which video it was, but SSJ4 actually made the list. They do give their thoughts on it, I just cant remember which placement it got.
"Janemba has a SWORD! Janemba for Smash!"
Vegeta: "Yesssssss!!!"
Oh fuck me, now I'm imagining the kids trying to teach Vegeta to play Smash. "WHAT?! When you said you wanted to smash(roshi in the background, "HEH HEEEEH"), I thought you meant you wanted a REAL fight! This is Child's pla-wait, why am I-WHAT JUST HAPPENED! HOW DID YOU LITTLE BRATS BEAT ME SO QUICKLY! I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!" Goku: "Aww, don't worry, jeets, you'll do better next time!" "SHUT IT KAKAROT!"
@@TacComControl
Someone needs to animate this.
@@TacComControl why do i see Vegeta maining Sonic or Dk 🤣🤣
@@johnfranklin87 Roshi'd main Bayonetta, and we all know Buu would main Kirby. XD
Also Goku would totally pick Ken. And argue that Ken was a super saiyan. "But vegeeeeta, he's TOTALLY me! He's got the same orange gi, he can do the kamehameha, he's got the super saiyan blonde hair-" "YOU IDIOT! Do you seriously think everyone with blonde hair is a super saiyan?! DO YOU THINK BULMA'S MOTHER IS A SUPER SAIYAN!?" "Wait, Bulma's mom is a super saiyan?" "GYAAAAAAH"
I think Frieza absolutely had to be Goku’s fight honestly
Vegeta was considered beyond redemption at that point; him leaving the one person he hates most in the universe to the only living member of his species Is more narratively appropriate than handling it himself, and Goku himself WANTS to fight Frieza because, at the time, he was the strongest fighter the universe had ever seen. In both that, and Goku accepting his Saiyan heritage and the responsibility to end frieza that came with it, it was an appropriate capstone to his arc
Resurrection F SHOULD have been Vegeta’s kill though; man was robbed
@Jihad Arnold
Goku
Robbing vegeta since the start
100% agree. Goku gets to beat frieza first time, cause he's the main character and first super saiyan yadda yadda. But resurrection F... nah that was just a dirty little kill steal that should never have happened. Vegeta deserved to finally get his revenge
@ BLUE... Ok picture this, resurrection f plays out the same, except goku uses super sayian god and is not doing as good or having a harder time keeping up but ultimately still leading to freeza getting dude to shoot goku, HOWEVER, vegeta going blue plays out exactly the same. I know we still wouldn't see the full gaining of the form, but since vegeta was working on it long before goku it would make more sense, also some huge fan service for good old geetz!
3:03 *aggressively swears to cover bulma’s outfits*
*dead silence for several seconds*
YAS
unironically I'd love to see that
@@roguepsykerhaaker4813 same. I really wish there was more content on the costumes if dragon ball
I'm totally all for if they do character clothing,armor, and costumes.
@@chriscannon8144 I hope they do!!
"some think we have a huge bias love for Jinemba"
"Fuck you Jimeba has a sword"
lmao lmao lmao
27:48
How do you honestly manage to misspell the name twice, and not even spell the misspellings the same? Wow.
I'd argue monster carrot transformation is a technique
A busted technique that we should’ve seen in the tournament of power
@@spoontheguy5397 he died on the moon long before he had a chance to be useful RIP carrotman
@@spoontheguy5397 there's a chance there was a monster carrot type being in universe 6 wasn't there.
And I would argue that it is a joke.
@@michaelhuit Nah, Monster Carrot is still busy existing on the moon
On that talk about Frieza’s second form, that moment where he gored Krillin was just as horrifying in the Toonami english dub. That moment haunted me for a long time.
*coughfreezaCough*
Surely, Chonky Zarbon is going to win
Honestly thick zarbon is an important one it introduces the idea of transformations that aren’t the great ape. The purely power or combat transformations. Prior I don’t believe the great AoE was ever stated to actually make you stronger just more difficult to deal with and behind that it’s only the second real one unless you count giant Namekian but that does the same thing that great ape does prior to the power boost addition.
