Im a lore fanatic, Tolkien ..40k , forgotten realms , you lore masters are so vital without you, things would collapse into nonsense and chaos, thank you and keep it up
Good evening, Mr. Sierra! I hope you are well! I had a question earlier tonight about the Hobbits and Grima Wormtongue, and Google led me to Quora. Fortunately, I found an answer that you'd made roughly 30 minutes earlier, and it answered all my questions! Thank you very much!
Just discovered you the other day and I’m already a fan. I’ve always wanted to know as much as possible about Tolkien and his amazing universe. Thanks for putting the time into this, it’s a lot of fun to listen to.
Loved your video! When it comes to the question of the "crowns of the seven kings", in Biblical theology the number seven is highly significant. Typically it denotes the idea of fullness or completion or wholeness or totality. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Tolkien would be aware of the way in which the number seven is used in scripture and so it makes me wonder if that's what he's doing in the instance mentioned in the video. If this is the case, the idea that Saruman is conveying is that Gandalf is actually seeking total control of middle earth for himself having the keys of Barad-dur, defeating Sauron, the rods of the five wizards, defeating Saruman, and ultimate control of "all of the kingdoms", denoted by the phrase "crowns of seven kings".
I've always seen Gandalf's "bet" as a religious act. He said that "Bilbo wan meant to have the ring in which case you are also meant to have it" and "there are other powers at work here besides those of evil". That leads me to think that he saw Iluvatar's hand in these seemingly small and per chance events and that he trusted Iluvatar so much that he was ready to risk everything on this seemingly totally irrational plan
Tolkien dealt with and was totally obsessed with the specifics of all sorts of numbers! Nature of Middle Earth provides enough information to base Noldor population from. We know Finwe’s 8th generation Noldor were about 9,000. There is enough math data of elven birth rates and time scales to get a decent estimate of the number of Noldor when they arrived in Belariand. To John’s point, it’s correct that Tolkien didn’t liked to be boxed in by numbers but he was in fact totally obsessed with numbers.
The fact that he included numbers hardly is an obsession. You have to remember that the 144 elf thing is part legend and part a counting-tale, the first three elves are even named "first" "second" and "third" in primitive Quendian. The story was likely elvish legend made to teach the young how to count. You can come up with an estimate of how many Noldor there were, but hardly how many went to Beleriand, as they didn't all go.
@@John-Sierra I think it’s fair to meet in the middle. The word “Obsessed” might be a bit strong but it’s way more than just “including” numbers. “Obsession with numbers” was a phrase used by Hostetter in an interview… Not just the elf to human years ratio, he spent an unusual amount of time working out the math to population size / growth rate. It’s fair to also say I wish he had spent his later time cleaning up the Fall of Gondolin, or finishing the tale of Aldarion but he wanted to crunch numbers and have to respect him for it. Numbers & math backing world building is apparently more important to Tolkien than any other Sci-fi / Fantasy writer I’ve read. The math behind his calendars also blows my mind.
Another great video. Can you explain the connection between the various phases of the Ainulinale (first theme, second theme, Iluvatar intervenes, etc) and the unfolding history of Arda? The Silmarillion says that elves and men came as part of the third theme, but not much more. Do the various themes and actions by Iluvatar correspond to events in Arda? Time periods? Tasks of the valar? Or something else? What did the braying and repetitive music mean? Or the slow and somber? etc.
Unfortunately there isn't a lot of information specifically on the Ainulindalë other than what we are told in The Silmarillion - likely because the elves did not know much more. The biggest note to take away is that the Ainur were putting their thoughts and wishes into the world - and that Ilúvatar heard all of them - but only Melkor had all of his thoughts put into the world.