To be honest he's not all that different. He's just a lot less subtle abou- OH MY GOD!
Super bojack is winning
100%
Did you guys not realize that they said Zarbon didn’t make the list. He’s in the Honorable Mentions here.
Just like Toriyama, they forgot best transformation Launch
RIP Launch’s transformation
F
Who's Launch?
(sry as a Rezero fan, I had to)
(ps Rem is best girl)
Oh fuck this is such a good take
@@tensho7336 exactly :(
They brought this up in the Podshow Talkcast.
‘The Big Gete Star allowed him to cheat death, how could that be?’
Lani, quoting like the 4th most annoying like in Xenoverse
Only 4th? I’m curious what your top 3 are?
@@sailorfoxhound1528 IT IS OVER YET!
HEY! IT’S ME GOKU!
Great Ape Nappa “WhAt’S tHaT?”
List idea-Top 12 Items/machines in Dragon ball (Senzu beans, scouters, power pole, time machine, flying nimbus, "androids" with unlimited energy, capsules, room of spirit and time, the dragon balls etc.)
You mad genius
Never thought of that good idea
Nice
That would be cool but I’m still hoping about top 12 Dragon Ball arcs
@@joeferri3491 not enough arcs for that
"I sure wish Top had been the main antagonist of that arc."
THANK YOU!
Agreed
The tournament of power as an acronym is just TOP, man.
Weird too considering Jiren was initially going to be at the exhibition instead of Toppo, wearing the big mysterious cloak and all.
I know many people celebrate Christmas today with family moreso than tomorrow, so Merry Christmas everyone! Hopefully 2021 is a better year for us all.
Likewise to you :-)
@@ShadowKamehameha32 Thank you.
Hopefully 2021 makes the PP a bit bigger this time. 2020 was supposed to be the year the PP size had grown. Too bad.
Southern Transformation Kindergarten
"A prestigious academy at which children learn how to shapeshift. Oolong and Puar both attended the academy, but Oolong was kicked out for stealing his teacher's panties".
SHAPESHIFTING ACADEMY Z-ENCYCLOPEDIA SUMMARY IN DRAGON BALL Z: KAKAROT
Obviously number 1 is DBZ Abridged transformation from a small fan project to becoming the giant phenomenon it is today
"It changed Bulma's character entirely"
You mean her "carrot-ter"
And in Vegeta’s case: *”carrot-her”*
Get out
“WHAT THE FUCK HE CAN TURN INTO A TREE!?”
classic
Yu yu hakusho had some weird transforms man...
"Go full Tite Kubo on this shit."
As a huge Bleach fan, that was both painful, acute, and funny as hell.
As someone who's not a fan, can you explain that remark. LOL
@@dnmstarsi It's been a hot minute, what was the context of that? Or can you timestamp it? I might know what you're taking about, but I'm not sure lol
@@CherryBomb_Games That quote you mentioned about Bleach's creator. I did not get that.
@@dnmstarsi I understand that, but to explain it I need the context of the joke they were making. I'll see if I can find it.
@@CherryBomb_Games k
"We poll'd the people and *they* were wrong"
Hate to say it, but your Vegeta is showing
We did it, lads. Monster Carrot was finally the elephant in the room.
So the moral of the story is:
JANEMBA HAS A SWORD
A valuable life lesson indeed.
i actually really would love a "top character design" list, since Toriyama seems to pull inspiration from damn near everything
Is nobody gonna talk about baseball yamcha as a transformation since he puts on the uniform and it temporarily transforms him into a useful character in super if only for a short time XD
Yamcha used to be cool...then Z/Kai happened...
Let's be honest: Majin Vegeta is Vegeta having a mid-life crisis
Or existential!
As mentioned in their Tenkaichi 3, (if) they do Buu Saga, Lani will push for Majin Vegita to have an existential crisis.
"I went to a barbecue with Krillan, AND I LIKED IT"
@TheTuga Saiyan thats what the M stands for dude
Is vegeta on the rag.
@@matthew1995king that would be a Tien line.
Let's go evil will dabura, literally just give a new aura
yeah after Buu killed him he became all goofy, i like to think that's a mental break from being The Demon King yet got rekt by a plump pink powerhouse.
Honestly I’d love to see top 12 deaths, go all spoiler heavy.
clearly Krillin will be number one since his death marks a lot of important events.
@@TheUltimateRare which one?
@@blue-eyeswhitekirbo2543 Both.
Oh gosh, that's a great idea.
I think a good list for next year would be: Top 12 Anime Music Pieces, since as you've mentioned in this list and last years, or the year before, that music can often make a scene, a-la Gohan's transformation to SSJ2 and the Goku-Jakie Chun fight
Piccolo's themes too.
They would never be able to actually use the music in their videos because of youtube copyright bullshit.
"Goku narratively has no reason to fight Frieza/it'd be better without Goku" still makes zero sense. Frieza impaled Krillin, nearly crushed Gohan's skull and then point blank tried to atomize him, tortured the hell out of Piccolo and would have invalidated *everything* they fought for if he had succeeded, and *did* torture Vegeta to death. I don't see why Goku not being destined to fight Frieza doesn't change how important it is *to* fight Frieza. You'd think "he's trying to murder my son and friends, and plans to fuck up my home since we just had to stop his plan to fix our stuff" is enough reason for someone to have a need to battle.
I think they meant that Vegeta had more reason to kill Freeza on a narrative level. He lost everything because of him and has been his slave for a large part of his life. The prince killing Freeza would arguably have been more satisfying, but I very much disagree that Goku vs Freeza has no weight behind it. It's a clash of ideologies, where Goku believes he can always be stronger, while Freeza believes none can be stronger than himself. Goku is kindhearted and forgiving, while Freeza is cruel and ruthless. Their complete contrast exentuates these traits and pushes them both to the limit. It's awesome! I just wish Vegeta could AT LEAST kill Freeza in the movie.
Number one is candy vegito
LMAO
What?
@@specimen057 when vegito is transformed into candy by majin buu
@@rummyrumrum and he kicks ass as candy
That’s more “Majin Buu’s Technique” than “Vegito’s Transformation”
Honorable mention: Bulma's transformation that gives her a scouter
BUT WHERE DID IT COME FROM KAISER?!
COME WHERE DID IT?!
Lani mentioning Ultimate Gohan right before they discussed Majin Vegeta and then them forgetting to address it later made me sad, but was really emblematic of Ultimate Gohan's treatment within the series as a whole.
“Oh god damnit, we forgot Ultimate Gohan.” 😂 😂 😂
Damn, Super Saiyan isn't even an honourable mention...
Well, number 1 should be obvious by now.
@@arashi86 Ginyu Frog
@@arashi86 💞Universe 2 Magical Girl Transformation Sequence 💞
You have to mean the dudes from universe 2 who transform into the magical girls
@@Snooze.. THIS
51:23 kirrans reaction to forgetting ultimate Gohan is absolutely amazing
“Whatever happened to Launch?”
"what about launch?"
"what *about* launch?"
I love how, as the GT defender of the group here, even Kirran is literally "Super 17 didn't happen". 🤣
I’m so glad this is in a podcast type format, I love hearing these dudes talk.
Holy shit I never thought of Cooler’s base form like a power ranger mask that can move its lips and now I can’t unsee it.
Agreed. I had to pause the video to laugh at that. It's such a perfect analogy.
Super Saiyan Rage Future Trunks: I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!
Zamasu: What are you talking about? It’s July!!!
@@marinerman DONT JULY TO ME ITS SNOWING
@@RickachuCXVI zamasu: I BURNED YOUR PLANET OVER YOU MOOK
@@doggosho3044 wha? Ohhhhh....
@@RickachuCXVI Vegeta: aw damnit!
Majin Vegeta was such an important transformation, because it put right in our face the contrast in character of where Vegeta started, and where he was now.
For next year can we get Top 12 Arcs in Dragon Ball
Edit: "I hope someone picks up that phone, because I F***ING CALLED IT!"
- Cooler
That's essentially the villains list.