Hey. Enjoy the vids. Good to see you picking up subs. I do find it abit odd talking about 10k event when you’re creeping past 1k. Do something for 5k :D
Just found your channel. 😊 I’ve been wondering about something, and would appreciate the insight of someone knowledgeable on Tolkien. It’s clear in reading, or watching Peter Jackson’s films, that the precise set of all of the choices, and strengths and weaknesses, of characters in LOTR is crucial to the outcome of the ring’s eventual destruction and Sauron’s defeat that Eru Ilúvatar desires. This is even more clear in the books-for example the “coincidence” of reasons that bring those who will end up being participants in the council of Elrond to Rivendell, or Gollum slipping and falling to his and the ring’s destruction as he celebrates. Some have attributed this to an essentially Calvinistic philosophy of Tolkien, with Eru predestining events to this outcome. However, this seems highly unlikely, as Tolkien was a devout Catholic. (The irony of attributing Calvinism to a Catholic is palpable. 😜) Rather, LOTR seems to me to smack of Molinism: the idea that God is so sovereign in His “middle knowledge”-specifically, His knowledge of what His creatures with libertarian free will would choose to do under any set of circumstances (that is, His knowledge of all “counterfactuals of creaturely freedom”)-that the world He (Eru/God) chose to actualize is the one in which His free creatures’ free choices and all the accompanying “happenstance” would lead to His desired outcome. Since Molinism originated with Luis de Molina, a Jesuit, this certainly seems like something that might’ve appealed to Tolkien. But I don’t know enough about Tolkien or his philosophy to know if this really could be true, and I was hoping maybe you could help. Thank you!
He absolutely subscirbed to the Molonistic view - Ilúvatar knows how it will turn out, without this discounting free will. I would somewhat be bold as to say the story of Eä and Arda is reminiscent of the book of Job, but retold in a much better fashion. Rather than foisting suffering on one person to prove a point to Satan/Melkor, he creates a world with free will, just to show that Melkor is ultimately powerless without him, that evil will lose in the end. We see the themes that evill services good a few times - Melkor casts down the light, so the stars are born, he creates bitter cold, and snow is born. Every single thing that Melkor does, whether directly or through agents like Sauron or through petty evils that he created by pouring his power and will into the world, in the end, becomes beautiful. This does not rob the characters of their agency, even the Valar were shown only a portion of the entirety of the world, the end was veiled from them.
@@John-Sierra Thank you! It’s good to have confirmation that I wasn’t perhaps reading too much into Tolkien’s philosophy after all. The comparison with the Book of Job is interesting! It’s amazing the long shadow Job casts, really. When I was watching The Dark Knight, for example, I realized that Nolen (or whoever was the driving creative influence in the script) modeled the Batman/Joker dynamic on the Job/Satan dynamic in the Book of Job.
I hope John weighs in on this but first off, I don’t believe it’s the Valar’s place to intervene so forcefully in the music they have already sung. Secondly, the Valar did not abandon it, they sent the Istari, Eagles (Manwe) , Ents (Yavanna), Melian (Lorien) and Ulmo is always in all the uncorrupted waters in Middle Earth that touch the sea. One last point: the last time the Valar (rather the host of the Valar who were mostly just Maiar) intervened, there was a terrible cataclysm that sunk a continent, the first times they intervened directly with Melkor before the elves, the world was ripped to shreds a few times and painstakingly rebuilt. And when Eru intervened, an island nation was sunk while the flat world was made round and the undying lands physically removed from it. So, besides sinking middle earth into the sea and rip apart the land to uproot the foundations of Barad-Dur to pull Sauron from the pits he would hide in, there is not much they can or should do besides what they did do. Short answer: not part of God’s song. Humans are tasked to heal Melkor’s marring of Arda.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well! I always found it amusing that Gandalf would not speak the black speech in bag end, but was fine with spitting it out in Rivendell. A meme I saw once had Frodo ask him why he wouldn't speak it in bag end and he said something along the lines of "because the look on Elrond's face when I do it later will be priceless!"
I'm working on it, in the next episode, I have it set very low, if it still comes out loud, I may have to not have the music playing at all during the recording and mix it in myself in post, which is time consuming but will afford me more control over it.
Im a lore fanatic, Tolkien ..40k , forgotten realms , you lore masters are so vital without you, things would collapse into nonsense and chaos, thank you and keep it up
Good evening, Mr. Sierra! I hope you are well!
I had a question earlier tonight about the Hobbits and Grima Wormtongue, and Google led me to Quora. Fortunately, I found an answer that you'd made roughly 30 minutes earlier, and it answered all my questions!
Thank you very much!