@@RetroIsaac not really
@@RetroIsaac Not every arc's quality depends on the villian and/or antagonist. For example, the Tournament of Power. Most people I know really enjoyed the arc. But as we all know, Jiren is a garage character with a Dollar Store version of Sasuke's Backstory and with little to no personality.
@@stephenolsantos2981 All I'm saiyan is that if they do that list, it'll most likely line up with the villains list. Hell most of the arcs are named after the villains. Saiyan saga, Android saga, Cell Saga, Buu saga. Also, tournament of power sucked.
@@RetroIsaac 1. You have a valid point
2. I see what you did there
The other nice thing about Zarbon was he primed you for the fact that some aliens can transform, and hey one of our main characters is an Alien!
Clearly the number one transformation is going to be Launch's sneeze transformation
How could it be anything else?
Cooler: The Big Ghetti Star enabled me to cheat DB Cember, how could this be!!!
The Big Ghetto Star ain’t no ones fool
Was trying to think of western shows that had transformations and then I immediately felt stupid for not instantly thinking of frikin transformers. Like my mind actually went to Mumm-Ra from thundercats before it thought of transformers.
Megatron in Beast Wars feels the most like full-on transformation, like Cell. He went from a T-rex, to a robotic T-rex, to a dragon over the course of the show.
@blisswonder
Transformers aside, there's Mumm-Ra, He-man and She-Ra, a part of me wants to count The Hulk since he had a cartoon in the 60s and another in the 90s.
EDIT:Oh yeah and the Ninja Turtles has transformations in like season 7 or so of the 87 cartoon. I'm not sure what caused it, but after arriving on an alien planet, the TMNT would take on transform temporarily into these bulky spiky shelled forms.
@@anueutsuho7425
If I recall correctly Megatron's initial "transmetal"(yes this is what it was called) transformation was caused by the explosion of Unicron's corpse and the second one was the result of him taking a lava bath are a reaction caused by coming in contact with his ancestor's spark.
That said, I can see why you'd compare his transformation to Cell's. :p
@@DemonicRemption Alien Moon Cannon exploding for the first, but yeah.
Robots were doing transformations since the very get go, but lifeforms doing transformations seemingly wasnt a thing before Dragon Ball.
TFS TY for posting this. I'm feeling really damn down rn and while this didnt fix it. It made one hour more bearable. Seriously THANK YOU! Not just for this but for all the content over the years. It really means a ton
It's a technique... that transforms you. Techniques and transformations don't need to be mutually exclusive.
My thoughts exactly!
Little known fact: the M on Majin Vegeta's forehead stands for mid-life crisis.
This is literally just a Talkcast Podshow episode
Still honorable mentions
@@doggosho3044 I'm not complaining as the Talkcast Podshow is usually what I listen to while working early morning shifts. But the energy feels less of a DBCember list and more in line with their podcast.
@@Midnight-Starfish eh probably because we can't see their faces, Thanks 2020
I prefer this energy by far, they don't need the scripted stuff, it just sounds fake
The snake way lady transforming in a giant snake! That was cool
Another idea for next year: top 12 mentor student relationships
All of them involving Goku.
@@penismightier9278 not really necessarily. I'd our future gohan and trunks, trunks vegeta, whis vegeta etc
Schemmel has said it himself about Zeno Goku Black. All he was told was that it was evil Goku. Then when they got more info on Black, Schemmel was able to tweak the voice a little to have it more fit the character.
The minute blue was brought up i tought
"Ok, its time to have *the talk*"
moral of the story: Blue sucks. not earned. made golden Freeza less cool
that's it.
Regarding Ultimate Gohan: I like the idea. I like that, after the series became all about transformations and additions, Gohan gets the ability to use his full power without transforming. I like the fact that his Super Saiyan power has been incorporated into his base form is signposted by Ultimate Gohan's appearance (his eyes are sharper and fully outlined like a Super Saiyan, but he still has black hair and black eyes). However, the power-up is unearned, it's wasted by the narrative, and I *really* don't like that modern Dragon Ball treats it like a transformation that Gohan can power up to and down from. So overall, it's mid.
Super Saiyan Blue? Kinda neat concept, boring-ass design, completely wasted by the narrative. If I said it once, I've said it a thousand times: Super Saiyan God should've just been *THE* form for Dragon Ball Super. If Blue had to exist, Goku And Vegeta shouldn't have gotten it until the Tournament of Power, after we the audience have had time to get used to God.
Agreed on Ultimate Gohan and SSB. The original Super Saiyan God is better in almost every concievable way possible, no idea why they even bothered creating Blue. Red is so much more striking and really sells the power of god ki.
SSB *sometimes* looks great. It doesn't look powerful or striking, because blue is a subdued and calming color. I also hate how its aura often makes their skin look so *yellow.* It rarely looks great or visually impactful. It's not a unique form in almost any meaningful way. They should have just used original SSG.
Now, if Blue had at least looked like Vegeta's Blue Evolution from the start, then I'd actually give it a pass based on visuals alone, cuz damn Blue Evolution looks great. It actually looks like a continuation of SSG! SSB is ultimately just...so superfluous.
Yea, Blue was a huge letdown. Didn't deserve a place on the list, glad it didn't.
Based on how it was initially presented, I had assumed it to be a refinement on Goku using Super Saiyan with God power from Battle of Gods, with God ultimately being the stronger form...but no...we got something way worse...
Honestly? Blue was a great concept: After assimilate the power of the Super Saiyan God in his body, they could channel it into a Super Saiyan Form and give born to Blue, but yeah... The way they obtained (or didn't obtained) was pretty lackluster...
But I have to say is my favorite transformation so far thanks to what the manga did with it. It is strong, fast and powerful but it loses energy very quickly, making it an ace in the hole when need it (unlike the anime).
That weak point made the battles with the God Forms so much interesting with things like transformation switching, going from Super Saiyan God to Blue for an attack, or the way Goku and Vegeta perfected the transformation by not letting it lose the energy and store it inside their bodies. And even then, the amount of power that the form generates damage their bodies. It's like the Kaio-Ken in the regard that is a huge big risk, big reward ability!
One of the coolest things about Super Saiyan Rosé to me is the fact that Black's ki blades are made from his compressed Super Saiyan Rosé aura. That concept is just really awesome and makes me wonder what ki blades forged out of other forms' auras would look like.
Honestly hearing them talk about stuff that happens in the BU arc just makes me miss DBZA I know they’re done but a part of me still wants to see what a DBZA Bu saga would look like
Here's how Turles could work- have the misfit minions come in for combos and stuff like the ginyu force does!
When it comes to Super Saiyan Royal Blue, I always understood it as Vegeta finding new depths of power for the first time out of Selflessness and his Pride instead of just rage. When he's transforming, you see him flashing back to the promises he's made. I thought it was great motivation for a transformation, and a good character moment, even if it doesn't look the best.
“No one‘s going to be mad if you choose to live the life of the family man.”
Except Masako apparently.
1:09:40 - What I like about super saiyan rose is that it plays with the whole god ki thing a little bit. Up until that point we'd been told "oh Goku has god ki now" but it doesn't really mean very much other than it's more powerful ki. But with rose it introduces this idea that even though Goku has reached some sort of godhood, there is still an inherent difference between Goku who achieved godhood and creatures who are naturally gods. And I like that little bit of complexity and nuance added to it. I just wish they would have expanded on that, because I love lore.
If you don't use Kid Buu because it's his original form then you also can't use Frieza's 4th form since that is technically Frieza's true form.
Funnily enough, when they described Ultimate Gohan's look, it made me realize that it resembles Ultra Instinct somewhat (minus the aura and eyes). Basically the general theme of the change in appearance being minor, and more of a focus on "unlocked ability".
I think the best way to explain Gohan losing his "Ultimate" form is that he grew so lax and unused to fighting that he basically forgot how to draw it out - that or his body couldn't handle it. It's also why they made a point in the anime that he struggled to go Super Saiyan against Ginyu-Toma. It's also possible it was a mental/psychological thing where he believed he no longer had it in him to naturally raise his power high enough to surpass Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2, so he went with those instead initially because he lost that confidence in his own potential. It's why Piccolo was able to coax it out of Gohan because he pushed Gohan to remember what kind of potential he really has. IIRC Gohan was partially scared of tapping fully into it because he knew his pride/ego when getting super powerful ended up ruining his initial chance to kill Cell and then later Super Buu, and he was afraid that would happen again if he tapped into his full potential once more.