U used my question as a thumbnail ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Just discovered you the other day and I’m already a fan. I’ve always wanted to know as much as possible about Tolkien and his amazing universe. Thanks for putting the time into this, it’s a lot of fun to listen to.
Awesome, thank you!
Loved your video! When it comes to the question of the "crowns of the seven kings", in Biblical theology the number seven is highly significant. Typically it denotes the idea of fullness or completion or wholeness or totality. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Tolkien would be aware of the way in which the number seven is used in scripture and so it makes me wonder if that's what he's doing in the instance mentioned in the video. If this is the case, the idea that Saruman is conveying is that Gandalf is actually seeking total control of middle earth for himself having the keys of Barad-dur, defeating Sauron, the rods of the five wizards, defeating Saruman, and ultimate control of "all of the kingdoms", denoted by the phrase "crowns of seven kings".
Nice
I've always seen Gandalf's "bet" as a religious act.
He said that "Bilbo wan meant to have the ring in which case you are also meant to have it" and "there are other powers at work here besides those of evil".
That leads me to think that he saw Iluvatar's hand in these seemingly small and per chance events and that he trusted Iluvatar so much that he was ready to risk everything on this seemingly totally irrational plan
Tolkien dealt with and was totally obsessed with the specifics of all sorts of numbers! Nature of Middle Earth provides enough information to base Noldor population from. We know Finwe’s 8th generation Noldor were about 9,000. There is enough math data of elven birth rates and time scales to get a decent estimate of the number of Noldor when they arrived in Belariand. To John’s point, it’s correct that Tolkien didn’t liked to be boxed in by numbers but he was in fact totally obsessed with numbers.
The fact that he included numbers hardly is an obsession. You have to remember that the 144 elf thing is part legend and part a counting-tale, the first three elves are even named "first" "second" and "third" in primitive Quendian. The story was likely elvish legend made to teach the young how to count. You can come up with an estimate of how many Noldor there were, but hardly how many went to Beleriand, as they didn't all go.
@@John-Sierra I think it’s fair to meet in the middle. The word “Obsessed” might be a bit strong but it’s way more than just “including” numbers. “Obsession with numbers” was a phrase used by Hostetter in an interview… Not just the elf to human years ratio, he spent an unusual amount of time working out the math to population size / growth rate. It’s fair to also say I wish he had spent his later time cleaning up the Fall of Gondolin, or finishing the tale of Aldarion but he wanted to crunch numbers and have to respect him for it. Numbers & math backing world building is apparently more important to Tolkien than any other Sci-fi / Fantasy writer I’ve read. The math behind his calendars also blows my mind.
Another great video.
Can you explain the connection between the various phases of the Ainulinale (first theme, second theme, Iluvatar intervenes, etc) and the unfolding history of Arda? The Silmarillion says that elves and men came as part of the third theme, but not much more. Do the various themes and actions by Iluvatar correspond to events in Arda? Time periods? Tasks of the valar? Or something else? What did the braying and repetitive music mean? Or the slow and somber? etc.
Unfortunately there isn't a lot of information specifically on the Ainulindalë other than what we are told in The Silmarillion - likely because the elves did not know much more. The biggest note to take away is that the Ainur were putting their thoughts and wishes into the world - and that Ilúvatar heard all of them - but only Melkor had all of his thoughts put into the world.
@@John-Sierra Sorry, I don't get that last part... why only Melkor? Thx.
Would it be possible to lower the music volume in your videos? 😊
Aye. It goes too hot. Music in the bg is fine. But currently it's all I can hear.
Hey. Enjoy the vids. Good to see you picking up subs. I do find it abit odd talking about 10k event when you’re creeping past 1k. Do something for 5k :D
I wanted to set the goal pretty far out.