That's the best way to explain it at least. As for Blue, I assume they learned the fundamentals of it when they were in Whis's pocket dimension. In there, they learned that the trick to controlling their god ki was to not let any ki leak out of them. From that they could then transform into Super Saiyan while utilizing their god ki which is what Super Saiyan Blue essentially is - and it's because of this perfected ki control that Goku was able to use Kaioken with it in the anime. So one could argue they never were shown unlocking it because it wasn't a new form per se, they just had to learn how to attain perfect ki control when using the god ki they inherently absorbed/retained from achieving Super Saiyan God. After that, all they had to do was then go Super Saiyan. It's also why they can't go Super Saiyan 2+ in it (yet) because those forms revolved around maximizing one's power at the cost of leaking ki. So once they figured out that key component to utilizing god ki, they were able to apply it to boosting Super Saiyan with their god ki. And Blue eats up significantly more stamina due to needing to maintain that constant ki control so that's why they still use their regular Super Saiyan forms when they feel like they don't need to go all out.
Here’s the thing, no one else but the Z fighters raise and lower power levels. They all have set levels like freiza and everything else are limiters
yknow that thing you were talking about with the "vegeta should harness the attack side and goku harness the defense side" regarding ultra instinct
looks like he's doin that, neat
yeah. with them going different routes only makes their fusions make sense or God forbid they actually work together being different styles
Using the "Favorite Character Designs" DBcember format, is it possible you guys could do favorite songs?
American music? or Japanese OST?
@@tigerfang2099 Could possibly be both
I’m going to refer to myself as a ‘Weaboomer’ from now on.
OK weaboomer
The manga's treatment of Blue is way better than the anime's, I feel, where it has an actual downside of being a huuuuuge stamina drain. And Goku and Vegeta have to eventually push past that. It also allows SS God to stick around a bit longer and be relevant, and even give a reason for Vegeta to make use of it. But overall I don't really like Blue cause of its visuals. The blue color is fine, but I don't like that both their hair and eyes turn blue. I wish their eyes were a different color, like maybe the grey that SS Rose gets.
I agree completely! Personally I wish their eyes had gone golden, like reversing the usual SSJ colours
yeah they make god ki out to be perfect in everyway and mortals can just master it without training..
My problem with the whole Gohan thing in Super: Gohan doesn’t learn from not training in the years leading up to Buu. Gohan is shown still being Great Saiyaman at the end of Z so he in some capacity wants to make use of his powers. I get if he doesn’t train ALL the time, but I feel he would have at least put in enough so that if anything were to happen, Gohan at least isn’t utterly weak.
Even after meeting Beerus, Gohan doesn’t really think that maybe he should get his power back up in case things happen, then Resurrection F happens. When the movie happens, Gohan has made this mistake for the THIRD time.
I don’t mind Gohan getting curbstomped in Resurrection F. I actually think Toriyama purposely did so, judging from how he redesigned Gohan to have a lot less muscle mass and simple, non-fighter hair. When I saw Freeza assault Gohan, I thought the scene was meant to emphasize Gohan feeling like he hasn’t lived up to his potential.
BUT, TORIYAMA DOES N O T H I N G WITH IT!! He had the PERFECT setup for a character arc for Gohan that starts from the Universe 6 Arc to the Universe Survival Arc, showing Gohan’s comeback story as he tries to be stronger for himself AND his growing family!
Have Gohan fight in the Universe 6 tournament!! I would personally make it so Gohan is technically the weakest fighter (his power would be a little behind Piccolo) but make him the SMARTEST fighter!! Let Gohan use that big brain of his!!
Do more with Gohan and Trunks in the Goku Black Arc!! Not anything major or fighting-wise, but some more character work between the two! Future Trunks and Gohan have such a unique relationship given the circumstances of their impact on each other’s childhoods and it could have been an amazing stepping stone towards Gohan’s character development!!
Do more with Gohan in the Universe Survival Arc!! That arc generally painted Gohan in a good light, but why make him the leader if he’s not going to do anything!! ALSO, let Gohan and Freeza have a rematch before the start of the tournament! It would be an amazing way to show just how far Gohan has come since his humiliating defeat at the hands of Freeza 60 episodes prior!!
@@lemonboyswag honestly, super could have been so much better
also gohan can go super saiyan again cause his potential needs training to stay peaked. it's like work out. if you don't do it, you gotta earn it back again.
Just to make a quick remark re: Goku Black's voice, I've been told that Masako Nozawa based her performance on her Super Saiyan 4 voice, which was level, neutral, and vaguely menacing, without any of Goku's usual cheerful optimism. I also heard that the voice direction for Xenoverse 2 was kind of bad, and the English actors were often told to just imitate the Japanese. So it's entirely possible that Sean Schemmel was told "Just use your SSJ4 voice for Black" - except his interpretation of SSJ4 was guttural and raspy, which works when you're doing "semi-feral monkey man" but less so with "fallen god in Goku's body". Not laying blame or applying critique, just remarking.
Whis teaches Vegeta to achieve SSJ God: "Everyone has a tiny spark of the divine inside of themselves, the key is to find it, and draw it out. No amount physical exercise will allow you to get it; you'll have to find calmness, and dig into the deepest recesses of your being." Since Goku just got the power from the ritual, it is Vegeta achieving SSJG like this, that gives him the greater ki control; and as such the prerequisites to achieve SSJB, which requires great ki control, first.
Golden Frieza knocks Goku aside, and goes to town on Vegeta; repeating the beat down he give him back on Namek. Holds Vegeta in his tail around his neck, "So here we are again, Vegeta; no matter what hair dye you put in your hair, you're still nothing but a monkey."
Vegeta flashes back to Namek, where he gave up, and the time he gave up afterward; just before he achieved SSJ, right after the defeat of Cell and declaring he'd never fight again, letting Babidi take control, blowing himself up against Buu, believing Goku is just plain better than he is against Buu, groveling before Bills, being glad Goku is the one fight; and every single time when his own inner self wouldn't let him stay down and achieve more power than he ever thought possible.
Frieza punches, Vegeta grabs Frieza's hand, and almost serenely says, "I am Vegeta, prince of all Saiyans, do you really think this fight was going to be this easy? That I was just going to give up?" Vegeta's red SSJG eyes turn SSJ teal, "The might of the gods themselves is mine, this is only beginning." Frieza jerks in shock at the eyes, above him we see him standing across Trunks, and his thought now overlapping with his thought then, the same thought: "They have the same eyes."
Vegeta's eyes grow more blue, blue electric discharges appear in his SSJG aura, his red hair flashes blue for a moment; Freeza starts desperately attacking and trying to break Vegeta's neck; but it doesn't work, apart from a grimace the transformation completes; Divine Super Saiya-jin Vegeta (such a better name than SSGSSJ, or SSJB) is fully formed, and proceeds to defeat Frieza.
You could even have Goku ask Vegeta what he did; and him saying I went SSJ, and when Goku tries and fails, asks Vegeta to teach him, and he just says, "Knowing you, you'll figure it out on your own."
And after Goku goes, "Come one, that's not fair," the human Z-fighters go, "Hey, we weren't at King Kai's long enough to be taught the Kaio-ken, how about you finish that?"
And Piccolo goes, "And that Instant Transmission is pretty useful; teaching us that would only be fair, right?"
Goku scratches the back of his head embarrassed; presto, reasons why the humans and Piccolo can catch up to boot.
Why is this so good? Maybe with each punch Frieza lands, it's one of those flashes. Also, I love how Frieza's "They have the same eyes" is also a callback to when he first saw Goku. First he saw the father in the son, now he sees the son in the father.
well written my friend
Editors be like "Rejected for not making Vegeta useless"
I can't tell if they are right beside each other or doing this over a webcam
Online chat, but they all record their own dialogue so it can be pieced together and cleaned up to remove tinny from mics and dead air from latency.
That's their secret...they're always on webcams.