Just found your channel. 😊
I’ve been wondering about something, and would appreciate the insight of someone knowledgeable on Tolkien. It’s clear in reading, or watching Peter Jackson’s films, that the precise set of all of the choices, and strengths and weaknesses, of characters in LOTR is crucial to the outcome of the ring’s eventual destruction and Sauron’s defeat that Eru Ilúvatar desires. This is even more clear in the books-for example the “coincidence” of reasons that bring those who will end up being participants in the council of Elrond to Rivendell, or Gollum slipping and falling to his and the ring’s destruction as he celebrates. Some have attributed this to an essentially Calvinistic philosophy of Tolkien, with Eru predestining events to this outcome. However, this seems highly unlikely, as Tolkien was a devout Catholic. (The irony of attributing Calvinism to a Catholic is palpable. 😜) Rather, LOTR seems to me to smack of Molinism: the idea that God is so sovereign in His “middle knowledge”-specifically, His knowledge of what His creatures with libertarian free will would choose to do under any set of circumstances (that is, His knowledge of all “counterfactuals of creaturely freedom”)-that the world He (Eru/God) chose to actualize is the one in which His free creatures’ free choices and all the accompanying “happenstance” would lead to His desired outcome. Since Molinism originated with Luis de Molina, a Jesuit, this certainly seems like something that might’ve appealed to Tolkien. But I don’t know enough about Tolkien or his philosophy to know if this really could be true, and I was hoping maybe you could help.
Thank you!
He absolutely subscirbed to the Molonistic view - Ilúvatar knows how it will turn out, without this discounting free will. I would somewhat be bold as to say the story of Eä and Arda is reminiscent of the book of Job, but retold in a much better fashion. Rather than foisting suffering on one person to prove a point to Satan/Melkor, he creates a world with free will, just to show that Melkor is ultimately powerless without him, that evil will lose in the end. We see the themes that evill services good a few times - Melkor casts down the light, so the stars are born, he creates bitter cold, and snow is born. Every single thing that Melkor does, whether directly or through agents like Sauron or through petty evils that he created by pouring his power and will into the world, in the end, becomes beautiful. This does not rob the characters of their agency, even the Valar were shown only a portion of the entirety of the world, the end was veiled from them.
@@John-Sierra Thank you! It’s good to have confirmation that I wasn’t perhaps reading too much into Tolkien’s philosophy after all.
The comparison with the Book of Job is interesting! It’s amazing the long shadow Job casts, really. When I was watching The Dark Knight, for example, I realized that Nolen (or whoever was the driving creative influence in the script) modeled the Batman/Joker dynamic on the Job/Satan dynamic in the Book of Job.
Will you be doing a Lord Of The Rings reading after you’re done with the Hobbit one? Looking to buckle down and read them and can use an audio guide.
I love the music you use in these videos. Where is it from?
If you look in the description it mentions the two artists, just search them and 10 hour mix, and you'll find the playlist i use.
I have a question please!!! Why did the Valar abandon Middle-Earth to Sauron?
I hope John weighs in on this but first off, I don’t believe it’s the Valar’s place to intervene so forcefully in the music they have already sung. Secondly, the Valar did not abandon it, they sent the Istari, Eagles (Manwe) , Ents (Yavanna), Melian (Lorien) and Ulmo is always in all the uncorrupted waters in Middle Earth that touch the sea. One last point: the last time the Valar (rather the host of the Valar who were mostly just Maiar) intervened, there was a terrible cataclysm that sunk a continent, the first times they intervened directly with Melkor before the elves, the world was ripped to shreds a few times and painstakingly rebuilt. And when Eru intervened, an island nation was sunk while the flat world was made round and the undying lands physically removed from it. So, besides sinking middle earth into the sea and rip apart the land to uproot the foundations of Barad-Dur to pull Sauron from the pits he would hide in, there is not much they can or should do besides what they did do. Short answer: not part of God’s song. Humans are tasked to heal Melkor’s marring of Arda.
You speak the black tongue a little too well.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well! I always found it amusing that Gandalf would not speak the black speech in bag end, but was fine with spitting it out in Rivendell. A meme I saw once had Frodo ask him why he wouldn't speak it in bag end and he said something along the lines of "because the look on Elrond's face when I do it later will be priceless!"
You do NO they are JUST BOOKS???😂😂😂😂
I would expect a comment of this caliber from someone who confuses "know" and "no".
@@John-Sierra still a BOOK...
😂😂😂
Amazing that you figured out what a book is. Object permanence is important.
Music track is *way* too hot my friend. Literally in half. I can't even listen to you.
I'm working on it, in the next episode, I have it set very low, if it still comes out loud, I may have to not have the music playing at all during the recording and mix it in myself in post, which is time consuming but will afford me more control over it.