Really surprised Zarbon wasn't on the list. His transformation had a lot of weight. He not only stopped Vegeta's post-Saiyan arc winning streak, he absolutely demolished Vegeta, then said something (that wasn't in the original dub I saw) that made Vegeta even more scared- Frieza can also transform, and what chance dies he have against the boss if he can't even scratch the minion in his true form. Zarbon was a real yardstick and showed what the Zenkai boost could really do when they have their rematch, in which Vegeta pulverized monster Zarbon and even made him beg for his life before finishing him off. That boost doesn't quite have the same impact when Vegeta got it after Racoome and later Krillen nearly killed him.
Zarbon's legacy is still felt today given that in the Super manga Vegeta fought a member of Zarbon's race who turned into an alligator monster as well, but by this point Vegeta had tusseled with gods, so a transforming alligator man was small potatoes and taken out with minimal difficulty.
Roshis Buff form shouldve made the list, i hope it at least gets an honorable mention
it's not really a transformation though.
Kirin: I hate that song [Ultimate Battle]
Internet: *So you've chosen death*
number 1: grant transforming from sitting on the floor not being allowed to speak, to his handsome and intelligent form
Final Form Cooler is unironically my favorite movie design. He looks so amazing.
Listening to you guys talk about blue as I type this, I agree with lani right off. It’s unearned and there’s no explanation to its existence. They didn’t say how it was stronger or what it did differently than 3. I love the entrance of it. That like breaking down blue energy panning up to the hair. I absolutely love that. But they hardly talked about what was different than super saiyan and there was no showing of then actually achieving it or why they went for it.
The inner giddy child in me, takes control when talking about transformations and stuff like that. Everything is cool when it's a transformation, I don't care about story shit or anything else.
Fusion characters HAVE transformations. They’re characters, not forms unto themselves.
You could argue two characters transform into that new character
@@Napstablooky yeah it is a transform. a fusion transform.
I love Royal Blue Vegeta, for all the wrong reasons. The sparkles, the soft, dewey eyes. I call it "Bishie Vegeta"
Who ever said those were wrong reasons?
@@Amaruuk "Reasons the designers did not intend." then.
THANK YOU. I love this version of Blue. Like, come on, the show doesn't do the best job of explaining it, and if they'd just labled it as SSB2 it'd be far better, but you gotta love the leadin to that form. Like, the man is desperately trying to keep a promise to a friend, something he hadn't done all that much AT ALL up until this point, and yeah it's framed through his pride but that's just Vegeta, everything is filtered through that hubris. And the use of Limit Break x Survivor (Instrumental C) for that sequence is just gorgeous.
Kaiser is just a meany poopyhead.
(he's not I met him he's a total sweetie I'm sorry Scott differences of opinion happen I love you all the same)
@@ArthurN9 I'm glad Vegeta got his own form, but it really should have been something not ridiculous looking.
i love it cause it's cool. i don't care if it looks goofy lol i never judged forms on just looks before.
Royal blue was a fucking LEGENDARY moment. Idgaf what anyone thinks. Vegeta is finally getting to move away from being gokus little sidekick. He tried to do ultra instinct and realized it just wasnt his vibe. So he said FUCK that I'm gonna own this shit and do it my way. He fights for a reason and he wants to remember those reasons with every punch he throws, rather than thoughtless fighting. because he draws strength from it. As seen with him SURPASSING SSJ3 GOKU in his ssj form when beerus slapped bulma. Let him just have one fucking thing please. Stop hating on my boi who LITERALLY PUNCHED THROUGH TOPPOS HAKAI. He fought jiren to the end. Respect
Imagine getting jumped by the Z warriors and you hear goku yell "feed him the Catboi pill" smh
Your pfp makes this even funnier
Captain Ginyu becoming a frog is easily number 1 lol
Buu Arc Vegeta is best Vegeta, change my mind. He has a showdown with Goku, he overcomes Babidi’s control through his saiyan pride alone, admits that he loves his family, he hugs his son for the first time, he SACRIFICES HIMSELF FOR OTHERS, and he admits that Goku is (at the time at least) his better.